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Ok this is Juggernaut in the death of Superman instead of Doomsday. Juggernaut appears in the same metal box that Doomsday appears in. Can Doomsday make it all the way to Metropolis or will he be stopped by Superman before he gets there. Juggernaut follows same path as DD only difference is Juggs cant jump 12 miles in one leap. Supes cannot throw juggs into outer space.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Ok this is Juggernaut in the death of Superman instead of Doomsday. Juggernaut appears in the same metal box that Doomsday appears in. Can Doomsday make it all the way to Metropolis or will he be stopped by Superman before he gets there. Juggernaut follows same path as DD only difference is Juggs cant jump 12 miles in one leap. Supes cannot throw juggs into outer space. ok I give supes more credit but how he fought DD was dumb, he fought like a brick and in this fight he will do the same so this time he will get kill for shure, Juggernaut will have his head...

Juggernaut will kill him quicker than DD did.

Cain ftw. He is unstoppable.

Originally posted by Survivor19
Cain ftw. He is unstoppable. the more I look at it...ITS SPITE.... the guy has to fight Juggernaut like a brick, he will trade punches with him, thinking if he gives it all and go for broke he could kill this guy too even if it takes his life.. and by doing that he will be digging his grave as he wont even scratch juggernaut´s shiny armour... SPITE SPITE I tell you

What about Juggs vs Doomsday the second time?

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Ok this is Juggernaut in the death of Superman instead of Doomsday. Juggernaut appears in the same metal box that Doomsday appears in. Can Doomsday make it all the way to Metropolis or will he be stopped by Superman before he gets there. Juggernaut follows same path as DD only difference is Juggs cant jump 12 miles in one leap. Supes cannot throw juggs into outer space. Superman will need to BFR Juggernaut into space, or something else beside physical power. If PIS and CIS are off, Superman can always go to the Fortress of Solitude and get weapons to BFR juggernaut

Op specifies PIS is verily on...
Also, since when does Supes needs weapons to BFR Juggy?

Originally posted by Survivor19
Op specifies PIS is verily on...
Also, since when does Supes needs weapons to BFR Juggy?
He said, Superman can't throw him into space.

by follow the same path does that mean he has to fight maxima, guy, and the others there also.

Originally posted by Raptor22
by follow the same path does that mean he has to fight maxima, guy, and the others there also.


Yep he does

if supes and/or one of the others can get juggs helmet off, maxima might be able to do some damage with her tp.

Juggs might be unstoppable, but I don't think he has the same level of strength as DD or Superman. I don't see Juggernaut beating Supes down like that.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Juggs might be unstoppable, but I don't think he has the same level of strength as DD or Superman. I don't see Juggernaut beating Supes down like that. He shows strength to match WWH.

^That Simply put, Juggernaut is raw power, he is as strong as he needs to be, and usually stronger than his opponents.

Originally posted by KingD19
^That Simply put, Juggernaut is raw power, he is as strong as he needs to be, and usually stronger than his opponents.

Same can be said for Superman. IDK which is stronger, but I don't feel like Cain would just one shot him.

One of the reasons DD plowed through the JLA so quickly was his apparent superspeed, this gave Supes problems also.

However DoS Supes sucked so I reckon Juggernaut could beat him like DD did if he gets his hands on him.

Though IMO I think it's going to be difficult for Juggernaut to get through the JLA without a speed advantage. I doubt he'll have an easy time putting Guy and Maxima down with their long range abilities.

Good match up, still undecided here.

Originally posted by KingD19
^That Simply put, Juggernaut is raw power, he is as strong as he needs to be, and usually stronger than his opponents.

Superman is usually as strong as he needs to be too. Can't really put Juggernaut over him IMO with Superman's superior lifting feats. Juggernaut is more about his durability and unstoppable momentum than pure super-strength.

Juggernauts ability to match WWH in pure strength puts him in that strength category IMO, despite the lack of lifting feats and what not.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Juggernauts ability to match WWH in pure strength puts him in that strength category IMO, despite the lack of lifting feats and what not.

