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Hi everyone. Hope you are well. I posted something similar in another thread but feel it deserves one of it's own.
http://www.jamescamerononline.com/T3special.htm
What are your thoughts on this link?After reading it is just obvious that T3 is nothing but a rehash of T2.T3 even has the same camera angles and shots in some instances.Im not judging whether its good or bad,it justplayed way too much homage to T2 when it could have been a great film on it's own.Actually at times Terminator 3 almost plays like a parody of T2.I would appreciate your feedback. Thank you

I did feel like it was a spoof at times, but there were moments where T3 actually has original ideas.

T850 being controlled by TX was pretty cool, though it could've been way better.

The crane scene, the toilet smash and other action scenes were awesome.

The whole Arnie keeping them alive for the future, was pretty awesome, I thought, and was kinda like the same ending to T1, but in a good way.

I do believe it is too much like JD, and that's quite embarrasing.

T2 and T3 both follow the same formula and ideas set from the movie previous. The only problem with T3 is that not only is it copying T2, but copying T3 and therefore having barely any originality itself.

It's the more quieter and darker scenes in T3 that appeal to me and that I think are the better moments. It's just a shame that the comedy aspect of it overshadows those parts.

Thanks for your great feedback so far guys.The slapstick humour of T3 i could have done without and the 'nodding and winking' back to T2. "Talk to the Hand" and the Elton John glasses were a bit too much for me. It is almost embarassing.But i do enjoy T3 for what it is and that is an entertaining summer action movie.And it does have its good points.I think the crane chase sequence through Hollywood is a great set-piece and the end was a pretty touching moment imo.They knew they couldn't make another classic like T2, so they stuck to their strengths.

Even though it undeniably tramples continuity in places, it enhances it in others:
Sarah's cancer explains why she wasn't a prominant figure in the war, and the implication that she was diagnosed before T2 makes her mental state more understandable. I always thought she was reckless to ever get caught by the police, but now it seems like she acted out of desperation after she realised she couldn't protect her son for much longer.
John living off the grid makes more sense of the timetravel. He only appeared on the radar once, in 1995. Skynet send the T1000 after him, then the T800 after Sarah shortly before she disappears. The TX is sent to ensure the rise of the machines and to take out other targets.
It shows how John survives Judgement Day.

The underlying themes of purpose and destiny aren't as well executed as they would have been under Cameron, but they resonate and are fitting. Arnie is restored to the machine he is, and can be seen as such by John after the relationship they had previously. Seeds are planted for John's progression in the future. For the single timeline to work, he must believe in destiny and fight to ensure it all plays out as it should. I believe he'd eventually die for that. Thanks for reading and i'd appreciate your thoughts.

I agree. T3 does shine in places, and the continuity really ruined it for me. It just goes back to it being made by Cameron. Though, the ending and beginning were pretty cool. I don't get why John was drinking beer, but whatever.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I agree. T3 does shine in places, and the continuity really ruined it for me. It just goes back to it being made by Cameron. Though, the ending and beginning were pretty cool. I don't get why John was drinking beer, but whatever.

The John in T3, to me, seems depressed. He is living to fulfill his destiny, but you get the sense he'd rather be dead, after all he threatens to kill himself. I guess he was just drowning his sorrows and probably reflecting on his life, what's to come and the death of his mother. He looks in deep thought before dropping the bottle.

Originally posted by barand1
The John in T3, to me, seems depressed. He is living to fulfill his destiny, but you get the sense he'd rather be dead, after all he threatens to kill himself. I guess he was just drowning his sorrows and probably reflecting on his life, what's to come and the death of his mother. He looks in deep thought before dropping the bottle. Yeah, but how can you buy beer if you're hiding?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Yeah, but how can you buy beer if you're hiding?

I guess he was being paid cash for helping out on building sites (as shown), or he could of just stole it.

Originally posted by barand1
I guess he was being paid cash for helping out on building sites (as shown), or he could of just stole it. Buying with a fake ID?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Buying with a fake ID?

Could well of done. I don't know, lol, just using my imagination.

