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So Billy (prior to becoming Shazam) dukes it out with Orion.
How does this go? Is it close? Who will drop first?

Originally posted by Luminatus
So Billy (prior to becoming Shazam) dukes it out with Orion.
How does this go? Is it close? Who will drop first?
Orion would beat the crap out of Billy. Far more skilled. And much angrier.

I'd give Captain Marvel the edge in strength, but Orion is far more skilled.

Orion 8/10.

Originally posted by Harbinger
I'd give Captain Marvel the edge in strength, but Orion is far more skilled.

Orion 8/10.
No. Orion is just as Strong As Superman. So how can Captain Marvel be stronger than Orion? That would mean he is stronger than Superman.

Originally posted by fangirl101
No. Orion is just as Strong As Superman. So how can Captain Marvel be stronger than Orion? That would mean he is stronger than Superman. I keep getting confuse on part about Orion being as strong as Superman. Was it something Superman Commented? or it happens more then couple of times due to feats or more comments.

Originally posted by vansonbee
I keep getting confuse on part about Orion being as strong as Superman. Was it something Superman Commented? or it happens more then couple of times due to feats or more comments.
Orion and Superman can never get the drop on each other physically. Orion has to restort to AF to get wins on Superman. And it's been stated a few times as well that they are physical equals.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Orion and Superman can never get the drop on each other physically. Orion has to restort to AF to get wins on Superman. And it's been stated a few times as well that they are physical equals.
The same has be said and on panel proof of Superman and Captain Marvel being physical equals with Magic giving CM the edge in a confrotation.

Originally posted by D-Block
The same has be said and on panel proof of Superman and Captain Marvel being physical equals with Magic giving CM the edge in a confrotation. Orion isn't subject to magic like Superman is. And Orion is the better fighter. So it would stand to reason he would edge out someone with the same level of Strength.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Orion isn't subject to magic like Superman is. And Orion is the better fighter. So it would stand to reason he would edge out someone with the same level of Strength.

When CM hits Orion it would be like Superman hits Orion pure strength. The magic comes to play when CM charges his fist or calls down the lighting IMO. What do you think?

I'd give this to Orion. The reason Superman vs. Captain Marvel is so close is because Billy is brimming with one of Superman's weaknesses.

A weakness that Orion does not share, as far as I know.

Originally posted by Soljer
I'd give this to Orion. The reason Superman vs. Captain Marvel is so close is because Billy is brimming with one of Superman's weaknesses.

A weakness that Orion does not share, as far as I know.

Yup. I think Orion wins, and fairly handily too. I don't think CM is as strong as Orion and he doesn't have Orion's skills.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Yup. I think Orion wins, and fairly handily too. I don't think CM is as strong as Orion and he doesn't have Orion's skills.

I'd say their strength is comparable - they're both right around Superman's level.

Skill? You're absolutely right.

Orion

Since when does skill matter in a slugfest?

Some people slug more skillfully than others...

Originally posted by Luminatus
Since when does skill matter in a slugfest?

It doesn't.

I cannot speak for the poster I was replying to, but I was merely commenting on my own opinion of their relative capabilities. I already said why I feel Orion wins the slugfest.

not that i disagree with the assessment of skills, but what skill feats does Orion have to his name?

Originally posted by Cavalier
not that i disagree with the assessment of skills, but what skill feats does Orion have to his name?
So many. If I posted them all, it could be it's own respect thread.

Originally posted by Cavalier
not that i disagree with the assessment of skills, but what skill feats does Orion have to his name?

Orion for a majority.

More skilled plus he always takes on Superman h2h and never loses.
Billy usually needs his magic to gain an advantage.

Originally posted by Soljer
I'd say their strength is comparable - they're both right around Superman's level.

Skill? You're absolutely right.

It is of course comparable. I just would not give CM the slight edge in strength.

As for skill, when I hear slug fest I just think of a a typical fight. The more skilled fighter will land his punches more precisely and will get hit less often. I didn't think that a slug fest was the two of them just standing there hitting each other as hard as the can until one of them passes out.

I apologize if I am incorrect.

Originally posted by comicfan11
Orion for a majority.

More skilled plus he always takes on Superman h2h and never loses.
Billy usually needs his magic to gain an advantage.

Billy never need his magic to gain an advantage, without it they stalemate, with it he dominates.

Originally posted by carver9
Billy never need his magic to gain an advantage, without it they stalemate, with it he dominates. No he doesn't. Orion can Amp his strikes with his Astro Force, And his Astro force is far more powerful than Billy's magic.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
It is of course comparable. I just would not give CM the slight edge in strength.

As for skill, when I hear slug fest I just think of a a typical fight. The more skilled fighter will land his punches more precisely and will get hit less often. I didn't think that a slug fest was the two of them just standing there hitting each other as hard as the can until one of them passes out.

