Deathwing Vs. Lich King

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Q'Anilia
Fact: As it has now been announced, Lich King will be alive when the new expansion takes place and will be fought at the same time as Deathwing. The Horde and Alliance will be fighting two wars.

Thread: Both villains is therefore fighting for dominance and Lich King is not so fond in competition. So he decides that any threat to his reign has got to go. So he wages war against Deathwing.

While the Scourge and the soldiers of the Black flight clash, Lich King attacks Deathwing when he is flying past Blackrock Mountains, forcing him to the ground with a trap that Deathwing easily shatters.

Then the two entities battle for survival.

Who would win?


Rules: The Lich King can not attack from the spirit realm and Deathwing may not use Endless Hunger. In order to drain his soul, Lich King needs to injure him a great deal. The Lich King will have all his Death Knight, Paladin and Lich King feats and theory is allowed for both characters.

Lich King may not use his 'Grasp of the Lich King' ability nor may he use his 'Apocalypse' ability.

Burning thought
Well theoretically I would imagine that the Lich King could destroy Deathwings mind, his mind is so vast and his conciousness seemingly so powerful that he can mentally control the entire scourge without problems and the information on him states that his mind and conciousness were empowered to a scale thousands if not tens (I cant remember the number by heart) of thousands the normal value. his mind already being so intelligent and his powers already that of an Orc shaman/warlock of high renown.

I think he will shatter Deathwings mind in an instant or at least turn it against him.

Q'Anilia
The Lich King does not control the Scourge. He leads them, yes. He grant them life and power, yes. He doesn't move them.
There are several occasions where the power of the Lich King has proven inadequate, or limited with another choice of words. They are called Sir Zeliek, Darion Mograine, Sylvanas Windrunner, Matthias Lehner, Dar'Khan Drathir and Anub'Arak.

Each one of the listed minds are weaker than Deathwing and it's with certainty that I say that Arthas will be needing a lot more than mere mind magic in order to bend Deathwing. Let's not forget that he sent Ysera running tail between her legs when she assaulted his mind, and that he once again banished her from his mind when they fought in Day of the Dragon.

This would be without considering the fact that Deathwing is a potent magician and even the weaker ones has proven able to ward their minds from mind magic.


Furthermore, I'll point out that Ner'Zhul is no longer part of the Lich King. This decrease Lich King's strategical capabilities significantly, since the amplified level of his mind is now from the base of Arthas rather than Ner'Zhul who was much more of a genius than Arthas.

I think it'll more come down to a hack and slash battle when both realise that neither side will go down by simple spellcasting. Both are powerful enough to counter spells at will and what spells that will be applied will probably not directly effect the opponent but rather use the surrounding land as an advantage or to buff.

Burning thought
I dont think LK will use mind magic, just his incredible mental power. And I would put LK over Ysera mentally speaking, theoretically ofc.

When you say weaker magicans ward their minds from mind magic, do you mean normal mind magic, or the LK himself?

What states that Ner'Zhul is gone and only Arthas remains? I never knew this...

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont think LK will use mind magic, just his incredible mental power. And I would put LK over Ysera mentally speaking, theoretically ofc.

When you say weaker magicans ward their minds from mind magic, do you mean normal mind magic, or the LK himself?

What states that Ner'Zhul is gone and only Arthas remains? I never knew this...

1. Anything invasive of the mind of another is mind magic. No exceptions.

2. I'm talking about Illidan warding himself from Sargeras.

3. Ner'Zhul was "killed" in 'Rise of the Lich King'

SuperLuigi
was it wrath of deathwing? nope so with that said im going to biasly pick the one who caused my roomate to wait 2 hours at a gamestop.

Burning thought
1. So using your mind to do things even if its based on physical level is magic in warcraft? you sure? whats that idea based on, is it specifically stated?

2. Illidan seems more impressive to me than I first thought if he can ward his mind from Sargeras trying to mind control/read his thoughts, unless this was passive protectoin.

3. Was he? can you explain please....by whom, how etc?

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by SuperLuigi
was it wrath of deathwing? nope so with that said im going to biasly pick the one who caused my roomate to wait 2 hours at a gamestop.

So he won't wait for Cataclysm?

SuperLuigi
i think he stopped playing

ares834
Deathwing wins...

