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Originally posted by The Scribe
It means most people in that day saw them as the thieves they were.
But, today people don't know the true laws.
Most taxes are illegal including the Federal Reserve.
"To coin money."



Everyone working for them is yes.

Just like the courts would convict people that work for the mob and so on, or a getaway driver. All he did was drive the vehicle.



The Pharisees must not have liked them either.
I'd say they didn't like tax collectors.
Seems you can't connect things.

The Pharisees wanted to discredited Jesus any way they could.
So, they would use anything and everything they could think of. You are such a hypocrite

Just because most people saw them that way doesn't mean they were, that is a gross generalization. Can you show me where the Bible says that being a tax collector is a sin?

Your analogy also fails, they wouldn't convict them if they were forced to drive the car or unaware if their was a crime in progress. Buy that same thought process you should convict the gas station for selling them gas, the car manufacture for making the car and so on.

So if everyone in the IRS is a sinner then what about the people that built the building, supply them with electricity to do their sin, the mail person for bringing the sinners the mail and for you paying your taxes to support this sin?

So how about you address the rest of my post or is it that I'm correct and you are just as much of a sinner as those you are passing judgment on?

You sinner.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You sinner. I should become a tax collector and tax you for playing that devil music.

So, who ratted? disgust

Yes, it is a sin and they will all burn for it.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
I should become a tax collector and tax you for playing that devil music.

I have to make money first.

Originally posted by The Scribe
So, who ratted? disgust

Yes, it is a sin and they will all burn for it.

Please provide something more then just your opinion. Not that I like tax collectors.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I have to make money first.

Hippie Buddha needs a job.

Originally posted by The Scribe
Hippie Buddha needs a job.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Please provide something more then just your opinion. Not that I like tax collectors.

It's not my opinion. My God says so and the Constitution backs Him up.

Originally posted by The Scribe
It's not my opinion. My God says so and the Constitution backs Him up.

Your god talks to you?

http://www.magicofchristopher.com/straight-jacket.jpg

Originally posted by Da Pittman
You are such a hypocrite

Just because most people saw them that way doesn't mean they were, that is a gross generalization. Can you show me where the Bible says that being a tax collector is a sin?

Your analogy also fails, they wouldn't convict them if they were forced to drive the car or unaware if their was a crime in progress. Buy that same thought process you should convict the gas station for selling them gas, the car manufacture for making the car and so on.

So if everyone in the IRS is a sinner then what about the people that built the building, supply them with electricity to do their sin, the mail person for bringing the sinners the mail and for you paying your taxes to support this sin?

So how about you address the rest of my post or is it that I'm correct and you are just as much of a sinner as those you are passing judgment on?

Taxes are a method of ensuring everyone in a given society is helping that society be sustained.

Jesus paid his taxes and encouraged others to do so...(possibly)...St. Paul encourages Christians to take an active role in society and this includes taxation.

Is taxation theft? No, it is a charge for belonging to a society- if you don't like it. Leave.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Your god talks to you?

No, but you can read you're KJV.

Anyway, Buddha boy need not apply. disgust

Repent.

Originally posted by The Scribe
It's not my opinion. My God says so and the Constitution backs Him up. Your god doesn't say so because he had to have other people write the Bible for him because he doesn't know how to read and write.

Please show me where it says that being a tax collector is a sin?

How are taxes against the Constitution?

Originally posted by The Scribe
No, but you can read you're KJV.

Anyway, Buddha boy need not apply. disgust

Repent.

So, why do you reject God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church?

BTW when discussing the New Testament tax collectors we should remember the objection that the Pharisees had to them is that they were collecting taxes for an invading pagan state which they argued had stolen sovereignty over Jewish land. They did not object to the Temple Tax. King David had a system of taxation, when was he condemned for it?

Originally posted by The Scribe
No, but you can read you're KJV.

Anyway, Buddha boy need not apply. disgust

Repent.

