GL Hal vs Zoom

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leonidas
can't believe this wasn't done. least not that i could find.

so, anyway, lots of zoom luv lately. can hal and his ring contend with this apparently trans-level speedster??

Ryo 666
No.

illadelph12
Eh. I'd say Hal, while airborne, makes a dome construct around the battlefield below and slowly shrinks it, trapping Zoom within it and eventually crushing him.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Ryo 666
Phasing?

The Scribe
Can Zoom survive in space? evil face

illadelph12
Zoom can't phase through solids due to the nature of his powers. That's the weakness he has that the Flashes can exploit (if you'll remember). Due to not having true super speed he can't vibrate himself to become intangible.

TricksterPriest
Nah, he seems to have adapted a variation of that power somehow. He used it when he fought Bart. He can phase.

leonidas
is the ring/should the ring be capable of tracking zoom?

The Scribe
Originally posted by leonidas
is the ring/should the ring be capable of tracking zoom?

I don't see why not.

Kyle programmed his ring to bring him back even if he was disintegrated.

leonidas
Originally posted by The Scribe
I don't see why not.

Kyle programmed his ring to bring him back even if he was disintegrated.

that's kind of what i thought too . . .

leonidas
on a different note--who (besides flash) has zoom fought 1on1 and defeated? we all know that when a team fights one person, the individuals on the team often don't perform to their fullest abilities. so when someone says zoom seemed to get the best of a GL while that GL fought as part of the league, that does NOT mean that's how the fight would go in a 1on1 situation . . .

so, who else has zoom defeated aside from flash?

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by leonidas
on a different note--who (besides flash) has zoom fought 1on1 and defeated? we all know that when a team fights one person, the individuals on the team often don't perform to their fullest abilities. so when someone says zoom seemed to get the best of a GL while that GL fought as part of the league, that does NOT mean that's how the fight would go in a 1on1 situation . . .

so, who else has zoom defeated aside from flash?

Shit logic.

Mangog's never defeated anyone but Thor on his own, but he'd still tear through Hal.

leonidas
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Shit logic.

Mangog's never defeated anyone but Thor on his own, but he'd still tear through Hal.

laughing out loud

hardly "shit logic". more an observation, actually. one proven time and time again. characters in teams seldom get to show off the full range of their abilities and so are portrayed as 'less' than they are often portrayed in solo situations. so, again, who has zoom defeated 1on1? if no one, that's fine, but if he has defeated someone BESIDES flash 1on1 it would further help to contextually define him.

Starscream M
Originally posted by leonidas
so, again, who has zoom defeated 1on1?

he punched wonder woman really hard....really really hard. no expression

Digi
Yeah, nothing complex (or incorrect) about team-created PIS with a character not using the full extent of their powers. Happens to every team or group that's daft enough to have a gigantic power gap in their members. Thor's best showings, for examples, are all from his own books. His worst, Avengers books. It's also how a lot of villains end up in Trans. i.e. "he can take on Superman, WW, AND Hal...holy crap!" when Supes could probably wreck them in one of his solo books.

There's a lot to be said for legitimately balanced teams in that respect. They never have to job to further the story. Much as I'm not a fan of them personally, the FF are an example of this.

As for this match, I don't know or care. I hate speedsters.

crackers

leonidas
Originally posted by Starscream M
he punched wonder woman really hard....really really hard. no expression

and lost, right?

Raoul
Originally posted by leonidas
and lost, right?

he got distracted by the wonder twins.

leonidas
Originally posted by Digi
Yeah, nothing complex (or incorrect) about team-created PIS with a character not using the full extent of their powers. Happens to every team or group that's daft enough to have a gigantic power gap in their members. There's a lot to be said for legitimately balanced teams in that respect. They never have to job to further the story. Much as I'm not a fan of them personally, the FF are an example of this.

thumb up



me too. unless they can help me win tournaments . . . shifty

Starscream M
Originally posted by leonidas
and lost, right? in one of the biggest displays of PIS...WW kicked some rocks that somehow meant Zoom had only a few feet of area to maneuver around and yeah....horrible writing imo

Digi
Originally posted by leonidas
me too. unless they can help me win tournaments . . . shifty

...which is why I'm always (always) against speed force in tourneys. Besides not liking it, I'm also cognizant enough to know that I don't understand it at all either. Seems like a plot device that inherently ends up contradicting itself eventually.

Though I wasn't in the one that you "speeded" your way to victory. So meh.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Starscream M
in one of the biggest displays of PIS...WW kicked some rocks that somehow meant Zoom had only a few feet of area to maneuver around and yeah....horrible writing imo

Well, he didn't lose.

