Shuma vs the Growing Gauntlet!

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leonidas
hmm, so the ancient demon is in a neutral dimension but CAN STILL ACCESS HIS FULL POWER AS CAN ALL INVOLVED.

how far does the demon get (remember, each enters as the previous combatant is in trouble . . .)

1. dr ock (RESPECT ASIAN HULK!! big grin )
2. thanos
3. keeper
4. sentinel
5. grandmaster
6. ganthet
7. genis
8. thor
9. mephisto
10. the doctor
11. atum
12. uatu
13. surtur w/twilght
14. KC gog
15. darkseid
16. inbetweener

how many does it take to permanently destroy the demon?

iceman24567
Loses at 1 because

Nihilist
Imo Shuma is hard to gauge, but stops at 9.

SoulDevourer
coud get to 16, then I dunno

Knowsbleed33
Clears it.

nicamarvin
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Clears it. ..... laughing NO DEMON NO GOD NO ELDER GOD, will clear it with ATUM THE GOD EATER in any Gauntlet let alone a growing gauntlet...

iceman24567
Stop the Atum wanking Shuma owns him

nicamarvin
NOPE.......!

iceman24567
Yeah ok whatever that's why he's dead now. Shuma might make it to 16

nicamarvin
He is dead because BAD writers!!! come on he eats Gods and Demons for a living....

iceman24567
He has never eaten somebody of Shumas power. Atum gets vaporized in seconds he doesn't have the power to beat Shuma

leonidas
gotta admit, i was a little curious how people might view atum in this thread . . . . i think he may have been viewed differently before that showing in herc.

iceman24567
Well even before his loss in the God Squad I still didnt see him as a guy powerful
enough to put Shuma down.

shokosugi
might stop at 13

leonidas
Originally posted by iceman24567
Well even before his loss in the God Squad I still didnt see him as a guy powerful
enough to put Shuma down.

you could be right. i think his level was tough to gauge. above elder god is pretty powerful. that puts him quite a bit above skyfather level at least. his showing in herc really did suck. erm

Hyperion Prime
Shuma is a beast. He used to fight Crom the original sky father all the time. I think he can clear it, but Surtur @13 may stop him.

occultdestroyer
Shuma would last up to 13.

Knowsbleed33
Originally posted by nicamarvin
..... laughing NO DEMON NO GOD NO ELDER GOD, will clear it with ATUM THE GOD EATER in any Gauntlet let alone a growing gauntlet...

Shuma Gorath is a Great Old One from the Chthulu mythos. They predate Elder Gods by a significant number.

GamorasBigDaddy
Shit Thanos beats his Ass! Him & Keeper for sure take him...

Shuma is'nt as high as some seem to imply.
GBD

Knowsbleed33
Please stop posting in threads you're not qualified to post in.

GamorasBigDaddy
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Please stop posting in threads you're not qualified to post in.

Shut your dumb mouth already! I don't like debateing with you cause you/I has revealed yourself to be a idiot & almost no clue about things he posts about!

SO stop trolling me & know your mad cause the ownings but get over it cause I'm done with ya clown!

GBD

Knowsbleed33
Awwww someones fweelings got hurt.

Go back to Herochat and ride Quanchi's jock some more.

Ouallada
If he gets past Atum/Demogorge (and I think he probably will), he would probably make it to 16. I don't think he could make it past IB, though.

Shuma is either being very underrated here or certain opponents are being very overrated. Thanos/Keeper would never stop him. Ever. Surtur, a skyfather, doesn't have the juice either even if he teams up with his predecessors. I'm looking at Atum here while discounting the God Squad incident almost entirely, but Shuma is still far beyond any of his opponents. Mephisto? IIRC, one of Shuma's lesser realms was described such that Mephisto or Dormammu would be akin to mice when entering them.

Shuma vs. IB is the clincher here, in my opinion.

GamorasBigDaddy
Originally posted by Ouallada
If he gets past Atum/Demogorge (and I think he probably will), he would probably make it to 16. I don't think he could make it past IB, though.

