Ultimecia vs Kain

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SpadeKing
These two will do battle within Ultimecia's castle.

who will win the time compressing sorceress or the vampire gone power hungry?

MooCowofJustice
Time compressing sounds epic.

So Ultimecia is some kind of uber time warper?

SpadeKing
pretty much, she has the powers of all the sorceress in the FF8 universe, controls sorceresses in the past via mind control. Created a new (and said by her the most powerful) summon just from the mind of the main character.

and in the last battle she pretty much starts compressing time and also creates the most powerful black magic spell from out of her own mind.

her motives... just cause she can.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Time compressing sounds epic.

So Ultimecia is some kind of uber time warper?

She was debated able to keep up with Nozdormu, so I imagine she is.

SpadeKing
I really have no idea on Kain's time powers so I would like to see how he fairs

MooCowofJustice
Then Kain can't win. It's like the evil pig fight, only the spite has been multiplied by one thousand.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by SpadeKing
I really have no idea on Kain's time powers so I would like to see how he fairs

He can slow time around him. He barely halve the rate of time in a small area.

SpadeKing
...any other time powers? I'm too lazy to go look him up.

XanatosForever
How many takers on BT calling for a soul steal victory?

Burning thought
typical questions, I need feats, vids, speeds of how fast she can manip time, she was beaten by some kids and apprently the power of friendship but in debates ive had with her shes done very little, merely statements of "she could" or "would have" compressed time.

Kain in comparison to Noz or prob Ultimecia although has useful time powers to bugger up others who cannot control time cannot match these on the time field. Just depends on how quickly Ult can stop/manip time and in what ways.

SpadeKing
if any FF villain wasn't supposed to lose due to plot, they would obviously dominate. Ultimecia by far probably had the greatest plan compress all of time or do what she did at the end and start absorbing all of space & time. no expression

she saw her defeat by the hands of the SeeD group & decided she would attempt to end all life through compression so I guess either way she was fated for death. it only took her a few seconds to immediatly begin compressing time from the body of another sorceress. I notice she is also able to teleport to different locations. Her mind reading abilities pretty much rapes a jedi's, she can reach into your mind turning your own thoughts into reality and know everything you know. In her final form of time compression she was destroying any magic that you had and your summons.

The only time I see her use any other time powers is dissidia which I doubt is canon to the series but from that shown... it shows how well thought out these superpowered villains' deaths are.
she just teles away from all squall's strikes then freezes time in an instant, defies gravity by walking upside down and setting up about 70 spikes nearl 2-5 ft away from squall and resumes time.

Burning thought
So she actually saw that she was going ot be defeated? she cant be that great tbh if she can be defeated by what? a few guys, sometimes A>B>C does not work but from what ive heard from her opponents their notihng more than a few kids.

She does not sound that impressive, simply potentially impressive, being able to compress time is great but when it takes time to do it Kain will not just sit back and w8 for her.

So unless she can survive soul attacks, time attacks etc i cant see her being any threat to Kain.

SpadeKing
She changes the forms pretty quickly to the time compression form, she just doesn't execute taking in the entire universe into her body quick enough I guess.

regardless those kids do some ridiculous things, like zell who runs around the F'ing earth in 4 seconds just to do a punch and explosion, squall's sword can reach outside of the planet's atmosphere, selphie had a wierd... instant kill move not sure if it worked on all bosses cause it was rare for me & Rinoa pretty much had the powers of Ultimecia considering Ultimecia travels back in time and transfer all of her powers to the same person who Rinoa would receive it from & she also broke back into Ultimecia's time compression just to get squall, with her limit she can cast spells stronger than Ultimecia's.

I haven't seen any time attacks work on her & doesn't Kain have to hit her or injure or something to begin soul stealing?

Burning thought
Originally posted by SpadeKing
She changes the forms pretty quickly to the time compression form, she just doesn't execute taking in the entire universe into her body quick enough I guess.

regardless those kids do some ridiculous things, like zell who runs around the F'ing earth in 4 seconds just to do a punch and explosion, squall's sword can reach outside of the planet's atmosphere, selphie had a wierd... instant kill move not sure if it worked on all bosses cause it was rare for me & Rinoa pretty much had the powers of Ultimecia considering Ultimecia travels back in time and transfer all of her powers to the same person who Rinoa would receive it from & she also broke back into Ultimecia's time compression just to get squall, with her limit she can cast spells stronger than Ultimecia's.

I haven't seen any time attacks work on her & doesn't Kain have to hit her or injure or something to begin soul stealing?

Hm, but I guess by the sounds of them these were gameplay moves? sorta like Sephiroths Supernova, he doesnt canonically blow up the solarsystem.

he has to hit her with the sword or cast the spirit wrack spell, have time attacks been canonically tested on her?

SpadeKing
I heard those ridiculously crap planet attacks were illusions... then again considering what ultimecia does she probably could pull in 3 planets and an asteroid but surviving that is another thing.

really in game I haven't seen anyone try anything time related on her except when she willingly allowed it through the body of Rinoa so she can travel even further back into time. Other than that closest thing I seen time related with her is re-acting to a bullet easily.

Sin_Volvagia
Ultimecia is beyond the power of Kain. Not even Kefka could absorb time & space.

XanatosForever
Originally posted by Burning thought
So she actually saw that she was going ot be defeated? she cant be that great tbh if she can be defeated by what? a few guys, sometimes A>B>C does not work but from what ive heard from her opponents their notihng more than a few kids.

She does not sound that impressive, simply potentially impressive, being able to compress time is great but when it takes time to do it Kain will not just sit back and w8 for her.

So unless she can survive soul attacks, time attacks etc i cant see her being any threat to Kain.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
How many takers on BT calling for a soul steal victory?

laughing I called it, didn't I?

Burning thought
I have not called a Soul steal victory yet smile you should have waited until Ultemecia was proven not to have any defence against soul attacks and is too slow to stop Kain from destroying her with them, then I would call a soul steal victory.

Phanteros
SPITER

Q'Anilia
A lot of that going on when it comes to Kain threads.

LLLLLink
Wow, stomp. Ultimecia makes Kain get down on all fours.

Burning thought
wtf, with what? she has no such ability, its more like the other way around. He takes her mind and then she enters her own compression and disintegrates herself.

LLLLLink
Any proof that Kain can do that or that Ultimecia can be affected by such? Generally, most chars are immune to techniques they possess.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Any proof that Kain can do that or that Ultimecia can be affected by such? Generally, most chars are immune to techniques they possess.

