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Setting: The Number 42 Prison
Bloodlust: Dose it matter?

Isn't Doomsday always bloodlusted???

I say stalemate. DD can't destroy or damage the armor, but I doubt even the Destroyers Disintigration Beam will do much to DD.

I don't think the armor is too much more durable than Supes, several times more at most. DD's claw shot went through Superman like liquid. So I definitely believe DD can manage to damage the armor (or evolve to).

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't think the armor is too much more durable than Supes, several times more at most. DD's claw shot went through Superman like liquid. So I definitely believe DD can manage to damage the armor (or evolve to). profiled

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't think the armor is too much more durable than Supes, several times more at most. DD's claw shot went through Superman like liquid. So I definitely believe DD can manage to damage the armor (or evolve to).

It took Thor's power boosted with the Thorforce to take the damn thing down. DD ain't doin it.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't think the armor is too much more durable than Supes, several times more at most. DD's claw shot went through Superman like liquid. So I definitely believe DD can manage to damage the armor (or evolve to).


Such a Nob!



Destroyer Armor is more durable than Superman, The Asgardian Armor is impregnable, it took 4 host Celestial too turn the Armor into slag, DD doesn't have much power too damage the Destroyer, strength can only take you so far. Asgardian Destroyer is too versatile for DD, AD in stomp.

Destroyer ftw

Destroyer Armor pounds him down or uses something like his transmutation powers.

Seriously, it might not be used at all now, but besides his disintegration beam, his matter manipulation powers are rather uber.

Seriously, a single blast from it's hands cut through Mjolnir like butter.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't think the armor is too much more durable than Supes, several times more at most. DD's claw shot went through Superman like liquid. So I definitely believe DD can manage to damage the armor (or evolve to).

I forgot about those, thanks for the reminder, yeah, ADA takes it, probably turns Doomsday into a rubber ducky or something.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't think the armor is too much more durable than Supes, several times more at most. DD's claw shot went through Superman like liquid. So I definitely believe DD can manage to damage the armor (or evolve to). whats next? DD vs Trion Juggernaut?...

Originally posted by the Darkone
Such a Nob!



Destroyer Armor is more durable than Superman, The Asgardian Armor is impregnable, it took 4 host Celestial too turn the Armor into slag, DD doesn't have much power too damage the Destroyer, strength can only take you so far. Asgardian Destroyer is too versatile for DD, AD in stomp.

Energy durability has nothing to do with blunt force durability. Now I may accept that the Destroyer is more durable than Superman but I will not accept that it is a lot more durable than him. If DD shot went through Superman like liquid then DD definitely can damage the Destroyer Armor. Superman is equal or more durable than adamantium.

Also DD can not be harmed by any attack made by the Destroyer. The OE >>> Destroyer beams. DD also evolves on the fly just in case you guys think Destroyer can harm DD.

Originally posted by h1a8
Energy durability has nothing to do with blunt force durability. Now I may accept that the Destroyer is more durable than Superman but I will not accept that it is a lot more durable than him. If DD shot went through Superman like liquid then DD definitely can damage the Destroyer Armor. Superman is equal or more durable than adamantium.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
profiled

Wow dude, seriously, Superman is on par with Adamantium???

And the Omega Beam is higher than the Destroyer's beams?? Disintigration I'll give you, but the Destroyer does have vast transmutation powers, which could seriously f*ck up DD's day.

And while he does evolve on the fly for little stuff, like his ears closing up against the sonic gun, things like transmutation and disintegration he can't defend against, and won't reform for a while afterward.

Originally posted by KingD19
Wow dude, seriously, Superman is on par with Adamantium???

And the Omega Beam is higher than the Destroyer's beams?? Disintigration I'll give you, but the Destroyer does have vast transmutation powers, which could seriously f*ck up DD's day.

And while he does evolve on the fly for little stuff, like his ears closing up against the sonic gun, things like transmutation and disintegration he can't defend against, and won't reform for a while afterward.

Did you ever read anything on DD? I doubt that you did since you think any energy blast under a universal being would even put a scratch on him. Thor who is far less durable than Supes in which who is less durable than DD has resisted the Destroyer's disintegration beams. The OE is greater and has vast transmutation powers too. He can turn Daxamites into soap (beings who have the same durability as Supes himself). The reason Superman survive the OE is because the source finds him essential. It has been noted that a few beings are key to the stability of reality are immune to the Omega Effect.

As far as Superman been as durable as adamantium or greater is proven by him resisting high level disintegrating beams himself and Superman writers writing that he can easily resist adamantium cutting beams in a crossover.