Hi guys. How are you?Don't get me wrong, i enjoy T3 for what it is;a respectable summer action movie.It's just that it isn't a James Cameron film. And i can see that every time i watch it.However i think Jonathan Mostow did a competent job. He had some pretty big shoes to fill plus the masterpiece that is Terminator 2 to follow up.Mostow will have had intense pressure to recreate shots to pay homage to the previous classics.The style was well-established and well-known. He had very few options and followed the previous installments well with the material he was handed.What are your thoughts?Thanks

I think T3 represents the time it's set in very well.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I think T3 represents the time it's set in very well.

In what sense?

The technical advancement of the time and the apocolypse feel, it seems very now imo.

Originally posted by lord xyz
The technical advancement of the time and the apocolypse feel, it seems very now imo.

Ah yes, I agree.

Some of those comparisons skipped out on stuff to make the match.

There were things that are kind of both references and themes of the movies. Both the previous terminators had motorcycle chases and big truck chases. Sometimes at the same time. I wouldn't have it any other way. Also, shotguns. Now that I think of it, the Terminator series is probably the single greatest factor in shaping my Grand Theft Auto playstyle.

Did the Arnold model always skid out on his motorcycle? I know he did it in the second one.

He always stole his clothes from some belligerent dude, though in the third one it was more humorous. Someone always has a run in with the cops when they arrive in our time.

Hi hows. Thank you again for all your great feedback.

I think T3 just felt like an updated version of T2.Nothing new except for the ballsey ending which played with all the built up summer movie expectations of how a third act ends. T3 for me lacked the disturbing images and visions of the future atomic holocaust. Sarah Connor's dreams in T2 especially made it such a realistic menace to me, it was frightening.What do you think?Thank you very much. Have a good day guys.

Hi again. Here is some Jonathan Mostow quotes.

"The heart of the film is the story." -

"I would say that if there was one person I'd be nervous about showing this movie to, it's him (James Cameron)." -

"Linda Hamilton is too important to the franchise to stick her in as the third wheel. So then I realized, you know what, it's actually better if she's not in the movie." -

"Biologically, yes, he is John Connor and he's the same person technically, but from a character point of view, he's a very different character now. So I felt I wanted to throw out all assumptions and start from scratch and say who's the best actor to play this part." -


What do you think of the above quotes?I agree on his comment about Linda Hamilton.As T3 focused on John and Kate , Sarah's role wouldn't have been major.And she is too great a character to just have like a cameo or something in T3.I thought the coffin full of guns was a nice touch.Thanks for reading. I look forward to your thoughts.

I agree with not having Sarah Connor in the movie. The guns in the coffin though was a very Sarah Connor move. I could almost call it better than a cameo because it maintains her status as an action mom.

Aaaand, I can agree with not having Edward Furlong as John in the 3rd one. He made a great punk kid but now he looks like a punk adult, and eerily like Helena Bonham Carter, who coincidentally was in Salvation.

Going back to the rehash thing, I decided to watch Terminator and I noticed the second movie had a lot of references back to the first movie. It occurred to me that maybe makers of the 3rd tried to mimic this but fell short on some points. I kind of have a little more respect for it. Even though it didn't quite live up to the first two movies I can see what they were going for.

I would've wanted Sarah in this film.

Something like, a flashback where she's taken away again, but John manages to escape.

Only this time, she actually doesn't believe in the Terminators, and when they come back, John has to remind her of everything, but it's too late, and then the film is all about John becoming the protector of the human race. Like, this is the film where he becomes a man.

In the same way Sarah went from naive to badass and John in T2 went from a brat to a decent kid.

Why would she not believe in Terminators?

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Why would she not believe in Terminators? Her therapy worked.

In MIIB Agent K forgot all about aliens, and it worked, in my eyes.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Her therapy worked.

In MIIB Agent K forgot all about aliens, and it worked, in my eyes.
But they used super advanced brainwashing devices to do that, not therapy.

They could of put Sarah in a coma perhaps after her cancer spread to her brain? When she woke up she forgot certain things, or everything. Just an idea, not sure if it's plausible.