Generally they aren't.

LLLLLink
Sigh....Why did you ruin my mindgame? I was going for entrapment here. Oh well...

Burning thought
Hes just trying to bait me, you cant bait me into attacking you. Your not as good as I am. Ultemecia gets completly overtaken mentally and Kain makes her strip for him before compressing her time.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Burning thought
Hes just trying to bait me, you cant bait me into attacking you. Your not as good as I am. Ultemecia gets completly overtaken mentally and Kain makes her strip for him before compressing her time.

You just admitted you bait people? ermm

LLLLLink
So, I guess your tactic of ignoring the plea for proof makes you better than me? Only in your own little world. Definitely not on this forum. Btw, nice speaking to you again.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
You just admitted you bait people? ermm

no, I stated I can wink

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Burning thought
no, I stated I can wink

And there's only one way to know you can.

Burning thought
WEll not really, a better statement would be there sonly way I know I can do it well.

Q'Anilia
If you haven't done it, you don't know if you can. It's simple as that. You only think you can, which is not necessarily ilegimate thinking, but still just thinking.

Burning thought
Not really, i know i can play golf, even before ive actually done it, theres some things that come with common sense, baiting someone is one of them.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Burning thought
Not really, i know i can play golf, even before ive actually done it, theres some things that come with common sense, baiting someone is one of them.

Golf is harder than it looks.

Burning thought
It can be hard, I could be terrible at it, but I can still play it, even if I cant even score a hole before 100 tries stick out tongue

LLLLLink
Lol. Best thread EVA!

SpadeKing
Originally posted by Burning thought
Hes just trying to bait me, you cant bait me into attacking you. Your not as good as I am. Ultemecia gets completly overtaken mentally and Kain makes her strip for him before compressing her time.

completely overtaken mentally...

she can know everything about kain to start the match, I doubt he would be quick enough to get through her shield, she blocked an unexpected bullet from a not too long distance fired from a sniper rifle. I doubt you need reaction time on that before we go through this again.

she would basically beat him with his own mind, bringing out anything she wishes to combat him & she can easily destroy any of her oppenants magic.

Burning thought
Originally posted by SpadeKing
completely overtaken mentally...

she can know everything about kain to start the match, I doubt he would be quick enough to get through her shield, she blocked an unexpected bullet from a not too long distance fired from a sniper rifle. I doubt you need reaction time on that before we go through this again.

she would basically beat him with his own mind, bringing out anything she wishes to combat him & she can easily destroy any of her oppenants magic.

Indeed...

So? thats not going to help her at all...why would he get through her shield? just use time powers or soul attacks, then she can be frozen solid inside her shield.

No, he would completly take her mind, her little tricks of mind reading and calling upon things is worthless, Kain fears nothing from his own universe and define "easily destroy magic", I hope this is more than just a gamepaly magicka loss?

SpadeKing
nope she destroys any of your magic in her final form and summons, they're all absorbed, same for the people who fall in the final battle.

time powers sounds like a destroyed move, soul moves sounds like something that can be reflected. Who said it had to be something he feared? she just pulled out an imaginary creature thought by squall and made it the most powerful summon in the game.

Burning thought
Originally posted by SpadeKing
nope she destroys any of your magic in her final form and summons, they're all absorbed, same for the people who fall in the final battle.

time powers sounds like a destroyed move, soul moves sounds like something that can be reflected. Who said it had to be something he feared? she just pulled out an imaginary creature thought by squall and made it the most powerful summon in the game.

In gameplay I presume, if not can you show me the canon of it please. And that would only stop Kain from uing powers, powers from his word which do similiar things are all fair game unless shes absorbed enchantments from magic items as well in canon.

Time powers destroyed? it would just hit her and she would be frozen solid....why would a soul move be reflected? and I assume these are faster than the regulour slow FF mages?

Still doesnt help her if Kains already grasped her mind.

SpadeKing
"Ultimecia also has the most sophisticated mind-reading ability of any sorceress. Presumably, this stems from her power over space. This skill allows her to "reach" inside the mind of any individual, and steal thoughts, knowledge, and even magic. She is also able to use this ability on herself. For example, after Ultimecia transforms into her ultimate form, she reaches into her own mind, and manifests what in her mind is the ultimate Black Magic spell, Apocalypse. Moreover, she has the ability to instantly defeat Guardian Forces and destroy entire stocks of magic, further demonstrating her vast magical strengths. "

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ultimecia

really when has anything besides FF dissidia, not been cannon to their powers? Sephiroth's super nova was really an illusion attack before someone mentions that.

the bullet of a top knotch sniper rifle, fired on perfect timing from a pro, was easily caught and stopped by an unaware Ultimecia controlling a weaker sorceress, she obviously have a reaction time and her powers obviously do work quickly.

I really doubt he could mess with her mind or that he would want too see her strip unless he is into creepy horn-haired witches ermm

LLLLLink
"Sephiroth's super nova was really an illusion attack before someone mentions that."

Ive been saying that for years. Its good to know Im not alone.

Burning thought
Originally posted by SpadeKing
"Ultimecia also has the most sophisticated mind-reading ability of any sorceress. Presumably, this stems from her power over space. This skill allows her to "reach" inside the mind of any individual, and steal thoughts, knowledge, and even magic. She is also able to use this ability on herself. For example, after Ultimecia transforms into her ultimate form, she reaches into her own mind, and manifests what in her mind is the ultimate Black Magic spell, Apocalypse. Moreover, she has the ability to instantly defeat Guardian Forces and destroy entire stocks of magic, further demonstrating her vast magical strengths. "

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ultimecia

really when has anything besides FF dissidia, not been cannon to their powers? Sephiroth's super nova was really an illusion attack before someone mentions that.

the bullet of a top knotch sniper rifle, fired on perfect timing from a pro, was easily caught and stopped by an unaware Ultimecia controlling a weaker sorceress, she obviously have a reaction time and her powers obviously do work quickly.

I really doubt he could mess with her mind or that he would want too see her strip unless he is into creepy horn-haired witches ermm

That quote is fairly vague, especially when it says she reaches into minds to steal magic, knowledge fair enough, unless it means the knowledge of casting a specific spell, Kains magical energy does not come from his mind, if thats the case with FF then it will not likely work with Kain.

Not necessarily all powers, this physical shield perhaps but not necessarily her best.

lol, Kain is a wrinkly old vampire, if he has any sexual interest at all I cant see him ignoring the opportunity.

