Most knowledgein the force

Advent

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Gideon made NO case for Odan Urr*

But Advent has: Odan-Urr was the de facto grand master of the Order during his time according to the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, which states several times that "he presided over Jedi assemblies".

"Until the Jedi Purge, the teachings of Jedi Master Odan-Urr formed a foundation for the Jedi Code. His insights into the will of the living Force were taught for millenia after his passing.

He achieved the rank of Jedi Master and presided over the Jedi assembly for more than six centuries. Many of his teachings came from these years of meditation, study, and conference with a multitude of Jedi Masters." (Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, Ch. 6, pg. 99)

Odan-Urr is the grandfather of the modern Jedi Order, starting with his own. He is the only person in Star Wars history to have made amendments to the Jedi Code; something which all Jedi adhere to, and live by. His studies have lead to such an understanding of the principles of the light side that his writings on the Jedi Code, that is, the Force and the manner of how the Jedi react with it, are considered what shaped the Jedi Order up to what we see in the "Prime of the Jedi" - the Prequel Trilogy.

I know this may sound like a challenging task for someone like yourself, but just think about that. Thousands of years after his death, the Jedi still considered him possibly the most influential individual on their own religion and understanding of the Force.

How did he get this "knowledgeable", you may ask? The Great Jedi Library, the greatest collection of knowledge the Jedi Order had ever known, was founded by Odan-Urr. The library consisted of a plethora of scrolls, holocrons and information (both from the Jedi and the Sith) dating back to before the use of the hyperdrive. If we follow the galactic usage of the hyperdrive post-Rakata, that's 25,000 BBY. Ossus was destroyed in 3,996 BBY. What was contained there spanned well over twenty-thousand years; knowledge from the very establishment of the Jedi Order! The Jedi Archives of the PT were started with scraps that were preserved from the library on Ossus.

We get an idea about how much was lost and thus held in the noggin of Odan "The Enlightened One" Urr when the evacuations are nearing their end on Ossus due to the oncoming supernova.

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/5096/entireyear.th.jpg

"The emergency efforts of all the Jedi can barely scratch the surface of the knowledge entombed on Ossus" - the omniscient narrator telling us the capacity of information on Ossus. Tott Donetta goes on to say that even if they had an entire year, what's stored in the library could not be fully rescued.

Another indication of the sheer vastness of that Jedi Library is seen when Exar Kun storms Ossus, and takes with him a small fraction of scrolls and artifacts back to his base on Yavin IV.

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2903/morewealthandknowledge.th.jpg

The narrator described the limited quantity of texts that were gathered as "more wealth and knowledge than could ever use".

To put all of this into perspective, Odan-Urr was the one who collected all that invaluable information, organized it, and studied it for well over a millennium. An emphasis on "studied" because that's precisely what he did. He was a scholar, devoting the majority of his life to expanding his knowledge base and meditating upon these findings every single day of his life and he's had more than a thousand years to do such. Of course his knowledge of the Force should be counted among the greatest.

Wolverine2179

Where did you get those scans? I thought swtimelineru didn't have them anymore.

Dr McBeefington

Originally posted by Advent
But Advent has: Odan-Urr was the de facto grand master of the Order during his time according to the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, which states several times that "he presided over Jedi assemblies".

"Until the Jedi Purge, the teachings of Jedi Master Odan-Urr formed a foundation for the Jedi Code. His insights into the will of the living Force were taught for millenia after his passing.

He achieved the rank of Jedi Master and presided over the Jedi assembly for more than six centuries. Many of his teachings came from these years of meditation, study, and conference with a multitude of Jedi Masters." (Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, Ch. 6, pg. 99)

Odan-Urr is the grandfather of the modern Jedi Order, starting with his own. He is the only person in Star Wars history to have made amendments to the Jedi Code; something which all Jedi adhere to, and live by. His studies have lead to such an understanding of the principles of the light side that his writings on the Jedi Code, that is, the Force and the manner of how the Jedi react with it, are considered what shaped the Jedi Order up to what we see in the "Prime of the Jedi" - the Prequel Trilogy.

