Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

isn't The one above all (celestial) missing?

UN > multi-abstracs?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
UN > multi-abstracs? Yes the UN can destroy the Multiverse.

Originally posted by kgkg
Yes the UN can destroy the Multiverse. yeah but aint the multis also suppose to be outside MU? (like LT, he & the multis convene in teh same place or somethin iirc)

also IG < WCF & goblin?? (LT suppose to be only thing > IG)

Originally posted by Parmaniac
isn't The one above all (celestial) missing?

umm TOAA is weaker than Exitar even though he is the celestial's leader... I dont think he is much stronger than an average celestial

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
yeah but aint the multis also suppose to be outside MU? (like LT, he & the multis convene in teh same place or somethin iirc)

also IG < WCF & goblin?? (LT suppose to be only thing > IG)

Well LT answers to TOAA who infact is the marvel god in all universes... and LT couldn't defeat Pre-Retcon Beyonder... it couldn't even prevent Beyonder from killing death.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Well LT answers to TOAA who infact is the marvel god in all universes... and LT couldn't defeat Pre-Retcon Beyonder... it couldn't even prevent Beyonder from killing death. IMO pr-beyonder IS TOAA (there wuz no mention of TOAA durin pr-beyonder arc but pr-beyonder wuz pretty much the god of MU & above all, so thats same thing as TOAA)

Originally posted by Space M ummy
I think your list is out of order. Should be:

3.) The one above all (non celestial) whoever or whatever it is the tribunal answers to.



wasn't TOOA (non celestial) said to be the writers? As shown with the FF who met him in form of a writer?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
wasn't TOOA (non celestial) said to be the writers? As shown with the FF who met him in form of a writer?

didn't exist circa secret wars. It's a "post retcon" concept.

It gets complicated, but the best way to describe it is the old analogy that the marvel universe is a drop of water floating in a vast ocean- that ocean being the beyonder. The beyonder was "everything else" that existed outside of the marvel universe, and it was self aware.

"pre retcon" Beyonder and molecule man were explicitly stated to be the two most powerful entities in existence. AFTER secret wars, the nature of the marvel universe and the beyonder were substantially rewritten.

Reed saw the supreme being as a writer, but I'm reasonably certain he/she/it only appeared that way as something reed could comprehend



I'd disagree with this, only because though PR beyonder was massively powerful, he was NOT the creator of the MU, and only discovered its existence by accident. some other entity was the creator/supreme being of that reality, but whatever it was chose not to show up during secret wars

Originally posted by Space M ummy
didn't exist circa secret wars. It's a "post retcon" concept. "pre retcon" Beyonder and molecule man were explicitly stated to be the two most powerful entities in existence.

oh ok thanks for the info

Originally posted by Space M ummy
I think your list is out of order. Should be:

1.) Pre Retcon Beyonder. The beyond realm (Which he was, a sentient reality) was vastly, VASTLY more powerful than the combined known marvel universe and everything in it. Completely unstoppable. The conclusion revealed that everything he did was a small fraction of what he was truly capable of.

2.) Pre retcon molecule man. Weaker than the beyonder (as stated before, every showing in secret wars was the beyonder holding back) but still leaps and bounds more powerful than everything else in the MU.

3.) The one above all (non celestial) whoever or whatever it is the tribunal answers to. Since the power levels of 1 and 2 were retconned way down, it's the top dog.

4.) Tribunal

5.) The infinity gauntlet. Shown several times to be well above the power level of every cosmic entity sans the tribunal, and even THAT's up for dispute, since the gauntlet's power depends on who is wearing it at the time.

Warlock would have lost his fight with the tribunal had he gone through with it, but that would have wrecked all reality in the process. Who knows how a conflict with a more experienced or more ruthless wearer might have gone? 3 and 4 are pretty close, IMHO.

6.) (Multi)Eternity/Infinity/Death/FP Galactus with the nullifier. All on the same level, said to be "peers" and essential forces of the marvel universe. Galactus' powers fluctuate a LOT, but that's due to his hunger, the power he expends keeping abraxas in check, and whatever power is tied up separately in the nullifier. These things taken into account, at his peak, he's the equal of the others.

