Revan strengths

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Kotor3
The knowledge that we do have of Revan how would you classify him in terms of power and skill?

Slash_KMC
There is a reason we call him an unknown...

Eminence
no expression

Wolverine2179
revan = phail.

Lord Lucien
For f*ckssake...

Slash_KMC
Yeah... Exactly.

truejedi
i would like to put one more comment here putting out how unknown Revan is. He is VERY unknown.

In fact, it was quite some time after his star wars invention that it was even concretely established that he was even male. There was someone on KMC, (i dont' remember who) that still called revan "her" even years later, and that was fine, because so little was known about revan, that no one even cared.

so.... Revan's known powers:

"Being male."

Slash_KMC
I think it was Exodus who called him, a her.

truejedi
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I think it was Exodus who called him, a her.
i knew it was either him or Darth Sexy, but i didn't want to attribute it to the wrong one. thanks.
(lol, Red, that is totally one help from Slash_KMC for me!)

Red Nemesis
Hey slash, um... you misplaced a comma. FYI.


See, I can be a helper too! big grin

(Go easy on me. Plz? I've never thrown up this much before.)

Nephthys
I still stand by that actually.

I'm a rebel like that.excellent

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Hey slash, um... you misplaced a comma. FYI.


See, I can be a helper too! big grin

(Go easy on me. Plz? I've never thrown up this much before.)

Well you, didn't ehm, like, use... a... capital letter on my name.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I still stand by that actually.

I'm a rebel like that.excellent

Yes, you're the reason why stuff fails.

Red Nemesis
Hurtful comments aren't very helpful Slash.

Neph, Revan is canonically male.

It doesn't really matter though, since we shouldn't be using Revan anyway. Feel free to continue using any pronoun for him Revan that you would like to.

Autokrat
Revan is not a complete unknown. We certainly don't know a lot about the specifics of what he can do, but we do know that he was obviously powerful.

At the very least, defeating Malak on board the Star Forge puts him up there, since according to Drew, Malak was getting a massive boost just being on the Star Forge (email). We also know that Malak is hardly a pushover, considering that Malak was the only other person besides Revan that could keep the Star Forge running without being "devoured" (DS Bastila).

We also know that Revan had a shitton of dark side knowledge that was enough make Bane to crap his pants.

Instead of a complete unknown, Revan is like an outline that hasn't been colored in, we have no specific example of him doing anything, but we do have a moderate sense of where he is on the power scale.

That being said, he's still too much of a mystery to be used in vs fights.

truejedi
Originally posted by Autokrat
Revan is not a complete unknown. We certainly don't know a lot about the specifics of what he can do, but we do know that he was obviously powerful.

At the very least, defeating Malak on board the Star Forge puts him up there, since according to Drew, Malak was getting a massive boost just being on the Star Forge (email). We also know that Malak is hardly a pushover, considering that Malak was the only other person besides Revan that could keep the Star Forge running without being "devoured" (DS Bastila).

We also know that Revan had a shitton of dark side knowledge that was enough make Bane to crap his pants.

Instead of a complete unknown, Revan is like an outline that hasn't been colored in, we have no specific example of him doing anything, but we do have a moderate sense of where he is on the power scale.

That being said, he's still too much of a mystery to be used in vs fights.
I was thinking about that this morning: We know a few of his techniques from the Bane novels. The only problem is, we don't know anything about his combat style. We don't know if he used a lightsaber, or if he was a mercenary who never used the force in combat, for example. He could have also been a cloaked sort of character who rarely engaged in combat. He was powerful, we know that, but we don't know if he was any good in combat.

Red Nemesis
Well, we know that he engaged the one Echani General in H2H, don't we?

Slash_KMC
Who?

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by Autokrat
Revan is not a complete unknown. We certainly don't know a lot about the specifics of what he can do, but we do know that he was obviously powerful.

At the very least, defeating Malak on board the Star Forge puts him up there, since according to Drew, Malak was getting a massive boost just being on the Star Forge (email). We also know that Malak is hardly a pushover, considering that Malak was the only other person besides Revan that could keep the Star Forge running without being "devoured" (DS Bastila).

We also know that Revan had a shitton of dark side knowledge that was enough make Bane to crap his pants.

Instead of a complete unknown, Revan is like an outline that hasn't been colored in, we have no specific example of him doing anything, but we do have a moderate sense of where he is on the power scale.

That being said, he's still too much of a mystery to be used in vs fights.

We know he defeated Malak, and was standing over him with a lightsaber. But we don't know the specifics of the fight, he may have used mines or grenades. I am sure he's more powerful than Malak, but people may argue he didn't beat him fair and square.

Incanus
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Who? Yusanis

Lord Lucien
Yusanis, yes. We just don't know exactly how or by which specific methods. Same goes for Mandalore, Bandon, Calo Nord, Malak, etc. He was powerful and he was very skilled, we just don't know in which ways.

Incanus
Uh, actually in KOTOR 2 Canderous said he fought him in H2H combat........

Kotor3
http://www.eucantina.net/interview-with-drew-k

From the interview with Drew it seems that we will never get a full picture of Revan or his skills. Revan is a servant of light and darkness. I have an idea of what that means. I wish they would clarify his character.

Slash_KMC
'For me Revan will always be that shadowy figure with no true form or substance, representative of nothing and everything at the same time.'

Well damnit.

Autokrat
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
We know he defeated Malak, and was standing over him with a lightsaber. But we don't know the specifics of the fight, he may have used mines or grenades. I am sure he's more powerful than Malak, but people may argue he didn't beat him fair and square.

The mines and grenades argument is one of the most retarded concepts ever to be put forward by the SWVF's finest.

"Hey Malak, what's up? Give me a second will you while I set up these mines! Even though we are probably fighting at speeds faster than the eye can blink on a supercharged dark side space station!"

"Hey Malak, can you not repulse my grenades with the Force even though you could probably easily dodge them anyways?"

See my point? I think one can assume within reason that Revan went toe to toe with Malak and beat him.

ares834
Originally posted by Incanus
Uh, actually in KOTOR 2 Canderous said he fought him in H2H combat........
Quote Please

Ms.Marvel
Originally posted by Autokrat
The mines and grenades argument is one of the most retarded concepts ever to be put forward by the SWVF's finest.

"Hey Malak, what's up? Give me a second will you while I set up these mines! Even though we are probably fighting at speeds faster than the eye can blink on a supercharged dark side space station!"

"Hey Malak, can you not repulse my grenades with the Force even though you could probably easily dodge them anyways?"

