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Not a fight. It's a question of who was more to blame for Anakin falling to the dark side. Was it the stupidly rigid Jedi Order? Or does he have only himself to blame?

Yeah obviously Sidious and the Raiders have something to do with it too but they're nto in this topic.

its because sideous was going to have order 66 with or without anakin; in order for him to be the chosen one he had to survive, so his destiny was to turn to the darkside.

Snap.


And it may be because of Fallout, but Raiders? Who?

The Tuskens/Sandpeople who killed his mother and led Anakin to his first major step to teh dark side.

Ahhh.

It was all of 'em, but Sidious' final machinations were the tipping point.

Jedi Order = Dogmatic, stagnant fools.

Anakin = Utter idiot.

Both sides failed horribly.

^^ Unnecessary.

Why did you even include the jedi order? If he listened to them (prophecy aside) he wouldn't have any trouble.

Because listening to them means denying everything it is to be human and young.

Originally posted by Luminatus
Because listening to them means denying everything it is to be human and young.

That's right. Yoda admits this near the end of the RotS novel. Good thing Luke did it right when he re-built the Order.

In "Fury" Ben Skywalker describes it perfectly. It's fine for Jedi to be in love with someone, have a relationship with them etc, just so long as you can survive losing them.

The PT Jedi failed because they took the 'no attachments' thing way too literally.

I blame the Jews.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I blame the Jews.

No racism here! You sound like one of those terrorists or a White Supremists.

I'm actually Jewish.

Self-hating Jews are annoying.

Yet strangely hilarious when they're not overdoing the Woody Allen.

Nephthys, maybe you're allergic to sarcasm.

Yeah and irony brings me out in hives.

I love that smiley.

I've been using that smilie for longer than you've been registered!

I've been making that actual face for longer than you've been alive.

*glum*


*notices small grammatical mistake*


*feels marginally better*

What is it? If I may ask.

Translation: I have been making that actual face for longer than you exist.


You changed tenses. Not a biggie.

Fixed.

I love that Edit button, I just want to hug it.









*Hugs Edit button*

*slaps edit button for being a traitor*

I was an edit sniper long before you two met!

*cries*

I was a sniper long before you were born.

I miss the days when I actually made sense now and then.




*Hides edit button on the attic for protection*

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Nephthys, maybe you're allergic to sarcasm.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

AND PUNS ARE THE HIGHEST!!!


































































...or vice versa.

I use both.

Yes, I'm that great.

IyCRJmerW1Q

Again?

Always.

You know, Anakin is kinda right.
"From my point-of-view, the Jedi are evil."

For one, the Jedi are a cult. They travel the galaxy, snatch up anyone they please and raise them away from any other influences. The kids are indoctrinated and know only the way of the Jedi.

If Obi-Wan in the Phantom Menace is to be believed
""If you would just follow the Code, you would be on the council"

Then anyone who does not conform cannot be a leading member of the Jedi. Thus reform or innovation is impossible.

The code implemented by the Jedi is a third point of how one could se them as evil. The Jedi in many ways deny what it means to be human (in the metaphorical sense). You cannot love, you cannot have attachment, you can not be allowed to "live."

The final nail in the coffin then is the hypocrisy. Yoda and Windu, basically Head Jedi 1 and 2, did not even follow this code. Yoda loved Dooku and could not bring himself to kill his favorite student. Attachment and love. Windu went from '"let's arrest Palpatine" to 'kill him!!" after the Sith Lord killed his fellow Jedi.. So obviously he too was letting his feelings cloud his judgment.

So a flawed, corrupt, brainwashing, hypocritical order. Sounds pretty evil to me.

Originally posted by Luminatus
You know, Anakin is kinda right.
"From my point-of-view, the Jedi are evil."

For one, the Jedi are a cult. They travel the galaxy, snatch up anyone they please and raise them away from any other influences. The kids are indoctrinated and know only the way of the Jedi.

If Obi-Wan in the Phantom Menace is to be believed
""If you would just follow the Code, you would be on the council"

Then anyone who does not conform cannot be a leading member of the Jedi. Thus reform or innovation is impossible.

The code implemented by the Jedi is a third point of how one could se them as evil. The Jedi in many ways deny what it means to be human (in the metaphorical sense). You cannot love, you cannot have attachment, you can not be allowed to "live."

