Stardust vs. Iceman

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Hitman911
Iceman continuses his quest against the Heralds. He has already Defeated/Stalemated Firelord in my other thread. How does he fair against Stardust??

Survivor19
Go Bobby!!!

galactusischere
he loses to stardust

Warlord
stardust

Peterlane
Bobby rapes

Peterlane
Nice bait thread by the way,...I see you are butt-hurt

Konton
Stardust easy.

Bouboumaster
Kril would win, and Stardust win faster

jrodslam
Dont know much about Stardust. Anyone care to explain his means of victory?

leonidas
twin singularities that pull bobby and his consciousness in seperate directions forever preventing it from being able to reconstitute? shrug

Creshosk
Originally posted by leonidas
twin singularities that pull bobby and his consciousness in seperate directions forever preventing it from being able to reconstitute? shrug Do singularities have that effect on a "consciousness"?

leonidas
beats me . . . depends on how you define consciousness i'd guess. another question would be--could bobby's consciousness survive a singularity?

Creshosk
Originally posted by leonidas
beats me . . . depends on how you define consciousness i'd guess. another question would be--could bobby's consciousness survive a singularity? I'd need to see the effect of gravity on a psionic entity.

Though there is that one encounter with Prosh.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by leonidas
twin singularities that pull bobby and his consciousness in seperate directions forever preventing it from being able to reconstitute? shrug

Here is the closest thing to a "singularity" that I can think of in Bobby's appearances.
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1512/xmenforever6p28.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6860/xmenforever6p29.jpg
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5628/xmenforever6p30.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6254/xmenforever6p31.jpg

The main question is would a physical pull work on a psychic entity? Somehow I doubt it

Looking up Stardust's bio: Stardust is an Ethereal, a race of beings of pure energy and being imbued with the Power Cosmic makes Stardust immortal, allowing him to reconstitute himself if "destroyed", such as during the Annihilation Wave or having its physical structure dispersed.

Just pointing out that Iceman has frozen energy before:

Celestial Ship/Programming
Bobby literally froze the programming that was infecting Prosh. The signal was frozen. He even went on to unfreeze portions of the ship without allowing the signal to go through to other areas. According to Creshosk:

" you'd have to be freezing electricity or electromagnetic data itself... so either electrons or even smaller than that photons. At which point itd be possible for you to freeze anything in the electromagnetic radiation spectrum, radio waves, light... uv or x-rays, gamma rays."

For context, Prosh has been trying to fight his programming, but is no longer able to do so:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3083/xmenforever5p17.jpg

The feat itself:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4113/xmenforever5p19.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9195/xmenforever5p20.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6632/xmenforever5p21.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1770/xmenforever5p227kd.jpg

The effect on Prosh:
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3760/xmenforever6p13.jpg

Stranger
Now, Stranger is a cosmic threat. On the level of power that holds being like the Silver Surfer and above. He has a physical body because he chooses to do so, not because he really needs one. He can control molecules like I control legos.

Even Jean says they are not powerful enough to defeat him:

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3340/xmenforever6p02and03.jpg

And yet, for all his power, Iceman still manages to freeze him. And not only him, which should be impressive enough, but his energy beams. They became pure ice. Hydrogen and Oxygen contained as energy? I doubt it. He froze something that was not water based.

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9026/xmenforever6p26.jpg

And he stays with the Celestial ships, keeping the Stranger immobilized while the ship shrank into itself and "teleported" to another section of the universe (Iceman made it out by turning into water vapor and reforming right before the ship totally collapsed).

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/1088/xmenforever6p29ew7.jpg

Freezing Psi Energy
In the first, Iceman freezes (and you can see the shape of the frozen monster looking thingy) Psi Energy:
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/494/xmen199003.jpg

In another, he freezes the Vanisher mid teleport. I dont know how he teleports, but he looks half there, and energy-like. If someone can come up with a good reason, let me know.
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/8627/17rj1.jpg
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/1903/18lm4.jpg


This is just a sample of a longer post I had made in the Firelord thread.
Here it is if you want to view it.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=509737&pagenumber=12

*Notice I never said any conclusion about the match. I've heard good things about Stardust, who has more versitility than Firelord. I just dont know enough about him to say anything conclusive.

juggernaut74
I gotta go with the herald.

leonidas
i knew he could freeze energy. could he freeze SD before SD formed the singularity (which he has done on panel)? i'd doubt it, personally.

not sure any of those scans really answer the question. didn't xorn kill black tom with a black hole? wasn't tom able to send out his consciousness into plants or something when he died? i'm reaching for any examples at all, admittedly because i can't think of any examples that would help answer the question. sad

i'd think that bobby's consciousness would be trapped and likely destroyed by the singularity. he would need to actually escape it's pull, and i don't think that would be possible for him. someone with more psi-powers, maybe, but since bobby's powers seem more like tranference than actual psi-power (ala marvel's usual psi's) i wouldn't think something like that would be within the scope of his power. but, i don't have examples so it's just a gut feeling. erm

Creshosk
Originally posted by leonidas
i knew he could freeze energy. could he freeze SD before SD formed the singularity (which he has done on panel)? i'd doubt it, personally.

not sure any of those scans really answer the question. didn't xorn kill black tom with a black hole? wasn't tom able to send out his consciousness into plants or something when he died? i'm reaching for any examples at all, admittedly because i can't think of any examples that would help answer the question. sad

i'd think that bobby's consciousness would be trapped and likely destroyed by the singularity. he would need to actually escape it's pull, and i don't think that would be possible for him. someone with more psi-powers, maybe, but since bobby's powers seem more like tranference than actual psi-power (ala marvel's usual psi's) i wouldn't think something like that would be within the scope of his power. but, i don't have examples so it's just a gut feeling. erm Black Tom Cassidy's not dead. Though at the time he wasn't quite the same thing as bobby. Where' bobby's shell has been completely destroyed, during the fight with xorn Black Tom's wasn't. So they had to completely destroy his shell to get rid of him. So rather than being a psionic entity in a shell, like Booby, he was more of a monstrous regenerating plant.

Though I do have another feat of another omega level dealing with a black hole. whistle

Galan007
stardust.

leonidas
Originally posted by Creshosk
Black Tom Cassidy's not dead. Though at the time he wasn't quite the same thing as bobby. Where' bobby's shell has been completely destroyed, during the fight with xorn Black Tom's wasn't. So they had to completely destroy his shell to get rid of him. So rather than being a psionic entity in a shell, like Booby, he was more of a monstrous regenerating plant.

