Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

This is current sinestro by the way, and I specifically mention this due to that he has been abnormally more potent and powerful then before.

Silver Surfer.

Simply too fast, too versatile, too powerful..

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Silver Surfer.

Simply too fast, too versatile, too powerful..

Sinestro

Simply too fast, too versatile, too powerful..

SS FTW..he's just better..the only lantern that can go up against SS is Ion or Parallax..

I'd say Hal or Scott could pull even as well.

Also Priest and Raker.

Siinestri

SS, but we'll see how much stronger Sinestro got by the next GL issue. He is usually calm and likes to put fear into the enemy through him words. However, in last issue, he is letting his anger/rage put the fear of god in his opponents.

Sinestro.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I'd say Hal or Scott could pull even as well.



madness

Surfer.

Surfer

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Silver Surfer.

Simply too fast, too versatile, too powerful..

http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/1252248925503.jpg

Lol looks like Victor Garber.

Surfer can take any 1 GL, and give a good fight against any 2.

Sinestro pours almost all his energy out at once, ala Hannu. This kills Norrin.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Sinestro pours almost all his energy out at once, ala Hannu. This kills Norrin.

scan or issue of incident ur referring to?

excellent fight id say surfer in a very tough fight.

Originally posted by Naija boy
scan of incident ur referring to?

http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/GreenLantern23-013.jpg

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/GreenLantern23-013.jpg

ok. whats the most damage such an attack has done? cuz i fail to see how that is supposed to kill surfer.

Originally posted by Naija boy
ok. whats the most damage such an attack has done? cuz i fail to see how that is supposed to kill surfer.

Stopped the Anti Monitor for some time.

And that's from a somewhat inexperienced ring-user Hannu.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Stopped the Anti Monitor for some time.

And that's from a somewhat inexperienced ring-user Hannu.

I would hardly call what that attack did "stopping the antimonitor" at all. From my memory of Sinestro corps war, the attack didnt even hurt AM in the slightest. That scan doesnt come close to showing how such an attack would kill SS.

Originally posted by Naija boy
I would hardly call what that attack did "stopping the antimonitor" at all. From my memory of Sinestro corps war, the attack didnt even hurt AM in the slightest. That scan doesnt come close to showing how such an attack would kill SS.

http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/GreenLantern23-011-012.jpg
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/GreenLantern23-013.jpg
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/GreenLantern23-018.jpg

- Am prepares to kill them
- Hannu attacks
- The group escapes with Ion and AM slowly pursuing them

So this attack did not stop the Anti Monitor? They all just managed to dodge his attack then, somehow grab Ion and free it from the its restraints and then make distance between themselves and AM? All of this without AM being stopped or halted in any way? Hannu's attack clearly stopped the AM and bought the group enough time to rescue Ion and get as far away from the AM as they needed to survive.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/GreenLantern23-011-012.jpg
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/GreenLantern23-013.jpg
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/GreenLantern23-018.jpg

- Am prepares to kill them
- Hannu attacks
- The group escapes with Ion and AM slowly pursuing them

So this attack did not stop the Anti Monitor? They all just managed to dodge his attack then, somehow grab Ion and free it from the its restraints and then make distance between themselves and AM? All of this without AM being stopped or halted in any way? Hannu's attack clearly stopped the AM and bought the group enough time to rescue Ion and get as far away from the AM as they needed to survive.

If by stop u meant: "create an opportunity for escape without hurting the antimoniotor in the slightest" then yes it did stop him in that sense. I thought u were referring to the attack putting down antimonitor for any period of time. Regardless that incident doesnt even come close to showing that such an attack will kill surfer. There isnt even any indication of the power of the attack there.

Originally posted by Naija boy
If by stop u meant: "create an opportunity for escape without hurting the antimoniotor in the slightest" then yes it did stop him in that sense. I thought u were referring to the attack putting down antimonitor for any period of time. Regardless that incident doesnt even come close to showing that such an attack will kill surfer. There isnt even any indication of the power of the attack there.

If you don't believe that Sinestro releasing 90% of his ring in a single energy attack can take out Norrin, then you're under the impression that it's impossible for Sinestro to take him out. Which is just plain ridiculous.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
If you don't believe that Sinestro releasing 90% of his ring in a single energy attack can take out Norrin, then you're under the impression that it's impossible for Sinestro to take him out. Which is just plain ridiculous.

I specifically mentioned sinestro "killing" (not koing) norrin with such an attack. . Further such a tactic would also be utterly stupid considering tht surfer could dodge/create forcefields/phase etc in addition to using his durability to take the attack. Sinestros output would be done and surfer would more likely than anything still be conscious and able to fight.

SS is better in everything.

Originally posted by Naija boy
I specifically mentioned sinestro "killing" (not koing) norrin with such an attack. . Further such a tactic would also be utterly stupid considering tht surfer could dodge/create forcefields/phase etc in addition to using his durability to take the attack. Sinestros output would be done and surfer would more likely than anything still be conscious and able to fight. a Quick recharge can save him.