Shuma is either being very underrated here or certain opponents are being very overrated. Thanos/Keeper would never stop him. Ever. Surtur, a skyfather, doesn't have the juice either even if he teams up with his predecessors. I'm looking at Atum here while discounting the God Squad incident almost entirely, but Shuma is still far beyond any of his opponents. Mephisto? IIRC, one of Shuma's lesser realms was described such that Mephisto or Dormammu would be akin to mice when entering them.

Shuma vs. IB is the clincher here, in my opinion.

Naw Thanos & Keeper together would take him IMO!

Crom has beaten Shuma more then once I beleive. He's a highend skyfather nothing more!

IB would own him hard!

GBD

Ouallada
Shuma Gorath has never been defeated by conventional means, ie a battle. Being banished by magical incantations that aren't available here =/= being defeated in a battle. Neither Crom's books nor Crom's power has ever bound a FP Shuma either, so using them as an example is a tad fallacious.

As for Shuma's level, he is definitely beyond Skyfather. Beyond Elder God too. I would put him slightly below Galactus, which is where IB is also placed. It wouldn't be a washout for the IB, but I believe he would take it.

Thanos and the Keeper? No. Honestly, just no. As in: "No, not going to happen".

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by GamorasBigDaddy
Shit Thanos beats his Ass! Him & Keeper for sure take him...

Shuma is'nt as high as some seem to imply.
GBD

ohnoesplzmariofacepalmuggh

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by Ouallada
Shuma Gorath has never been defeated by conventional means, ie a battle. Being banished by magical incantations that aren't available here =/= being defeated in a battle. Neither Crom's books nor Crom's power has ever bound a FP Shuma either, so using them as an example is a tad fallacious.

As for Shuma's level, he is definitely beyond Skyfather. Beyond Elder God too. I would put him slightly below Galactus, which is where IB is also placed. It wouldn't be a washout for the IB, but I believe he would take it.

Thanos and the Keeper? No. Honestly, just no. As in: "No, not going to happen".

Originally posted by Ouallada
If he gets past Atum/Demogorge (and I think he probably will), he would probably make it to 16. I don't think he could make it past IB, though.

Shuma is either being very underrated here or certain opponents are being very overrated. Thanos/Keeper would never stop him. Ever. Surtur, a skyfather, doesn't have the juice either even if he teams up with his predecessors. I'm looking at Atum here while discounting the God Squad incident almost entirely, but Shuma is still far beyond any of his opponents. Mephisto? IIRC, one of Shuma's lesser realms was described such that Mephisto or Dormammu would be akin to mice when entering them.

Shuma vs. IB is the clincher here, in my opinion.

He knows his shat!! thumb up

iceman24567
Yup I agree IB seems to be is biggest threat. Thanos and the Keeper can't do the job.

leonidas
dormmy's realm is pretty big, i'm a little surprised shuma is considered to be that far above him.

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by leonidas
dormmy's realm is pretty big, i'm a little surprised shuma is considered to be that far above him.

It's true...I remember reading that too. I will have to find it. Shuma is someone who is superior to Dormamu. Shuma is one of the old gods. Older than the Set, CHhton and others.

Shuma Gorath >>>>>Dormamu>>>Mephisto>KMC

Hyperion Prime
Shuma Gorath

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/shumagorath.htm

CROM
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/crom.htm

Dudes site is excellent. Most people already know about it.

GamorasBigDaddy
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Shuma Gorath

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/shumagorath.htm

CROM
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/crom.htm

Dudes site is excellent. Most people already know about it.

Yea Shuma is so impressive. Crom was able to inprison him & banish him two times! He could'nt even stop Conan from delivering the books to Crom!

Strange as beaten him what? 3 damn times!

Yea definately overrated!

GBD

iceman24567
Strange never beat him under his own power so nice failing.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by GamorasBigDaddy
Yea Shuma is so impressive. Crom was able to inprison him & banish him two times! He could'nt even stop Conan from delivering the books to Crom!