He beat WWH in the test of strength because he is unstoppable. However Colossus and even Emma Frost IIRC were drawing blood and rocking WWH. So one fight is hard to tell when it comes to gauging Juggernaut's strength.

He wasn't advancing when they started. He simply overpowered the Hulk.

1) Superman rips the gem of cytorak out of his fat ass and its all over.

2) T-Vo. if Supes can defeat Dominus with T-Vo it will definitely work against Juggs.

3) Speed Blitzzzzzz


Juggs goes down crying like a little *****

Originally posted by shokosugi
1) Superman rips the gem of cytorak out of his fat ass and its all over.

2) T-Vo. if Supes can defeat Dominus with T-Vo it will definitely work against Juggs.

3) Speed Blitzzzzzz


Juggs goes down crying like a little *****

Not really. Juggernaut didn't have the gem on him when re-powered.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
He wasn't advancing when they started. He simply overpowered the Hulk.

Exactly he started to move so therefore became unstoppable. He doesn't have to be stronger than WWH to push him and gain some momentum. Like I said one fight is no basis for judging that Juggernaut is stronger than Superman.

He overpowered him with strength. Juggernauts unstoppability enchantment isn't in effect unless he's already moving.

Originally posted by shokosugi
1) Superman rips the gem of cytorak out of his fat ass and its all over.

2) T-Vo. if Supes can defeat Dominus with T-Vo it will definitely work against Juggs.

3) Speed Blitzzzzzz


Juggs goes down crying like a little *****

The gem isn't inside of him so that wouldn't work.

Is Dominus invulnerable and has a powerful HF like Cain?

The speedblitz won't hurt him, but it will work if he is going for BFR.

Cain isn't fat at all, it's all muscle. I must say I do enjoy biased views against Cain. I can't think of what he did to upset you so much, but meh.

It's because he's in a vs. thread with Superman.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
He overpowered him with strength. Juggernauts unstoppability enchantment isn't in effect unless he's already moving.

You don't have to be stronger than someone to push them around. Rockslide knocked WWH down. Juggernaut wouldn't have to put much effort into moving WWH a little to take one first step and become unstoppable.

Besides I'm not too sure about him not moving before hand, he's dishing out some heavy blows to WWH so I don't he is standing rooted to the spot. That's not how fights go. In fact he was moving before hand as he went after WWH looking for round 2 after being re-powered.

You're not getting anything. My point is he easily showed strength to match WWH and you bring up garbage like Rockslide knocking him down? What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Cain did knock The Stranger on his ass with one punch.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix

Is Dominus invulnerable and has a powerful HF like Cain?




T-vo goes after the mind so invulnerability and HF is absolutely worthless vs. T-vo. and considering Juggs is kind of "weak-minded", this makes it even easier for Supes to defeat him.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
You're not getting anything. My point is he easily showed strength to match WWH and you bring up garbage like Rockslide knocking him down? What the hell does that have to do with anything?

My point is one single fight does not put Juggernaut in the Superman level of strength (not saying he isn't I'm saying it's difficult to judge). Other, weaker charcters had good showings against WWH but they clearly aren't as strong as Superman.

Originally posted by shokosugi
T-vo goes after the mind so invulnerability and HF is absolutely worthless vs. T-vo. and considering Juggs is kind of "weak-minded", this makes it even easier for Supes to defeat him.

And has it gone through mystical things that protects minds, or impenetrable forcefields?

Well, considering Marvel themselves won't commit to who's stronger between Hulk and the Juggernaut, i'll say it isn't unreasonable to assume Juggernaut has the strength to match both Superman and Doomsday.

Doomsday has no lifting feats either, yet I'm sure we can all agree he's pretty darned strong.

Originally posted by The Pict
He beat WWH in the test of strength because he is unstoppable. However Colossus and even Emma Frost IIRC were drawing blood and rocking WWH. So one fight is hard to tell when it comes to gauging Juggernaut's strength. Drawing blood is not matching WWH in strength, which Juggs did, neither one barely did anything to Hulk.

I don't know how you think they 'rocked' him.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
And has it gone through mystical things that protects minds, or impenetrable forcefields?