See my point? I think one can assume within reason that Revan went toe to toe with Malak and beat him.

i disagree. the sheer fact that grenades do splash damage means that the chances of him being able to simply TK them away without getting damaged is highly improbable. not everyone is so idiotic as to just toss a grenade at someone and wait for them to throw it back ala Force Unleashed and jedi outcast.

Slash_KMC

Autokrat
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
i disagree. the sheer fact that grenades do splash damage means that the chances of him being able to simply TK them away without getting damaged is highly improbable. not everyone is so idiotic as to just toss a grenade at someone and wait for them to throw it back ala Force Unleashed and jedi outcast.

Alright... I'm going to ask you do something before you post. I'm going to ask you to think before you post. Malak is a Sith Lord of considerable power. Now, I ask you, do you think he can move fast enough to avoid a grenade? Do you think he could Force Push a grenade away rather easily? Go on, think about it.



I'm not treating anything as fact, I'm saying it is a reasonable assumption that Revan and Malak went at with sabers and Force.



I could care less what Wookipeedia said, I didn't say it, some random dude placed it in the article. Address my points, not the Wooki's.



We have more evidence and reason to assume that Revan and Malak had your typical grassroots duel then to think that Revan would just whip out a blaster and shoot Malak, which also assumes Malak is going to fail and block a blaster bolt etc. In this you suddenly create more variables than there were to begin with, looking for a more complex explanation than is necessary.



Your correct, but we have more reason to think it was than to think otherwise. Occam's Razor FTW.

Incanus
Originally posted by ares834
Quote Please Damn it, now I have to play KOTOR 2 again and focus on Mandalore, damn it.

Lord Lucien
What are you people arguing about? Qel Droma's vision shows Revan standing over Malak's corpse with a blue lightsaber drawn. Lightsaber fight. But exactly what happened during that fight, nobody knows.

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by Autokrat
I'm not treating anything as fact, I'm saying it is a reasonable assumption that Revan and Malak went at with sabers and Force.

I wasn't saying you were treating it as fact. Notice how I never said the word you.

I'm just looking for the line between what's proven (facts) and logical deduction.



I was using this as an example of how people, not you, were stretching that line and automatically converting this logical deduction to a fact. Thus using that in Versus debates, which is why I do not like Revan being used in fights.



I'm curious, what exactly is all this evidence?

There were fights in Star Wars that weren't normal. Like how Obi-Wan defeated Grievous, with a blaster, or when he beat Maul. He didn't beat Maul because he was better, but because Maul got cocky (imagine if you knew nothing of them and were only told that Obi-Wan beat Maul, maybe you'd think that Obi-Wan was better.) Maybe something similar happened on the Star Forge, maybe not, we just don't know. You can't choose for the simplest explanation, because you just don't know how exactly the fight occurred.

Red Nemesis
Parsimony doesn't apply to history, not when two incredible personalities meet. There's a reason Psychohistory doesn't work on individuals.

truejedi
Originally posted by Autokrat
The mines and grenades argument is one of the most retarded concepts ever to be put forward by the SWVF's finest.

"Hey Malak, what's up? Give me a second will you while I set up these mines! Even though we are probably fighting at speeds faster than the eye can blink on a supercharged dark side space station!"

"Hey Malak, can you not repulse my grenades with the Force even though you could probably easily dodge them anyways?"

See my point? I think one can assume within reason that Revan went toe to toe with Malak and beat him.

problem with that, he could have went stealth, SNUCK around the room, setting the mines. Sounds stupid, but within the SAME framework of the game that gave us the Malak vs. Revan fight (Malak is an unknown too, btw, so its all moot...) it is possible to do just that.

Oh, and he didn't necessarly beat the Echani. That was optional. You could leave without doing that.

truejedi

truejedi
Originally posted by Autokrat
Alright... I'm going to ask you do something before you post. I'm going to ask you to think before you post. Malak is a Sith Lord of considerable power. Now, I ask you, do you think he can move fast enough to avoid a grenade? Do you think he could Force Push a grenade away rather easily? Go on, think about it.



I'm not treating anything as fact, I'm saying it is a reasonable assumption that Revan and Malak went at with sabers and Force.



I could care less what Wookipeedia said, I didn't say it, some random dude placed it in the article. Address my points, not the Wooki's.



We have more evidence and reason to assume that Revan and Malak had your typical grassroots duel then to think that Revan would just whip out a blaster and shoot Malak, which also assumes Malak is going to fail and block a blaster bolt etc. In this you suddenly create more variables than there were to begin with, looking for a more complex explanation than is necessary.



Your correct, but we have more reason to think it was than to think otherwise. Occam's Razor FTW.

yes, we all BELIEVE it was a straigtforward duel. Of course we do. We all BELIEVE that Revan was a sith of INCREDIBLE power. No one in their right mind actually thinks otherwise. However, unless there is PROOF of how it went down, u can't use his victory over malak as an accolade for Revan. ESPECIALLY since we have NO IDEA how powerful Malak was in the force either. make sense?

oh, and srry about the trip post. I kept finding more things to reply too in the thread.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by truejedi
yes, we all BELIEVE it was a straigtforward duel. Of course we do. We all BELIEVE that Revan was a sith of INCREDIBLE power. No one in their right mind actually thinks otherwise. However, unless there is PROOF of how it went down, u can't use his victory over malak as an accolade for Revan. ESPECIALLY since we have NO IDEA how powerful Malak was in the force either. make sense?

Autokrat

Lord Lucien

Red Nemesis
No. Parsimony doesn't work on individuals, especially in Star Wars. Will of the Force, remember? Lampshaded by something about Malak falling from the sky & not batting an eyelash?

That said,

This is acceptable.

Ms.Marvel
Originally posted by Autokrat
Alright... I'm going to ask you do something before you post.
I'm going to ask you to think before you post.


im going to ask you to calm down before you make a further ass out of yourself, Mr. Bale. no expression

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk208/pamiriver/angry-christian-bale-screams-shouts.jpg



no i dont think he can travel 30 feet which is the usual range of shrapnel released from a grenade, in under a second.




i dont if he can force push away a bunch of razor sharp shrapnel.

but i do know that grenades can be cooked so that they explode a second or two after being thrown and i do know that it would be possible for revan to create a distraction that would prevent malak from pushing away a grenade in time. the revan I played was smart like that.



Occam's Razor is a contradiction of logic itself. i dont know why people insist on using it.

Red Nemesis
Elaborate. The principle of parsimony is not illogical?

Ms.Marvel
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Elaborate.

ask nicely?

Slash_KMC
Nemmy doesn't do the nice stuff.

He's not very helpfull.