Strange as beaten him what? 3 damn times!

Yea definately overrated!

GBD

So can Thanos replicate the ways he was beaten?

GamorasBigDaddy
Originally posted by iceman24567
Strange never beat him under his own power so nice failing.


Yes he has, check again...

GBD

iceman24567
No he hasn't

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by GamorasBigDaddy
Yea Shuma is so impressive. Crom was able to inprison him & banish him two times! He could'nt even stop Conan from delivering the books to Crom!

Strange as beaten him what? 3 damn times!

Yea definately overrated!

GBD

Point taken you right, but then Thanos is no Crom!!!!!!! Shuma Gorath wrecks Thanos and maker like a 1980 Chevette.

GamorasBigDaddy
Originally posted by iceman24567
No he hasn't

Whoa just look at the link posted & read son!


GBD

GamorasBigDaddy
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
So can Thanos replicate the ways he was beaten?

Well not exactly since that's usually magic in some way, but I can definately see Thanos giving Shuma a fight for his life w/Keeper by his side Shuma WOULD NOT prevail!

GBD

GamorasBigDaddy
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Point taken you right, but then Thanos is no Crom!!!!!!! Shuma Gorath wrecks Thanos and maker like a 1980 Chevette.

Well we seen Thanos be able to take Odin's shots & odin is usally regarded as the TOP skyfather which would be above Crom!

Anyone who does'nt think Thanos could give Shuma a decent fight at very least really does'nt know what there talking about...

GBD

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by GamorasBigDaddy
Well we seen Thanos be able to take Odin's shots & odin is usally regarded as the TOP skyfather which would be above Crom!

Anyone who does'nt think Thanos could give Shuma a decent fight at very least really does'nt know what there talking about...

GBD

Shuma is above Odin.

iceman24567
Originally posted by GamorasBigDaddy
Whoa just look at the link posted & read son!


GBD I dont need to read links like you all times Strange has beaten Shuma it wasnt with his own power plot devices beat Shuma "son" but I guess since you lack the knowledge you wouldn't know that try debating with people that dont read comics maybe then you would get somewhere no expression

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by GamorasBigDaddy
Well we seen Thanos be able to take Odin's shots & odin is usally regarded as the TOP skyfather which would be above Crom!

Anyone who does'nt think Thanos could give Shuma a decent fight at very least really does'nt know what there talking about...

GBD

I am not going to bash you, because I see were you are coming from, but Thanos didnt beat Odin and Odin is less than Crom. Shuma is on another level and can be beaten by Crom, but not Odin and Thanos.

iceman24567
Thanos would get mopped by Shuma he doesn't have the magical knowledge to compete. Strange beats Shuma because its his job to battle powerful demons way above him Thanos isn't so lucky why am I explaining basic Dr. Strange shit to this nut?

Knowsbleed33
Originally posted by GamorasBigDaddy
Yea Shuma is so impressive. Crom was able to inprison him & banish him two times! He could'nt even stop Conan from delivering the books to Crom!

Strange as beaten him what? 3 damn times!

Yea definately overrated!

GBD

I knew it. You go by bios. You think you can sum an entire character up by his bio.

Also, what did I say about not posting in threads you're not qualified to post in. I'm losing my patience.

Knowsbleed33
Edit

GamorasBigDaddy
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
I am not going to bash you, because I see were you are coming from, but Thanos didnt beat Odin and Odin is less than Crom. Shuma is on another level and can be beaten by Crom, but not Odin and Thanos.

He did'nt beat him but showed he can handle that type of power without being put down.

Why is Crom above Odin now???

GBD

iceman24567
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
I knew it. You go by bios. You think you can sum an entire character up by his bio.

Also, what did I say about not posting in threads you're not qualified to post in. I'm losing my patience. Yeah figures. I am also losing my patience.

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by GamorasBigDaddy
He did'nt beat him but showed he can handle that type of power without being put down.

Why is Crom above Odin now???

GBD

Shuma is not a fighter.....He is a magical reality warper on a magnificent scale. He generates his own power and can steal the power of others.