Though I do have another feat of another omega level dealing with a black hole. whistle

does it involve rachel . . .? shifty

dmills
Well I think Blair kinda answered his own inquiry. If psionic energy can be frozen, as Bobby has done before, then Bobby, being a psionic being, should be affected by similar potent forces.

Kris Blaze
What good will freezing Stardust do? no expression

leonidas
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
What good will freezing Stardust do? no expression

well, it was very effective against stranger and stranger>SD . . . if SD can't move, well . . . no expression

Bouboumaster
Stadust survive in the cold space without problem. And he's of pure energy.

Merlyn
Originally posted by leonidas
well, it was very effective against stranger and stranger>SD . . . if SD can't move, well . . . no expression I do not see how that can be viewed as anything but PIS of the highest order. Do you honestly think it makes any sort of sense that Bobby would be able to defeat a being capable of building/breaking worlds (namely Battleworld)... a being with power greater then that of a Watcher.... A being who calls the absolute zero temperature of space his home.... By simply freezing his optical blasts and eyes? Give me a break.

Iceman also "beat" Oblivion by throwing snowballs at him. Should we use that as formal evidence too? Lol.


Stardust takes this. I don't see it as much of a battle either.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by leonidas
well, it was very effective against stranger and stranger>SD . . . if SD can't move, well . . . no expression

I'm wondering how it can be effective against anyone with the power cosmic. Stardust's skin obviously burned BRB, who can survive practically any kind of heat. Releasing energy from all around his body can't be that hard. Don't see what the stranger matters either, he did shit. He was physically harmed by Juggernaut, frozen by Iceman and so on.

It's a freezing attack, it's ice. The idea that freezing a herald would work as even a temporary solution is just....yeah.

Creshosk
Originally posted by leonidas
does it involve rachel . . .? shifty Nope. Their costume is a bit more white.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I'm wondering how it can be effective against anyone with the power cosmic. Stardust's skin obviously burned BRB, who can survive practically any kind of heat. Releasing energy from all around his body can't be that hard. Don't see what the stranger matters either, he did shit. He was physically harmed by Juggernaut, frozen by Iceman and so on.

It's a freezing attack, it's ice. The idea that freezing a herald would work as even a temporary solution is just....yeah. facepalm

Blair Wind
Originally posted by dmills
Well I think Blair kinda answered his own inquiry. If psionic energy can be frozen, as Bobby has done before, then Bobby, being a psionic being, should be affected by similar potent forces.

That Psi energy had a physical manifestation that was shown in the physical world. Bobby does not, he just resides in ice. There are differences there.

Originally posted by Merlyn
A being who calls the absolute zero temperature of space his home....

Space is not absolute zero.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It's a freezing attack, it's ice. The idea that freezing a herald would work as even a temporary solution is just....yeah.

Its not JUST ice.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Merlyn
I do not see how that can be viewed as anything but PIS of the highest order. Do you honestly think it makes any sort of sense that Bobby would be able to defeat a being capable of building/breaking worlds (namely Battleworld)... a being with power greater then that of a Watcher.... A being who calls the absolute zero temperature of space his home.... By simply freezing his optical blasts and eyes? Give me a break.

Iceman also "beat" Oblivion by throwing snowballs at him. Should we use that as formal evidence too? Lol.


Stardust takes this. I don't see it as much of a battle either. Why would it be pis?

And Space is not absolute Zero, its three degrees above absolute zero.

Oh, let me guess. its pis because bobby's a filthy mutie...

leonidas
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I'm wondering how it can be effective against anyone with the power cosmic. Stardust's skin obviously burned BRB, who can survive practically any kind of heat. Releasing energy from all around his body can't be that hard. Don't see what the stranger matters either, he did shit. He was physically harmed by Juggernaut, frozen by Iceman and so on.

It's a freezing attack, it's ice. The idea that freezing a herald would work as even a temporary solution is just....yeah.

bobby doesn't just 'freeze'. he essentially drains/absorbs thermal energy, which at its base is simply a measure of kinetic energy. it's very much akin to what flash does. so, SD can be frozen by bobby. i don't think he can do it fast enough, and if he did, it would come down bobby's ability to keep him frozen, vs SD's own ability to control his energy form.

as i said, i'm not saying bobby would win--in fact i said the opposite was most likley. just saying, to say bobby simply 'freezes' something is a bit of an oversimplification of his powers.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Creshosk
facepalm

facepalmfacepalm

Originally posted by leonidas
bobby doesn't just 'freeze'. he essentially drains/absorbs thermal energy, which at its base is simply a measure of kinetic energy. it's very much akin to what flash does. so, SD can be frozen by bobby. i don't think he can do it fast enough, and if he did, it would come down bobby's ability to keep him frozen, vs SD's own ability to control his energy form.

as i said, i'm not saying bobby would win--in fact i said the opposite was most likley. just saying, to say bobby simply 'freezes' something is a bit of an oversimplification of his powers.

Not really. The result is that they get frozen. Call it what you want, freezing or "draining stardust's thermal energy" won't do anything worthwhile. It'll buy Bobby a moment's respite at best. Now I'm betting some joke in here will get really wound up about Iceman. Claim that I oversimplify his powers, try to save his honour, prove that Iceman is the shit because he freeze people and reform.

But in the end it doesn't matter. He's fighting an energy being who can reform at will, wields a cosmic force that allows him to do -anything- and takes apart planets, etc, etc.

leonidas
Originally posted by Merlyn
I do not see how that can be viewed as anything but PIS of the highest order. Do you honestly think it makes any sort of sense that Bobby would be able to defeat a being capable of building/breaking worlds (namely Battleworld)... a being with power greater then that of a Watcher.... A being who calls the absolute zero temperature of space his home.... By simply freezing his optical blasts and eyes? Give me a break.

Iceman also "beat" Oblivion by throwing snowballs at him. Should we use that as formal evidence too? Lol.


Stardust takes this. I don't see it as much of a battle either.

space is not absolute zero. bobby does more than make things cold. stranger has been stalemated by quasar. stranger is still composed of atoms which possess kinetic energy. remove said energy and he can be frozen. obviously. should stranger be powerful enough to override bobby's control. probably, but it doesn't make the fact that the attack worked for a short time pis.

gawd i hate that term . . . forum needs a more stringent definition because anytime someone doesn't like something it's the first thing they cry . . .

leonidas
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
facepalmfacepalm



Not really. The result is that they get frozen. Call it what you want, freezing or "draining stardust's thermal energy" won't do anything worthwhile. It'll buy Bobby a moment's respite at best. Now I'm betting some joke in here will get really wound up about Iceman. Claim that I oversimplify his powers, try to save his honour, prove that Iceman is the shit because he freeze people and reform.