Ms.Marvel
**** 'em then. sad

Red Nemesis
Slash, you're going to get reported someday for impersonating an dministrator!



Ms.M, would you help me understand your objection to Occam's razor?

Ms.Marvel
please, mutha ****er. can you say it?! >;\

Slash_KMC
Hey, Nemmy actually tried to be nice now, what most people on these forums won't do.

Red Nemesis
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Hey, Nemmy actually tried to be nice now, what most people on these forums won't do.

Are you joking Slash?

I was nice even before I was a helper, just ask TJ! (Slash) might not have]

Ms.M, please explain this? helping (also by allowing Marvel to win the power struggle)]

~:Mr.Anderson:~
Red has always been nice.

(I see no grammatical errors there. I think that I am safe from his wrath.)

Red Nemesis
I also see no grammatical errors.

Eminence
Neither of you "Helpers" have actually put that as your title. no expression

Do it.

~:Mr.Anderson:~
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I also see no grammatical errors. Awesome.

truejedi
Red has always been nice, it is true . (and though i'm helping, i'm not a helper per se, so i'll avoid pointing out that i just helped by reinforcing Red's bid to niceness)

Oh, and one thing back on topic:
Autokrat: Why do you think Malak is a Sith lord of considerable power?

He fired a ship at Revan, to take the title of Sith Lord.
He once Froze Revan with some kinda mental attack. (You based Revan's power off of his victory over Malak remember? so w/o circular reasoning, what does Malak freezing Revan really do for Malak?)

As far as i know, those two things are the only accomplishments malak ever achieves.

So, what is your reasoning, (other than things based on REVAN) for calling Malak a Sith Lord of considerable power?

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Are you joking Slash?


No, I wasn't.

Originally posted by Eminence
Neither of you "Helpers" have actually put that as your title. no expression

Do it.

Check.

Btw, everyone stop helping Nemesis, that's my job.

Red Nemesis
Out-Helps Slash. Check the Kota/Maul thread.

/competition


(The lies above will be dealt with tomorrow.)

mattatom
Slash, Red, Stop it please your wasting valuable memory and annoying most of the forum with your sad race to being the "Best Helper".

Lord Lucien
You all need to shut the hell up and realize that being helpful is pointless, because good is dumb.

mattatom
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
You all need to shut the hell up and realize that being helpful is pointless, because good is dumb.
I have realized that hence why I told them to shut it.

Incanus
Helping is the path to the light side.

Kotor3
Originally posted by truejedi
He fired a ship at Revan, to take the title of Sith Lord.
He once Froze Revan with some kinda mental attack. (You based Revan's power off of his victory over Malak remember? so w/o circular reasoning, what does Malak freezing Revan really do for Malak?) Sidious killed his Master in his sleep and we do not know the circumstances behind that or how powerful Sidious was at the time of him doing so. Sill you would not call Sidious weak. Sidious tried to run from Yoda, was defeated by Mace in ROTS. Still you would not call Sidious weak why because of quotes stating him as the most sith.

In Kotor the only known person out of thousands of Sith and Jedi that could defeat Malak was Revan. Malak losing to Revan who could not be defected in his era does not show him to be weak or average. All evidence such as the force techniques that Malak displayed shows him to be a Sith Lord of considerable power.

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by Kotor3
Sidious killed his Master in his sleep and we do not know the circumstances behind that or how powerful Sidious was at the time of him doing so. Sill you would not call Sidious weak. Sidious tried to run from Yoda, was defeated by Mace in ROTS. Still you would not call Sidious weak why because of quotes stating him as the most sith.

In Kotor the only known person out of thousands of Sith and Jedi that could defeat Malak was Revan. Malak losing to Revan who could not be defected in his era does not show him to be weak or average. All evidence such as the force techniques that Malak displayed shows him to be a Sith Lord of considerable power.

I kind of agree with you, but the way you said this was weird. You cannot compare Sidious to Revan, because Sidious has incredible feats besides those quotes. Revan and Malak just have that number 1 and 2 thing going on.

Kotor3
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I kind of agree with you, but the way you said this was weird. You cannot compare Sidious to Revan, because Sidious has incredible feats besides those quotes. Revan and Malak just have that number 1 and 2 thing going on.

I understand your point. I personally do not know of that many great feats for Sidious as of ROTS. The point I am making is that Sidious as of ROTS we know is powerful because of the quotes stating so and the way he is portrayed in the movies.

The same in terms of quotes and the way the characters (Revan and Malak) are portrayed in Kotor can be said of Revan and Malak.

Red Nemesis
Your point is wrong. (Unless I'm not reading you right, in which case: my bad!)

Revan and Malak are given a great deal of exposition and not a lot of action. That is, with Revan especially, we are told that they are 'greats' without having it proved to us. Sidious is a different case. Sidious is shown to have a very great degree of mastery (clouding a bajillion Jedi and darkening Coruscant) and skill (vs Yoda). He is also the target of accolades, but his claim to fame does not rest solely upon them. The situations are a bit different.

Kotor3

Lord Lucien

Kotor3
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
What are you talking about? We don't claim that Revan or Malak aren't "powerful". We claim they have no feats to their name thereby rendering their use as versus combatants nonexistent.

Tell that to truejedi. Be honest, did you read any of the previous comments besides the last two?

Incanus
I wish they gave Revan and Malak feats that could be applied. Then we would have more people to make fight.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Kotor3
Tell that to truejedi. Be honest, did you read any of the previous comments besides the last two? Yes, I did. And I understand them perfectly. He, like myself and everyone else with a rational head on their shoulders, does not in any way argue against the fact that Revan was powerful. We argue against people who claim to have a definitive gauge for his power.

Kotor3
Who on this entire tread was trying to give a definitive gauge for Revan or Malak's powers? The only two points that were made was that Revan and Malak are not complete unknowns and there is no reason to believe that the battle between Revan and Malak was fought any other way then we know a Jedi and Sith to fight.

Second, they both were powerful users of the force thus it makes no since to speculate that other devices were used in there battle since we have no indication of such.

Ms.Marvel
youre wrong.

truejedi
Originally posted by Kotor3
Sidious killed his Master in his sleep and we do not know the circumstances behind that or how powerful Sidious was at the time of him doing so. Sill you would not call Sidious weak. Sidious tried to run from Yoda, was defeated by Mace in ROTS. Still you would not call Sidious weak why because of quotes stating him as the most sith.
.

Are you serious? No one calls Sidious powerful BECAUSE he killed Plageuis in his sleep. People call Sidious powerful because of this:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t508764.html

Geez. I personally believe Malak was pretty powerful. But I can't prove that. And i'm pointing out that you can't either, hence the very nature of an unknown.