Crossovers = Non Canon

I would replay to the rest, but I'm lazy and tired, I'll let someone else do it later.

Originally posted by h1a8
Did you ever read anything on DD? I doubt that you did since you think any energy blast under a universal being would even put a scratch on him. Thor who is far less durable than Supes in which who is less durable than DD has resisted the Destroyer's disintegration beams. The OE is greater and has vast transmutation powers too. He can turn Daxamites into soap (beings who have the same durability as Supes himself). The reason Superman survive the OE is because the source finds him essential. It has been noted that a few beings are key to the stability of reality are immune to the Omega Effect.

As far as Superman been as durable as adamantium or greater is proven by him resisting high level disintegrating beams himself and Superman writers writing that he can easily resist adamantium cutting beams in a crossover.

Wait werent HV beams affecting him? Also where was it stated that only a universal being could put a scratch on him? Even in the comics u claim to have read u still manage to fabricate nonsense. Also and it was thor with the Odin force that resisted the desintegration beam not regular thor. The destroyers beam has oneshotted regular thor on previous occasion.

Also ur ridiculousness is further shown when u try to use a non-canon crossover to describe superman as being more durable than admantium.lol. Just stop debating comics, u clearly have not read many and simply make a fool of urself everytime u do.facepalm

THank you, I was too lazy to do that.

Destroyer

doomsday has tanked the omega beams AND the astro force, without so much as a scratch to show for it. nothing i've seen leads me to believe the destroyer's energy-based powers are > the aforementioned
---
furthermore, doomsday shredded through numerous imperiex probes like they were cheap fodder:

http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2249680_dd1.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2249681_dd2.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2249682_dd3.jpg

i highly doubt punches on THAT level would just be shrugged off by the destroyer. none

Originally posted by Galan007
doomsday has tanked the omega beams AND the astro force, without so much as a scratch to show for it. nothing i've seen leads me to believe the destroyer's energy-based powers are > the aforementioned
---
furthermore, doomsday shredded through numerous imperiex probes like they were cheap fodder:

http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2249680_dd1.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2249681_dd2.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2249682_dd3.jpg

i highly doubt punches on THAT level would just be shrugged off by the destroyer. none

FANBOY NOOB!!!

^ wiggle

stalemate

DD cant hurt destroyer
and even IF destroyer beam hurts DD he can regenerate (this HP DD right?) maybe even adapt

Originally posted by Galan007
doomsday has tanked the omega beams AND the astro force, without so much as a scratch to show for it. nothing i've seen leads me to believe the destroyer's energy-based powers are > the aforementioned
---
furthermore, doomsday shredded through numerous imperiex probes like they were cheap fodder:

http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2249680_dd1.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2249681_dd2.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/2249682_dd3.jpg

i highly doubt punches on THAT level would just be shrugged off by the destroyer. none


Ok. first of all dont darkseids Omega beams vary in power output (i.e can he control how powerful he makes it)? I mean i remember superman taking it with little damage and i think cyborg superman has taken it as well. If so then while doomsday taking it is no doubt impressive, its not something that puts him beyond the range of the destroyers disintegrator beam which has shown to be able to kill and oneshot people with durability on the level of thor (i.e around the same level as superman). Also its regular blasts have even shown to be able to tear through mjolnir (a metal equal to primary adamantium) easily.

Further i also seem to remember supermans using his HV and icebreath to blow holes through the imperiex probes as well as physically dominating them. Therefore r u really suggesting that the entropy aegis armour is of comparable toughness to the impriex probes that both superman and doomsday were destroying? Seriously?. Anyhow, The Asgarsdian destroyer has shrugged off without any damage the best blows and attacks from hercules and all out thor, (who is definitely of comparable strength to Superman and with mjolnir has >>>striking power and blast ability),Desak the godslayer, as well as the entire army of Asgard+thor,combined attack of avengers etc.

I highly doubt that superman level blows will be able to damage it when greater attacks have failed.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Ok. first of all dont darkseids Omega beams vary in power output (i.e can he control how powerful he makes it)? I mean i remember superman taking it with little damage and i think cyborg superman has taken it as well. If so then while doomsday taking it is no doubt impressive, its not something that puts him beyond the range of the destroyers disintegrator beam which has shown to be able to kill and oneshot people with durability on the level of thor (i.e around the same level as superman). Also its regular blasts have even shown to be able to tear through mjolnir (a metal equal to primary adamantium) easily.

