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combined, the team covers the fundamental forces of the universe quite nicely. ss himself has shown great control over all four forces himself.

they battle in the arctic but ss starts the battle in the ANTARCTIC. no blowing up the planet for any of them.

can the 3 take the current ss down?

team.

imo, a well written firestorm could give surfer a decent run by himself.

a decent run, i'd agree. could the others even out the power advantage though. hmmm . . . umm

Firestorm is more powerful than the other 2 on his team combined.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Firestorm is more powerful than the other 2 on his team combined.

i'd actually agree with that. but ss>FS. can mags and graviton help enough to tip the balance in the team's favor? maybe . . .

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Firestorm is more powerful than the other 2 on his team combined.

Not really. He's got a lot more tricks up his sleeve, but in terms of power scope, he's not more powerful than those two combined.

Originally posted by leonidas
could the others even out the power advantage though. hmmm . . . umm hard to say. imo, magento is the only one who'd really be able to help firestorm out.

Originally posted by batdude123
Not really. He's got a lot more tricks up his sleeve, but in terms of power scope, he's not more powerful than those two combined.
Agreed. Maybe if it was Ronnie, because he would know what he's doing. But not the current Firestorm.

And starting Magneto in the arctic would mean that he's amped. Which is sweet as hell (that's a professional assessment, by the way.)

Team wins.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Agreed. Maybe if it was Ronnie, because he would know what he's doing. But not the current Firestorm. ronnie was as good as he was, because he was merged with professor stein for a very long time.

if you remember, jason was just as powerful/knowledgeable as ronnie (if not more so) in the short time he was merged with the professor. the guy owned orion, an amped kalibak, and a shit-ton (scientific term) of shadow demons, with a fair amount of ease. that is no small feat.

but more times than not, writers like using FS a little more than a fodder character

Originally posted by Galan007
ronnie was as good as he was, because he was merged with professor stein for a very long time.

if you remember, jason was just as powerful/knowledgable as ronnie (if not more so) in the short time he was merged with the professor. the guy owned orion, an amped kalibak, and a shit-ton (scientific term) of shadow demons, with a fair amount of ease.

but more times than not, writers like using FS a little more than a fodder character.
I remember him owning Orion (by turning the bridge into lead, lol), and the shadow demon thing.

But yeah, no Professor Stein anymore for current Firestorm, so...

Do I think Jason-FS gives SS a good fight, 1v1? Not at all. But with amped Mags and Graviton (whoever said Graviton was pretty useless in this battle, I'm inclined to agree) backing him, I definitely give them the win like you do.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I remember him owning Orion (by turning the bridge into lead, lol)

Do I think Jason-FS gives SS a good fight, 1v1? Not at all. he also owned orion before that wif teh uber baseball bat!

i think in a PIS-free environment, current jason could give surfer a good fight. with stein, i think they would be neraly equal

I agree with the latter, yeah.

Team

SS loses

Aw shit, no Prof. Stein? That really hurts his chances.

SS FTW via output, durability, and speed advantages.

Question-Whats current firestorms best organic matter manip feat?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Question-Whats current firestorms best organic matter manip feat? probably mucking with killer frost at the molecular level.

but organic matter manipulation is hardly the medium through which firestorm could give surfer a decent run.

Originally posted by Galan007
team.

imo, a well written firestorm could give surfer a decent run by himself.

^ wouldn't that mean that a well written surfer would whoop that ass?

basically fighting god cable but actually putting in real effort.

Silver Surfer.

I don't know about Graviton but Magneto have great chances to be killed in the first 0,000000001 seconds of the match. I don't think that his magnetic shields would stop Surfer.

Both magneto and graviton will be taken out pretty quickly in this fight. Mags thru matter manip and removal of his Xgene,and graviton would simply be vaporized. Then its left to Surfer vs FS and i doubt FS can last too long against i serious minded surfer.

Magneto can matter manipulate, too.