Buddha boy? Thank you!

I have read it, and Grand-Moff-Gav is right on the money. I think you haven't read it, and are just making stuff up.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Taxes are a method of ensuring everyone in a given society is helping that society be sustained.

No



It is Paul, not "Saint" Paul. Unless you're a member of the
idol-worshipping, cult known as Catholicism.

And, no, Jesus would be against this government. They call themselves Christians and are not.



Yes, it is.

Point me in the direction of a place I can start my own country, without any interference, and I'm gone.

Originally posted by The Scribe
No



It is Paul, not "Saint" Paul. Unless you're a member of the
idol-worshipping, cult known as Catholicism.

And, no, Jesus would be against this government. They call themselves Christians and are not.



Yes, it is.

Point me in the direction of a place I can start my own country, without any interference, and I'm gone.

Still just your opinion.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Still just your opinion.

Like I said before...no.

Originally posted by The Scribe
No



It is Paul, not "Saint" Paul. Unless you're a member of the
idol-worshipping, cult known as Catholicism.

And, no, Jesus would be against this government. They call themselves Christians and are not.



Yes, it is.

Point me in the direction of a place I can start my own country, without any interference, and I'm gone.

It IS saint Paul because he IS a saint and yes I am a member of said "cult".

How do you know what Jesus would be for? What do you possibly know about it? You have no history to your belief...other than a poorly translated bible commsissioned by a very morally corrupt king. (Not that that necessarily makes the KJV invalid ofcourse but it will be good for you to remember when you start on the "corrupt Pope" rant that you probably had drilled into your brain by your pastor).

The Moon?

Or you could join the Quakers...or get a boat and go live in international waters.

Originally posted by The Scribe
Like I said before...no.

I don't even see scriptures from you. At least you could show a quote from the constitution that shows that taxes are wrong.

Originally posted by The Scribe
Like I said before...no. I think you brain has been in your avy for to long, you need to put it back.

Just overthrow a government and then have all the people just give you money to pay for the things that they need.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Just overthrow a government and then have all the people just give you money to pay for the things that they need.

Originally posted by The Scribe
Point me in the direction of a place I can start my own country, without any interference, and I'm gone.

That's the darn point, isn't it? You wouldn't be able to live by yourself. You wouldn't be able to defend yourself or be self-sustaining or to cope with any sort of emergency.

You NEED society to provide your education and your framework in which you grow up.

That, in turn, requires taxes.

Taxation is a public good. Your criminlisation of those whio tax is laughable. You answering people's requests for evidence, backing or reaosnable argument with "no" is simply cretinous.

Scribe is free to go deep into the wilds and live a tax-free life. Proceed.

Originally posted by Robtard
Scribe is free to go deep into the wilds and live a tax-free life. Proceed. If it wasn't for the taxes to protect those places there wouldn't be the wild for him to go to

If the Scribe went off into international waters I am sure he would love it. Until he was attacked by pirates and didn't have a nice police force to come save him.

Pfft, he's already pre-saved by the Jesus, duh.

Originally posted by Robtard
Pfft, he's already pre-saved by the Jesus, duh. Wait till he finds out that the Devil put a toll on the road to heaven

Is tax a sin? I would say, no it isn't. Taxes are necessary for society to function, just imagine where we would REALLY be without them.

From the religious point of view, Jesus said to "feed the hungry" he didn't say "profit from market conditions".

Jesus said to "heal the sick". He didn't say "Profit from their illnesses".

And what about "render unto Caeser what is Caesers".

"The last will be first"

It's harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle"

I find it ironic that the group claiming the closest association with Christianity these days, the far right wing, are ultra capitalist, and vehemantly opposed to socialism yet the one they claim to follow, Jesus, appears to have been a socialist himself (in practice, I know the concept didn't exist then).

Taxes for the benefit of society overall are not a sin.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
Is tax a sin? I would say, no it isn't. Taxes are necessary for society to function, just imagine where we would REALLY be without them.

