Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

who wins?

KK gets turned to stone.

Karate Kid gets rocked...

is this the inhuman one or the X-men/wolverine one? i confused as they both have different powers but the same name.

Originally posted by Konton
KK gets turned to stone.

facepalm

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Karate Kid gets rocked...

Depends which Karate Kid.

If it's the KK that Batman can match, then Gorgon wins.

Since i don't know who gorgan is, the win goes to Karate Kid by default.

Gorgon Wins.

val.

Karate Kid

also note, val doesn't need to open his eyes or see to win. he has trained blindfolded and can use his other senses to win. this is how good val is.

Yeah i was going to say KK can beat Gorgon if he knows about his eyes. It would be a rape actually

Originally posted by iceman24567
Yeah i was going to say KK can beat Gorgon if he knows about his eyes. It would be a rape actually

Guess Gorgon eyes is common knowledge... i mean if thats true yeah I could imagine KK opening a fresh can of whoopass.

gorgon would win.

val would definitely learn from his mistakes the other times around. making val the majority winner.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Yeah i was going to say KK can beat Gorgon if he knows about his eyes. It would be a rape actually

Yea, this.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
gorgon would win.

nope

KK gets pretty over hyped.

How many feats does he have that would put him above Gorgon?

Not saying he doesn't win, but I'm curious.

KK pressure points should have zero effect on Gorgon

Originally posted by Original Smurph
KK gets pretty over hyped.

How many feats does he have that would put him above Gorgon?

Not saying he doesn't win, but I'm curious.

quite a few. shattering emeral eye, facing off against a mind controlled superboy and holding his own for a bit, sparring regularly with mon-el at super speed, finding weak points in everything, ability to fight in the air, dodging lightning lass's and lord's attacks, facing off against fatal five solo, and the list goes on.

none of that is as impressive as it sounds believe me if you guys look at the respect thread you would agree... it is the same as DS/bats when they name what they have done to supes, flash and the rest of the JLA


edit: not all the feats that were named are from the same KK, but various ones.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
none of that is as impressive as it sounds believe if you guys look at the respect thread you would agree... it is the same as DS/bats when they name what they have done to supes, flash and the rest of the JLA

you don't think restraining a guy who has moved planets like they were mere toys impressive? let me ask you, has anyone ELSE done that and lived to tell the tale? has any human shattered an indestructible object? has any MA gone toe to toe with a Daxamite? nope, not Batman or Richard Dragon. Has any MA created an earthquake just by stomping his foot?

Val wins this. get over it.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
you don't think restraining a guy who has moved planets like they were mere toys impressive?
doesent that sound like pis....that not skill that be strength......

Originally posted by Battlehammer
doesent that sound like pis....that not skill that be strength......

no, it was a special grappling hold that he learned from another civilization. just like in real battles.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
you don't think restraining a guy who has moved planets like they were mere toys impressive? let me ask you, has anyone ELSE done that and lived to tell the tale? has any human shattered an indestructible object? has any MA gone toe to toe with a Daxamite? nope, not Batman or Richard Dragon. Has any MA created an earthquake just by stomping his foot?

Val wins this. get over it. Those also aren't current Karate Kid, are they?

Deathstroke has intercepted Flash and overcome Wonder Woman's lasso.

Batman has kicked Captain Marvel back into his kid form, Billy.

Captain America has gone toe to toe with Hulk and won.

etc, etc

Originally posted by Prep-Man
no, it was a special grappling hold that he learned from another civilization. just like in real battles.
dude no amount of skill can allow you to hold some one a million times your strength........I bet you think Black panther arm baring silver sufer fine as well........

