Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

who wins, both get hammers for standard equip

https://i.postimg.cc/nCtQmHvN/World-Forger-0001.webp

https://i.postimg.cc/0bdKdLnj/10.jpg

Do they get prep time?

nope

LT

The new Storm issue finally showed that LT does get his power and authority directly from TOAA. So if LT has that kind of backing in this fight then he probably wins. It's hard to beat that.

It's like how people used to debate "Spectre w. Logoz".

Originally posted by Infinaut616
The new Storm issue finally showed that LT does get his power and authority directly from TOAA. So if LT has that kind of backing in this fight then he probably wins. It's hard to beat that.

It's like how people used to debate "Spectre w. Logoz".

It also kinda shows TOAA doesn't actually do anything, he just watches and the LT carries out his wishes.

That's how I took it. LT is basically the vessel TOAA's will is carried out through.

Hasn't that always been the case?
https://postimg.cc/YLqjhGqK

Originally posted by LordGod
Hasn't that always been the case?
https://postimg.cc/YLqjhGqK
yeah, that makes TOAA sound super powerful.

The latest issue makes it sound like TOAA super impotent.

Originally posted by LordGod
Hasn't that always been the case?
https://postimg.cc/YLqjhGqK Maybe I guess. But up to this point it was only LT talking about being the representative of TOAA's power. In the new Storm issue we actually saw him act in that position.

Could also be something new to this new 8th cosmos LT for all I know. Just thought it was cool.

Near omnipotent beings and they resort to trial by combat. Lmao.

Lol I agree, but for some reason that has been a long standing tradition with Marvel's abstract beings. Infinity and Oblivion did the same basic thing way back in the 90s Quasar series, with Maelstrom and Quasar as their avatars instead.

Originally posted by carver9
LT

What's LT's best strength and speed feat?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What's LT's best strength and speed feat?


Speed...

His fight took place across all reality...

https://i.ibb.co/FbCpyx1x/Screenshot-20250224-115710.png
image uploader

He moved in an instant...

https://i.ibb.co/JwfhZvF5/Screenshot-20250224-115559.png
image uploader

Strength...

He held earth in his hand with ease...

https://i.ibb.co/qPtQ24j/mC93SHA.jpg
image uploader


What's World Forger best speed and strength fts?

Originally posted by carver9
Speed...

His fight took place across all reality...

https://i.ibb.co/FbCpyx1x/Screenshot-20250224-115710.png
image uploader

He moved in an instant...

https://i.ibb.co/JwfhZvF5/Screenshot-20250224-115559.png
image uploader

Strength...

He held earth in his hand with ease...

https://i.ibb.co/qPtQ24j/mC93SHA.jpg
image uploader


What's World Forger best speed and strength fts?

Lmao your scans don't show him moving on an instance.

It's like saying 'At that very instant...Darksaint posted'.

Means nothing for his speed.

So keep trying.

Holding a planet? Nice. Anything for in battle?

Not sure what fighting across realities means for speed, unless you're saying he's Ares level

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lmao your scans don't show him moving on an instance.

It's like saying 'At that very instant...Darksaint posted'.

Means nothing for his speed.

So keep trying.

Holding a planet? Nice. Anything for in battle?

Not sure what fighting across realities means for speed, unless you're saying he's Ares level

Oh. So the word instant means nothing to you now? I need to come up with another nickname based on how much your brain flip things.

You asked me for a strength ft, I gave you one and now you're asking me for a battle strength ft 🤣? I'll be looking for that nickname sooner than that I thought.

Also, this...


https://i.ibb.co/DPT0CJdV/7788485-1jmljaw.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Oh. So the word instant means nothing to you now? I need to come up with another nickname based on how much your brain flip things.

You asked me for a strength ft, I gave you one and now you're asking me for a battle strength ft 🤣? I'll be looking for that nickname sooner than that I thought.

Also, this...


https://i.ibb.co/DPT0CJdV/7788485-1jmljaw.jpg

Do you not understand basic English?

I literally gave you an example of it being used. At that very instant, I knew you were being an idiot - does that mean I move instantaneously?

Originally posted by Infinaut616
The new Storm issue finally showed that LT does get his power and authority directly from TOAA. So if LT has that kind of backing in this fight then he probably wins. It's hard to beat that.

It's like how people used to debate "Spectre w. Logoz". The difference between Spectre and LT is feats.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Do you not understand basic English?

I literally gave you an example of it being used. At that very instant, I knew you were being an idiot - does that mean I move instantaneously?

Oh, I understand English. I'm just highlighting you're a flipper flopper and you're bad at it.

Lol you obviously just scan pictures and seize on words that fit your narrative, without bothering to actually read the comic.

ds is a flipper-flopper is the only worthwhile thing that will ever come out of this thread.

Originally posted by leonidas
ds is a flipper-flopper is the only worthwhile thing that will ever come out of this thread.

I'll smack you with my flipflops

Originally posted by Juntai
The difference between Spectre and LT is feats. Well, yes. Exactly.

I co-sign this without any irony.

Unless you're suggesting that Spectre exceeds the Living Tribunal in feats? confused69

Originally posted by ODG
Well, yes. Exactly.

I co-sign this without any irony.

Unless you're suggesting that Spectre exceeds the Living Tribunal in feats? confused69
He does.

^ Nobody asked you. Go chase some other KMC poster for 200+ posts across 20+years while being ignored and then come back here, you creepy e-stalker.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Nobody asked you. Go chase some other KMC poster for 200+ posts across 20+years while being ignored and then come back here, you creepy e-stalker.
Shut up and sit down phaggot.

Originally posted by ODG
Well, yes. Exactly.

I co-sign this without any irony.

Unless you're suggesting that Spectre exceeds the Living Tribunal in feats? confused69 It does.