I know this may sound like a challenging task for someone like yourself, but just think about that. Thousands of years after his death, the Jedi still considered him possibly the most influential individual on their own religion and understanding of the Force.

How did he get this "knowledgeable", you may ask? The Great Jedi Library, the greatest collection of knowledge the Jedi Order had ever known, was founded by Odan-Urr. The library consisted of a plethora of scrolls, holocrons and information (both from the Jedi and the Sith) dating back to before the use of the hyperdrive. If we follow the galactic usage of the hyperdrive post-Rakata, that's 25,000 BBY. Ossus was destroyed in 3,996 BBY. What was contained there spanned well over twenty-thousand years; knowledge from the very establishment of the Jedi Order! The Jedi Archives of the PT were started with scraps that were preserved from the library on Ossus.

We get an idea about how much was lost and thus held in the noggin of Odan "The Enlightened One" Urr when the evacuations are nearing their end on Ossus due to the oncoming supernova.

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/5096/entireyear.th.jpg

"The emergency efforts of all the Jedi can barely scratch the surface of the knowledge entombed on Ossus" - the omniscient narrator telling us the capacity of information on Ossus. Tott Donetta goes on to say that even if they had an entire year, what's stored in the library could not be fully rescued.

Another indication of the sheer vastness of that Jedi Library is seen when Exar Kun storms Ossus, and takes with him a small fraction of scrolls and artifacts back to his base on Yavin IV.

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2903/morewealthandknowledge.th.jpg

The narrator described the limited quantity of texts that were gathered as "more wealth and knowledge than could ever use".

To put all of this into perspective, Odan-Urr was the one who collected all that invaluable information, organized it, and studied it for well over a millennium. An emphasis on "studied" because that's precisely what he did. He was a scholar, devoting the majority of his life to expanding his knowledge base and meditating upon these findings every single day of his life and he's had more than a thousand years to do such. Of course his knowledge of the Force should be counted among the greatest.

Sorry Advent, but Odan Urr falls in the same category of unknown as Revan. His one feat included trying a wall of light technique on Exar Kun, failing, and dying. Also, prove he studied everything, or a fraction of what he put into the library. And finally, sith holocrons? No Advent, the extent of his sith knowledge was the ONE holocron he found a thousand years earlier, which Exar Kun then took from him.

Edit:

You'll have to explain how his "insights" equate to deep force knowledge or command of the force.

Red Nemesis

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

This is clearly not a double standard!

truejedi

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

This is clearly not a double standard!

That second quote was from Dr. I don't have to substantiate Shit McBeefington. Was the first one from him as well?

If so, I wanna lulz some. laughing

Red Nemesis

The first quote is from this thread. The second was from the Revan thread.

Both were from DS.

The double standard thing was a tribute to Gideon.

Also: The epic faylure of DS.

Slash_KMC

That's awkward.

Dr McBeefington

Originally posted by truejedi
That second quote was from Dr. I don't have to substantiate Shit McBeefington. Was the first one from him as well?

If so, I wanna lulz some. laughing

Go ahead and lulz. It's all you have left after getting your ass handed to you LOL smile

Dr McBeefington

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
The first quote is from this thread. The second was from the Revan thread.

Both were from DS.

The double standard thing was a tribute to Gideon.

Also: The epic faylure of DS.

Prove it. Also, I hope you understand that I was referring to combat, which would make Odan Urr as unknown as Revan. Furthermore, there's no proof Odan Urr studied even a fraction of his own library, which goes back to the library analogy. His one showing was a failed technique against a more powerful opponent, followed by his death. His "insights" don't speak volumes for his supposed force knowledge. Try again.

truejedi

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
The first quote is from this thread. The second was from the Revan thread.

Both were from DS.

The double standard thing was a tribute to Gideon.

Also: The epic faylure of DS.

