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Two years after its announcement effectively ended further development on Guild Wars 1- a game that was meant to keep evolving- Arenanet have finally gone public with actual details on the game.

Being the sequel to a game in the top 10 of most popular PC games of all time, with apparently over a billion hours of it played, this is quite a biggie and Arenanet's total silence on the game for so long had some wondering if it was even still going to happen.

Guild Wars 2 will continue to have no monthly fees, but in a drastic change to its predecessor it will be a persistent game world, instead iof everywhere outside ot outposts and towns being instanced. How they are pulling this off without monthly fees is not year clear, as instancig is what kept costs down on the original.

The game also has multiple races and, although the details of this are not clear, will apparently have a far more active approach to character control, inlcluding running, jumping, sliding, possibly climbing and definitely swimming, with 3d movement including underwater areas. It will NOT be a 'click here to move here' game, it seems.

As with its predecessors it will be a plot-heavy game with an anti-grind philosophy, though again details on the level structure are not yet clear. It will also have the same dedication as the first game to PvP combat, with one form designed for those who just want to jump in and play against others, and other related to your role-playing character.

Anyway- here is the official site with the trailer front page. Watch the trailer! Impressive stuff.


http://www.guildwars2.com/en/



And here is coverage from two sites thus far.

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/101/1015971p1.html

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/guild-wars-2-preview_4?page=1


I cannot remember the last time I was surprised by how much I liked a game when I played Guild Wars, so this is definitely one I am looking out for.

I know I have some misgivings on the changes they're making for GW2, but...I love GW, if no one's managed to notice yet. I really did not expect to get into it as much as I did. And that trailer is freaking awesome.

So. Yes. Want want want want want.

Right now I am very much wanting to hear about professions and how they will work and stuff. As I definitely see at least one character that looks like a Dervish in that video Very curious as to what will be available, if any of the races will have any advantages, and so on.

Also, the Sylvari look awesome and I am going to definitely play one. Hee.

Oh good. I remember reading an article in PC Gamer about this like 2 years ago and then never heard another peep about it. Glad it's back on the radar.

The thing that kept me from really getting into the first game despite me thinking it was a very solid game was that it wasn't a persistent world, if they follow through and make the sequel have a persistent world I will be very pleased.

Was always a fan of GW's graphics and they look splendid in this one as well. The trailer impressed.

Any news of a release date yet? Hopefully it's not too far off.

Also odd that they chose today to try and bring the game back to the spotlight, the very day that they knew Blizzard would be announcing the next WoW expansion. I fear that this won't get the recognition it otherwise would as it seems it's being overshadowed by all the WoW news today.

The stuff was actually announced yesterday. It was at GamesCon in Cologne, I think. I was going to make a thread yesterday about it but it would have been more along the lines of "TRAILER. GO WATCH. AWESOME".

(which is basically what our guild announcement says right now, thanks to me )

No release date yet, of course. Probably late next year or early 2011. I'm hoping sooner, of course, but I'd rather wait and have a well-polished great game. Really, though, no one knows at this point.

Also, the persistent world is one of the changes that's made me slightly iffy. I love instances.

They say they will still make use of instancing so people can still get that personal experience... but I am yet to be convinced in a wider sense that it will work for the game world. For example, in response to the problems of griefing and player conflict, their plan is this:

-

"For example, our event system is designed to give players shared goals, so they should always feel that working together on a problem is the best option available to them. "

-

Yeah... IF everyone is acting sensibly and as you want them to in the game world. What about the ones deliberately being assholes? It happens all the time.

This is the risk a fully persistent world brings- people are a problem. I can see the beneits of persistence, of course, but I am cautious about it buggering up my experience. This quote is more comforting:

-

"The story will take place through a combination of instancing and persistent areas. We're really throwing our entire bag of tricks at the storytelling in GW2. I think we're going to be doing some things, especially with narrative, that people haven't seen before in an MMO."

-

That event system, btw, apparently replaces traditional quests- "I think I can safely say that you won't see a single exclamation mark floating above a character's head in Guild Wars 2," claims lead designer Eric Flannum..

Exciting stuff, anyway.

From what I've heard, most of the world will be persistent, but missions and elite areas and that sort of thing will be instanced. Which will be nice. I screw up missions enough on my own, I don't need some random jackass who has nothing better to do mess things up for me. And I especially don't want anyone else messing me up if I decide to venture into the Underworld or any other areas like that they have.

Also, I am hoping with the persistent areas, that it's going to be like how you said a while ago - in that there will be districts, like now in towns and outposts, and if you want a less crowded map, just switch to a different district. It'd make sense, it'd go well with how they do things already, and it'd let people decide just how much privacy they want while playing. Because personally, I'd like to avoid as many other people as possible while playing

I am not 100% sure there are going to be any missions as we recognise the term. And instancing just in mission-like areas is pretty much how WoW does it anyway

Hmm.

Well, you know what I think of missions to begin with, so yeah. But I think they'll at least keep it in some form, since it was a pretty distinct part of GW.

Also, I'm still far too amused that my sister wants to play a Charr. Ever since I showed her that video yesterday she's been asking me when the game is going to come out.

Well, they're giant battlekitties. Some people just can't resist.

Been playing GW since June 05, can honestly say no other computer game has ever engrossed me so much. EVER. 3500+ Hours. Tried WoW. Tried Aion. Tried em'all, nothing has grabbed me like Guild wars did and i'll sure be ordering the Collectors Edition of this sequal. Man ive been waiting for info on this for 2 years, and now we get a 5 min trailer and a couple of interviews with more to come im sure.

Pray to the Gods they keep the limited skill bar, specialization/customization of available skills is what kept me playing guild wars, inventing new builds, group builds, duo builds, solo builds. Some how having every skill you ever bought available at any time seems like a step backwards tactically. The limited skill bar was definetely one of the best and most innovative gameplay features in any online action/semi-mmo/rpg ever made.

All in all 2010 just looked a little bit brighter for gaming.

And boy, they really do have the best creative team/artists in the business over at ArenaNet don't they.

Have you seen the concept arts? Man. ANet's artists are amazing.

And I definitely agree on the limited skill bar. For as much as I ***** about wanting just one more space...it's awesome.

And, yeah, I've kinda logged a ridiculous amount of hours in the less than a year I've been playing...

Word is they are indeed keeping a similar skill system- but they want fewer skills overall. One of their self-criticisms of GW1 is that the nuimber of skills got out of control, which caused detriments of duplication and complication.

It also makes things difficult to balance when you've got a billion skills you're trying to deal with, so yeah. I definitely think it's a good idea that they want to cut down on that.

I think I heard something about how skills might act differently depending on how they're being used, or something? I can't exactly recall what it was but it was something similar to that.

There was talk of loosing some professions aswell, when it was first announced, well not completley loosing them , just merging them with similar attributes from the Core 6 professions, which i hope they still have.

Paragon, Dervish and Ritualist were broken imo (not totally, but enough to warrant their exclusion from future games) But some of the Paragon shouts should have definetley been in the Warrior line, so in that respect i hope they streamline the Proffs, and ditch the exploitable crap ;p

Ritualist is far more viable now, they updated all of the spirits and they're pretty awesome right now. But I play a Dervish the most and Ritualist second-most, so I'm aware that they're not perfect even though I love the professions. I find Dervish to be the most fun of the melee professions, it's the mix between magic and melee that does it for me. And they're definitely powerful when done right.

I really hope they find a way to fix them for GW2 and make them more viable as a whole. I'm not a huge fan of most of the core professions. Elementalist and Mesmer are fun, Ranger can be fun, but I can do without the other three.

There really hasn't been any talk about professions at all, though, beyond that I believe it was said that they don't want to have more than 10 total.

I love Paragons, my main character is a Paragon, and conceptually there is always room for a party buffer, but I actually would agree that they would work better as a Warrior specialisation, which stops Warriors always just being one-dimensional tanks. And spears should be melee weapons.

I very much reckon this game will be looking at the core professions. The only one of the new professions that was directly viable was the assasisn, as there were no other melee types and a rogue-like was not in the original game. Ritualists, Dervishes and Paragons were all variants of things that already existed- Ritualists were super-summoners, Dervishes were Warriors + magic (which kinda messed up the point of taking two classes),and as I say, Paragons were an extension to Warrior Shouts with unlimited throwing spears put in. All the timing involved with Paragon echoes etc. is part of the complication they wish to avoid, I feel.

I will forever grouch that Paragons are mid-liners that support the team and have more armor than Dervishes, who are front-line melee. Grrrrr. However, some of my self-heals outdo Monk heals, so yeah...