Originally posted by Prep-Man
you don't think restraining a guy who has moved planets like they were mere toys impressive? Black Panther did the same thing to Surfer.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
dude no amount of skill can allow you to hold some one a million times your strength........I bet you think Black panther arm baring silver sufer fine as well........

the hold was designed for metas like superboy. it didn't last, though. superboy was going to get out of it. still impressive that he did it to begin with. val has studied and mastered all forms of fighting in the galaxy/universe.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Black Panther did the same thing to Surfer.

surfer is nowhere near the strength of pre-crisis bricks. come on.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
the hold was designed for metas like superboy. it didn't last, though. superboy was going to get out of it. still impressive that he did it to begin with. val has studied and mastered all forms of fighting in the galaxy/universe.
dude it pis, it no better then black panther arm baring silver surfer ir stupid and rediculous, even punisher striaght up strangle tiger shark before....ect.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
surfer is nowhere near the strength of pre-crisis bricks. come on. Pre-crisis feats don't count when talking about current characters.

As for Surfer, he can amp himself up to be up there. Not tossing planets around, but certainly more powerful than any human arms can restrain.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
surfer is nowhere near the strength of pre-crisis bricks. come on.
even if that is true which I doutb how does this help yoru arguement......it jsut mean KK feat is even more bs.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
dude it pis, it no better then black panther arm baring silver surfer ir stupid and rediculous, even punisher striaght up strangle tiger shark before....ect.

whether you like it or not, it has happened. more than one occasion. it's all skill. that's val armorr's shtick. it began with his FIRST appearance and it's still going on to this day.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
whether you like it or not, it has happened. more than one occasion. it's all skill. that's val armorr's shtick. it began with his FIRST appearance and it's still going on to this day.
I dont care about the rest, but you pretending that KK holding some one liek superboy with skill is assurd and is infact pis.

lets see theses other events.

it WAS skill. it wasn't strength at all.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/adventure368p04.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/adventure368p05.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Adventure378-16.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/SuperboytheLegionofSuperheroes245-1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid12-07.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid12-10.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid12-11.jpg

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I dont care about the rest, but you pretending that KK holding some one liek superboy with skill is assurd and is infact pis.

lets see theses other events. KK's holds and throws are magnified by the strength of his opponent. They utilize their own power against them. That's how he can hang with Superboy, or throw around Ultra-boy like a rag-doll.

Him hanging around with the heavy hitters and being one of the best of the group offensively is something common and part of his character since the very beginning.

Originally posted by Juntai
KK's holds and throws are magnified by the strength of his opponent. They utilize their own power against them. That's how he can hang with Superboy, or throw around Ultra-boy like a rag-doll.

Him hanging around with the heavy hitters and being one of the best of the group offensively is something common and part of his character since the very beginning.
oh I dotn mind any of that. But him holding some one of that strength, not throwing but holding is strength which he does no posses and is pis.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
it WAS skill. it wasn't strength at all.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/adventure368p04.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/adventure368p05.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Adventure378-16.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/SuperboytheLegionofSuperheroes245-1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid12-07.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid12-10.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/KarateKid12-11.jpg

nice but were tlaking about current KK

Originally posted by Juntai
KK's holds and throws are magnified by the strength of his opponent. They utilize their own power against them. That's how he can hang with Superboy, or throw around Ultra-boy like a rag-doll.

Him hanging around with the heavy hitters and being one of the best of the group offensively is something common and part of his character since the very beginning.


Ding! Ding! Ding!

Originally posted by Battlehammer
nice but were tlaking about current KK

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Page004.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Untitled-Scanned-11.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Untitled-Scanned-12.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Untitled-Scanned-13.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Untitled-Scanned-25.jpg

I think people misunderstand what I am saying. I have no problems with him fighting, hanging with throwing, effecting heavy hitters, thats fine by me. I have problems with him holding them, becuase there no amount of skill coudl that work and infact would mean he has vast vast vast vast superhuman strenght

Originally posted by Battlehammer
nice but were tlaking about current KK

BTW, pre-crisis karate kid has also been in current DCU.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Karate%20Kid/JLA10-17ThePyre-LegionBoy.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Karate%20Kid/JLA10-18ThePyre-LegionBoy.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Karate%20Kid/JLA10-25ThePyre-LegionBoy.jpg

Val owns.

impressive. Who was that he was fighting. in the first set of scans

isent there like 3 KK runing around

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I think people misunderstand what I am saying. I have no problems with him fighting, hanging with throwing, effecting heavy hitters, thats fine by me. I have problems with him holding them, becuase there no amount of skill coudl that work and infact would mean he has vast vast vast vast superhuman strenght

That's YOUR opinion. the COMICS show differently. I know it's stupid, but it's a comic world your reading. Hardly anything makes sense. especially, pre-crisis. it's impossible to tow a solar system worth of planets, yet Superboy does. It's impossible to hold Surfer in an armbar, yet Panther has done it, etc...