He woke from a nap and Azeroth broke. /thread

Q'Anilia
He didn't take a nap though. He was scheming. He decided that the world would once and for all end, so he erupted lava all across the planet and disfigured it by breaking land and exploding vulcanos smile It's the Earth Warden right there for you. The Aspect of Earth.

ares834
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
He didn't take a nap though. He was scheming. He decided that the world would once and for all end, so he erupted lava all across the planet and disfigured it by breaking land and exploding vulcanos smile It's the Earth Warden right there for you. The Aspect of Earth.
I was joking. Anyhow this expansion may get me in WoW again.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Burning thought
1. So using your mind to do things even if its based on physical level is magic in warcraft? you sure? whats that idea based on, is it specifically stated?

2. Illidan seems more impressive to me than I first thought if he can ward his mind from Sargeras trying to mind control/read his thoughts, unless this was passive protectoin.

3. Was he? can you explain please....by whom, how etc?

1. There's nothing physical about invading a mind.

2. He warded his mind, so he was actively preventing Sargeras from entering it.

3. Ysera is by feats, background and title more powerful mentally than the Lich King.

Utrigita
He shrugged of Ysera's mind attack in Days of the Dragon (granted before she had gained her entire strength back) but that is still the very same Ysera that was in progress of raping the Burning Legion forces in War of the Ancient. Furthermore it toke the Old Gods time to invade Deathwings mind, it wasn't instantanous. As for Magic I see Deathwing having the advantage as well, Strength and Durability isn't really a contest Deathwings take that too.

From my point of view Deathwing for the win.

ScreamPaste
I agree that Deathwing should win this, Lich King's mostly dangerous on a technicality, imho.

EvilAngel
Deathwing.

His power is "Tenfold" what it was. So anything we know about him, we need to literally multiply.

They are even if you don't consider this but if you do. It's pretty one sided.


Also consider, Kil'Jaeden empowered the Lich King, while it's true he become more powerful than Kil'Jaeden intended it should be pointed out Deathwing was empowered by a Pantheon. Someone on the same sort of strength level as Sargeras himself.



Deathwing took years and years to be affected by the Old Gods. Even assuming Yogg and LK are as powerful (VERY unlikely, but to put down the idea) it would take the LK years to affect Deathwing mentally.

Burning thought
Although does it say Kiljaeden only empowered LK with a portion of his own power? he could have given more power to the LK than the Pantheon member gave to Deathwing.

Have the Old gods ever mentally enslaved anyone quickly?

EvilAngel
Originally posted by Burning thought
Although does it say Kiljaeden only empowered LK with a portion of his own power? he could have given more power to the LK than the Pantheon member gave to Deathwing.

Have the Old gods ever mentally enslaved anyone quickly?

Fair enough lol. I guess that's a valid point. Though, Kil'jaeden was empowered by Sargeras, as Deathwing was empowered by Khaz'goroth. So yeah, you could argue, that they could be the same, but then, it just feels somewhat unlikely without it being specified.

My theory is simply; Someone of the same sort of power level who empowered Deathwing, empowered Kil'jaeden, who then empowered LK.

massive ABC logic i know but, then consider since then that Deathwings power has increased "tenfold"

In my eyes it paints a picture that seems to suggest Deathwing is just more powerful than any enemy that has ever even appeared on Azeroth before. (Sargeras excluded)



Have you not fought the Yogg-Saronn fight in Ulduar yet? ;p

He can do it just by looking at you when he uses some sort of gaze attack, very annoying.

Thoughout the whole fight the harder part is avoiding all his abilities that turn you against your team. And trust me, he has quite a few of them.

Then consider it was said he was turned by Old Gods. More than one. So yeah, it's difficult to assume the LK, badass has he is, can Mind whip Deathwing into line.

Q'Anilia
Lich King is a 2nd grade empowerment.
Deathwing is a 1st grade.

- Deathwing was empowered by a member of the Pantheon,
- Lich King was empowered by someone empowered by a member of the Pantheon.

So technically, Deathwing has all the reasons in the world to still be more powerful than Lich King, even if judging purely on who empowered who.
Let's also not forget that the Pantheon didn't exactly hold back on the empowerments. Look at Malygos, Nozdormu and Ysera. They are all insanely powerful.
They have all done feats that Lich King can't even compare to at his current state.