A flawless utopia lead by Ron Paul?

Originally posted by The Scribe
No, but you can read you're KJV.

Anyway, Buddha boy need not apply. disgust

Repent.

You're using Micah from the Old Testament, which I already told you, if you're going to support your stance from Micah, then you mustn't exclude the rest of the Old Testament.

S you're okay with fathers stoning their insolent daughters, owning of slaves if the be from foreign lands, men not shaving, ever etc. etc. etc.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
It's harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle"

... this one's my favorite. because the translation that came out with the word "camel" could have very easily been mistranslated. the other meaning? a stiff thread.

verse-wise, there's "render cesaer's what is cesaer's, render to god what is god's." that's basically the only political statement in the bible.

and if you go strictly by the book then you give ten percent of your net worth to god. it doesn't really say how often, but modern day churches have set it to every seven days.

tax rates are, as a rule, higher than ten percent. and by the way, that's supposedly said by jesus. so technically, it's a sin to not pay your taxes.

but then again women are supposed to leave the village when they get their periods.
so it all depends on which verses you're willing to accept as true.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
verse-wise, there's "render cesaer's what is cesaer's, render to god what is god's." that's basically the only political statement in the bible.


What do you think it means?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
What do you think it means?

I think it means to pay your taxes to the state, and render your soul to god.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're using Micah from the Old Testament, which I already told you, if you're going to support your stance from Micah, then you mustn't exclude the rest of the Old Testament.

S you're okay with fathers stoning their insolent daughters, owning of slaves if the be from foreign lands, men not shaving, ever etc. etc. etc.

No, some laws were given exclusively to the Jews and do not apply to Christians. Judaism died along with Christ on the cross.
Everyone has to come to Christ and confess Him as their Savior.

Titus 1:4 (KJV)
Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

Revelation, chapter 2:9 (KJV)
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's the darn point, isn't it? You wouldn't be able to live by yourself. You wouldn't be able to defend yourself or be self-sustaining or to cope with any sort of emergency.

You NEED society to provide your education and your framework in which you grow up.

That's the lie people are told, "You need society."

While we are on the subject public schools are illegal as well as taxes.
The parents are responsible for their own children.
Not daddy government. baby


Homeschooling/ podcast


Homeschooling/ podcast 2

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
It IS saint Paul because he IS a saint and yes I am a member of said "cult".

I'll give you a few podcasts to listen to.
You can look for the rest.


Pope Admits Catholics and Muslims Worship the Same God.


Exposing More Darkness,


A Beast Comes to NY


Pope Bares Inquisition Teeth and Declares Catholic Church the Only True Church


Catholic Priest Pedophiles


Catholic Doctrines of Devils

Originally posted by The Scribe
That's the lie people are told, "You need society."

While we are on the subject public schools are illegal as well as taxes.
The parents are responsible for their own children.
Not daddy government. baby


Homeschooling/ podcast


Homeschooling/ podcast 2 You must be a troll because none can be this lame, are you for real?

If you have a group of people you will have a society, if you have been home schooled then you need to fire your parents as teachers.

Society: an extended social group having a distinctive cultural and economic organization

Society: A group of people who occupy a particular territory and speak a common language and share a common culture.

Society: A society is a body of humans generally seen as a community. or group of humans or other organisms of a single species that is delineated by the bounds of cultural identity, social solidarity, functional interdependence, or eusociality. ...

You preach about everything is a sin but your one of the biggest sinner as the rest as I have already pointed out.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
You must be a troll because none can be this lame, are you for real?

If you have a group of people you will have a society, if you have been home schooled then you need to fire your parents as teachers.

I meant the "society" as a whole.
I didn't mean Christians didn't need to form their own communities.

As for the sin question, you don't know what you're talking about or you would have repented by now and would be a Christian.