The Gem of cytorrak doesn't protect Juggs from psychic attacks, his helmet does. All Superman has to do is remove his Helmet and it's all over.

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut13.jpg

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut05.jpg


Juggs is also not totally invulnerable

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut09.jpg

Originally posted by shokosugi
The Gem of cytorrak doesn't protect Juggs from psychic attacks, his helmet does. All Superman has to do is remove his Helmet and it's all over.

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut13.jpg

That's not a psychic attack.

Do you even read your own scans?

Originally posted by shokosugi
The Gem of cytorrak doesn't protect Juggs from psychic attacks, his helmet does. All Superman has to do is remove his Helmet and it's all over.

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut13.jpg

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut05.jpg


Juggs is also not totally invulnerable

http://www.elracano.com/include/jug/juggernaut09.jpg

Context my friend for one. One Juggernaut didn't have his forcefield up in that first one. Also it's not even a psychic attack.

Two, do you know about his fight with Beast? That was when he was actually dead, he was switching from Earth to Oblivion where Eternity sent him for trying to attack him. Cain's powers weren't working properly, he was in a weakened state hence why he reverted to his regular age when he lost his helmet.

Also I'm not doubting that Clark could remove the helmet. The OP also said he was in the DOS mode/mindset, and Clark was fighting with his versatile skills in that fight with DD so he won't be doing it here anyway.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Context my friend for one. One Juggernaut didn't have his forcefield up in that first one. Also it's not even a psychic attack.

Two, do you know about his fight with Beast? That was when he was actually dead, he was switching from Earth to Oblivion where Eternity sent him for trying to attack him. Cain's powers weren't working properly, he was in a weakened state hence why he reverted to his regular age when he lost his helmet.

Also I'm not doubting that Clark could remove the helmet. The OP also said he was in the DOS mode/mindset, and Clark was fighting with his versatile skills in that fight with DD so he won't be doing it here anyway.

Shokosugi done got owned.

Originally posted by shokosugi


Concession accepted.

Originally posted by Mindset
That's not a psychic attack.

Do you even read your own scans?

psychic/telepathic/sonic/whatever. the protection comes from the helmet not the gem and that is my point.

Originally posted by shokosugi
psychic/telepathic/sonic/whatever. the protection comes from the helmet not the gem and that is my point.

Who said the gem protected him from any of those attacks? Pretty obvious point. Also psychic and telepathic are pretty much the same thing.

Originally posted by shokosugi
psychic/telepathic/sonic/whatever. the protection comes from the helmet not the gem and that is my point.

Where do you think his helmet comes from?

Originally posted by shokosugi
psychic/telepathic/sonic/whatever. the protection comes from the helmet not the gem and that is my point. Except it doesn't prove your point because it isn't a psychic attack.

He is also protected by his skull cap, which again, you would know if you actually read your scans.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Concession accepted.

concession? ROFL!

I thought YOU conceeded. )

I am aware of what happened between Beast and Juggs, i was just showing that the gem DOES not protect Juggs from EVERYTHING.

Your argument is that Superman can some how over-power Juggernaut because he died in Oblivion?

Originally posted by shokosugi

I am aware of what happened between Beast and Juggs, i was just showing that the gem DOES not protect Juggs from EVERYTHING. Duh

ROFL the scan clearly shows Juggs is vulnerable to telepathic attacks (Prof. X scan) with his Helmet off theres nothing more to discuss. )

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Your argument is that Superman can some how over-power Juggernaut because he died in Oblivion?

no, just ignore the last scan and focus on the first 2.

Originally posted by shokosugi
concession? ROFL!

I thought YOU conceeded. )

I am aware of what happened between Beast and Juggs, i was just showing that the gem DOES not protect Juggs from EVERYTHING.

Well it protects him from things Cyttorak level and below. Eternity and Oblivion are obviously above him. Clark's strength and abilities are not imo. If you want to be technical about the sonic Nimrod scan, then you can see he waited until he removed the helmet and exposed his ears.