Originally posted by Naija boy
I specifically mentioned sinestro "killing" (not koing) norrin with such an attack. . Further such a tactic would also be utterly stupid considering tht surfer could dodge/create forcefields/phase etc in addition to using his durability to take the attack. Sinestros output would be done and surfer would more likely than anything still be conscious and able to fight.

It wouldn't be difficult to restrain Surfer. Sinestro's more than fast enough to tag Norrin anyways, wouldn't be a problem. Hell, even 50% would be enough to win the fight.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It wouldn't be difficult to restrain Surfer. Sinestro's more than fast enough to tag Norrin anyways, wouldn't be a problem. Hell, even 50% would be enough to win the fight.

Restrain surfer? DO u mean putting him in a construct? that wont work at all. he could easily phase thru it. He also has the energy output to quickly shatter the construct. Further emptying out even 50 percent of his power is not a very smart attack at all because Norrin is faster than Sinestro considerably so there is a huge possibility that it could be dodged. Then we have forcefields and phasing as well as durability to think about. Not only that but sinestro wont be the only one attacking here. Norrin being the faster opponenent (as well as the one with higher output) will be attacking as well and thanks to his speed will be getting in MORE attacks than Sinestro will.

Judging by the cover, Sinestro is in for a good kick in the ass

Originally posted by Naija boy
Restrain surfer? DO u mean putting him in a construct? that wont work at all. he could easily phase thru it. He also has the energy output to quickly shatter the construct. Further emptying out even 50 percent of his power is not a very smart attack at all because Norrin is faster than Sinestro considerably so there is a huge possibility that it could be dodged. Then we have forcefields and phasing as well as durability to think about. Not only that but sinestro wont be the only one attacking here. Norrin being the faster opponenent (as well as the one with higher output) will be attacking as well and thanks to his speed will be getting in MORE attacks than Sinestro will.

Sinestro is too fast.

His constructs are too strong.

Can't phase through electricity or energy.

Especially not when you're dead.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Sinestro is too fast.

His constructs are too strong.

Can't phase through electricity or energy.

Especially not when you're dead.

Too fast ? yeah right. Lets see his feats that match up to surfers then

Constructs are too strong for surfer to break? Not at all

Their is no fixed rule that states that u cant phae through energy or electricity. ITs only very specific type of forcefields that can counter it. Proof that sinestros is one of them?

Surfer has a highe routput than sinestro as well as being more durable,faster,and a better matter/manip energy manipulator. He isnt the one whose going to be dying here.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Sinestro pours almost all his energy out at once, ala Hannu. This kills Norrin. SS pours 1% of all his energy at once and kills Sinestro.

Sinestro too fast for Surfer?
And his constructs too strong for him?
Really?

And by that logic? Why can't SS shoot his 99% of power cosmic deposits in one killing blow?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Too fast ? yeah right. Lets see his feats that match up to surfers then

Constructs are too strong for surfer to break? Not at all

Their is no fixed rule that states that u cant phae through energy or electricity. ITs only very specific type of forcefields that can counter it. Proof that sinestros is one of them?

Surfer has a highe routput than sinestro as well as being more durable,faster,and a better matter/manip energy manipulator. He isnt the one whose going to be dying here.

Too fast ? yeah right. Lets see his feats that match up to Sinestro's then

Constructs can be broken by Norrin? Yeah right

There are no fixed rules which state that you can phase through electricity and energy. Only certain kind of phasers can phase through those. Proof that Norrin is one of them?

Sinestro has a highe routput than sinestro as well as being more durable,faster,and a better matter/manip energy manipulator. He isnt the one whose going to be dying here.

Originally posted by Warlord
Sinestro too fast for Surfer?
And his constructs too strong for him?
Really?

And by that logic? Why can't SS shoot his 99% of power cosmic deposits in one killing blow?

Surfer too fast for Sienstro?
Sinestro's constructs not strong enough?
Really?

Can you post any scans of anyone every unloading all of their power cosmic in a single attack?

Originally posted by Mindset
SS pours 1% of all his energy at once and kills Sinestro.

I know, it's so easy to just make random claims.

Did I ene claimed what you're quoting?

I say they have comparable speed and Surfer would be able to deal with his constructs (not that they are TOO weak)

And why wouldn't he be able to unleash 99% of his power in one blow I don't see any constraints in that

Originally posted by Warlord

And why wouldn't he be able to unleash 99% of his power in one blow I don't see any constraints in that
That's not how it works.

Originally posted by Warlord
And why wouldn't he be able to unleash 99% of his power in one blow I don't see any constraints in that

Because it's never happened....

Originally posted by xJLxKing
That's not how it works.

why?

