Swine Flu Made In The USA?

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NuclearWinter
This Investigative Reporter claims that the Swine flu was made in the USA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNS0Q-uxycA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.infowars.com%2Fswine-flu-made-in-usa%2F&feature=player_embedded

NuclearWinter

NuclearWinter

jaden101
Except, of course, that swine flu has existed for far longer than the ability to manipulate viruses has been around.

NuclearWinter
Originally posted by jaden101
Except, of course, that swine flu has existed for far longer than the ability to manipulate viruses has been around.

Why are you trying to steal the same arguement that some people try to use to say that AIDS was not man-made? Aren't you a little more clever than that? Don't you have your own arguement?

Besides...you are talking about an entirely different strain of the Swine Flu that existed before. The current strain that we are dealing with is entirely new and different. And it is rapidly changing and evolving according to scientists.

jaden101
Originally posted by NuclearWinter







Besides...you are talking about an entirely different strain of the Swine Flu that existed before. The current strain that we are dealing with is entirely new and different. And it is rapidly changing and evolving according to scientists.

I don't need to use a complext argument to debunk this scaremongering nonsense.

No i'm not talking about an entirely different strain. It's the exact same strain the broke out in the 1940's....Hence the reason that scientists are noticing that many of the people who they thought would be vulnerable...i.e the older members of society are actually immune because they got the virus when they were young.

It's H1N1. It's extremely common and extremely mild as flu viruses go. You have to be very VERY unlucky to die from it.

The only part of your post I agree with is that people are profiting from the outbreak...But that's capitalism for you. Hardly a conspiracy.

NuclearWinter
It is not the exact same strain. Prove it. It is constantly evolving, therefore it could not possibly be the exact same strain from the 1940's. If it changes even in the slightest to adapt to infect Human Beings, than it is not the same exact strain. Because it has morphed. One that only infects pigs and one that can now infect Human Beings is not the same strain at all.

NuclearWinter
This is from wikipedia:

Swine influenza (also called swine flu, hog flu, and pig flu) is an infection of a host animal by any one of several specific types of microscopic organisms called "swine influenza virus". In 2009 the media labeled as "swine flu" flu caused by 2009's new strain of swine-origin A/H1N1 pandemic virus just as it had earlier dubbed as "avian flu" flu caused by the recent Asian-linage HPAI (High Pathogenic Avian Influenza) H5N1 strain that is still endemic in many wild bird species in several countries.

A swine influenza virus (SIV) is any strain of the influenza family of viruses that is usually hosted by (is endemic in) pigs. As of 2009, the known SIV strains are the influenza C virus and the subtypes of the influenza A virus known as H1N1, H1N2, H3N1, H3N2, and H2N3. Swine influenza is common in pigs in the United States (particularly in the midwest and occasionally in other states), Mexico, Canada, South America, Europe (including the United Kingdom, Sweden, and Italy), Kenya, and eastern Asia (namely China, Taiwan, and Japan).

The 2009 swine flu outbreak in humans is due to a new strain of influenza A virus subtype H1N1 that contains genes closely related to swine influenza. The origin of this new strain is unknown. However, the World Organization for Animal Health (OIE) reports that this strain has not been isolated in pigs. This strain can be transmitted from human to human, and causes the normal symptoms of influenza.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_flu

jaden101
There's a reason you don't get away with using wikipedia as a reliable source when citing medical information.

It's not a new virus. It's an old virus...it may have some slight mutations that result in different methods of infection but it acts on the body in the same way and that's how many people are immune from it. Because it's antigen action sites are the same and so the immune system antibodies can act on it.

I do, however, find it ironic that you accuse me of not using my own argument then immediately follow that up with a cut n paste job from wikipedia.

NuclearWinter
Originally posted by jaden101
There's a reason you don't get away with using wikipedia as a reliable source when citing medical information.

It's not a new virus. It's an old virus...it may have some slight mutations that result in different methods of infection but it acts on the body in the same way and that's how many people are immune from it. Because it's antigen action sites are the same and so the immune system antibodies can act on it.

I do, however, find it ironic that you accuse me of not using my own argument then immediately follow that up with a cut n paste job from wikipedia.

Because no offense but Wikipedia used information that was more accurate than both of your arguments in this case. Perhaps not in every case. But in this case it did.

On the bottom of the article it uses 84 professional sources to back up it's claims.