SpadeKing
I don't think their magic comes from their minds, selphie can cast magic without having any spells at her disposal. the only thing I seen was her reach into her own mind and make up a new spell also... she likes making new powerful things.


http://users.telenet.be/rambaldi/Beelden/FF/FF8/Disc4/Ultimecia%20Final.JPG

if kain wants to tap that sick

Burning thought
well lol...I don't think hes had any for thousands of years so I wouldn't be so sure on his tastes laughing

leonheartmm
ultimecia is a reality manipulater. what she THINKS she mahifests in the real world as a physical phenomenon. it is ague at all. GRIEVER doesnt exist, and yet the CONCEPT is the strongest guardian force{beings that actually EXIST} in leonheart's psyche. she takes that concept and through her powers, voila, its suddenly the strongest guardian force. same with the spell apocalypse.

cumberstomp btw. kain loses.

Burning thought
Originally posted by leonheartmm
ultimecia is a reality manipulater. what she THINKS she mahifests in the real world as a physical phenomenon. it is ague at all. GRIEVER doesnt exist, and yet the CONCEPT is the strongest guardian force{beings that actually EXIST} in leonheart's psyche. she takes that concept and through her powers, voila, its suddenly the strongest guardian force. same with the spell apocalypse.

cumberstomp btw. kain loses.

You slipped up in our first sentence, remember it will be what KAIN thinks after he takes over her mind.

LLLLLink
As it stands right now, Ultimecia has the superior mind control abilities here. Kain needs to find another way.

Burning thought
No, as it stands now she can steal some thoughts to make entities out of, thats nothing to do with actually controlling or protecting a mind so shes still fair game.

Phanteros
So is Kain to time compression

Phanteros
But Kain can pull it off with his deminsional port

SpadeKing
demi whatta who? huh

Phanteros
Originally posted by SpadeKing
demi whatta who? huh Deminsional teleportation

Burning thought
Originally posted by Phanteros
So is Kain to time compression

Not when time compression takes bloomin ages to do.

NemeBro
The one who is able to absorb all of reality after compressing all time into a single moment wins.

To argue otherwise is showing your own intellectual folly.

Oh, and Ultimecia is able to take over minds, read minds, pull abstract concepts from minds and give them a physical form...Yeah, to argue Kain wins by taking over her mind is idiotic considering Ultimecia's own abilities in that regard dwarf Kain's.

ScreamPaste
Neme! Get your comp fixed?

NemeBro
No, at a different house. Do not have that long.

ScreamPaste
Laem.

Burning thought
Originally posted by NemeBro
The one who is able to absorb all of reality after compressing all time into a single moment wins.

To argue otherwise is showing your own intellectual folly.

Oh, and Ultimecia is able to take over minds, read minds, pull abstract concepts from minds and give them a physical form...Yeah, to argue Kain wins by taking over her mind is idiotic considering Ultimecia's own abilities in that regard dwarf Kain's.

Not if it takes too long and that shes never actually done it, merely capable, like a lot of FF powers, too slow and she herself is a glass canon by feats shown so far.

What minds has she canonically taken over? thats the only relevent thing, and no having the ability to do something does not mean your immune to it yourself.

MooCowofJustice
Originally posted by Burning thought
What minds has she canonically taken over? thats the only relevent thing, and no having the ability to do something does not mean your immune to it yourself.

What severed limbs has Kain canonically mist formed? :P

Burning thought
That makes no sense, thats like asking what Spartan armour has Link damaged in the other thread wink

MooCowofJustice
It's not really like that at all...

Unless you thought I meant if Kain mist formed someone else's severed limb. I didn't.

Burning thought
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
It's not really like that at all...

Unless you thought I meant if Kain mist formed someone else's severed limb. I didn't.

Ofc it is, Screampaste bases a lot of his links feats on calculations, not on actual feats. Links never thrown his shield at great speed or used a shovel to break apart enemies with 1000 ton strength.

Just like Kains not used his mist form on a severed limb, silly question really. Nobody in LOK can sever Kains limbs.

Although your question is entirely irrelvent to mine, I ask for a gauge on the canon power of Ultemecias mind controlling powers, and indeed her shown defences against the same power, I am not really asking the excistence of Ultemecia using a power for a certain purpose, merely the gauge of it.

SpadeKing
how strong is kain's mind from mind control? she can apparently easily do that to any sorceress, considering the sorceress' powers came from the game's universe creator and Ultimecia has the half of his given powers.

whats to say she just won't pull another him out of kain's mind?

and no link can't pierce a spartan shield no expression

Burning thought
Originally posted by SpadeKing
how strong is kain's mind from mind control? she can apparently easily do that to any sorceress, considering the sorceress' powers came from the game's universe creator and Ultimecia has the half of his given powers.

whats to say she just won't pull another him out of kain's mind?

and no link can't pierce a spartan shield no expression

because by the sounds of this move it will take longer than a second or two to implement, and then someone would have to show me a fairly detailed instance of her doing something like this because it may not be as advanced as your making it sound, I doubt if she could just pull anything she wants out of someones mind, including her own....otherwise she would just pull out God and have him wipe out the universe and compress time for her wouldnt she? I doubt she can create a perfect copy of her opponent either and if she did, she would then be fighting two Kains. Kains mind as I said before is immune to a mind controller who has actually controlled small armies of soldiers and priests. This was a far weaker Kain than we know now. Also I remember someone saying there is a special relationship between her and these Sorceresses, can you explain?

Nephthys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7cLdT7r9Y4&feature=related

It took 5 seconds for Griever to form.

Burning thought
lol really? thats far to long...thats like...

Kain could have done about 3/4 attacks in that time, if were talking teleports then he could prob do about 10, I hope she has some really good durability feats and spell resistances.

Nephthys
Well, she a bullet timer so she could just dodge all his attacks pretty easily.

Burning thought
Apprently all shes done is react to someone fireing a bullet, not actually dodged out of the way of a bullet. Not to mension this was in a diffrent form was it not? not that large form you see in the final boss fights.

And if shes doing that shes not attacking herself so she can either spend this fight doging and fleeing from Kain until he decides to activate the time reaver and slows her in time, proceding to kill her.

Also dodging a bullet is not the same as dodging someone teleporitng from an angle you could not possibly judge and slashing you, youve then got to fight Kains size and his sentience because he can correct himself to follow Ultemecia with another teleport if his first swing fails. A bullet is very tiny and unintelligent despite its speed.