Originally posted by The Scribe
I meant the "society" as a whole.
I didn't mean Christians didn't need to form their own communities.

As for the sin question, you don't know what you're talking about or you would have repented by now and would be a Christian. I seem to know more than you and you are the one full of pride/wrath/despair.

And what the hell do you mean by "society as a whole", you said that society is a lie. You don't even know what you are talking about much less making scene. So you are saying that people don't need people as a whole, or are you saying that the world would be a better place if only "pure" Christan like you were on it. You would like to get rid of the other 5,999,999,999 people in the world?

Originally posted by Da Pittman
I seem to know more than you and you are the one full of pride/wrath/despair.

In your own eyes you think you see things correctly. You don't.

Romans 1:21-22 (KJV)
21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Colossians 2:8 (KJV)
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Isaiah 5:20-21 (KJV)
20: Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21: Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

Originally posted by Da Pittman
And what the hell do you mean by "society as a whole", you said that society is a lie. You don't even know what you are talking about much less making scene. So you are saying that people don't need people as a whole, or are you saying that the world would be a better place if only "pure" Christan like you were on it. You would like to get rid of the other 5,999,999,999 people in the world?

The people who deny Christ.
We don't need them.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (KJV)
14: Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15: And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16: And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17: Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18: And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
What do you think it means?

well, in context, jesus was probably keeping his eyes on the roman guards and pharisees and his mouth to the jews. i think this happened straight after his mad flipping-of-tables in the synagogue.

this rule probably helps to underline the 'no man may serve two masters,' with jesus saying that you don't have to be persecuted for your religion because you insist on focusing your material life straight there - although that life is meant for some

but with the direct question 'is it a sin'? i think to seriously think about that you have to believe the bible is written by god, not man. which i personally am not crazy about. i don't take the bible word by word literally. i used to, that's why i'm able to remember so much.

so... long awkward answer to short question. i'm not very good at putting philosophy into written word most of the time. it might improve if i were to decide to smoke a joint or two before i came on to type.

but then, we can't all live in amsterdam.

Originally posted by The Scribe
The people who deny Christ.
We don't need them.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (KJV)
14: Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15: And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16: And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17: Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18: And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. How so very Christan of you that everyone is not equal in the eyes of the lord and that all men can not be saved. You would rather kill off everyone right here and now then to soil yourself, how so very prideful you are. Can you not see how you are against the teaching of Christ and such a hypocrite to boot, I guess that will be a rhetorical question.

I can spout off scripture as well that will disagree with you, why because the Bible is so FULL of contradictions but you only want to pick and choose.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
How so very Christan of you that everyone is not equal in the eyes of the lord and that all men can not be saved.

Not everyone will be saved. God only loves His followers.

Matthew 7:21 (KJV)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Malachi 1:1-3 (KJV)
1: The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
2: I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3: And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:13-16 (KJV)
13: As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14: What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15: For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16: So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.





You're incorrect and again you know nothing of which you speak.

Also, you have just ousted yourself as a Bible corrector.

Romans 1:28 (KJV)
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Ok, Scribe, you are simply prosetlysiing and trolling. Cut it out. Either make some effort to rationally respond to arguments or do not post at all.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
You are incorrect again, God does love everyone and it is you that do not know what you are talking about. I'm am quite well versed in many religions and with Christianity since I was raised as one but then again you think that most of the people that are Christian are not Christan at all so that is a mute point.

I already gave you the verses where it actually shows that God does hate sin and the sinner. Why would He put people into hell if He loved them?

Just because you were raised something doesn't mean much. It might if you actually continued to be what you were raised.

I'm not a "troll." That's an absurd assumption.
My opinion is different, that is all.
Also, this is the "religious" forum. I added Bible verses.
Which goes with the theme of this forum.

I could make a lost of obvious trolls and flagrant rule violations.