How action capable are people who have enough cancer in their brain that it causes brain damage?

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
But they used super advanced brainwashing devices to do that, not therapy. Oh, well then they brainwashed Sarah Conner.

Originally posted by barand1
They could of put Sarah in a coma perhaps after her cancer spread to her brain? When she woke up she forgot certain things, or everything. Just an idea, not sure if it's plausible. It could work. Just the idea of refreshing someone's memory up until the point they realise their mission and become badass is awesome.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
How action capable are people who have enough cancer in their brain that it causes brain damage?

I have no idea... but maybe during surgery things went wrong

Hi guys. Thanks for all the great feedback. Sorry i have been away for a few days.T2 was INTENDED to be a revised more up to date version of T1. Even James Cameron said it. The similarities between T1 and T2 were intentional.



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Terminator 1984 was done out of an imagination process of James Cameron. He had limited resources and he could only do a very limited version of his vision.

A few Box Office hits later he was established as a great action director and he decided to revisit his "baby" project once more. With brand new resources and more artistic freedom he was able to do T2. He did what was possibly the best "reboot" ever. He took the basic elements from his 1984 movie and did it Not exactly the same, but similar.

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There is no argument here.

In Simpler terms.....

He made T1 and later since he had a much bigger budget and more SFX he made what he thought was a better version of T1. He did not made an official "remake" but he mainly made a better version of it.

Similar to what George Miller did with Mad Max and The Road Warrior.

Jonathon Mostow in the other hand along with producers and writers decided to cash in on Terminator 2's popularity and set out to recreate the glorious hit from 1991. You see James Cameron's a real mastermind and ARTIST in every sense of the word. He himself said that the similarirites in T2 are like rhymes in a poem to the first movie, done intentionally of course to mirror them but not be the same.

What's your source on this information?

Thank you for all the feedback. Okay back on topic. I posted this a while ago but feel it belongs here too.When i say T3 is a rip-off of T2,Im not judging wheter its good or bad, that was intentional from the producers since T2 was such a well acclaimed hit, so they wanted more of that.Even Vajna and Kassar admiteed to it, saying they wanted to recreate their glorious hit.I always felt t3's greatest weakness was that it played way too much homage to T2 when it could have been a great film on it's own. I actually enjoyed it for what it is. The only thing that kills it is the overload of humor.Plus no Linda Hamilton. I really missed her in T3.I would have loved to have seen her go out in a blaze of glory in T3 rather than being killed of with cancer which i thought was kind of weak for such an iconic character. She should have been the one holding those blast doors open for John ands Kate.Anyway thanks again

That pretty much sums up every terminator fan's opinion.

Honestly, anyone who hates T3, isn't a fan of Terminator at all.

Originally posted by LindaHamilton32
Thank you for all the feedback. Okay back on topic. I posted this a while ago but feel it belongs here too.When i say T3 is a rip-off of T2,Im not judging wheter its good or bad, that was intentional from the producers since T2 was such a well acclaimed hit, so they wanted more of that.Even Vajna and Kassar admiteed to it, saying they wanted to recreate their glorious hit.
Source?


I think I like the coffin thing more than any kind of blaze of glory I can think of, especially for a 45~ year old woman. Maybe it's just me. I like the brains over brawn.

Originally posted by lord xyz
That pretty much sums up every terminator fan's opinion.

Honestly, anyone who hates T3, isn't a fan of Terminator at all.

Hi there. How are you today?Don't get me wrong i like T3 for what it is and that is a respectable summer action movie. The crane chase sequence throught LA in particular is a great action set-piece.IMO it is not the masterpiece that is Terminator 2 but there's enough heart in it.My biggest beef as i have said before was the slapstick humour. I thought it was too far.But i also liked:
- The action was nicely done and had great effects.
- Stahl as John Connor was good. He really looked like the child of Linda Hamilton and Michael Biehn.
- Great opening (didn't miss the credits) and ending.
- Tightly paced and short so it never got bogged down.