Let's not forget that Deathwing resisted Ysera. Ysera is Lich King superior in every way mentally.

Burning thought
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Fair enough lol. I guess that's a valid point. Though, Kil'jaeden was empowered by Sargeras, as Deathwing was empowered by Khaz'goroth. So yeah, you could argue, that they could be the same, but then, it just feels somewhat unlikely without it being specified.

My theory is simply; Someone of the same sort of power level who empowered Deathwing, empowered Kil'jaeden, who then empowered LK.

massive ABC logic i know but, then consider since then that Deathwings power has increased "tenfold"

In my eyes it paints a picture that seems to suggest Deathwing is just more powerful than any enemy that has ever even appeared on Azeroth before. (Sargeras excluded)



Have you not fought the Yogg-Saronn fight in Ulduar yet? ;p

He can do it just by looking at you when he uses some sort of gaze attack, very annoying.

Thoughout the whole fight the harder part is avoiding all his abilities that turn you against your team. And trust me, he has quite a few of them.

Then consider it was said he was turned by Old Gods. More than one. So yeah, it's difficult to assume the LK, badass has he is, can Mind whip Deathwing into line.

Hm fair point indeed.



Ah ive read about him being able to do that although I was more specifically thinking about in lore, I know he can MC, I meant more like the LK in lore controlled all those entities around him and just to test his power created a plague that swept across the peoples.

Perhaps but a possibility theoretically. I think thats certainly one of his best ways of winning, his mental capacity.


Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Lich King is a 2nd grade empowerment.
Deathwing is a 1st grade.

- Deathwing was empowered by a member of the Pantheon,
- Lich King was empowered by someone empowered by a member of the Pantheon.

So technically, Deathwing has all the reasons in the world to still be more powerful than Lich King, even if judging purely on who empowered who.
Let's also not forget that the Pantheon didn't exactly hold back on the empowerments. Look at Malygos, Nozdormu and Ysera. They are all insanely powerful.
They have all done feats that Lich King can't even compare to at his current state.


Let's not forget that Deathwing resisted Ysera. Ysera is Lich King superior in every way mentally.

Its not necessarily as black and white as that, for example:

Lets assume that each pantheon member only gave each Kiljaeden and Deathwing 10% of their power, dont forget the Eredar were already incredibly powerful, their culture based on magic, their paramount spells were their own I think as well? so.....perhaps Kiljaeden is at base value far stronger than base Deathwing, then with their enhancements Killy is still powerful.

Also then take into account that although we know the Pantheon member only gave Deathwing a portion of his power, Kiljaeden may have given, and I would assume this myself far more than a portion, the legion certainly treid to keep the LK from gaining a body and they were certainly worried about him being free, so they certainly consider him a threat. Did Archimonde when he was on Azeroth go and actively try and stop an aspect?


By feats, but theoretically? I dont know about that....tbh the LK has such a vast consciousness and hes not really done much so far despite having his own Exp pack. I mean whats he done? sat behind his walls most of the time, hes appeared in cutscenes but hes not really done much at all...hes been more of a talker than someone who takes action so far. I wager by the time we get to face him he is certainly going to have done something worth noting.

Also whos higher level, LK or Deathwing in WoW?

Q'Anilia
Archimonde on Azeroth never fought an Aspect. So we wouldn't be able to compare from anything of the sort. It's an unknown how the power of a Kil'Jaeden empowerment differ from a Khaz'Goroth empowerment, but one thing is definate: Kil'Jaeden has a much more limited mind than anyone in the Pantheon.

When Lich King broke loose, Kil'Jaeden was more hurt pride-wise than considered him a threat. It's been proven over and over again that Kil'Jaedens greatest weakness is his pride. He didn't kill Ner'Zhul because he was ashamed over the fact that Ner'Zhul had escaped him for so long. He was also humiliated by the fact that Velen has evaded them for even longer.

He empowered Ner'Zhul as a punishment and not as a token of power. When Ner'Zhul then broke the link, Kil'Jaeden truth be told didn't hesitate to attain contacts within Azeroth in order to enter himself and deal with the problem. He was personally going for the Lich King. Kil'Jaeden has NEVER before personally gone for anyone.

That alone is reason enough to think that Kil'Jaeden was confident enough that Lich King, while more powerful than ever before, wasn't powerful enough to compare to Kil'Jaeden.