But in the end it doesn't matter. He's fighting an energy being who can reform at will, wields a cosmic force that allows him to do -anything- and takes apart planets, etc, etc.

do you think flash could steal his speed?

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by leonidas
do you think flash could steal his speed?

No.

Creshosk
Originally posted by leonidas
space is not absolute zero. bobby does more than make things cold. stranger has been stalemated by quasar. stranger is still composed of atoms which possess kinetic energy. remove said energy and he can be frozen. obviously. should stranger be powerful enough to override bobby's control. probably, but it doesn't make the fact that the attack worked for a short time pis.

gawd i hate that term . . . forum needs a more stringent definition because anytime someone doesn't like something it's the first thing they cry . . . And usually for not very good reasons.

leonidas
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
No.

because you think SD's control over his own energy form would prevent it?

Creshosk
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
facepalmfacepalm Okay genius, I facepalmed at your circular reasoning fallacy.

"Bobby freezing the stranger isn't that impressive, because he's a wuss, because Bobby froze him."

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by leonidas
because you think SD's control over his own energy form would prevent it?

Partially.

I can't imagine Wally's speedtrick working on anyone powered by the power cosmic. Especially not Stardust.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Okay genius, I facepalmed at your circular reasoning fallacy.

"Bobby freezing the stranger isn't that impressive, because he's a wuss, because Bobby froze him."

I know, you like to get hung up on things like that when you have no arguments or nothing to do in a thread but try and start something.

leonidas
Originally posted by Creshosk
And usually for not very good reasons.

zactly.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I know, you like to get hung up on things like that when you have no arguments or nothing to do in a thread but try and start something. That doesn't change that your argument is invalid due to it being circular reasoning.

I noticed you didn't try to refute that.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Creshosk
That doesn't change that your argument is invalid due to it being circular reasoning.

I noticed you didn't try to refute that.

Iceman freezing the Strange wasn't impressive because the Stranger was harmed by Juggernaut and unable to defeat the team.

There.

Now I believe there's a fanfic with Jubilee in it waiting for you, begone.

Merlyn
Originally posted by Creshosk
Why would it be pis?

And Space is not absolute Zero, its three degrees above absolute zero.

Oh, let me guess. its pis because bobby's a filthy mutie... Umm, no. It's PIS because..

-Stranger has shrugged off attacks, and owned, the likes of Overmind, Silver Surfer, Super Skrull, Quasar, etc.
-He has created and destroyed worlds (one of which was Battleworld.)
-His power is > a Watcher.
-etc etc.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Merlyn
Umm, no. It's PIS because..

-Stranger has shrugged off attacks, and owned, the likes of Overmind, Silver Surfer, Super Skrull, Quasar, etc.
-He has created and destroyed worlds (one of which was Battleworld.)
-His power is > a Watcher.
-etc etc. And the creation of a celestial isn't allowed to do such a thing?

Creshosk
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Iceman freezing the Strange wasn't impressive because the Stranger was harmed by Juggernaut and unable to defeat the team.

There.

Now I believe there's a fanfic with Jubilee in it waiting for you, begone. Ooh, touchy.. I take it you're afraid to debate with me?


You know, being hurt by the "herald" of Cytorak isn't anything to be ashamed of.

leonidas
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Partially.

I can't imagine Wally's speedtrick working on anyone powered by the power cosmic. Especially not Stardust.

i asked because i said basically the same thing in a ss vs wally debate (though there are differences). it essentially comes down to a battle for control over the kinetic energy of the victim. if you think SD is capable of overriding bobby's control, then bobby really can't win at all. if not, bobby has a chance. i think it would work for a short time (ie--bobby could briefly freeze sd) but in SD's case his powers are continually replenished so bobby would have to continually drain them. i don't think he'd be able to do that and i think SD would be able to override bobby's control eventually.

as for killing bobby, again, that's a trickier issue. he'd need to trap bobby's consciousness somehow. just not exactly sure how . . .

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Creshosk
Ooh, touchy.. I take it you're afraid to debate with me?


You know, being hurt by the "herald" of Cytorak isn't anything to be ashamed of.
Not that he was actually hurt by him. He was pushed back, iirc

Merlyn
Originally posted by Creshosk
And the creation of a celestial isn't allowed to do such a thing? I've never seen a character wanked so much.

Anywayz, considering Stranger has shrugged off attacks from those I listed... And then went on to effortlessly own them... Bobby being able to simply freeze his attacks ftw!!11@ doesn't strike me as something that should be taken (by the non-fanboy-type) as anything but PIS. Being "the creation of a Celestial" can only take you so far. laughing out loud

Creshosk
Originally posted by leonidas
i asked because i said basically the same thing in a ss vs wally debate (though there are differences). it essentially comes down to a battle for control over the kinetic energy of the victim. if you think SD is capable of overriding bobby's control, then bobby really can't win at all. if not, bobby has a chance. i think it would work for a short time (ie--bobby could briefly freeze sd) but in SD's case his powers are continually replenished so bobby would have to continually drain them. i don't think he'd be able to do that and i think SD would be able to override bobby's control eventually.

as for killing bobby, again, that's a trickier issue. he'd need to trap bobby's consciousness somehow. just not exactly sure how . . . How long do you think the incapacitation would last? Long enough to count as a win or not? Because people argue that koing wolverine even for a little bit still counts as a win against wolverine even if wolverine was only down for a few panels, that count for less than 10 seconds.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Merlyn
I've never seen a character wanked so much.

Anywayz, considering Stranger has shrugged off attacks from those I listed... And then went on to effortlessly own them... Bobby being able to simply freeze his attacks ftw!!11@ doesn't strike me as something that should be taken (by the non-fanboy-type) as anything but PIS. Being "the creation of a Celestial" can only take you so far. laughing out loud Well I still ask, why do you think he should not be able to do such a thing? At what point is an omega level mutant allowed to start hanging with the higher level tiers?

leonidas
Originally posted by Creshosk
Because people argue that koing wolverine even for a little bit still counts as a win against wolverine even if wolverine was only down for a few panels, that count for less than 10 seconds.

ohhh no . . . don't drag me into that mess . . . big grin

and i'd think it probably wouldn't last very long. is there a specific time limit the forum uses to constitute a win?

leonidas
and as regards the stranger--how long was he frozen?