Crom was a skyfather when there was no such thing . He would own Odin. Supposedly Crom was only beaten by the original Greek titans.....ALL of Them. Crom is what other Sky fathers worship.

Thanos is never beating these guys....he dosent have the skill or knowlegde.

GamorasBigDaddy
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
I knew it. You go by bios. You think you can sum an entire character up by his bio.



huh? Actually No not at all!

Your obsession with me is getting pathetic...

GBD

SoulDevourer
even doc Strange dint realy defeat Shuma (he got sort of possessed by Shuma or somethin...unless im mixin up with another ep huh )

Knowsbleed33
Originally posted by GamorasBigDaddy
huh? Actually No not at all!

Your obsession with me is getting pathetic...

GBD

You wish I were obsessed with you the way you're obsessed with Quanchi.

Shuma most likely clears this. IB is the only true threat.

GamorasBigDaddy
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Shuma is not a fighter.....He is a magical reality warper on a magnificent scale. He generates his own power and can steal the power of others.

Crom was a skyfather when there was no such thing . He would own Odin. Supposedly Crom was only beaten by the original Greek titans.....ALL of Them. Crom is what other Sky fathers worship.

Just becuase he was the first SF does'nt mean he can't be equalled or surpassed by SF's after him!

Now guess who has beaten the Titans? Oh the Olympians!

Now the Olympians ALL of Them where below Desak!
Then Desak got even more powerful w/Destroyer Armour & who beats him? Odin's Son as King which is below Odin himself! wink

There's really nothing AT ALL to suggest Crom would be above Odin let alone owning him...

& also no other skyfather do not worship Crom!


GBD

Hyperion Prime
Originally posted by GamorasBigDaddy
Just becuase he was the first SF does'nt mean he can't be equalled or surpassed by SF's after him!

Now guess who has beaten the Titans? Oh the Olympians!

Now the Olympians ALL of Them where below Desak!
Then Desak got even more powerful w/Destroyer Armour & who beats him? Odin's Son as King which is below Odin himself! wink

There's really nothing AT ALL to suggest Crom would be above Odin let alone owning him...

& also no other skyfather do not worship Crom!


GBD


I am pretty sure that Crom is one of the GOD WHO SIT ABOVE IN SHADOW....so yes they do worship him.

GamorasBigDaddy
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
I am pretty sure that Crom is one of the GOD WHO SIT ABOVE IN SHADOW....so yes they do worship him.

Huh where you get this from???

GBD

Knowsbleed33
God you're such a troll.

iceman24567
Yup I'm tempted to report this cat

Knowsbleed33
Give him a little bit. There might be hope.

WhiteWitchKing
I think he might just clear it. SG is pretty pretty powerful, enough so that even Nightmare became an unwilling pawn. The fear lord was shitting in his spandex when talking about SG.

leonidas
i'm not sure what to think tbh. i don't think there is any way to directly compare odin and crom to get a gauge on power. i think there was a what if where crom stripped mjolnir of power. that would certainly be an indication that the writer of that book likely believed crom>odin, but that's just a what if. erm

there's been a pretty large disparity of thoughts in this thread.

would most agree that crom is ROUGHLY equal to shuma? or is shuma definitely greater than crom? of vice versa? anyone have scans as proof or is anyone out there (a conan fan would be GREAT!) certain about any of these?? confused

GamorasBigDaddy
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not sure what to think tbh. i don't think there is any way to directly compare odin and crom to get a gauge on power. i think there was a what if where crom stripped mjolnir of power. that would certainly be an indication that the writer of that book likely believed crom>odin, but that's just a what if. erm



No he did'nt strip Mjolnir of his powers! He simple was able to overcome the Encantment to carry to hammer & such! He then buried it in the earth & was later retrived...

Crom & Odin shhould be roughly equal, that shows that Shuma is also on highend skyfather level also...

GBD

iceman24567
He asked for proof without it your just speculating to support your own opionion.