Theory, of course, but at least as much valid as yours.
As for Ysera, theoretically, she can still be more powerful than him. Feats and story back this up, despite his "ten thousand fold amplification"


Revolving the level, neither one has been given a level in World of Warcraft. Since Lich King is alive at the release of Cataclysm, neither one will be encountered until later.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Archimonde on Azeroth never fought an Aspect. So we wouldn't be able to compare from anything of the sort. It's an unknown how the power of a Kil'Jaeden empowerment differ from a Khaz'Goroth empowerment, but one thing is definate: Kil'Jaeden has a much more limited mind than anyone in the Pantheon.

When Lich King broke loose, Kil'Jaeden was more hurt pride-wise than considered him a threat. It's been proven over and over again that Kil'Jaedens greatest weakness is his pride. He didn't kill Ner'Zhul because he was ashamed over the fact that Ner'Zhul had escaped him for so long. He was also humiliated by the fact that Velen has evaded them for even longer.

He empowered Ner'Zhul as a punishment and not as a token of power. When Ner'Zhul then broke the link, Kil'Jaeden truth be told didn't hesitate to attain contacts within Azeroth in order to enter himself and deal with the problem. He was personally going for the Lich King. Kil'Jaeden has NEVER before personally gone for anyone.

That alone is reason enough to think that Kil'Jaeden was confident enough that Lich King, while more powerful than ever before, wasn't powerful enough to compare to Kil'Jaeden.

Theory, of course, but at least as much valid as yours.
As for Ysera, theoretically, she can still be more powerful than him. Feats and story back this up, despite his "ten thousand fold amplification"


Revolving the level, neither one has been given a level in World of Warcraft. Since Lich King is alive at the release of Cataclysm, neither one will be encountered until later.

Limited mind? is that really a fact? also didnt Archimonde tear apart an adult dragon with TK? is it factually stated how much bigger aspects are in comparison to adult dragons in lore? In warcraft, standing next to alex shes not as big and certainly not much bigger than Onxyia and other large boss dragons.

The legion certainly went through a fair amount to stop him from getting free, first they dont give him a body, then shove him into a block of ice (not just any ice, ice from the furthest reaches of the void), his lair is a savage and wild frozen land fairly remote compared to the rest of Azeroth and they left agents to make sure he would stay put. Then ofc theres the mental link that was supposed to stop LK betraying the legion. LK defeated all of these and they were certainly not happy, nor did they ever think it was possible, hell Kiljaeden even went to Illidan to directly destroy the frozen throne through the eye of Sarg, (a piece of sarg required is fairly impressive as well).

Why would you empower him as a punishment? its all part of their plan, the scourge was part of the plan of the legion after their failure with the orcs to take Azeroth..so he personally went in himself, never done this before and this makes the LK look weaker? heavens no, imo if he decides that the rest of Azeroth is not worthy of his presence and he can make do with lackeys yet he has to go in himself for the LK, damn he must be strong to be worthy of the atttension of someone so arrogant.

Hm, well when we know the level we can have a fairly valgue idea of which one is stronger than the other, since it is Blizzard who choose this information ofc, so they would decide who would be stronger by level at least.

EvilAngel
Originally posted by Burning thought
is it factually stated how much bigger aspects are in comparison to adult dragons in lore? In warcraft, standing next to alex shes not as big and certainly not much bigger than Onxyia and other large boss dragons.


No it isn't. You know my guild have been discussing this since our first member did wrathgate.

We think that's her controlling her size. since afk 2 warlocks, 6 helpers, and several trips back and forth, we've come to the conclusion she may be smaller than Nefarian. (Yes, we are just that sad ;p )

So, it's really impossible to say how big they are(potentially).


Though imo it may not be relevent to your point, since i would suppose only a magical resistance would help you from TK?

ArtificialGlory
Kil'jaeden was acting a bit out of character when he tried to enter Azeroth so recklessly.

Anyway, he wasn't going just for the Lich King, he wanted to destroy Azeroth.

Burning thought
Originally posted by EvilAngel
No it isn't. You know my guild have been discussing this since our first member did wrathgate.