7.) Every other "non essential" abstract goes here. Love, Hate, Order, Chaos, Phoenix Force, etc. Technically "infinite" power, but doesn't quite have the feats of the big 4 above. You can't really "kill" them since they're concepts and would just reform or use other M-bodies if destroyed.

8.) Every other powerful cosmic entity that's NOT an abstract using an M-body or what have you goes here. Celestials (even TOAA celestial), The Inbetweener, Watchers would go here. unlike the rank at #7, these are NOT "concepts" but distinct and killable entities. Still massively powerful, but not quite on the level of the above. Celestials and The inbetweener in particular were at one point or another stated to be creations or servants of greater abstracts.

9.) Skyfathers and Elder Gods go here. Powerful, but as we've seen in the pages of Thor, not even the combined might of all earth's pantheons were a match for one celestial host. I'd put the various rulers of hell in here also- Mephisto, Satannish, Dormammu, etc. Supreme in their own dimensions, but substantially weaker if they happen to leave it.

10.) everything else isn't really worth ranking, personally. depends on feats and showings etc.

molecule man and beyonder aren't even on the same par as galactus nowdays is that correct?
I always thought that TOAA was the most powerful but what you say makes sense.

Originally posted by galactusischere
molecule man and beyonder aren't even on the same par as galactus nowdays is that correct?
I always thought that TOAA was the most powerful but what you say makes sense.

correct. those two were retconned into having the fraction of the power of a cube being. Even the power of a fully mature cube being is "insignificant" compared to celestials (per kubik) and certainly much, MUCH lower than a full power galactus.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
I think your list is out of order. Should be:

1.) Pre Retcon Beyonder. The beyond realm (Which he was, a sentient reality) was vastly, VASTLY more powerful than the combined known marvel universe and everything in it. Completely unstoppable. The conclusion revealed that everything he did was a small fraction of what he was truly capable of.

2.) Pre retcon molecule man. Weaker than the beyonder (as stated before, every showing in secret wars was the beyonder holding back) but still leaps and bounds more powerful than everything else in the MU.

3.) The one above all (non celestial) whoever or whatever it is the tribunal answers to. Since the power levels of 1 and 2 were retconned way down, it's the top dog.

4.) Tribunal

5.) The infinity gauntlet. Shown several times to be well above the power level of every cosmic entity sans the tribunal, and even THAT's up for dispute, since the gauntlet's power depends on who is wearing it at the time.

Warlock would have lost his fight with the tribunal had he gone through with it, but that would have wrecked all reality in the process. Who knows how a conflict with a more experienced or more ruthless wearer might have gone? 3 and 4 are pretty close, IMHO.

6.) (Multi)Eternity/Infinity/Death/FP Galactus with the nullifier. All on the same level, said to be "peers" and essential forces of the marvel universe. Galactus' powers fluctuate a LOT, but that's due to his hunger, the power he expends keeping abraxas in check, and whatever power is tied up separately in the nullifier. These things taken into account, at his peak, he's the equal of the others.

7.) Every other "non essential" abstract goes here. Love, Hate, Order, Chaos, Phoenix Force, etc. Technically "infinite" power, but doesn't quite have the feats of the big 4 above. You can't really "kill" them since they're concepts and would just reform or use other M-bodies if destroyed.

8.) Every other powerful cosmic entity that's NOT an abstract using an M-body or what have you goes here. Celestials (even TOAA celestial), The Inbetweener, Watchers would go here. unlike the rank at #7, these are NOT "concepts" but distinct and killable entities. Still massively powerful, but not quite on the level of the above. Celestials and The inbetweener in particular were at one point or another stated to be creations or servants of greater abstracts.

9.) Skyfathers and Elder Gods go here. Powerful, but as we've seen in the pages of Thor, not even the combined might of all earth's pantheons were a match for one celestial host. I'd put the various rulers of hell in here also- Mephisto, Satannish, Dormammu, etc. Supreme in their own dimensions, but substantially weaker if they happen to leave it.

10.) everything else isn't really worth ranking, personally. depends on feats and showings etc.

There is nothing that tells me Beyonder and certainly not MM are about TOAA. That is just rubbish

1. Doom

Wrong place for this thread as it's not a versus thread.

Look at this thread instead.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t447826.html