The final nail in the coffin then is the hypocrisy. Yoda and Windu, basically Head Jedi 1 and 2, did not even follow this code. Yoda loved Dooku and could not bring himself to kill his favorite student. Attachment and love. Windu went from '"let's arrest Palpatine" to 'kill him!!" after the Sith Lord killed his fellow Jedi.. So obviously he too was letting his feelings cloud his judgment.

So a flawed, corrupt, brainwashing, hypocritical order. Sounds pretty evil to me. Your perception and interpretation is flawed itself.


The Jedi didn't snatch up children, the parents gave the children up willingly. And in cases like Anakin's, gave them a better life.

Following the Code meant adhering to a principle which appeared to work. Why fix it if ain't broken/obsolete?

Of course the Jedi denied what it means to be human. To be human isn't just to love. It also means to be angry, jealous, resentful, greedy, self-centered, and fearful. Despite his gloomy outlook, Hobbes made a helluva point. Between allowing emotions to run rampant like the Dark Siders who cause death and destruction, and keeping control of your emotions like the Light Siders---it's the lesser of two evils. Though following that path can lead to mistakes which will obviously bite your ass down the road (Yoda with Dooku, Kenobi with Vader, Marek with Palaptine), doing so proves your previous point: they're just mortal sentients who make mistakes!

As for Yoda going to kill Palpatine---you, seeing as how this is your complaint, shouldn't be viewing Mace and Yoda's actions toward Sidious as one of hypocrisy, but rather a moment of lucidity. They had finally recognized the clear and present danger of letting that man live, and breaking away from the Code you yourself despise, tried to do the right thing.

Better materialistically perhaps. But he was still a slave in a way.



...the entire PT shows why it WAS broken and obsolete.
Yoda himself admits it in the ROTS novel.



The dark side can be used for good purposes as well. It doesn't have to only be about death and destruction.



I was talking about Windu. And Mace is pretty much responsible for the massacre of the Jedi. He enabled Palpatine to have justification for the Purge.

Originally posted by Luminatus
Better materialistically perhaps. But he was still a slave in a way. In such a sense, we're all slaves to something. May as well be the Jedi.



Originally posted by Luminatus
...the entire PT shows why it WAS broken and obsolete.
Yoda himself admits it in the ROTS novel. Hence my italicizing the word "appeared." It took a catastrophe for them to see it, but up until then, it wasn't as if they were purposefully f*cking themselves and others over, as your initial post implied.



Originally posted by Luminatus
The dark side can be used for good purposes as well. It doesn't have to only be about death and destruction. Yes it can. But the mytos' history has shown that it is far more likely to cause harm. Again, lesser of two evils.



Originally posted by Luminatus
I was talking about Windu. And Mace is pretty much responsible for the massacre of the Jedi. He enabled Palpatine to have justification for the Purge. What would you have done? If the Chosen One, whom I don't trust due to his prolonged time spent with Palpatine, came up to me telling me that the guy was responsible for the greatest war the galaxy's ever known... I wouldn't be off playing detective trying to search for hard evidence while the Dark Lord of the Sith (who had just admitted to Anakin about his identity, so his motives for doing such must be analyzed) is allowed more free rein.

No. You crispy-critter the motherf*cker.

At least I don't have anyone telling me not to feel here. Telling me to accept those I love will die and I just have to deal with it. Yoda did as much to Anakin.



Ignorance of your own incompetence is not an excuse. They refused any and all change so they reaped what they sewed.



Fair enough.



Except he wasn't going to do that. He switched his mind after the battle. He let his emotions cloud his judgment ie. he was a hypocrite.

what point are you trying to make here luminatus? the sith possess all of the negative traits of the jedi and more. in the end theyre worse because aside from their self destructive personality they intentionally bring harm onto others knowing that what they do is harmful to others. so why even bring it up?



hypocritical? how so? if you duel someone with a weapon that can slice someone in two and youre aiming at vital points which mace did do multiple times in the fight that means youre fighting to kill. he never "changed his mind" as soon as soon as sideous whipped out his lightsaber and they started dueleing mace was already ready to kill him. thats like a saying a cop is a hypocrite because he busts in to a room with the intent to arrest someone and he ends up killing the guy in a shoot-out.