Yes you are trolling, as for your verses I have shown you that the Bible is in contradition and that other verses says that he loves all man. The reason why God would love someone and send him to Hell is that he is not love incarnate as the Bible describes and is an evil prick. How can God be love and hate at the same time? Do you not know what you are saying?

because their is no hell to begin with for god to send you their in the first place.

Ignoring the troll, I believe that taxing is a sin. It's immoral to coerce people, and the burden of proof is on the people who support taxation.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Yes you are trolling, as for your verses I have shown you that the Bible is in contradition and that other verses says that he loves all man. The reason why God would love someone and send him to Hell is that he is not love incarnate as the Bible describes and is an evil prick. How can God be love and hate at the same time? Do you not know what you are saying?

No, I wasn't. I already sent a PM to another MOD addressing this issue and your continued attacks in this forum.

Courtesy
Don't attack others. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully ... without insult and personal attack.

I say the Bible doesn't have contradictions, you seem to think there are. We will never see eye to eye on this subject.

You can choice to ignore me, but I will not tolerate being singled out by you just because you want to bash Christians and the Bible.

God is more than one emotion and is beyond human comprehension.
People like to give God limitations and that is blasphemous.

If people want to follow Him they have to understand He makes the rules.

"Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully."

You're consistently messing up the respectfully and thoughtfully part. Which does make you a troll. Well, that or some kind of moron but if I called you that it might be construed as rude.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
"Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully."

You're consistently messing up the respectfully and thoughtfully part. Which does make you a troll. Well, that or some kind of moron but if I called you that it might be construed as rude.

No, from the first sentence of this thread I was singled out and called names for no reason, and it wasn't just jokingly.

I will wait for a response to my PM.

Funny how "trolls" call someone else a troll just because he has a different opinion from the majority.




Tax can either be a sin or not, depending on how it is gathered and used.
When you use taxes to take advantage of other people or for your personal gain, then yes it is a sin.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Funny how "trolls" call someone else a troll just because he has a different opinion from the majority.

If they deliberately express their opinion in a way that is intended to stir up trouble it's trolling plain and simple.


Anyway, taxes are not noted as a sin in any religion I can think of.

Originally posted by The Scribe
No, I wasn't. I already sent a PM to another MOD addressing this issue and your continued attacks in this forum.

Courtesy
Don't attack others. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully ... without insult and personal attack.

I say the Bible doesn't have contradictions, you seem to think there are. We will never see eye to eye on this subject.

You can choice to ignore me, but I will not tolerate being singled out by you just because you want to bash Christians and the Bible.

God is more than one emotion and is beyond human comprehension.
People like to give God limitations and that is blasphemous.

If people want to follow Him they have to understand He makes the rules. My attacks? I didn't call you a troll until the MOD did, or should you go back and read your own posts. I have shown you contradictions in your Bible, there is no seeing eye to eye on this. Posting scripture is not arguing. I'm "bashing" you because you are a hypocrite as others on this forum can see and that is why you are being "attacked" if you must ask. I have read many of your others posts in other threads which you do the same thing there as well so it is not just me or just the religion thing as well.

I will talk respectful to you if you provide the same respect and reply fully to a post, I have done this many times on this forum with many other people of religion. I just don't like morons.

a little something for you

JXvnz-p6Lm8

and just a few more for you

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html

and back on topic if tax collectors are sinners then why is Matthew one of the apostles, wasn't he a tax collector?

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Funny how "trolls" call someone else a troll just because he has a different opinion from the majority.



Originally posted by Da Pittman
I will talk respectful to you if you provide the same respect and reply fully to a post, I have done this many times on this forum with many other people of religion. I just don't like morons.

How by attacking me again and trying to convince me about contractions using two burnt out "magicians" who know nothing about what they talk about.

That show is almost as sad as they are.

Originally posted by The Scribe




How by attacking me again and trying to convince me about contractions using two burnt out "magicians" who know nothing about what they talk about.

That show is almost as sad as they are. As long as you want to play childish games I will and again how about responding to the myriad of other examples?