Originally posted by Warlord
why?
Can Superman release 99 of his stored energy in one HV, or Punch? Of course not. Unless you have the proof to back it up. Do you?

in one punch it wouldn't have been an option. but why not in a HV blast?

there is just an energy output and you only have to unleash it.

anyway Surfer won't need to use 99% anyway

Originally posted by Warlord
in one punch it wouldn't have been an option. but why not in a HV blast?

there is just an energy output and you only have to unleash it.

anyway Surfer won't need to use 99% anyway
because he can't. There is a limit. Everything in the universe has a limit, but one being unless stated otherwise. Can use release all your energy in one hit? By you logic, anyone with any energy blast can release all their power in one attack. That would be stupid and too powerful for everyone. Imagine Superman releasing all his Store Energy in one HV. His HV is already stronger then the core of the sun.

Originally posted by Warlord
in one punch it wouldn't have been an option. but why not in a HV blast?

there is just an energy output and you only have to unleash it.

anyway Surfer won't need to use 99% anyway

You do not have any incidents where the Surfer has done that.

so you're basically telling me that by default once you are an energy user you cannot unleash all your deposits of energy at once....

sorry dude but I find that highly illogical.

the fact that it's not used in comics is only because of the same reason Supes doesn't always speedblitzes his opponents.

the comics would be much shorter.

Other than that I don't see why some universal limit would not allow someone use all he got at once

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You do not have any incidents where the Surfer has done that.

I do not have incidents where Flash has hit with a million IMP/ sec that doesn't mean it cannot be done

Originally posted by Warlord
so you're basically telling me that by default once you are an energy user you cannot unleash all your deposits of energy at once....

sorry dude but I find that highly illogical.

the fact that it's not used in comics is only because of the same reason Supes doesn't always speedblitzes his opponents.

the comics would be much shorter.

Other than that I don't see why some universal limit would not allow someone use all he got at once
There is a difference. Superman speed blitzes on occasions, but SS has never released all his power in one blast. Neither has Superman. Sorry man, but you are just assuming now.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Too fast ? yeah right. Lets see his feats that match up to Sinestro's then

Constructs can be broken by Norrin? Yeah right

There are no fixed rules which state that you can phase through electricity and energy. Only certain kind of phasers can phase through those. Proof that Norrin is one of them?

Sinestro has a highe routput than sinestro as well as being more durable,faster,and a better matter/manip energy manipulator. He isnt the one whose going to be dying here.

lol so u really arent going to try to show anything in regards to Sinestro and would rather copy and paste my posts? ok

Please show some of sinestros speed feats that match up to surfer evading at lightspeed in battle, blitzing multiple attackers at superspeed etc.

Further show sinestro constructs permanently holding back beings of surfers level of power output (blasts that create blackholes,one shot mid heralds level beings etc) since u are under the impression that his constructs cant be broken.

The next part of ur post is fallacious. U made the initial claim which restricted the range of phasing when no such restriction has ever been stated. U have to prove that such a restriction exists if not its a baseless
claim and nothing more.

Surfer has better output feats than sinestro (blackhole creation,oneshotting herald levelers, and even matching up to skyfather levelers ouputs), better durability feats (fighting other heralds inside blackholes while weakened, taking attacks from abstract level characters, taking huge supernovas unscathed etc), is faster (hitting light speed in battle, high level speedblitzes etc), and has better matter and energy/manip feats (channeling the crunch,converting a universe worth of soul energy into cosmic energy,evolving a planet by billions of years in seconds etc)

If u feel like u could actually attempt to prove ur case.....................or u could continue with the nonsensical copy and paste posts.

Originally posted by Warlord
I do not have incidents where Flash has hit with a million IMP/ sec that doesn't mean it cannot be done

Only, Flash stated that he could've hit Zum more than once.

Lanterns have poured all their energy into a single blast.

They split victories, 5/5 each. If I'd give anyone the victory it would be Sinestro.

Originally posted by Naija boy
lol so u really arent going to try to show anything in regards to Sinestro and would rather copy and paste my posts? ok

Please show some of sinestros speed feats that match up to surfer evading at lightspeed in battle, blitzing multiple attackers at superspeed etc.

Further show sinestro constructs permanently holding back beings of surfers level of power output (blasts that create blackholes,one shot mid heralds level beings etc) since u are under the impression that his constructs cant be broken.

The next part of ur post is fallacious. U made the initial claim which restricted the range of phasing when no such restriction has ever been stated. U have to prove that such a restriction exists if not its a baseless
claim and nothing more.

Surfer has better output feats than sinestro (blackhole creation,oneshotting herald levelers, and even matching up to skyfather levelers ouputs), better durability feats (fighting other heralds inside blackholes while weakened, taking attacks from abstract level characters, taking huge supernovas unscathed etc), is faster (hitting light speed in battle, high level speedblitzes etc), and has better matter and energy/manip feats (channeling the crunch,converting a universe worth of soul energy into cosmic energy,evolving a planet by billions of years in seconds etc)

If u feel like u could actually attempt to prove ur case.....................or u could continue with the nonsensical copy and paste posts.