Further i also seem to remember supermans using his HV and icebreath to blow holes through the imperiex probes as well as physically dominating them. Therefore r u really suggesting that the entropy aegis armour is of comparable toughness to the impriex probes that both superman and doomsday were destroying? Seriously?. Anyhow, The Asgarsdian destroyer has shrugged off without any damage the best blows and attacks from hercules and all out thor, (who is definitely of comparable strength to Superman and with mjolnir has >>>striking power and blast ability),Desak the godslayer, as well as the entire army of Asgard+thor,combined attack of avengers etc.

I highly doubt that superman level blows will be able to damage it when greater attacks have failed. heh, i love how you completely ignore doomsday having also tanked the astro force, and focus solely on the omega beams' lower showings... i guess it's not completely unexpected though - i mean, that does seem to be the norm around here. *shrug*

and yes. superman also destroyed a few imperiex probes. however, what must be noted is that he was only capable of such when he entered a very specific mindset that said, if you know anything about superman, you'd also know that there is very little he can't do... especially when he's pissed. but make no mistake, supes destroying the probes is a ridiculously uber feat in it's own right.

furthermore, you also seem to be completely disregarding the fact that a single imperiex probe collectively shit stomped, and was totally unfazed by, the likes of: kyle, wally, plastic man, wonder woman, superman, j'onn, mongul/all of war world, darkseid/all of apokolips, etc. hell, even thunderbolt was hesitant to combat a probe.

...yet doomsday shredded through several of them like cheap tissue paper.

who's piloting the destroyer?

Nobody. It's piloting itself. Like when it killed Thor.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
who's piloting the destroyer?
Batman.

Regardless, the Destroyer piloted by an ordinary mortal was manhandling Thor in their first encounter.

Classic Destroyer was arguably the most powerful Marvel character when it first appeared. It was indestructible (not 'nigh indestructible': it took a hammer strike like nothing), could harness any force in the universe (this further allowed for matter manipulation), and could fire beams of limitless force (that's how it sliced up Mjolnir effortlessly).

I think the Destroyer takes this.

Originally posted by Galan007
heh, i love how you completely ignore doomsday having also tanked the astro force, and focus solely on the omega beams' lower showings... i guess it's not completely unexpected though - i mean, that does seem to be the norm around here. *shrug*

and yes. superman also destroyed a few imperiex probes. however, what must be noted is that he was only capable of such when he entered a very specific mindset that said, if you know anything about superman, you'd also know that there is very little he can't do... especially when he's pissed. but make no mistake, supes destroying imperiex probes is a ridiculously uber feat in it's own right.

furthermore, you also seem to be completely disregarding the fact that a single imperiex probe collectively shit stomped, and was totally unfazed by, the likes of: kyle, wally, plastic man, wonder woman, superman, j'onn, mongul, etc, etc. hell, even thunderbolt was hesitant to combat a probe.

...yet doomsday shredded through several of them like cheap tissue paper.

lol, I didnt focus on the astroforce because, tanking the astroforce was the lower of the two feats and from the get go i dont thnk it puts him out of the range of being affected by the destroyers beam. Hence it was irrelevant to my point. Further, since u attempted to use the omega beams to claim that DD would be unaffected by the destroyer blasts, i was obligated to bring to light the fact that the omegabeams have been tanked by beings around supermans level of durability. I even offered up an explanation for this (Darkseid varying the beams output) because i wasnt trying to downplay the overall power of the beams themselves.


Nextly, saying "there is very little supers cant do", doesnt even qualify as an argument. Indeed his high feats are impressive but they dont put him beyond other high heralders who have high feats just as good.

And as for the imperiex probe thing, indeed the probe was beating the JLA in much the same manner Konvict was beating them. but would u seriously then argue that each of the JLA members went all out and fought to the best of their abilities in the same manner that supes did when he fought the probes the second time? simply no. ITs similar to the situation in which konvikt, a character that superman can handle fairly easily on his own if he uses his abilities to fullest, was giving the JLA (superman included) fits. Its the same thing with characters like thor in the avengers, and surfer and Dr strange in the defenders. Characters that they can individually defeat without much trouble constantly give them huge problems while they fight in teams. Its as a result of not utilizing their abilities to the fullest. Its doesnt,as u seem to be implying, mean that there is some form of astronomical gap between superman and the rest of the JLA combined. The same thus goes for Doomsday as well.

And so no, doomsday destroying imperiex probes while impressive does not lead me to believe that he can harm the destroyer considering the beings that have failed in the past.