The psychic attacks have nothing to do with Cyttorak. They are able to affect Cain, because he is a human with no mental defenses or training. Give Deadpool the power of the Juggernaut and psychic attacks will fail. The gem grants him physical invulnerability and most if not complete invulnerability against energy attacks and most invulnerability against magic but that flip flops all over the place.

My argument is, WHEN Jugg's helmet is off, Supes can use T-vo to defeat him.

end of discussion

First one was a sonic attack specfically tuned to stop Cains synaptic responses. The 2nd scan was a team effort obviously.

Originally posted by shokosugi
ROFL the scan clearly shows Juggs is vulnerable to telepathic attacks (Prof. X scan) with his Helmet off theres nothing more to discuss. )

Yeah a non CIS Cain could easily counter telepathic assaults by summoning his forcefield.

Originally posted by shokosugi
My argument is, WHEN Jugg's helmet is off, Supes can use T-vo to defeat him.

end of discussion

Helmet won't come off due to Forcefield.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Well it protects him from things Cyttorak level and below. Eternity and Oblivion are obviously above him. Clark's strength and abilities are not imo. If you want to be technical about the sonic Nimrod scan, then you can see he waited until he removed the helmet and exposed his ears.



i agree.





And that's why Superman win's via T-Vo.

T-Vo is a plot power that Superman has used that one time as far as I recall. It seems unlikely he'll whip it out here.

his helmet has been removed even with his FF up just by brute force.

http://geocities.com/Area51/Neptune/7060/vs_Hulk3.jpg

Originally posted by shokosugi
his helmet has been removed even with his FF up just by brute force.

http://geocities.com/Area51/Neptune/7060/vs_Hulk3.jpg

Cain has never used his FF in a fight with Hulk. How does that even prove that he had it on?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
T-Vo is a plot power that Superman has used that one time as far as I recall. It seems unlikely he'll whip it out here.


Superman is allowed to use whatever power he has/had so why would he not use it?

Because he's been around since the 1930's and he's used it 1 time.

Originally posted by shokosugi
Superman is allowed to use whatever power he has/had so why would he not use it?

No he's not he's in DOS mode which was one of his worst modes from what I hear he fought like a straight up brick without using his powers. If they are both able to use every last one of their powers then he still isn't bypassing the FF.

He used his eye beamz, but that's about it.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Because he's been around since the 1930's and he's used it 1 time.

Actually Superman had telekenesis/telephatic abilities in the 1930s and 40s. (not T-vo but..)


And Superman used T-Vo atleast a few times. Against Kem-El and Against Dominus. He also used T-vo with Eradicator iirc.

anyway goodnight

Originally posted by shokosugi
And Superman used T-Vo atleast a few times. Against Kem-El and Against Dominus. He also used T-vo with Eradicator iirc.

Scans?

Juggernaut should probably win, I think. I mean, if BFR is out of the question. His durability is above Superman's, he can't be physically stopped, and he is probably in Superman's league in strength.

Although, to bring up an old point; Juggernaut is probably not as strong as WWHulk. Considering all the physics involved, and Juggernaut's power...

Well, Juggernaut has had to match regular Savage Hulk in strength before, but has never "dominated" him in strength, which I think he should have if he were as least equal to a Hulk that's way more powerful than standard Hulk. Not to mention WWHulk has all the same powers as Savage Hulk, just amplified, and that's including his strength increasing from anger. So that's one thing to note.

Second; A test of strength is not just arm power, it'd have to include everything, straight down to his toes, and would require forward momentum in at least some small measure.

And my final point.

Juggernaut weighs more than Hulk. Juggernaut weighs 1,900 lbs according to official bio. And Hulk only weighs 1,150 lbs. according to official bio.

Since both characters can easily lift insanely more than that, the test of strength would solely rely on ground traction and body weight... Just thought I'd point that out.

Juggs is strong. Remember he knocked over one of the Trade Towers just by hitting it with his shoulder.

Originally posted by shokosugi
My argument is, WHEN Jugg's helmet is off, Supes can use T-vo to defeat him.

end of discussion

Yes because thats what he tried to do against DD in DOS....

Frankly T-Vo is utter PIS bullcrap...