Except Palpatine was unarmed and then got his face melted. It's no different than Anakin beheading Dooku. Both killed (or in Windus' case, planned to kill) a defenseless person.

I'm pretty sure a cop would be in some shit if after the shootout, he had the fugitive on the ground and he just put one in the guy's head.

Facepalm.

Originally posted by Luminatus
Except Palpatine was unarmed

the man can shoot lightning out of his fingers. he's never unarmed.



if the criminal had a gun in his hand when the cop found him after the shoot-out on the ground and the criminal said "its not loaded" the cop could still legally shoot him.

Except he had already tried this and it failed. Mace could have just deflected it again if he hadn't lost his hand.
He attempted to kill an unarmed and defeated man out of passion, defying the code. That's all there is to it.

Originally posted by Luminatus
Except he had already tried this and it failed.

and for all Mace knew Palps could have just been waiting for him to let his guard down. Just because the criminal says the gun isn't loaded doesn't mean it actually isn't hence why if a police officer sees a man with a possible weapon he's allowed to kill.



mace couldn't have known that. How could he know that Palpatine wasn't simply waiting for a more oppertune moment. like for example mace putting his lightsaber away?

Thats what Palpatine did to Marek, Marek dropped the saber and started shooting lightning again, its a sith thing that they have ALL done,(the ones who knew it that were part of the Rule of Two) they wait for the lioghtsaber deactivation and then kill

Originally posted by Luminatus
Except he had already tried this and it failed. Mace could have just deflected it again if he hadn't lost his hand.
He attempted to kill an unarmed and defeated man out of passion, defying the code. That's all there is to it. What those ^ two said.

This man was the sole source of the most destructive conflict in galactic history. He turned Dooku, planned the war, was in complete control of the Senate and the Courts... He needed to die. Arresting someone as immensely powerful, and popular (that's a key one too), would do far more harm than defying the code. Lesser of two evils: Be a (bit of, in Windu's case---he was already kind of aggressive for a Jedi) hypocrite, or doom the entire f*cking galaxy. Mace made the most logical, rational, and sane choice. Big deal if he defied the Code--it's something you lament anyways, why is defying it such a sin in your eyes?

Because I don't pretend it's worth anything. The Code is shit and I openly say that. Mace and the others were supposed to follow it.

Besides, again, Mace is pretty much a large part of why the Jedi Purge even happened.

Originally posted by Luminatus
Because I don't pretend it's worth anything. The Code is shit and I openly say that. Mace and the others were supposed to follow it.

Besides, again, Mace is pretty much a large part of why the Jedi Purge even happened. Wait wait wait... you say the Code is shit, condemn the Jedi for having it, then condemn Mace for breaking it in a time that calls for it to be broken? Talk of hypocrisy.

It's not hypocrisy. I don't believ ein the code doesn't mean others can break it whenever they damn well please. He's sworn to uphold that piece of shit and he didn't. I made no such pledge so I can say it's crap and be on my way. He cannot.

Originally posted by Luminatus
It's not hypocrisy. I don't believ ein the code doesn't mean others can break it whenever they damn well please. He's sworn to uphold that piece of shit and he didn't. I made no such pledge so I can say it's crap and be on my way. He cannot. So what you're saying is, you want the Jedi to always do what they've sworn to do, even if breaking that misguided oath serves the greater good for all?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So what you're saying is, you want the Jedi to always do what they've sworn to do, even if breaking that misguided oath serves the greater good for all?

Bless your will to try and reason with these people.

What do you mean, these people?

Them. I guess.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So what you're saying is, you want the Jedi to always do what they've sworn to do, even if breaking that misguided oath serves the greater good for all?

It depends. Would Mace, like many Jedi who have broken the code, simply have gone on to leave it as is? Would he have given into his passion then made absolutely no change in Jedi policy and kept the same old "feeling is bad" crap?

If no, then I can support him. But if he'd just break the code when it was convenient then go back to propping it up, I'd call him a hypocrite like I have from the start.

Originally posted by Luminatus
It depends. Would Mace, like many Jedi who have broken the code, simply have gone on to leave it as is? Would he have given into his passion then made absolutely no change in Jedi policy and kept the same old "feeling is bad" crap?