So if it is so sad, how about you show they are incorrect? How about you prove them wrong? OH that's right you can't because all you will say is they are sad "magicians", way to prove your point their genius.

Originally posted by The Scribe




How by attacking me again and trying to convince me about contractions using two burnt out "magicians" who know nothing about what they talk about.

That show is almost as sad as they are.

was r=their any inaccuracies in what they said?

Scribe, I didn't ask you to argue the point, I just told you to stop. You are still not replying to posts properly in order to troll. Do it again and you will receive a formal warning.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
So, why do you reject God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church?

OH OH OH! I know this one!


Because that church became apostate, and, therefore, you guys lost the ability to use the priesthood long ago.


That's why God restored the church. It is now call the Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.




You're welcome to become a member and actually hold the real priesthood at any time you want to. On top of that, you can get married and have sex WHILE being a "priest"! Hows that for a super deal? You can also have a "real" job while being a "priest".

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If they deliberately express their opinion in a way that is intended to stir up trouble it's trolling plain and simple.


Anyway, taxes are not noted as a sin in any religion I can think of.
Well, if you skim & scan the previous posts in this thread then you'll know who the REAL "trolls" are.

Originally posted by dadudemon
OH OH OH! I know this one!


Because that church became apostate, and, therefore, you guys lost the ability to use the priesthood long ago.


That's why God restored the church. It is now call the Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.




You're welcome to become a member and actually hold the real priesthood at any time you want to. On top of that, you can get married and have sex WHILE being a "priest"! Hows that for a super deal? You can also have a "real" job while being a "priest".

Oh, fair enough. Can't really argue with that! I mean, I think you are wrong but, whatever eh!

Is taxation a sin? Only without representation.

Happy 4th, everyone.

Originally posted by Digi
Is taxation a sin? Only without representation.

Happy 4th, everyone.



A day which is a dark mark on the hears of millions!

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
A day which is a dark mark on the hears of millions!

so, its obvious you were going for "hearts", but I want to believe you were trying for "ears"

Originally posted by Da Pittman

and back on topic if tax collectors are sinners then why is Matthew one of the apostles, wasn't he a tax collector?

correct, he was a tax collector. rumors are that jesus took him on as a disciple to show the world that even the most evil among them could become a good man.

most villains in the new testament are a)religious men and Pharisees

b)romans, who are often completely oblivious as to what's going on, or are just trying to maintain status quo in rome. if they knew enough to be concious of what was going on they often disappear as a character because, hell, how could a roman heathen understand and undertake something so holy and beloved?

c) tax collectors, who were apparently all modeled after alan rickman as the sheriff of nottingham. if a tax collector came to "see the light" they quit their jobs, and since tax collectors were supposed to be stealing more money then they were sending of to the romans . but it usually took jesus to talk to the poor money hoarding jews personally who, after all, were just living the life their fathers had been like zaccheus. who was very short and very interested in the new philosophy going around and so climbed a tree to see jesus passing and jesus magically psychically and mind invasion-ally knew his name and where he lived and basically said, "so's i'm goin' to come to your place and we can twalk there, cool man." and brought zaccheus from the edge with a little pep talk about sharing.


yeaaaaahhhhh

Originally posted by siriuswriter
correct, he was a tax collector. rumors are that jesus took him on as a disciple to show the world that even the most evil among them could become a good man.

most villains in the new testament are a)religious men and Pharisees

b)romans, who are often completely oblivious as to what's going on, or are just trying to maintain status quo in rome. if they knew enough to be concious of what was going on they often disappear as a character because, hell, how could a roman heathen understand and undertake something so holy and beloved?

c) tax collectors, who were apparently all modeled after alan rickman as the sheriff of nottingham. if a tax collector came to "see the light" they quit their jobs, and since tax collectors were supposed to be stealing more money then they were sending of to the romans . but it usually took jesus to talk to the poor money hoarding jews personally who, after all, were just living the life their fathers had been like zaccheus. who was very short and very interested in the new philosophy going around and so climbed a tree to see jesus passing and jesus magically psychically and mind invasion-ally knew his name and where he lived and basically said, "so's i'm goin' to come to your place and we can twalk there, cool man." and brought zaccheus from the edge with a little pep talk about sharing.


yeaaaaahhhhh This is the problem, not all tax collectors were Sheriff of Nottingham types.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
This is the problem, not all tax collectors were Sheriff of Nottingham types.

