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Who can do more with their powerset?

Based on past feats? Surfer.

Potentially? Hal.

Originally posted by Raoul
Based on past feats? Surfer.

Potentially? Hal.

I'd also say that if we include only their best feats, including some absolutely wacky PC feats from Hal (which are still canon for him), that it's roughly equal. But Surfer has made more use of his versatility through the years, so it seems more prevalent.

Originally posted by Digi
I'd also say that if we include only their best feats, including some absolutely wacky PC feats from Hal (which are still canon for him), that it's roughly equal. But Surfer has made more use of his versatility through the years, so it seems more prevalent.

Aye. i was thinking the same thing, actually

Surfer.

Definitely surfer

Originally posted by Naija boy
Definitely surfer What do you think Surfer could do that Hal couldn't?

Originally posted by Starscream M
What do you think Surfer could do that Hal couldn't?
Cover his body with cosmic "glaze" while flying naked on a surf board and not have it be considered gay.

Only cause Jack Kirby created him. And because Mobius did some work with Surfer.

Originally posted by Digi
I'd also say that if we include only their best feats, including some absolutely wacky PC feats from Hal (which are still canon for him), that it's roughly equal. But Surfer has made more use of his versatility through the years, so it seems more prevalent.

Hal's PC feats are nuts... basically anything he wanted to do, he did it.
So considering them, I'd say they are more or less equals.

I've always seen that match as a 5/10 split, every time it gets posted.

Originally posted by Starscream M
What do you think Surfer could do that Hal couldn't?

Well there are things like, stripping away the Old power from skaar, (an energy souurce powerful enough to sustain galactus for thousands of years), draining peoples lifeforces,synthesizing the Odinforce,transforming into pure energy,Assimilating with earths core,perceiving all periods and aspects of time simultaneously, Using and manipulating the astral plane, telepathy and other mental powers (he has even been able to affects the thoughts and feelings of evryone on earth simultaneously)etc. All these are things which i dont think current Haljordan is capable of.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Cover his body with cosmic "glaze" while flying naked on a surf board and not have it be considered gay. lmao

Originally posted by Naija boy
Well there are things like, stripping away the Old power from skaar, (an energy souurce powerful enough to sustain galactus for thousands of years), draining peoples lifeforces,synthesizing the Odinforce,transforming into pure energy,Assimilating with earths core,perceiving all periods and aspects of time simultaneously, Using and manipulating the astral plane, telepathy and other mental powers (he has even been able to affects the thoughts and feelings of evryone on earth simultaneously)etc. All these are things which i dont think current Haljordan is capable of. don't forget his cosmic awareness, half the universe's population was erased and he felt it.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
don't forget his cosmic awareness, half the universe's population was erased and he felt it.
Nothing Ben Kenobi couldn't do. biscuits

not if his miticlorians (spelling lol) are mutated/deactivated.

That's kind of hard not to sense. If he didn't sense that, then his cosmic awareness would be worth jack shit.

"perceiving all periods and aspects of time simultaneously" I smell something wrong here. Scans?

And Hal probably has feats that Surfer could not do. Like storm through the GLC in Emerald Twilight. Or outwill their own death. Or any of the crazy (still canon) PC shit.

the thing about "PC" stuff is that it was completely ridiculous, if hal was stronger now than he was back then, he still wouldn't do those things like he did in the pc days since the writing was bad.

for example: pc luthor can take down pc superman with iirc an orange, flashlight, and a can. is that a testament to lex's mind or the fact that pc era comics were for kids?

Both. 313

they didn't care back in those days, only the forth world stuff was brilliant. hence the crisis.

Based on past feats? Surfer.

Potentially? Surfer.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

"perceiving all periods and aspects of time simultaneously" I smell something wrong here. Scans?


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5396951

You're doing it wrong, you're supposed to just link him to the respect thread.

If we take into account all feats, both pre and post crisis, they're about equal. Hal has some telepathy feats, energy drainage, evolve/devolve beings, stopping and manipulating time, converting beings into pure energy, teleportation, cosmic tracking, manipulating magic and all forms of energy, battling while being unconscious, etc... the ring can basically do anything.

Green Lanterns were affected by the crisis now?

They both seem able to do pretty much whatever a plot requires...though I'm inclined to rank Hal as more versatile if only because a planet-finder (Surfer's original job: why he was created) shouldn't really require wide-ranging versatility, whereas versatility is pretty much the whole point of the ring.

Originally posted by Mindship
They both seem able to do pretty much whatever a plot requires...though I'm inclined to rank Hal as more versatile if only because a planet-finder (Surfer's original job: why he was created) shouldn't really require wide-ranging versatility, whereas versatility is pretty much the whole point of the ring.