Nephthys
Not really, she raises her arm and casts protect right after the bullet is fired. Or at least logically she does, as the only other explanation would be that she was standing there with her arm raised and protect formed before he fired (which is stupid and doesn't make any sense).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNDs5l4bhco&feature=related



She has other attacks than time compression, most significantly Apocalypse and meteor, that ice thing she does on Squall etc. And even with the time reaver she's still probably faster than him, especially given how that attack slows Kain down as well. Plus she can teleport too. And she just need's to dodge long enough for something really nasty to form from Kain's mind, and then double team him.

If the feats from Dissidia were canon though, she would stomp hard, as shes actually shown casually dodging all of Squall's attacks with teleporting, instantly creating about 50 homing projectiles and casually stopping time and having Squall totally at her mercy, only her arrogance saving him from death. The fight would be over in half a second.



Yeah, but she'd know where he was all the time via telepathy, and her reactions would let her dodge all his attacks or just teleport away and bombard him with spells or start Time Compression.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Nephthys
Not really, she raises her arm and casts protect right after the bullet is fired. Or at least logically she does, as the only other explanation would be that she was standing there with her arm raised and protect formed before he fired (which is stupid and doesn't make any sense).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNDs5l4bhco&feature=related



She has other attacks than time compression, most significantly Apocalypse and meteor, that ice thing she does on Squall etc. And even with the time reaver she's still probably faster than him, especially given how that attack slows Kain down as well. Plus she can teleport too. And she just need's to dodge long enough for something really nasty to form from Kain's mind, and then double team him.

If the feats from Dissidia were canon though, she would stomp hard, as shes actually shown casually dodging all of Squall's attacks with teleporting, instantly creating about 50 homing projectiles and casually stopping time and having Squall totally at her mercy, only her arrogance saving him from death. The fight would be over in half a second.



Yeah, but she'd know where he was all the time via telepathy, and her reactions would let her dodge all his attacks or just teleport away and bombard him with spells or start Time Compression.

It makes sense if she can actually do what you brought up against Kains teleport, telepathy, if she can do that then its not unlikely that she knew what he was doing, especially when the bullet and rilfle itself had a slow charge up before fireing, it was a bit obvious him hanging over and she was facing the same way he was fireing so its likely she knew he was there.....

Apocalypse and meteor both quicker than her summonig of things from Kains mind? faster than him? you cant base her stopping one bullet by moving her arm (according to your assumption) on her whole body being able to move quickly and as I said, thats not fast enough to stop Kains teleport because she still will not know where Kain is or where he will come from. Depends if you can prove she can call things from Kains mind while moving like that.

Over in a second? unlikely, I doubt she can kill Kain, she may destroy his physical form for a while however but even so, ive seen "instantly" before, things are rarely instant.

Telepathy is not necesserily passive, which means she cannot necesserily know whats going around her or with Kain by using it, furthermore, Kain when teleported is not on her plane so she could not possibly sense him until he is right on top of her. Kain only has to do one spell, whether it be blood shower, spirit death or a time attack, she will be slowed in time by at least half. Also Kain is never slowed by his time powers, that was just a poor statement by some opposition, hes never shown or stated to be slowed by his own pwoers and as you said for Ultemecia (only this time its true) it really does not make sense for Kain to slow himself in time.

ScreamPaste
facepalmx

SpadeKing
they didn't consider dissidia canon but even if they did that just further proves how the FF villains should never have lost in the first place no expression

think the only one who technically won is Kuja hmm

and the relationship dunno how but, before she dies she travels back in time and gives up her powers to Edea and it later transfers onto ultimecia sometime later again.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Burning thought
Not if it takes too long and that shes never actually done it, merely capable, like a lot of FF powers, too slow and she herself is a glass canon by feats shown so far.

What minds has she canonically taken over? thats the only relevent thing, and no having the ability to do something does not mean your immune to it yourself. She was shown rapidly absorbing stars.

Kain is millions of times smaller than a star.

The power was activated as soon as she assumed her time compressed form.

Glass cannon? She has a shield she can summon at will, and has summoned it to react to a sniper bullet.

What minds? Adel's, Edea's, and Rinoa's. The first two are powerful sorceresses, the first one was considered a planetary threat.

Having stronger mental abilities than your opponent actually does mean your opponent cannot mentally harm you. Combined with Ultimecia's superior reaction-time...Yeah. Also, this was pre-time compressed Ultimecia. who was only defeated with the power of Love and Friendship(I shit you not, in-game explanation), which Kain does not possess.

Fvck, this thread is stupid, going by the rules of time compression, Kain cannot even EXIST to fight Ultimecia.

SpadeKing
Squall didn't buy into the idea though he was sprung over Rinoa.

NemeBro
Exactly, love and friendship.

Burning thought
Originally posted by NemeBro
She was shown rapidly absorbing stars.

Kain is millions of times smaller than a star.

The power was activated as soon as she assumed her time compressed form.

Glass cannon? She has a shield she can summon at will, and has summoned it to react to a sniper bullet.

What minds? Adel's, Edea's, and Rinoa's. The first two are powerful sorceresses, the first one was considered a planetary threat.

Having stronger mental abilities than your opponent actually does mean your opponent cannot mentally harm you. Combined with Ultimecia's superior reaction-time...Yeah. Also, this was pre-time compressed Ultimecia. who was only defeated with the power of Love and Friendship(I shit you not, in-game explanation), which Kain does not possess.

Fvck, this thread is stupid, going by the rules of time compression, Kain cannot even EXIST to fight Ultimecia.

Arguable if they were actually stars the way your refering to them or if their stars at all tbh, does it say they are or did they just look like them? furthermore shes taking things from time and space, its unkown if shes conciously taking targets or not, she could simply use the power of time compression and it starts with taking the largest objects first or stars first, you cant assume Kain will for some reason be suddenly sucked in. Theres a lot of assumptions made with this, for example why is her immediate environment not sucked in?

So? as i said, it may not work like a vaccume.

Which coud take a long time for all I know, assuming this form and if she starts in it, I would like to see her start time compression, it still did not affect her environment and the above arguments still stand.

Weve seen that already, not imrpessive at all in any sense of the word...

So they have no feats against psychic powers? and you are definite and can display that it was through mental force and not a spell or PIS event that lead to the possession/control of them?

False, having stronger mental abilities is worthless if you have no ability to defend. Kain can take souls, freeze opponents in time and use TK but that does not mean he can stop othes from doing these things to him. Just like Kratos having the ability to throw lightning, use the gorgon head etc does not mean he is immune to being turned to stone or being hit by lightning.