It is also interesting to note that the virus is different in how it infects Pigs than how it infects Humans as well. And that the treatment for both is different.

jaden101
Originally posted by NuclearWinter
Because no offense but Wikipedia used information that was more accurate than both of your arguements in this case. Perhaps not in every case. But in this case it did.

What's not accurate about my argument? Are you trying to say that people aren't immune to it because of previous exposure to the SAME VIRUS.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by NuclearWinter
Because no offense but Wikipedia used information that was more accurate than both of your arguements in this case. Perhaps not in every case. But in this case it did.

The specific section you picked has no citations.

NuclearWinter
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The specific section you picked has no citations.

That's probably because they knew that citations weren't necessary for that section. Because it is a commonly known fact.

NuclearWinter
Originally posted by jaden101
What's not accurate about my argument? Are you trying to say that people aren't immune to it because of previous exposure to the SAME VIRUS.

No I'm stating that what was not accurate about your argument was that you said that the current strain of influenza was not a new strain of influenza.

I was countering your argument with the fact that The 2009 swine flu outbreak in humans is due to a new strain of influenza A virus subtype H1N1 that contains genes that are only closely related to swine influenza but that are not of the swine influenza itself.

NuclearWinter
Influenza A virus subtype H1N1, also known as A(H1N1), is a subtype of influenzavirus A and the most common cause of influenza (flu) in humans. Some strains of H1N1 are endemic in humans and cause a small fraction of all influenza-like illness and a large fraction of all seasonal influenza. H1N1 strains caused roughly half of all human flu infections in 2006. Other strains of H1N1 are endemic in pigs (swine influenza) and in birds (avian influenza).

In June 2009, WHO declared that flu due to a new strain of swine-origin H1N1 was responsible for the 2009 flu pandemic. This strain is commonly called "swine flu".

Thats the World Health Organization declaring that it was a new strain of swine H1N1 by the way, not Wikipedia.

jaden101
And your argument was that it was "made in America" and designed to cause mass murder...Flying in the face of the fact that it's an extremely mild virus of which the death rate is currently sitting at much less than 10% world wide and less than 1% in developed countries of people who have been diagnosed with the virus.

I think mine is considerably closer to the truth about the virus that yours.

NuclearWinter
Originally posted by jaden101
And your argument was that it was "made in America" and designed to cause mass murder...Flying in the face of the fact that it's an extremely mild virus of which the death rate is currently sitting at much less than 10% world wide and less than 1% in developed countries of people who have been diagnosed with the virus.

I think mine is considerably closer to the truth about the virus that yours.

First of all, I never claimed that the virus was made in America or manufcatured by man. I posted two investigations that are currently underway regarding whether it was or not. One from an investigative reporter and another from an Australian Journalist.

Did you not watch the video? Or read anything I posted?

I did not start either one of those investigations. So I am not a part of them.

jaden101
Originally posted by NuclearWinter
First of all, I never claimed that the virus was made in America or manufcatured by man. I posted two investigations that are currently underway regarding whether it was or not. One from an investigative reporter and another from an Australian Journalist.

Did you not watch the video? Or read anything I posted?

I did not start either one of those investigations. So I am not a part of them.

So my point that you're the one who doesn't post his own argument stands then?...Despite you accusing me of doing just that

NuclearWinter
Originally posted by jaden101
So my point that you're the one who doesn't post his own argument stands then?...Despite you accusing me of doing just that

Well that doesn't fly too well either because I haven't yet stated which way I am leaning. It could very well be that I agree with both of them. Or it could be the opposite. I'm not playing games here I'm just being realistic.

jaden101
OK...So you're merely posting the information rather than adopting a stance?...I can live with that.

NuclearWinter
Originally posted by jaden101
OK...So you're merely posting the information rather than adopting a stance?...I can live with that.

Basically yes.

NuclearWinter
CDC Computer Models: One Million Infected with H1N1 in U.S.


Thomas H. Maugh II
The Los Angeles Times
June 26, 2009


At least 1 million Americans have now contracted the novel H1N1 influenza, according to mathematical models prepared by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, while data from the field indicates that the virus is continuing to spread even though the normal flu season is over and that an increasing proportion of victims are being hospitalized.

Meanwhile, the virus is continuing its rapid spread through the Southern Hemisphere, infecting increasing numbers of people and at least one pig.

Nearly 28,000 laboratory-confirmed U.S. cases of the virus, also known as swine flu, have been reported to the CDC, almost half of the more than 56,000 cases globally reported to the World Health Organization.