Originally posted by Battlehammer
impressive. Who was that he was fighting. in the first set of scans

Ultraboy.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
isent there like 3 KK runing around

there are 4 total.

Another interesting thing, is that DC's powerscales use their own weird system.

Typically written, 12 is the top.

For example, Brainiac , one of the smartest beings in the universe, is classified as a 12th level intelligence. Brain smokes even the most advanced computers, complete combined knowledge of untold countless civilizations in history, etc.. I imagine the only things above him, would be something nearing complete omniscience and complete omniscience.

Batman, is a 12th level fighter. One of the best combatants in the universe, able to hold his own in most any situation against any enemy, mastery of all the world's martial arts, and mastery of nearly every form of combat to boot.- trained marksmen, strategist, etc etc.


Karate Kid, is 15th level.
By scale, nearly an omnipotent level of martial arts skill.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
That's YOUR opinion. the COMICS show differently. I know it's stupid, but it's a comic world your reading. Hardly anything makes sense. especially, pre-crisis. it's impossible to tow a solar system worth of planets, yet Superboy does. It's impossible to hold Surfer in an armbar, yet Panther has done it, etc...
it been done does not mean it allowed as evdiences on the forum it what is known as pis.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Ultraboy.
how fast cna he move?

Originally posted by Juntai
Another interesting thing, is that DC's powerscales use their own weird system.

Typically written, 12 is the top.

For example, Brainiac , one of the smartest beings in the universe, is classified as a 12th level intelligence. Brain smokes even the most advanced computers, complete combined knowledge of untold countless civilizations in history, etc.. I imagine the only things above him, would be something nearing complete omniscience and complete omniscience.

Batman, is a 12th level fighter. One of the best combatants in the universe, able to hold his own in most any situation against any enemy, mastery of all the world's martial arts, and mastery of nearly every form of combat to boot.- trained marksmen, strategist, etc etc.


Karate Kid, is 15th level.
By scale, nearly an omnipotent level of martial arts skill.

thats not allowed as evidences on the board, cool anyways though.


what night wings skill level at.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
it been done does not mean it allowed as evdiences on the forum it what is known as pis.

it does when val is a REGULAR at it.

just because he does it more then onces does not make it any less stupid.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
thats not allowed as evidences on the board, cool anyways though.


what night wings skill level at.

here is val owning batman, even though he just came out a coma and not in his right mind (karate kid thought he was Trident, a villain).

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Gd8NBIma-zo/RyN9Cm-8iiI/AAAAAAAABSM/v4RhvUszLuo/s320/valArmorrVsBatman.GIF

See Val grab Batman's utility belt?

This is pre-crisis karate kid, BTW.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
it been done does not mean it allowed as evdiences on the forum it what is known as pis. Him holding super strength characters down isn't a one-off, it's something he's just plain shown capable of doing, as dumb as it might sound.
It's not like, a Daredevil who would struggle with street levelers, and then suddenly have a hot showing out of the blue against a really powerful character we know would kick his ass otherwise.
Karate kid is just in that level, all the time.

If Wolverine ran around space beating the shit out of guys like Drax and Champion for the next 40 years consistantly, would it be PIS, or would it simply be his character?
No, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
just because he does it more then onces does not make it any less stupid.

a lot of things in comics are stupid. i don't take them seriously, to be honest. it's just a battle board.