It seems as thought maybe you have just watched the movies concerning sidiuos.

I am still open to be persuaded that Malak's abilities ARE provable, but you will have to do better than " You can't prove sidious was powerful," Because that has been done, many many many times.

truejedi
just went past my edit time... grrr.

There are no quotes putting Malak on Par with Revan. 2nd, any quotes gauging revan's power are from IN-UNIVERSE characters as of KOTOR. They have no way of comparing him to anything but previous sith (which Kreia said were WAY MORE powerful than Revan) or current force users, of which we have no gauge.

Now, iF sidious was the most powerful sith of all time (multiple sources) and Revan was < Ancient Sith<Sidious and malak is <<< than REVAN. He has no real basis of comparitive power. I'm just asking for an anchor point. I don't blame you for being unable to provide one. I've looked for it myself. It doesn't exist.

No hard feelings, just enjoying the discussion.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Kotor3
Who on this entire tread was trying to give a definitive gauge for Revan or Malak's powers? The only two points that were made was that Revan and Malak are not complete unknowns and there is no reason to believe that the battle between Revan and Malak was fought any other way then we know a Jedi and Sith to fight.

Second, they both were powerful users of the force thus it makes no since to speculate that other devices were used in there battle since we have no indication of such. What those two ^ said.

Kotor3

truejedi

Aklis
Do we see any of the Sith in game rely solely on saber combat, except for the sissies you fight during the hunt for the Star Maps and the sissies in the Korriban Academy, (Female Character during some quest thing)?

It has been stated Malak was a Jedi Guardian prior to him becoming a Sith Lord. That means that he was first and foremost a saber combatant.

In any fight from the films, could any of you picture the resident bad guy running around draining captured Jedi? I sure as hell can't. That was probably just added for difficulty and for a more last-boss-battle feel.

Many of you guys' argument just scream about how little you've actually thought about it before posting it. That it not a comment about your intelligence, so don't get insulted.

While what feats we've seen from Malak aren't very major, mostly being the convertion of Bastila, we can't deny that he must have had some power compared to the other Sith and Jedi of his time.

As for Revan, and your pathetic arguments about him maybe stealthing and using mines and grenades. It has been stated that he went face to face with Yusanis and Mandalore the Ultimate, both skilled fighters.

Canderous stated that "You, Revan, are the single greatest warrior of this age, and any battle we fight will bring me honor." That coming from a man who went to become Mandalore is rather high praise. I think that Canderous knew what he was on about.

Also. Who thinks that he killed two Terentateks using stealth and mines?

And who votes for lightsaber(s) and Force Powers?

For the not-certain-if-Rev-used-lightsabers-argument, it is confirmed that he did. At least before his amnesia, as he ignites his saber in the vision where you see him get ready to fight Bastila and her boarding party.

He also uses the ready stance for Juyo in the same cutscene. That might be unintentional, though.

From what I've read about the new comic (Haven't actually read it), Revan doesn't seem like a grenade-hurling coward, and while it doesn't really focus on him and Malak, it does seem to back it up that he is a skilled fighter.

My take on Revan, though, especially in the versus forum, is that he 'becomes' an Unknown after his amnesia, seeing as he has no defined personality or feats except that which is stated as canon and obvious (Such as him being a light side male that killed Malak).

To use a metaphor to explain my take on Revan and Malak's situation as Sith, Revan found and ran with the ball, before Malak kicked him down from behind and ran himself, until he got punched in the face by Revan, who now was the goalkeeper.


As a last note--



I think he knew Drain. When he searched Korriban, the amount of knowledge there was vast, and he also had access to the Trayus Academy on Malachor V.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Aklis
Do we see any of the Sith in game rely solely on saber combat, except for the sissies you fight during the hunt for the Star Maps and the sissies in the Korriban Academy, (Female Character during some quest thing)?

It has been stated Malak was a Jedi Guardian prior to him becoming a Sith Lord. That means that he was first and foremost a saber combatant.

In any fight from the films, could any of you picture the resident bad guy running around draining captured Jedi? I sure as hell can't. That was probably just added for difficulty and for a more last-boss-battle feel.

Many of you guys' argument just scream about how little you've actually thought about it before posting it. That it not a comment about your intelligence, so don't get insulted.

While what feats we've seen from Malak aren't very major, mostly being the convertion of Bastila, we can't deny that he must have had some power compared to the other Sith and Jedi of his time.

As for Revan, and your pathetic arguments about him maybe stealthing and using mines and grenades. It has been stated that he went face to face with Yusanis and Mandalore the Ultimate, both skilled fighters.

Canderous stated that "You, Revan, are the single greatest warrior of this age, and any battle we fight will bring me honor." That coming from a man who went to become Mandalore is rather high praise. I think that Canderous knew what he was on about.

Also. Who thinks that he killed two Terentateks using stealth and mines?

And who votes for lightsaber(s) and Force Powers?

For the not-certain-if-Rev-used-lightsabers-argument, it is confirmed that he did. At least before his amnesia, as he ignites his saber in the vision where you see him get ready to fight Bastila and her boarding party.

He also uses the ready stance for Juyo in the same cutscene. That might be unintentional, though.

From what I've read about the new comic (Haven't actually read it), Revan doesn't seem like a grenade-hurling coward, and while it doesn't really focus on him and Malak, it does seem to back it up that he is a skilled fighter.

My take on Revan, though, especially in the versus forum, is that he 'becomes' an Unknown after his amnesia, seeing as he has no defined personality or feats except that which is stated as canon and obvious (Such as him being a light side male that killed Malak).

To use a metaphor to explain my take on Revan and Malak's situation as Sith, Revan found and ran with the ball, before Malak kicked him down from behind and ran himself, until he got punched in the face by Revan, who now was the goalkeeper.


As a last note--



I think he knew Drain. When he searched Korriban, the amount of knowledge there was vast, and he also had access to the Trayus Academy on Malachor V. The grenade and stealth examples are just our way of conveying the message to new members and the ignorant fanboys that, no matter what may seem like the most reasonable result, or the least far fetched, we can not, while abiding by canon, place Revan anywhere in the Sith or Jedi hierarchy in terms of power and skill. Those who cite his victory over Malak as a clear gauge of Revan's standing forget (or purposefully overlook) the fact that Malak, Yusanis, Mandalore, and anyone else he fought, can not themselves be placed due to lack of inter-era comparisons and detailed canonical descriptions.