Originally posted by ODG
Shut up and sit down phaggot. Originally posted by Juntai
It does. https://media1.tenor.com/m/FqIBdMxpBTcAAAAd/expand-ford-v-ferrari.gif

Originally posted by ODG
https://media1.tenor.com/m/FqIBdMxpBTcAAAAd/expand-ford-v-ferrari.gif
Quite homophobic of you, tsk, tsk.

^dude stop, galan opened the thread on the condition that you and odg don't get your bullshit into my thread. so take it somewhere else

Originally posted by ODG
https://media1.tenor.com/m/FqIBdMxpBTcAAAAd/expand-ford-v-ferrari.gif Sure. I'll post a feat. Then you post a feat.

We'll start easy;

JLA/Avengers, Spectre saves Marvel and DC continuities and their cosmic representations by pulling them apart and separating them.
https://imgur.com/a/ib2Naol

Originally posted by MrMind
^dude stop, galan opened the thread on the condition that you and odg don't get your bullshit into my thread. so take it somewhere else

Obvious solution is for abhilegend to put me on ignore. I will respect same and not snipe behind the ignore function as my disappointment with such antics is well-documented. Originally posted by Juntai
Sure. I'll post a feat. Then you post a feat.

We'll start easy;

JLA/Avengers, Spectre saves Marvel and DC continuities and their cosmic representations by pulling them apart and separating them.
https://imgur.com/a/ib2Naol So you're treating JLA/Avengers as canon despite KMC rules? That's a complete non-starter towards constructive debate on this forum. And also an ultimate loser if you continue to persist...

But I mean, even if you were insisting... the chronal chaos caused by this Krona merging the universes was already immediately fading once he was defeated. As proven when all the displaced characters were fading away to their respective universes, etc. Which showed that things were already returning to normal.

But if you're that impressed with somebody pushing two universes away from merging when the plot device pushing them together was already defeated, then Cap w/ 616 IG pushed two universes away from merging during the height of systemic multiversal collapse. And Living Tribunal sh@t on Adam Warlock w/ 616 IG in the wake of Infinity Gauntlet:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/9af0167c-0664-4438-bea7-a880174c9b33.jpg

WF

Originally posted by ODG


Obvious solution is for abhilegend to put me on ignore. I will respect same and not snipe behind the ignore function as my disappointment with such antics is well-documented. So you're treating JLA/Avengers as canon despite KMC rules? That's a complete non-starter towards constructive debate on this forum. And also an ultimate loser if you continue to persist...

But I mean, even if you were insisting... the chronal chaos caused by this Krona merging the universes was already immediately fading once he was defeated. As proven when all the displaced characters were fading away to their respective universes, etc. Which showed that things were already returning to normal.

But if you're that impressed with somebody pushing two universes away from merging when the plot device pushing them together was already defeated, then Cap w/ 616 IG pushed two universes away from merging during the height of systemic multiversal collapse. And Living Tribunal sh@t on Adam Warlock w/ 616 IG in the wake of Infinity Gauntlet:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/9af0167c-0664-4438-bea7-a880174c9b33.jpg
No, the characters didn't start fading until Spectre forced the both universes apart.

Infinity Gauntlet literally shattered pushing a universe away lol. Not the feat you want to pick up lol.

The chronal chaos faded but JLA and Avengers reverted back to where they started. The reality was changed when Spectre separated the universes.

https://i.ibb.co/kgpQS9Wb/AP1-Gcz-Or-E1-NAk-Iq-Dg-Xu-Y-z-R0-EZNZMKUCf-Jr-LHe5v-Ddgs-ZZn-CTa-R2-HG8-ALn-TGXiq2-ZZs-NW9ow-Gu3e-R.jpg

Originally posted by ODG
So you're treating JLA/Avengers as canon despite KMC rules? That's a complete non-starter towards constructive debate on this forum.
But the events in that crossover are mentioned in Official Marvel Handbook entries.

Originally posted by zopzop
But the events in that crossover are mentioned in Official Marvel Handbook entries.
It's not like it's the first instance of Spectre separating two universes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It's not like it's the first instance of Spectre separating two universes.
I'm sure but I'm just curious as to why JLA isn't canon and against using in forum debates when it's mentioned in Official Marvel Handbook entries.

Originally posted by zopzop
I'm sure but I'm just curious as to why JLA isn't canon and against using in forum debates when it's mentioned in Official Marvel Handbook entries.

the event itself is canon. as to why it's not canon for this forum you gotta ask the mods. god knows why

Originally posted by MrMind
the event itself is canon. as to why it's not canon for this forum you gotta ask the mods. god knows why
Thor fans were butthurt, so mods banned it.

Yeah, that rule was in place LONG before I was modded.

And don't get me wrong, I get why "no crossovers" is a thing, but using JLA/Avengers as *the* example wasn't Digi's best idea in hindsight. That specific crossover is undoubtedly canon to DC(it acts as a direct precursor for everything that happened to Krona afterward), and even Marvel passively referenced its events in a few Handbooks... Of all the crossovers published, it is actually one of the *most* canon, lol.

Batman said it was conceivable that Cap could beat him, thus it is non-canon fanwank

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, that rule was in place LONG before I was modded.

And don't get me wrong, I get why "no crossovers" is a thing, but using JLA/Avengers as *the* example wasn't Digi's best idea in hindsight. That specific crossover is undoubtedly canon to DC(it acts as a direct precursor for everything that happened to Krona afterward), and even Marvel passively referenced its events in a few Handbooks... Of all the crossovers published, it is actually one of the *most* canon, lol.
Yeah but Thor lost to Superman and that was inconceivable to marvel fans. Hence banned.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah but Thor lost to Superman and that was inconceivable to marvel fans. Hence banned. Yeah when I first arrived here, people thought Superman would definitively lose to basically any high tier in Marvel and anyone that lost to Superman was basically garbage. They really didn't like me pointing out how powerful he and Flash and GL actually were.