Zoom removed the lasso without trouble later on.

leonidas
Originally posted by leonidas
is the ring/should the ring be capable of tracking zoom?

confused

Raoul
Hal, but by the slimmest of margins.

Galan007
zoom has already slapped hal around/phased/broke out of his constructs. no reason to think things would be any different here thumb down

zoom ftw.

Stunner2xx
Zoom wins

Enyalus
What Galan said.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Galan007
zoom has already slapped hal around/phased/broke out of his constructs. no reason to think things would be any different here thumb down

zoom ftw.

I'm sure Hal can counter with a giant mallet or a flyswatter or maybe an emerald anvil!

leonidas
so none of you think the ring capable of tracking and holding zoom? given some of hal's feats, i find that hard to believe.

Enyalus
Originally posted by leonidas
so none of you think the ring capable of tracking and holding zoom? given some of hal's feats, i find that hard to believe.
Zoom's vibrated out of Hal's constructs before....

Ryo 666
Originally posted by leonidas
so none of you think the ring capable of tracking and holding zoom? given some of hal's feats, i find that hard to believe.

Who say's Hals fast enough to react to someone who was moving faster than Superman can see?

Slaanesh
hem..i think that Wally > Hal..and Zoom > Wally..so Zoom FTW

Ryo 666
ABC logic but you are correct on who wins this I think.

jrodslam
Hal has already caught Zoom while he was beating on other members of the JLA. He could have defeated him once caught, but he was looking for Sinestro and was questioning him instead of actually trying to beat him.

Ryo 666
Scans?

Raoul
Originally posted by Ryo 666
Scans?

don't have em to hand, but its in the Sinestro Corps Special, the one shot that came out to start the war...

Ryo 666
I'll get them.

jrodslam
http://img16.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t732452_sinestro-corps-special-001-06.jpg http://img16.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t732453_sinestro-corps-special-001-08.jpg http://img16.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t732454_sinestro-corps-special-001-10.jpg

Ryo 666
Thanks.

GL caught him from behind, not to mention Zoom was toying with the heroes again.

Raoul
Originally posted by jrodslam
http://img16.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t732452_sinestro-corps-special-001-06.jpg http://img16.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t732453_sinestro-corps-special-001-08.jpg http://img16.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t732454_sinestro-corps-special-001-10.jpg

thumb up

Ryo 666
I still say Zoom wins.

Raoul
Originally posted by Ryo 666
I still say Zoom wins.

he probably would.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Ryo 666
Thanks.

GL caught him from behind, not to mention Zoom was toying with the heroes again.

Lets you know how fast Hal can be. Caught Zoom from behind, while he was running in circles around WW mind you. Zoom toys with almost everyone, still doesnt take away from they fact that they cant do anything about it.

Ryo 666
Sure Hals fast but unless you got him reacting to anything like how fast Zoom was going in the Flash fight then Hal loses. That catching feat isn't that impressive.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Ryo 666
Sure Hals fast but unless you got him reacting to anything like how fast Zoom was going in the Flash fight then Hal loses. That catching feat isn't that impressive.

That catching feat isnt impressive? There arent many ppl who can do that. Especially while hes already in mid run. Why do i need to i need to post something with Hal reacting to something similar to the speed Zoom was displaying when he fought Wally? Zoom doesnt always move at light speed. He went that fast because hes fighting Flash. If we're using him at peak lvl's, then its only fair we use Hal at peak lvl's to. If thats the case, i definitely dont see Zoom beating Hal. Hed have more of a chance going by average showings.

With this fight, im leaning towards Hal.

Ryo 666
I said it isn't THAT impressive. Not when you compare to how fast Zoom goes other times. He goes as fast as he needs to or feels like going. Which will be faster than Hal can react.

Kris Blaze
As if those scans makes much of a difference...

jrodslam
Originally posted by Ryo 666
I said it isn't THAT impressive. Not when you compare to how fast Zoom goes other times. He goes as fast as he needs to or feels like going. Which will be faster than Hal can react.

I think it is THAT impressive when i cant name 4 people whos actually caught him while running. Yes, Zoom goes as fast as he needs to, however because hes not fighting a speedster, he may operate at normal Zoom lvls, thus giving Hal more of an opportunity to tag him. Also with him not being able to steal speed or vibrate through things, goes moreso in Hals favor.