Hyperion Prime
Shuma and Crom are greater than Odin. Shuma ruled the Earth. WHat other Skyfather ever did that.

leonidas
i'm not saying you're wrong, i'm just looking for proof because it sounds like crom and shuma are somewhere around the same level. maybe? if that IS true, then gauging crom's power would be very helpful to finaly pinning down shuma's level.

Knowsbleed33
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not sure what to think tbh. i don't think there is any way to directly compare odin and crom to get a gauge on power. i think there was a what if where crom stripped mjolnir of power. that would certainly be an indication that the writer of that book likely believed crom>odin, but that's just a what if. erm

there's been a pretty large disparity of thoughts in this thread.

would most agree that crom is ROUGHLY equal to shuma? or is shuma definitely greater than crom? of vice versa? anyone have scans as proof or is anyone out there (a conan fan would be GREAT!) certain about any of these?? confused

In his prime I'd say Crom>Odin. Unlike Odin, Crom was empowered by belief in him. He was mighty above all others in his pantheon at one point so he had legions upon legions of followers.

Is Crom more powerful than Shuma? At the level I mentioned above I would say he was. He was able to defeat Shuma and stuff him under a mountain for a long, long time.

Ouallada
Well, Crom is by definition a skyfather, but he lacks feats to be placed above Odin. As for him being able to trap Shuma, there are a couple of caveats. The first is that trapping Shuma isn't necessarily evidence that Crom is above Shuma, just that Crom had the right type of knowledge -- when Karnak beat Ultron, it certainly wasn't because Karnak > Ultron, but because of Karnak's own unique powerset and knowledge. It is even debateable if banishment should even work here.

The second caveat is that Shuma is at full power here, and the only time he's been seen at FP it took a fully-prepped Strange's sacrifice (becoming Shuma) to stop him, and that is only after Strange absorbed certain forms of dark magic that allowed him to challenge Shuma.

Using Dormammu as a parallel, Dormammu hasn't been beaten by Strange outside of banishment/trickery either. In a battle between Odin and Dormammu (order vs. chaos), Odin flat-out stated he could not beat Dormammu, and Thor/Sif had to go to the dark dimension to give Odin a better chance of stalemating the battle. That was Dormammu when weakened outside the Dark Dimension, too.

Endless Mike
Makes it to 10, IMO (and I have read all of Shuma's appearances save 1)

XanatosForever
I don't know, Mike. Shuma doesn't strike me as the type to fall for the same trick twice, and I don't think FP Doc = FP Shuma. He'd probably finish him off fast so as not to suffer a similar defeat. My opinion, anyway.

laughing I always knew there was a reason I liked Shuma in Marvel fighting games. Lovecraft for the win.

Hyperion Prime
The Doctor???? You are talking about Dr. Who at #10? You know the DR. is a bad MF...I didnt even see him on the list before.

leonidas
bum






































p

ermm

celestialdemon
In a growing gauntlet, I don't see him making it past 13.

Enyalus
I'm thinking about #13, as well.

K Von Doom
Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Shuma and Crom are greater than Odin. Shuma ruled the Earth. WHat other Skyfather ever did that.

I can name Doom but he's no skyfather. How impressive is it really when you're the only big fish in the pond? With the assortment of high end gods, cosmic beings, magic users, reality warpers, superpowered mutants and such running around now, it would be a more impressive feat if Shuma did that today.

If we're talking billions of years ago, I'm guessing even someone like a Green Lantern could accomplish such a feat.

leonidas
Originally posted by K Von Doom
I can name Doom but he's no skyfather. How impressive is it really when you're the only big fish in the pond? With the assortment of high end gods, cosmic beings, magic users, reality warpers, superpowered mutants and such running around now, it would be a more impressive feat if Shuma did that today.