LLLLLink
Kain is a failure. Ultimecia would rape him soundly.

Time compression > Kain

Burning thought
Kain>Love and friendship>time compression

LLLLLink
Kain is a failure. Has he even won one legitimate fight on this forum?

Burning thought
Pretty much all of them as far as I am concerned, theres only a couple hes actually lost thats for sure. Hes won fights when the forum was fairly young and there were more people who knew about LoK and hes won those with me backing him against Dante, Kratos, Sephiroth, evil pig, imo Demitri,Jedah and Pyron although their actually still arguable and many more obscure less mainstream characters.

He just cant fight robots too well.

Although I think your trying to bait and pick a fight, please just debate or leave the thread.

LLLLLink
Hm....
Well, he hasnt won any since I've been on.

Tack this one onto his loss list, then.

Burning thought
I still have arguments for it, so if the idea that Kain loses just because yo uthink so your very much mistaken and its no wonder he has no "wins" from your point of view.

LLLLLink
He loses because he is weaker than his opponents. Check your grammar.

Burning thought
Which is your opinion, just like how you think Link wins in the Kratos thread without argument, forgive me for saying but I dont think your opinion is held in high regard.

I never check my grammar, its not important to me, I usually have arguments to make you see.

LLLLLink
It doesnt matter. What is right, is right. What is fact, is fact, and a full powered HoT Link never losing is both. Just like Ultimecia winning this one is.

Burning thought
Your kind of fact seems to be a very poor defintion of the word it would seem.....well banter all you like, i want to debate so Ill w8 until there is an argument in here.

LLLLLink
Well, if you have proof that something I say isnt true, you feel free to debunk. On this particular matchup, Im merely choosing sides, but when it comes to my specialty, I'll be sure to give you a sound argument.

Burning thought
Well you dont have an argument do you at the moment so there is nothing to debunk, saying Kain loses because Ultimecia is too strong is not really an argument. its been debated for a while and it turns out most of utlimecia's actual power is potential, not actual direct power and her better skills take a fair time to get up and running e.g. the mind power that allows her to make imaginary monsters.

Also this matchup does not state what form of ultimecia, does she start in time compressing form in which case what powers does it have? and can it do all the things Ultimecia can do in her more humanoid form?

LLLLLink
Well, I know some of Kain's abilities, and they are pretty weak in comparison to other chars. I just dont find him to be any challenge for an above average fighter.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Burning thought
Arguable if they were actually stars the way your refering to them or if their stars at all tbh, does it say they are or did they just look like them? furthermore shes taking things from time and space, its unkown if shes conciously taking targets or not, she could simply use the power of time compression and it starts with taking the largest objects first or stars first, you cant assume Kain will for some reason be suddenly sucked in. Theres a lot of assumptions made with this, for example why is her immediate environment not sucked in?

So? as i said, it may not work like a vaccume.

Which coud take a long time for all I know, assuming this form and if she starts in it, I would like to see her start time compression, it still did not affect her environment and the above arguments still stand.

Weve seen that already, not imrpessive at all in any sense of the word...

So they have no feats against psychic powers? and you are definite and can display that it was through mental force and not a spell or PIS event that lead to the possession/control of them?

False, having stronger mental abilities is worthless if you have no ability to defend. Kain can take souls, freeze opponents in time and use TK but that does not mean he can stop othes from doing these things to him. Just like Kratos having the ability to throw lightning, use the gorgon head etc does not mean he is immune to being turned to stone or being hit by lightning. 1. You seem to not know what an assumption is. You are making the assumptions that she may take the largest objects first and other assorted nonsense. Prove any of that. Her immediate...environment? Um, lul? When she enters her Time Compressed form, all that surrounds you and her is nothingness.

2. It sure as hell worked fast enough to absorb at the very least the planet they were on in no time at all...

3. The start of the thread stated Time Compressed Ultimecia. So yeah, she starts in it. And, um, yeah, it did affect her environment. As in it absorbed all of it.

4. Not impressive? It shows better reaction-time than Kain has ever shown. And can you prove Kain has more piercing power than an armor piercing bullet?

5. It was obviously through magic considering that forms the basis of her powers...But it was not a magic spell, not that you can prove anyway. As for PIS event, nope, just her abilities. She sent her conciousness back in time to take over their minds.

6. Taking souls is just that, the ability to take souls. A very specific term. Same with freezing in time. And no, if your TK abilities are above that of your opponent, obviously they will have a harder time TKing you. Mental abilities is a general term, encompassing a broad range of specific abilties. Ultimecia has shown more and better feats of mental abilities, she can tangle Kain's mind like a ball of yarn, because she has feats that put her mental abilities at a far greater level than his. Shit, show me an instance where someone with greater mental abilities than his opponent was mentally defeated by their opponent in some way. Humor me.

Burning thought
Originally posted by NemeBro
1. You seem to not know what an assumption is. You are making the assumptions that she may take the largest objects first and other assorted nonsense. Prove any of that. Her immediate...environment? Um, lul? When she enters her Time Compressed form, all that surrounds you and her is nothingness.

2. It sure as hell worked fast enough to absorb at the very least the planet they were on in no time at all...

3. The start of the thread stated Time Compressed Ultimecia. So yeah, she starts in it. And, um, yeah, it did affect her environment. As in it absorbed all of it.

4. Not impressive? It shows better reaction-time than Kain has ever shown. And can you prove Kain has more piercing power than an armor piercing bullet?

5. It was obviously through magic considering that forms the basis of her powers...But it was not a magic spell, not that you can prove anyway. As for PIS event, nope, just her abilities. She sent her conciousness back in time to take over their minds.

6. Taking souls is just that, the ability to take souls. A very specific term. Same with freezing in time. And no, if your TK abilities are above that of your opponent, obviously they will have a harder time TKing you. Mental abilities is a general term, encompassing a broad range of specific abilties. Ultimecia has shown more and better feats of mental abilities, she can tangle Kain's mind like a ball of yarn, because she has feats that put her mental abilities at a far greater level than his. Shit, show me an instance where someone with greater mental abilities than his opponent was mentally defeated by their opponent in some way. Humor me.

1. ofcourse i do, you seem to be assuming their stars, I am not going to make that assumption so you show me that they are actually stars. When she enters it? so its not her default form then, Kain will kill her before she can even start compressing time. Also you still did not answer other questions, she may not be conciously taking everything she wants, nor may it be a vaccume, unless you can prove it.