Ryo 666
Originally posted by jrodslam
I think it is THAT impressive when i cant name 4 people whos actually caught him while running. Yes, Zoom goes as fast as he needs to, however because hes not fighting a speedster, he may operate at normal Zoom lvls, thus giving Hal more of an opportunity to tag him. Also with him not being able to steal speed or vibrate through things, goes moreso in Hals favor. Originally posted by Kris Blaze
As if those scans makes much of a difference...

He's right. One feat of catching a Zoom not paying attention and not' going close to how fast he does doesn't make Hal able to beat him.

Kris Blaze
If Hal had been able to do -anything- to Zoom while he had him, it might've been impressive. That scan makes very little difference for or against and if Hal does win here, which he doesn't, it's because of years and years of consistent portrayl.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
If Hal had been able to do -anything- to Zoom while he had him, it might've been impressive. That scan makes very little difference for or against and if Hal does win here, which he doesn't, it's because of years and years of consistent portrayl.

Are you saying that Hal wouldnt have been able to do anything to him if he wanted to? The scan does make a difference just to show that even with Zoom running at that speed, hed still be able to get caught. Hes not moving to fast to where he cant be touched.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by jrodslam
Are you saying that Hal wouldnt have been able to do anything to him if he wanted to? The scan does make a difference just to show that even with Zoom running at that speed, hed still be able to get caught. Hes not moving to fast to where he cant be touched.

Because Zoom is chillin' out.

You think he's trying to really get 'em? There's a reason why his punches affected Superman and Batman equally. Zoom is just playing around, chillin', check out women and such. He regulates his speed so that he's faster than them, but not too fast. If Zoom moves too fast they won't be able to hear what he's saying.

Hal caught him off guard. When Zoom is running around hitting Wonder Woman then of course Hal can catch him. Hal's ring CAN keep up with people hitting lightspeed and so on. Doesn't mean shit when the fighting actually goes down though. Hal can't keep up with someone who makes Superman look like a statue.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Ryo 666
He's right. One feat of catching a Zoom not paying attention and not' going close to how fast he does doesn't make Hal able to beat him.

That feat is to show hal would be capable to grabbing zoom. Hes speeding around in a circle and just got plucked like it was nothing. Regardless if he was paying attention or not, he was moving at high speeds and hal operated at his speed lvl. Its obvious we see things differently with that scan, so ill leave you to your opinion.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by jrodslam
That feat is to show hal would be capable to grabbing zoom. Hes speeding around in a circle and just got plucked like it was nothing. Regardless if he was paying attention or not, he was moving at high speeds and hal operated at his speed lvl. Its obvious we see things differently with that scan, so ill leave you to your opinion.

Nobody's disputing Hal's ability to react at high speeds.

Clearly, this does not make much of a difference against Zoom.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Because Zoom is chillin' out.

You think he's trying to really get 'em? There's a reason why his punches affected Superman and Batman equally. Zoom is just playing around, chillin', check out women and such. He regulates his speed so that he's faster than them, but not too fast. If Zoom moves too fast they won't be able to hear what he's saying.


I never stated hes really trying to get em. And maybe you can help me out, but what indication do you have that he hit Bats and Supes equally? Cause im sure if he did his supes as equally as he hit bats, Supes probably wouldnt have budged. And if it were the other way around, Bats would probably have a broken jaw. Unless we're just gonna call cis on the entire confrontation? If he moves to fast, they wont hear what hes saying? Its a comic. There have been many times flash has moved faster that the human eye could even follow and even from feet away, he could be heard.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Hal caught him off guard. When Zoom is running around hitting Wonder Woman then of course Hal can catch him. Hal's ring CAN keep up with people hitting lightspeed and so on. Doesn't mean shit when the fighting actually goes down though. Hal can't keep up with someone who makes Superman look like a statue.

Thanks for helping me prove the point ive been trying to make from my initial post. Hal is going to be able to keep up with Zoom and even catch him. Regardless if hes paying attention, he was still moving at very high speeds and Hal caught him. You totally contradict yourself in that paragraph. Hal can keep up with ppl hitting at lightspeed and so on, yet he cant keep up with someone who makes Superman look like a statue?

Ryo 666
Did you ever pay attention to his post?

He said Hal moves lightspeed.

Zoom clearly goes faster than that.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Ryo 666
Did you ever pay attention to his post?

He said Hal moves lightspeed.

Zoom clearly goes faster than that.

Not sure if you were reading. Reread both, then edit your post.