If we're talking billions of years ago, I'm guessing even someone like a Green Lantern could accomplish such a feat.

oooooo . . . kvd laying down the smack. nice. smile

KillAll
i think thanos has the resources to do it if he uses the universe and all its inanimate objects to his advantage. he is MORE Than knowledgeable and resourceful to do this on his own given TIME.

he has become more than the gauntlet and shuma together could defeat. ie, cosmic cube, infinity guantlet, Heart of the infinte/universe...


i'm sure he could come up with something, unless it was a spontaneous unplanned battle where he couldnt use anything but his own power. if that is the case i still dont think we can say that shuma could take odin, or surtur with the twilight sword. he hasnt shown that kind of power in his appearances to say he can flat out do it...

leonidas
Originally posted by KillAll
i'm sure he could come up with something, unless it was a spontaneous unplanned battle where he couldnt use anything but his own power.

that is exactly the case.



most seem to think shuma is quite a bit above the simple skyfather level of odin or surtur, though very little proof has been brought to bear. come to think of it, i don't think i've seen a single scan of shuma doing . . . anything. erm

kgkg
9

XanatosForever
Originally posted by leonidas
come to think of it, i don't think i've seen a single scan of shuma doing . . . anything. erm

He's not unlike Manhattan in that regard, though I do recall him being able to make a "voodoo doll" of the earth and could manipulate the actual planet through it. Not sure how much that counts for, though. confused

King Kandy
He gets to IB and then stops. I'm certain of this.

Priest
9.

KuRuPT Thanosi
People saying Crom>Odin are basing this off of what? Beating Shuma, who like him, was a big fish in a small pond. When Crom ruled the earth millions of years ago there were the heavy hitters there are now. Context people, context.

leonidas
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
People saying Crom>Odin are basing this off of what?

that's kinda the question i was asking . . . erm

CortSether
Okay, in viewing this thread it is clear that many of you have no idea about Shuma-Gorath. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Shuma clears the gauntlet, In-Betweener does not have the power to overcome him.

Here's a respect thread of his to look at just how powerful he is.

killermovies.com/forums/f98/t477775.htm


Sise-Neg, 31st century sorcerer who merged with the entire universe, destroyed it, and then recreated it into the 616 reality stated that he could not destroy Shuma-Gorath, and Sise-Neg in terms of power is greater than Eternity, Infinity, Death, and Oblivion. If he cannot destroy Shuma, no well in hell is anyone in the gauntlet defeating Shuma-Gorath.

Servants of Shuma-Gorath include The Living Buddha, the demon Sligguth and his priestess Ebora, N'gabthoth (a powerful demon), Dagoth (a sea demon), and Kathulos (a living planet). The Vishanti would not even tangle with Shuma-Gorath.

Secondly, those saying Crom>>> Shuma-Gorath are false as well. Crom imprisoned Shuma, he did not do battle with him. Also, it is known that Shuma-Gorath does not have near his full power at his disposal when he is outside of his home dimension. Crom was able to imprison a Shuma-Gorath that was only able to utilize a fraction of his power. (also the canonicity of the events in Conan are questionable because Marvel owns S-G and conan isn't marvel publishing)

Shuma-Gorath is greater than beings like Dormammu, Mephisto, Sataanish, and all the sky-father level beings. It's not even a contest. Scans prove this. Shuma's knowledge approaches omniscience, there are possibly none that are its intellectual equal.

In order for Classic Dr. Strange to have a fighting chance against Shuma-Gorath, he had to absorb Arioch and get all of his power. Arioch is a Chaos Lord who can make himself as powerful as he wishes to be. Also, when Shuma was defeated by plot-device, it was only temporary as he is summoned to Earth later, meaning Shuma-Gorath's energy was reassembled in the Chaos Dimension right after his battle with Strange.

Shuma is the Cthulhu of Marvel. It would be better for those who have no knowledge of the character to not post in a topic about them.

There is a strong supporting from many people (look on comicvine) that Shuma-Gorath with access to his full power is enough to beat a full fed Galactus.

Shuma-Gorath clears the gauntlet easy.