2. Show me this....

3. Yet nobody was absorbed, also show me. And me and Spade had a debate on how long it took her to compress, he stated it does not take her long to get into the form itself but it does take al ong time to compress time....so...where does it state she starts off in the time compressing form?

4. First Kain is not going to be hitting a shield, he will be behind her slicing her in two down the back, second Kains piercing power is not the most improtant thing here, although 30 tonnes+ from a large sword is beyond a bullet. What will really kill her is her soul being torn out.

5. Can you prove any of this? and I dont have to prove anything your the one making the claim that she can do it this way, you will need to prove speed, timing etc. Apprently she used some sort of machine? that what I have read, theres definaltey a machine involved.

6. No, your making no logical sense. Mind powers are very specific, you either have the ability to defend or you do not, their two diffrent attributes defence and assault you understand? TK? how is having a higher TK any defence for you? you cant swat TK out of the air and you cannot necesserily push it either...

I dont have to show other characters, you need to show Ultimecia with mental defences or drop the argument, by the looks of things shes got into the minds of some what? mentally defenceless girls and has taken thoughts and made them reality or something? first thats not great mind control, nor is it defence.


Originally posted by LLLLLink
Well, I know some of Kain's abilities, and they are pretty weak in comparison to other chars. I just dont find him to be any challenge for an above average fighter.

Humour me, name me some of "kains" abilities and why they are pretty weak against average fighters, sounds like a Blunder 4 part 1 to me...

Phanteros
Kain lost 50% of the threads he was in a most of the so called victories remained inconclusive.

the only cleared ones was Sephiroth, Cloud, and Link I think

Burning thought
Originally posted by Phanteros
Kain lost 50% of the threads he was in a most of the so called victories remained inconclusive.

the only cleared ones was Sephiroth, Cloud, and Link I think

Hes not lost any threads in games vs, since I dont remember coneding to any, I still had many arguments for Kain in any thread. Theres either threads Kain has outright won, or threads that are as you say, inconclusive which is where my opponents disapear.

Nephthys
Edea and Rinoa do have telepathy as well btw, becuase if ultimacia has it they do too, seeing as how they have the exact (literally) same powerset as Ultimecia except for when she goes uber Time-wizard at the end of the game (or maybe they actually still have that power mmm), so yeah, they can resist mind-rape. It should logically only be becuase of skill and sheer force of will that she took over their minds, which is a damn good feat considering Rinoa survived the practical Apocalypse through will-power alone.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Nephthys
Edea and Rinoa do have telepathy as well btw, becuase if ultimacia has it they do too, seeing as how they have the exact (literally) same powerset as Ultimecia except for when she goes uber Time-wizard at the end of the game (or maybe they actually still have that power mmm), so yeah, they can resist mind-rape. It should logically only be becuase of skill and sheer force of will that she took over their minds, which is a damn good feat considering Rinoa survived the practical Apocalypse through will-power alone.

Or they merely had the power of mental attack, not defence, this supports my ideas even more so if they have the same mental power as her according to you....

Therefore, she only won probably because like herself, they have zero defences of the mind. Unlike Kain.

Also I thought she combined all the powers of all the sorceresses into herself, i thought thats what caused her to become so powerful?

Nephthys
It's impossible for someone to have telepathy and not be able to defend against telepathy. It would be like me having arms, but only being able to punch and never block; nonsensical.

Burning thought
Not really, that makes no sesne at all because arms are physical objects, you can react to them, touch them, see them. With a psychic attack you dont necesserily know when your opponent is going to attack and it takes a diffrent ability/technique entirely to defend. For example if you were a martial artist and you knew only offensive techniques, you dont automatically know all the defensive ones as well just because you have learnt the offensive.

Just because I can fire a machine gun does not mean I can defend myself against one, or become immune to its shots....

hell did these sorcresses even try to stop Ultemecia from taking over their minds, if they did not even attempt a defence then that atuomatically resolves the issue that they probably had no idea of it happening before it was too late and so could not stop ultemecia due to lack of defence.

Nephthys
Your analogy is faulty becuase a machine gun is not an actual part of your body like telepathy is. Telepathy is almost literally (though of course different in specifics) a mental limb, allowing one to feel and manipulate minds. For all intents and purposes telepathy is a punch in that its still attached and can still be moved around. Otherwise it would be like a (as you suggest) a gun, but one where you can't see where your firing. Haven't you ever seen telepaths in the media sense someone behind their back. How could they do this if it was just a gunshot that you fire in specific directions.

Lastly, telepathy is used to directly mould the mind as the telepath see's fit. This requires the active ability to feel, to sense and to touch the other mind, rather than just firing an instant mind-hump blast. To stick with my analogy, Ultimacia taking over their minds would be a metaphorical headlock, she can move them around, but they can still fight back, becuase they still have control of their limbs, shes just moving them.

I think I'm right in this, and I don't know how to make it any clearer than this.


edit: and to answer your question I believe Rinoa was fighting back against Ultimecias control, as when she took over her body it was seriously spazing out and moving as if it had something really trying to hold it back. Nothing like the total control she imediately had over Adel, who's mind was dead I believe.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Nephthys
Your analogy is faulty becuase a machine gun is not an actual part of your body like telepathy is. Telepathy is almost literally (though of course different in specifics) a mental limb, allowing one to feel and manipulate minds. For all intents and purposes telepathy is a punch in that its still attached and can still be moved around. Otherwise it would be like a (as you suggest) a gun, but one where you can't see where your firing. Haven't you ever seen telepaths in the media sense someone behind their back. How could they do this if it was just a gunshot that you fire in specific directions.

Lastly, telepathy is used to directly mould the mind as the telepath see's fit. This requires the active ability to feel, to sense and to touch the other mind, rather than just firing an instant mind-hump blast. To stick with my analogy, Ultimacia taking over their minds would be a metaphorical headlock, she can move them around, but they can still fight back, becuase they still have control of their limbs, shes just moving them.

I think I'm right in this, and I don't know how to make it any clearer than this.

Telepathy is just a mental link, i.e speaking to others, its nothing to do with attacking and it seems to me your keeping some things from me, I have been reading this:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ultimecia





This one above makes me wonder if She can possess anyone other than Sorceresses considering she had to make an effort to gain control, if hse could just take his mind why wouldnt she?