And I definitely agree that pretty much all of the added-in professions can be folded into the core professions. Paragon is basically a ranged Warrior. Dervish is a Warrior/Monk/Elementalist. Ritualist is...sort of Necro-like, with some Monk-ish-ness thrown in. Assassins are...well, they're their own thing, more or less. Though I'd say they can be the most broken profession in some ways.

However, I will also state that despite the similarities, I really prefer the styles of the Dervishes and Ritualists over Warriors and Necromancers, a million times over. There's no doubt there. They're so much cooler.

If they could successfully re-tune Paragons into being Bards (as they basically are, without the music) then that would be fine as well. As I say, there IS an archetype for a party buffer. It is always difficult though, as you have the problem that if a party has LOTS of party buffers in it bcomes a nightmare to balance. And Monks did defensive party buffing anyway, so that was half of what Paragons do already done.

(and what is the central skill of the only to-class Paragon build? A Warrior shout...)

This is one of the bgi reasons they wanted to start again from scratch. None of what they did was BAD, and as I say I love my Paragon, but it was just getting out of control and was going to be impossible to balance if they carruied on like it. So simplicity is the key for the re-start and I will be very surprised if thy don't cut out classes that overlap.

And you can't not have Warriors in a fantasy game!

@PEACH Thats where i gotta disagree, Can't have an RPG without the holy trinity (Warrior/Nuke/Monk) ;p. Im a Warrior to the Bone, i hated dervish because they were a hybrid class that negated the whole dual class system. They took Monk-ish skills and Warrior-ish skills and made a clas that could outlast/damage both over a short time. They were impressive to see, but they're not COre like the straite up warrior. I could stand a variation on the Rogue/assassin though, another melee is definetley needed, they just need to make sure it's balanced from the Go.

Talking of Monks- they were always a mistake. One of Guild Wars' innovations was to remove healing potions etc. and give everyone their own healing solution.

But then they made Monks BETTER at healing... which means that, relatively speaking, it was exactly the same as every other fantasy game, that a healer was essential.

Which is exactly how it is- virtually every single party in GW MUST have a Monk in it. And that should never happen.

Yes, definitely agreed on Warriors, though possibly split them up a bit so there are more melee classes... which could possibly bring a Paragon-ttpye back into it. Youn could have a tank wariror, a rogue-warrior and a buffing warrior.

Still, we have no idea how many professions they want, or how your race might effect it. If Asurans are messing around with golems al the time now, it might make standard professions not quite applicable.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Talking of Monks- they were always a mistake. One of Guild War's innovations was to remove healing potions etc. and give everyone their own healing solution.

But then they made Monks BETETR at healing... which means that, reltaively speaking, it was exactly the same as every other fantasy game, that a healer was essential.

Which is exactly how it is- virtually every single party in GW MUST have a Monk in it. And that should never happen.

Nah, the monks are a good touch, the only problem is they allowed skills to become to imbalanced. Like you said with Warriors.

Can't have a solid Fantasy RPG without the Priest! - or in our case, the monk. /healer.

I don't mean dump the Monk- I mean they made a mistake with them. And who takes a Smiting Monk seriously?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
If they could successfully re-tune Paragons into being Bards (as they basically are, without the music) then that would be fine as well. As I say, there IS an archetype for a party buffer. It is always difficult though, as you have the problem that if a party has LOTS of party buffers in it bcomes a nightmare to balance. And Monks did defensive party buffing anyway, so that was half of what Paragons do already done.

(and what is the central skill of the only to-class Paragon build? A Warrior shout...)

This is one of the bgi reasons they wanted to start again from scratch. None of what they did was BAD, and as I say I love my Paragon, but it was just getting out of control and was going to be impossible to balance if they carruied on like it. So simplicity is the key for the re-start and I will be very surprised if thy don't cut out classes that overlap.

And you can't not have Warriors in a fantasy game!

Bah! Warriors are boring. There's a reason mine doesn't get much play. Other than the fact that she's never going to leave Pre-searing, of course.

And I will be sad if they cut out Dervishes. I love my Dervish, damnit. Whiiiich is why I want to know what they're doing, profession-wise. Because there was definitely at least one character in the trailer that resembled a Dervish (I'm not even going to lie here - I love their armor designs...). And I think I read something along the lines of that armor is not going to be quite as profession specific. If I was able to create a Warrior and set up skills similar to how my Dervish works, and get armor that looks similar...I'd be happy with that.

Originally posted by Juk3n
@PEACH Thats where i gotta disagree, Can't have an RPG without the holy trinity (Warrior/Nuke/Monk) ;p. Im a Warrior to the Bone, i hated dervish because they were a hybrid class that negated the whole dual class system. They took Monk-ish skills and Warrior-ish skills and made a clas that could outlast/damage both over a short time. They were impressive to see, but they're not COre like the straite up warrior. I could stand a variation on the Rogue/assassin though, another melee is definetley needed, they just need to make sure it's balanced from the Go.

Warriors bore me, Monks bore me (I freaking hate playing support, I like to be up front causing damage, not standing back and healing/buffing everyone else), and nuking is fun but I find it bores me quickly. Which is why, despite my love of magic and making things go boom, I've never been able to play an Elementalist for very long. Blowing things up via hexes is fun, though, and I definitely hope that the Mesmer concept sticks around, because that's not only very different from the usual archetypes, but also awesome. Tricky, but awesome.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Talking of Monks- they were always a mistake. One of Guild War's innovations was to remove healing potions etc. and give everyone their own healing solution.

But then they made Monks BETETR at healing... which means that, reltaively speaking, it was exactly the same as every other fantasy game, that a healer was essential.

Which is exactly how it is- virtually every single party in GW MUST have a Monk in it. And that should never happen.

Though, to be fair, most of the self-heals the different professions have aren't strong enough to keep them alive on their own for long. I've got one enchantment with my Dervish that can make me able to out-survive a heck of a lot of damage, but it's dependent on me having several other enchants going at once and it's a huge strain on my energy at that point, as well as paying close attention to what I've got up so I can recast things as they run out and bah.

It does get annoying having to make sure I've always got at least one Monk with me while doing things, though.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I don''t mean dump the Monk- I mean they made a mistake with them. And who takes a Smiting Monk seriously?

Smiting Monks are the sole reason I sometimes get bored and make a PvP Mesmer to play with in Jade Quarry. They get so lost if you interrupt them...hehehehe...

Even if you find Warriors boring, there is no way you can defend a psoition of not having them in the game How can you not have a basic melee fighter in a fantasy game?

Warriors are the core of core professions.

-

Meanwhile- the ONLY reason that the self-heals aren't good enough is because the damage is all calibrated for the superior Monk heals, else Monks would be indestructible see? That's the problem. Basic game design issue.

Hey, I never said they shouldn't be there. Just that I don't like them and would rather have other melee options!

And yeah, I know. Personally, I think the self-heals that the different professions have should be stronger/easier to use/whatever so that there's actually reason to bring them along instead of just relying on a Monk.

I mean, with how I've been playing my Dervish lately, I've pretty much dropped my self-heals off my bar entirely because I simply need the space and energy for other things more...

To go back to the persistent world thing from earlier in the thread, I'm sure they'll do something like you mentioned with having districts or what have you. There are many things being done in other presistent world games that are really doing away with the real problem areas of that style of gameplay.

They may implement something like WoW's phasing system, which sort of creates an instance within the game world for you and allows for the world and area to change for you without changing it for others. And while you're in that area, other players can't see you, though it's still a seamless world without load times or anything of the light to distract from the adventuring. I'm sure they have good ideas.

Oh my god, this is just awesome.

All my titles though, I'll have to earn them again.

I was going to comment that I didn't know you played GW, but now that I think about it, I think I vaguely remember you and my brother talking about it in another thread at some point.

I need to actually start caring enough to work on titles. I have...um...one maxed out? If I even get five done, it'll be a damn miracle. That is where the grind comes in, and I don't have the attention span for it Though I should really finish mapping Prophecies, I'm at something like 93% on that...

Also, still very curious what the Hall of Monuments is going to give us in GW2. I want to know if working on titles will even be worth it...

Originally posted by BackFire
To go back to the persistent world thing from earlier in the thread, I'm sure they'll do something like you mentioned with having districts or what have you. There are many things being done in other presistent world games that are really doing away with the real problem areas of that style of gameplay.