I assume "lightspeed and so on", which was stated by Blaze btw, means faster than lightspeed as well? Thats what was said, so...erm Also, i know Zoom moves faster than lightspeed, but the likely hood of him going faster than lightspeed while fighting Hal is minimal, but IF he did, hal would be able to keep up.

jrodslam
Unlike if this were a Hal vs Wally, Barry, etc fight, Zoom cant steal speed. Nor can he vibrate through objects like the other flash's can.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by jrodslam
I never stated hes really trying to get em. And maybe you can help me out, but what indication do you have that he hit Bats and Supes equally? Cause im sure if he did his supes as equally as he hit bats, Supes probably wouldnt have budged. And if it were the other way around, Bats would probably have a broken jaw. Unless we're just gonna call cis on the entire confrontation? If he moves to fast, they wont hear what hes saying? Its a comic. There have been many times flash has moved faster that the human eye could even follow and even from feet away, he could be heard.?

The damage they receieved was equal, that's what I meant when I say that he hit them equally. If he had hit Batman with the same force he hit Superman, then Batman would be the batstain. My point was that Zoom was in control of the situation. He has never, ever tried to kill a hero. Zoom's attitude has been pretty well portrayed in Flash, Wonder Woman and the FC rogue comics.

The Flashes very often communicate at speeds which most people are unable to keep up with. Most recent incidents are the latest fight with Vandal Savage or Barry/Wally's chats in Final Crisis.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Thanks for helping me prove the point ive been trying to make from my initial post. Hal is going to be able to keep up with Zoom and even catch him. Regardless if hes paying attention, he was still moving at very high speeds and Hal caught him. You totally contradict yourself in that paragraph. Hal can keep up with ppl hitting at lightspeed and so on, yet he cant keep up with someone who makes Superman look like a statue?

You just don't seem to understand how fast Zoom can move. He can go so fast that Wally can't even see him. Superman was standing still in the air while Zoom and Wally were fighting across the world. Wally, Superman and most Green Lanterns can hit lightspeed relatively easy. That is far from the upper speed limit her. The flashes and anti-flashses go far beyond that.

In Zoom's case, he can go much, much, much beyond that.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Unlike if this were a Hal vs Wally, Barry, etc fight, Zoom cant steal speed. Nor can he vibrate through objects like the other flash's can.

Zoom has learned how to vibrate, plus he has his zoom-blasts and the sonic booms. Like we saw Inertia become capable of, he can attack people from different places in time. This is how Zoom was beaten after all.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Also, i know Zoom moves faster than lightspeed, but the likely hood of him going faster than lightspeed while fighting Hal is minimal, but IF he did, hal would be able to keep up.

I disagree with both of these. Why wouldn't he go faster than ligthspeed? If Zoom wants Hal dead, then Hal wouldn't be able to do anything....

Galan007
Originally posted by Ryo 666
Thanks.

GL caught him from behind, not to mention Zoom was toying with the heroes again. which is the key point behind hal 'catching' him in those scans. thumb up

jrodslam
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
The damage they receieved was equal, that's what I meant when I say that he hit them equally. If he had hit Batman with the same force he hit Superman, then Batman would be the batstain. My point was that Zoom was in control of the situation. He has never, ever tried to kill a hero. Zoom's attitude has been pretty well portrayed in Flash, Wonder Woman and the FC rogue comics.

The Flashes very often communicate at speeds which most people are unable to keep up with. Most recent incidents are the latest fight with Vandal Savage or Barry/Wally's chats in Final Crisis.

Its established that Zoom operates at faster speeds depending on who hes gonna fight. As far as him trying to kill heroes, JSA #8 Zoom was going to kill damage and flash #223 he was going to kill Bart. And although Zoom doesnt usually try to kill heroes, he'll kill someone close to them, like Wallys unborn kids.

More often than not, the Flash's are able to communicate with ppl who dont move at their speeds just fine.


Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You just don't seem to understand how fast Zoom can move. He can go so fast that Wally can't even see him. Superman was standing still in the air while Zoom and Wally were fighting across the world. Wally, Superman and most Green Lanterns can hit lightspeed relatively easy. That is far from the upper speed limit her. The flashes and anti-flashses go far beyond that.

In Zoom's case, he can go much, much, much beyond that.

Tell me. How fast can Zoom move? Wally once absorbed speed just so he can try to go lightspeed instantly and he barely kept up. In a later issue, he was still able to keep up with Zoom and he didnt have to absorb speed from anyone. I remember the fight youre talking about where they were fighting and all other heroes were still. Since its established lanterns can hit lightspeed easily and far from their upper speed limit, why are we going back and forth? Not all flashes nor anti flashes go faster than that. I know Jay cant. Not can prof from what i can remember unless thats changed.