I'm sorry boy, but I'm having a hard time reading this.

Between the no-scans, twisted/falsely recollected incidents, "surfer is better at everything" and my own laughter, it's difficult to make anything worthwhile out.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I'm sorry boy, but I'm having a hard time reading this.

Between the no-scans, twisted/falsely recollected incidents, "surfer is better at everything" and my own laughter, it's difficult to make anything worthwhile out.

Pitiful. Ur attempt at dodging the arguments made couldnt be any more obvious or pathetic.

Do u want scans for every incident i mentioned? cuz i can provide them. But acting like thats some huge problem and using that to mask ur inability to counter anything in my post is laughable.

Really Kris............facepalm

Originally posted by Naija boy
Pitiful. Ur attempt at dodging any of the arguments couldnt be any more obvious or pathetic.

Do u want scans for every incident i mentioned? cuz i can provide them. But acting like thats some huge problem and using that to mask ur inability to counter anything in my post is laughable.

Really Kris............facepalm

You're a fu(king joke.

Why should I bother trying to counter stupid claims? You don't seem to really know anything about what a lantern ring can do.

I posted a very simple argument. Using his near-full charge, a fairly inexperienced green lantern can stop someone far more powerful than any opponent Norrin has ever thought about fighting. The man formerly known as the greatest lantern ever, would naturally do even better. Now your response to this, seemed to be that the Surfer would survive this and/or dodge it.

What did we learn from this incident? You probably learned nothing, the rest of us gathered this:

- If 90% of Sinestro's ring connects with Norrin, he dies/loses/goes unconscious
- If 90% of Sinestro's ring connects with Norrin, he dies/loses/goes unconscious
- If 90% of Sinestro's ring connects with Norrin, he dies/loses/goes unconscious
- If 90% of Sinestro's ring connects with Norrin, he dies/loses/goes unconscious

Here's the gaping hole of ignorance pertaining the ring. They are already fast enough to hit the Flash and Zoom. Is Norrin faster than these? Of course not, of course not. Everybody who's ever touched a Flash and Surfer comic, knows this. This is granted, this is something everybody knows. Lantern rings can hit fast people. Hal was able to tag Zoom without much trouble. Does Hal have some kind of superhuman perception Sinestro does not? OF COURSE not.

So what have we learned? You've learned nothing, but the rest of us have managed to derive from these incidents a simple fact:

- Rings can hit fast people.
- Rings can hit fast people.
- Rings can hit fast people.
- Rings can hit fast people.

Naturally, Sinestro pouring lots of energy into an attack is a viable tactic. It would hit and it would knock him out. This myth about phasing? Well fortunately a lot of things strike people who are phasing. Mjolnir, energy, electricity, Wolverine Death's sword, adamantium to some degree, telepathic attacks and all sorts of different metals. And most importantly, in some incidents Martian Manhunter has been shut out by a green lantern's shield. Is Norrin a better phaser than J'onn? Of course not, of course not.

Kyle has casually shot a blast that was travelling at thousands of times lightspeed. The chances of Silver Surfer being capable of avoiding something like that, though I'm sure there are plenty of fanboys that think he can, are none.

context no doubt

^

Originally posted by psycho gundam
context no doubt

Are you talking to me ?

4e9CkhBb18E

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Bow chicka bow wow



proceed

..

Ok.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
yes.

just saying that a statement like that should be accompanied by a brief explanation of what surrounded that feat, since it's not an every fight occurrence.

and it could be a feat exclusive to a green lantern, and further exclusive to only kyle.

A mind-controlled Kyle attacked Wonder Woman who was about 50 feet away. Wally said that he only has a picosecond before the blast reaches her and eventually got the ones responsible for the mind-control in front of the blast. It takes light 3.3 picosecond to travel 1 millimeter.

And the last part is too strawman-type-of-counter to actually bother adressing.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You're a fu(king joke boy.

Why should I bother trying to counter stupid claims? You don't seem to really know anything about what a lantern ring can do.

I posted a very simple argument. Using his near-full charge, a fairly inexperienced green lantern can stop someone far more powerful than any opponent Norrin has ever thought about fighting. The man formerly known as the greatest lantern ever, would naturally do even better. Now your response to this, seemed to be that the Surfer would survive this and/or dodge it.


- If 90% of Sinestro's ring connects with Norrin, he dies/loses/goes unconscious
- If 90% of Sinestro's ring connects with Norrin, he dies/loses/goes unconscious
- If 90% of Sinestro's ring connects with Norrin, he dies/loses/goes unconscious

Here's the gaping hole of ignorance pertaining the ring. They are already fast enough to hit the Flash and Zoom. Is Norrin faster than these? Of course not, of course not. Everybody who's ever touched a Flash and Surfer comic, knows this. This is granted, this is something everybody knows. Lantern rings can hit fast people. Hal was able to tag Zoom without much trouble. Does Hal have some kind of superhuman perception Sinestro does not? OF COURSE not.