We think that's her controlling her size. since afk 2 warlocks, 6 helpers, and several trips back and forth, we've come to the conclusion she may be smaller than Nefarian. (Yes, we are just that sad ;p )

So, it's really impossible to say how big they are(potentially).


Though imo it may not be relevent to your point, since i would suppose only a magical resistance would help you from TK?

I dont know, depends on the fiction, personally I am of the mind is that as TK is telekinetic force usually from mental projection so I dont think unless Warcraft actually directly outlines anything mental as magical then it should not protect them. I mean I would have thought an adult dragon (especially if it was blue, I am not sure what colour dragon it was) would have resistances to magic forces.

Although yes, I thought that was strange, them making Alex smaller than Onyxia or Netharian... "sigh", you would have thought blizzard would have made her the real size though wouldnt you, I cant see a reason for them to make her smaller than she really is at the time.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Kil'jaeden was acting a bit out of character when he tried to enter Azeroth so recklessly.

Anyway, he wasn't going just for the Lich King, he wanted to destroy Azeroth.

Why do you think AQ said he came on Azeroth for the LK? I cant remember the event myself but are you talking about a pre-WoW event or the sunwell?

Perhaps the LK was his main objective or something.

EvilAngel
Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont know, depends on the fiction, personally I am of the mind is that as TK is telekinetic force usually from mental projection so I dont think unless Warcraft actually directly outlines anything mental as magical then it should not protect them. I mean I would have thought an adult dragon (especially if it was blue, I am not sure what colour dragon it was) would have resistances to magic forces.

Although yes, I thought that was strange, them making Alex smaller than Onyxia or Netharian... "sigh", you would have thought blizzard would have made her the real size though wouldnt you, I cant see a reason for them to make her smaller than she really is at the time.


Well i only say that because, if he can crush an entire dragon with TK. If the target were only bigger, all he would have to do is aim for the neck. Correct?

I would probably think there would be something protecting the dragon aspects from being, well let's face it, pwned that simply.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by Burning thought
Limited mind? is that really a fact? also didnt Archimonde tear apart an adult dragon with TK? is it factually stated how much bigger aspects are in comparison to adult dragons in lore? In warcraft, standing next to alex shes not as big and certainly not much bigger than Onxyia and other large boss dragons.

The legion certainly went through a fair amount to stop him from getting free, first they dont give him a body, then shove him into a block of ice (not just any ice, ice from the furthest reaches of the void), his lair is a savage and wild frozen land fairly remote compared to the rest of Azeroth and they left agents to make sure he would stay put. Then ofc theres the mental link that was supposed to stop LK betraying the legion. LK defeated all of these and they were certainly not happy, nor did they ever think it was possible, hell Kiljaeden even went to Illidan to directly destroy the frozen throne through the eye of Sarg, (a piece of sarg required is fairly impressive as well).

Why would you empower him as a punishment? its all part of their plan, the scourge was part of the plan of the legion after their failure with the orcs to take Azeroth..so he personally went in himself, never done this before and this makes the LK look weaker? heavens no, imo if he decides that the rest of Azeroth is not worthy of his presence and he can make do with lackeys yet he has to go in himself for the LK, damn he must be strong to be worthy of the atttension of someone so arrogant.

Hm, well when we know the level we can have a fairly valgue idea of which one is stronger than the other, since it is Blizzard who choose this information ofc, so they would decide who would be stronger by level at least.

An aspect dwarves the size of our common adult dragons. Korialstrasz, who is abnormally large for an adult dragon, was slapped around silly by the sheer size of Deathwing when they fought. Deathwing was able to with his paw alone topple another adult dragon, and take a third out with a whip of his tail alone.
Neltharion in lore is compared to a mountain in terms of size, which while hyped, says a lot about how large he actually is.
How the dragons appear in World of Warcraft, you should know is not on an accurate scale. Almost nothing in Warcraft is of accurate scale.
Stormwind is barely even the size of a village in comparison to the magnificent city that it takes hours to walk through in lore.

Illidan didn't use the Eye of Sargeras to destroy the Frozen Throne and Lich King. He was going to destroy the entire Northrend. He wanted to destroy the entire continent, burrying the Lich King and all else there was too it. The fact that he uses the Eye of Sargeras says nothing really of the power of the Lich King, since simply killing Arthas would've been adequate to kill the Lich King. Illidan wanted to destroy the entire lands of Northrend. For THAT, he wanted the Eye of Sargeras.