I apologize if I am incorrect.

Slugfests ignore everything but strength and durability. They, literally, stand and trade punches one for one.

Originally posted by Soljer
Slugfests ignore everything but strength and durability. They, literally, stand and trade punches one for one.

Thanks for the correction.

I have to ask that, what is the point of that? lol Who in their right mind would fight like that?

Orion wins.

Orion.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Thanks for the correction.

I have to ask that, what is the point of that? lol Who in their right mind would fight like that?

No one, of course.

But it's no different than making a thread that's "Flash vs. the Silver Surfer - who would win in a race?"

No one fights by running really fast to a finish line, but if you want to ask who's faster, you operationalize that attribute into a race.

If you want to ask the question "Who is stronger and more durable," you put the characters in a slugfest.

Orion wins. He has an advantage in strength; but more importantly, ferocity.

Not to mention a fight like this would just get him cranked up the more it went on.

Where does this supposed advantage in strength come from?

Originally posted by UniOmni
Where does this supposed advantage in strength come from?

There is no advantage in strength. Half of the people that is posting anything about captain marvel know nothing of him so of course theyre going to think orion is stronger.

Originally posted by Cavalier
Originally posted by fangirl101
So many. If I posted them all, it could be it's own respect thread.

Originally posted by Cavalier
not that i disagree with the assessment of skills, but what skill feats does Orion have to his name?
Few examples of Orion's skills.

Owns Thousands of Thanagarian Warriors
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/Orion/th_Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_130.jpg

Martial Arts style kicks and Super Speed
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/Orion/th_orion16kebbin13.jpg

Takes out an entire Dog Patrol.
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/Orion/th_orion18kebbin07.jpghttp://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/Orion/th_orion18kebbin08.jpg

How's this for hand eye coordination? Catches a bullet and throws it back in the barrel of the gun.
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/Orion/th_orion23kebbin17.jpg

Originally posted by fangirl101
Few examples of Orion's skills.

Owns Thousands of Thanagarian Warriors
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/Orion/th_Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_130.jpg

Martial Arts style kicks and Super Speed
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/Orion/th_orion16kebbin13.jpg

Takes out an entire Dog Patrol.
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/Orion/th_orion18kebbin07.jpghttp://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/Orion/th_orion18kebbin08.jpg

How's this for hand eye coordination? Catches a bullet and throws it back in the barrel of the gun.
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/Orion/th_orion23kebbin17.jpg Where was the skill in the first page? How did he own them... I'm guessing with his blasts, but it had to be h2h...

Two kicks with lines attached?

Is that really skill? Looks like he was just bullrushing, and I know Cap can do that.

What does that have to do with anything here? Cap travels faster than a bullet, Cap hits harder than a bullet, Cap doesn't have detachable parts that can be used to destroy himself, and this is a slugfest. Not to mention that that's not exactly a skill feat... at least not in the way that's relevant to a battle.

Superspeed attacks against Mr. Miracle.
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/Orion/th_orion25kebbin03.jpg

Impersonating Mr. Miracle.
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/Orion/th_orion25kebbin20.jpg

Superspeed martian arts fight with DS.
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/Orion/th_Orion05p08.jpg

Orion is tested in a Martial arts contest against New Genesis's greatest martial arts teacher.
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/New%20Gods/th_jkfw-07-16.jpghttp://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/New%20Gods/th_jkfw-07-17.jpghttp://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/fangirl101_photos/New%20Gods/th_jkfw-07-18.jpg

That should suffice for now. Finding scans and uploading them takes quite a bit of time.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
Where was the skill in the first page? How did he own them... I'm guessing with his blasts, but it had to be h2h...

Two kicks with lines attached?

Is that really skill? Looks like he was just bullrushing, and I know Cap can do that.

What does that have to do with anything here? Cap travels faster than a bullet, Cap hits harder than a bullet, Cap doesn't have detachable parts that can be used to destroy himself, and this is a slugfest. Not to mention that that's not exactly a skill feat... at least not in the way that's relevant to a battle. what ever you say. you think i give a damn what you think? It's the thanagarian army. Not some us army training program. And if you dont' think it takes skill to catch a bullet and then throw it back in the chamber than that is your opinion. . Now. Have a nice night.

Originally posted by fangirl101
what ever you say. you think i give a damn what you think? It's the thanagarian army. Not some us army training program. And if you dont' think it takes skill to catch a bullet and then throw it back in the chamber than that is your opinion. . Now. Have a nice night.

What exactly did you support? The only thing you even began to start supporting, you ended in a saying that I said it... anyway...

I'm merely saying what happened in the scans. I don't understand this response at all, and it seems way too defensive.