Originally posted by Juntai
Yeah when I first arrived here, people thought Superman would definitively lose to basically any high tier in Marvel and anyone that lost to Superman was basically garbage. They really didn't like me pointing out how powerful he and Flash and GL actually were.
Superman vs Silver Surfer was basically Robin vs Hulk before I beat the **** out of pretty much every Surfer fanboy here. Repeatedly.

Is there an actual reason why the JLA & Avengers crossover was black listed here, or is it because the mods didn't want any crossovers being used whatsoever because most of them aren't canon anyway?

Because if it's canon it should be usable, crossover or not.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, that rule was in place LONG before I was modded.

And don't get me wrong, I get why "no crossovers" is a thing, but using JLA/Avengers as *the* example wasn't Digi's best idea in hindsight. That specific crossover is undoubtedly canon to DC(it acts as a direct precursor for everything that happened to Krona afterward), and even Marvel passively referenced its events in a few Handbooks... Of all the crossovers published, it is actually one of the *most* canon, lol.
Pretty sure Digi's example was Marvel vs DC because it was continued from Tron, JLA/Avengers was one of the things that got banned in the Bada/Pr era. Marvel fans were mad about Thor, Galactus, and DC Earth being bigger and DC fans were about Radioactive Man being able to create K-nite that hurts Supes, Photon becoming GL energy, and Ironman blowing Bats out of the water in tech.

It should honestly just be canon IMO.

Originally posted by darthgoober
DC fans were about Radioactive Man being able to create K-nite that hurts Supes, Photon becoming GL energy, and Ironman blowing Bats out of the water in tech.

Lol, that's some revisionist BS right there.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Lol, that's some revisionist BS right there.
Oh God...

What Abhi, what? Is your problem with me saying that they happened in the series or me saying that DC fans were upset about it?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh God...

What Abhi, what? Is your problem with me saying that they happened in the series or me saying that DC fans were upset about it?
Pretty much nobody worth anything among DC fans was upset over the things you mentioned. Marvel fans (you included) were livid over Thor losing to Superman though.

Earliest reference I could find to Radioactive man and Kryptonite was 2005, and JLA/Avengers was already considered non-canon on here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Pretty much nobody worth anything among DC fans was upset over the things you mentioned. Marvel fans (you included) were livid over Thor losing to Superman though.
And you know this how? You joined after I took a hiatus which is after this all went down. It's one thing to say that you saw marvel fans pissed in old threads, it's another to assert that no dc fans were. Do you honestly profess to know the full content of every post on this site ever?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor fans were butthurt, so mods banned it. I remember that.

https://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5841293





obviously it all came back to Supes vs Surfer

Originally posted by darthgoober
And you know this how? You joined after I took a hiatus which is after this all went down. It's one thing to say that you saw marvel fans pissed in old threads, it's another to assert that no dc fans were. Do you honestly profess to know the full content of every post on this site ever?
I used to doomscroll the forum, so yes, I knew almost everything that was posted before I even joined the forum. Originally posted by Chai Latte
I remember that. Originally posted by Smurph
https://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5841293





obviously it all came back to Supes vs Surfer

Gonna use cosmic awareness and detect his weakness and create kryptonite !

Originally posted by Juntai
Gonna use cosmic awareness and detect his weakness and create kryptonite !
Saint Goober said it, must be true.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I used to doomscroll the forum, so yes, I knew almost everything that was posted before I even joined the forum.

Obviously not since you missed stuff like the example Smurph just quoted

Originally posted by abhilegend
Saint Goober said it, must be true.
Do you lash out at those that some find credible because you're pretty much never on the list, or is there more to it than that?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Obviously not since you missed stuff like the example Smurph just quoted
They were minor compared to the furor marvel fans created. Originally posted by darthgoober
Do you lash out at those that some find credible because you're pretty much never on the list, or is there more to it than that?
What is this gibberish? Speak English.

Originally posted by abhilegend
They were minor compared to the furor marvel fans created.
What is this gibberish? Speak English.
I'm sorry Abhi, I forgot who I was talking to. Credibility is a thing people have when their word actually means something.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm sorry Abhi, I forgot who I was talking to. Credibility is a thing people have when their word actually means something.
You literally posted Surfer creating kryptonite/red sun/radion/chronal radiation in pretty much every thread for a decade and then conceded Surfer has never done such a thing in comics.

Credibility? You dare talk to me about credibility?

Here's Darthgoober conceding he made up arguments for something Surfer has never done.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm specifically asking for radiation weakness exploitation if you are not understanding still. Not energy manipulation.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I have no problem saying that such a specific scenario thing hasn't come up before man. You act like I'm dodging a point, I'm not.

https://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=16387696& amp;highlight=Firestorm+SBP+kryptonite+userid%3A13
3437#post16387696

Link for the thread.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You literally posted Surfer creating kryptonite/red sun/radion/chronal radiation in pretty much every thread for a decade and then conceded Surfer has never done such a thing in comics.

Credibility? You dare talk to me about credibility?
Where's the post of me saying that he's actually done that specific thing rather than basically saying he's done something like it and should be able to? I mean under what context could I suggest that Silver Surfer has used Kryptonite against someone in combat in Marvel Comics?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Where's the post of me saying that he's actually done that specific thing rather than basically saying he's done something like it and should be able to? I mean under what context could I suggest that Silver Surfer has used Kryptonite against someone in combat in Marvel Comics?
I asked about any radiation based weakness not just kryptonite, Surfer has fought characters with specific radiation weaknesses (Namor, Doctor Spectrum, Hulk) and he has never used this tactic before. Heck, even Blade has red sun weakness and Surfer never used it on him when they fought.