If no, then I can support him. But if he'd just break the code when it was convenient then go back to propping it up, I'd call him a hypocrite like I have from the start. In these cases, you're justified. Context and situations FTW.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien

Of course the Jedi denied what it means to be human. To be human isn't just to love. It also means to be angry, jealous, resentful, greedy, self-centered, and fearful.

You know what else it means to be human?

To be human is also to be peaceful, kind, caring, joyous, content, unselfish and courageous.

All of those are human too.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
You know what else it means to be human?

To be human is also to be peaceful, kind, caring, joyous, content, unselfish and courageous.

All of those are human too. I never said otherwise, did I?

But which occurs more often and more easily? Your list or mine?

Mine.

It only has one thing in it though. Apathy.

Whatever. Screw it.

Go get some sleep.

I'm going to disagree with Luminatus. Palpatine's EXISTENCE was dangerous, hence Mace trying to kill him. He was also a murder and incited the Clone Wars. You put out the fire before it does more damage. As we can see from Palpatine NOT being killed, he WAS too dangerous to be left alive. Palpatine was hugely in favor with the masses in the Republic; nobody would have convicted him of anything, regardless of what the Jedi said, if he were still around to twist people with the Dark Side.

doesn't matter. the taking of the law into ones own hands is essentially against the law. Anakin had every lawful right to save sideous. the jedi are just monks, not police or government officials.

Personally I support the unofficial support of vigilantes. To an extent. For me, Mace falls within that extent. Plus Palps was a Sith, they're not protected by law.

Sure they are. There is no law against being a Sith. So killing one is just like killing anyone else.

Pfff. Law. Law is a creation of mortals, not of the gods. Laws can be changed. Laws can be broken. Laws can be misguided. Laws should exist to protect the peaceful and the innocent, not the warmongers and murderers. None of the latter who are known to be as such should be protected by law. Once it is recognized that you forfeit law, law should forfeit you and your so called "rights."


Sith are not lawful. They defy the Republic's law and the intent of its morals. They are the ultimate perpetrators of anti-law. The savagery that their nature has inflicted is not lawful, why should the law protect them? No law exists decrying the Sith, and no law exists protecting them. They're outside the law, neither above it nor within it. Law is a product of morals and values. Sith are outside the law. Sith are outside morality.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Personally I support the unofficial support of vigilantes. To an extent. For me, Mace falls within that extent. Plus Palps was a Sith, they're not protected by law.

This is a good discussion. There is a difference between vigilantes and vigilantism. The former decides to take the law into his own hands when it suits him. The latter is done by people who genuinely believe that at the moment of their decision, it is the best decision and for the good of the state/humanity. Mace practiced vigilantism because the law was inadequate to deal with Palpatine, and he would have done even more damage knowing that the Jedi found out about his sith status. Ergo, what Mace did might not be legal, but it is justifiable.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
This is a good discussion. There is a difference between vigilantes and vigilantism. The former decides to take the law into his own hands when it suits him. The latter is done by people who genuinely believe that at the moment of their decision, it is the best decision and for the good of the state/humanity. Mace practiced vigilantism because the law was inadequate to deal with Palpatine, and he would have done even more damage knowing that the Jedi found out about his sith status. Ergo, what Mace did might not be legal, but it is justifiable. In the same way what anakin did was justifiable.

Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
In the same way what anakin did was justifiable.

Absolutely not. Anakin did what he for purely selfish reasons. It wasn't for the greater good, it was for him based on a dream or premonition he had. Not even close to being the same thing as what Mace did.

Though Anakin "thought" he was justified, so in his mind it was okay. Just like the Sandman from Spiderman 3. "I'm not a bad guy. I have a little girl who's sick. That makes it okay to break the law."

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Though Anakin "thought" he was justified, so in his mind it was okay. Just like the Sandman from Spiderman 3. "I'm not a bad guy. I have a little girl who's sick. That makes it okay to break the law."

I wouldn't go as far as call them the same. The Sandman (or Lowell from Wings) was trying to save his little girl's life because of an imminent threat. Anakin was trying to save Padme's life because he wanted her for himself, and because of a "dream" he had. They seem similar but I would be more inclined to call the Sandman's issue, while illegal and legally reprehensible, in some ways, justifiable.