Larger image.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Gd8NBIma-zo/RyN9Cm-8iiI/AAAAAAAABSM/v4RhvUszLuo/s1600-h/valArmorrVsBatman.GIF

too bad the writers forgot he would get electrocuted for pulling that move.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
too bad the writers forgot he would get electrocuted for pulling that move. Also true, lol.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
too bad the writers forgot he would get electrocuted for pulling that move.

yeah, and black lightning was shocked that it would take enough juice to put down a raging rhino or something to that. he was aslo surprised that val split batman's helmet in half.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
thats not allowed as evidences on the board, cool anyways though.


what night wings skill level at. I understand in one sense how it's not quite evidence in that it's not quite feats. This ranking system exists in the comics themselves however, not just bios like Marvel system, it's actually in character. Brainiac actually refers to himself as a 12th level intellect, Batman refers to himself as a level 12, etc.

I don't know that it's ever been mentioned what Nightwing is, those numbers just appear sometimes.

Val pwns him with his eyes closed a couple chops to the head should be enough.

The one that was referenced as a level 15 fighter, that then faced Batman, would get wrecked.

PC Val would win, though.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
The one that was referenced as a level 15 fighter, that then faced Batman, would get wrecked.

PC Val would win, though. Really the one that was dying from the Morticoccus virus? He was also disoriented and didn't even know who he was i doubt Batman would have done that good with out those factors

Originally posted by iceman24567
Really the one that was dying from the Morticoccus virus? He was also disoriented and didn't even know who he was i doubt Batman would have done that good with out those factors How much of a margin did it make, would you reckon?

How much worse would Batman have done?

Batman would have gotten chopped in half i suppose.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Batman would have gotten chopped in half i suppose. Based on?

Him chopping Equus up like a butcher

The problem that he had against Batman was that he couldn't hit a weak point, like how he did with Equus, like how he does with everything, because Batman's too good to be struck that easily.

Gorgon may not be a Batman level fighter, but he's good enough and can read Val's mind to know every move in advance or just to mind**** Val at the start.

Yo.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
The one that was referenced as a level 15 fighter, that then faced Batman, would get wrecked.

PC Val would win, though.

comrade, that WAS pc-Val.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



comrade, that WAS pc-Val.




Tazer I thought it was too and Equus pretty much analyzed Vals fighting ability and countered it and still lost a hand.

Originally posted by Tazer

comrade, that WAS pc-Val.
I thought that that incarnation was part of the newer legion incarnations, and not the same guy?

If so, he was certainly downgraded from his PC days, so the point remains.

Yo.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
The problem that he had against Batman was that he couldn't hit a weak point, like how he did with Equus, like how he does with everything, because Batman's too good to be struck that easily.

was Val aiming for a weak-point when he de-armed Equus tho??

I dont remember that being stated.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Gorgon may not be a Batman level fighter, but he's good enough and can read Val's mind to know every move in advance or just to mind**** Val at the start.

thats saying he's FAST enuff to counter Val, which is independent of him being able to predict wat his movements would be.




Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I thought that that incarnation was part of the newer legion incarnations, and not the same guy?

If so, he was certainly downgraded from his PC days, so the point remains.

so yur point is that Gorgon could beat a sick & amnesiac person??

ahh, good point then.




Tazer

I'll pick this up again tomorrow.

Yo.

quitter..........




Tazer

Originally posted by Original Smurph
The one that was referenced as a level 15 fighter, that then faced Batman, would get wrecked.

PC Val would win, though.

That was Silver Age va, aka pre-crisis karate kid. same thing.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
The problem that he had against Batman was that he couldn't hit a weak point, like how he did with Equus, like how he does with everything, because Batman's too good to be struck that easily.

Gorgon may not be a Batman level fighter, but he's good enough and can read Val's mind to know every move in advance or just to mind**** Val at the start.

like i said BEFORE, val JUST woke up from a coma and thought he was the villain TRIDENT. Saying, I'm Trident!" over and over again. Val wasn't in his right mind and STILL almost defeated Bruce, if it wasn't for Black Lightning.