^Heh. true but nowhere close enough to stop SS from removing his Xgene and depowering him or lobotomizing him as he did to Godcable.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ wouldn't that mean that a well written surfer would whoop that ass?

basically fighting god cable but actually putting in real effort.

how does that compare?

firestorm < cable?

Originally posted by Naija boy
^Heh. true but nowhere close enough to stop SS from removing his Xgene and depowering him or lobotomizing him as he did to Godcable.
He did none of those things to God-Cable.

And by that logic, Surfer > HoM Wanda, simply because she's a mutant. There's gotta be limit set somewhere. He's amped in this thread. He's pretty uber.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He did none of those things to God-Cable.

And by that logic, Surfer > HoM Wanda, simply because she's a mutant. There's gotta be limit set somewhere. He's amped in this thread. He's pretty uber.

He DID lobotmize God cable as confirmed by deadpool.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Surferlobotomizedcablesbrainofmo-1.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Surferlobotomizedcablesbrainofmosto.jpg

Further ur analgoy is faulty. HOM Wanda, was a reality warper of the highest order. Reality warping by default is greater than matter manip but being a reality warper at such a high level puts her unbelievably far above surfer and her feats show this. In this case however, we r talking about molecular manipulation and magneto hasnt shown anything to put him even close to surfers level in that regard. Hence he wont be able to do anything about surfer altering his genetic makeup.

Originally posted by Naija boy
He DID lobotmize God cable as confirmed by deadpool.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Surferlobotomizedcablesbrainofmo-1.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Surferlobotomizedcablesbrainofmosto.jpg
And elsewhere in that same series Deadpool (or was it that girl Fairweather?) who said Cable willingly lobotomized himself? Which is what we actually see, with Deadpool helping him out and literally teleporting away the part of the brain that gave Cable his TP.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Further ur analgoy is faulty. HOM Wanda, was a reality warper of the highest order. Reality warping by default is greater than matter manip but being a reality warper at such a high level puts her unbelievably far above surfer and her feats show this. In this case however, we r talking about molecular manipulation and magneto hasnt shown anything to put him even close to surfers level in that regard. Hence he wont be able to do anything about surfer altering his genetic makeup.
Okay.

Originally posted by Enyalus

And elsewhere in that same series Deadpool (or was it that girl Fairweather?) who said Cable willingly lobotomized himself? Which is what we actually see, with Deadpool helping him out and literally teleporting away the part of the brain that gave Cable his TP.


True. What i think happened is that surfer only partially lobotomized him with deadpool completeting the job. When surfer defeated Cable he even said "u will live without ur powers" which indicates he did mess with cables powers. However he probly didnt completely remove them or remove all the parts which cable wanted gone and so deadpool completed this.



Good we agree.

Originally posted by Naija boy
True. What i think happened is that surfer only partially lobotomized him with deadpool completeting the job. When surfer defeated Cable he even said "u will live without ur powers" which indicates he did mess with cables powers. However he probly didnt completely remove them or remove all the parts which cable wanted gone and so deadpool completed this.

i agree with this. it's really the only thing that makes sense.

and i think ss still probably wins a slight majority in this match. maybe . . .

Sufer didn't do anything to Cable's powers. After his fight with SS, Cable held up Providence then set it down in the ocean with Rachel with the Phoenix Force couldn't hold it any longer, then he communicated with the entire world.

SS was probably talking about the fact the Cable was burning his body out, which he talks about when he tells SS that he's running out of time.

Originally posted by Mindset
Sufer didn't do anything to Cable's powers. After his fight with SS, Cable held up Providence then set it down in the ocean with Rachel with the Phoenix Force couldn't hold it any longer, then he communicated with the entire world.

SS was probably talking about the fact the Cable was burning his body out, which he talks about when he tells SS that he's running out of time.

That still doesnt discount Deadpool outright stating that SS affected nates powers. Further even after deadpool used the device on Nate, he still made use of telepathic abilities though they had been highly diminished. Therefore just because he used his powers after his fight with SS doesnt prove SS had no affect on them.