They may implement something like WoW's phasing system, which sort of creates an instance within the game world for you and allows for the world and area to change for you without changing it for others. And while you're in that area, other players can't see you, though it's still a seamless world without load times or anything of the light to distract from the adventuring. I'm sure they have good ideas.

Well I am certainly looking forward to seeing what they do with it. But it does seem their big plan- this 'Event' system- is dependent on a standard persistent outside world with lots of people having no choice but to play in the same place as others, and I am not yet convinced it will work as well as they hope it will.

Still, we'll see.

Yeah, I dunno. I do rather like the standard quest system.

Also I get the feel that this 'event' system will suck for people who don't play quite as much. One of the big lures of GW was that it's so easily accessible for casual players, but this strikes me as a move away from that.

So yeah. I'm not sure about that.

I wouldn't be disuaded so easily by the event system, they say "there prolly won't be exclamaitions marks above npc's heads hahaha" but that just means there will be another symbol to reprezent quests that can be activated. Careful wording for sure to make us think they're implementing something really new, but in a quest heavy fantasy world they'll definetley have more than the event system.

Oh, and on the wish list, i hope the character creation takes a page out of Aions book. GW1 was absolutley clone central sometimes. Plus im a real perfectionist and a serious RPG'er, i like to have as much control over every aspect of my character as i can, and looking unique as possible is a must imo. Aion really raised the standard i think you guys should check out the character customization NCSOFT implemented, it's awsome.

Originally posted by Juk3n
I wouldn't be disuaded so easily by the event system, they say "there prolly won't be exclamaitions marks above npc's heads hahaha" but that just means there will be another symbol to reprezent quests that can be activated. Careful wording for sure to make us think they're implementing something really new, but in a quest heavy fantasy world they'll definetley have more than the event system.

That's exceedingly unlikely. They mean what they say about that. Do you honestly think they would be as petty and pedantic as for that to mean "Oh, we are just using a symbol that is not an exclamation mark"? Of course not. Their intent is to not have that kind of quest structure.

I think too much customisation has a possiblity of narrowing your audience. Some people just want to jump in.

I didn't find Aion's customization, while playing the beta, to be anything special anyway. Most of the changes you can make hardly show any differences. Most of the characters I saw still looked nearly-identical.

A bit more customization would be nice, though, I think...but at this point, who can tell how they'll even handle that. I mean, a lot of characters aren't even going to be human in GW2. It should be interesting to see how they do that.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Regina_Buenaobra/Journal#Guild_Wars_2_Teaser_Trailer_-_21_August_2009



Confirmed that guns are in, for Charr at least. Hmmm...

And a hint that the Titans are still relevant!


Looks like PAX will be the next place to look for more info.

Hehe, I saw that a couple of days ago.

I kind of want to explore Orr myself...

Still no news about the pvp though, eh?

Guild Wars PvE had me only for about a year. Then for the next three I was just PvPing, and barely ever coming out to PvE.

The PvE was good during Prophecies and Factions, but when they spread the world out way too thin, the people per area became so low that its actually impossible to find a group. It was sometimes hard enough to find a group with Factions and Prophecies, I recall, but after two more continents were added it's just untolerable. You would have to ask your guildmates to team in or get some of your friends.

I also noticed how in the trailer the graphics don't look amazing or revolutionary. Honestly, they look exactly the same as in Guidl Wars except with new objects, continents. The walking animations on the characters are even the same, or so I noticed during the trailer when a group passed by in the forest/hill area.

Heh, I'm also really surprised that Ushgarak and all of you play Guild Wars. Never knew, we should have a few fun PvP's or Elite Missions one day

PvE is perfectly good single player or with friends, though, that's part of the thing. I mean, sure, PvP seems more your thing, but the amount of PvE material in there is enormous. I've barely tried the PvP, but I've been at the PvE close to constantly for nearly a year, and I've still managed to leave enough undone to keep me going for a while. And ca you really complain that the PvE had you for 'only' a year? That's more than most games, yeah? And no monthly fees involved!

The change with the graphics is mostly SCALE. Did you see the size and detail of those areas? And their fully 3-d nature? And the graphics are a definite upgrade- the issue is, it has to run on moderate computers. It's not an FPS. It's not about psuhing the very limits of the most expensive graphics cards.

Frankly, I think it looks gorgeous. The vision is the thing, and it is top notch.

As for the PvP- I think I mentioned about it being split in two. It's called Structured PvP, which is what you can create a character for and will probably be where the 'professional' competitive side is, and World PvP, which is the casual side that PvE enemies can drop into, and is set in the Mists. World PvP battles are reportedly going to be huge ongoing things with dozens per side (full details are not confirmed).

Lion's Arch is the new home of PvP.

I've been playing the PvE for...a bit less than Ush has. Still nearly a year now, though. And there is tons of stuff I've yet to do. And that's just with my main character. I have 6 fully leveled up characters in varying states of game completion I will be busy with the PvE for a good long while.

The graphics that we saw in the trailer were still amazing. And it's still a ways out from the game's release, too. It will likely look better by the time it comes out, and ArenaNet has always said, as Ush said, that it will be designed to run well on mid-range computers. Frankly, it was beautiful. Though GW1 is still amazingly beautiful, and it's an aging game.

PvP has never really been my thing, though the professions I like the best (Dervish and Ritualist) are really not very good for it. Though I'll always be amused by the time I decided to go into Random Arena with my Dervish, faced off against a group of 4 Dervishes (all using avatars, which is just dumb in PvP), and shredded all of them. Or shadow-stepping in Jade Quarry. Hehehe. That's as much as I do, though.

I agree that the basic focal point is the PvE, but for me interaction with other players is really important. I find it a great experience to play with other people, and I can't bear to play with henchmen and heroes. So I PvE'd until it was bearable enough to get a group, but after Eye of the North it was just impossible.

I can also see how people don't like PvP as much as you actually need all of the expansions in order to be at least a tad bit effective. The money that you would spend in order to buy all of the expansions is pretty intense to say the least. I bought them gradually, so eh.

the thing I loved about guild wars was the clever skill design.. it really felt like they put so much thought and care into each one.. made it a joy to try them all out

skill implementation was awsome, well, through Prophesies & Factions, With the introduction of NF they lost a bit of balance with their Hybrid Professions (loved the campaign - hated the new classes). But for me what made the skill system shine was the limited skill slots. It added a whole new level of tactics to the game.

Add me as 'Lord Spider Vodka'

Nice name

I had an original Lord Spider, but it was a character that I deleted. The next day when I tried to recreate him, the name was gone.

Preordered it today

A summary of stuff discussed at PAX. Seems there are more interviews coming.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/guild-wars-2-pax-2009-t992.html?amp;

Ill be one of those little elf things with technology, they look cool.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
A summary of stuff discussed at PAX. Seems there are mroe interviews coming.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/guild-wars-2-pax-2009-t992.html?amp;

Ooooh. I hadn't seen that thread there yet. I've seen some of the things in there, though, and somewhere (I found it last night) there are scans of that artbook.

Which I really want.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ill be one of those little elf things with technology, they look cool.

Asura? Yeah, they're pretty neat.

This line interests me:

"Game mechanics won't trickle down, but GW2 lore will trickle down to GW"

The idea that material can be inserted into GW that links into GW2 events raises all sorts of possibilities.

That intrigued me as well. Especially combined with how the lead of the live team said that she wants to do more small content updates instead of big ones like in April.

(I'm surprised you didn't comment on the dragon-infected hippo line!)

http://www.massively.com/2009/11/10/ncsoft-hints-at-guild-wars-2-beta-in-2010-launch-in-2011/

I was hoping for end of 2010, but I'm really not surprised.

Who knows, though. It really doesn't confirm anything either way.

(oh, Ush, I still say we should try out the Codex Arena. From what I've heard about it, Dervishes and Paragons absolutely kill at it)

2011? Jeez. Might as well be never.

I'm not joining randoms for a PvP fight, Peach. Organised teams would just wipe us and the rewards are few.

2011 is a long time indeed. Still- GW is a MASSIVE franchise; they can afford to take their time.

There might not even be a world by 2011!

Originally posted by BackFire
There might not even be a world by 2011!

ffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuu-

I'll try and get in for the beta, I guess. I hope the requirements are not too stringent.

Meh, I still want to try it.

And I'm definitely going to be seeing about getting in to beta, of course.

New trailer!

YEdr8HHJ-zU

Still really want to play a Sylvari

Also, there's information on the different races. I like how the female Charr look - much more feline than the males.

http://kotaku.com/5418953/guild-wars-2-explores-the-five-races-of-tyria

And an article with a bit more info on it, shiny.