Of course not. But for the purpose of jesus and his parables, they had to be. it was a stereotype . if jesus uses the merchant of venice jewish money lender, then there's so much more sympathy toward the person in the story who's just trying to do the right thing.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Of course not. But for the purpose of jesus and his parables, they had to be. it was a stereotype . if jesus uses the merchant of venice jewish money lender, then there's so much more sympathy toward the person in the story who's just trying to do the right thing. As for the story yes I understand, but the argument was that being a tax collector is a sin. I'm not aware of anywhere in the Bible that says being a tax collector is a sin but being one is not favorable in the eyes of the masses.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
...

c) tax collectors, who were apparently all modeled after alan rickman as the sheriff of nottingham. if a tax collector came to "see the light" they quit their jobs, and since tax collectors were supposed to be stealing more money then they were sending of to the romans ...

That would be a thief! Tax collectors can be thief, but it is thievery that is the sin not tax collecting.

well then, straight out.

no. paying taxes is not a sin. neither is being a tax collector.

the big BUT comes into play with the bible, making it a sort of moral guilt-trip question, though. as in "you would rather put your money in the government than give it to god so he can give food to the starving little children in armenia?"

also, jesus is all about self-sacrifice . he praises those who give all they have to the not-yet-made church, and strongly implies that to not do so is a disappointment.

as mentioned before, jesus really makes only one poilitcal statement, and this he does because he's forced into a corner to answer. "give to caeser what it caeser's, give to god what is god's." i think that means, "give your earthly materials to caeser, but i'll take the psychological stuff." then he mutters behind his back

the church is a business too, but spirituality is not.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
the big BUT comes into play with the bible, making it a sort of moral guilt-trip question, though. as in "you would rather put your money in the government than give it to god so he can give food to the starving little children in armenia?"

Unless God has recently established a bank account you can't give money to him.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Unless God has recently established a bank account you can't give money to him.

God and I just happen to share a bank account, and I got the ok from the big man himself to inform you that you can put your money in that account. Just PM me for the account number.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Unless God has recently established a bank account you can't give money to him.

perhaps, but that fact isn't presented with the pictures of the starving armenians.

.... or the abused animals "please take me home" commercials with sarah machlaclan singing in the background.

If I remember it correctly, tax collectors during the bible times aren't really that trusted, because sometimes they ask for bribes. you know historically.

everyone asks for bribes nowadays.

anyway, i think that's why matthew was deemed a sinner, because it was well known that day that tax collectors ask for bribes or something.

that is, if i remember my stuff correctly.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
perhaps, but that fact isn't presented with the pictures of the starving armenians.

.... or the abused animals "please take me home" commercials with sarah machlaclan singing in the background.

a) Grammar grammar grammar.
b) Why not give some money to groups that help said children? No one is forcing you to choose between taxes and helping people.

Jesus: "Give to caeser what is caesers "

Originally posted by LaughLiveScream
Jesus: "Give to caeser what is caesers "

I was going to say that. haha.

From a Christian perspective, if you think you shouldn't pay taxes and claim to be a Christian, then you have never picked up a bible.
Jesus commanded us to pay taxes, and that was when he was talking about a Pagan roman state that is far worse than a good majority of nations out there today.
Not to mention Matthew was a tax collector.

Money is not a sin. It's what people often do for money and the level of importance that people give to money that can be a sin.

no