Blade has a red sun weakness.

https://i.ibb.co/C5NqRZQn/VBz-Vtla7vf-PHo1bx8a-BTGMuw-JLh-B6-VBt9-MUl-RBTmoh-LJ8j-ISr-XLi0f-Qb-GE4-Snmlo9-Ak-G8-Zb-W-Wu5-ER-q.png

Surfer fights with him without using any weakness exploitation.

https://i.ibb.co/JjYRZK1K/X7d-I-D1941p3-Ns-Zd-Ufc1-G2-ZIZW3o-Gs-QIX3-OSVE1am-XLDd-Pt-UKXw3lslv-Ed-Rp5jq-Tlw-FLLr-HGrcz-Gf-Gq3h.jpg https://i.ibb.co/Kz7tPkSf/2-BGmlzn-JFect-Va1-AUm-Z3o-Zf-Ld-EHTY-t3-T-VUo59j6-YPUw-Y3-Whu-q2-L-FFVxq7-UEi-Hz-rdw-ETS4-R8dz-U57r.jpg https://i.ibb.co/Jj26jyqT/6y3-USp-ZDuk-q-p-Ttnes-DYgudqq-Ytk-TVLGz-WFBzr-Q6-F-BLRn-R695-Qj8-Yufz-W-LVm3f-Tf2b0q-DL7j-O0-NPOBt4.jpg

I guess Surfer's cosmic awareness was on fritz that day.

Originally posted by Smurph
https://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5841293





obviously it all came back to Supes vs Surfer
Earliest I could find was 2005:

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
But not cannon

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

https://i.postimg.cc/CZ1049qF/9470786-1000014684.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/3ycTf9X2/9470787-1000014685.jpg

Take that, Cosmic Awareness!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

You see, Goober's Surfer is not beholden to comics, he can do whatever Goober can want.

My favorite among all the weakness exploitation tactics.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So if Surfer started used high levels amounts of temporal energy(perhaps in conjuction with matter manipulation) there's a good chance that it'll wreck havoc on Maj's system shouldn't it? Or did he eventually get over the vulnerability?

Surfer can exploit any weakness of any character because Saint Goober said so.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I asked about any radiation based weakness not just kryptonite, Surfer has fought characters with specific radiation weaknesses (Namor, Doctor Spectrum, Hulk) and he has never used this tactic before. Heck, even Blade has red sun weakness and Surfer never used it on him when they fought.
Are you honestly suggesting that Surfer's never utilized weakness exploitation against the Hulk?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Oh I'm sure Abhi has realized there were DC fans upset about some stuff from the series, but his whole shtick is that he only loses if he actually admits to being wrong. That's why there's no point in folks letting him wind them up.

Living Tribunal, if he is as powerful in this "shared universe" as he is in 616.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Earliest reference I could find to Radioactive man and Kryptonite was 2005, and JLA/Avengers was already considered non-canon on here.
Just spotted this. When did Bada and Pr take over modding cause I'm pretty sure they're the one who made it non canon on the forum.

Hey yeah, I joined the forum in 2006. Thus people were already arguing about it before I even got here and the ruling passed afterwards. Before then Marvel vs DC was the only crossover specifically talked about and barred in the rules. Thanks DS.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Are you honestly suggesting that Surfer's never utilized weakness exploitation against the Hulk?
Draining energy isn't radiation based weakness exploitation you throw around Goober. Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh I'm sure Abhi has realized there were DC fans upset about some stuff from the series, but his whole shtick is that he only loses if he actually admits to being wrong. That's why there's no point in folks letting him wind them up.


Yeah, well Saint Goober can't be wrong at all.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Draining energy isn't radiation based weakness exploitation you throw around Goober.


Yeah, well Saint Goober can't be wrong at all.
Draining radiation isn't radiation based energy exploitation... OK Abhi.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Draining radiation isn't radiation based energy exploitation... OK Abhi.
You are talking about creating kryptonite or red sun radiation and your want to use a feat of Surfer draining gamma radiation out of Hulk to show Surfer can do it?

Are you really this dense? Is Surfer gonna drain kryptonite from Superman by this example?

Originally posted by abhilegend
You are talking about creating kryptonite or red sun radiation and your want to use a feat of Surfer draining gamma radiation out of Hulk to show Surfer can do it?

Are you really this dense? Is Surfer gonna drain kryptonite from Superman by this example?
First thing is first, does draining away radiation count as radiation based weakness exploitation in combat or not?

Originally posted by darthgoober
First thing is first, does draining away radiation count as radiation based weakness exploitation in combat or not?
No. It's called energy draining and that is not even close to creating kryptonite or red sun radiation as you claim. A similar thing would be creating gamma rays to turn hulk back into Banner which Captain Marvel tried.

https://i.ibb.co/MDFHKqVf/i-ZMEI8-AVGw-ZFq-D-pcqz8-Ul3ciu-GRej-F15-j-W7fzf9c-HWeewfv-Bc-Xd-Vxu0jc-B-CRYD-tfxr8x9-Eg5-JKy8-Jr-R.jpg https://i.ibb.co/p6G6ZVkP/rw-AQo-Xij0-BHERZV9-tc-Vh-Bz-DLwnnmx-DUZ1d-NPPn-Lx6nek-S-YTP1-NFgh-Ky-YB1-Gg-Hf-M7zi1do-PZl-Sirhja6.jpg

Bombarding Hulk with gamma rays would be radiation based weakness exploitation.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No. It's called energy draining and that is not even close to creating kryptonite or red sun radiation as you claim. A similar thing would be creating gamma rays to turn hulk back into Banner which Captain Marvel tried.