Do you get to keep your old guild war character or you start from...Scratch.

Considering the fact that this game takes place 250 years later, you're obviously not going to be playing your GW1 character.

You can, however, reserve names through the Hall of Monuments, and stuff you have in there will get you...something in GW2. They haven't said what yet (and as a result, I haven't bothered working on titles at all or anything).

looks completely awesome.. though I kinda wish that (insert short race here) didnt always trigger artists to make them comedical sounding in a taru-taru way

Asura, and agreed.

Trailer was visually impressive (especially Divintiy Reach (which is a tiny darn village in GW1... they sure as heck re-modelled that one...) and the Charr capital) and fully voice acting all five races is good presentation... but the scripting sucked. It just sounded so generic. Which I suppose GW is in many ways... but it doesn't mean you have to emphasise it

Has GW ever been well-scripted?

At least the voice acting is continuing to get better...but I'm sure anything would be better than how Factions was voiced...

I get the feeling that gun-wielding Charr will become the new Assassin, in that everyone creates them simply because they look cool.

Divinity's Reach looked amazing. And the giant windmill impressed me as it's the same one that you see in the middle of Nebo Terrace (I think? One of the Krytan areas). And of course I think the Sylvari stuff looks awesome, but I also just spent a ton of time in the Asuran lands in EOTN, including that specific tree.

New information in this interview:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/3812/page/1

VERY good stuff in relation to what I like about a game- being able to chose a combination of factors to help define your personal story is great stuff if sone right. And for the Humans, that gives it some continuity to the previous games despite being set on just the one continent. My worry was that the sense of continuity from before would be gone as you have to play a Krytan- but now you van choose whether to be culturally Krytan, Ascalonian, Canthan or Elonan. This is good stuff for those transferring over.

And with the other races, their choices open up much more interest for them.

Oh, that's very cool. I would have been annoyed were we stuck with just Krytan for humans. Because yeah. If I make human characters, I'm going to want to try and make them as close to my Dervish and Ritualist as possible, which means needing to be able to make Elonan and Canthan characters...

That was a cool interview. Each new peice of information about the game makes me want it so much more, im so looking forward to the GW: Fall of Ascalon Novel in February, just so i can have a little taste of fresh GW lore... nom nom nom.

Want game now plx.!

Stuff!

http://www.arena.net/blog/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto

The stuff they talk about in here is awesome.

Good stuff Peach. Officially my most anticipated game ever. Ive even started logging more gw1 hours latley for the war in krytastuff, waiting for the quests to appear.

I haven't really been playing much lately (no time, plus since all I'm really doing is finishing dungeons and attempting to grind titles which is something I lack patience for, yeah), but the War in Kryta stuff is pretty neat. Though I think I'm officially never going to finish mapping or vanquishing Prophecies because of the new enemies, haha.

Definitely can't wait to see if/when they add new quests connected to it, though. Maybe I'll finally finish running my characters through Prophecies or EOTN so I can do the stuff with all of them.

More goodies!

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/part-one/



I am very intrigued by how they say skills will work.

Spells look ****ing sexy, OMG anticipat-o-meter is up to 11

Yes, it is all looking good lately. The new content for the original is very welcome too.

Amazingly, some fans are complaining about the new stuff, as if the original Guild Wars still had a massive team that was able to churn new campaigns out entirely for free. Considering it is just a handful of people trying to keep the older game alive, I think it's damn good stuff. Sure, it's mostly story fluff, but that's where GW does well, and the story is interactive enough to work well, as far as computer game plots go. You can currently go out and interact (though not affect) with plot changes in the world that affect the set up for the sequel- good stuff.

People whine about every little thing. I saw complaints about the April Fools skill update list, because people were saying "if they have time to make that list why don't they have time to do an actual skill update?". It's ridiculous.

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/part-two/

Weapons and stuff!

...no scythe. I am sad.

I want a spear!

Monster Hunter has a pokey weapon. I demand pokey!

This has me very intrigued. We know that Elementalist is in, and is going to obviously be a scholar profession. Monk is likely to stay since that's just such a mainstay of fantasy games. They'll probably combine Necromancer and Ritualist. But what about Mesmer? I love my Mesmer. And while some of what they do can be folded into Ele or Necro, a lot of what they do can't.

Adventurer will obviously have Rangers, or the equivalent. Intrigued by what the other two could be, though, since the only existing professions that wear medium armor (other than Ranger) are Assassin and Dervish.

Soldier will obviously contain Warrior, but again interested on what the other will be, since the other heavy armor profession at current is Paragon.

And I really don't think that Assassin, Dervish, or Paragon are going to be kept as separate professions - there's no mention of their main weapons in the weapon list, and what they do can fairly easily be folded into another profession.

I'm wondering how they're going to handle leveling and attributes and stuff, considering how half the skills are set by the weapon you use. Hmmm.

Want more stuff now.

I am wary of a Monk, though it depends on what they do with it. A pure healing class was a mistake in GW as it became essential for every party, and there should never be an essential class.

Now every class has its own healing option, if they once more overlay that with a pure healer... well, I worry.

Levelling was an essentially pointless mechanic in GW. Skill gathering was really what it was about. There was some talk of dumping levels. If they are in, they had better have a purpose.

Hmmm, true. Perhaps they'll keep the Monk in some manner, but diversify it a bit. Because I really cannot see them getting rid of the profession entirely, but they do seem to be moving more towards being able to take care of yourself on your own. And the Protection Prayers line is something fairly unique to GW, I can't see them getting rid of it entirely.

And true as well. Leveling itself was pretty unimportant, and was basically meant to be "okay, you're level 20, you've figured out how to play the game now, have fun". I'm more interested in how they'll handle attributes and gaining skills and stuff, and how they're going to do the weapon skills.

2 soldier classes, im thinking Warrior/Dervish(paladin type) hybrid and a Warrior/Paragon(full soldier) hybrid. Could also be Warrior/Ranger Hybrid because they mentioned warriors using guns to damage enemies from range. And since dual profs are out it leads me to belive they've combined aspects of profs from the first.

3 scholar classes. Elementalist, ritualist/necro hybrid of somesort, and Monk. The monk will stay sometimes you need a dedicated healer.

3 adventuring classes will be Ranger, Assassin and a new one. Probably a fast moving rifle weilder of somesort, makes sense i suppose, probably Hunter type of class.

Couldnt be more excited about this game.

No Mesmer in your list there, Juk3n. Which is not to say in any way that you are wrong; just a convenient way of me asking- do we think they will drop the Mesmer? It had the advantage of being a distinct class compared to other fantasy games, but to my mind had the disadvantage of being essentially a class that made things more boring as it stopped things from happening.

I really hope they do not drop the Mesmer profession. I know in GW right now they're working on an update to Mesmers to make them more viable on their own (which is good, I love the profession but they're admittedly difficult to play).

I do worry it'll be dropped entirely, though, since it is such a distinct idea and doesn't really fit into any other profession, and since there's only three scholar professions, that's likely that there's only three casting professions (since scholar/light armor = magic, more likely than not).

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No Mesmer in your list there, Juk3n. Which is not to say in any way that you are wrong; just a convenient way of me asking- do we think they will drop the Mesmer? It had the advantage of being a distinct class compared to other fantasy games, but to my mind had the disadvantage of being essentially a class that made things more boring as it stopped things from happening.

I don't think they'd fklat out drop such a unique take on a video game spell caster, there really is nothing like it in any MMO. I personally love the idea of a mesmer, but by the number of profs they mentioned, i can't fit it in. Theres a bit of a hierachy in fantasy games and in Guild Wars and mesmer fits great for an enemy, they can cause havok. But for PUG's they were a bane to alot of players.

We know they'll keep the holy trinity. Warrior-Elementalist-Monk.
That combination alone can complete the game.

They'll keep the DeathMonk(Necromancer) because minions are also part of fatasy rpg.

UNLESS..

AH-HA. ive got it, they have probably given mesmer a buff, heres my theory. Theyve made mesmer into the 3rd Adventurer class. The REAL spell casting/weapon user Invisible Weapon Master maybe. Medium armor and can cast spells. That would be a cool take on the mesmer.

So long as they don't just make it about counterspells- the most boring magic ever devised. They are going on about the Elementalist's ability to create great walls of fire; if the Mesmer's main purpose continues to be... STOPPING cool stuff like that happening then it's a bit poor.