He has been full of that later. Fading farther and farther away from logic since I kicked his ass and he couldn't handle it! laughing

Hewhoknowsall

One could argue Bane, since he learned what both Revan AND Naga Sadow knew (assuming that Revan and Sadow put all of their knowledge into their holograms).

Or Yoda, since he had like 800 years to study the ways of the Force.

Dr McBeefington

You just have to feel bad for TJ. After getting his ass curbstomped in the previous debate that was acknowledged by others, he has had no choice but to turn to delusion and denial as well as repeating what I say verbatim. I guess with that kind of ass kicking one ends up turning into a parrot. Priceless./

Dr McBeefington

A few hours later::

Originally posted by truejedi
He has been full of that later. Fading farther and farther away from logic since I kicked his ass and he couldn't handle it! laughing

Hewhoknowsall

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
You just have to feel bad for TJ. After getting his ass curbstomped in the previous debate that was acknowledged by others, he has had no choice but to turn to delusion and denial as well as repeating what I say verbatim. I guess with that kind of ass kicking one ends up turning into a parrot. Priceless./

???

I haven't read the argument, but was it you that said that jedi librarians don't have all that much knowledge about books?

Besides, TJ is more civilized then most people here.

Anyway, Yoda is as I said an obvious contender. He has had like 8 centuries to study the Force. That's like 8+ times the amount of studying time that most other jedi/sith got.

For sith, maybe Bane?

Dr McBeefington

No. And he may be civilized but he's as dumb as they get when it comes to conceding after getting his ass kicked.

Dr McBeefington

Originally posted by Advent
You've used the (admittedly logical) reasoning that Revan was a scholar; therefore he studied virtually everything he got his hands on. The same principle applies here because Odan-Urr was a scholar, only in his case devoting more time than anyone in the entire mythology to knowledge of the Force given that he's had one thousand years to do such!
Explain how the same applies to Odan Urr. Revan searched for as many techniques as he could equip himself with while Odan Urr was busy reading the history of the sith. I would put him as historian more than a scholar.

Or you're incapable of reading TOTJ, as Odan Urr states it's the only sith holocron as far as anyone knows. Try again.

Your point? Once again, there's no evidence that Odan Urr was a scholar, rather than a historian. He's not the most powerful Jedi of his time, he's not the 2nd most powerful jedi of his time, nor the 3rd.

Hilarious. So because Odan Urr excavated it or created a library, then he MUST have studied most of the things in there?

He was also the oldest. What's your point? That's like saying "Vodo Baas is awesome because he's a battlemaster." Again, nothing suggesting Odan Urr studied all of that knowledge, as opposed to Revan who fell to the dark side because he hungered for knowledge.

Right. About insights into the force, about the Jedi code, not about actual techniques.

You haven't smacked anything down. As Gideon often says, you're reaching.

truejedi

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
???

I haven't read the argument, but was it you that said that jedi librarians don't have all that much knowledge about books?

Besides, TJ is more civilized then most people here.

Anyway, Yoda is as I said an obvious contender. He has had like 8 centuries to study the Force. That's like 8+ times the amount of studying time that most other jedi/sith got.

For sith, maybe Bane?

thank you. Not sure what all Beefington saidhe's on ignore, but in denial of the fact: based on the fact that in the quoted portion above, he called me a parrot... whatever that means. Its not even that insulting really. , but i appreciate it.

His actual argument was that Revan had more force knowledge than anyone but Sidious. I asked him to prove it. He repeatedly said: Lolz, I don't have to substantiate it. That's almost a direct quote. He said it repeatedly, which naturally angered myself, because it spits in the face of everything this forum is about. You don't make statements without being able to prove it. Been that way since my first post years ago.

I told him repeatedly if I misunderstood what he was claiming, to clarify it, but he only confirmed that he thought he could make a statement like that about revan without being forced to substantiate any of it.