Simply put, Thor is an extremely powerful god, one of the most powerful beings in the MU, he couldn't put a scratch on the Destroyer, until he absorbed all of his dad's power, who was the 2nd most powerful Norse god in existence, following behind Bor. Destroyer Armor is one of the worst things for Doomsday, not just the disintegration beams, but it's transmutation could change Doomsday into something, but not kill him, he wouldn't evolve or adapt, because he's not hurt. Or if he did something like, disintegrate him down to a skeleton, then he's screwed, they said it would have taken him a millinia to regrow from that skeleton if he hadn't had help.

Originally posted by Naija boy
And as for the imperiex probe thing, indeed the probe was beating the JLA in much the same manner Konvict was beating them. facepalm

Originally posted by Galan007
facepalm

You've got nothing.

NOTHING!

Originally posted by Galan007
facepalm

lulz, Care to elaborate? or u think the copout facepalm will suffice?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Ok. first of all dont darkseids Omega beams vary in power output (i.e can he control how powerful he makes it)? I mean i remember superman taking it with little damage and i think cyborg superman has taken it as well. If so then while doomsday taking it is no doubt impressive, its not something that puts him beyond the range of the destroyers disintegrator beam which has shown to be able to kill and oneshot people with durability on the level of thor (i.e around the same level as superman). Also its regular blasts have even shown to be able to tear through mjolnir (a metal equal to primary adamantium) easily.

Further i also seem to remember supermans using his HV and icebreath to blow holes through the imperiex probes as well as physically dominating them. Therefore r u really suggesting that the entropy aegis armour is of comparable toughness to the impriex probes that both superman and doomsday were destroying? Seriously?. Anyhow, The Asgarsdian destroyer has shrugged off without any damage the best blows and attacks from hercules and all out thor, (who is definitely of comparable strength to Superman and with mjolnir has >>>striking power and blast ability),Desak the godslayer, as well as the entire army of Asgard+thor,combined attack of avengers etc.

I highly doubt that superman level blows will be able to damage it when greater attacks have failed.

who do you insist on lowballing heat vision and freeze breath?

Originally posted by -Pr-
who do you insist on lowballing heat vision and freeze breath?

Not lowballing them. Comparatively they are not supermans most powerful method of attack (which are his punches obviously) and blastwise they are not at all as good as what thor brings to the table.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Not lowballing them. Comparatively they are not supermans most powerful method of attack (which are his punches obviously) and blastwise they are not at all as good as what thor brings to the table.

they're pretty powerful in their own right, and have the feats to back them up. there's a reason he uses them so often, you know.

also, the JLA were at war. comparing the probes to Konvikt is a poor comparison, imo.

Destroyer wins this

Originally posted by -Pr-
they're pretty powerful in their own right, and have the feats to back them up. there's a reason he uses them so often, you know.

also, the JLA were at war. comparing the probes to Konvikt is a poor comparison, imo.

I never claimed they werent powerful.

Oh and in regards to the example, ill ask u the same thing, do u think that the each of the JLA members that fought the probes fought them to the best of their abilities in ways similar to how supes fought them the second time? If not then the konvikt example is pretty valid since i was using it to illustrate the same idea (not fighting to the best of their abilties).

Originally posted by Naija boy
I never claimed they werent powerful.

Oh and in regards to the example, ill ask u the same thing, do u think that the each of the JLA members that fought the probes fought them to the best of their abilities in ways similar to how supes fought them the second time? If not then the konvikt example is pretty valid since i was using it to illustrate the same idea (not fighting to the best of their abilties).

you suggested that because heat vision and freeze breath was capable of downing imperiex probes that they weren't as tough as the entropy armour, when it was stated that it was a probe's shell used in the construction of it. or did i misunderstand?

the JLA that fought the probes was more powerful than the one that fought konvikt, first of all. and second, yes. that's why people like diana and clark were hacking off limbs left and right, and why aquaman was willing to sacrifice himself to save atlantis. clark was just smart enough to cauterise the wounds after doing so.

Originally posted by Naija boy
lulz, Care to elaborate? or u think the copout facepalm will suffice? heh, "copout"... the arrogance of some people never ceases to amaze me. the facepalm was simply my way of saying, "i'm done, there's no use in continuing." why am i done, you ask? because no matter what facts are presented on doomsday's behalf, they will all be swiftly disregarded and/or enormously downplayed... but what's weird is that only the highest of high destroyer showings seem to be presented, for some reason. *ponders*

anyhow, when you used ABC logic to compare konvikt to the imperiex probes, the proverbial 'light switch' flicked on, and i realized the aforementioned. so thanks!