From this I have found out that first, before she can even use the power of time compression she had to send her mind through a machine both in the past, present and future. She had to possess Enoli or however you spell it who was a sorceress AND then, enoli actually defeated her possession long enough to stop her from using the full compression anyway. Whats more....they claim it as possession throughout this piece of information meaning it may not be mind control at all, considering she is only noted for telepathy, and her TK was said to be used just to beat up someone.....hardly impressive...



I feel lied to, since you said that all sorceresses previously passed their powers on? perhaps you misunderstood (evident from this information) and the truth is that they sent their power not powers to the next sorceress.

NOt only does utlemecia need this eloni or w/e she is, but she needs the machine to send about her conciousness and eloni can fight Ultimecias spell anyway...

Also it seems to me your confusing her possession of sorcesses (not sure if she did it to anyone else) with telepathy, which she used to sense various things which makes sense because telepathy is not used usually to control any mind at all. her telepathy is however at a high enough level in her final most powerful form to pluck things from it and give htem life.

But as youve shown, they take a fair amount of time to rise up and fight, far too long.

So in conclusion telepathy is nothing to do with mind control and her possesion is based on a machine, which she does not have in this fight. The machine being integral to all her main powers and her time compression as well....

Nephthys
Not just a mental link, it can easily be used to screw with someones will, mind or memories (Star Wars style).

And remember thats just a wiki, so it's likely fan-made and not 100% accurate.



I don't know about this, But it doesn't really change anything as she has the concrete display of telepathically stealing thoughts from Squall, so she must have Telepathy



I think your looking too much into this. What she does is talk to Seifer abit and convince him to join her team, using his specific hopes and dreams btw, likely telepathically gleamed.



Yeah, but this was before she was practically a god. She couldn't just jump through time or control it then.



If you're talking about Ellone, Ellone stops her temperarily for some reason I can't recall (Disc 4 is freaky) but she later initiates Time Compression again,' absorbing all of time, space, and existence into her newly transformed body', without any mention of Ellone or any hick-up bar SEED.

And Ellone wasn't a sorceress.



Not really, when she possesses Rinoa she creates a telepathic barrier around herself that even Squall can't break through (a meta-human junctioned to extremely powerful magical creatures and boosted by magic) to the extent that he bounces off and starts ragdolling people around.

This plus protect plus her great reactions and speed plus her ability to most likely punch Kains head off (she impales someone through the chest with her bare hand at one point, with ease) plus telepathy plus teleport plus time compression is what I would say equals a dead Kain.



I don't care about all that, I'm just saying that she'll be able to feel Kain with his mind, so she'll know if he teleports behind her and react accordingly.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Nephthys
Not just a mental link, it can easily be used to screw with someones will, mind or memories (Star Wars style).

And remember thats just a wiki, so it's likely fan-made and not 100% accurate.



I don't know about this, But it doesn't really change anything as she has the concrete display of telepathically stealing thoughts from Squall, so she must have Telepathy



I think your looking too much into this. What she does is talk to Seifer abit and convince him to join her team, using his specific hopes and dreams btw, likely telepathically gleamed.



Yeah, but this was before she was practically a god. She couldn't just jump through time or control it then.



If you're talking about Ellone, Ellone stops her temperarily for some reason I can't recall (Disc 4 is freaky) but she later initiates Time Compression again,' absorbing all of time, space, and existence into her newly transformed body', without any mention of Ellone or any hick-up bar SEED.

And Ellone wasn't a sorceress.



Not really, when she possesses Rinoa she creates a telepathic barrier around herself that even Squall can't break through (a meta-human junctioned to extremely powerful magical creatures and boosted by magic) to the extent that he bounces off and starts ragdolling people around.

This plus protect plus her great reactions and speed plus her ability to most likely punch Kains head off (she impales someone through the chest with her bare hand at one point, with ease) plus telepathy plus teleport plus time compression is what I would say equals a dead Kain.



I don't care about all that, I'm just saying that she'll be able to feel Kain with his mind, so she'll know if he teleports behind her and react accordingly.

Star wars is not really telepthy the way you see it in other fictions because its using the force which has other powers including Tk and summoning lightning etc

No offence meant, but I hold it above any member on the site, the only thing that beats the wiki is an actual canon vid or site that contradicts, sure its not accurate, but ive seen first hand neither are memebers of the forum.

Stealing thoughts is not the typical power of telepathy, it seems like a unique ability in FF.

Exactley, why doesnt she just mind control him if she can do so? sure as hell easier than talking someone into it, although as the wiki states, most of her powers are possession through a machine, not her own power.

Well thats what it says, when has she been a God and done it herself? this wiki states again and again that she had to use the machine to not only create this possession effect but also to she had to possess 3 diffrent people at the same time, who are not in this VS, so shes kinda screwed on the time compression front.

From reading it, she never actually intitiates taking over excistence, merely time and space.

Yes I see that now, my mistake.

What are squalls strength feats? and punching Kains head off and punching a random guys is very diffrent, 1. because Kain can turn into mist which will not only negate physical attack but also make it useless if she does manage it. 2. Because Kain is damn durable himself, Raziel cannot even damage him and the proof for Raziels strength is in my bio.

Time compression looks all but impossible now she not only needs a machine to take possessio nof anyone but she also needs these 3 people to actually start the compression spell, if you go on the wiki and click time compression, it states that she needs all 3, i think its stated in her wiki page as well, (I may have quoted it in my past post)

I think Kain is all but invulerable to her tbh, dont forget he cna teleport at incredible speed, ive not even seen ultemecia do it, not all teleports are fast, Kain has 3 shown, each one diffrent to the other and some slower than his dimentional one. He could make distance between them and use his own time powers which he can do by himself and within a second or so and then shes defeated since she cant fight much once slowed to at least 50%, prob more, I forgot my calculation.

This is another thing to take into account, how do you suppose she will detect Kain if he teleports? I mean hes not even there when he disapears, not even on her plane so theres hardly a chance she could find out where hes going to end up apart from the fraction of a second he takes to appear and slice...

ALso I am guessing this is based on the assumption that she reacted to the bullet as it fired and was not facing and readying her spell as his gun charged? if your wrong about that she could actually be slow..

Remember thats only one possessed sorceress, and thats while shes not doing anything else...so you have to choose, can she take thoughts from Kains mind while dodging bullets and making shields? because from what it looks like each of her possessed sorceresses give her diffrent powers.

Nephthys
Whoops, after some research, it is actually possible that Ellone might have been a sorceress, but your wiki says that her power is non-magical, so no, it wouldn't have been passed on.

edit:and I'll get to that tomorrow, maybe.