As always, DS skipped straight to the name-calling instead of proving his shit. I, to my shame, responded in kind for once. It deteriorated from there. I'm still waiting for his proof. He keeps dishing out insults instead, so I have lost all respect for him at this point. If he ever makes an attempt to back up what he claimed, or attempts to let me know that I have misconstrued his point, I'll listen, but until then...

So in the meantime, if he asks you to prove something, you can decline based on your own opinion of what happened. Works for him, and allows him to repeatedly claim victory in a debate that never got past the opening salvo.

Noticing what happened in this thread, with subjekt, Red, Yourself, and Advent, either DS is not as easy to understand as he thinks he is, or he is constantly backtracking. Because he doesn't seem to have really back-tracked much in the past, i'd give him the benefit of the doubt and call it the former, but since he refuses to indulge what he exactly meant when he said he doesn't have to substantiate his claims... I am left to wonder.

Advent

Originally posted by truejedi
Noticing what happened in this thread, with subjekt, Red, Yourself, and Advent, either DS is not as easy to understand as he thinks he is, or he is constantly backtracking. Because he doesn't seem to have really back-tracked much in the past, i'd give him the benefit of the doubt and call it the former, but since he refuses to indulge what he exactly meant when he said he doesn't have to substantiate his claims... I am left to wonder.

Don't give him the benefit of the doubt. Give me the benefit of the doubt when I say that...we've seen too many times what you've described about your discussion with tdt--Dr. McBeefington. This dates back to his original account that was banned for trolling (read: idiocy).

truejedi

Originally posted by Advent
Don't give him the benefit of the doubt. Give me the benefit of the doubt when I say that...we've seen too many times what you've described about your discussion with tdt--Dr. McBeefington. This dates back to his original account that was banned for trolling (read: idiocy).

since i have had nothing but enjoyable debate with yourself, i acquiesce to your request.

Dr McBeefington

Originally posted by truejedi
thank you. Not sure what all Beefington saidhe's on ignore, but in denial of the fact: based on the fact that in the quoted portion above, he called me a parrot... whatever that means. Its not even that insulting really. , but i appreciate it.

His actual argument was that Revan had more force knowledge than anyone but Sidious. I asked him to prove it. He repeatedly said: Lolz, I don't have to substantiate it. That's almost a direct quote. He said it repeatedly, which naturally angered myself, because it spits in the face of everything this forum is about. You don't make statements without being able to prove it. Been that way since my first post years ago.

I told him repeatedly if I misunderstood what he was claiming, to clarify it, but he only confirmed that he thought he could make a statement like that about revan without being forced to substantiate any of it.

As always, DS skipped straight to the name-calling instead of proving his shit. I, to my shame, responded in kind for once. It deteriorated from there. I'm still waiting for his proof. He keeps dishing out insults instead, so I have lost all respect for him at this point. If he ever makes an attempt to back up what he claimed, or attempts to let me know that I have misconstrued his point, I'll listen, but until then...

So in the meantime, if he asks you to prove something, you can decline based on your own opinion of what happened. Works for him, and allows him to repeatedly claim victory in a debate that never got past the opening salvo.

Noticing what happened in this thread, with subjekt, Red, Yourself, and Advent, either DS is not as easy to understand as he thinks he is, or he is constantly backtracking. Because he doesn't seem to have really back-tracked much in the past, i'd give him the benefit of the doubt and call it the former, but since he refuses to indulge what he exactly meant when he said he doesn't have to substantiate his claims... I am left to wonder.

Kinda embarrassing when 2-3 people agreed with me and TJ kept crying, and ignoring facts. Then instead of conceding, he continued to embarrass himself. And yet here he is still trying to convince people while riding other people's coattails so he can feel better about getting his ass kicked. Truly sad.

Dr McBeefington

Originally posted by Advent
Don't give him the benefit of the doubt. Give me the benefit of the doubt when I say that...we've seen too many times what you've described about your discussion with tdt--Dr. McBeefington. This dates back to his original account that was banned for trolling (read: idiocy).