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by leonidas
i asked because i said basically the same thing in a ss vs wally debate (though there are differences). it essentially comes down to a battle for control over the kinetic energy of the victim. if you think SD is capable of overriding bobby's control, then bobby really can't win at all. if not, bobby has a chance. i think it would work for a short time (ie--bobby could briefly freeze sd) but in SD's case his powers are continually replenished so bobby would have to continually drain them. i don't think he'd be able to do that and i think SD would be able to override bobby's control eventually.

as for killing bobby, again, that's a trickier issue. he'd need to trap bobby's consciousness somehow. just not exactly sure how . . .

I don't usually assume that somebody's able to override someone else's control over a particular type of energy unless there's a difference in their power level. That's why I usually scoff at those who claim that a Green Lantern can control the Power Cosmic or wise versa. Even if this was the case, it would just be like a loop. On to the point. Stardust could trap Bobby's consciousness in his halberd probably. Kill it with telepathic attacks, telepathy's gotta be pretty basic for heralds, especially an ethereal like him.

So yeah, verdict is. Regardless of whether or not Bobby can freeze Stardust, he would eventually get taken apart and have nothing to reform from. If that's not a victory, there'd be something Stardust could do.

Creshosk
Originally posted by leonidas
ohhh no . . . don't drag me into that mess . . . big grin

and i'd think it probably wouldn't last very long. is there a specific time limit the forum uses to constitute a win? Nope. which is what causes the problems with Wolverine. And I was just using it as an example.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I don't usually assume that somebody's able to override someone else's control over a particular type of energy unless there's a difference in their power level. That's why I usually scoff at those who claim that a Green Lantern can control the Power Cosmic or wise versa. Even if this was the case, it would just be like a loop. On to the point. Stardust could trap Bobby's consciousness in his halberd probably. Kill it with telepathic attacks, telepathy's gotta be pretty basic for heralds, especially an ethereal like him.

So yeah, verdict is. Regardless of whether or not Bobby can freeze Stardust, he would eventually get taken apart and have nothing to reform from. If that's not a victory, there'd be something Stardust could do. Has Stardust used telepathic attacks? because if what you mentioned with the halberd is true SD could more than likely win the majority if not the totality.

But if you're just speculating... then we're basically back to square one.

leonidas
Originally posted by Creshosk
Nope. which is what causes the problems with Wolverine. And I was just using it as an example.

really? i thought someone once quoted me a time limit. hrm. then i don't know. my thought would be a few seconds, which likely wouldn't constitute a win--at least imo.

kris raises a good point, though i'm not sure of its validity because SD has never been seen using tp to my knowledge, but COULD a high level tp destroy bobby's consciousness? he must have showings vs psi's.

and kris--i assume you're thinking SD could pull a stunt with his halberd similar to what ss did to legacy? maybe. tought to say for sure. SD showed some great versatility with the PC, but that stunt ss pulled was pretty exotic . . . possible? sure. just not sure how likely . . .

Merlyn
Originally posted by Creshosk
Well I still ask, why do you think he should not be able to do such a thing? At what point is an omega level mutant allowed to start hanging with the higher level tiers? When their standard showings are indicative of such.

But when you consider Stranger's history of slapping away many of Marvel's elite, teh freeze maneveur is just plain ridiculous.


Is it also your opinion that Iceman beating Oblivion with similiar means, isn't PIS either? srsly

leonidas
Originally posted by leonidas
and as regards the stranger--how long was he frozen?

confused

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by leonidas
and kris--i assume you're thinking SD could pull a stunt with his halberd similar to what ss did to legacy? maybe. tought to say for sure. SD showed some great versatility with the PC, but that stunt ss pulled was pretty exotic . . . possible? sure. just not sure how likely . . .

Stardust can just do what he did to the remains of his race. There's also no reason why telepathy would not finish off Iceman. It's not like being able to reform somehow makes him more resistant to telepathy. All heralds have cosmic awareness at least, so Stardust could at least resort to that.

Originally posted by leonidas
confused

Like a couple of seconds?

Creshosk
Originally posted by leonidas
really? i thought someone once quoted me a time limit. hrm. then i don't know. my thought would be a few seconds, which likely wouldn't constitute a win--at least imo.

kris raises a good point, though i'm not sure of its validity because SD has never been seen using tp to my knowledge, but COULD a high level tp destroy bobby's consciousness? he must have showings vs psi's.

and kris--i assume you're thinking SD could pull a stunt with his halberd similar to what ss did to legacy? maybe. tought to say for sure. SD showed some great versatility with the PC, but that stunt ss pulled was pretty exotic . . . possible? sure. just not sure how likely . . . I wouldn't count what one herald does as evidence for another herald. Since not all the heralds are created equal. So I'd like to see if SD has any TP feats.

Originally posted by Merlyn
When their standard showings are indicative of such.

But when you consider Stranger's history of slapping away many of Marvel's elite, teh freeze maneveur is just plain ridiculous.


Is it also your opinion that Iceman beating Oblivion with similiar means, isn't PIS either? srsly I'm not familiar with the incident.

leonidas
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Stardust can just do what he did to the remains of his race. There's also no reason why telepathy would not finish off Iceman. It's not like being able to reform somehow makes him more resistant to telepathy. All heralds have cosmic awareness at least, so Stardust could at least resort to that.

you're talking about he absorbed their essences into himself? could happen, but he'd then have to be able to contain bobby's consciousness. he MIGHT be able to, but i'd think that would be a tiresome tactic. he'd constantly have to be on guard and fighting bobby's consciousness which would always try and escape. tp is a solid option if available. otherwise, he still needs to trap bobby's consciousness somehow. the singularity could still do it.





that's what i thought--so that's hardly 'bobby defeatzz stranger!!1!' stranger could easily have been caught by surprise by the extent of bobby's powers. doesn't need to be pis . . .

oh, and i agree cresh--hard to say something without at least SOME proof. and i don't know the oblivion feat either. confused

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by leonidas
you're talking about he absorbed their essences into himself? could happen, but he'd then have to be able to contain bobby's consciousness. he MIGHT be able to, but i'd think that would be a tiresome tactic. he'd constantly have to be on guard and fighting bobby's consciousness which would always try and escape. tp is a solid option if available. otherwise, he still needs to trap bobby's consciousness somehow. the singularity could still do it.

He absorbed 34 beings into his halberd. He was planning on rebuilding their world somewhere else or something, but decided to feed them to Galactus in the end. Not sure where you're getting this "absorbing into himself from" big grin

Originally posted by leonidas
that's what i thought--so that's hardly 'bobby defeatzz stranger!!1!' stranger could easily have been caught by surprise by the extent of bobby's powers. doesn't need to be pis . . .

When I call it PIS, I mainly refer to the entire fight, not just one particular part. Stranger was doing worse than the Galactus who was taken out by Guardian.