https://i.ibb.co/MDFHKqVf/i-ZMEI8-AVGw-ZFq-D-pcqz8-Ul3ciu-GRej-F15-j-W7fzf9c-HWeewfv-Bc-Xd-Vxu0jc-B-CRYD-tfxr8x9-Eg5-JKy8-Jr-R.jpg https://i.ibb.co/p6G6ZVkP/rw-AQo-Xij0-BHERZV9-tc-Vh-Bz-DLwnnmx-DUZ1d-NPPn-Lx6nek-S-YTP1-NFgh-Ky-YB1-Gg-Hf-M7zi1do-PZl-Sirhja6.jpg

Bombarding Hulk with gamma rays would be radiation based weakness exploitation.
Ok that pretty much proves what I was saying to DS, no need to derail through thread further. I hope you find whatever is missing from your life man.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok that pretty much proves what I was saying to DS, no need to derail through thread further. I hope you find whatever is missing from your life man.


Typical saint Goober, flee little man, flee.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, the characters didn't start fading until Spectre forced the both universes apart. It's possible I misremembered the sequence of events during JLA/Avengers which is banned from discussion here on KMC. But go ahead and identify the first page where we see Spectre forcing the universes apart. Then identify the first page(s) where all the displaced characters were beginning to fade away to their respective universes.

It's not crucial to my overall position but we might as well definitively resolve any such ancillary arguments (that are in violation of KMC rules) because, yknow, you would be upset that we didn't, yea? Originally posted by abhilegend
Infinity Gauntlet literally shattered pushing a universe away lol. Not the feat you want to pick up lol. Is the Infinity Gauntlet in this vs. thread? Re-read the thread OP and re-read what I actually posted.

I mean, it's arguable that Living Tribunal's casual *snap* >>>>>> 616 IG =/= pushing two universes away due to systemic Multiversal collapse =/= Spectre pushing two universes away after they've already started separating.

But exploring any such comparison requires us both to recognize KMC rules. And even if we both agree to arbitrarily disregard them, it requires us both to recognize what actually happened during JLA/Avengers. One step at a time, as it were. Originally posted by abhilegend
It's not like it's the first instance of Spectre separating two universes. https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/ab2f2c6d-7203-4e82-b31d-912d6e21fc37.gif

Why you cannot focus on that is beyond me. Because that would be undeniably constructive and not against KMC forum rules. But, whatever. We have to tediously dismantle everything that violates KMC rules before we get to the actual meat of any constructive argument here.

Proceed.

No

?????

I'll narrow down my tl;dr post to simply asking you to identify the first page where we see Spectre forcing the universes apart. Then identify the first page(s) where all the displaced characters were beginning to fade away to their respective universes.

If you aren't interested in discussing this any longer, fair enough. No snark/sarcasm.

Originally posted by ODG
?????

I'll narrow down my tl;dr post to simply asking you to identify the first page where we see Spectre forcing the universes apart. Then identify the first page(s) where all the displaced characters were beginning to fade away to their respective universes.

If you aren't interested in discussing this any longer, fair enough. No snark/sarcasm.
The heroes faded away because of the chronal chaos fading as explained in the comic.

https://i.ibb.co/DDF1QwRS/AP1-Gcz-Or-E1-NAk-Iq-Dg-Xu-Y-z-R0-EZNZMKUCf-Jr-LHe5v-Ddgs-ZZn-CTa-R2-HG8-ALn-TGXiq2-ZZs-NW9ow-Gu3e-R.jpg

The chronal chaos wasn't done by Krona.

https://i.ibb.co/XxqPn0HM/AP1-Gcz-NOr-Pcpu-TZj-Xv3-P0-evc05nzr8-QHREX6-YLCl6w8-Cd-KATLky-Ev73wdf-Njch-Pl4-Qm8-z9xy62mwo-VZwu-O.jpg

Moreover Eternity/Kismet were imprisoned by Krona.

https://i.ibb.co/84xMYDpm/AP1-Gcz-PAzjmx4b-YIn-K-Zp-4n-VNc8-L4-Xgifu7-Lplr1-Vf-Jg-Iv-U89-Nitt-DUv-GZVE4-UR0c1f-Ye-Xuq-Tipa-B28.jpg

The heroes had to transport themselves back to their respective universes (nobody faded back to their reality) AFTER Spectre forcefully separated Eternity and Kismet.

https://i.ibb.co/W4phT4jK/AP1-Gcz-N6lq-Lsgef-Cw-Nz-S8-Fxd3-Gdy-G4-PUZJgq-HANlq-Fc-Sq5d3n-Dg-Llj-Dw-EBBy25-YZm-2iz-IRk-Er-Ou5ev.jpg https://i.ibb.co/mrc5kr5L/AP1-Gcz-P2g0-Re-IGg1b0-Xr2-UXb5-D0-SZG8c-GILDMl-BJcfk2h-DKFLg-RQKUPek-Uqx-Ua-W1-ZM0d-D7-KHXoj-G-Wxj.jpg https://i.ibb.co/n88cCgXT/AP1-Gcz-Nk-DKNwcq4-K0fec-Kuj-T3-AB-1-Nwr-lcmzhrsr-Vv-JPb-B4-Mo-XXQYQDng-Ej9-UCh8n23-HPAAn7-BEOdk-OOn.jpg

This is straightforward storytelling, are you still confused? The scene was a direct homage to Spectre separating universes as confirmed by the writer in the complete omnibus of the comic.

https://i.ibb.co/twqH0G3s/Screenshot-2025-03-29-12-48-18-28-e2a3683e390b5c2c556b3f8035076595.jpg

If you still can't grasp something like this, it's on you, not the comic.