Ah and advent being the typical moron resorts to the tdtd comments when angry. You're very transparent.

Advent

Are you f'ing blind?

Originally posted by Advent
Provide the scan or please shut up.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4547/galacticmuseum.th.jpg

"From the galactic museum on Coruscant, Satal and Aleema stole a book of ancient Sith spells" - just one holocron according to TOTJ, was it?

"The library contained knowledge forbidden by the Jedi Order, such as Sith holocrons. Odan-Urr believed that all knowledge-even knowledge of evil- might prove valuable in defense of justice." (Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, Ch. 7, pg. 135)."

Canon coming directly from the primary source material and the sourcebook trump your falsehoods and make it known that you're a pathetic hack. Good game, troll.

Put up or shut up. This is otherwise known as calling you out. Provide the scans that show Odan-Urr confirming your unsupported absurdity or admit that you've been talking out of your ass this entire time.

I'd certainly hand out the scans if they existed, but they don't. Don't accuse me of intentionally hiding evidence. It's not my job to support your claims. The burden of proof lies upon you.

In Dark Lords of the Sith, the instance where Odan talks to Nomi about the holocron is two pages, one of which I've already posted to support my argument:

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2258/keeperofantiquities.th.jpg

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/788/maytheforceodan.th.jpg

Tell us where any mention of "one holocron" is at. Oh? What's that? None? Indeed, you've been caught in a lie. The primary source material directly contradicts your assertions. QED.

Dr McBeefington

Originally posted by Advent
Are you f'ing blind?

Put up or shut up. This is otherwise known as calling you out. Provide the scans that show Odan-Urr confirming your unsupported absurdity or admit that you've been talking out of your ass this entire time.

I'd certainly hand out the scans if they existed, but they don't. Don't accuse me of intentionally hiding evidence. It's not my job to support your claims. The burden of proof lies upon you.

In Dark Lords of the Sith, the instance where Odan talks to Nomi about the holocron is two pages, one of which I've already posted to support my argument:

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2258/keeperofantiquities.th.jpg

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/788/maytheforceodan.th.jpg

Tell us where any mention of "one holocron" is at. Oh? What's that? None? Indeed, you've been caught in a lie. The primary source material directly contradicts your assertions. QED.

So you have all of the TOTJ comics? Are you sure?

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8359/adventisanidiot.png

And as usual Advent embarrasses herself with blatant ignorance. This has been swell. Advent, you should move on, this stuff is giving you too much stress to the point where you can't argue intelligently anymore smile

Advent

That's from TSW, which happens to be a separate collection of comics from DLotS. Anyways,

Originally posted by Advent
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4547/galacticmuseum.th.jpg

"From the galactic museum on Coruscant, Satal and Aleema stole a book of ancient Sith spells".

How does Odan-Urr having the only Sith holocron known at the time negate the fact that there were troves of ancient Sith knowledge in the hands of the Jedi and on Ossus specifically? It doesn't.

How does Odan-Urr having the only Sith holocron known at the time negate my arguments for his Force knowledge? It doesn't.

Either address them or shut up.

Dr McBeefington

Originally posted by Advent
That's from TSW, which happens to be a separate collection of comics from DLotS. Anyways,
Doesn't matter. You claimed to have owned ALL of the TOTJ comics. I've disproved that notion.

You claimed that the library and/or Odan Urr had sith holocrons whereas I disproved this notion. Now you're backpeddling. Now please, what do you define as "troves of ancient sith knowledge" exactly?

Back peddling Advent, how sad. You don't have any argument concerning his force abilities. You have an argument concerning his knowledge of history, as well as jedi philosophy and meditation on the force. There's no sources that state or show Odan Urr pursuing the knowledge/power that I originally discussed. Try again.

Dr McBeefington

Originally posted by Advent
Factual error:

And if I didn't make myself clear enough, I stated that it's not my job to sort through dozens of comic books to find a single line that gave credence to one point you've brought up. The onus was on you do such, and doing such doesn't disprove the fact that I do have "almost all" the comics on my computer.
Actually you called me a liar. I was going to post it sooner but I wanted to see how far knee deep in shit you could get.