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-swineflu26-2009jun26,0,7526407.story

Evil Dead
and yet not even a fraction of the people who die every year from regular ol' Flu have died from Swine Flu.

this topic is kind of boring and pointless.

If any country geneticly engineered this virus to commit mass murder, I wouldn't want to live in that country. Isn't the point of creating biological weapons to make them stronger, more potent and more dangerous/deadly than a naturally occurring virus that millions upon millions of people get every year and results in nothing more serious than 2 or 3 days in bed, eating chicken soup and watching movies?

perhaps this is the same country that artificially created the common cold as a biological weapon.....hmmmmmm.

Mr Parker
thsi thread gopt made over at that conspiracy site you referred me to winter LONG before you made it here.Lol big grin

edisonik
Jaden all the diseases that affect humanity are man made, the bio weapon programs have been going on for centuries.
All these diseases are developed in the Lab. But guess the trick regarding the Virus Wars, guess what kills you!, not the Virus but the Vaccine.

Wake up boys anf girls.

jaden101
Labs centuries ago huh?...Yeah...clearly you're an intellect to be reckoned with.

Mr Parker
Originally posted by edisonik
Jaden all the diseases that affect humanity are man made, the bio weapon programs have been going on for centuries.
All these diseases are developed in the Lab. But guess the trick regarding the Virus Wars, guess what kills you!, not the Virus but the Vaccine.

Wake up boys anf girls.

exactly.well said.you said something thats logical for a change.

jaden101
Originally posted by Mr Parker
exactly.well said.you said something thats logical for a change.

What's logical about saying all viruses are man made despite the fact that viruses and bacterian have been around for nigh on 2 billion years before people?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by jaden101
What's logical about saying all viruses are man made despite the fact that viruses and bacterian have been around for nigh on 2 billion years before people?

EVERYTHING!!! OPEN YOU EYES SHEEPLE!!!!!!

Magee
Originally posted by edisonik
Jaden all the diseases that affect humanity are man made, the bio weapon programs have been going on for centuries.
All these diseases are developed in the Lab. Possibly the greatest thing ever written on this forum, it's very hard to distinguish trolls from conspiracy nuts but regardless of which category you fall in to I got a good laugh from that.

jgiant
All i know is im not taking the vaccine this fall. I have a feeling they are going to make it look like you have to take it for the good of your country, but its all a beta test to see how the people react to the idea of forced inoculations. Also this is just something to mull over, we'll see how it all goes down when the time comes... http://www.infowars.com/canadian-doctor-h1n1-vaccination-a-eugenics-weapon-for-mass-extermination/

jaden101
Swine flu

Total cases so far: 100,934
Deaths so far: 522
% of cases resulting in death: 0.517

no of deaths of people who have been vaccinated: 0

% of deaths resulting from vaccination: 0

Quite the concrete argument of "the vaccine is what's killing people" the conspiracy idiots have.

Magee
I'm sure no vaccine even exists yet...

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by jaden101
Swine flu

Total cases so far: 100,934
Deaths so far: 522
% of cases resulting in death: 0.517

no of deaths of people who have been vaccinated: 0

% of deaths resulting from vaccination: 0

Quite the concrete argument of "the vaccine is what's killing people" the conspiracy idiots have.

Independent source?

jaden101
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Independent source?

Wolfram Alpha for the figures on infected and dead...The fact that there's no vaccine available yet for the vaccine figures.

jgiant
Originally posted by jaden101
Wolfram Alpha for the figures on infected and dead...The fact that there's no vaccine available yet for the vaccine figures.
Well im sure you have heard of the swine flu vaccine in 1976, its not a enormous amount of people that died (25) or got Guilliain-Barre syndrome (>500), but enough to recall it. I don't think the gov. is trying to kill us with this vaccine now, but i do believe that one day they might use it to poison the masses. Watch to see if the government is forcing vaccinations on americans. If they do then i beileve you guys should be a little wary of getting the shot. Not because of the dangers, but because the government will then think that they can easily control us through fear, bypassing our God given rights.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by jgiant
Well im sure you have heard of the swine flu vaccine in 1976, its not a enormous amount of people that died (25) or got Guilliain-Barre syndrome (>500), but enough to recall it. I don't think the gov. is trying to kill us with this vaccine now, but i do believe that one day they might use it to poison the masses. Watch to see if the government is forcing vaccinations on americans. If they do then i beileve you guys should be a little wary of getting the shot. Not because of the dangers, but because the government will then think that they can easily control us through fear, bypassing our God given rights.