Creshosk
Could the sigularity still do it? Because like I said, Black Tom Cassidy wasn't exactly a psionic entity, he was still part of the plant, which he kept hiding parts of himself underground.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
He absorbed 34 beings into his halberd. He was planning on rebuilding their world somewhere else or something, but decided to feed them to Galactus in the end. Not sure where you're getting this "absorbing into himself from" big grin/b] That I could see as a win for SD...

I think SD wins this one.

leonidas
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
He absorbed 34 beings into his halberd. He was planning on rebuilding their world somewhere else or something, but decided to feed them to Galactus in the end. Not sure where you're getting this "absorbing into himself from" big grin

oohhhhhh . . . my bad. not sure what i thinking of either. embarrasment

actually, i think that is quite a definitive feat. he likely could do that to bobby then and as cresh said, probably sweep this handily.



laughing out loud

fair enough. stranger HAS has some inconsistent showings in his day, but, meh.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by leonidas
oohhhhhh . . . my bad. not sure what i thinking of either. embarrasment

actually, i think that is quite a definitive feat. he likely could do that to bobby then and as cresh said, probably sweep this handily.

I'm not sure if you're trying to consider Blair's feelings, but there's no way that Stardust could not take this 10/10. There just isn't any feasible way Iceman could threaten Stardust smile

leonidas
Originally posted by Creshosk
That I could see as a win for SD...

I think SD wins this one.

wow, would you look at that. some civil discussion, coupled with some examples and some new knowledge about a character, and a well-backed and supported stance leads to concessions and an accepted point.

who'd have thought it! laughing out loud

well done kris! (and you really weren't too crotchety at all. careful--you'll ruin your rep around here . . .) big grin

leonidas
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I'm not sure if you're trying to consider Blair's feelings,

laughing

somewhere bw is laughing as hard as i am . . . big grin



i agree. wink

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by leonidas
laughing

somewhere bw is laughing as hard as i am . . . big grin

i agree. wink

Yes, let us all embrace smile

leonidas
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yes, let us all embrace smile

and you called me a homo. no expression

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by leonidas
and you called me a homo. no expression

That's called Market research.

My ass is merchandise.

leonidas
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
That's called Market research.

My ass is merchandise.

no expression














































laughing

Kris Blaze
I can tell that you're filled with burning mutual respect.

But I have an outfit that's going to turn that respect into something a bit more fun.

kgkg
Stardust.

leonidas
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I can tell that you're filled with burning mutual respect.

But I have an outfit that's going to turn that respect into something a bit more fun.

you just had to carry it that one extra step, eh? sicko. no expression

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by leonidas
you just had to carry it that one extra step, eh? sicko. no expression

You know it.

Creshosk

Mindset
Bobby.

I'll explain how on a later date.

Creshosk

psycho gundam
it's going to take a while for mindset to re-read the entirety of blair's "iceman explanation"vpost, don't hold your breath.

Mindset
Good one, buddy.

You really stuck it to me.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Mindset
Good one, buddy.

You really stuck it to me. From what I gather it's Iceman "sticking it" to Kris.

Konton
Originally posted by psycho gundam
it's going to take a while for mindset to re-read the entirety of blair's "iceman explanation"vpost, don't hold your breath.

laughing

Blair Wind
Originally posted by leonidas
and as regards the stranger--how long was he frozen?

More than a couple seconds:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9026/xmenforever6p26.jpg
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6421/xmenforever6p27.jpg
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1512/xmenforever6p28.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6860/xmenforever6p29.jpg
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5628/xmenforever6p30.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6254/xmenforever6p31.jpg


Can someone show me the halberd feat. Just so I can see it? Thanks

jrodslam
Same. Id like to see SD's halberd absorbing feat as well plz.

leonidas
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9872/20651051.jpg

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/672/sd1r.jpg

and he didn't simply kill them then absorb them--they were still LIVING beings, as galactus himself confirms:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3663/sd2f.jpg

my earlier point about possibly having to battle bobby's consciousness because SD took their essences INTO himself (as i initially thought was the case . . .) may still hold, but SD didn't seem to be struggling in any way at all to contain the essences of 53 energy entities and their collective consciousnesses. if SD can disassemble bobby the same way he did this group of energy beings i see no reason why he couldn't just absorb him the same way he did them. he could even feed bobby to galactus at a later time if bobby were being a nuisance.

the feat is valid, imo. SD wins.

Kris Blaze
Aaaah 53 entities, thought it was just around 30.

I'm bettin' we'll hear some desperate argument against it though mmm

jrodslam
Thanks Leo.

Well from those scans, like you said, he didnt kill them, but he was able to absorb their consciousness into himself and they were his guide. did he lose his consciousness prior? Why would he need theirs to guide him?

Also, was he able to use their consciousness because they were of the same race/species? He did state that "To our people, death is uncertain.."

Yet, he offered them to Gal as energy? I assume they are unable to reform like bobby, because SD stated that he would not leave them to die.

Anyways, when Iceman was absorbed, he was absorbed as a whole and not killed either, and he stayed dormant inside the being that absorbed him until he felt the time was right to come out.

Also, in another instance when his body was destroyed, he was able to take the moisture from a person who was a telepath, and kill them. Now im not sure on the level of telepathy, but she seemed to be unaware of his consciousness or his powers thus unable to stop him from doing so.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by jrodslam
Thanks Leo.

Well from those scans, like you said, he didnt kill them, but he was able to absorb their consciousness into himself and they were his guide. did he lose his consciousness prior? Why would he need theirs to guide him?

Also, was he able to use their consciousness because they were of the same race/species? He did state that "To our people, death is uncertain.."

Yet, he offered them to Gal as energy? I assume they are unable to reform like bobby, because SD stated that he would not leave them to die.

Anyways, when Iceman was absorbed, he was absorbed as a whole and not killed either, and he stayed dormant inside the being that absorbed him until he felt the time was right to come out.

Also, in another instance when his body was destroyed, he was able to take the moisture from a person who was a telepath, and kill them. Now im not sure on the level of telepathy, but she seemed to be unaware of his consciousness or his powers thus unable to stop him from doing so.

- He didn't lose his consciousness or anything. Stardust continued all the same after he gave up the remains of his race to Galactus.

- Are you referring to his fight against Fuego? Because the way that Iceman killed him would naturally not work against Stardust. That much should be obvious.

- Who was this telepath he killed?

Creshosk
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
- He didn't lose his consciousness or anything. Stardust continued all the same after he gave up the remains of his race to Galactus.

- Are you referring to his fight against Fuego? Because the way that Iceman killed him would naturally not work against Stardust. That much should be obvious.