You state that Zoom can go much, much, much beyond that, but where was this stated? And again, it would be highly doubtful that he fights at that speed while fighting Hal, but if he does, again, hal would still be able to keep up.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Zoom has learned how to vibrate, plus he has his zoom-blasts and the sonic booms. Like we saw Inertia become capable of, he can attack people from different places in time. This is how Zoom was beaten after all.

Since when can he do that? He can vibrate to shake loose of a hold, but he cant vibrate through as in become immaterial.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I disagree with both of these. Why wouldn't he go faster than ligthspeed? If Zoom wants Hal dead, then Hal wouldn't be able to do anything....

The question is why would he go faster than lightspeed? If Zoom wanted Hal dead, how do you suppose hed do that? Id assure you hal would have a easier time killing zoom than the other way around.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by jrodslam
Its established that Zoom operates at faster speeds depending on who hes gonna fight. As far as him trying to kill heroes, JSA #8 Zoom was going to kill damage and flash #223 he was going to kill Bart. And although Zoom doesnt usually try to kill heroes, he'll kill someone close to them, like Wallys unborn kids.

He wasn't trying to kill Damage, he was trying to make him better. Which he did, Damage experienced some proper character development for the first time again since like...zero hour? Zoom DID kill Wally's kids several times actually, and without assistance it would've continued, but he would never have killed wally.

The rest are good arguments, I will have to try and retort them when I get home!

Ryo 666
Originally posted by jrodslam
Not sure if you were reading. Reread both, then edit your post.

I assume "lightspeed and so on", which was stated by Blaze btw, means faster than lightspeed as well? Thats what was said, so...erm Also, i know Zoom moves faster than lightspeed, but the likely hood of him going faster than lightspeed while fighting Hal is minimal, but IF he did, hal would be able to keep up.

I see what I did there lol.

Either way Zoom has shown to be far more powerful than Superman, Flash Wonder Woman etc. Hal catching an unprepared Zoom means nothing.

Zoom can make Superman seem like a statue hes moving so fast. If Zooms goal was to beat GL without trying to teach him or talk to him then Zoom would beat him quickly and efficiently because he wouldn't be worried about prolonging the fight and letting Hal learn something. BUT if he was trying to talk before beating he would keep himself at levels than Hal can catch up with, but that's not going to happen on the forum.

Can Hal keep up with a Zoom that makes Superman seem a statue? No? Yes?

Raoul
Originally posted by Ryo 666
BUT if he was trying to talk before beating he would keep himself at levels than Hal can catch up with, but that's not going to happen on the forum.

actually it can. stick out tongue

just doesn't always have to happen.

Ryo 666
Concerning Zoom is an odd character, in forum fights is Zoom going to talk and fight or just fight?

jalek moye
Hal will win sometimes do to Zoom talking to him

Ryo 666
But when Zoom does talk he is always in control. Say Hal got in a surprise attack, its far more likely Zoom will avoid it or something.

Raoul
Originally posted by Ryo 666
Concerning Zoom is an odd character, in forum fights is Zoom going to talk and fight or just fight?

for the most part, you can assume he's going to try and "make him better" but he still has the intelligence to not limit himself to it.

if he can't make hal better, and hal hasn't ko'd him, zoom can go all out.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
He wasn't trying to kill Damage, he was trying to make him better. Which he did, Damage experienced some proper character development for the first time again since like...zero hour? Zoom DID kill Wally's kids several times actually, and without assistance it would've continued, but he would never have killed wally.

The rest are good arguments, I will have to try and retort them when I get home!

He initially tried to teach damage a lesson dating back to infinite crisis, but he didnt learn the lesson zoom was trying to teach him, so he was gonna kill him.

http://img16.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t733051_justice-society-of-america-008-27.jpg http://img16.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t733054_justice-society-of-america-008-28.jpg

After killing wallys unborns, wally did become a better hero in a way. thats why zoom never killed him. He was however going to kill bart.

Ryo 666
The Zoom KOes Hal.

leonidas
Originally posted by jrodslam
He initially tried to teach damage a lesson dating back to infinite crisis, but he didnt learn the lesson zoom was trying to teach him, so he was gonna kill him.

http://img16.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t733051_justice-society-of-america-008-27.jpg http://img16.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t733054_justice-society-of-america-008-28.jpg

After killing wallys unborns, wally did become a better hero in a way. thats why zoom never killed him. He was however going to kill bart.

did zoom want to get hit by that piece of wood too?

zoom seems to me to be one of those characters who made a HUGE splash in their first appearance but hasn't done anything since to equal it. happens a lot in first appearances. i'm not saying disregard those initial feats, just that all the other ones can't be discounted either. and if you use high-end-only feats for zoom, we better use high-end-only feats for hal as well.

btw--what other issues of flash has zoom battled wally in aside from that first arc in 199 and 200?