I'll narrow down my tl;dr post to simply asking you to identify the first page where we see Spectre forcing the universes apart. Then identify the first page(s) where all the displaced characters were beginning to fade away to their respective universes. Originally posted by abhilegend
No, the characters didn't start fading until Spectre forced the both universes Were you right or wrong on this???? You have all the scans apparently, so just tell me the pages.

Your backhanded insults which are apparently meant to deflect from responding directly to my honest question do not amount to constructive discussion.

If you aren't interested in discussing this any longer in a constructive manner, fair enough. No snark/sarcasm.

Originally posted by ODG

At this point, I assume you wilfully ignore the obvious.

Please just identify the first page where we see Spectre forcing the universes apart. Then identify the first page(s) where all the displaced characters were beginning to fade away to their respective universes. Originally posted by abhilegend
No, the characters didn't start fading until Spectre forced the both universes Were you right or wrong on this???? You have all the scans apparently, so just tell me the pages.

Originally posted by ODG
Please just identify the first page where we see Spectre forcing the universes apart. Then identify the first page(s) where all the displaced characters were beginning to fade away to their respective universes. Were you right or wrong on this???? You have all the scans apparently, so just tell me the pages.
We saw the characters brought from chronal chaos fading which wasn't the doing of Krona.

I straight up posted all the scans, are you just going to repeat this nonsense?

The merging of the two universes was different from chronal chaos if you can't read.

Please just identify the first page where we see Spectre forcing the universes apart.

Then identify the first page(s) where all the displaced characters were beginning to fade away to their respective universes.

You have all the scans apparently, so just tell me the pages.

This will resolve your initial retort to me: Originally posted by abhilegend
the characters didn't start fading until Spectre forced the both universes answer whether Then we can move on.

Originally posted by ODG
Please just identify the first page where we see Spectre forcing the universes apart.

Then identify the first page(s) where all the displaced characters were beginning to fade away to their respective universes.

You have all the scans apparently, so just tell me the pages.

This will resolve your initial retort to me: Then we can move on.
Straight up nonsense now? Anyway here's Spectre forcing the universes apart.

https://ibb.co/W4phT4jK

Two pages later, JLA and Avengers themselves transport each other to their universes.

https://ibb.co/n88cCgXT

The chronal chaos brought characters AFTER the universes were merged and those characters faded away BEFORE Spectre forced the universes were separated.

^ What garbage image hosting site is that? It's been whole minutes and they still haven't loaded.

Either way, you insisted the "characters didn't start fading until Spectre forced the both universes.." I kept needling you to post the actual pages.

The heroes started fading away as soon as Krona's machine was destroyed by Hawkeye:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/df041a59-6e44-4ba0-8ee9-921c2c087180.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/c5009eda-d19e-454b-bc05-db480e3cbaa4.jpg

Only afterwards did Hal Spectre force the universes apart:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/dc1eaffe-0699-48e3-8f74-19e690e90d73.jpg

So I guess you were just lying. Given that you were scanning pages of the very same comic concurrently with me to some sh1t image-hosting site. You were lying about comics that you must've known I could easily access. Not surprised.

Why did you feel compelled to lie about a simple sequence of events in a comic that we both can read? Did you hope I wouldn't have access to the comic itself? What is the point of you?

You've lost all shame. You've lost all credibility. But while that may be important to any typical KMC poster who wants to constructively discuss comics, it's inconsequential to you.

Because it seems your entire existence here on KMC is to demand attention of your own warped sensibilities. You're ironically succeeding in that but likely not the way you want. Because you keep protesting and acting dismayed when KMC continually points out how worthlessly cringe you are.

That's your fault. Nuff said.

The chronal stuff is separate from the separation of the universes.

Characters that didnt exist anymore were appearing in that storyline, or some characters were changing to older variations or just older versions appearing as well. All of that was fixing.

But, characters went back to their universe after Hal split them.


e.g; Hal Jordan Green Lantern was fighting alongside them. Then Hal Jordan The Spectre showed up.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The merging of the two universes was different from chronal chaos if you can't read.

Originally posted by ODG
^ What garbage image hosting site is that? It's been whole minutes and they still haven't loaded.

Either way, you insisted the "characters didn't start fading until Spectre forced the both universes.." I kept needling you to post the actual pages.

The heroes started fading away as soon as Krona's machine was destroyed by Hawkeye:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/df041a59-6e44-4ba0-8ee9-921c2c087180.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/c5009eda-d19e-454b-bc05-db480e3cbaa4.jpg
Those were brought by chronal chaos, you absolute ****ing retard.

https://i.ibb.co/b5kV4wtD/AP1-Gcz-NOr-Pcpu-TZj-Xv3-P0-evc05nzr8-QHREX6-YLCl6w8-Cd-KATLky-Ev73wdf-Njch-Pl4-Qm8-z9xy62mwo-VZwu-O.jpg

When the chaos faded, so were they. But the universes remain merged which were separated by the Spectre. Originally posted by ODG
Only afterwards did Hal Spectre force the universes apart:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/dc1eaffe-0699-48e3-8f74-19e690e90d73.jpg

So I guess you were just lying. Given that you were scanning pages of the very same comic concurrently with me to some sh1t image-hosting site. You were lying about comics that you must've known I could easily access. Not surprised.

Why did you feel compelled to lie about a simple sequence of events in a comic that we both can read? Did you hope I wouldn't have access to the comic itself? What is the point of you?

You've lost all shame. You've lost all credibility. But while that may be important to any typical KMC poster who wants to constructively discuss comics, it's inconsequential to you.

Because it seems your entire existence here on KMC is to demand attention of your own warped sensibilities. You're ironically succeeding in that but likely not the way you want. Because you keep protesting and acting dismayed when KMC continually points out how worthlessly cringe you are.