- Who was this telepath he killed? Some blind one down in hell. Had uber regeneration. it was during the run we discovered who nightcrawlers father was.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
- He didn't lose his consciousness or anything. Stardust continued all the same after he gave up the remains of his race to Galactus.

- Are you referring to his fight against Fuego? Because the way that Iceman killed him would naturally not work against Stardust. That much should be obvious.

- Who was this telepath he killed?


Oops, my bad. It said conSCIENCE, not conSCIOUS.

Yes i am, and if that tactic were tried, why would it not work?

The telepath he killed was Ginniyeh. Also, in the x-men forever series, after Bobby spread through the ship, Jean was unable to detect his consciousness.

jrodslam
Also, can someone tell me again what exactly it was that SD absorbed?

leonidas
Originally posted by jrodslam
Thanks Leo.

Well from those scans, like you said, he didnt kill them, but he was able to absorb their consciousness into himself and they were his guide. did he lose his consciousness prior? Why would he need theirs to guide him?

i think he was feeling bad for doing what he did to them. he wanted their consciousnesses to act as a conscience for him. he didn't NEED them in any way, as he showed when he fed them to galactus.



that is unclear, but his race is a race of energy beings, each possesses a unique and seperate consciousness, so i don't see why he could NOT do the same to bobby. erm



they can't transfer consciousness like bobby can if that's what you mean. SD is capable of reintegrating himself--he said only he was able to do so because only he had the will to do so. i think his race COULD do the same thing, they just don't seem to want to.



i'm not saying absorbing bobby would kill him--not at all. i'm just saying that it would almost be a form of consciousness bfr. he'd be trapped, and hence, SD would win. i'm still not sure that bobby could survive a singularity. imo, his consciousness couldn't but evidence is still lacking one way or the other.



and SD is entirely composed of energy. no moisture to manipulate, though i guess a case could be made for bobby's consciousness trying to draw off SD's personal thermal energy. while being trapped inside SD though, that seems like a bit of a reach, imo . . .

leonidas
Originally posted by jrodslam
Also, can someone tell me again what exactly it was that SD absorbed?

he shattered their energy bodies then absorbed what was left of their forms and their still-living consciousnesses.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by jrodslam
Oops, my bad. It said conSCIENCE, not conSCIOUS.

Yes i am, and if that tactic were tried, why would it not work?

The telepath he killed was Ginniyeh. Also, in the x-men forever series, after Bobby spread through the ship, Jean was unable to detect his consciousness.

- No worries. He never displayed any kind of conscience, so I guess it's hard to say. Think it was supposed to show how dedicated Stardust was.

- Because Stardust reforms from the power cosmic. He's powered by the power cosmic and there's absolutely no reason to believe that Iceman can cut him off from this power-source, absorb someone VASTLY more powerful or escape being trapped. Fuego's power is arguably below Iceman, they're not equals. Only reason why Fuego was able to keep Bobby down was his element. Stardust is different.

- Aah yes. Iceman can definitely kill people with his power. When he reformed in Uncanny X-men (or x-men v2) he took urine from like 5 people and reformed. That's pretty decent control. Anyways, the idea that Jean can't sense his consciousness is absolute and utter bullshit. Similar would be when she could sense Dust without problem in New X-men.

jrodslam
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not saying absorbing bobby would kill him--not at all. i'm just saying that it would almost be a form of consciousness bfr. he'd be trapped, and hence, SD would win. i'm still not sure that bobby could survive a singularity. imo, his consciousness couldn't but evidence is still lacking one way or the other.

The reason for my question is because as long as there is any type of moisture around, Bobby becomes a part of it, thus, his consciousness can be anywhere. Hence Jean whose a highly powerful telepath not even being able to detect his consciousness asking if he was still there.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
- Aah yes. Iceman can definitely kill people with his power. When he reformed in Uncanny X-men (or x-men v2) he took urine from like 5 people and reformed. That's pretty decent control. Anyways, the idea that Jean can't sense his consciousness is absolute and utter bullshit. Similar would be when she could sense Dust without problem in New X-men.

When was this? Urine to reform? If youre talking about the Draco arc, they didnt do it. He wound up getting it from the telepath.

Its utter bullshit because she was able to sense Dust and not Bobby?

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by jrodslam
When was this? Urine to reform? If youre talking about the Draco arc, they didnt do it. He wound up getting it from the telepath.

Its utter bullshit because she was able to sense Dust and not Bobby?

- Oh right! I was close.

- Yes. And whether or not he has a physical form shouldn't matter, a mind still a mind.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
- Oh right! I was close.

- Yes. And whether or not he has a physical form shouldn't matter, a mind still a mind.

Close in arc.

A mind is still a mind yes, however, its hard to do anything with or to the mind if its signal(if you wanna call it) is faint/weak, shielded, to far(for some), or you just cant get a lock on it, which appeared to be the case with Jean and Bobby.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by jrodslam
Close in arc.

A mind is still a mind yes, however, its hard to do anything with or to the mind if its signal(if you wanna call it) is faint/weak, shielded, to far(for some), or you just cant get a lock on it, which appeared to be the case with Jean and Bobby.

A mind is still a mind, regardless of physical form.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
A mind is still a mind, regardless of physical form.

Who said anything about a physical form? If the mind cant be detected, you cant do anything to or against it.

Merlyn
Originally posted by Creshosk
I'm not familiar with the incident. Well, the ridiculousness of the "Oblivion incident" is certainly on par with the "Stranger incident."

leonidas
Originally posted by jrodslam
The reason for my question is because as long as there is any type of moisture around, Bobby becomes a part of it, thus, his consciousness can be anywhere. Hence Jean whose a highly powerful telepath not even being able to detect his consciousness asking if he was still there.

yeah, but my point was if SD absorbed and contained his consciousness, even if there were an ocean 3 feet away from him, it wouldn't matter because his consciousness is trapped and can't reach out. it seems a viable tactic, and a sure win for SD.

Naija boy
Agree with leo, stardust FTW

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by jrodslam
Who said anything about a physical form? If the mind cant be detected, you cant do anything to or against it.

You don't seem to be listening.

He has a mind. There is no reason why Jean couldn't detect it. X-men forever was bullshit.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You don't seem to be listening.

He has a mind. There is no reason why Jean couldn't detect it. X-men forever was bullshit.

And neither do you.

Ive posted ways where people are unable to to telepathically detect someone. If youre unable to lock onto someones consciousness, your ability to affect them becomes limited.

jrodslam
Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, but my point was if SD absorbed and contained his consciousness, even if there were an ocean 3 feet away from him, it wouldn't matter because his consciousness is trapped and can't reach out. it seems a viable tactic, and a sure win for SD.