Isuppose, but really the mesmer has always been about anti. Anit-Energy, Anti Adreniline, Anti spells, Shutdown is what the mesmer is about. it wouldnt be such a bad thing, afterall, Monks are about healing, so it would make sense to put in a class that sole purpose is to be Anti-Healing.

Like I say, counterspells are boring. One person blows a power on a mighty fireball, another blows a power stopping it. Net result? Nothing happens. That's no good.

How are you suposed to show the Mesmer off?

Here's the Warrior, making his mighty hammer sweep, smashing foes away

Here is the Elementalist, bringing forth great energies and burning foes to a crisp.

Here's the Mesmer. Note how nothing is happening? Yup, that's him doing what he does!

The purpose of the Mesmer is a great thing. The whole "counterspell" concept is something that I adore and I firmly believe it should be used in more roleplaying games more often. Mages whipping fireballs and Warriors swinging axes is grand and all but it is getting stale for me. I mean, are we to say that Yoda is boring simply because he counters Sidious' lightning and stops that?

I mean, you could show the Mesmer off in your own right. I think it's a matter of personal taste. One may think it is boring and tasteless to have such a class whereas someone may think that an entity capable of tearing down powerful magic is something to behold.

In PvP a Mesmer is always valued, even if you don't see his effects on the enemy visually. So it was still a powerful class, although I do agree that te counter spells were incredibly boring. I don't quiet understand why they added guns. I hope it doesn't ruin the mood or setting of the game.

Nowhere was I talking about their power. But the point of a class is not to make it powerful, but to make it interesting in a gameplay sense. Counterspells are very boring in a gameplay sense. The Yoda comparison is false- first of all, that WAS dramatic, but depended on it being a film narrative; it would not work in game. Secondly, people remember Yoda foremost for his power and wisdom, not his counters (which were, in any case, effectively offensive in of themselves)

Stuff should happen. A net result of 'nothing happens' is useless. It is exceptionally tedious to have your own mighty efforts fizzle. Counters should be dynamic, not just shutdowns. Ice can counter fire- great. But just a flat "this counters any spell"- poor. Meanwhile, everything else a Mesmer did just overlapped into the Curses portion of Necromancers.

It's also a balancing nightmare- vast amount of Guild Wars skills have had to be designed around the possibility of interruption. It's too much of a headache for a fundamentally boring ability.

Originally posted by Ushgarak


Stuff should happen. A net result of 'nothing happens' is useless. It is exceptionally tedious to have your own mighty efforts fizzle. Counters should be dynamic, not just shutdowns.

Stuff should not happen. How do you win PVP games? By Enemy monks spells NOT HAPPENING. How do they not happen? A Mesmer. "A net result of nothing happends" means that , that those eles over there just Failed to pull of a spike killing your monk. Thank your mesmer.

Subtle actions should exist aswell as the big grand ones. What exactly are you trying to show off when you play Mesmer? You don't have to have a Big Flashy Meteor Storm, to get satifaction out of playing a spell casting class. I know that when i play with my Mesmer Guild mate through a mission and we come up against a certain type of enemy, that this mesmer will be the most important part at this point.

Being Flashy doesn't go hand in hand with being useful. Shall we get rid of a blocking mechanic beacause "swords should hit" "a net result of a sword swing missing is useless" lol.

And as for making it "interesting from a gameplay sense" Everything in the game cannot be suited for everyone. I love playing a Warrior, i hate playing a Monk. No amount of Flashy Monk effects will make m want to play a monk. Some people love playing Mesmers the way they are, Id take a damn good Mesmer on my team anytime. They're a specialist class. But that also means that unfortunatley they are overlooked alot of the time, but really because they fit into theor own little niche they are prolly the most powerful and balanced class in the entire Guild Wars universe.

ps, when you say counters should be dynamic, not just shutdown...what exactly do you mean? give me an example of what you'd like to see implemented.

Ehh, not really. A few of the hexes are similar (combine Backfire and Empathy and you basically have Spiteful Spirit, and Visions of Regret is also pretty similar), but while Mesmers are very hex heavy they do tend to be quite different than Necro hexes. Even when we do leave the interrupts out, there's still basic punishing people for acting, energy denial, the ability to cause conditions, slowing people down, health degeneration, and just straight up exploding things.

My Necromancer uses Curses, and my Mesmer is a hexer because I don't have the reflexes to accurately interrupt. And my Mesmer is generally much more fun to play, and they are very different in how they play.

The thing with Mesmers is that they're not a very PvE-oriented profession; they're really designed more for PvP.

(and as 'boring' as it may be, don't tell me that interrupts didn't make the Crystal Desert a hell of a lot easier to deal with! )



In PvP, maybe. Not so much in PvE, which they clearly were not designed for. There's going to be a skill update soon, though, to make them more viable in PvE

But the principle that 'Mesmers cast stuff on people that messes them up" is identical to Curses. Obviously the details differ but it is the exact same principle- it is a large overlap.

-

Juk3n, you are massively missing the point there. That mentality has only evolved BECAUSE mesmers are in the game. It's self justifying and that doesn't count. Take Mesmers out, and it wouldn't matter that counterspells were not there. If they had never been there, no-one would have thought it was a hole in the game.

You have to take a more objective view of these things. Meanwhile, the fact remains that interrupts are frustrating and no fun at all for the person affected, the point remains that mesmers make balance difficult, and the point remains that dynamic gameplay (I gave an example above already) is more interesting. Gameplay as a point of quality is not as subjective as you make out. Trying to call them balanced is hilarious- they've been a massive headache to the design team.

You say 'stuff should not happen'- that total gibberish. Obviously stuff happens. That's true of every game, ever. Zero-sum game mechanics, though, are poor ones. And to be sure, a game is publicised and sells on the strength of stuff that happens. You want to make use of powers. You want to interact with the environment. You want dynamic strategies. Things that simply get in the way of this stuff happening should not be welcome. Of course, you show you are missing the point again by trying to use blocking as an example. Blocking should never be absolute (hence why Shadow Form has been nerfed), but standard attacks are common and repeatable enough to make a blocking mechanic work just fine.

And to Peach- again, you only need interrupts there because they had to base the damn game around interrupts being available. It's this self-justifying mechanical nightmare. The very fact that, similar to a monk, a decent mesmer is close to essential in many areas speaks volumes about the problem- once you have balanced everything on the idea that interrupts exist, suddenly if you DON'T have them you are in serious trouble.

If you have ever tried to design game mechanics yourself, you run into these issues almost immediately, and the maxim soon becomes 'defence is boring'.

Then you can say the same about every offensive spell in the game. Obviously the details differ, but it's still casting stuff on people to mess them up.

And Shadow Form is still pretty much god mode, even with the nerf to it. It just requires a bit more to keep it up.

Mesmer is not the only profession that interrupts, anyway. Rangers do that as well, simply with a bow instead of magic, and tend to be slightly more effective because there's less of a recharge on them. The big thing about Mesmers that makes them less interesting is the fact that so many of their spells just have insanely high recharge times.

And while yes, as a player, being interrupted sucks (stupid Dredge with their stupid Wild Blow interrupting me casting AoHM while vanquishing yesterday...grr...), getting the crap pummeled out of you does as well.

There's probably not a single place in the game where interrupting is actually necessary. I mentioned them making the Crystal Desert easier, but it certainly wasn't a requirement to get through there - I had far more trouble with all of the conditions that stuff there can cause than fighting Hydras. They can be nice in certain places (another Mesmer issue - you really have to know the areas and the mobs in them to play one effectively), but nowhere are they actually really needed.

Originally posted by Ushgarak

You have to take a more objective view of these things. Meanwhile, the fact remains that interrupts are frustrating and no fun at all for the person affected,

well duh!

Thats kinda the point, the GW system is based upon it's combat. Not just casting but anti casting. Knockdowns are frustrating and no fun if your on the recieving end. But what buffs did you have in place for such an event? Is your team prepared for the instances? It's a tactical game, with genuine split second timing for alot of skills. It's a great mechanic and should be in the game. It's where the tactics and skill come into play.

GW is a game with counter spells, and ofcourse they're not fun when used on you, but everything is counterable and adapting to them is where we get our challenge from.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Like I say, counterspells are boring. One person blows a power on a mighty fireball, another blows a power stopping it. Net result? Nothing happens. That's no good.

How are you suposed to show the Mesmer off?

Here's the Warrior, making his mighty hammer sweep, smashing foes away

Here is the Elementalist, bringing forth great energies and burning foes to a crisp.