Seriously, considering teleportation and cosmic awareness, the entire purpose of Galactus' heralds are lost on me xD

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Seriously, considering teleportation and cosmic awareness, the entire purpose of Galactus' heralds are lost on me xD Jack Kirby's initial reasoning for a herald of a space god makes sense emotionally. But yeah, wouldn't it make more sense logically for a being like Galactus to send out, say, millions or billions of planet-finding probes, rather than send out one guy at a time to scour the whole universe?

In any event, a planet-finder basically needs:
- awareness to find the planet.
- transit speed to get there and check it out further.
- basic offense and defense (eg, shields, bolts) to soften up any resistance (here's where immense brute power is handy).
- a way to signal the Devourer.

their versatility is about equals i think..

Originally posted by Mindset
You're doing it wrong, you're supposed to just link him to the respect thread.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Green Lanterns were affected by the crisis now?
I don't think they were officially, but there's still an obvious change. It's sorta like Super Skrull's anti-matter blasts or Wonder Man's growing and shapeshifting abilities(or his being close to Thor in strength for that matter), they were never technically taken away but it's been so long since we've seen them...

Personally I'm torn on the matter. I don't like the idea of tossing out feats that are still in continuity, but I can see a lot of reason to doubt their validity.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Green Lanterns were affected by the crisis now?

not in my book.

Originally posted by Naija boy
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5396951

Nice, but not something I can't see a GL doing.

And since the Guardians and CPB were imprisoned during COIE by Anti-Monitor, that part was not affected. Hell, look how they referenced the "last time you imprisoned us."

Mindship: it's an act of compassion. The herald is to warn people Galactus is coming so they have time to flee if possible. Galactus doesn't try to eat as much as possible, just enough to stave off the hunger.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest


Mindship: it's an act of compassion. yet he created Terrax and Morg...two ruthless killers for heralds?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Nice, but not something I can't see a GL doing.

And since the Guardians and CPB were imprisoned during COIE by Anti-Monitor, that part was not affected. Hell, look how they referenced the "last time you imprisoned us."

Mindship: it's an act of compassion. The herald is to warn people Galactus is coming so they have time to flee if possible. Galactus doesn't try to eat as much as possible, just enough to stave off the hunger.

..............Yeah im sure u can see a gl doing it. However what u see a gl doing is pretty irrelevant if they HAVENT done it. So please bring up a feat that a gl has done (preferrably post crisis so we can compare SS to current gls) that is similar to it or that shows they have this sort of ability. If not.............then we cant just assume they can do it just because we think or wish they could.

Anyhow, as i said in my earlier post, Surfer is definitely more versatile than gls (especially post crisis) and nothing has been shown to indicate otherwise.

The current GL are pretty weak. SS>Current Hal.

The crisis didn't really effect a gl's ability to be versatile or tampered with their power levels. I haven't seen surfer do anything that a top tier GL hasn't.

But the fact that Superman's feats were lowered effectively lowered everyone else.

Superman is the root of all evil.

Originally posted by Mindship
Jack Kirby's initial reasoning for a herald of a space god makes sense emotionally. But yeah, wouldn't it make more sense logically for a being like Galactus to send out, say, millions or billions of planet-finding probes, rather than send out one guy at a time to scour the whole universe?

In any event, a planet-finder basically needs:
- awareness to find the planet.
- transit speed to get there and check it out further.
- basic offense and defense (eg, shields, bolts) to soften up any resistance (here's where immense brute power is handy).
- a way to signal the Devourer.

The minute you see a planet-finding probe that would potentially summon a world-eating God to your front porch, you wouldn't try to destroy it?

I think the power level required to be able to stomp out any kind of resistance before the coming of Galactus needed for him to create Heralds empowered by the PC.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
don't forget his cosmic awareness, half the universe's population was erased and he felt it.

Hal has cosmic awareness as well. he even knew Superman's origin before he did! Hal has also controlled spirits, able to freely move through time, SENSE Psychic vibrations, beat down one of the most powerful telepaths in comics (hector), manipulate energy (EM, magnetic, even abstracts like emotions, etc...)

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Hal has cosmic awareness as well. he even knew Superman's origin before he did! Hal has also controlled spirits, able to freely move through time, SENSE Psychic vibrations, beat down one of the most powerful telepaths in comics (hector), manipulate energy (EM, magnetic, even abstracts like emotions, etc...)

Surfer has done all these too.

that's why their versatility is about equals..