If the consciousness was absorbed yes. SD would have to locate it would he not? In order to absorb it? Or would he just try to absorb everything in that area and hope Bobbys consciousness was there?

Its just like in the comic where Jean counldnt detect Bobby. If she were trying to absorb, how would she if she didnt even know if hes around?

Creshosk
Originally posted by Merlyn
Well, the ridiculousness of the "Oblivion incident" is certainly on par with the "Stranger incident." So it's an "I didn't like it" argument from you then. Because if the two incidents are on par, and he's done it more then once, you have to start questioning why it wouldn't be acceptable for him to do such a thing.

Merlyn
Originally posted by Creshosk
So it's an "I didn't like it" argument from you then. Because if the two incidents are on par, and he's done it more then once, you have to start questioning why it wouldn't be acceptable for him to do such a thing. I think you need to listen a bit more. Those instances being ridiculous have NOTHING to do with me simply "not liking them."

Oblivion is an abstract entity. You'd have to be a fanboy of the highest order to think that harming him in any way via a snowball attack makes any sort of sense (not to mention that event happened decades ago.)

As far as Stranger goes, it's like I've said several times now -- Considering his history of owning many of Marvel's elite (Surfer, Super Skrull, Overmind, Quasar, Watchers, etc.) -- as well as building/breaking entire planets -- The notion that he could be harmed by Bobby simply freezing his blasts/eyes is ridiculous. Why? Because Stranger's 'average' feats trump Bobby's.

But do I really expect you to take any of that into consideration? Nope. You'll just keep maintaining that Bobby is "the creation of a Celestial", so anything should be possible. Lol.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Merlyn
I think you need to listen a bit more. Those instances being ridiculous have NOTHING to do with me simply "not liking them."

Oblivion is an abstract entity. You'd have to be a fanboy of the highest order to think that harming him in any way via a snowball attack makes any sort of sense (not to mention that event happened decades ago.) So the two feats are not on par with one another.

Originally posted by Merlyn
As far as Stranger goes, it's like I've said several times now -- Considering his history of owning many of Marvel's elite (Surfer, Super Skrull, Overmind, Quasar, Watchers, etc.) -- as well as building/breaking entire planets -- The notion that he could be harmed by Bobby simply freezing his blasts/eyes is ridiculous. Why? Because Stranger's 'average' feats trump Bobby's.Sure if you're forgeting a characfter's growth over time to where Bobby's bee pulling more of his high end stunts than hos older ones. But hey, lets ignore that shall we? Filthy mutie.

Originally posted by Merlyn
But do I really expect you to take any of that into consideration? Nope. You'll just keep maintaining that Bobby is "the creation of a Celestial", so anything should be possible. Lol. Well, why not? That's part of his character... as is the growth in his powers.

Time was he could only cover himself with snow... then he could cover himself with ice... then he became ice.

Its like the first time he started covering himself with ice yelling "Its ridiculous for him to be able to do that given his average showings."

Because a character has to forever be stuck as they first appeared?

So his older showings before he figured out how to do the new things count against him being able to do the new things?

Yeah... that's fair. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Merlyn
Unbelievable facepalm

jrodslam
Is the stranger suppose to be immune to total halting of all kinetic energy/movement? Should his energy beams be immune to the same?

Its not like Bobby destroyed him, he kept him immobile when the others left as well as the ship. Why is that such a problem for him to be capable of doing?

Merlyn
Oh there's no problem. Hell, maybe if the Watcher or Overmind or even Surfer knew that they could halt Stranger just by freezing him, they wouldn't have been owned by him.

Bobby > a Watcher, Overmind, and Surfer. thumb up

jrodslam
Maybe if trying to halt all kinetic energy in a being was something they did on a regular basis, they wouldnt have.erm

Merlyn
Originally posted by jrodslam
Maybe if trying to halt all kinetic energy in a being was something they did on a regular basis, they wouldnt have.erm Maybe if owning cosmic beings whom possess Stranger's background for pwning uber characters was something Bobby did on a regular basis....

Ahh forget it, there's no use. Bobby > ALL!

batdude123
This Iceman ass f*cking as of late on the vs. forum has been quite funny.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Merlyn
I think you need to listen a bit more. Those instances being ridiculous have NOTHING to do with me simply "not liking them."

Oblivion is an abstract entity. You'd have to be a fanboy of the highest order to think that harming him in any way via a snowball attack makes any sort of sense (not to mention that event happened decades ago.)


What exactly happened in the oblivion incident? Cuz iceman hurting oblvion in the slightest is actually alot more ridiculous than any of the nonsense that even Rulk has managed to pull off.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Naija boy
What exactly happened in the oblivion incident? Cuz iceman hurting oblvion in the slightest is actually alot more ridiculous than any of the nonsense that even Rulk has managed to pull off.

IIRC, Iceman took Oblivion down with an "avalanche of truth." It was more of a philosophical debate, and Iceman knocked him down with a snow avalanche.

edit: The Feat http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4976/ice14dz5.jpg

Creshosk
Originally posted by Merlyn
Maybe if owning cosmic beings whom possess Stranger's background for pwning uber characters was something Bobby did on a regular basis....

Ahh forget it, there's no use. Bobby > ALL! Yes, yes yes. you're incredibly biased. We get that.

leonidas
Originally posted by jrodslam
If the consciousness was absorbed yes. SD would have to locate it would he not? In order to absorb it? Or would he just try to absorb everything in that area and hope Bobbys consciousness was there?

Its just like in the comic where Jean counldnt detect Bobby. If she were trying to absorb, how would she if she didnt even know if hes around?

but . . . bobby is standing right in front of him? how could he not know where his consciousness is? you're saying that if he blows him up bobby's consciousness could hide from him? i guess, for a time. but what good would that do bobby? the moment he regained some form or other SD would know where he is and could simply absorb and trap his consciousness--even assuming he simply didn't do it from the outset.

SD also has cosmic awareness. that in itself might prevent bobby from hiding from him. i'd not think bobby could hide from ss. SD doesn't have quite the awareness feats, but he DOES have CA, so that alone may make hiding impossible. it could also let SD know a LOT about bobby even before the fight begins.

and bw--that whole avalanche thing seemed a lot more METAPHYSICAL than physical to me. that's didn't appear to be anything at ALL like bobby beating him with snowballs. more like the typical character fighting off a concept like despayre or something along those lines. not sure, but that's what it seemed like to me.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Blair Wind
IIRC, Iceman took Oblivion down with an "avalanche of truth." It was more of a philosophical debate, and Iceman knocked him down with a snow avalanche.

edit: The Feat http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4976/ice14dz5.jpg

Wow...just wow. I mean from the looks of that scan oblivion was just laid out by an avalanche of snow. Was that Oblivion himself though? or just a mental a representation of him or something like that. Please tell me it was because if it wasnt that would be.......bad

leonidas
Originally posted by Naija boy
Wow...just wow. I mean from the looks of that scan oblivion was just laid out by an avalanche of snow.

i'd be willing to bet it wasn't 'real' snow, but rather a metaphysical representation of bobby's 'resistance' to fall into oblivion. if that's the case, it's not PIS it's cliche. if that was an actual physical battle that's something different, and yes, that would certainly be PIS.