I just wish it wasn't so reliant on the T2 formula that is all.And Linda Hamilton had reprised Sarah. Thanks for reading.Hope you have a good day.

Terminator 1984 was done out of an imagination process of James Cameron. He had limited resources and he could only do a very limited version of his vision.

A few Box Office hits later he was established as a great action director and he decided to revisit his "baby" project once more. With brand new recources and more artistic freedom he was able to do T2. He did what was possibly the best "reboot" ever. He took the basic elements from his 1984 movie and did it Not exactly the same, but similar.

Then comes Mostow and decides to do his own version of T2.

You have to see that he practically did the entire movie shot by shot.

Here they are and have in mind that the order of these avents is the SAME in T2 and T3.

1. Future War vision at beginning of movie - Check
2. 2 Terminators arriving at night in different locations - Check
3. T-800/850 getting his clothes (leather biker style) from a Bar playing music - Check
4. T-800/850 getting sunglasses - Check
5. After some dialogue to establish characters we have a Slo-Mo scene of T-800/850 walking towards John as he "does not know" if he's there to kill him - Check
6. Big truck chase sequence where the Bad Guy has the upper hand in terms of Size - Check
7. Cue John's impending doom at the hand of the Bad Guy as the T-800/850 saves him at the last moment causing the Big Truck to explode in a very "spectacular" way - Check
8. John and Terminator are trapped in a location surrounded by cops - Check
9. Let the terminator have a BIG gun to "deal" with the cops although he does not kill anyone - Check
10. In the middle of their escape the Bad Guy finds them escaping their location and starts to pursue inflicting grave damage to John's vehicle - Check

After that there are many similarities but each one had their own ending to attend (thank God).

But as you see the "Mostow" version of T2 is very lame, campy and did not provided anything new to the franchise. In fact it actually created bigger holes than ever.

I agree, there is a lot to pick from. I still like it.

Originally posted by LindaHamilton32
Terminator 1984 was done out of an imagination process of James Cameron. He had limited resources and he could only do a very limited version of his vision.

A few Box Office hits later he was established as a great action director and he decided to revisit his "baby" project once more. With brand new recources and more artistic freedom he was able to do T2. He did what was possibly the best "reboot" ever. He took the basic elements from his 1984 movie and did it Not exactly the same, but similar.
SOOOURRRRRRRRCE?


This isn't music theory, or a fine sauce to be poured on noodles. That comparison, like the one on the website, butchers both movie plots and reduces them down to make the matches. I'm not saying they aren't very similar, but you're just trying way too hard.

Hi Doctor-Alvis how are you? THanks for your feedback.

There are similar situations for the new characters, and thats it - and THATS the echoing theme. In case of T3, it has identical storyline, plot and even the order of the story to the point where you can tell both movies with one description. Thats a completely different thing
T1 was a love story about a soldier with sucky life and pushed around goofy waitress, which showed evolution of both characters. T2 was about paternal love between mother and son and her struggle with her sanity, morality and feelings, as well as a story of human life with two "robots' going at it. Those are completely different movies, and like I said T2 only has about 4 elements like that. And they all have purpose. for example, the 'death' of the T-800. Cameron's goal here was to create the same scene with Sarah killing the T-800 with the press of a button, but this time to feel pathos and sadness instead of relief and satisfaction. Sam characters and same move, yet a complete turntable on the emotions. Brilliant move if you ask me, very nicely done. And again, those moves are equivalent to rhymes in the poem