Yeah, he was legitimately doing it for someone else, not for his own desires (in a sense). But personally I don't care about such sentimentality. If I had it my way, Anakin would be put to death and Sandman's going away for life. Without his sand of course.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah, he was legitimately doing it for someone else, not for his own desires (in a sense). But personally I don't care about such sentimentality. If I had it my way, Anakin would be put to death and Sandman's going away for life. Without his sand of course.

Well as explained, the Sandman committed manslaughter. I genuinely felt bad for the guy and I'm as conservative as they come. Maybe a few years in jail, no more than 5 for involuntary manslaughter.

Anakin deserves the needle or my personal favorite, the firing squad.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Well as explained, the Sandman committed manslaughter. I genuinely felt bad for the guy and I'm as conservative as they come. Maybe a few years in jail, no more than 5 for involuntary manslaughter.

Anakin deserves the needle or my personal favorite, the firing squad. LOL I see him just catching the bullets. Firing squad via Metal Storm.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
LOL I see him just catching the bullets. Firing squad via Metal Storm.

I don't know what force properties bullets have but I'd guess with 10 automatic assault rifles firing at him, it's conceivable that he will miss at least half the bullets as they paint his body full of lead.

Anakin did what he did because he knew his dreams were not just dreams. He had a dream before of someone he loved dying..and oh look, he was totally right.

Anakin believing Padme would die in childbirth and trying to prevent this is completely understandable as he had evidence that those visions were right.

And I like the subjective morality of your condemnation.
"I feltt bad for this guy but not this other guy. Kill the one I don't feel bad for."

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Anakin did what he did because he knew his dreams were not just dreams. He had a dream before of someone he loved dying..and oh look, he was totally right.

Anakin believing Padme would die in childbirth and trying to prevent this is completely understandable as he had evidence that those visions were right.

And I like the subjective morality of your condemnation.
"I feltt bad for this guy but not this other guy. Kill the one I don't feel bad for."


Except the two cases aren't the same. Try again.

Yes they are. Both were trying to save someone they loved from death.

Not like it matters. Who the hell wants to remember Spiderman 3?

I'm siding with Pyron on this issue. Plus, if it was me, I'd probably have done the same thing as Anakin in his position (though I would have to think on it because I'm not a twit who forgets that Sith are habitual lier's)

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Yes they are. Both were trying to save someone they loved from death.

Not like it matters. Who the hell wants to remember Spiderman 3?

Except one was doing it for selfish reasons while the other one was doing it to save his daughter's life. One was also doing it based on premonitions, while the other one was doing it based on things that have already transpired.

This makes no sense at all. Explain how one attempt to save a person you love's life is selfish and the other is not?

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
This makes no sense at all. Explain how one attempt to save a person you love's life is selfish and the other is not?

Anakin's premonition wasn't based on anything tangible, it was his belief. His attempt to save Padme's life had less to do with her safety and more to do with his selfish reason.

The Sandman's attempt, while definitely reprehensible, was more selfless because his little girl was dying. There was no admonition about him not being able to live without her, no selfish reasons.

No...it has to do with her safety. His belief is in turn based on the fact the one other time he had such a dream, it was absolutely right. He wanted to keep what happened to his mother from happening to his wife. That's just obvious.


And I just wanted to post this as it's kinda...well not really relevant but funny IMO.
hhdk0YOrVCg

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
No...it has to do with her safety. His belief is in turn based on the fact the one other time he had such a dream, it was absolutely right. He wanted to keep what happened to his mother from happening to his wife. That's just obvious. Doesn't change the fact though that guy was a complete moron. His novelized self was so much more convincing.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
No...it has to do with her safety. His belief is in turn based on the fact the one other time he had such a dream, it was absolutely right. He wanted to keep what happened to his mother from happening to his wife. That's just obvious.


And I just wanted to post this as it's kinda...well not really relevant but funny IMO.
hhdk0YOrVCg

He said it himself. He can't live without her. And please, he's basing everyone on 1 dream that was accurate. That's hardly conclusive that his dreams are premonitions. Meanwhile, the Sandman just wanted to keep his girl alive.

Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
the jedi are just monks, not police or government officials.