So what have we learned? You've learned nothing, but the rest of us have managed to derive from these incidents a simple fact:

- Rings can hit fast people.
- Rings can hit fast people.
- Rings can hit fast people.
- Rings can hit fast people.

Naturally, Sinestro pouring lots of energy into an attack is a viable tactic. It would hit and it would knock him out. This myth about phasing? Well fortunately a lot of things strike people who are phasing. Mjolnir, energy, electricity, Wolverine Death's sword, adamantium to some degree, telepathic attacks and all sorts of different metals. And most importantly, in some incidents Martian Manhunter has been shut out by a green lantern's shield. Is Norrin a better phaser than J'onn? Of course not, of course not.

At least uve decided to attempt to counter the argument regardless of how ridiculous ur counter is.

Now to get to this "argument of yours"


This argument was sufficiently countered earlier on in the thred. "Stopping" the antimonitor in the way u described it tells us absolutely nothing about the power of this full charge so regardless of how many times u mention it its still irreelvant. Further, my response was to point out the foolishness of such an attack because it has a high possibility of missing and that surfer has other ways of avoiding the attack


Here u resort to nonsensical redudancy as if that somehow strengthen s ur case. And then ignore part of the argument that was made clear earlier I didnt dispute that surfer could be koed if 90percent of the rings energy hits him at once. What i did was refer to ways in which surfer could stop this ffrom happening such as phasing forcefields,dodging etc.


lol, what idiocy. Being able to tag a superfast opponent on some particular occasions suddenly means u can continuously hit that opponent(or someone moving at high speeds) in a prolonged battle while they are moving at that speed? Thats inane. ITs equivalent to claiming that becuse Hulk tagged quicksilver on a particular occasion, quicksilver cant dodge hulks blows in a fight.. Or because Deathstroke
has tagged flash before, we conclude that flash isnt fast enough to dodge any of his blows. Ur just ridiculous


All that we learned is that u subscribe to false and nonsensical beliefs. And then u have the audacity to redundantly post such nonsense numerous times. lmao


While a viable tactic it likely wouldnt be effective because it could miss considering surfers speed,or could be avoided other ways. ITs not like his blasts havent been dodged before and the likelyhood of that is even moreso here where surfer will be operating at great speeds. Further mentioning the things which have negated phasing in the past is hardly proof of anything if u have no incident in which sinestros shields hve defended against such. Post the martain manhunter incident as that would stand as proof of such.

Further while ur all engrossed in ur nonsensical tactic u forget that surfer will be attacking sinestro as well and with his greater speed will be getting more attacks in. Sinestro will therefore have to be on the defensive as well.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Only, Flash stated that he could've hit Zum more than once.

Lanterns have poured all their energy into a single blast.

spidy has stated that sentry stalemates Galactus...really shall we count statements as feats?

also lol at Kyle's blast speed in comparison with Surfer

Originally posted by Warlord
spidy has stated that sentry stalemates Galactus...really shall we count statements as feats?
We know for a fact that Sentry can even Stalemate a high herald and you expect him to stalemate Galactus. Besides, how would Spiderman know?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
We know for a fact that Sentry can even Stalemate a high herald and you expect him to stalemate Galactus. Besides, how would Spiderman know?

dude all I'm saying is statements DO NOT equal feats.

I think anyone agrees to that

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You're a fu(king joke.

Why should I bother trying to counter stupid claims? You don't seem to really know anything about what a lantern ring can do.

I posted a very simple argument. Using his near-full charge, a fairly inexperienced green lantern can stop someone far more powerful than any opponent Norrin has ever thought about fighting. The man formerly known as the greatest lantern ever, would naturally do even better. Now your response to this, seemed to be that the Surfer would survive this and/or dodge it.

What did we learn from this incident? You probably learned nothing, the rest of us gathered this:

- If 90% of Sinestro's ring connects with Norrin, he dies/loses/goes unconscious

let's stop right there. Exactly how much power is in "90% of the ring?"
we see someone hitting antimonitor with a lot of energy, but don't really have a good idea of scale here.

We DO have a good idea of how much power surfer can tank though:

surfer vs. quasar

That's quasar hitting surfer with the energy equivalent of "a small star." Not only does this not KO surfer, he's not even scratched. (note also that quasar was trying to powerdrain him here. Didn't work. SS's energy reserves are simply too huge.) In the same scan we see surfer claiming that he's flown through supernovas with no problem.

Is sinestro emptying "99% of the ring" going to exceed the output of entire stars and supernovas? I'd say probably not, and even if it's on par, we know that surfer can tank those. Keep in mind this version of surfer is pretty old, and has since been upgraded (see: annihilation.)