Originally posted by Naija boy
That still doesnt discount Deadpool outright stating that SS affected nates powers. Further even after deadpool used the device on Nate, he still made use of telepathic abilities though they had been highly diminished. Therefore just because he used his powers after his fight with SS doesnt prove SS had no affect on them. No, it proves it.

Originally posted by Mindset
No, it proves it.
errr.....how?

Originally posted by Mindset
SS was probably talking about the fact the Cable was burning his body out, which he talks about when he tells SS that he's running out of time.
That was my impression as well.

SS

Originally posted by Raoul
how does that compare?

firestorm < cable? i'm talking about how he's written.

the god cable fight was a decent portrayal of his power, if he really wanted to take him out (ala "kmc style", it would have been total ownage since upgraded or whatever surfer fought teneberous and aegis twice.

classic fought michael korvac, mephisto (in his hell realm), etc

against cable, surfer didn't even approach uni-lord level combat at all, and still triumphed.

I think Surfer wins this fight. Magneto and Graviton don't really bring anything to the table that a determined Surfer hasn't shown the ability to overcome (not saying they aren't powerful, they just don't present an advantage over the Surfer), and I think Surfer would beat Firestorm more times than the other way around.

Cable wasn't trying.

He could have oneshotted SS

cable was burning out, and surfer wasn't trying either.

and surfer could have oneshotted him with those eye beams from the start also.

Maybe, maybe not.

He couldn't.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Further ur analgoy is faulty. HOM Wanda, was a reality warper of the highest order. Reality warping by default is greater than matter manip not in every case.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i'm talking about how he's written.

the god cable fight was a decent portrayal of his power, if he really wanted to take him out (ala "kmc style", it would have been total ownage since upgraded or whatever surfer fought teneberous and aegis twice.

classic fought michael korvac, mephisto (in his hell realm), etc

against cable, surfer didn't even approach uni-lord level combat at all, and still triumphed.

surfer is more often written at a decent level than firestorm, though.

Originally posted by Raoul
surfer is more often written at a decent level than firestorm, though. agreed. jason only began being written decently in IC/the end of his own series. ever since then, he'll have a good showing in a JLA issue every so often, but that's about it.

Originally posted by Raoul
surfer is more often written at a decent level than firestorm, though. Plus he doesn't suck.

Originally posted by Galan007
agreed. jason only began being written decently in IC/the end of his own series. ever since then, he'll have a good showing in a JLA issue every so often, but that's about it.

aye.

Originally posted by Charmander
Plus he doesn't suck.



who's that girl in your sig and avi? i've seen her before but i can't pt my finger on it...

Originally posted by Raoul


who's that girl in your sig and avi? i've seen her before but i can't pt my finger on it... Zooey Deschanel

Originally posted by Charmander
Zooey Deschanel

oh, she was in the Yes Man... now i remember...

Originally posted by Raoul
surfer is more often written at a decent level than firestorm, though. http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3258/ssowningpx0.jpg

^ surfer using his powers offensively like some of those examples above would be a nightmare for most in the high herald class.

Originally posted by Charmander
Zooey Deschanel meh

Originally posted by psycho gundam
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3258/ssowningpx0.jpg

^ surfer using his powers offensively like some of those examples above would be a nightmare for most in the high herald class.

i agree.

never much liked that arc, though lol...

Originally posted by Galan007
not in every case.

True. However RW certainly is greater than matter manip when we are referring to RW at HOM Wandas level.

Originally posted by Naija boy
True. However RW certainly is greater than matter manip when we are referring to RW at HOM Wandas level. agreed.

the reason i said "not in every case" is because when you said that, i immediately thought of solar -

Originally posted by Galan007
agreed.

the reason i said "not in every case" is because when you said that, i immediately thought of solar -

Yeah why i agreed with you. I remember seeing him in a thread and being like whoa.

Magneto, Graviton and Firestom FTW