Aklis
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Those who cite his victory over Malak as a clear gauge of Revan's standing forget (or purposefully overlook) the fact that Malak, Yusanis, Mandalore, and anyone else he fought, can not themselves be placed due to lack of inter-era comparisons and detailed canonical descriptions.

Point. I didn't, however, actually state how strong he was compared to say, Bane or Sidious, I just pointed things out about that he must have been fairly strong compared to others in his time.

Though, before Bane was confirmed to be the "Sith'ari", Revan was a candidate, which may (Though not possible to confirm due to lack of material) give us a clue as to his strength compared to other Sith Lords.

Lord Lucien
Eh, from what I remember of the Sith'ari thing, it doesn't actually take "The best, arooound. Nothing's ever gonna keep him down". Just someone who can get the job done---like Bane. Crafty little bugger.

Incanus
From what I have saw about that legend, the Sith;ari is "a perfect being. Perfect strength, perfect......" Yuthura explains it in KOTOR.

Aklis
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Eh, from what I remember of the Sith'ari thing, it doesn't actually take "The best, arooound. Nothing's ever gonna keep him down". Just someone who can get the job done---like Bane. Crafty little bugger.

Note that I even wrote 'clue' in italics.

And, as Incanus wrote, the Sith'ari is, as quoted from Yuthura Ban; "One who has freed themselves from all restrictions has reached perfection, their potential fulfilled. Perfect strength, perfect power, perfect destiny. Imagine it."

Autokrat
Sounds like Neiztche's overman... merged with Aristotle's concept of self realization.

Those elitist bastards.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Aklis
Note that I even wrote 'clue' in italics.

And, as Incanus wrote, the Sith'ari is, as quoted from Yuthura Ban; "One who has freed themselves from all restrictions has reached perfection, their potential fulfilled. Perfect strength, perfect power, perfect destiny. Imagine it." Unless the Sith'ari is Aslan, it sounds like hyperbole.

Incanus
Nah, Bane would wtfpwn Aslan. IDC about armageddon, ooooh, I can destroy a world for no reason!!!! OOOOOH, NO ONE [email protected] so could the DEATH STAR, WHAT NOW?????

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
We know he defeated Malak, and was standing over him with a lightsaber. But we don't know the specifics of the fight, he may have used mines or grenades. I am sure he's more powerful than Malak, but people may argue he didn't beat him fair and square.
So you think that Revan invited some photographers at that spot, ignited his Light-saber, and posed for them over fallen Malak to show the world how fair and square he was during the duel - hiding from the world the supposed truth that he actually used grenades and mines against Malak to defeat him? Do you understand that how silly it sounds?

Duron Qel Droma actually saw a vision of the final moments of Revan's duel with Malak.

Gideon
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So you think that Revan invited some photographers at that spot, ignited his Light-saber, and posed for them over fallen Malak to show the world how fair and square he was during the duel - hiding from the world the supposed truth that he actually used grenades and mines against Malak to defeat him? Do you understand that how silly it sounds?

Duron Qel Droma actually saw a vision of the final moments of Revan's duel with Malak.

Dude! You seem to communicate in such a rigid manner. What is up with that, dawg? Why are you capitalizing the 'L' in Light-saber? Hmm? Well, dawg? What is up with that, man?

Does Revan, who is a master of Force whirlwind and Force crush, have Photo-graphers on speed dial?

Dude!

...

William Shatner called and said his Captain Kirk routine is copyrighted.

131

Nephthys
That was mean. And to be honest it doesn't really matter how Revan beat Malak. If he used grenades, it just means he's that good with grenades, and would beat malak level combatants with grenades again. Sabers, same thing. Force, same thing. Revan is at the established level of having defeated Malak at least twice in a row, so who cares how he did it, becuase she'll always be on that level no matter what she used to do it.

Gideon
no

And Revan, for the final time, is a guy.

/argument

Nephthys
\argument

'Never compromise, even in the face of Armageddon.'
- Rorschach

Gideon
YOU WILL SUBMIT, WHORE!

(it's a pick up line of mine. big grin)

truejedi
Originally posted by Gideon
YOU WILL SUBMIT, WHORE!

(it's a pick up line of mine. big grin)

laughing laughing

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So you think that Revan invited some photographers at that spot, ignited his Light-saber, and posed for them over fallen Malak to show the world how fair and square he was during the duel - hiding from the world the supposed truth that he actually used grenades and mines against Malak to defeat him? Do you understand that how silly it sounds?

Duron Qel Droma actually saw a vision of the final moments of Revan's duel with Malak.

My god, do you really have to reply to something I said more than 2 weeks ago. Notice how I said before that I actually think Revan is more powerful, or didn't you see that?

Yes, he saw the final moments of their duel. You know what happened in my last moments of the duel, I whipped out my lightsaber to slash down the weakened Malak. It is not likely, but it is possible that Malak was injured by a fury of grenades at the beginning of the battle and then Revan duelled and killed Malak in a short lightsaber fight.

So until we get some actual proof and not just a vision of the final moments, we can't use it as fact, like I said a few times before. Imagine if we just saw the end of Anakin Vs Obi-Wan (not when Anakin was pushing Obi back), Obi-Wan Vs Maul (not when Maul was actually owning Obi), Luke Vs Vader (not where Vader was dominating until Luke used the Dark Side), Dooku vs Anakin and Obi-Wan (before the duo switched the lightsaber styles) or Sidious Vs Mace (not when Sidious was actually pushing Mace until Mace intensively used Vapaad).

But I know it's hard to accept, especially for a fanboy like you, that Revan is an unknown and according to an interview someone posted here, he will stay that way.

Elite Hunter
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
My god, do you really have to reply to something I said more than 2 weeks ago. /B]

It's a sw legend, he'll a revive a month old thread to talk about revan's uberness.

*ApathyIsDeath*
Originally posted by Nephthys
That was mean. And to be honest it doesn't really matter how Revan beat Malak. If he used grenades, it just means he's that good with grenades, and would beat malak level combatants with grenades again. Sabers, same thing. Force, same thing. Revan is at the established level of having defeated Malak at least twice in a row, so who cares how he did it, becuase she'll always be on that level no matter what she used to do it.

Why do you keep switching between Revan being male and female?

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by *ApathyIsDeath*
Why do you keep switching between Revan being male and female?

He's annoying like that.

Red Nemesis
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
My god, do you really have to reply to something I said more than 2 weeks ago. Notice how I said before that I actually think Revan is more powerful, or didn't you see that?

Yes, he saw the final moments of their duel. You know what happened in my last moments of the duel, I whipped out my lightsaber to slash down the weakened Malak. It is not likely, but it is possible that Malak was injured by a fury of grenades at the beginning of the battle and then Revan duelled and killed Malak in a short lightsaber fight.