You all must have forgotten the pretty obvious fact that Superman didn't even know about T-vo during or before the Death of Superman arc. It's a mental martial art that Supes was trained in later.

And Shokosugi cited Dominus as an obvious example...Supes' first encounter with Dominus took place in '98 (I think), when he was whipping Kismet's ass. Obviously, DOS took place in '93. And he doesn't use T-vo on Dominus until...'01, I think? (AOS?) First person he used it on was Kem, I thought.

*shrug*

Originally posted by shokosugi
ROFL the scan clearly shows Juggs is vulnerable to telepathic attacks (Prof. X scan) with his Helmet off theres nothing more to discuss. )

and supes TP ability is like professor X's ?

the thread Opener said: DOS like eviroment, so CIS is allowed, in this case supes will fight him just like he did DD and for that he will have his head twisted backwards once juggs gets a hold of him....

Originally posted by Master Court
Juggernaut weighs more than Hulk. Juggernaut weighs 1,900 lbs according to official bio. And Hulk only weighs 1,150 lbs. according to official bio.

Juggernaut weighs 900 lbs. Hulk weighs more than Juggernaut.

Originally posted by Enyalus
You all must have forgotten the pretty obvious fact that Superman didn't even know about T-vo during or before the Death of Superman arc.

Originally posted by shokosugi
Actually Superman had telekenesis/telephatic abilities in the 1930s and 40s. (not T-vo but..)


And Superman used T-Vo atleast a few times. Against Kem-El and Against Dominus. He also used T-vo with Eradicator iirc.

dustywanky

Originally posted by Enyalus
You all must have forgotten the pretty obvious fact that Superman didn't even know about T-vo during or before the Death of Superman arc. It's a mental martial art that Supes was trained in later.

And Shokosugi cited Dominus as an obvious example...Supes' first encounter with Dominus took place in '98 (I think), when he was whipping Kismet's ass. Obviously, DOS took place in '93. And he doesn't use T-vo on Dominus until...'01, I think? (AOS?) First person he used it on was Kem, I thought.

*shrug*

I kinda went there. I said that in all the years Superman has been around he used T-Vo once as far as I can remember.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Juggernaut weighs 900 lbs. Hulk weighs more than Juggernaut.


http://marvel.com/universe/Juggernaut

Scroll down to "weight".

That bio is incorrect. Juggernaut weighs in at 900lbs.

Savage Hulk weighs 1400 lbs

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
That bio is incorrect. Juggernaut weighs in at 900lbs.

Well Juggs may have used to weigh 900 pounds, but since the mid 90s I would say 1900 pounds is more like it. Dude is huge.

He is often drawn to look larger than 6'10 900lbs, no doubt. But his '09 handbook bio still has him listed as 6'10 900lbs.

Originally posted by Master Court
http://marvel.com/universe/Juggernaut

Scroll down to "weight".

That is like a wiki page. Certain members can edit it. Cain has been listed as being 6'10" 900 lbs.

There are also complaints of other bios being wrong. Wolverine and Iceman are listed as being as smart as Reed Richards.

Originally posted by Master Court
http://marvel.com/universe/Juggernaut

Scroll down to "weight". Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
That is like a wiki page. Certain members can edit it. Cain has been listed as being 6'10" 900 lbs.

There are also complaints of other bios being wrong. Wolverine and Iceman are listed as being as smart as Reed Richards.

Morg's official stats are in blue.

http://marvel.com/universe/Morg

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Morg's official stats are in blue.

http://marvel.com/universe/Morg
Who follows that crap. It all mixed up

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Who follows that crap. It all mixed up

Exactly. I remember a time when Scarlet Spider's stats were all maxed, including durability, speed and energy projection.

juggernaut ftw cause he's the juggernaut *****

Ok. Granted about the bio f' up.

But it doesn't matter, I guess. We can easily compare their sizes on-panel. Juggernaut was even bigger than WWHulk, in general size and muscle mass. So in that showing, he most definitely weighed more than Hulk. So even if they were both only two feet tall, the physics remain the same.

Originally posted by Master Court
Ok. Granted about the bio f' up.