Your error here is assuming there's only one way to phase. In fact, there's several. We see flash doing it by vibrating his molecules. J'onn and the Vision accomplish it via density manipulation. (spreading molecules out, to avoid attacks). Kitty pryde accomplishes this by actually shifting her mass partway into another dimension. Tactic #3 most definitely avoids energy attacks, and shadowcat has done it more than once. Tactics 1 and 2 are debatable. Which can surfer accomplish? All Three. Surfer's powerset grants him superspeed (tactic 1), density and matter manipulation (tactic 2), and he can cross dimensions as well, giving pretty good weight to the theory that he can accomplish tactic 3 as well.

Since the writers never bothered to establish HOW surfer does it, any one of these could be valid. Saying that a lantern ring stopped the martian manhunter doesn't mean much, since we KNOW MM is restricted to phasing via density manipulation. This isn't the case with surfer.

Hell, since surfer can time travel under his own power, one could even argue he could be time shifting his body to avoid attacks, or possibly another method entirely that we haven't thought about. Point being, since you DON'T know and SS's powerset is EXTREMELY broad, you can't say conclusively that an energy assault here would hit a phased object.

simply put because its a long post:

1.) There's evidence that surfer can tank someone throwing the equivalent of entire stars and supernovas at him- good argument that dumping "99%" of the ring isn't going to KO him

2.) Phasing as a tactic can be accomplished in a variety of ways, some of which can completely avoid energy attacks, and all of which fall under surfer's powerset. If necessary, phasing would avoid an all out attack.

I'm not saying who wins, but this argument isn't valid.

edit: sorry, doublepost

as an aside to my earlier post: it occurs to me there's a couple of incidents that point to the total energy output of a lantern ring being at or significantly less than the output of a star/supernova.

In Final Night, the Hal Jordan variant of parallax absorbed the blast/radiation of our sun going nova, and used it and his own energies to restart/reform the sun. The effort killed him, and I'm pretty sure that version of hal is substantially stronger than current sinestro.

In DC 1 million, Kyle Rayner nearly gave himself an aneurysm- he was bleeding from the nose and could barely speak- attempting to contain a weakened solaris. Solaris is a stellar supercomputer and artificial sun but is VERY small in comparison to our own sun, or even earth. It was maybe the size of a tall building. Had it been the size of an ACTUAL star, Kyle would have been easily overwhelmed, if not killed in the attempt.

So, given those two examples that directly compare the output of a lantern ring to the output of a sun/supernova, I'm going to say surfer can handle 100% of a ring's output without too much difficulty.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
as an aside to my earlier post: it occurs to me there's a couple of incidents that point to the total energy output of a lantern ring being at or significantly less than the output of a star/supernova.

In Final Night, the Hal Jordan variant of parallax absorbed the blast/radiation of our sun going nova, and used it and his own energies to restart/reform the sun. The effort killed him, and I'm pretty sure that version of hal is substantially stronger than current sinestro.

In DC 1 million, Kyle Rayner nearly gave himself an aneurysm- he was bleeding from the nose and could barely speak- attempting to contain a weakened solaris. Solaris is a stellar supercomputer and artificial sun but is VERY small in comparison to our own sun, or even earth. It was maybe the size of a tall building. Had it been the size of an ACTUAL star, Kyle would have been easily overwhelmed, if not killed in the attempt.

So, given those two examples that directly compare the output of a lantern ring to the output of a sun/supernova, I'm going to say surfer can handle 100% of a ring's output without too much difficulty.
facepalm
The fact that you think Solaris is weak makes your argument weak.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
yes.

just saying that a statement like that should be accompanied by a brief explanation of what surrounded that feat, since it's not an every fight occurrence.

and it could be a feat exclusive to a green lantern, and further exclusive to only kyle.

Could be, Kyle can make Kryptonite, have any other lanterns shown that power?

As Red Lanterns only Hal and Bleez can make constructs

Also in Rebirth Hal shows how different Lanterns use their rings differently according to their personality.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
as an aside to my earlier post: it occurs to me there's a couple of incidents that point to the total energy output of a lantern ring being at or significantly less than the output of a star/supernova.

In Final Night, the Hal Jordan variant of parallax absorbed the blast/radiation of our sun going nova, and used it and his own energies to restart/reform the sun. The effort killed him, and I'm pretty sure that version of hal is substantially stronger than current sinestro.

In DC 1 million, Kyle Rayner nearly gave himself an aneurysm- he was bleeding from the nose and could barely speak- attempting to contain a weakened solaris. Solaris is a stellar supercomputer and artificial sun but is VERY small in comparison to our own sun, or even earth. It was maybe the size of a tall building. Had it been the size of an ACTUAL star, Kyle would have been easily overwhelmed, if not killed in the attempt.