Ya, I know that, but you were going to show scans of skill... instead you posted scans of him standing over the army with no indication of what actually happened. It doesn't indicate skill had anything to do with it, and it hardly matters who it was when no skill was shown.

Not at that level, and besides, you ignored how I said it wasn't really relevant to a fight. And of course it's my opinion... what was this sentence supposed to show?

Originally posted by Red Hulk
What exactly did you support? The only thing you even began to start supporting, you ended in a question... anyway...

I'm merely saying what happened in the scans. I don't understand this response at all, and it seems way too defensive.

Ya, I know that, but you were going to show scans of skill... instead you posted scans of him standing over the army with no indication of what actually happened. It doesn't indicate skill had anything to do with it, and it hardly matters who it was when no skill was shown.

Not at that level, and besides, you ignored how I said it wasn't really relevant to a fight. And of course it's my opinion... nice comeback (?).

what ever. you said his scan owning the troop looked like a bull rush. When you obviously didn't look at the scan close enought. he's hitting them in specific areas like a martial artist would. A bull rush is a front on collision. How is he bullrusshing them when they aren't all standing in a line? They are scattered. Orion is also very known to like to duke it out hand to hand. So for him to own the thangarians, who also like to duke it out hand to hand, had to have large amount of skill to kill so many in such a short time.

Originally posted by fangirl101
what ever. you said his scan owning the troop looked like a bull rush. When you obviously didn't look at the scan close enought. he's hitting them in specific areas like a martial artist would. A bull rush is a front on collision. How is he bullrusshing them when they aren't all standing in a line? They are scattered. Orion is also very known to like to duke it out hand to hand. So for him to own the thangarians, who also like to duke it out hand to hand, had to have large amount of skill to kill so many in such a short time. He's hitting them in the face... when they were seemingly a foot away from each other... and he's traveling in a straight line...
Also, that "he's hitting them in specific areas like a martial artist would." line got me. If we take 'specific areas' like we do on the forum (not saying it's real life), then he'd be going for weak spots on the people...

And this proves he went h2h with them... how? Hell, this completely rules out anytime Supes ever used HV, or any other powers, or even the times Orion used his blasts. Fact of the matter is, we don't know what happened, and the mere fact that Orion has his Astro Harness around him... and he could probably take out that many with 2-3 shots of it.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
He's hitting them in the face... when they were seemingly a foot away from each other... and he's traveling in a straight line...
Also, that "he's hitting them in specific areas like a martial artist would." line got me. If we take 'specific areas' like we do on the forum (not saying it's real life), then he'd be going for weak spots on the people...

And this proves he went h2h with them... how? Hell, this completely rules out anytime Supes ever used HV, or any other powers, or even the times Orion used his blasts. Fact of the matter is, we don't know what happened, and the mere fact that Orion has his Astro Harness around him... and he could probably take out that many with 2-3 shots of it. I'm so not caring about this debate right now. How the hell where they standing in a str8 line and yet scattered all over the battle field in the next scan? I see you aren't commenting on the 2nd round of pics. So as it stands, he's very skilled. And I'm having more fun with quan. So excuse me if I don't care to debate with you any further. My point was proven with the 2nd set. Impersonating mr. miracle is something only batman could do right. And I hadn't even begun posting stuff on orion's skills. So let's just say I'm satisfied with what I posted. Sorry if you aren't.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
He's hitting them in the face... when they were seemingly a foot away from each other... and he's traveling in a straight line...
Also, that "he's hitting them in specific areas like a martial artist would." line got me. If we take 'specific areas' like we do on the forum (not saying it's real life), then he'd be going for weak spots on the people...

And this proves he went h2h with them... how? Hell, this completely rules out anytime Supes ever used HV, or any other powers, or even the times Orion used his blasts. Fact of the matter is, we don't know what happened, and the mere fact that Orion has his Astro Harness around him... and he could probably take out that many with 2-3 shots of it.

Originally posted by fangirl101
I'm so not caring about this debate right now. How the hell where they standing in a str8 line and yet scattered all over the battle field in the next scan? I see you aren't commenting on the 2nd round of pics. So as it stands, he's very skilled. And I'm having more fun with quan. So excuse me if I don't care to debate with you any further. My point was proven with the 2nd set. Impersonating mr. miracle is something only batman could do right. And I hadn't even begun posting stuff on orion's skills. So let's just say I'm satisfied with what I posted. Sorry if you aren't. You must be a sick individual if you think this is somehow personal or whatever the hell you're talking about.

They're a foot away from each other in the next scan, and Orion's speed lines show him traveling in a straight line.

I'm not, because you actually showed some skill in the 2nd round of pics... *insert facepalm*
I was only responding to the scans that were there, that didn't show skill at all.