/Thread

cool

King Kandy
Originally posted by CortSether
Sise-Neg, 31st century sorcerer who merged with the entire universe, destroyed it, and then recreated it into the 616 reality stated that he could not destroy Shuma-Gorath, and Sise-Neg in terms of power is greater than Eternity, Infinity, Death, and Oblivion. If he cannot destroy Shuma, no well in hell is anyone in the gauntlet defeating Shuma-Gorath.
That is not what Sise-Neg said. What he said was that if he destroyed Shuma, some of his powers would be stolen in the process. He could do it, but was unwilling to.

"I cannot attempt to destroy it, since that would take time-- and in that time, it would leach some of my carefully accumulated energy from me."

Originally posted by CortSether
Servants of Shuma-Gorath include The Living Buddha, the demon Sligguth and his priestess Ebora, N'gabthoth (a powerful demon), Dagoth (a sea demon), and Kathulos (a living planet). The Vishanti would not even tangle with Shuma-Gorath.
What do you mean they wouldn't tangle with him, when long ago they fought him head on?

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Shuma-Gorath/shumagorathvishanti1.jpg

CortSether
It is unknown whether Sise-Neg could have even destroyed Shuma Gorath permanently. Sise-Neg stated that if he "attempted" to destroy it, it would leech out his energy and take a lot of time. Sise-Neg did not know for a fact if he could destroy the monster.

Dr. Strange merged with Arioch couldn't permanently destroy Shuma-Gorath as it was called upon later, hinting that S-G's energy just re-manifested itself in its home dimension.My bet it that Shuma-Gorath cannot be permanently destroyed.

Regarding the Vishanti, they had fought him before yes, but the Vishanti had never been capable of defeating Shuma-Gorath. Before Sise-Neg put Shuma in a deep slumber and sent him to another dimension Shuma-Gorath had ruled for eons. Besides Sise-Neg, Dr. Strange is the only one who was able to banish Shuma-Gorath through magic (yet it still didn't physically harm it).

The Vishanti saying they fought the evil of Shuma-Gorath once means that they fought him. But in the fact that Shuma-Gorath was ruling before Sise-Neg banished him, it means they were unsuccessful in trying to defeat it.They would not help Dr. Strange fight Shuma-Gorath because they weren't able to do anything before, and there is no indication that they would be able to harm Shuma-Gorath. Just by feats and on-panel descriptions of Shuma-Gorath, it is much more powerful than the Vishanti.

leonidas
seemed in that scan the vishanti refused to save the earth sphere. that would imply they COULD have, had they chosen to do so.

CortSether
Originally posted by leonidas
seemed in that scan the vishanti refused to save the earth sphere. that would imply they COULD have, had they chosen to do so.

They COULD have helped against Shuma-Gorath - that doesn't mean they would have overcome him. Based on all the info and history of Shuma-Gorath it has never said in any of the comics that he was driven away by the Vishanti, yet the Vishanti say they combated him before. This would mean they were unsuccessful, as Shuma was ruling earth until Sise-Neg banished him.

King Kandy
Originally posted by CortSether
It is unknown whether Sise-Neg could have even destroyed Shuma Gorath permanently. Sise-Neg stated that if he "attempted" to destroy it, it would leech out his energy and take a lot of time. Sise-Neg did not know for a fact if he could destroy the monster.
Cool, but you understand that that is much, much different from your original point that Sise-Neg could not destroy him. Sise-Neg said he could destroy him if he spent enough time on it. Whether you buy that or not is your choice, but in absolutely no way does it support your initial idea.

Originally posted by CortSether
Dr. Strange merged with Arioch couldn't permanently destroy Shuma-Gorath as it was called upon later, hinting that S-G's energy just re-manifested itself in its home dimension.My bet it that Shuma-Gorath cannot be permanently destroyed.
Possibly. Fortunately anything like what Strange did would count as a win as far as this thread goes.

Originally posted by CortSether
Regarding the Vishanti, they had fought him before yes, but the Vishanti had never been capable of defeating Shuma-Gorath. Before Sise-Neg put Shuma in a deep slumber and sent him to another dimension Shuma-Gorath had ruled for eons. Besides Sise-Neg, Dr. Strange is the only one who was able to banish Shuma-Gorath through magic (yet it still didn't physically harm it).
I never said they defeated Shuma-Gorath. You said they were afraid to take him on and I proved that was simply not so.