But it doesn't matter, I guess. We can easily compare their sizes on-panel. Juggernaut was even bigger than WWHulk, in general size and muscle mass. So in that showing, he most definitely weighed more than Hulk. So even if they were both only two feet tall, the physics remain the same.

That's what I am saying. I mean we don't go by handbooks...so why use them for weight and height. Juggernaut has not been 900 pounds since the 80s

Originally posted by Master Court
Ok. Granted about the bio f' up.

But it doesn't matter, I guess. We can easily compare their sizes on-panel. Juggernaut was even bigger than WWHulk, in general size and muscle mass. So in that showing, he most definitely weighed more than Hulk. So even if they were both only two feet tall, the physics remain the same.

If you want to count the WWH appearance then Hulk would weigh a lot more than Cain. That was normal everyday Cain he fought, but Hulk was at a higher base strength which means he had more muscle mass. Cain has never gained weight. He's still 900.

Juggy wins this and no Superman will not be able to stop him. Superman is stronger, but Juggy is a magical entity. Just like brushing up against Minerva's sword in Kingdom Come, Supes gets hurt with every puch. This would cause Supes healing factor to work overtime, which would use up his solar energy. Yes people Superman is just a solar battery. After a long drawn out fight Superman collapses, and Juggy throws him into outer space. How's that?

Originally posted by SIAFON
Juggy wins this and no Superman will not be able to stop him. Superman is stronger, but Juggy is a magical entity. Just like brushing up against Minerva's sword in Kingdom Come, Supes gets hurt with every puch. This would cause Supes healing factor to work overtime, which would use up his solar energy. Yes people Superman is just a solar battery. After a long drawn out fight Superman collapses, and Juggy throws him into outer space. How's that?
That's not how it works. Juggernaut is powered magically, but it doesn't mean his power are magic based. His powers are just like Superman's except on different level.

you dumb tool...

Originally posted by nicamarvin
you dumb tool...

there's no need for that.

lets keep it civil people.

OP said Supes couldn't BFR Juggs...well, what if Flash used IMP's...or a GL just used his ring to toss him into space...it would stop the Juggernaut's advance on Metropolis. Superman isn't the only one that can BFR.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
OP said Supes couldn't BFR Juggs...well, what if Flash used IMP's...or a GL just used his ring to toss him into space...it would stop the Juggernaut's advance on Metropolis. Superman isn't the only one that can BFR.

Flash and Green lantern wernt in Death of Superman though.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Flash and Green lantern wernt in Death of Superman though.

If I remeber right there was a lantrn who was totally waering out his ring on DD (along with other heros), I could be wrong thogh

Originally posted by Parmaniac
If I remeber right there was a lantrn who was totally waering out his ring on DD (along with other heros), I could be wrong thogh

That was guy gardner and his bootleg ring

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
That was guy gardner and his bootleg ring

but Guy Gardner is a Lantern... and what do you mean be "bootleg ring"?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
but Guy Gardner is a Lantern... and what do you mean be "bootleg ring"?

I beleive he had a yellow ring. I think OA took his green ring from him. I don't beleive this ring was the same as the current Qward yellow ring. Not sure though.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
I beleive he had a yellow ring. I think OA took his green ring from him. I don't beleive this ring was the same as the current Qward yellow ring. Not sure though.

i have dos infront of me, and yeh he had some whackass yellow ring. not the current one. if he had the green ring i dont know if dos doomsday would of wrecked him so bad.

anyway i give this to supes because doomsday speed was great. supes event comments he moves so fast. juggs wont hit so fast.

bump

Memories

Superman.

Doomsday > > > > > > Juggernaut.

Superman wins.

edit nvrmnd

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Doomsday > > > > > > Juggernaut.

Superman wins. I just cam back from Banned Memembe's Hell to say....FAIL...


Classic Juggernaut>>>>>>>>DOS Doomsday...

Edit: I am out

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Doomsday > > > > > > Juggernaut.

Superman wins.

How is DOS Doomsday that much greater than
Juggernaut jugdurnaut HP Doomsday isn't that much greater (he is tougher though) but not by much

Juggernaut stomps Superman.