So, given those two examples that directly compare the output of a lantern ring to the output of a sun/supernova, I'm going to say surfer can handle 100% of a ring's output without too much difficulty. That's a pretty big oversimplification of what Hal did. Did you ever read that story by chance?

In Final Night, Hal could have reignited the sun easily. But that wasn't merely all he did. He got rid of the sun eater, which was extra-special in this case, as it existed in multiple dimensions at once. He also set into motion the events for Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan where Kyle figured out that the Ring and Marty were manifestations Hal left behind- enough energy to rebuild OA in all it's glory at the center of the universe. Another part of the energy allowed Kyle to become ION 1.

Even Kyle in Last Will and Testament said "The green is infinite, dude. How much of it do you think Hal needed to ignite a sun?!" suggesting the absurdity of Hal using all his power to fix Final Night.

In fact, most of your post was garbage.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
facepalm
The fact that you think Solaris is weak makes your argument weak.

reading comprehension problems?

I said solaris was weakened. not weak. After every hero in the known universe attacked solaris, a supernova was triggered at his core and SEVERELY damaged him.

Kyle was attempting to contain solaris' energies/explosion after this, and it was pretty conclusive that this was pretty much kyle's limit.

NO WAY could kyle have tanked or contained a full power solaris by himself. If he could have, he would have, instead of seeing hundreds of heroes get burned to death.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
reading comprehension problems?

I said solaris was weakened. not weak. After every hero in the known universe attacked solaris, a supernova was triggered at his core and SEVERELY damaged him.

Kyle was attempting to contain solaris' energies/explosion after this, and it was pretty conclusive that this was pretty much kyle's limit.

NO WAY could kyle have tanked or contained a full power solaris by himself. If he could have, he would have, instead of seeing hundreds of heroes get burned to death.
You mean the same Kyle to temporary stop the energies of Imperiex?

An argument can clearly be made for Sinestro, but I believe Silver Surfer wins 6/10.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
An argument can clearly be made for Sinestro, but I believe Silver Surfer wins 6/10.

Originally posted by Juntai
That's a pretty big oversimplification of what Hal did. Did you ever read that story by chance?

In Final Night, Hal could have reignited the sun easily. But that wasn't merely all he did. He got rid of the sun eater, which was extra-special in this case, as it existed in multiple dimensions at once. He also set into motion the events for Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan where Kyle figured out that the Ring and Marty were manifestations Hal left behind- enough energy to rebuild OA in all it's glory at the center of the universe. Another part of the energy allowed Kyle to become ION 1.

Even Kyle in Last Will and Testament said "The green is infinite, dude. How much of it do you think Hal needed to ignite a sun?!" suggesting the absurdity of Hal using all his power to fix Final Night.

In fact, most of your post was garbage.

I have read the story, but no longer have it. If someone has scans so we can see exactly what part of reigniting Sol killed Hal (since it's not really debatable that the feat killed him) that might settle it, since we disagree.

My interpretation is that the energy itself might be infinite, but Hal's ability to manipulate it at that level was not and the strain killed him. And again, we're talking current Sinestro, who doesn't have anywhere near that level of power.



not sure what imperiex has to do with anything, but yes, the same kyle was shown to be less powerful than solaris, who in turn had an output less than the sun.

If kyle's ring, or his control over it, was superior or equal- absorbing or containing an exploding sun would have been no problem. as it was, it was tearing him apart.

Surfer 7/10

I am saying, he held the power of Imperiex. And if I remember correctly, imperiex stores the power of a big bang.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
I have read the story, but no longer have it. If someone has scans so we can see exactly what part of reigniting Sol killed Hal (since it's not really debatable that the feat killed him) that might settle it, since we disagree.

My interpretation is that the energy itself might be infinite, but Hal's ability to manipulate it at that level was not and the strain killed him. And again, we're talking current Sinestro, who doesn't have anywhere near that level of power.
There's nothing to debate, the later storyline, Legacy; the last will and testament invariably told us that reigniting the sun wasn't a difficult task for him. He did a lot more than that. Did you not read my post?

Here, I'll post it again so you can take it in one more time.

Originally posted by Juntai
That's a pretty big oversimplification of what Hal did. Did you ever read that story by chance?

In Final Night, Hal could have reignited the sun easily. But that wasn't merely all he did. He got rid of the sun eater, which was extra-special in this case, as it existed in multiple dimensions at once. He also set into motion the events for Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan where Kyle figured out that the Ring and Marty were manifestations Hal left behind- enough energy to rebuild OA in all it's glory at the center of the universe. Another part of the energy allowed Kyle to become ION 1.

Even Kyle in Last Will and Testament said "The green is infinite, dude. How much of it do you think Hal needed to ignite a sun?!" suggesting the absurdity of Hal using all his power to fix Final Night.

In fact, most of your post was garbage.
Hal MADE that his final moments on his own decisions.