That's your fault. Nuff said.


Are you dyslexic? I'm genuinely asking, because otherwise you're the biggest retard I have ever seen.

World Forger becomes the fourth face of LT

Originally posted by Thinkerer
World Forger becomes the fourth face of LT
LT isn't higher in cosmology.

high end spectre would fuk LT up, based on actually having feats

Originally posted by abhilegend
LT isn't higher in cosmology.

Only thing above LT is the OOA. How is he not higher?

this should be fun....

Originally posted by Thinkerer
Only thing above LT is the OOA. How is he not higher?

The....One Over All?

Originally posted by Thinkerer
World Forger becomes the fourth face of LT

I agree. Easy fight for LT tbh. Even at part of his power, WF got whipped by a planet being thrown at him. Imagine LT even at part of his power being dropped by something like this. Heck, an amped WF got koed by an exploding car.

Originally posted by Thinkerer
Only thing above LT is the OOA. How is he not higher?
Other characters are above LT too. He lacks feats as well.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree. Easy fight for LT tbh. Even at part of his power, WF got whipped by a planet being thrown at him. Imagine LT even at part of his power being dropped by something like this. Heck, an amped WF got koed by an exploding car.
LT killer Logos was defeated by Black Panther, a human.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Other characters are above LT too. He lacks feats as well.

i assume he means in terms of hierarchy....out right power could maybe be debated.

Originally posted by leonidas
i assume he means in terms of hierarchy....out right power could maybe be debated.
Both power and hierarchy.

Lobo is also multiversal, FYI...

https://i.postimg.cc/fyrY88RX/RCO002-1466354573.jpg

Don't see anyone giving him his dues

So basically, Lobo still don't do logical... Except now he don't do logical on a Multiversal scale. Nice.

Here you are

https://i.postimg.cc/MHTy0Cqq/RCO003-1466354573.jpg

Based off fts, Spectre would work WF as well.

I would say LT judgement got overruled by Korvac.
He had to team with Order and Chaos and Stranger and the other cosmic just to fight Galactus in MC2, and his judgement was overruled by Reed Richards whipping a gun together.

Name what he has done.

Who, World Forger?

No, LT

🤦🏿🤦🏿... LT knocking out Oblivion is better than anything World Forger has done. Got scans of WF creating Barbatos and the Universes and Multiverses? Heck, Batman even used the room of Forger to move suns close to Superman. Also, WF needed everything aligned, the hammer lit, anvil, Superman absent and Mxy involvement as well in order to attempt to create his perfect multiverse. Maybe you have scans of him creating these things though. I'll wait.

Also, Forger mother was more powerful than WF and she taxed herself deatroying a Universe and again, during this instance, she was more powerful.

Also, if WF is omnipotent, why didn't he know Batman was going to betray him?

Originally posted by Stoic
while the Tribunal is the lawyer of the current edition. The whatnow?

The lawyer of the current edition

Originally posted by carver9
🤦🏿🤦🏿... LT knocking out Oblivion is better than anything World Forger has done. Got scans of WF creating Barbatos and the Universes and Multiverses? Heck, Batman even used the room of Forger to move suns close to Superman. Also, WF needed everything aligned, the hammer lit, anvil, Superman absent and Mxy involvement as well in order to attempt to create his perfect multiverse. Maybe you have scans of him creating these things though. I'll wait. Originally posted by carver9
Also, Forger mother was more powerful than WF and she taxed herself deatroying a Universe and again, during this instance, she was more powerful. Originally posted by carver9
Also, if WF is omnipotent, why didn't he know Batman was going to betray him?


Carver's mind is the biggest mystery of all.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The lawyer of the current edition

which law school did he go to?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The lawyer of the current edition Ah.

who's more powerful aside, if we're talking pure hierarchy lt is closer to the top than wf is though.

Originally posted by Juntai
The chronal stuff is separate from the separation of the universes. Oh really? This is the hill you are planting your flag on? Originally posted by Juntai
Characters that didnt exist anymore were appearing in that storyline, or some characters were changing to older variations or just older versions appearing as well. All of that was fixing. Please don't be an incomparable moron. You are better than this. This "chronal mixing" that had characters who were changing to older variations or just older versions spontaneously was accelerating up until Hawkeye destroyed Krona's machine. Originally posted by Juntai
But, characters went back to their universe after Hal split them. Actually, the first instance that characters went back to their universes happened directly after Hawkeye destroyed Krona's machine and before Hal Spectre split the universes. Originally posted by Juntai
e.g; Hal Jordan Green Lantern was fighting alongside them. Then Hal Jordan The Spectre showed up. Agreed, GL Hal was actively fighting on-panel. Hal Spectre, however, only showed up once Krona's machine was destroyed. So what are you complaining about?

Just say that you're retarded and can't read and we'll accept you, no need to be this dramatic.

^ That;s entirely on you, pal. Originally posted by abhilegend
No, the characters didn't start fading until Spectre forced the both universes Well, that's undeniably wrong given both of us posted the scans. But in case you're trying to fool anybody:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/df041a59-6e44-4ba0-8ee9-921c2c087180.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/c5009eda-d19e-454b-bc05-db480e3cbaa4.jpg

Instead of just owning up to your own falsehood, you've resorted to dragging down the entire thread with trollery in the hopes that it will be shut down to cover up your own abject bullsh1t.

Not my first rodeo, pal.

Originally posted by ODG
^ That;s entirely on you, pal. Well, that's undeniably wrong given both of us posted the scans. But in case you're trying to fool anybody:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/df041a59-6e44-4ba0-8ee9-921c2c087180.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/c5009eda-d19e-454b-bc05-db480e3cbaa4.jpg

Instead of just owning up to your own falsehood, you've resorted to dragging down the entire thread with trollery in the hopes that it will be shut down to cover up your own abject bullsh1t.