Not to mention -- and I've stated and shown this many times -- that in the comics, as opposed to his forum perception, Batman is a force to be reckoned with himself fighting guys way out of his league power-wise, and often making them look bad.
He's quite a bit like Karate Kid in that regard, I suppose. Just not quite as ridiculous with it. You won't see Batman karating chopping guys in half, or throwing around a frustrated Superman in a spar.

Black Lightning stated that Val seemed more like a level 25 fighter, and not a 15. I believe that's proof enough that it was the same Val, just sick and amnesiac.

I realize that Val was hampered by sickness.

He still doesn't stack though.

Gorgon effortlessly beat Wolverine, Elektra and countless SHIELD agents. Logan and Elektra were equipped to hamper his powers and given things like teleporters, SHIELD weaponry, etc. They each fought him multiple times and got assraped each and every time.

We haven't even seen him exert himself.

This was all while they were blocking out his telepathy, which isn't happening in this match.

You would have to believe that Karate Kid was so hampered by sickness that he could beat two Batmen that were equipped especially to handle him along with countless minions and while accessing only a fraction of his power (or skill, I guess, in his case), without exerting any effort what so ever.

And even if you can somehow convince yourself of that, Val can still get mindraped.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I realize that Val was hampered by sickness.

He still doesn't stack though.

Gorgon effortlessly beat Wolverine, Elektra and countless SHIELD agents. Logan and Elektra were equipped to hamper his powers and given things like teleporters, SHIELD weaponry, etc. They each fought him multiple times and got assraped each and every time.

We haven't even seen him exert himself.

This was all while they were blocking out his telepathy, which isn't happening in this match.

You would have to believe that Karate Kid was so hampered by sickness that he could beat two Batmen that were equipped especially to handle him along with countless minions and while accessing only a fraction of his power (or skill, I guess, in his case), without exerting any effort what so ever.

And even if you can somehow convince yourself of that, Val can still get mindraped.

At the time, it wasn't stated he was hampered by sickness, just that he didn't know who he was. when he was hampered by sickness, he casually made Equus look bad.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
At the time, it wasn't stated he was hampered by sickness, just that he didn't know who he was. when he was hampered by sickness, he casually made Equus look bad. You missed the point completely.

Yo.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
We haven't even seen him exert himself.

This was all while they were blocking out his telepathy, which isn't happening in this match.

....

And even if you can somehow convince yourself of that, Val can still get mindraped.

Q: who *did* he mindrape??

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Gorgon effortlessly beat Wolverine, Elektra and countless SHIELD agents. Logan and Elektra were equipped to hamper his powers and given things like teleporters, SHIELD weaponry, etc. They each fought him multiple times and got assraped each and every time.

he fought that many all at the same time?

if so......*nice*.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



Q: who *did* he mindrape?? Once Wolverine's TP blocker was gone, he was rapidly sifting through Wolverine's head for fun.



Originally posted by Tazer
he fought that many all at the same time?

if so......*nice*.

Yeah, he did.

Yo.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Once Wolverine's TP blocker was gone, he was rapidly sifting through Wolverine's head for fun.

Yeah, he did.

hrm.....I see Im going to hafta look these particular issues up then; do U the run in Wolverine in which he appeared??




Tazer

val fought an army of the worst criminals in history...at the same time, which had various super powers like flight, TP, healing, super strength, etc... there were at least 30 to 40 of them.

KK

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



hrm.....I see Im going to hafta look these particular issues up then; do U the run in Wolverine in which he appeared??




Tazer His first appearance was Wolverine vol 2 #20, I think.

The arc was Wolverine: Enemy of the State, or soon after it... mmm

I didnt know kk was so good, you all made me love this character, he's a beast.

In regards of this fight, I dont know who'll win because gorgon is also a beast that really didnt show any limits and has a load of speed feats.

Originally posted by carver9
I didnt know kk was so good, you all made me love this character, he's a beast.

In regards of this fight, I dont know who'll win because gorgon is also a beast that really didnt show any limits and has a load of speed feats.

if this were the case, I don't see what gorgon brings to the table that val can't counter or match. in fact, val has the better feats all around and his top feats dwarf gorgon's, easily.