So until we get some actual proof and not just a vision of the final moments, we can't use it as fact, like I said a few times before. Imagine if we just saw the end of Anakin Vs Obi-Wan (not when Anakin was pushing Obi back), Obi-Wan Vs Maul (not when Maul was actually owning Obi), Luke Vs Vader (not where Vader was dominating until Luke used the Dark Side), Dooku vs Anakin and Obi-Wan (before the duo switched the lightsaber styles) or Sidious Vs Mace (not when Sidious was actually pushing Mace until Mace intensively used Vapaad).

But I know it's hard to accept, especially for a fanboy like you, that Revan is an unknown and according to an interview someone posted here, he will stay that way.

OH GOSH SO MUCH WIN

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
My god, do you really have to reply to something I said more than 2 weeks ago. Notice how I said before that I actually think Revan is more powerful, or didn't you see that?
Two weeks isn't that old. I have seen debates continuing in far older threads. If you believe that Revan was more powerful, you should have sticked to that notion instead of bringing mines and grenades in to the equation. Sounds like you wanted some attention.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Yes, he saw the final moments of their duel. You know what happened in my last moments of the duel, I whipped out my lightsaber to slash down the weakened Malak. It is not likely, but it is possible that Malak was injured by a fury of grenades at the beginning of the battle and then Revan duelled and killed Malak in a short lightsaber fight.
And Malak was allowing Revan to hurl grenades at him? What about his Force moves?

Malak wasn't missing some of his body parts in Qel Droma's vision and neither in the final cutscene in KOTOR game. Explosives can do lots of damage to human bodies. Just think about it.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
So until we get some actual proof and not just a vision of the final moments, we can't use it as fact, like I said a few times before. Imagine if we just saw the end of Anakin Vs Obi-Wan (not when Anakin was pushing Obi back), Obi-Wan Vs Maul (not when Maul was actually owning Obi), Luke Vs Vader (not where Vader was dominating until Luke used the Dark Side), Dooku vs Anakin and Obi-Wan (before the duo switched the lightsaber styles) or Sidious Vs Mace (not when Sidious was actually pushing Mace until Mace intensively used Vapaad).
Proof? That vision reveals to us that a lightsaber duel took place between the two. Now I know that the fight is open to speculation and we need more details but the mines and grenades theory is simply absurd.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
But I know it's hard to accept, especially for a fanboy like you, that Revan is an unknown and according to an interview someone posted here, he will stay that way.
What is hard for me to accept: illogical assumptions or proper logical deductions and facts?

Wolverine2179
Revan is too much on an unknown, we know hes powerful legend, but HOW powerful and how great of a combatant is very hard to conclude.

Hes up there in my opinion, while revans knowledge of the force is definatly higher than that of vader and galen mareks, they outclass him when in comes to command of the force.

Red Nemesis
No. You don't get to act superior. Here's why:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Two weeks isn't that old. I have seen debates continuing in far older threads. If you believe that Revan was more powerful, you should have sticked to that notion instead of bringing mines and grenades in to the equation. Sounds like you wanted some attention.
*stuck
The attempt to turn the question around is admirable; turnabout is fair play. The ploy fails here, however, because you used a blatant strawman of Slash's original post after providing it in a quote. So we can see in your original post (the one referred to in Slash's response) that your paraphrasing of Slash's point was blatantly skewed.

Sounds like Revan was insufficiently fellated for your tastes. (pun)



I'm not sure if you've been privy to the 'initiation' by Lucien yet, but the 'Grenades and Mines' line is not (generally) taken literally. It is a shorthand way of illustrating just how vague our knowledge of the duel really is.

Were I to be particularly obstinate then I would insist on a literalist reading of the metaphor: Revan theoretically could have used skill in demolitions to use grenades and mines to distract or maneuver Malak into a corner or some such.

In fact, let's go with that. Prove me wrong.


No you think about it. We have a complete unknown in terms of combat prowess and a near unknown in terms of methodology. The few scraps of knowledge we have suggest that he was a tactical genius. Do you think that he would be unable to use unorthodox methods?


1. It is unlikely, but no more so than any other specific chain of events.
2. The grounds upon which you are dismissing it are absolutely worthless.
2a. Having ignited one's blade does not preclude use of other means of attack; look at Mara Jade vs. Caedus.
3. Given 1 and 2, we can conclude that your argument is weak.
4. Given 3, we can reflect upon how sad that really is, considering you are arguing against a strawman of an in group shorthand.


Well, your track record in this thread would suggest the latter. That you are assuming there was a conventional lightsaber duel based on a brief glimpse of the denouement suggests a preconceived destination that could not be changed, no matter what evidence was presented.

truejedi
this is ridiculous. This revan thing has been hashed and rehashed, and never can anyone prove that revan didn't use mines!! and mines are easy to use, if one is sssstealthy!


As the commander of the Western Hemisphere, and definite superior to SLASH!!! (anger), I hereby declare that SW legend is wrong, and if he wants to know why, he can look it up himself.

Red Nemesis
I'd like to note that while the proof of a negative is impossible, the challenge stands because the series of events in question is at least as likely, based on available evidence, as any other.

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Two weeks isn't that old. I have seen debates continuing in far older threads. If you believe that Revan was more powerful, you should have sticked to that notion instead of bringing mines and grenades in to the equation. Sounds like you wanted some attention.

Sounds like I wanted some attention? No, the annoying thing is that I've been over this before and now have to try and explain it again.



There is a difference between logical deduction and fact. Logical deduction allows you to think that he wouldn't use grenades against Malak. Fact says that because it's in the gameplay and it can't be disproven, Revan was able to use grenades.



He didn't have to be visibily damaged to be weakened, who knows, maybe uber charismatic Revan weakened his mental state by talking him down, like for example telling him stuff from the past.



I really don't know what's so complicated to understand. I already told you that a lightsaber duel may have taken place, but how and what other factors were involved, we don't know. You're right here though, the fight is open to speculation and we need more details. Speculation =/= canon.



Like I said, logical deduction isn't the same as fact. Fact is, Revan defeating Malak on the Star Forge. Logical deduction is, it was probably a fair fight. That doesn't make it a fact though.

S_W_LeGenD
@ Red Nemesis

Using unorthodox methods is a possibility but one may steep to such a level in a scenario where the opponent is too powerful to be challenged head on in a fair duel.

Lets look at a few logical examples:

1. Suppose that the opponent is Luke or Sidious or as powerful. I can imagine Revan using unorthodox means against such potential foes because they might be too powerful for him to challenge head on by fair means. However if he can handle lets say the likes of Dooku, Vader, and Malak, why would he need to use unorthodox methods against them?