And as I said, Lich King was sent to Azeroth to serve Kil'Jaeden as a PUNISHMENT. The Dreadlords were his wardens and the ice was his prison. The fact that Kil'Jaeden used the ice he did, was because common ice isn't quite as usable. Why would he take unnecessary risks by using regular ice when he could just as easily take special ice? Again, this doesn't prove anything other than the fact that Kil'Jaeden wanted Ner'Zhul to stay put. Many prisons has extra tough protection even though they don't really need it. His being extra tough is proof of nothing.

Have you read the books? Kil'Jaeden was furious on Ner'Zhul. He was so angered that he punished him by tearing his soul from his body and imprisoned it in a prison of ice. Because Ner'Zhul gave EVERYTHING to not be involved with Kil'Jaeden, Kil'Jaeden punished him by FORCING him to serve him.
It was a punishment, and that's a FACT. Kil'Jaeden could've used anyone to control the Scourge. In fact, they didn't even need the Lich King. Archimonde proved very able to do so himself, when he removed Lich King from power and claimed the Scourge as his own.
There's no debating it really. Kil'Jaeden was punishing Ner'Zhul. It's written black on white. He imagined that what punishment could be worse for someone that hated Kil'Jaeden as much as Ner'Zhul did, than force him to serve him for all eternity?

According to feats and story, Ysera is more powerful mentally. That's a fact until Blizzard decide to change it. For now, it's not a debate either. Anything Lich King as done, she has done better. So for as long as that remains fact, it can't be argued that Lich King is more powerful.
It can be theorized, but it can't be stated. While it's true that Lich King has not done much with his appearance in World of Warcraft, that can't be used to claim he is more powerful. That's fallacious.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Well i only say that because, if he can crush an entire dragon with TK. If the target were only bigger, all he would have to do is aim for the neck. Correct?

I would probably think there would be something protecting the dragon aspects from being, well let's face it, pwned that simply.

Telekinesis is magical, and Deathwing has magical resistance by both nature, magic prowess and his plated skin. Telekinesis will be utterly useless, not only because Deathwing is more durable than any other dragon that has ever lived, but he's probably the second largest that has ever lived and he has magic resistance.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Burning thought
Why do you think AQ said he came on Azeroth for the LK? I cant remember the event myself but are you talking about a pre-WoW event or the sunwell?

Perhaps the LK was his main objective or something.

LK was definitely in his sights, but I highly doubt he was the sole reason or even the main one.

I was talking about the Sunwell event. I can't remember him trying to enter Azeroth ever before that. He has talked to Illidan before on Kalimdor somewhere, but it looked like a shade or a ghost.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
LK was definitely in his sights, but I highly doubt he was the sole reason or even the main one.

I was talking about the Sunwell event. I can't remember him trying to enter Azeroth ever before that. He has talked to Illidan before on Kalimdor somewhere, but it looked like a shade or a ghost.

It was a shade, a mere phantom.

As for Kil'Jaeden coming to Azeroth, he of course wanted the power that was there, but Azeroth has also become something of a personal matter for him. Azeroth defeated both Sargeras and Archimonde and I imagine Kil'Jaeden wants to prove himself.

He is after all now self-proclaimed leader of the Burning Legion and he wants to show the universe that he can do all the things Sargeras failed to do. He wants to show everyone that he is better.
So Azeroth is something of a trophy of his. But the first thing he'd do if he comes to Azeroth, is go for the Lich King. After all, there's the pride matter.


"The expendible have perished... So be it! Now I shall succeed where Sargeras could not! I will bleed this wretched world and secure my place as the true master of the Burning Legion. The end has come! Let the unraveling of this world commence!"

EvilAngel
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Telekinesis is magical, and Deathwing has magical resistance by both nature, magic prowess and his plated skin. Telekinesis will be utterly useless, not only because Deathwing is more durable than any other dragon that has ever lived, but he's probably the second largest that has ever lived and he has magic resistance.