This is a very commonly heard miscinception and misunderstanding. Thats why I sometimes I prefer for Cameron to just go with straight ahead movie rather than packing artistic and literary elements to it. See, this is one of the things that blew me away when we were dissecting T2 when I was studying screenwriting and then filmmaking at the NY Film Academy. He doesnt repeat or remake the first movie. What it is its echoing theme - finding the same situation but slightly altered and with different characters, mirroring same events but with different outcome. Its another literary device used in filmaking. very tricky to use and personally for me was the toughest cause its really hard to make it work. Its ALSO on T2 commentary, and there its explained even more and compared to rhymes in the poem. Star Wars is another example of a story built on echoing theme. Lucas goes into even more details about echoing themes/story rhymes on EI DVD featurettes as well as DVD commentary for EII.thats why I sometimes wonder if it wouldnt be better for Cameron to just make his movies simplier since 90% of the population dont know about rhymes and artistic nuances like that. I just think its a wasted effort. Thats waht the UK professor sdaid when Cameron was being given the Dr title, that 90% of the population isnt intelligent enought to get his movies.Not only most people wonty see it and wont notice any of the subliminal touches (same goes for sound - for example, theres an actual Lion's growl when the truck is closing in during the final highway chase in T2, subliminaly signaling the feel of danger), but theyll also think its a rehash or lazy writing or copying. *sight*. And story rhymes are the hardest to do , at least were for me. Oh well.

Btw, if any of you want to know more about those so called rhymes, let me know. Plenty of people dont know anything about them and take them for copying instead, so I might do a feature on it and collect quotes about them from Lucas, Spielberg and Cameron

Btw, Mostow on the T3 commentary says he doesnt even know why terminators come back naked

I don't want to know about rhymes in movies, I want a source on James Cameron saying he made Terminator 2 as a redo of Terminator 1. I don't want your analysis, I want a link to a video or an article or something where he says it.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
I don't want to know about rhymes in movies, I want a source on James Cameron saying he made Terminator 2 as a redo of Terminator 1. I don't want your analysis, I want a link to a video or an article or something where he says it.

Hi. Thanks for your reply. Most of my info i got from here:
http://jamescamerononline.com/

Here are some things i would have liked in T3.
- Narration from Linda Hamilton. I understand Linda turning it down and her character being dead, but if she can lend her voice to Terminator Salvation, she could've done so here.
- Took out the painful slapstick comedy e.g talk to the hand
- Music themes at atmosphere from the first two movies, including the blue tint.
- Shortening or skipping the whole clothes acquiring scenes altogether. We know the drill by now.
- Not seeing so many painful mistakes (age of John/Sarah Connor, machine takeover of cars, the damn tail number on the plane, etc.)

What do you think? I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Originally posted by LindaHamilton32
Hi. Thanks for your reply. Most of my info i got from here:
http://jamescamerononline.com/
Where on this site? Is it an official statement? Because this is a fansite and not associated with James Cameron directly.


I can see your point on most of those bullets but the "painful mistakes" list seems more nitpicking than anything else. The worst one for me would probably be the taking over of cars. I don't know much about cars so I don't know if maybe they have vehicles that steer and throttle electronically. Tail numbers on the plane though? What? Are you complaining about the plane's registry or whatever the crap goes on the tail? Unless the numbers are formed by etchings of gay sex, I don't think they matter.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Unless the numbers are formed by etchings of gay sex, I don't think they matter.

Ha, what does that mean?


LindaHamilton32 - Hello again. I'm aware that the numbers on the airplane's tail are not consistant in each shot, but neither is the number plate on the police car that is used in T2 when escaping from the hospital. Things like this shouldn't be a worry. It's is for me at least. After all, I don't study the number plates in films.

Originally posted by barand1
Ha, what does that mean?
You know, like instead of just numbers it's pornography in the shape of numbers.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
You know, like instead of just numbers it's pornography in the shape of numbers.

I think I know, now.

'Cause that would be something worth complaining about.

Obviously.

LOL hey thanks guys for your replies. Doctor_Alvis you are very funny lol.

Do you think a narration by Linda Hamilton in T3 would have worked seeing as it was about John?During the cemetary scene i would have liked the famous Sarah polaroid to have made an appearance. I think it would have serviced Sarah more. However i thought the guns in the coffin was a neat touch by the filmmakers. It is so badass. Definitely something Sarah would do.Like John said in T2 - "One thing about my Mum, she always plans ahead"lol.

Although T3 never reaches the heights of the second movie, it is a welcome addition to the Terminator franchise imo.Other than that it is like watching T2 again imo. It feels more like T2.5 than an actual sequel. The only thing new was that Judgement Day happened.Thanks for reading guys. Take care