No, but it definitely gives you the title of ignorant.

Wonderful. So what we know is Odan Urr had access to ONE sith story. Congratulations Advent. And you keep mentioning Coruscant. Great?

...

Yes, in Advent's corner: A bunch of shit that doesn't really explain much, more quotes that are contradicted by actual evidence, and a lot of personal attacks which make me wonder what grade you're in.

My corner: No proof that Odan Urr had an advanced knowledge or command of the force or force techniques aside for a FEW. No proof that Odan Urr studied even a fraction of what was in the library. The lack of proof basically shits on your argument. We can do this all night sweetheart.

Advent

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Actually you called me a liar. I was going to post it sooner but I wanted to see how far knee deep in shit you could get.

I have to know, how does calling you a liar for saying something repeatedly and not proving it until you've been verbally berated speak to anything other than your fetish for abuse? At one point, you specifically mentioned DLotS as the source. I provided the scans and nothing there supported your point. The rules of a debate dictate that the burden of proof lied upon you to prove your claims, therefore the onus wasn't on me. To put it simply, I'm not responsible for your arguments.

Blanket statements don't mean squat. Either accept valid canon, scans and logic or don't debate at all.

I've provided mountains of proof, refusing to accept it doesn't make it any less valid.

I know you think you're the "big man on campus" because you managed to contradict one point, but let me reiterate: Odan having the only Sith holocron in existence does not negate the fact that's he's one of the most knowledgeable Force users ever, nor does it negate the fact that he did have knowledge directly from the ancient Sith.

Advent

I may have been a tad bit hasty in labeling you as a liar, but the case can certainly be made that you're a hypocrite. Following on what Red Nemesis pointed out, there's a double standard here:

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
It's not though. His knowledge is definitely top tier and few rival it. We don't have to know WHAT he knows specifically, just that he had access to the underground cities of Malachor V and the tombs of Korriban.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Bullshit. Malachor V was described as being "underground cities with sith scrolls and holocrons", or something to that nature. We all know the value of the Korriban treasures and tombs, and Revan was the first to plunder them. Don't argue out of ignorance.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
It doesn't matter. Both were sith worlds. Revan put some of his findings into his holocron and Bane could hardly "wrap his mind around the techniques." It doesn't matter what specific powers he found. And you're going to REALLY debate the value of the tombs and relics of an unplundered Korriban? Please.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
You don't have a point. Revan studied the force. This was who he was. I'm not going to waste my time proving KOTOR, KOTOR II, and the Chronicles of Revan to you. Facts are facts, deal with them.

Your basis for Revan studying all of this was because he was a scholar and craved knowledge of the Force. This sounds strikingly similar to the argument for Odan's knowledge, except the information base he had to work with and the time he had to study it was tenfold that of Revan's. There's also mountains of proof supporting my conclusion here whereas in the case you made for Revan, nothing but assumptions were made.

Dr McBeefington

Originally posted by Advent

Your basis for Revan studying all of this was because he was a scholar and craved knowledge of the Force. This sounds strikingly similar to the argument for Odan's knowledge, except the information base he had to work with and the time he had to study it was tenfold that of Revan's. There's also mountains of proof supporting my conclusion here whereas in the case you made for Revan, nothing but assumptions were made.
Tenfold? This is definitely reaching, considering there's nothing indicating that anything from Korriban or Malachor V, the CENTERS of sith knowledge, made it back to coruscant or to the Jedi, during Odan Urr's time. So while Odan Urr's knowledge of philosophy, meditation, and MAYBE Jedi techniques could be greater than Revan's, Revan's knowledge of the dark side and the sith far surpass Odan Urr.

kotorfan

whats with the debates... I thought this is supposed to be just a list of ppl who u think are the most knowledgeable in the Force.

