He will join us or die

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coolmovies
vader said to the Emperor luke will join us or die (ESB) was he laying to him ?? i mean he didnt kill him did he?

~:Mr.Anderson:~
well sometimes sith lie. i mean its not because they are bad people, its just that they are misunderstood.

oh and btw vader and sideous eventually were at the point where he would join them or die, at the end of rotj

Jaeh.is.Awesome
he didn't kill him yet. If it came to the point when he has too, he will.

K-Dog
If I remember the fighting between Luke and Vader correctly, while there was a lot of yaking and not enough fighting going on, at one point Luke was blowing on about not wanting to fight and how there was still good beneath the black mask of you-know-who. It was not sinking into that thick skull of Vader, cuz he took a nice swing back at Luke with the red saber. Luke had to re-activate his saber and block it or else he would have been killed. So I think that Vader was willing to chop down his offspring just like he choked the kid's mother and how he mowed through several younglings.
It does take one to know one though, as he had his appendages removed by Dooku/Obi Wan himself.

DarthLazious
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
well sometimes sith lie. i mean its not because they are bad

oh and btw vader and sideous eventually were at the point where he would join them or die, at the end of rotj

That sounds about right.

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by K-Dog
If I remember the fighting between Luke and Vader correctly, while there was a lot of yaking and not enough fighting going on, at one point Luke was blowing on about not wanting to fight and how there was still good beneath the black mask of you-know-who. It was not sinking into that thick skull of Vader, cuz he took a nice swing back at Luke with the red saber. Luke had to re-activate his saber and block it or else he would have been killed. So I think that Vader was willing to chop down his offspring just like he choked the kid's mother and how he mowed through several younglings.
It does take one to know one though, as he had his appendages removed by Dooku/Obi Wan himself. Or maybe Vader saw that Luke was not to be turned, so decided to kill him to save his own position as Palpatine's right hand.

K-Dog
Watching ESB last night, when Vader was talking to the Emperor via hologram, the Emperor was the one who told Vader that young skywalker must not become a Jedi. DV then brought up the idea that if he could instead be turned to the darkside, he would become a powerful ally. I thought that was interesting because the Emperor quickly agreed with him, even though I'm assuming they both knew there could only be 2 Sith. Hmm, it seems that a potential conflict of who would be the 2 of the potential 3 was created at that point.

Placidity
Originally posted by K-Dog
Watching ESB last night, when Vader was talking to the Emperor via hologram, the Emperor was the one who told Vader that young skywalker must not become a Jedi. DV then brought up the idea that if he could instead be turned to the darkside, he would become a powerful ally. I thought that was interesting because the Emperor quickly agreed with him, even though I'm assuming they both knew there could only be 2 Sith. Hmm, it seems that a potential conflict of who would be the 2 of the potential 3 was created at that point.

It has never been explained in movie canon that there can only be two nor why. Its also possible that Sidious didn't teach him that. And of course, Sidious would've taken up Luke as his new apprentice. Vader already lost his potential at that point.

On the other hand, Vader did say he could overthrow Sidious in Ep III, I wonder if he meant it.

jalek moye
Originally posted by Placidity
It has never been explained in movie canon that there can only be two nor why. Its also possible that Sidious didn't teach him that. And of course, Sidious would've taken up Luke as his new apprentice. Vader already lost his potential at that point.

On the other hand, Vader did say he could overthrow Sidious in Ep III, I wonder if he meant it.
I think Vader planned on hm and Luke taking over

Scarlet Fox
Yeah Vader wanted Luke by his side. Thats how the sith are o.o always killing thier masters in order to BE the master. And Vader could have his own son as his apprentice. shrug

DarthLazious
That would have been interesting to see.

coolmovies
He wanted to save his son from falling

Darth Vader Join me.......... and we will rule the galaxcy as father and son

Kickballjedi
Originally posted by Placidity
It has never been explained in movie canon that there can only be two nor why. Its also possible that Sidious didn't teach him that. And of course, Sidious would've taken up Luke as his new apprentice. Vader already lost his potential at that point.

On the other hand, Vader did say he could overthrow Sidious in Ep III, I wonder if he meant it.


I was just digging through old posts and found this.

It was explained in Episode 1 that there are always 2 only, a master and an apprentice. The interaction between Sidius and Vader in ESB is just both of them realizing Luke's potential- to the Emperor a chance for a new, more powerful apprentice to strengthen the Empire. To Vader- a strong apprentice to help him overthrow the Emperor (which he couldn't do alone) and/or a chance to rule with his son at his side.

I believe once Vader discovered Luke was his son, it threw his mindless devotion to the Dark Side out of whack. We hear Sidius question Vader's feelings a few times in RoTJ. And I think Anakin's faith in his master finally cracks completely when he learns Luke has a sister then sees his son suffering from the Emperor's force lightning. That's too much for any Father to take.

Vensai
Well, at the end of RoTJ, Sidious was killing Luke after he refused to join the dark side. Not sure if Vader would have went through with the threat though.

queeq
And we will never know.

Sadako of Girth
Originally posted by Placidity
It has never been explained in movie canon that there can only be two nor why. Its also possible that Sidious didn't teach him that. And of course, Sidious would've taken up Luke as his new apprentice. Vader already lost his potential at that point.

On the other hand, Vader did say he could overthrow Sidious in Ep III, I wonder if he meant it.

"Always two there are, a master and an apprentice." Yoda, TPM

And Vaders offer to rule the galaxy as father and son in ESB is two again.

You're right too I think with Palpatine seeing Vader as damaged goods/disposable when new potential students come along..he was rescued and salvaged, rebuilt etc, but I definitely got the impression that Palpatine (who killed his own master) would not have blinked in replacing Vader with Luke if he saw the genetic potential in him to be a pre-damage Anakin.

queeq
Me neither.

Vensai
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
"Always two there are, a master and an apprentice." Yoda, TPM

And Vaders offer to rule the galaxy as father and son in ESB is two again.

You're right too I think with Palpatine seeing Vader as damaged goods/disposable when new potential students come along..he was rescued and salvaged, rebuilt etc, but I definitely got the impression that Palpatine (who killed his own master) would not have blinked in replacing Vader with Luke if he saw the genetic potential in him to be a pre-damage Anakin.
Probably. Vader never managed to attain his former power in RoTS.

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