Why would you think Hal's ability to manipulate energy at that level would not be enough, when in Zero Hour, he was recreating the multi-verse?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I am saying, he held the power of Imperiex. And if I remember correctly, imperiex stores the power of a big bang.

I don't find bringing imperiex into it useful since we don't know how much power he TRULY has, other than "a lot." Kyle failed to stop imperiex anyway, so it's a moot point.

Without getting too off track, my point was this. Surfer can take hits up to the output of a small star without damage, and has absorbed one before. So damaging him with energy alone would have to exceed this by quite a bit.

In the one instance where we have kyle's ring versus a sentient star (whose total output is less than Sol) it's shown conclusively that kyle's ring (or his control over it) is less. Otherwise Kyle could have tanked Solaris by himself.



so you're saying Hal decided to suicide by choice? I'm not sure I buy that interpretation.

Imperiex's personal energies where akin to that of the Big Bang and Kyle contained it for a time did he not?

I bet that was his point.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
I don't find bringing imperiex into it useful since we don't know how much power he TRULY has, other than "a lot." Kyle failed to stop imperiex anyway, so it's a moot point.

Without getting too off track, my point was this. Surfer can take hits up to the output of a small star without damage, and has absorbed one before. Imperiex's energy create a second big bang. It's not just 'a lot'.

Surfer didn't absorb a star, got scans?
There was one people were tossing around before that was a single panel or two that made it look like he did, then MrMaster I think it was, showed the rest of it, and not only did he not do it, or even close, but it nearly drove him mad trying. It was too much energy for him.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
I don't find bringing imperiex into it useful since we don't know how much power he TRULY has, other than "a lot." Kyle failed to stop imperiex anyway, so it's a moot point.

Without getting too off track, my point was this. Surfer can take hits up to the output of a small star without damage, and has absorbed one before. So damaging him with energy alone would have to exceed this by quite a bit.

In the one instance where we have kyle's ring versus a sentient star (whose total output is less than Sol) it's shown conclusively that kyle's ring (or his control over it) is less. Otherwise Kyle could have tanked Solaris by himself.



so you're saying Hal decided to suicide by choice? I'm not sure I buy that interpretation.
Again, there is a difference between a Multiverse/universe and one star. Kyle contained the big bang.

What's so hard to understand???

Originally posted by Space M ummy

so you're saying Hal decided to suicide by choice? I'm not sure I buy that interpretation. I told you what the story said.
-shrugs.-

Originally posted by Juntai
Imperiex's energy create a second big bang. It's not just 'a lot'.

Surfer didn't absorb a star, got scans?
There was one people were tossing around before that was a single panel or two that made it look like he did, then MrMaster I think it was, showed the rest of it, and not only did he not do it, or even close, but it nearly drove him mad trying. It was too much energy for him.

it's in the respect thread somewhere, I'll post it if I can locate it. There's also the scan I posted where quasar absorbs the equivalent of "a small star" from surfer's power cosmic reserves, and throws it back at him.

surfer not only takes that shot, but doesn't notice the energy was missing in the first place. That seems pretty conclusive that his power reserves are equivalent to or greater than a star's output.

And again, those scans are pretty old. current surfer obtained a power boost post annihilation.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Again, there is a difference between a Multiverse/universe and one star. Kyle contained the big bang.

What's so hard to understand???

what's hard to understand is that you're claiming that kyle contained a big bang, but is shown almost killing himself trying to contain solaris who is not only NOT a big bang, he's not even one star.

one of those is wrong, and I'm guessing it's the interpretation of imperiex's power level.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
it's in the respect thread somewhere, I'll post it if I can locate it. There's also the scan I posted where quasar absorbs the equivalent of "a small star" from surfer's power cosmic reserves, and throws it back at him.

surfer not only takes that shot, but doesn't notice the energy was missing in the first place. That seems pretty conclusive that his power reserves are equivalent to or greater than a star's output.

And again, those scans are pretty old. current surfer obtained a power boost post annihilation. Uh-huh.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
what's hard to understand is that you're claiming that kyle contained a big bang, but is shown almost killing himself trying to contain solaris who is not only NOT a big bang, he's not even one star.

one of those is wrong, and I'm guessing it's the interpretation of imperiex's power level. I'm guessing someone hasn't read any of the material he's trying to discuss in the thread.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
what's hard to understand is that you're claiming that kyle contained a big bang, but is shown almost killing himself trying to contain solaris who is not only NOT a big bang, he's not even one star.

one of those is wrong, and I'm guessing it's the interpretation of imperiex's power level.

facepalm Forget it, You can't be reasoned with

Originally posted by batdude123
Lord. facepalm

You really think Waid put that much thought into it when he wrote that?

Yes. uhuh

bump

Norrin

Surfer 6/10.

Originally posted by guy222
Norrin

Sinestro leader of the yellow lantern corps, superior of Hal Jordan?
I think he would take the majority, why? Expertise.

Sinestrollax.