Here's the Mesmer. Note how nothing is happening? Yup, that's him doing what he does!

that shows you've missed the point of the mesmer. They guy playing the mesmer is prolly having a great time, he knows he's just shut down an enemy ele and maybe saved the entire team, i cant get my head around what exactly your problem is with them.

"show the mesmer off" meaning what? a big purple explosion when the interrupt? it's a lame argument dude. It's ANETS challenge to balance a game around being skillfull and quick with interrupts and skill/spell timing. They did an alright job imo. It's the mechanic they've based there combat on and if ya dont like it...

No, that not at all true about offensive spells. That's a very vague and weird comment,. Offensive spells have dozens of different ways they work and interact- and the principle here is entirely different as it is not as if attacking people is a niche that should be restricted to one class.

Getting the crap pummelled out of you is, again, fundamentally different to having your stuff countered. The first makes you feel powerless and is boring. The second comes from being outplayed, from making a mistake or from being outnumbered. That's just gaming. Interrupts, in contrast, can actively ruin your playing experience.

Rangers do it incidentally, and it is not their most appealing qualitry. Mesmers are part dedicated to it and illustrate the issue. Rangers are not a balancing problem. Mesmers are.

There are enough places where interrupts are a dramatic force multiplier that you are simply screwing yourself over by not making use of as to make the concept an issue.

Honestly, several of you are not thinking straight about how game mechanics work and how the affect the entire design of a game. The insane situation that skills reached in GW is one of the reasons they started over.

Originally posted by Juk3n
well duh!

Thats kinda the point, the GW system is based upon it's combat. Not just casting but anti casting. Knockdowns are frustrating and no fun if your on the recieving end. But what buffs did you have in place for such an event? Is your team prepared for the instances? It's a tactical game, with genuine split second timing for alot of skills. It's a great mechanic and should be in the game. It's where the tactics and skill come into play.

GW is a game with counter spells, and ofcourse they're not fun when used on you, but everything is counterable and adapting to them is where we get our challenge from.



that shows you've missed the point of the mesmer. They guy playing the mesmer is prolly having a great time, he knows he's just shut down an enemy ele and save the entire team, i cant get my head around what exactly your problem is with them?

"show the mesmer off" meaning what? a big purple explosion when the interrupt? it's a lame argument dude. It's ANETS challenge to balance a game around being skillfull and quick with interrupts and skill/spell timing. They did an alright job imo.

No, still not thinking straight. You cannot justify it on the grounds that one person is having fun at another's expense- that's VERY poor gaming. If you say the point of the mesmer is to irritate and reduce the gaming quality time of a player, you have messed up ideas about good games. You cannot justify bad mechanics on good tactical interplay either. In any case, I firmly believe the game tactics would be much improved without any interrupts.

Like I say, mesmers have always been a balance nightmare for the team and the fundamental purpose of counterspells is a mistake in an action game of this sort.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, still not thinking straight. You cannot justify it on the grounds that one person is having fun at another's expense

welcome to COMPETITIVE MULTIPLAYER lol

are you kidding me? That can be applied to any competitive multiplyer game ever made dude, seriously. It's called tactics, you don't want to get interrupted? Bring a hex breaker, spell breaker, faint out his interupt with a skill you don't need right at that minute.

If your spell gets interrupted and that causes you to not want to play the game anymore then lol. You obviously don't like the system , don't play it. But you can't call something a faulty mechanic because it hinders your personal progression through a certain part of a game, thats poor logic ESPECIALLY in this case. How would Any warrior EVER beat an elementalist if there were no interrupts? How would ANYONE ever overcome an elementalist without the use of spell stopping skills/spells? Not having fun, because your tactic is getting countered is for kids dude, there is no justification.

Well, that just shows you are not reading what I said properly. You are basically wrong if you think that that is how games work- defeating other people is nit the same as destroying their gameplay experience. And you trying to justify counterspells on the back of the awkward jumble of meta-mechanics that have been forced to evolve around it- further complicating the game and making balance an even bigger nightmare- is an indication of inadequate analysis.

And again, you are showing exceptionally muddled thinking if you think a game NEEDS mesmers else Elementalists are unbeatable. That's absolutely ridiculous. Many games have nukers but don;t needed dedicated counterspells. That you even made such a comment shows how totally unable you are to give this the objective view it needs. You have allowed your views to become skewed by thinking the way the game has evolved is the only way the game can work- a fundamental, square one error.

Anyway, you clearly don't agree. which is a shame, because if you listened you might learn something about how mechanic design works. I've laid out my points as I see them, anyhow. As it is, I cannot pursue the argument with someone who cannot see the basics.

dude your main point in 3 of your posts were - being interrupted isnt fun - thats weak sauce no matter what you mix it with. The fact it's a competitive game, it happens to have counters to alot of tactics readily available - like mesmers interrupts - your logic that "it's not fun to have my fireball interrupted, it ruins my gampla experience and shouldnt be in the game" is faulty.

As a warrior, it's not fun to get hit with a Fireball..do you think it ruins my gameplay experience?

Actually that's not my main point- it is a detail of one of my many points.

Your last sentence there shows, again, you are not understanding what I am saying, so we'll just have to leave it at that.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Actually that's not my main point- it is a detail of one of my many points.

Your last sentence there shows, again, you are not understanding what I am saying, so we'll just have to leave it at that.

fair doos pal, im missing your point somewhat. I dont wanna fight anywho, who knows we may end up bumping into eachother in the return to tyria, i dont wanna make an enemy out of ya on a forum

ignoring the back and forth weve jsut had, i personally think mesmers will be in the new game in some role. Im willing to bet they're hybrided though, with an adventuring class. The same way bard is not a scholarly class but an adventuring spell caster, But i guess we'll find out soon ^^

If they've redone how mesmers operate, then they may well be great.

Still, if Mesmers ARE in, what of the other options do you think have been dropped? Monk or Necro?

Well, I'd rather keep Mesmer in than Monk or Necro, personally. If they kill off Dervish, Ritualist, and Mesmer, that's my favorite professions all gone, and I've no idea what I'd even play (guess it'd depend on what new ones they'd add in).

With how they're making self-healing much bigger than it was previously, I'm sure they could do away with Monk entirely. I just don't know if they would because it is such a standard in fantasy games.

I'd say that they'd probably keep Necro because it's a pretty big mainstay and you can get pretty much anywhere with a decent one, but...they're not much fun to play. They're a lot better as a hero, in my opinion. Just too much fiddlyness and when it comes down to it, if you're not running Curses/Spiteful Spirit or walls of minions, you're pretty useless, and even minion builds can be pretty useless (and - Ritualists are better anyway for minions, as they can create stronger ones that last longer). People complain that Paragons and Ritualists are pigeonholed into one useful build, but Necromancers are pretty much the same way. Their flexibility pretty much comes from the fact that their primary attribute allows them to run anything as a secondary without energy problems.

They could very well make one of them a midline Adventurer profession, though. Mesmer would be a good choice for that. They're squishy, normally, but they've got plenty of defensive options and are really very very good at causing and controlling conditions.

None to be fair, i think Necros and monks are a dead cert, im really curious to see what they've done. The only reason i say they've kept mesmers is because they're pretty much the most unique thing in GW as far as fantasy rpg elements go.

I believe what Ushgarak is trying to say is that there's a difference between being outclassed by the other opponent's strategy by him dishing out more damage or having more defense, and being completely useless and unable to do anything when your being interrupted. If your an Elementalist and a Mesmer is on you, then no matter how hard you try the chances are you are now useless. This might be fun for the Mesmer as he knows that he's 'aggravating' the Elementalist and proving him useless, but it's also proving the Mesmer useless in the battle. If you have a GvG and one of your Mesmers is constantly on the opposing teams Elementalist, you might as well have a 7 on 7.

Although, you could make an argument that you could use Mesmers as utilities for other things such as interrupting any Ressurection Spells or having an interrupt for the Hall of Heroes. You could also say by minimizing the amount of people truly in the battle, by practically having a 7 on 7 instead of an 8 on 8 because your Mesmer and the enemy Elementalist cancel each other out, then if the rest of your team is more greatly experienced then the difference between the skill of both groups of players is going to be greater.

If the 'worse' players are 'canceled' out of your team by being Mesmers then your team has a higher chance of winning. Although, honestly, this is a bunch of bullcrap because nobody ever thinks that way and Interruption Mesmers tend to be the most skillful players. It requires a lot of reflex and experience.

Mesmer coming in as an adventurer is not out of the question- they always had a dapper style to their outfits, and being a trickster-type would seem to fit 'Adventurer'. I do think that would have to involve a shift of what they do to some extent, else... well, as they currently are they are blatantly scholars. Still, I could be wrong.