Incanus

They are debating if he has the most knowledge or not. As far as jedi go, I would say him or Yoda.

As far as Sith, there is no way Revan knew more than Sidious, as Revan put his teachings in a holocron, Bane found it, and out it all in HIS holocron. Sidious had access to 1000 years of new sith knowledge, on top of the holocrons of those that Bane found (a.k.a. Freedon Nadd, Belia Darzu, etc.)

Wolverine2179

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Tenfold? This is definitely reaching, considering there's nothing indicating that anything from Korriban or Malachor V, the CENTERS of sith knowledge, made it back to coruscant or to the Jedi, during Odan Urr's time. So while Odan Urr's knowledge of philosophy, meditation, and MAYBE Jedi techniques could be greater than Revan's, Revan's knowledge of the dark side and the sith far surpass Odan Urr.

What DS "knowledge" did revan far surpass that of odan?

And just where is this quote of revan plundering malachor and korriban? I want the exact quote of him actually studying there because i can't remember who stated it.

Dr McBeefington

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
What DS "knowledge" did revan far surpass that of odan?

And just where is this quote of revan plundering malachor and korriban? I want the exact quote of him actually studying there because i can't remember who stated it.

What knowledge did Odan Urr have of the sith? Oh right... Nothing except a wonderful story about a jedi/sith betraying his master. Great! Revan went to Malachor V and discovered underground cities filled with sith tomes and holocrons. Then he went and plundered Korriban. Yea, I'd say his knowledge of the dark side and the sith is far beyond Odan Urr.

Wolverine2179

Yeah, you still haven't told me the quote that stated revan plundered everything on malachor let alone actually tell me what revan learned.

Hell you haven't even proven revan learned anything from malachor v.

Funny how you claim odan urr knows nothing about the dark side seeing he had sadow's holocron and that exar was so desperate to steal it from him.

truejedi

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Yeah, you still haven't told me the quote that stated revan plundered everything on malachor let alone actually tell me what revan learned.

Hell you haven't even proven revan learned anything from malachor v.

This is EXACTLY the argument I had with him. You might as well be quoting me. He never answered me, or substantiated squat, but he went straight for insults and declaring victory.

DS, i'm not trying to insult you with the above paragraph, but it is FACT. Those are the things you did.

Dr McBeefington

Originally posted by truejedi
This is EXACTLY the argument I had with him. You might as well be quoting me. He never answered me, or substantiated squat, but he went straight for insults and declaring victory.

DS, i'm not trying to insult you with the above paragraph, but it is FACT. Those are the things you did.

And this is 100% irrelevant because we weren't talking about combat scenario, and my declaration of victory was factual.

Autokrat

Saying that you can't prove Revan learned anything from Malachor V is inane. We know he studied in the cities on the planet, we know that he learned about the True Sith and obviously he learned a lot about the Dark Side since the planet almost ate him. Clearly the knowledge in his holocron had to come from somewhere. No one is trying to specify exactly what he learned (because we can't), but obviously is was impressive.

I personally wouldn't say that Revan plundered everything on Malachor, because that would be ridiculous, considering that the world was a Dark Side nexus of knowledge and Revan had a limited time frame. However, Revan still ranks high in terms knowledge of the Force and Dark Side in general.

Aside from that I'd put Yoda, Sidious and Odan up at the top of the knowledge list. Personally I think it should be split into categories though. Sidious certainly knows more about the Dark Side than either Odan or Yoda combined, but I imagine they could trump him in Light Side knowledge.

Dr McBeefington

Amen.

Darth_Glentract

Top guys in no order:
Sidious
Yoda
Odan-Urr
Revan
Naga Sadow
Freedon Nadd
most other people who survived an extended (centuries) period of time.

Autokrat

If this Sith Emperor guy really is 1400 years old I wonder if he might have amassed a lot of knowledge?

truejedi

Originally posted by Autokrat
Saying that you can't prove Revan learned anything from Malachor V is inane. We know he studied in the cities on the planet, we know that he learned about the True Sith and obviously he learned a lot about the Dark Side since the planet almost ate him. Clearly the knowledge in his holocron had to come from somewhere. No one is trying to specify exactly what he learned (because we can't), but obviously is was impressive.