Originally posted by CortSether
The Vishanti saying they fought the evil of Shuma-Gorath once means that they fought him. But in the fact that Shuma-Gorath was ruling before Sise-Neg banished him, it means they were unsuccessful in trying to defeat it.
Likewise, the fact that the Vishanti are still around proves the battle didn't exactly finish them off either. It is unknown who first attacked who, but it ended up not hurting either party. Sounds to me like more of a stalemate.

Originally posted by CortSether
They would not help Dr. Strange fight Shuma-Gorath because they weren't able to do anything before, and there is no indication that they would be able to harm Shuma-Gorath.
This is complete speculation. On-Panel, they say the reason they won't fight Shuma is because they don't care about the Earth, and I see no reason to try and speculate that that was a lie.

Originally posted by CortSether
Just by feats and on-panel descriptions of Shuma-Gorath, it is much more powerful than the Vishanti.
This is nonsense. The fight had no conclusive results. If either was much stronger than the other, one of them would be gone now.

King Kandy
Originally posted by CortSether
They COULD have helped against Shuma-Gorath - that doesn't mean they would have overcome him. Based on all the info and history of Shuma-Gorath it has never said in any of the comics that he was driven away by the Vishanti, yet the Vishanti say they combated him before. This would mean they were unsuccessful, as Shuma was ruling earth until Sise-Neg banished him.
For all we know, Shuma could have been the one who attacked THEM and was unsuccessful. You are trying to turn an inconclusive statement into a loss for the Vishanti after your initial point of them being scared to fight him was proven false.

CortSether
Originally posted by King Kandy
For all we know, Shuma could have been the one who attacked THEM and was unsuccessful. You are trying to turn an inconclusive statement into a loss for the Vishanti after your initial point of them being scared to fight him was proven false.

If the Vishanti combated Shuma-Gorath to try and get rid of him and he is still around, it is a loss for them. Shuma-Gorath was doing his thing devouring the humans so it is highly unlikely that it was worried about the Vishanti in the least. I don't see how my point of the vishanti not wanting to fight S-G was proven false when they told Strange that they would not help him. Whether they were "scared" or not doesn't mean anything because they still wouldn't tangle with S-G all the same.

CortSether
Originally posted by King Kandy



My initial idea was that Sise-Neg could not destroy Shuma-Gorath permanently. Even through Strange defeated Shuma, it simply re-manifested itself in its home dimension. The same would most likely happen if Sise-Neg had spent a lot of his energy trying to kill it.



I'm not disputing that. Dr.Strange/Arioch obviously succeeded in his mission of stopping Shuma-Gorath.What I am saying is that it did not succeed in actually killing Shuma-Gorath like he thought.




Most likely it was the Vishanti who attacked Shuma at first, of course it is speculation, but if the Shuma was interested in ruling the Earth, why would it go out of its way to attack the Vishanti? The more likely thing is that the Vishanti tried to get rid of Shuma. Either way, I don't think it's possible for most Gods of their caliber to be completely destroyed in the first place.



Not likely. Shuma-Gorath is at full power in his realm and isn't nearly as strong when he is out of it (though still very powerful), this is known by many. Now while Shuma was out of his realm, the three Vishanti were incapable of getting rid of him - this is when it only has a fraction of its full power. Due to this, and simply based on on-panel discussion and feats, Shuma at full power is more powerful than the Vishanti at his full scale. There are scans where Kaluu even states that Mephisto and Sataanish are like mice in a great temple compared to Shuma's power in one of his lesser realms. Further proof is that after Dr.Strange absorbed the full power of Shuma-Gorath he was unable to go back to Earth without dispersing the power because his mere presence would "destroy galaxies", stated on panel.
It's pretty clear that Shuma-Gorath is greater in power than a great number of cosmic entities, whether you agree with me or not.

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