What do we think the other soldier class is? Will it be heavy vs. light warrior types, or a more fundamental distinction?

I think the two warrior typs will be..

Warrior - master of melee, devastating attacks up close and such. (great sword wielder, or dual wield) Similar to Aions Gladiator class. Will have more rushing/AoE orientated skills.

Elite Soldier, (warrior / paragon hybrid) more defensive type of warrior (sword and shield, sword and rifle proficiency) Liek Aions Templar. Some party Buff shouts, well, more than the other warrior anyway. Will have more shield orientated skills.

The third and most unlikely option is the true paladin (Warrior/Dervish) hybrid, Knight/soldier class or somesuch. but then again the balance issues of such a true hybrid might upset things

I think they might go with a rogue, an assassin/ranger hybrid.

And the other soldier class could be a buff/debuff type of soldier while the other a primary tank. It's either that, or something like a Berserker or Bladedancer, a soldier with less armor than the primary tank but he would be able to dual wield. Relies a lot on stances and stuff.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Mesmer coming in as an adventurer is not out of the question- they always had a dapper style to their outfits, and being a trickster-type would seem to fit 'Adventurer'. I do think that would have to involve a shift of what they do to some extent, else... well, as they currently are they are blatantly scholars. Still, I could be wrong.

What do we think the other soldier class is? Will it be heavy vs. light warrior types, or a more fundamental distinction?

I almost wonder if some of the Paragon stuff could be melded with the Mesmer? I mean, party buffs and enemy debuffs are very similar and could easily be handled by one profession, I'd think. Hmmm.

I do definitely think that, moreso than any of the other casting professions, Mesmer would work as an Adventurer-type, though yes they would need some definite reworking. As I pointed out, they already have plenty of personal defense options in the various Mantras, they're great with causing (and spreading!) conditions, and they even have a skill that let them be quite effective with a weapon. So it's not too much of a jump.

As for the soldier professions - I'm not sure. A light warrior could really be an adventurer more than a soldier, really. My guess is that it'll probably be something a bit bigger than that.



Noooooo tanking is bad and boring. Drawing aggro = okay. Tanking and doing little else = baaaad.

I like the idea of a hybrid/Paladin type, though I don't see it terribly likely. But I'm biased. I want to continue playing Dervish!

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Nowhere was I talking about their power. But the point of a class is not to make it powerful, but to make it interesting in a gameplay sense. Counterspells are very boring in a gameplay sense. The Yoda comparison is false- first of all, that WAS dramatic, but depended on it being a film narrative; it would not work in game. Secondly, people remember Yoda foremost for his power and wisdom, not his counters (which were, in any case, effectively offensive in of themselves)

Stuff should happen. A net result of 'nothing happens' is useless. It is exceptionally tedious to have your own mighty efforts fizzle. Counters should be dynamic, not just shutdowns. Ice can counter fire- great. But just a flat "this counters any spell"- poor. Meanwhile, everything else a Mesmer did just overlapped into the Curses portion of Necromancers.

It's also a balancing nightmare- vast amount of Guild Wars skills have had to be designed around the possibility of interruption. It's too much of a headache for a fundamentally boring ability.

My narrative would be false if Yoda's absorption powers were there *purely* as a narrative but that wasn't the case. It might just work in a game because the Bioware development team for "The Old Republic" plans to incorporate Yoda's absorption/elimination force powers into the "Consular" class. I agree that some of his powers were mildly offensive due to utilizing redirection but we've all seen Yoda simply make lightning disappear without necessarily redirecting it towards his opponent. This is his powers of control, which is something we know the Mesmer has.

As I mentioned previously, the Mesmer's abilities being "boring" is vastly subjective. Also, Mesmers do not really make nothing happen. They steal, deceive and build illusions which enhances their main skills - control and distraction. A part of me understands that kind of frustration but I simply cannot emphasize. Having giant walls of fire and deadly torrents of ice crushing everything in it's path with only another deadly spell to stop it seems too familiar and too boring to me.

Mesmers were definitely the highlight of creativity in GW to me... though I'm more interested in playing the paladin types because I generally enjoy melee and being able to help friends when needed

but I'm still rolling Asura >< *gets all selfish*

Originally posted by Ultraviolence
My narrative would be false if Yoda's absorption powers were there *purely* as a narrative but that wasn't the case. It might just work in a game because the Bioware development team for "The Old Republic" plans to incorporate Yoda's absorption/elimination force powers into the "Consular" class. I agree that some of his powers were mildly offensive due to utilizing redirection but we've all seen Yoda simply make lightning disappear without necessarily redirecting it towards his opponent. This is his powers of control, which is something we know the Mesmer has.

As I mentioned previously, the Mesmer's abilities being "boring" is vastly subjective. Also, Mesmers do not really make nothing happen. They steal, deceive and build illusions which enhances their main skills - control and distraction. A part of me understands that kind of frustration but I simply cannot emphasize. Having giant walls of fire and deadly torrents of ice crushing everything in it's path with only another deadly spell to stop it seems too familiar and too boring to me.

And if they can create and control illusions in an interesting and dynamic way, rather than just being shutdown merchants, then they will be very welcome.

Paladin types are noticably missing in GW, with the Dervish being the closest.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Mesmers were definitely the highlight of creativity in GW to me... though I'm more interested in playing the paladin types because I generally enjoy melee and being able to help friends when needed

but I'm still rolling Asura >< *gets all selfish*

I'm actually not normally a melee person myself; GW is just odd in that most of the casting professions did not really appeal to me much. Mesmer and Ritualist are the only ones that I've really gotten into and enjoyed playing. Dervish managed to be just the right mix of melee and casting that I decided it was amazing about five minutes after making mine, heh.

And haha, knowing me I'll end up with at least one of each race/profession. Definitely the most interested in Sylvari though.

Originally posted by Peach
I'm actually not normally a melee person myself; GW is just odd in that most of the casting professions did not really appeal to me much. Mesmer and Ritualist are the only ones that I've really gotten into and enjoyed playing. Dervish managed to be just the right mix of melee and casting that I decided it was amazing about five minutes after making mine, heh.

And haha, knowing me I'll end up with at least one of each race/profession. Definitely the most interested in Sylvari though.

Yes, another Dervish player! I absolutely love playing as the Dervish but people are always ragging on me about how shoddy they are. I don't understand why because my Dervish is actually quite powerful, along with my Mesmer.

I really hope the racial benefits don't turn out to bite people in the ass though, i dont wanna see

'GLF Need Nuker, but must be Sylvari Nuker as they get +2 to , so any nuker from any other race is obsolete'

i wanna see how they balance such a huge numebr of options in regards to racial bonus/profesion synergy. I dont wanna see it turn into a clonefest where all eles are Sylvari, All warriors are norn, all riflemen are Char and all mes/nec/ are Asuri just because they messed up balance.

What titles/ranks did everyone here achieve? I'm most proud of my r10 hero, r3 glad, and champ titles. Thank god I'll be able to transfer them to Guild Wars 2.

Ummm. I have maxed out two so far (Protector of Tyria and Elona). Right now it's looking like the only others I'm going to max are vanquishing Cantha and Elona, Sunspear and Lightbringer, maybe Cartographer, and maybe an EOTN rep.

Maybe.

I really don't try for titles much. If I get any of the cartography ones done, it'll be simply from exploring while vanquishing.

What's gw like?

Originally posted by Spidervlad
What titles/ranks did everyone here achieve? I'm most proud of my r10 hero, r3 glad, and champ titles. Thank god I'll be able to transfer them to Guild Wars 2.

they'll maybe be in you ancestors Hall of Monuments, but you wont be able to display them on your new character , after all, theyare titles for competeing in a totally diferent game.

I got Protector of Tyria/Cantha/Elona. Tyrian Gaurdian and skill hunter and legendary survivor. I got about 4 titles NEARLY done but im too busy helping randoms and general missioning to bother grinding out the last few. As long as i have a little something in every area of my HoM im happy, got some eite weaps, armors/pets/heroes and titles, im good to cross over.

Originally posted by Warden
What's gw like?

Was awsome at the start , when it was packe with entheusiastic people, it's a shadow of its former self community wise, but the game itself, is beautiful. Watch the video review on Gamespot to get a good idea of what its like, just bare in mind that if you bought it now, you'd do alot of the game solo. But it's crafted fantastically.