I know. I never said he couldn't. like i said, if we take into account ALL feats, pre or post, it's about even.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
that's why their versatility is about equals..

exactly.

Has Hal ever healed other ppl's injuries before? Permanently empowered others to create life? Create permanent objects with exotic powers?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Has Hal ever healed other ppl's injuries before?

yes, he has. even his teammates. hal was infected with a virus and basically got rid of it. Hal has even willed himself to live.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
yes, he has. even his teammates. hal was infected with a virus and basically got rid of it. Hal has even willed himself to live.

Heal injuries, not cure diseases/viruses. Two different things entirely. I ask this cuz I've always thought healing is the fuction of the blue ring. Does Hal carry the blue ring now?

And yes, Surfer has cured infections as well. Heck, he's even managed to heal computer viruses.

Also, can Hal convert matter into energy and energy into real (non-construct) matter. Surfer has done that.

If the ring could do that, then what's the point of the damned lantern thingie that they use to recharge?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Also, can Hal convert matter into energy and energy into real (non-construct) matter. Surfer has done that.

If the ring could do that, then what's the point of the damned lantern thingie that they use to recharge?

something like turning energy into confetti? Hal has done that. i can try and find more examples if you want.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Heal injuries, not cure diseases/viruses. Two different things entirely. I ask this cuz I've always thought healing is the fuction of the blue ring. Does Hal carry the blue ring now?

And yes, Surfer has cured infections as well. Heck, he's even managed to heal computer viruses.

this was a long time ago, so it's pre crisis feat. he healed a bunch of teammates in an issue of JLA.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
something like turning energy into confetti? Hal has done that. i can try and find more examples if you want.

That doesn't mean those things are permanent. Surfer has been able to create permanent items with exotic powers before (as when he created one for Doom) w/c is a far cry from energy confetti.

Also, has Hal ever permanently empowered OTHERS with exotic powers?

Has Hal ever created life (even plant life)?

Also, I'll love to see the scan of the healing feat if possible please.

I'd like to see Hal be able to power himself without the lantern thingie (through absorption of ambient light, conversion of matter to energy, etc.) like the Surfer could. I think Surfer has got him trumped in this department.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
That doesn't mean those things are permanent. Surfer has been able to create permanent items with exotic powers before (as when he created one for Doom) w/c is a far cry from energy confetti.

Also, has Hal ever permanently empowered OTHERS with exotic powers?

Has Hal ever created life (even plant life)?

Also, I'll love to see the scan of the healing feat if possible please.

I'd like to see Hal be able to power himself without the lantern thingie (through absorption of ambient light, conversion of matter to energy, etc.) like the Surfer could. I think Surfer has got him trumped in this department.

They were real and permanent in the story.

Check out these scans from these 2 respect threads. this is just SOME of the stuff Hal and other GL's can do.

http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=132452

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/topics/61894p1.html

hopefully this helps, bud.

Silver Surfer versatility is among top. It's just that his raw power can't compare to his versatility. Don't get me wrong. Silver Surfer is very powerful, but his versatility of powers is better than his brute raw power.
He can do many things, but not to very big scope as some others cosmic beings.

damn, i love this feat. shows that the ring doesn't really have limits. not only does hal jordan NEGATE Myrwheddon's MAGIC, but the ring has an entire world inside of it!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/GreenLantern026-22.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/GreenLantern026-23.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/GreenLantern026-24.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/GreenLantern026-28.jpg

Originally posted by Prep-Man
They were real and permanent in the story.

Check out these scans from these 2 respect threads. this is just SOME of the stuff Hal and other GL's can do.

http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=132452

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/topics/61894p1.html

hopefully this helps, bud.

Check out the scans from this respect thread. This is just SOME stuff the Surfer can do.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t459252.html

See? I can throw around respect threads too!

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Has Hal ever healed other ppl's injuries before? Permanently empowered others to create life? Create permanent objects with exotic powers?

yes, he has.

GL v4 #12, he tells the ring to repair his own tissue damage, which it does.

couple more iirc, but i need to check issue numbers...

With PC feats. Hal is more versatile then the Surfer. Reason is, besides the massive matter/energy manipulation feats, having the power to create a construct to address the situation is incredibly handy.

With out PC feats, Silver Surfer edges out. Since Hal has not bin written, to the degree of brokenness he has prior CoIE.


Speaking of, I would love to see Dr. Doom wield a GL ring or equivalent. He would be able to basically reproduce all of technology through constructs. peaches

Originally posted by Raoul
yes, he has.

GL v4 #12, he tells the ring to repair his own tissue damage, which it does.

couple more iirc, but i need to check issue numbers...