Beg your pardon, but no. Jedi are not "just monks," they are keepers of the peace.

Palpatine started a war that devastated the Republic and led to countless deaths, to say nothing of the fact that he was a traitor as he'd broken his oath of office. Mace was well within his rights.

Originally posted by Luminatus
Sure they are. There is no law against being a Sith. So killing one is just like killing anyone else.

Actually there is. In PoD, it is stated that the Sith are an illegal organisation that was outlawed some 4000 years ago (3000 years in PoD, 4000 by the time of the PT).

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Doesn't change the fact though that guy was a complete moron. His novelized self was so much more convincing.

It's the same damn thing. Exact same motivation and everything.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
It's the same damn thing. Exact same motivation and everything.

No, it's not.

Yes, it is.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Actually there is. In PoD, it is stated that the Sith are an illegal organisation that was outlawed some 4000 years ago (3000 years in PoD, 4000 by the time of the PT). wow that's against our rights to freedom of religion.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
It's the same damn thing. Exact same motivation and everything. His whinyness is downplayed. He seemed so much more badass in the novel, and so much more legitimately duped by Palaptine. It's hard to stay pissed a character that's well written.

DS is wrong, as usual.

Pryon wins.

Originally posted by Eminence
DS is wrong, as usual.

Pryon wins.

Faunus trolling ftw.

You would know.

Originally posted by Eminence
You would know.

Yea, I know it well thanks to you. You just use the term as a rebuttal when your low self esteem becomes transparent and your self defense mechanism kicks in.

You must have me confused with... you.

Originally posted by Eminence
You must have me confused with... you.

There goes that self defense mechanism I was talking about. Next time please try to be a little less predictable.

Oh man... they're all blinking at once. That is so trippy.

Originally posted by Luminatus
Was it the stupidly rigid Jedi Order? Why would the Order be at fault? Seriously, Anakin was a immature and pshycotic nutjob. No one put a gun to his head. His weakness was his innability to think straight.

Ok, i may be a bit to fairly wrong in this cuz i havnt read it in a while, but i do know a few things: Palpatine was part of the Rule of Two, which means he had Banes teachings. This is from the Bane Rule of Two: There are some who posses the ability to shoot lightning from their fingers, that can move mountains with mere thoughts, then there are those who are skilled in the arts of persuasion, that can affect millions of worlds with just a few words, and then there are those who posses a natural affinity for the dark side itself, those are the ones who can unleash dark magics and hidden sorceries on their foes." i think Sidious was one of the persuaders, though all after Bane knew how to cast lightning, Palpatine DID affect millions of world with just a few words. I think a guy like that could easily get out of being convicted for high treason. Dont forget that he was the Supreme Chancellor, AND the most respected man in the galaxy. He was supposed to be the savior of the Republic, i dont htink he would be convicted. He would get off and then the jedi would be attacked by the entire Grand Army of the Republic for attacking him, not just Anakin and the 501st legion. Palpatine was WAY to dangerous to be left alive, as he killed thousands of people, and started a full scale rebellion just to get a few people out of the way. He also killed enyone that was force sensitive that he found, or ordered them killed, or turned them into his slaves. There was no room for error, there was no force sensitive that he left alive, or free, and there was no person that wasnt oppressed except people that were high in his favor. Case closed, i think the jedi would remake the Code if he died AFTER his Sith identity had been revealed. Maybe even before.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Anakin's premonition wasn't based on anything tangible, it was his belief. His attempt to save Padme's life had less to do with her safety and more to do with his selfish reason.

The Sandman's attempt, while definitely reprehensible, was more selfless because his little girl was dying. There was no admonition about him not being able to live without her, no selfish reasons.

What? What is his "selfish reason"? If was to save someone's life, it's not like as if he wants Padme because he'll get money for it or something?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
What? What is his "selfish reason"? If was to save someone's life, it's not like as if he wants Padme because he'll get money for it or something? The novel makes a very good impression upon the reader that Anakin's desire to save Padme's life isn't out of a sense of deep and unyielding compassion, a trademark in the Jedi (and not completely absent here). Rather it stems out of a need to control things, in this case, control whether the woman he's been obsessed with for 13 years will live or die. The lengths he goes to in order to ascertain this control break all boundaries of rationality and, IMO, sanity.