2. When Revan encountered a Rancor in Taris, it seems probable to assume that he might have used firearms and explosives to take it down because at that time, he was unable to utilize his vast strength in the force against the creature. However once he reached Lehon to deactivate the shield protecting the Star Forge, he was likely by that time skilled and powerful enough in the applications of the force to take down the Rancors on the planet using the Force.

I am not against assuming things, but they shouldn't be devoid of logics.

Kotor3

Slash_KMC

Kotor3

Nephthys
I agree, Qel-Droma's vision shows us a Malak who isn't blown to bits,

Lord Lucien
But until something comes along that says Revan didn't shoot Malak in the leg at one point... the ambiguity remains.

Ms.Marvel

truejedi
My revan didn't use a melee weapon either.
its not that hard to understand. Did we see a lightsaber wound on Malak either? No. So the "he wasn't blown to bits" argument is lousy.

*ApathyIsDeath*
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Sounds like I wanted some attention? No, the annoying thing is that I've been over this before and now have to try and explain it again.



There is a difference between logical deduction and fact. Logical deduction allows you to think that he wouldn't use grenades against Malak. Fact says that because it's in the gameplay and it can't be disproven, Revan was able to use grenades.

I cannot believe you are accepting the game's mechanics as cannon. People with no armor there can get shot 50 times point blank range with a blaster rifle and survive. They can be stabbed countless times with a lightsaber and not fall, and they can be choked on end without dieing. It's a total BS argument.


Originally posted by Slash_KMC
He didn't have to be visibily damaged to be weakened, who knows, maybe uber charismatic Revan weakened his mental state by talking him down, like for example telling him stuff from the past.

Visibly damaged? You've changed your theory now. Just stick with one. Do you honestly think that someone who was showered with grenades and stepped on frag mines could possibly be in one piece? Jedi can die through conventional means, not just from sabers and the force.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I really don't know what's so complicated to understand. I already told you that a lightsaber duel may have taken place, but how and what other factors were involved, we don't know. You're right here though, the fight is open to speculation and we need more details. Speculation =/= canon.

What's your solution? Record the battle on the Star Forge, then post it here so that this can be over? There can be no winner in this debate because there is no STRICT cannon, Revan could choose any weapon at his disposal to defeat Malak. He could have won with a rubber chicken. Just because there is nothing to disprove my theory, does that make it false? Or true? Neither, because there's no cannon. If you choose to base your argument on "It's not NOT true!", then by all means go ahead. But what purpose would that serve?


Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Like I said, logical deduction isn't the same as fact. Fact is, Revan defeating Malak on the Star Forge. Logical deduction is, it was probably a fair fight. That doesn't make it a fact though.

Prove it.

truejedi
AID, you just so completely contradicted yourself i can't stop myself:

behold:



then




But seriously why the heck are you attacking slash? He's on OUR side?

*ApathyIsDeath*
I was referring to his theory about grenades and mines, because the mechanics of the game are shit, and wouldn't work in real-time. Just to clarify: there is no cannon. It doesn't mean he's wrong, but it also doesn't mean I'm wrong about his BS theory.

He's on OUR side? I just think the use of grenades and mines is shit due to how the combat system works and since there is no proof to back him up. So, there are SIDES?

truejedi
Originally posted by *ApathyIsDeath*
.


What's your solution? Record the battle on the Star Forge, then post it here so that this can be over? There can be no winner in this debate because there is no STRICT cannon, Revan could choose any weapon at his disposal to defeat Malak. He could have won with a rubber chicken. Just because there is nothing to disprove my theory, does that make it false? Or true? Neither, because there's no cannon. If you choose to base your argument on "It's not NOT true!", then by all means go ahead. But what purpose would that serve?




because you said this, and that is exactly the point of those of us who say u cant use revan in combat.

Kotor3
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
because my revan wasnt stupid enough to rely on only his lightsaber and the force... in fact he was more resourceful then strong. smile

That is the problem, we are not discussing your made up video game character Revan. We are discussing the recognize canon character Revan. Revan a jedi fought sith lord Malak on the star forge (canon). Now I will ask again, any examples of Jedi and Sith fighting each other with grenades and mines? If not then the whole concept of saying that such weapons could have been used should be dropped. Speculations should at least have some bases to stand on.

*ApathyIsDeath*
Originally posted by truejedi
because you said this, and that is exactly the point of those of us who say u cant use revan in combat.

Again, I was referring to the grenade idea.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Kotor3
That is the problem, we are not discussing your made up video game character Revan. We are discussing the recognize canon character Revan. Revan a jedi fought sith lord Malak on the star forge (canon). Now I will ask again, any examples of Jedi and Sith fighting each other with grenades and mines? If not then the whole concept of saying that such weapons could have been used should be dropped. Speculations should at least have some bases to stand on. You can't claim a piece of canon exists because it "does not seem like they would do this." When you use Revan in a vs. match and must prove your points, you can not stand before everyone and say "but I felt it was thus" or "complying to canon wasn't convenient at the time."

NOTHING is known about that fight between Malak and Revan. NOTHING is known of Revan and Malak's actual powers. You people need to accept this and continue waiting like the rest of us.

Slash_KMC
Are you freakin' kidding me! Srsly, first read every post of mine and comprehend them, because I hate repeating myself.

Originally posted by *ApathyIsDeath*
I cannot believe you are accepting the game's mechanics as cannon. People with no armor there can get shot 50 times point blank range with a blaster rifle and survive. They can be stabbed countless times with a lightsaber and not fall, and they can be choked on end without dieing. It's a total BS argument.


What are you on about? You don't even know what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that we can't use the fight between Malak and Revan as a fair win, because the fight isn't shown anywhere except in the game, where you could use grenades, mines, blasters and anything else gameplay.

Show where I said the game's mechanics are canon (not cannon).



So this was a response to: "He didn't have to be visibily damaged to be weakened, who knows, maybe uber charismatic Revan weakened his mental state by talking him down, like for example telling him stuff from the past."

Again you don't even know my theory, how can you even say that I've changed it then. I'm giving examples of how the fight could have gone instead of just a lightsaber duel. And I'm still waiting for someone to give me 'facts' to prove that it was a fair and square duel. (And by facts, I don't mean logical deduction).



Why are you telling me this. This is exactly what I've been saying. Again, read and comprehend. And definately don't attack me when you're actually agreeing with me.



Prove what?