Even if only 1% of people took it that's about 3 million.

A danger rate of under 0.01667% is totally acceptable if your trying to help people and utterly useless for hurting them.

jgiant
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Even if only 1% of people took it that's about 3 million.

A danger rate of under 0.01667% is totally acceptable if your trying to help people and utterly useless for hurting them. I see you guys are only focusing on the death count, when i really don't think the death count is what is to worry about, rather people thinking they have to get this vaccine and that if they don't they are breaking the law. Even if its not that extreme, it is planting the seed for more raping of your God givin rights.

jaden101
Originally posted by jgiant
Well im sure you have heard of the swine flu vaccine in 1976, its not a enormous amount of people that died (25) or got Guilliain-Barre syndrome (>500), but enough to recall it. I don't think the gov. is trying to kill us with this vaccine now, but i do believe that one day they might use it to poison the masses. Watch to see if the government is forcing vaccinations on americans. If they do then i beileve you guys should be a little wary of getting the shot. Not because of the dangers, but because the government will then think that they can easily control us through fear, bypassing our God given rights.

There's literally a 1 in a million chance of suffering from GBS from a vaccine shot and out of that million there's a 1 in 20 chance of dying. Hardly an effective way to "poison the masses" is it?

Far easier to just do it through the water supply. (oh no that's a whole other conspiracy isn't it)

jgiant
Originally posted by jaden101
There's literally a 1 in a million chance of suffering from GBS from a vaccine shot and out of that million there's a 1 in 20 chance of dying. Hardly an effective way to "poison the masses" is it?

Far easier to just do it through the water supply. (oh no that's a whole other conspiracy isn't it) Or the food supply, there is so much sh!t in our food that is slowly killing us. Mostly due to our ignorance of what we should eat thats good for us. But you guys hear of that corn that had infertility drugs in it. "Control the oil you control the nations, control the food and you control the people." you guys know who said that.

jaden101
Originally posted by jgiant
Or the food supply, there is so much sh!t in our food that is slowly killing us. Mostly due to our ignorance of what we should eat thats good for us. But you guys hear of that corn that had infertility drugs in it. "Control the oil you control the nations, control the food and you control the people." you guys know who said that.

The problem of what's in the food isn't what's killing most people. It's the fact that they're a bunch of fat greedy ****s who eat too much of it that's killing them.

Mr Parker
Originally posted by jgiant
I see you guys are only focusing on the death count, when i really don't think the death count is what is to worry about, rather people thinking they have to get this vaccine and that if they don't they are breaking the law. Even if its not that extreme, it is planting the seed for more raping of your God givin rights.

exactly.well said.

jgiant
Originally posted by Mr Parker
exactly.well said. Thanks.
Originally posted by jaden101
The problem of what's in the food isn't what's killing most people. It's the fact that they're a bunch of fat greedy ****s who eat too much of it that's killing them. Yea i mentioned that. But i don't think greed is the appropriate word in some cases. Ignorance and media branwashing are big contributers to why people think its ok to put sh!t in their bodies all their lives.

meowmaster
I glad i am in the Swedan

meow

Paola
edit

jgiant
Originally posted by jaden101
Swine flu

Total cases so far: 100,934
Deaths so far: 522
% of cases resulting in death: 0.517

no of deaths of people who have been vaccinated: 0

% of deaths resulting from vaccination: 0

Quite the concrete argument of "the vaccine is what's killing people" the conspiracy idiots have. Also have u factored in that of the supposed 300 or so deaths in america due to the swine flu, very few of them were from the actual virus itself. "The 302 deaths are associated with H1N1, but in few cases deaths resulted directly from the flu or the virus. And many people or probably the majority found with virus when or after they died often had been suffering some underlying disease or health condition." http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Non-food/Disease/ 260720090833_cdc_302_americans_with_h1n1_have_died
_so_far.html Most of the time the people die of their poor health before the flu. Did you also know of the 12,000 guinie pig children they are going to test this vaccine on.http://newsok.com/state-kids-to-get-shot-at-swine-flu-vaccine/article/3387609 Lets just wait and see thats all.