His OWN tissue damage. I said OTHER ppl's injuries.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
His OWN tissue damage. I said OTHER ppl's injuries.

if he tells the ring to do it, though, does it make a difference?

he says "ring, stitch me up."

i doubt there's much difference if he says "ring, stitch ______ up"

also, not sure if it applies, but about four issues later, he creates a hospital room with his ring to keep jill pearlman's vitals stable.

Originally posted by Raoul
if he tells the ring to do it, though, does it make a difference?

he says "ring, stitch me up."

i doubt there's much difference if he says "ring, stitch ______ up"

also, not sure if it applies, but about four issues later, he creates a hospital room with his ring to keep jill pearlman's vitals stable.

Yes, it matters. Nova can do self-repair himself, but he can't repair others.

Why didn't he just heal jill pealman?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Yes, it matters. Nova can do self-repair himself, but he can't repair others.

Why didn't he just heal jill pealman?

because about five seconds after he created the hospital room, he got attacked yet again. ill show you the scans, one min...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/scansnstuff/th_GreenLanter16-017.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/scansnstuff/th_GreenLanter16-018.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/scansnstuff/th_GreenLanter16-019.jpg

and there's no evidence to suggest he can't heal others. during the arc where he stitches himself up, he also destroys nanites within the systems of other green lanterns. leezle pon (sp?), a GL version of the smallpox virus, kills a sinestro corps virus inside guy gardner in GL 25.

Yo.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
the thing about "PC" stuff is that it was completely ridiculous, if hal was stronger now than he was back then, he still wouldn't do those things like he did in the pc days since the writing was bad.

just curious: has Hal done anything in the pre-C era that U *wouldnt* think twice about if Surfer did it??

cuz it seems to me that alot of ppl hold pre-C GLs to a differing standard than they do heralds, even tho their abilities were basically the same (and from the jump, since a GL was SUPPOSED TO be able to "do anything" from Showcase #22 on.......)

Originally posted by psycho gundam
for example: pc luthor can take down pc superman with iirc an orange, flashlight, and a can. is that a testament to lex's mind or the fact that pc era comics were for kids?

granted, some of that WAS ridiculous if U tried to make sense of it, however (IMNSHO) most of those "feats" were in the '50s - early '70s.......and Im pretty damn sure we could find a good number of moments like that for Reed, Doom and the like; its not like DC had a monopoly on ridiculousness.




Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
His OWN tissue damage. I said OTHER ppl's injuries.

would U take that as an indicator that he *cant* do it??




Tazer

Versatility goes to Hal, power goes to the Surfer.

How does versatility go to Hal?

Originally posted by Mindset
How does versatility go to Hal?

Well as you have seen, all GL's can make any variety of energy construct that their minds can imagine. This is why they get the nod for being more versatile. The Surfer may also be able to create solid light constructs but I have yet to see him do this on the level or as easily as Gl's or someone in possession of the Q bands.

Like I said before Hal is more versatile while the Surfer is more powerful.

Energy constructs...really, that's what makes them more versatile?

I feel like smacking you.

Well perhaps you should define versatility to me. I weas comparing the two the same way that I would compare Plastic Man to Mr. Fantastic, one of these guys is physically more versatile than the other.

If we were to compare all of the things that Hal could do with the ring and compare all of the things that the Surfer has done, Hal comes out looking to be the one who is more versatile.

They can both exceed light speed, they are both class 100's in their own respects, so how do can I say that Hal get the nod? Well energy manipulation is all I've got.

Originally posted by Mindset
Energy constructs...really, that's what makes them more versatile?

I feel like smacking you. Reported for an e threat.

Originally posted by Stoic
If we were to compare all of the things that Hal could do with the ring and compare all of the things that the Surfer has done, Hal comes out looking to be the one who is more versatile.

Then we ask you.

"Why are you comparing what Hal CAN do to what the Surfer HAS done, instead of comparing what Hal HAS done to what the Surfer HAS done"

i hate fanboys

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i hate boys
I could tell that about you.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i hate fanboys Why? They make this place fun. How fun would it be if everyone were reasonable and got along.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I could tell that about you.


....i love u though eny

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why? They make this place fun. How fun would it be if everyone were reasonable and got along.
Quan, that's why the mods keep you here

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Then we ask you.

"Why are you comparing what Hal CAN do to what the Surfer HAS done, instead of comparing what Hal HAS done to what the Surfer HAS done"


Because from where I'm sitting it would take everything that the Surfer has done in his entire history to compare with how easily Hal manipulates energy. I've never really thought that the Surfer should have ever been compared to Hal in the first place.