Ryo 666
The thing is he hasnt needed to use his high feats again because he hasn't been challenged enough to use those feats. Easily beating on Superman is high enough I should think.

leonidas
Originally posted by Ryo 666
The thing is he hasnt needed to use his high feats again because he hasn't been challenged enough to use those feats. Easily beating on Superman is high enough I should think.

why couldn't he dodge the wood if he can go as fast as he wants which i've heard a number of times now?

Prep-Man
What about past showing with Hal? He was able to catch a Wally and a Barry Allen with no problem. check out some of these feats.

http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=132452

Ryo 666
Originally posted by leonidas
why couldn't he dodge the wood if he can go as fast as he wants which i've heard a number of times now?
Everyone has low feats but we are given a reason why Zoom doesn't also use high feats.

Wouldn't be able to give lessons if he always used his top speed would he?

He goes fast enough for the situation at hand.

Ryo 666
Originally posted by Prep-Man
What about past showing with Hal? He was able to catch a Wally and a Barry Allen with no problem. check out some of these feats.

http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=132452

But Flash wasn't going normal speed either when Zoom faced him, when he was, Zoom was destroying if I remember.

jrodslam
Originally posted by leonidas
did zoom want to get hit by that piece of wood too?

zoom seems to me to be one of those characters who made a HUGE splash in their first appearance but hasn't done anything since to equal it. happens a lot in first appearances. i'm not saying disregard those initial feats, just that all the other ones can't be discounted either. and if you use high-end-only feats for zoom, we better use high-end-only feats for hal as well.

btw--what other issues of flash has zoom battled wally in aside from that first arc in 199 and 200?

Lol. No. It caught him off guard too. You can tell by the look in his eyes.

I agree with what youre saying about how characters are first portrayed in comics. And i also agree that if we're gonna use Zooms high end feats, we need to use Hals.

They battles again in 224 225.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Ryo 666
But Flash wasn't going normal speed either when Zoom faced him, when he was Zoom was destroying if I remember.

Hal has traveled FASTER than the speed of light before. Not to mention his ring can latch onto things in multiple time lines. Check out some of the feats.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Ryo 666
Everyone has low feats but we are given a reason why Zoom doesn't also use high feats.

Wouldn't be able to give lessons if he always used his top speed would he?

He goes fast enough for the situation at hand.

Whenever Zoom gives his "lessons", hes always still moving faster than the person hes trying to teach. Why go lvl 10 if the person hes trying to tech is only lvl 6? Zoom would just have to operate on lvl 7 or 8 to be successful.

Ryo 666
Originally posted by jrodslam
Lol. No. It caught him off guard too. You can tell by the look in his eyes.

I agree with what youre saying about how characters are first portrayed in comics. And i also agree that if we're gonna use Zooms high end feats, we need to use Hals.

They battles again in 224 225. A high end feat would also be easily outclassing Superman and Wonder Woman, would it not?

Im gonna go over some Zoom appearances again.

Ryo 666
Originally posted by jrodslam
Whenever Zoom gives his "lessons", hes always still moving faster than the person hes trying to teach. Why go lvl 10 if the person hes trying to tech is only lvl 6? Zoom would just have to operate on lvl 7 or 8 to be successful.

Yeah... confused

jrodslam
Originally posted by Ryo 666
A high end feat would also be easily outclassing Superman and Wonder Woman, would it not?

Yea it would.

Ryo 666
Well then a high end feat was done easily as we saw. I mean he was toying with them.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by jrodslam
He initially tried to teach damage a lesson dating back to infinite crisis, but he didnt learn the lesson zoom was trying to teach him, so he was gonna kill him.

http://img16.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t733051_justice-society-of-america-008-27.jpg http://img16.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t733054_justice-society-of-america-008-28.jpg

After killing wallys unborns, wally did become a better hero in a way. thats why zoom never killed him. He was however going to kill bart.

Wow....Not a very good showing for Zoom. He can take punches from Superman and Flash's best, but a steel bar knocks him out cold. Regardless, seeing the steel bar come and then not being able to dodge it, what the hell!