Naija boy
Originally posted by leonidas
i'd be willing to bet it wasn't 'real' snow, but rather a metaphysical representation of bobby's 'resistance' to fall into oblivion. if that's the case, it's not PIS it's cliche. if that was an actual physical battle that's something different, and yes, that would certainly be PIS.

Ah well thats definitely reasonable. Cuz im not sure any writer is stupid enough to write iceman defeating oblivion at all let alone by using a snow avalanche.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by leonidas
i'd be willing to bet it wasn't 'real' snow, but rather a metaphysical representation of bobby's 'resistance' to fall into oblivion. if that's the case, it's not PIS it's cliche. if that was an actual physical battle that's something different, and yes, that would certainly be PIS.

If it wasn't an physical battle then it can be credited to willpower.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Anyways, the idea that Jean can't sense his consciousness is absolute and utter bullshit. Similar would be when she could sense Dust without problem in New X-men.

Jean had to use Cerebro(a?) to find Dust, and even then its not for certain if she found her through connecting with her mind, or simply getting a feel for "life", because Dust is not strictly biological in her sand form. Also, not that it matters:

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/1381/scan1001414vf7.jpg

And the way the two (Iceman and Dust) operate is similar but not the same. Iceman is an entity that can be housed in any water molecule/ice/vapor/ ect type setting, while Dust is able to transform into and control a malleable sand form.

jrodslam
Thanks Blair. That scan proved exactly was i was saying in posts above.

Yes, a mind is a mind, but if the mind cant be reached, theres not much that can be done to it. Hell, they were in the same room and Prof couldnt get a lock. Until she showed herself.

Leo did mention that SD's cosmic awareness may help him with that. ? Maybe. Maybe not.

Hitman911
SD> Jean & Dust

Mindset
Jean telepathy > SD cosmic awareness

Hitman911
Originally posted by Mindset
Jean telepathy > SD cosmic awareness Not with out Cerebro my friend. Notice: COSMIC awareness. Enhanced consciousness enabling a sentient being the sensation of oneness with the universe. wink

Mindset
Yes, w/o cerebro.

Thanks for the definition.

KuRuPT Thanosi
My God. Iceman almost gets wanked on this board as much as Wolverine. Fact is, to think a top herald would get beat by bobby for any kinda of majority imo is silly. On this forum SD wins pretty much everytime

leonidas
what is being 'wanked' about him? i don't think i read anywhere that anyone was saying he wins, just that he could pose a problem and he is very difficult to kill permanently. looking at the pole, it doesn't appear he's being overly wanked . . .

Firestormed
Iceman throws everything he has at bobby no effect, Stardust makes Bobby intangible and rematerialized him inside a planet fusing the world to every cell of his body

Stardust blitzes Bobby and atomizes every atom of his body transmuting him to nothing more than background radiation

before Iceman can move Stardust already dumps him in a blackhole

Mindset
Originally posted by leonidas
what is being 'wanked' about him? i don't think i read anywhere that anyone was saying he wins, just that he could pose a problem and he is very difficult to kill permanently. looking at the pole, it doesn't appear he's being overly wanked . . . If you don't see the fight going like the post below, you are wanking Iceman. dur

Originally posted by Firestormed
Iceman throws everything he has at bobby no effect, Stardust makes Bobby intangible and rematerialized him inside a planet fusing the world to every cell of his body

Stardust blitzes Bobby and atomizes every atom of his body transmuting him to nothing more than background radiation

before Iceman can move Stardust already dumps him in a blackhole

gobstakid777
Originally posted by Firestormed
Iceman throws everything he has at bobby no effect, Stardust makes Bobby intangible and rematerialized him inside a planet fusing the world to every cell of his body

Stardust blitzes Bobby and atomizes every atom of his body transmuting him to nothing more than background radiation

before Iceman can move Stardust already dumps him in a blackhole
gunsmilie

leonidas
Originally posted by Mindset
If you don't see the fight going like the post below, you are wanking Iceman. dur

ah. my bad. no expression

btw, why would iceman throw everything he has at some guy named bobby?

Creshosk
Originally posted by Firestormed
Iceman throws everything he has at bobby no effect, Stardust makes Bobby intangible and rematerialized him inside a planet fusing the world to every cell of his body

Stardust blitzes Bobby and atomizes every atom of his body transmuting him to nothing more than background radiation

before Iceman can move Stardust already dumps him in a blackhole I know you're banned but people are going to actually take this seriously without realizing that the destruction and removal of Bobby's shell does not count as a win.

That's like saying "I knocked my opponent down I win!"

No, sucking bobby's essence into the halberd.. THAT is a win.

Destroying or relocating the shell? Naw, that doesn't beat iceman.

Creshosk
Originally posted by leonidas
ah. my bad. no expression

btw, why would iceman throw everything he has at some guy named bobby? He is bobby. So why would he throw everything he's got at himself?

jrodslam
Originally posted by Creshosk
He is bobby. So why would he throw everything he's got at himself?

To make himself tougher?

leonidas
Originally posted by jrodslam
To make himself tougher?

thumb up

he was following the thor v logan thread in the comicbook forum and is trying to kill himself in hopes that he will either spontaneously or over time, evolve a set of martial arts that will allow him to simultaneously protect AND ko himself. no expression

jrodslam
Originally posted by leonidas
thumb up

he was following the thor v logan thread in the comicbook forum and is trying to kill himself in hopes that he will either spontaneously or over time, evolve a set of martial arts that will allow him to simultaneously protect AND ko himself. no expression

Talk about the ultimate fighter. Shrug.

Blanket
Originally posted by Firestormed
Iceman throws everything he has at bobby no effect, Stardust makes Bobby intangible and rematerialized him inside a planet fusing the world to every cell of his body

Stardust blitzes Bobby and atomizes every atom of his body transmuting him to nothing more than background radiation

before Iceman can move Stardust already dumps him in a blackhole /Thread

Hitman911
Wow.....

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.