Burning thought
Sure thing, also nice debating with you btw

SpadeKing
all the sorceress that spoke about ultimecia were aware of her controlling them... which was only 2 out of 3 can't remember clearly on everything else they said I might just go through the game again later.

Ultimecia was the ultimate sorceress she had the powers of all past sorceress, she didn't need 3 people only thing she needed was to have ellone send her consciousness back further in the past, so she was still able to fight and begin time compression at the same time still... so Idk wtf happened there if she really needed it or not.

when irvine fired the bullet for edea (ultimecia) she was looking around all over the place and Irvine I guess supposedly according to his profession would take the shot when she was least aware and she managed to react to it inches before hitting.

dunno about squall's strength feats but he can do ridiculous moves with his gunblade skills.

Darkstorm Zero
Wasn't the machine and Ellone only needed to obtain the powers from the earlier sorcresses? They arn't needed for the time compression itself... Once Ultimecia has the powers from the other sorcresses, she is pretty much done with the machine and Ellone.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Wasn't the machine and Ellone only needed to obtain the powers from the earlier sorcresses? They arn't needed for the time compression itself... Once Ultimecia has the powers from the other sorcresses, she is pretty much done with the machine and Ellone.

Well the wiki claims she needs to be in the past, prsent and future and she cannot do that alone, she needs not only ellone but also the other sorcesses, adel, eloine or w/e their names are to get it done. If you follow the time compression link it says:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ultimecia





Ellone is not even in this battle so she cannot even achieve time comrpession.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
all the sorceress that spoke about ultimecia were aware of her controlling them... which was only 2 out of 3 can't remember clearly on everything else they said I might just go through the game again later.

Ultimecia was the ultimate sorceress she had the powers of all past sorceress, she didn't need 3 people only thing she needed was to have ellone send her consciousness back further in the past, so she was still able to fight and begin time compression at the same time still... so Idk wtf happened there if she really needed it or not.

when irvine fired the bullet for edea (ultimecia) she was looking around all over the place and Irvine I guess supposedly according to his profession would take the shot when she was least aware and she managed to react to it inches before hitting.

dunno about squall's strength feats but he can do ridiculous moves with his gunblade skills.

As the wiki says however, she still needs her conciousness in the bodies of entities in the past, present and fture to even start the time power, and she can only even do this with ellone, she cant do it herself.

She cant time compression by herself. It took a lot of planning and effort and even if you allow that to have already happened in this gauntlet, she still needs to retain and Past/present/future link to people with someobodies powers she does not have.

I dont know about that, if shes got the telepathy to Nephyse said she had then she could easily sense them long before they even lowered the gates, after that it was obvious. not to mentsion he was sort of hanging over the balcony with a huge gun which had a charge time to fire....then the next minute you see her shes got her shield up. Its a far reach to think she reacted in that time to blocking him after looking around frantically espedcially if Nephyse is right.

Even then, its more a educated guess rather than a fact isnt it.

Darkstorm Zero
The thing is though, that she DID initiate time compression during the final battle, Rinoa was in the future, and Ultimecia's link to the present Ellone was severed when Adel went up in flames. Her final form was already compressing future space/time. This debunks the wiki article.

(I played FF8 religiously for ages on the PS1 stick out tongue )

Gumachi
Ultimecia.

SpadeKing
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Wasn't the machine and Ellone only needed to obtain the powers from the earlier sorcresses? They arn't needed for the time compression itself... Once Ultimecia has the powers from the other sorcresses, she is pretty much done with the machine and Ellone.

Ultimecia already has the powers of all sorceress the entire half of the given great hyne. She just needed her mind further in the past so it can exist in Squall's present time, her present time, and I guess all the way back to the war with great hyne's time. I'm guessing she had 3 brains haermm

Originally posted by Burning thought
As the wiki says however, she still needs her conciousness in the bodies of entities in the past, present and fture to even start the time power, and she can only even do this with ellone, she cant do it herself.

She cant time compression by herself. It took a lot of planning and effort and even if you allow that to have already happened in this gauntlet, she still needs to retain and Past/present/future link to people with someobodies powers she does not have.

I dont know about that, if shes got the telepathy to Nephyse said she had then she could easily sense them long before they even lowered the gates, after that it was obvious. not to mentsion he was sort of hanging over the balcony with a huge gun which had a charge time to fire....then the next minute you see her shes got her shield up. Its a far reach to think she reacted in that time to blocking him after looking around frantically espedcially if Nephyse is right.

Even then, its more a educated guess rather than a fact isnt it.

She began the time compression without ellone being there, something she personally stated before she went to her final form.

they were pretty far back but she might've been able to sense it dunno, it didn't exactly have a charge time, he just took his time getting a perfect shot like all snipers do, unless he has some sort of super sniper rifle.

Burning thought
Can you show me the vid that states she does not need these people for time compression? to "debunk" the wiki arcticle please?

it says in the wiki that she was in the form of Adel when she cast the compression, peculier if this is not true. Well theres a high chance its not a normal sniper rifle since its not on Earth. But the wiki claims a lot of things, who and what she needs to attain full compression, if she can do it by herself then why would she use ellone or any of the other sorceresses?

doesnt make sense to me...she must obviously need people because this is all part of her plan, why would there even be a long game if she could just do it from the get go?

SpadeKing
I don't get alot of things about this but she only wanted Adel over Rinoa cause Adel was more mature with her powers than Rinoa was at the time. Also Adel died before she even attempted to start compression.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PSV3FeaCgc&feature=related

She begins compressing time then and begins using that horrific final boss tactics in which she can lower your health to 1 & then do the same move which won't do anything... FF needs to work on their final fights ermm

Burning thought
Hm strange, so i am guessing the representation of time compression is the beginning? little stars and things floating around/towards her?

But what is that thing she is? it looks like nothing ive seen depicting her apart from your image a few pages back, it cant seem to move much so speed probably goes out the window in this form. Although it says little about time compression apart from Ultemecia said it "will" compress so its not happened yet and take some time thats for sure.

Darkstorm Zero
The time compression was already underway once she reached this form. It already began (Thats why at the end, the group was scattered throughout the timelines)

Burning thought
The stars and things disapeared when she arrived and tried to attack the team, perhaps she cannot hold time compression while actually fighting herself. Although at the end of the battle I thought she was dieing, I thought she was the one scattered?

SpadeKing
any members who fall in the final battle are absorbed into time also.

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