Originally posted by Prep-Man
What about past showing with Hal? He was able to catch a Wally and a Barry Allen with no problem. check out some of these feats.

http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=132452

Which feat is supposed to make Hal capable of taking out Zoom?

Allankles
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Wow....Not a very good showing for Zoom. He can take punches from Superman and Flash's best, but a steel bar knocks him out cold.

I don't know why people think that Zoom is super durable. Taking a punch from WW doesn't mean he's got top tier durability.

A bullet could kill him (no sharp point durability). And according to Zoom himself, running into walls without vibrating could kill him too.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Allankles
I don't know why people think that Zoom is super durable. Taking a punch from WW doesn't mean he's got top tier durability.

A bullet could kill him (no sharp point durability). And according to Zoom himself, running into walls without vibrating could kill him too.

Taking a punch from Superman would mean that you have some sort of superhuman durability. So would taking one of the Flash'es crazy window-shattering punches.

Allankles
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Taking a punch from Superman would mean that you have some sort of superhuman durability. So would taking one of the Flash'es crazy window-shattering punches.

I didn't say his durability isn't superhuman. I said running into walls and regular bullets can kill him, i.e. his durability is nothing to write home about.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Allankles
I didn't say his durability isn't superhuman. I said running into walls and regular bullets can kill him, i.e. his durability is nothing to write home about.

But how can he have durability enough to withstand some of Flash's strongest punch and regardless of PIS, a steel bar from someone with superstrength at superspeed, is bound to do a shitload more damage than a bullet.

Allankles
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
But how can he have durability enough to withstand some of Flash's strongest punch and regardless of PIS, a steel bar from someone with superstrength at superspeed, is bound to do a shitload more damage than a bullet.

The same way the Flashes can take his punches and get killed by bullets or a falling washing machine. Zoom has super human durability but so do a lot of other guys who can get killed by bullets and by speeding into walls.

When it comes to speedsters you just have to have to be willing to suspend your disbelief when they brawl.

leonidas
here's a couple scans from the second meeting between zoom and wally. here wally confirms that he has ONLY JESSE'S speed when he matched zoom, but goes on to keep up with zoom THIS time around, even if barely. ultimately he throws his arms fast enough to smash zoom, something he couldn't come CLOSE to doing in zoom's first appearance.

http://img146.imageshack.us/i/28715042.jpg/

http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=28720407.jpg

and here's hal easily keeping up with flash moving at lightspeed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/greenlantern13-13.jpg

Tazer
Yo.

Originally posted by Galan007
zoom has already slapped hal around/phased/broke out of his constructs. no reason to think things would be any different here thumb down

zoom ftw.

U werent referring to the following as him "breaking free", were U??

Originally posted by jrodslam
http://img16.imagehosting.gr/out.php/t732454_sinestro-corps-special-001-10.jpg

becuz to be quite honest, all I see is him having gotten free of loose chain around his legs, and not some "wow, that looks rather complicated" contraption.

I dont see anything preventing Hal from catching him in a bubble, sucking out the oxygen and calling it a day here.......




Tazer

leonidas
i'm also curious about what galan said--where did zoom "slap hal around?"

kgkg
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm also curious about what galan said--where did zoom "slap hal around?" The only meeting they have is this one IIRC
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1122/48791218.th.jpghttp://img56.imageshack.us/img56/8783/90734141.th.jpghttp://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9529/20073886.th.jpghttp://img365.imageshack.us/img365/1213/96611870.th.jpg

kgkg
Originally posted by leonidas
and here's hal easily keeping up with flash moving at lightspeed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/greenlantern13-13.jpg That's Precrisis Barry and Hal I doubt Gl's can react that fast nowadays

zeel
Originally posted by jrodslam
That catching feat isnt impressive? There arent many ppl who can do that. Especially while hes already in mid run. Why do i need to i need to post something with Hal reacting to something similar to the speed Zoom was displaying when he fought Wally? Zoom doesnt always move at light speed. He went that fast because hes fighting Flash. If we're using him at peak lvl's, then its only fair we use Hal at peak lvl's to. If thats the case, i definitely dont see Zoom beating Hal. Hed have more of a chance going by average showings.

With this fight, im leaning towards Hal.


he caught him from behind and zoom wasnt paying attention. The catch by was impressive but does not in any way compare him to zooms reaction times. If it was a stand up face to face fight i hal going down like a ton of bricks. Who knows its comics.


Hal has a chance but im leaning toward zoom.

Kris Blaze
He can keep up with guys moving at lightspeed!

WOW!!!