Galakrond eh?

hehe, you're such a warcraft buff ;p Geeeek! hehe, only kidding wink

What can i say? i know a bit, but all in all, i just think he looks cool =D

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Galakrond eh?

hehe, you're such a warcraft buff ;p Geeeek! hehe, only kidding wink

What can i say? i know a bit, but all in all, i just think he looks cool =D

Truth be told, I was thinking about Dargonax and not Galakrond stick out tongue Didn't really think about him. I guess that puts Deathwing on 3rd place smile

Well, I am a geek. Given how I don't play World of Warcraft, that makes me more-so one for finding out these things by other means! I just love the story behind Azeroth and Warcraft big grin

You seem like fun! MSN?

EvilAngel
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Truth be told, I was thinking about Dargonax and not Galakrond stick out tongue Didn't really think about him. I guess that puts Deathwing on 3rd place smile

Well, I am a geek. Given how I don't play World of Warcraft, that makes me more-so one for finding out these things by other means! I just love the story behind Azeroth and Warcraft big grin

You seem like fun! MSN?

Ahh, i knew that! i was just testing you!

Hahah, well in a way i'm worse, i mean, i know less but i want to know more, i just am either too lazy or can't find the things to know more ;p I'm a wannabe geek ;p

So do you ;p Sure, i'll log on in a bit, i believe i already have you added ;p But unfortunately i require a trip to the store. We have no food and my hunger is finally making demands =(

Q'Anilia
Really, that dragon had completely slipped my mind. When I think sheer size, I by default think Dargonax stick out tongue

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I have you added as well since before.

EvilAngel
Well i only really know who he is because of WoW ;p

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Well i only really know who he is because of WoW ;p

His skeleton stretches pretty much across half the zone. The thing must have been huge.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Archimonde proved very able to do so himself, when he removed Lich King from power and claimed the Scourge as his own.

IIRC Archimonde didn't himself directly take command but instead gave the command to the dreadlords

"Since the Lich King is of no further use to me you dreadlords will now command the scourge"

which actually more impressive from my point of view.

EvilAngel
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
His skeleton stretches pretty much across half the zone. The thing must have been huge.

And that's only what they have unearther so far ;p

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by EvilAngel
And that's only what they have unearther so far ;p

Yea, and that's just the skeleton. He would be even more larger and impressive with flesh on and all that.

EDIT: It's barely 1/3 of the spine that's actually unearthed. Also his skull seems to be somewhat still partially sunken into the ground.

Q'Anilia
Let's remember though that WoW scale isn't necessarily accurate.

menokokoro
deathwing is tens of thousands of years old so has much more experience than the lich king, he created a weapon far greater than anything the lich king could ever do (the dragon/demon soul) that single handedly destroyed an army of the burning leagon and a good portion of the night elf army as well in a single blast.

his power and knowledge is vastly greater than ner'zuls so he would win

Q'Anilia
Multiply ten thousand with ten and you'll be closer.
Ner'Zhul is gone, though. So simply put, he has Arthas intelligence to compete against here.

menokokoro
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Multiply ten thousand with ten and you'll be closer.
Ner'Zhul is gone, though. So simply put, he has Arthas intelligence to compete against here. ??? so you think that arthas overpowered ner'zhuls mind? no they are one, ner'zhul wanted arthas to be there from the start so he could have a vesal, if anything its arthas thats gone.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by menokokoro
??? so you think that arthas overpowered ner'zhuls mind? no they are one, ner'zhul wanted arthas to be there from the start so he could have a vesal, if anything its arthas thats gone.

I don't think.

You haven't read the book "Arthas", have you? Ner'Zhul doesn't exist anymore. If he does, it's not in Arthas body. Ner'Zhul is no longer the Lich King. This however, is a fact only known to Arthas himself (Possibly Sylvanas, Deathwing and Aegwynn as well).

Ner'Zhul is gone. Arthas is in charge. There's no debating it. It exist black on white, and I'll even quote it. This is the end of the book, though, so it's a spoiler:
"We are one, Arthas. Together, we are the Lich King. No more Ner'zhul, no more Arthas--only this one glorious being. With my knowledge, we can--"
His eyes bulged as the sword impaled him.
Arthas tepped forward, plunging the glittering, hungering Frostmourne ever deeper into the dream-being that had once been Ner'Zhul, then the LIch King, and was soon to be nothing, nothing at all. He slipped his other arm around the body, pressing his lips so close to the green ear that the gesture was almost intimate, as intimate as the act of taking a life always was and always would be.
"No," A rthas whispered. "No we. No one tells me what to do. I've got everything I need from you--now the power is mine and mine alone. Now there is only I. I am the Lich King. And I am ready"
The orc Shuddered in his arms, stunned by the betrayal, and vanished.