Not my first rodeo, pal.
Yawn, I already eviscerated your retarded take.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The heroes faded away because of the chronal chaos fading as explained in the comic.

https://i.ibb.co/DDF1QwRS/AP1-Gcz-Or-E1-NAk-Iq-Dg-Xu-Y-z-R0-EZNZMKUCf-Jr-LHe5v-Ddgs-ZZn-CTa-R2-HG8-ALn-TGXiq2-ZZs-NW9ow-Gu3e-R.jpg

The chronal chaos wasn't done by Krona.

https://i.ibb.co/XxqPn0HM/AP1-Gcz-NOr-Pcpu-TZj-Xv3-P0-evc05nzr8-QHREX6-YLCl6w8-Cd-KATLky-Ev73wdf-Njch-Pl4-Qm8-z9xy62mwo-VZwu-O.jpg

Moreover Eternity/Kismet were imprisoned by Krona.

https://i.ibb.co/84xMYDpm/AP1-Gcz-PAzjmx4b-YIn-K-Zp-4n-VNc8-L4-Xgifu7-Lplr1-Vf-Jg-Iv-U89-Nitt-DUv-GZVE4-UR0c1f-Ye-Xuq-Tipa-B28.jpg

The heroes had to transport themselves back to their respective universes (nobody faded back to their reality) AFTER Spectre forcefully separated Eternity and Kismet.

https://i.ibb.co/W4phT4jK/AP1-Gcz-N6lq-Lsgef-Cw-Nz-S8-Fxd3-Gdy-G4-PUZJgq-HANlq-Fc-Sq5d3n-Dg-Llj-Dw-EBBy25-YZm-2iz-IRk-Er-Ou5ev.jpg https://i.ibb.co/mrc5kr5L/AP1-Gcz-P2g0-Re-IGg1b0-Xr2-UXb5-D0-SZG8c-GILDMl-BJcfk2h-DKFLg-RQKUPek-Uqx-Ua-W1-ZM0d-D7-KHXoj-G-Wxj.jpg https://i.ibb.co/n88cCgXT/AP1-Gcz-Nk-DKNwcq4-K0fec-Kuj-T3-AB-1-Nwr-lcmzhrsr-Vv-JPb-B4-Mo-XXQYQDng-Ej9-UCh8n23-HPAAn7-BEOdk-OOn.jpg

This is straightforward storytelling, are you still confused? The scene was a direct homage to Spectre separating universes as confirmed by the writer in the complete omnibus of the comic.

https://i.ibb.co/twqH0G3s/Screenshot-2025-03-29-12-48-18-28-e2a3683e390b5c2c556b3f8035076595.jpg

If you still can't grasp something like this, it's on you, not the comic.

Just say you're autistic and nobody is going to blame you.

^ Your repetitive antics only serve to underscore how you've completely cornered yourself. Anybody that actually reads the comic can see the page-by-page progression:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/df041a59-6e44-4ba0-8ee9-921c2c087180.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/c5009eda-d19e-454b-bc05-db480e3cbaa4.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/dc1eaffe-0699-48e3-8f74-19e690e90d73.jpg

You post scans out of order in the hope of saving face. But for who? Only morons who have never read the comics or have no access to them. Because you and I and anybody else with access to these comics, knows you are misrepresenting the sequence of events.

So utterly b1tchmade...

Originally posted by ODG
^ Your repetitive antics only serve to underscore how you've completely cornered yourself. Anybody that actually reads the comic can see the page-by-page progression:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/df041a59-6e44-4ba0-8ee9-921c2c087180.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/c5009eda-d19e-454b-bc05-db480e3cbaa4.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/c2ff727d-f6c8-4ae8-b3f1-2b73f185b92b/dc1eaffe-0699-48e3-8f74-19e690e90d73.jpg

You post scans out of order in the hope of saving face. But for who? Only morons who have never read the comics or have no access to them. Because you and I and anybody else with access to these comics, knows you are misrepresenting the sequence of events.

So utterly b1tchmade...
I literally posted all pages in order, just because you are autistic doesn't mean everyone is.

You have nothing but autism on your side.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, the characters didn't start fading until Spectre forced the both universes apart. This was a lie. Simple. Complete. Utter.

And despite being called out on it, you keep prevaricating and moving the goalposts.

You were wrong. It's as simple as that. And with my initial comparison of the 616 IG and LT, this fact pattern is entirely cogent, if not determinative... but for your own arbitrary butthurt.

When you are called out on your own self-inflicted bs, maybe just run away. Doubling down on it as if you never peddled such only serves to undermine your already flimsy/non-existent reputation.

Yes, Clint disappeared, because randomly he appeared a few pages before that. He was NOT part of the team of the final assault.
https://imgur.com/a/x5g9FeU

Wanda disappeared and he was there instead. It was quite literally the scene where they're describing the fluctuations altering the teams, the rosters, the costumes, etc.
https://imgur.com/a/EmSIShW


The rest of it fixed when Spectre pulled the universes apart.


Are you done confirming to everyone you can't read yet?

obviously Juntai is right and ODG is wrong

Originally posted by ODG
This was a lie. Simple. Complete. Utter.

And despite being called out on it, you keep prevaricating and moving the goalposts.

You were wrong. It's as simple as that. And with my initial comparison of the 616 IG and LT, this fact pattern is entirely cogent, if not determinative... but for your own arbitrary butthurt.

When you are called out on your own self-inflicted bs, maybe just run away. Doubling down on it as if you never peddled such only serves to undermine your already flimsy/non-existent reputation.
If only you could read.