Now Zoom is in biiiiig trouble! laughing

leonidas
Originally posted by kgkg
That's Precrisis Barry and Hal I doubt Gl's can react that fast nowadays

GLs were unaffected by the crisis. and hal was EASILY keeping up with barry through city streets. after seeing many of his subsequent appearances, i'm beginning to think that zom's first appearance is not a very accurate gauge of his speed. he's never been shown since being that fast and hasn't done anything wally hasn't done.

kgkg

leonidas
cheers

it's so nice when you're right for a change. big grin

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by leonidas
GLs were unaffected by the crisis. and hal was EASILY keeping up with barry through city streets. after seeing many of his subsequent appearances, i'm beginning to think that zom's first appearance is not a very accurate gauge of his speed. he's never been shown since being that fast and hasn't done anything wally hasn't done.

Eh....

Geoff Johns killed him off because of the other writer's inaccurate portrayal of him. Did you even read Rogues Revenge? Shows that time-control is relatively easy when you have his powers. And that Barry seemed to be hitting his limit at lightspeed yet another super-duper showing!

leonidas
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Eh....

Geoff Johns killed him off because of the other writer's inaccurate portrayal of him. Did you even read Rogues Revenge? Shows that time-control is relatively easy when you have his powers. And that Barry seemed to be hitting his limit at lightspeed yet another super-duper showing!

laughing out loud

where was the suggestion that barry hit a limit at lightspeed? there are many occasions where barry has easily gone ftl.

and if a group of writers can't decide on a consistent powerset, that doesn't exactly make it easy to determine what level he should be at. do we then simply use his first appearance as the final determination and forget about everything else? that's a slippery slope.

Tazer

Enyalus
Originally posted by kgkg
I agree that Zoom is no longer what he used to be
embarrasment
Probably because he's in a wheelchair and powerless now.

kgkg
Originally posted by Tazer thats not true: the purpose of CoIE was to streamline the DCU, and make it more accessible by way of eliminating all of the various multiples that existed at the time.........which was immediately rendered null & void when Hypertime was introduced back in the mid-90s. and personally I bet CoIE was only done cuz some suit @ WB-HQ prolly read a book w/Alan Scott in it and got his tie all twirled up in a knot w/confusion. also, yur not really gonna try & work the "DC is more scientifically believable" -angle now, are ya? cuz thats an argument where U can only LOSE using it.......
I'm not disagreeing with this but I don't see how what I said was untrue. Having a Multiverse/hypertime prevented just that illogical and unscientific stuff to be managed better via alternate reality so everything wouldn't be cannon material especially those that didn't make sense whatsoever. What you said about is that main reason why the crisis took place is correct but a gradual change was always taking place and the crisis was a perfect tool to take away everything that was overly unrealistic and allowed different stories to take place without affecting current continuity.

kgkg
Originally posted by Enyalus
Probably because he's in a wheelchair and powerless now. Well he is no longer Zoom. I was talking about when he did have his powers.

leonidas
Originally posted by kgkg
Well he is no longer Zoom. I was talking about when he did have his powers.

sure you were . . .

heh

Enyalus
Originally posted by kgkg
Well he is no longer Zoom. I was talking about when he did have his powers.
crackers

Tazer
Yo.

Originally posted by kgkg
I'm not disagreeing with this but I don't see how what I said was untrue. Having a Multiverse/hypertime prevented just that illogical and unscientific stuff to be managed better via alternate reality so everything wouldn't be cannon material especially those that didn't make sense whatsoever. What you said about is that main reason why the crisis took place is correct but a gradual change was always taking place and the crisis was a perfect tool to take away everything that was overly unrealistic and allowed different stories to take place without affecting current continuity.

comrade, in order to pull off wat they wanted to do w/CoIE, DC had to THROW OUT their previous continuity for a good number of their legacy/lynchpin books.....biggest example was Superman. that character was/is the center piece of a LARGE PART of DCU-history.......which all had to be retconned becuz all of a sudden the adventure involving it is no longer viable becuz HE was no longer who he'd been for the past 60yrs.

but dont forget, since IC, we're back to somewat of an amalgam of him PLUS the post-CoIE guy, so again wat was the point?? pre-C their books sold, sold well, and were readily accessible to any1 who wanted to read'em even IF they werent knowledgeable about the multiverse; the only reason to change it is if some "money man" got confused reading DC Comics Presents #50, never picked up a comic again and thought "hey, ya know wat we oughtta do....?" as if it was a gem of an idea.

and again, a friendly reminder: trying to call the pre-C DCU "unrealistic" doesnt help yur argument, but in-fact weakens it.




Tazer

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