Mr Parker
Originally posted by jgiant
Thanks.
Yea i mentioned that. But i don't think greed is the appropriate word in some cases. Ignorance and media branwashing are big contributers to why people think its ok to put sh!t in their bodies all their lives.

no problem,great post there as well.by the way,check my pm I just sent ya.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by jgiant
Also have u factored in that of the supposed 300 or so deaths in america due to the swine flu, very few of them were from the actual virus itself. "The 302 deaths are associated with H1N1, but in few cases deaths resulted directly from the flu or the virus. And many people or probably the majority found with virus when or after they died often had been suffering some underlying disease or health condition." http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Non-food/Disease/ 260720090833_cdc_302_americans_with_h1n1_have_died
_so_far.html Most of the time the people die of their poor health before the flu. Did you also know of the 12,000 guinie pig children they are going to test this vaccine on.http://newsok.com/state-kids-to-get-shot-at-swine-flu-vaccine/article/3387609 Lets just wait and see thats all.

It won't even be available to the masses until months after it's given to priority cases. Terrible method of killing people and plenty of time (along with trials) to buffer out any problems.

jgiant
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It won't even be available to the masses until months after it's given to priority cases. Terrible method of killing people and plenty of time (along with trials) to buffer out any problems. I enjoy how you disect posts and only answer what you think the post means. Apparently my whole point is that the vaccine is suppose to kill a mass amounts of people. Now can you answer me this? When did i ever say that? Whether it will or not is not the case. It could, it could not. I say it won't. Its just to condition us to be submissive to the government. Is it that anyone who thinks the government is slowly destroying the constitution, our God given rights and thinks the gov. has gotten us into war after war for no good fuking reason is a conspiracy theorist. These should be apparent to every American who has their head screwed on right. You guys make yourself look dumb when you pussy foot around the real issue, which is the government is slowly destroying America. What do you guys think of the Federal Reserve?

jgiant
Sorry for the double post. But would you guys be willing to believe that the swine flu was created in a lab just to get money into the pharmacudical industry. That could also be a possiblity. Or is that a conspiracy theory too. In all honesty I don't know, and you guys don't know.

jaden101
Originally posted by jgiant
Sorry for the double post. But would you guys be willing to believe that the swine flu was created in a lab just to get money into the pharmacudical industry. That could also be a possiblity. Or is that a conspiracy theory too. In all honesty I don't know, and you guys don't know.

I'm willing to accept that pharmaceutical companies are exploiting the situation by grossly overstating the virus's potential danger in order to sell more Tamiflu and also to create a demand for a vaccine that some GP's are already stating is completely unneccessary. Unfortunately that's no different from any other commercial enterprise. Creating demand where there is none. This is obviously more unethical given it's about creating a demand by inciting fear of ill health.

As for creating it in the lab? No...The H1N1 virus has been around far longer than our ability to manipulate genes or alter the genetic code of viruses.

As for the other frankly ridiculous idea that the vaccine will kill millions. What utter and complete nonsense. People argue this all the time in relation to AIDS and HIV medication in Africa. Saying that it's killing people...Yes they're right to say it's killing people. What they neglect to mention, though is that it's killing people because the people who are supposed to getting the medication are selling it on illegally because it can get people high. Killing both themselves (because they're not getting the medication they need) and killing the people who are abusing the drugs (because it causes massive complications will non comprimised immune systems.)

jgiant
Originally posted by jaden101
I'm willing to accept that pharmaceutical companies are exploiting the situation by grossly overstating the virus's potential danger in order to sell more Tamiflu and also to create a demand for a vaccine that some GP's are already stating is completely unneccessary. Unfortunately that's no different from any other commercial enterprise. Creating demand where there is none. This is obviously more unethical given it's about creating a demand by inciting fear of ill health.

As for creating it in the lab? No...The H1N1 virus has been around far longer than our ability to manipulate genes or alter the genetic code of viruses.

As for the other frankly ridiculous idea that the vaccine will kill millions. What utter and complete nonsense. People argue this all the time in relation to AIDS and HIV medication in Africa. Saying that it's killing people...Yes they're right to say it's killing people. What they neglect to mention, though is that it's killing people because the people who are supposed to getting the medication are selling it on illegally because it can get people high. Killing both themselves (because they're not getting the medication they need) and killing the people who are abusing the drugs (because it causes massive complications will non comprimised immune systems.) Just because the H1N1 flu has been around since probably before the 1918 spanish flu, doesn't mean that the strain could not be tampered with in a lab. I say lets wait and see. I do know that there is no reason for this pandemonium the media is creating. There is a reason to this and them forcing the vaccination on us. To see what exactly its for, whether $ or more sinister goals...we'll just have to wait and see.

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