OK.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
You must be a sick individual if you think this is somehow personal or whatever the hell you're talking about.

They're a foot away from each other in the next scan, and Orion's speed lines show him traveling in a straight line.

I'm not, because you actually showed some skill in the 2nd round of pics... *insert facepalm*
I was only responding to the scans that were there, that didn't show skill at all.

OK. what ever. Moving at Superspeed and he hits them all in the same place. showing some method of attack. Guess that isn't skill. yeah. And the guy in the scan says only one person can take out an entire patrol like that. He instantly knew who it was. Lightray is faster than Orion. So he could blitz.

They are far more than a foot away. they are scattered thru out the trees in the scan.

And you also said it doesn't take skill to catch a bulllet and throw it back in the chamber. WTF.

Originally posted by fangirl101
what ever. Moving at Superspeed and he hits them all in the same place. showing some method of attack. Guess that isn't skill. yeah. And the guy in the scan says only one person can take out an entire patrol like that. He instantly knew who it was. Lightray is faster than Orion. So he could blitz.

They are far more than a foot away. they are scattered thru out the trees in the scan.

And you also said it doesn't take skill to catch a bulllet and throw it back in the chamber. WTF. If he was bullrushing, then he would pretty much have to be hitting them in the same place... hell, he could hold his fist out without moving it, and theoretically hit them in the same place. That statement means nothing really, unless you believe that Orion is the only person in DC that can take out the Dog Patrol, and Lightray doesn't have the same power of Orion anyway.

They sure look like a foot away...


You haven't even read what I wrote, have you?
It doesn't take skill relevant to a fight to do that, and catching a bullet and throwing it back in the chamber should be easy for a being of Orion's level anyway.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
If he was bullrushing, then he would pretty much have to be hitting them in the same place... hell, he could hold his fist out without moving it, and theoretically hit them in the same place. That statement means nothing really, unless you believe that Orion is the only person in DC that can take out the Dog Patrol, and Lightray doesn't have the same power of Orion anyway.

They sure look like a foot away...


You haven't even read what I wrote, have you?
It doesn't take skill relevant to a fight to do that, and catching a bullet and throwing it back in the chamber should be easy for a being of Orion's level anyway.
Let's do this slowly. Look at the scan carefully. You are missing all the guys scattered in the trees in the shadows. There are more than you realize. they were not in a str8 line. That's number one. They couldn't have been and fell where they did.

Two. catching a bullet and throwing it back in a chamber shows remarkable reflexes and more importantly, hand eye coordination, and targeting. Very important if you want to land the most blows and have them connect where you want them to.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Let's do this slowly. Look at the scan carefully. You are missing all the guys scattered in the trees in the shadows. There are more than you realize. they were not in a str8 line. That's number one. They couldn't have been and fell where they did.

Two. catching a bullet and throwing it back in a chamber shows remarkable reflexes and more importantly, hand eye coordination, and targeting. Very important if you want to land the most blows and have them connect where you want them to. I'm talking about the five on panel that he was shown to take out that fast (since you were talking about where he hit them). And in the off panelness, what was there, like 10 guys, he could have still been bullrushing and took them out like he did. And what we saw of Orion in that scene was him running straight through guys, IE, Bullrushing.

So... being a baseball player means people can fight? Catch and throw? Also, it's a bullet... Orion should by all means be way faster than a bullet.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
I'm talking about the five on panel that he was shown to take out that fast (since you were talking about where he hit them). And in the off panelness, what was there, like 10 guys, he could have still been bullrushing and took them out like he did. And what we saw of Orion in that scene was him running straight through guys, IE, Bullrushing.

So... being a baseball player means people can fight? Catch and throw? Also, it's a bullet... Orion should by all means be way faster than a bullet. And how much skill does it take to throw a bullet head first into the chamber? how many have done it on panel?

Originally posted by fangirl101
And how much skill does it take to throw a bullet head first into the chamber? how many have done it on panel? 2 and a half.
Anyway, all I know is that it isn't relevant to a fisticuffs match. I could throw the ball over the plate everytime, but it doesn't mean I have great accuracy with my punches.

Everyone that has ever tried in comics... I'm guessing.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
2 and a half.
Anyway, all I know is that it isn't relevant to a fisticuffs match.

Everyone that has ever tried in comics... I'm guessing.
Hand eye coordination and the ability to so swiftly hit such a small target would be very important in a hand to hand fight.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Hand eye coordination and the ability to so swiftly hit such a small target would be very important in a hand to hand fight. If he's throwing something, I agree.

From what I've seen, I have some bad accuracy with my throws, but I can place my punch accurately in a split second, and I've seen the opposite with people around me.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
If he's throwing something, I agree.
He is. His fist.