I have 10 titles maxed- three lots of Protector, all four Cartography, Sunspear, Lightbringer and Vanguard. Not at all interested in any PvP ones; 10 will do me.

Peach will never get cartographer.

When I gEt my pc fixed I may buy this.

I highly recommend Guild Wars as a game. It very much exceeded my expectations of it. I heard it was a hardcore PvP game so I bought it with trepidation, but I feel the single player and co-op is extremely good and solid as well. With all four sets available at good prices, this has, by a LONG way, given me the highest hours played/money paid ratio of any game ever.

Just for Pc i assume, always wAnted a game like thi to play

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I highly recommend Guild Wars as a game. It very much exceeded my expectations of it. I heard it was a hardcore PvP game so I bought it with trepidation, but I feel the single player and co-op is extremely good and solid as well. With all four sets available at good prices, this has, by a LONG way, given me the highest hours played/money paid ratio of any game ever.
me too, hours played = > 5000

I have actually played this game longer then any other game that I ever owned. When I just got it I was into both PvP and PvE, but then towards the end of Factions and when Nightfall came out, the community was spread so thin out over all the continents that it was completely impossible to find a full group of players to complete missions or quests with. That kind of ruined PvE for me, as I really like to interact with other players rather than use henchmen or even heroes. And then from the beginning of Nightfall I completely centered around PvP.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I have 10 titles maxed- three lots of Protector, all four Cartography, Sunspear, Lightbringer and Vanguard. Not at all interested in any PvP ones; 10 will do me.

Peach will never get cartographer.

I will never get Tyrian Cartographer because to hell with redoing missions again to map those last little bits (because I'm pretty sure that's all I'm really missing). The other two I may get simply because I plan on vanquishing and the two go very hand-in-hand.

I should really go back and get the master rewards on those two missions I didn't yet in Factions so I'll have the Protector title for that too.

I was working on Legendary Survivor on my Paragon, but I managed to lose it to lag about halfway to rank 2. I was not pleased with that.

Probably most proud of my armor collection (I, uh, spend way too much money on armor in-game) and my Underworld statue in the HoM, since when I did UW was right when they first added in Dhuum and people were bitching and complaining it was impossible to do with a group that didn't consist of only Assassins so a bunch of us went and beat it. I think we were probably among the first groups to do so, it was pretty awesome, and the first and only time I've done UW.

Originally posted by Peach
.The other two I may get simply because I plan on vanquishing and the two go very hand-in-hand. .

I know people say that- but honestly, not really. You won't get cartographer by vanquishing.

You're also missing more than just those mission bits on Tyria.

Meanwhile, here's the latest:

http://www.arena.net/blog/nine-gw2-follow-up-questions-with-eric-flannum

Companions are out- no NPCs with you at all.

They are still talking up how, even though it is not instanced, they are removing all the potential irritations of having other people around. They also say leeching will be impractical. I'm still sceptical on both counts though- I want them to be right, but I fear it is logically impossible to completely cut out these things.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Meanwhile, here's the latest:

http://www.arena.net/blog/nine-gw2-follow-up-questions-with-eric-flannum

Companions are out- no NPCs with you at all.

They are still talking up how, even though it is not instanced, they are removing all the potential irritations of having other people around. They also say leeching will be impractical. I'm still sceptical on both counts though- I want them to be right, but I fear it is logically impossible to completely cut out these things.

GRievers will always be inMMO's you can't filter them out , just be thankful that the GW crowd is a little different, a little more grown-up.

It doesn't matter so much that they are there. It matters if they can cock up your gaming experience.

I'm not sure this dynamic event system will be that great either. I want to game at my own pace sometimes. I can do that in GW. I don't think it will be that simple in GW2.

well, it's a heavy RP mechanic really, a rallying call to arms at the drop of a hat to some nearby village that being attacked, so you and your few guildies head over an find some rampaging orcs, sounds like an exciting system personally, but if you're of the view that - if your busy doing something else, and can't get to the event, and feel like you're gonna missout on special drops/xp/w/e, i doubt the system will be THAT rewarding to the participants. They'll likely just be for fun and to keep the world feeling alive.

I can see myself enjoying it, just not ALWAYS enjoying it. I worry it will become wearying.

In short, I am just nervous about anything that might get in the way of me just wanting to do my own thing, unbothered. A game should allow for that.

And maybe this will- we'll see.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Meanwhile, here's the latest:

http://www.arena.net/blog/nine-gw2-follow-up-questions-with-eric-flannum

Companions are out- no NPCs with you at all.

They are still talking up how, even though it is not instanced, they are removing all the potential irritations of having other people around. They also say leeching will be impractical. I'm still sceptical on both counts though- I want them to be right, but I fear it is logically impossible to completely cut out these things.

Seriously that is probably the most off-putting thing so far.

Meanwhile, much as I like the current 'War in Kryta' storyline in GW that is first in a series of events that bridge the gap in GW2, the problem id that only a tiny fraction of people can see all of it.

As an example. One of two new scenes added in today's update is Evennia- leader of the Shining Blade in Prophecies- turning up at the Eye of the North and asking the Ebon Vanguard for help against the White Mantle- in return for which she offers to help wipe out the Charr in Ascalon (with a slightly tragic feel, we know that will never happen as they are still there in GW2).

All very well and good and plot advancing. The problem is, you can only see this scene if:

1. You have seen the scene before where Evennia leaves the Shining Blade camp in the Talmark Wilderness. This involves you actually having found the camp in the first place, as it has only existed a few weeks and unless you check out guides or the wiki you wouldn't actually know it was there.

2, Even if you do know it is there, you have to have competed Prophecies or EOTN to see the Camp, else the location is in its original state as it was in Prophecies.

3. But the conversation outside the Eye of the North furthers the Gwen/Thackeray love story which is also part of the GW2 buld up. To see this scene, therefore, you also need to have seen and completed the previous scene in THAT story

4. Which means having completed the scavenger hunt for Gwen's surprise birthday

5. You only get to do the scavenger hunt if you have seen the scenes in the Hall of Monuments leading up to it. Which you can only see if you have completed either EOTN or the EOTN Wintersday Quests.


So. To see this new scene, you have to have:

1. Completed Prophecies

2. Found the Shining Blade Camp and viewed all the previous scenes there

3. Completed EOTN (or the Wintersday quests in it)

4. Followed the Gwen/Thackeray scenes at the Hall of Monuments

AND

5. Completed the Gwen Scavenger Hunt (not the hardest, but not a casual thing!)

...

That's got to be fewer than 1 in 10 players! Fine, I just saw it, but geez...

Hmmm, I must have missed a scene at the camp - she's not appearing at the Eye for me and I know I've done everything else.

Time to go see what I missed...

(assuming, of course, that my connection will even let me, grrr...)

It's actually just outside she turns up, if that helps.

Yeah, apparently I didn't see all of the scenes at the camp.

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dynamic-events/dynamic-events-overview/

Just sort of skimmed it so far, but hey, more stuff!

Great stuff! Go Anet with the innovation

So... hows the character creation gonna work exactly.. they're still gonna have races and classes?.. I dont even recall them announcing the classes you can pick from

the races have been announced 'Human, Norn, Charr, Sylvari and Asura.

And the classes have somewhat been given. 2 Soldier/warrior classes, 3 adventuring classses (probably ranger and assassin type) And 3 scholar classesx (elementalist being one of them, the rest are sepculation, necro and memser)

This wait is almost unbearable.

If you want to see a truly revolutionary MMO search Tera Online in google.

Yeah terra is going to be amazing.. but I feel as though it might not take off due to people not being willing to drop their current MMO for it

Events in GW have now spread to Lion's Arch, but the system they have available for telling the story is imperfect. Lion's Arch has now been taken by the Shining Blade, but in game it still looks as if the White Mantle run it- except for one small area you can go into to see the new version.

Not their fault- the team isn't big enough to make major changes and it would be a continuity headache for those still playing through the original plotline- but it is still a shame.

Meanwhile, the more they talk about each class having its own healing solution, the more I wonder if the 'removed' spellcaster class would be the Monk. Or maybe the Monk will be re-tooled away from healing. We'll see.

That said, the issue of having a 'healer' is now a very different animal from the original, as it is no longer a party-based system by default.

Oooh oooh oooh stuff happened that I missed? Hmmmmmmmmmm will need to check that out at some point today...

Are there any other cutscenes that need to be seen at the Shining Blade camp for the new area in Lion's Arch to turn up?

Here is the current flow chart for the events of War in Kryta.

Talk about hoop jumping!

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/7/7a/War_in_Kryta_flow_chart.png