Burning thought
Hm confusing, was it not Nerzhuel who was the lich king all this time, who was the grand vast conciousness? how can you just steal the expanded conciousness and everything else? unless it was just nerzhuels spirit that was destroyed yet all the gifts Kiljaeden gave was still given to Arthas.

Q'Anilia
This is my interpretation:
When you first meet the Lich King in Northrend in World of Warcraft, he says "I was once a shaman too". The quoted event in the book takes place before this encounter, so here's my guess-

When Arthas smited Ner'Zhul, he simply killed a split personality. The book states how Ner'Zhul was first Ner'Zhul, then the Lich King. This is just how Arthas was first Arthas and then the Lich King.
When then Ner'Zhul and Arthas joined together and became one (The Lich King), they attained eachothers memories. This is reason enough for Arthas to claim that he was a shaman too, since it's part of his memories and isn't directly false given how the Lich King once was a shaman.

The Lich King is the descendant of Arthas and Ner'Zhul. He's the combined being of the two, all until Arthas used the Frostmourne and destroyed Ner'Zhuls spirit.

At which point, Ner'Zhul vanishes. Arthas attain control and that's that. Two minds aren't required to control one body. Arthas doesn't need Ner'Zhul, although it was rather stupid to smite him, given how Ner'Zhul was the smart one of the two.
If Arthas really wanted power, he'd have kept Ner'Zhul around because Ner'Zhul has a much more potent mind.


Bottomline: Ner'Zhul is no more. Arthas is selfish. Arthas is the Lich King. Ner'Zhul isn't.
Ner'Zhul isn't necessarily dead though, only gone. I imagine he'll make a return which will contribute in the defeat of the Lich King.

Burning thought
But you claim that you think they attained eachothers memories so technically Arthas is just as intelligent and vast mentally as Nerzhuel ever was...

Q'Anilia
Not really. Memories does not equal intelligence. He'll have the experience of Ner'Zhul, but Ner'Zhul is still the smarter of the two.

ArtificialGlory
Ironic. Arthas finally got his vengeance.

Rapidash
Arthas really blew it that time. Ner'Zhul was the mind and Arthas the body. He should've settled with that if he wanted power. Ner'Zhul was the one whos mind expanded ten thousand fold.

Deathwing wins either way. The Lich King is a glas canon against Deathwing.

menokokoro
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I don't think.

You haven't read the book "Arthas", have you? Ner'Zhul doesn't exist anymore. If he does, it's not in Arthas body. Ner'Zhul is no longer the Lich King. This however, is a fact only known to Arthas himself (Possibly Sylvanas, Deathwing and Aegwynn as well).

Ner'Zhul is gone. Arthas is in charge. There's no debating it. It exist black on white, and I'll even quote it. This is the end of the book, though, so it's a spoiler:
"We are one, Arthas. Together, we are the Lich King. No more Ner'zhul, no more Arthas--only this one glorious being. With my knowledge, we can--"
His eyes bulged as the sword impaled him.
Arthas tepped forward, plunging the glittering, hungering Frostmourne ever deeper into the dream-being that had once been Ner'Zhul, then the LIch King, and was soon to be nothing, nothing at all. He slipped his other arm around the body, pressing his lips so close to the green ear that the gesture was almost intimate, as intimate as the act of taking a life always was and always would be.
"No," A rthas whispered. "No we. No one tells me what to do. I've got everything I need from you--now the power is mine and mine alone. Now there is only I. I am the Lich King. And I am ready"
The orc Shuddered in his arms, stunned by the betrayal, and vanished. WOW holy crap, i had no idea. THANK YOU so much for that arthas is way more of a bad ass than i thought lol

menokokoro
Originally posted by Rapidash
Arthas really blew it that time. Ner'Zhul was the mind and Arthas the body. He should've settled with that if he wanted power. Ner'Zhul was the one whos mind expanded ten thousand fold.
yes that is true is is stupid for this, however it really fits his character well, so prideful that the moment someone tells he what to do he turns on them

Q'Anilia
Arthas is famous for his "act first, ask questions later" policy stick out tongue

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