I personally wouldn't say that Revan plundered everything on Malachor, because that would be ridiculous, considering that the world was a Dark Side nexus of knowledge and Revan had a limited time frame. However, Revan still ranks high in terms knowledge of the Force and Dark Side in general.

Aside from that I'd put Yoda, Sidious and Odan up at the top of the knowledge list. Personally I think it should be split into categories though. Sidious certainly knows more about the Dark Side than either Odan or Yoda combined, but I imagine they could trump him in Light Side knowledge.

I agree with everything here. The main difference between this and the posts from the um.. other person was, you didn't try to claim any of this could be proven. Common sense makes everything you say true, it just can't be proven.

so...

QFT

Dr McBeefington

Originally posted by truejedi
I agree with everything here. The main difference between this and the posts from the um.. other person was, you didn't try to claim any of this could be proven. Common sense makes everything you say true, it just can't be proven.

so...

QFT

Actually, what he said was that trying to prove specifics is inane, which was my argument, but that Revan amassed knowledge from Malachor V, which was also my contention, so you can't really agree with this without contradicting your original stance and finally conceding your argument.

Autokrat

Ok, before anyone else tries to argue on what I said, I will make myself completely clear. To do so I'm going to use a very simple analogy that should make everyone happy.

To start out, lets look at it this way.

FACT - Revan had a holocron full of Sith rituals and Dark Side philosophy. Let's call this fact, number four or "4".

FACT - Revan visited Malachor V and discovered the Dark Side Academy on the world.

FACT - Revan visited Korriban after rediscovering its location on Malachor V.

The latter two fact's we should call number one or "1".

Now, we have: (1 + X = 4).

RATIONAL ASSUMPTION - Revan learned Dark Side lore from Malachor V.

RATIONAL ASSUMPTION - Revan learned Dark Side lore from Korriban.

Let's call those two number three or "3".

Now, we have: (1 + 3 = 4).

It follows a rational process, which is all I am trying to say. I am not specifying exactly what Revan knew, nor am I trying to say that he knew more than any specific character in the mythos. This is my stance, it is clear and precise and I will say nothing more.

And if any of you bring a certain Scottish empiricist into this debate I'll yell at you.

truejedi

Originally posted by Autokrat
Ok, before anyone else tries to argue on what I said, I will make myself completely clear. To do so I'm going to use a very simple analogy that should make everyone happy.

To start out, lets look at it this way.

FACT - Revan had a holocron full of Sith rituals and Dark Side philosophy. Let's call this fact, number four or "4".

FACT - Revan visited Malachor V and discovered the Dark Side Academy on the world.

FACT - Revan visited Korriban after rediscovering its location on Malachor V.

The latter two fact's we should call number one or "1".

Now, we have: (1 + X = 4).

RATIONAL ASSUMPTION - Revan learned Dark Side lore from Malachor V.

RATIONAL ASSUMPTION - Revan learned Dark Side lore from Korriban.

Let's call those two number three or "3".

Now, we have: (1 + 3 = 4).

It follows a rational process, which is all I am trying to say. I am not specifying exactly what Revan knew, nor am I trying to say that he knew more than any specific character in the mythos. This is my stance, it is clear and precise and I will say nothing more.

And if any of you bring a certain Scottish empiricist into this debate I'll yell at you.

And I agreed with that? I realized what you were saying and agreed with it. So did Beefy disagree? I don't generally read him unless someone quotes him, he treats everyone like ****.

I agree with that in its entirety, enough to quote it twice in the same comment. My only problem with DS argument was his trying to prove that he knew more or less than someone simply because there was more knowledge AVAILABLE to him. Especially, when you can't be exactly sure how much WAS available.

But your comment makes perfect sense.