Slash_KMC

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by *ApathyIsDeath*
I was referring to his theory about grenades and mines, because the mechanics of the game are shit, and wouldn't work in real-time. Just to clarify: there is no cannon. It doesn't mean he's wrong, but it also doesn't mean I'm wrong about his BS theory.

He's on OUR side? I just think the use of grenades and mines is shit due to how the combat system works and since there is no proof to back him up. So, there are SIDES?

You call a theory you don't even know BS? That's really clever.

Here's my theory:



And stop misspelling canon, it's embarrassing.

Red Nemesis
goodness, there's lotz o fayl in this thread

Slash_KMC
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
goodness, there's lotz o fayl in this thread

We call them, Revan fanboys.

They have returned.





Srsly though, if you're referring to me, I won't create a character on DotOR.

Red Nemesis
Um... I did a major rant defending you. I wouldn't counteract that 11 minutes of my life.

Also: Unless you can point to two separate instances of fayl on your part then it can't even incidentally be referring to you.

So no. I'm not.

Slash_KMC
Okay.

Ehm, I still won't create a character until like, September.

Kotor3

Incanus
Unless it ahs eben stated that jedi and Sith used mines and lightsabers in a direct confrontation(unlike Vestara, Xal, and Ahri in Abyss) then I highly doubt they would. But yeah, your right, we cant say he didnt, even if it makes no sense if he did.

Slash_KMC

Red Nemesis

Ms.Marvel
Originally posted by Kotor3
That is the problem, we are not discussing your made up video game character Revan. We are discussing the recognize canon character Revan. Revan a jedi fought sith lord Malak on the star forge (canon). Now I will ask again, any examples of Jedi and Sith fighting each other with grenades and mines? If not then the whole concept of saying that such weapons could have been used should be dropped. Speculations should at least have some bases to stand on.

maras a jedi but she used plenty of other devices in her fights besides a lightsaber and the force as has luke. smile a real soldier knows to use anything he can to win.

you cant prove in any shape or form that your version is more canon then mine. you cant prove that anyones version of revan is more canon than mine. you cant even prove that my version is unlikely and im restricted in the same way. so youre wasting your time trying to argue this.

truejedi
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
maras a jedi but she used plenty of other devices in her fights besides a lightsaber and the force as has luke. smile a real soldier knows to use anything he can to win.

you cant prove in any shape or form that your version is more canon then mine. you cant prove that anyones version of revan is more canon than mine. you cant even prove that my version is unlikely and im restricted in the same way. so youre wasting your time trying to argue this.

QFT.

Again.

Wolverine2179
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel


you cant prove in any shape or form that your version is more canon then mine. you cant prove that anyones version of revan is more canon than mine. you cant even prove that my version is unlikely and im restricted in the same way. so youre wasting your time trying to argue this. That was ownage.

Allankles
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
maras a jedi but she used plenty of other devices in her fights besides a lightsaber and the force as has luke. smile a real soldier knows to use anything he can to win.

you cant prove in any shape or form that your version is more canon then mine. you cant prove that anyones version of revan is more canon than mine. you cant even prove that my version is unlikely and im restricted in the same way. so youre wasting your time trying to argue this.

I'd usually argue that lightsaber would and should be canon, but you've made a convincing argument.

Aside from Mara, Freedon Nadd was said to have used a blaster and killed many Jedi with it.

truejedi
Bane killed 6 or 7 men with a sniper rifle. Luke blew up a death star with a torpedo.

no proof it has to be a saber.

Mace used the environment to take out Vastor.

Wolverine2179
Hell thanks to ms marvels argument i can simply argue that revan had the option of using conventional means to kill his opponents with blasters, grenades + force and lightsaber.

mattatom
Originally posted by truejedi
Bane killed 6 or 7 men with a sniper rifle. Luke blew up a death star with a torpedo.

no proof it has to be a saber.

Mace used the environment to take out Vastor. Plus don't forget Kyp blew up a couple of galaxies with the Suncrusher.

Kotor3
It seems that there are many examples of fights between force users that consists of weapons other than a lightsaber. I am not familiar with all of the examples mention. If they consist of a direct face to face confrontation between two force users such as a duel than I will accept the fact that we can assume the battle between Revan and Malak could have been fought any type of way.

Autokrat

truejedi
It is circular reasoning actually though.

Simply put, we hear that Revan is powerful because he beat Malak, and Malak is powerful because he froze Revan.



No, to address this: Prove where it takes considerable power to avoid being devoured by the Star Forge. Your only reason so far is that it devoured other Sith. however, they were nameless sith with possibliy miniscule power themselves, so that is a TERRIBLE argument.

Besides, the Star Forge is destroyed in the light-side, Canon ending, so what are you talking about exactly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Revan

Finally, you said Malak was powerful because he managed to keep "the other Sith Lords in line, no small feat I think."

Well, apparently you think wrong, since the most notable Sith we see that he had to "keep in line" was Darth Bandon, a no name, and the worst Sith ever.

Lord Lucien
Truly, until the powers and strengths of their minions is defined, no one can use Malak and Revan's control over said minions as a gauge for their own respective powers.

Ms.Marvel
Originally posted by Autokrat
Cute.

do you need a band-aid?





well then you overrate revans abilities as well as the ability of most jedi imo.

notice however that instead of acting like a pseudo intellectual jackass like many people on the internet do im going to merely say that youre certainly entitled to your opinion and it may even be right. im made up of enough awsomesawce in real life to not feel the need to flex my muscles on the internet.



then dont say anything. just go back to RoK where you belong and talk about how cool the ancient sith are with your buddies. no expression




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iYrhopY-rI4/Ru6b_kFrbQI/AAAAAAAACBo/8n-qqRi_CDk/s200/wahmbulance.jpg

Red Nemesis
http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/facepalm.gif

Ms.Marvel
ya got meh. sad

Autokrat

Ms.Marvel
not my gramamr n0o0o0o0o! youve certaintly proved your dominance in this battle of wits by ignoring my messages and focusing on my grammar. i bet your penis is huge isnt it? i wish i listened to more death metal so ican be cool like you. sad

laughing out loud my friend standing behind me read this reply and was like "youre an *******."

Slash_KMC
What does death metal have to do with anything?

Ms.Marvel
i just typed whatever retarded statements came to mind. laughing out loud

Red Nemesis
Apparently, this is the same as:


Marvel, you don't know what it's like to be GNz'd until I get pedantic and mean at you. Grammar Naziing is sorta my thing. It's what I do. That? That was nothing.

Ms.Marvel
no.

Red Nemesis
k

stick out tongue

Slash_KMC
I wish I was made out of awsomesawce in rl... sad

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