One of these guys is a pure powerhouse while the other can be compared to a precision instrument, Hal has simply showed that he can do more with his powers than the Surfer can.

Am I saying that Hal would win a majority if he fought the Surfer? No, only that he can use his power with more flavors added to it than the Surfer.

This as I attempted to point out earlier is the only way for me to determine who is more versatile.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
....i love u though eny
Likewise, Sin.

Yo.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Quan, that's why the mods keep you here

BURN!!




Tazer

Originally posted by Stoic
Because from where I'm sitting it would take everything that the Surfer has done in his entire history to compare with how easily Hal manipulates energy. I've never really thought that the Surfer should have ever been compared to Hal in the first place.

One of these guys is a pure powerhouse while the other can be compared to a precision instrument, Hal has simply showed that he can do more with his powers than the Surfer can.

Am I saying that Hal would win a majority if he fought the Surfer? No, only that he can use his power with more flavors added to it than the Surfer.

This as I attempted to point out earlier is the only way for me to determine who is more versatile.
You're basing all of this off Surfer not using energy constructs? Because he has you know(he once surrounded Ego with a large energy net). He might not have shown as much in the way of energy constructs as Hal, but then again Hal's hasn't shown anywhere near as much in the way of things like Matter Manipulation as Surfer.

hal has shown all types of matter manipulation. everything from changing the composition of his body to evolving and devolving super beings.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
hal has shown all types of matter manipulation. everything from changing the composition of his body to evolving and devolving super beings.
I'm not saying that Hal doesn't have many, I'm saying that Surfer has a lot more.

really? what's the score? hal 17, surfer 81?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
really? what's the score? hal 17, surfer 81?
I'm not sure on the score because Jorden's feats of matter transmutation are much harder to find than Surfers .

Fair enough. That doesn't make Surfer more versatile, though.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Fair enough. That doesn't make Surfer more versatile, though.
I never said he was.

Originally posted by Raoul
Based on past feats? Surfer.

Potentially? Hal.
I agree.
.......
In a straight up fight Surfer could counter most if not all Jordan's abilities/attacks IMO.

gl's can counter attacks too. remember in brave and bold a weapon had the ability to counter ANY attack. Hal then countered it.

Apparently, it couldn't.

because the rings are that good.

And the fact that the device couldn't counter any attack.

That was the weapons claim to analyze any foe and come up with a way to counter them. hals ring actually replicates it and throws it right back. pretty sweet feat.

I don't disagree.

But it can't counter any attack.

Originally posted by Stoic
Because from where I'm sitting it would take everything that the Surfer has done in his entire history to compare with how easily Hal manipulates energy. I've never really thought that the Surfer should have ever been compared to Hal in the first place.

One of these guys is a pure powerhouse while the other can be compared to a precision instrument, Hal has simply showed that he can do more with his powers than the Surfer can.

Am I saying that Hal would win a majority if he fought the Surfer? No, only that he can use his power with more flavors added to it than the Surfer.

This as I attempted to point out earlier is the only way for me to determine who is more versatile.

THis logic is faulty. First of all using energy constrcts is not the only way to manipulate energy. Therefore it is false to believe that Hals energy manipulation is superior to Surfers just because he can create more constructs and what have you. Surfer has numerous feats in that regard that surpass Hals. Further there are numerous other areas in which surfer is more impressive than Hal such as matter manip,psionic abilities etc. If we take those into account, they outweigh the energy manip advantage u believe Hal has (which he doesnt have anyway).

If no one is against PC feats, lets match up Hal/Norrin feat for feat.


Whose game?

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

would U take that as an indicator that he *cant* do it??

Tazer

No, I would take it as an indicator that there is yet a need to present proof that he *can* do it. Like I said, Nova can do self-repair, but he can't repair others.

Originally posted by Raoul
and there's no evidence to suggest he can't heal others. during the arc where he stitches himself up, he also destroys nanites within the systems of other green lanterns. leezle pon (sp?), a GL version of the smallpox virus, kills a sinestro corps virus inside guy gardner in GL 25.

Well, I can't prove a negative. I thought we went by feats here? It's not up to me to claim that he *can't* do it more than it is for you to prove that he can.

Like I said, curing diseases is different from fixing tissue damage. Supreme was able to cure cancer with his eye lasers but (in the same page) couldn't fix the tissue damage he inflicted on Kid Supreme.

Also, I've reviewed the page, if he could heal tissue damage, why didn't he just heal her? Why bother with putting up a stretcher and crying over her injured body?

Originally posted by id369
If no one is against PC feats, lets match up Hal/Norrin feat for feat.


Whose game?

Some of those feats are just insane.