Originally posted by -Pr-
you suggested that because heat vision and freeze breath was capable of downing imperiex probes that they weren't as tough as the entropy armour, when it was stated that it was a probe's shell used in the construction of it. or did i misunderstand?

the JLA that fought the probes was more powerful than the one that fought konvikt, first of all. and second, yes. that's why people like diana and clark were hacking off limbs left and right, and why aquaman was willing to sacrifice himself to save atlantis. clark was just smart enough to cauterise the wounds after doing so.

I suggested that using HV,freezebreath, and physically dominating them indicated that they werent as tough as the entropy armour. it wasnt just the focus on the freeze breath and HV but on superman being able to destroy it like that, regardless of the method used. ( im also pretty sure i remember the entropy aegis being having new gods tech as well which should differentiate it from the probes)

And im surprised u answered yes to the question. Diana didnt make use of her speed to the fullest. Jonn definitely didnt combine his multiple powers in similar ways to clark. Flash certainly wasnt using multiple IMPs etc. Hence the characters that fought the probe didnt at all fight to the best of their abilities and to then use that fight to imply that clark while angry or whatnot is more powerful than them all is faulty.

Originally posted by Naija boy
I suggested that using HV,freezebreath, and physically dominating them indicated that they werent as tough as the entropy armour. it wasnt just the focus on the freeze breath and HV but on superman being able to destroy it like that, regardless of the method used. ( im also pretty sure i remember the entropy aegis being having new gods tech as well which should differentiate it from the probes)

And im surprised u answered yes to the question. Diana didnt make use of her speed to the fullest. Jonn definitely didnt combine his multiple powers in similar ways to clark. Flash certainly wasnt using multiple IMPs etc. Hence the characters that fought the probe didnt at all fight to the best of their abilities and to then use that fight to imply that clark while angry or whatnot is more powerful than them all is faulty.

ah, ok. it was retro fitted with apokolyptan tech, yes, but it is stated that they used the shell of an imperiex probe. you think darkseid has access to tech that would be able to withstand his omega if he wanted to annihilate it from existence? the shell has to at least contribute to it's impressive durability, or else why use it at all?

diana had full armour and was using weaponry. when she struck down the imperiex probe that exploded, she was hit by the ensuing explosion. she didn't know that the self destruct was harmful, so her speed wouldn't have made a difference. how often does wally use IMP's? that's a forum tactic. j'onn was out in the first panel of the attack on the JLA. we don't know whether he used all his powers or not. he could have tried them all and still gotten smacked around the way pretty much every other hero on earth did. those probes were taking on teams of people including Zod's forces in pokolistan (sp?).

clark was stated to be operating on a higher level. the narrator says that after superman cuts loose, he starts wrecking probes. it's blatantly stated.

so it's not faulty, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
heh, "copout"... the arrogance of some people never ceases to amaze me. the facepalm was simply my way of saying, "i'm done, there's no use in continuing." why am i done, you ask? because no matter what facts are presented on doomsday's behalf, they will all be swiftly disregarded and/or enormously downplayed... but what's weird is that only the highest of high destroyer showings seem to be presented, for some reason. *ponders*

anyhow, when you used ABC logic to compare konvikt to the imperiex probes, the proverbial 'light switch' flicked on, and i realized the aforementioned. so thanks!



lulz. u post a facepalm in a blatant attempt to ridicule my post and u have the audacity to talk about "arrogance"?....the hypocrisy of some people never ceases to amaze me. Further iwas not disregarding anything. I was debating the weight that ur so called "facts" held in determining the outcome of this match. It seems that u for some reason expected me to concede that doomsday wins immediately after u referenced some of his feats.......just no. Not only that, but all the feats of the destroyer i mentioned describe how it is consistently portrayed so the ur next accusation is false as well.

And it was probably because of ur ridiculous predetermined approach to the discussion that u somehow thought that using two similar situations to illustrate a general idea is equivalent to ABC logic. That is just inane.

And if u no longer have interest in the discussion good for u.........just dont attempt to characterize it as anything but that and then call into question the validity of anothers argument.

Originally posted by -Pr-
ah, ok. it was retro fitted with apokolyptan tech, yes, but it is stated that they used the shell of an imperiex probe. you think darkseid has access to tech that would be able to withstand his omega if he wanted to annihilate it from existence? the shell has to at least contribute to it's impressive durability, or else why use it at all?

diana had full armour and was using weaponry. when she struck down the imperiex probe that exploded, she was hit by the ensuing explosion. she didn't know that the self destruct was harmful, so her speed wouldn't have made a difference. how often does wally use IMP's? that's a forum tactic. j'onn was out in the first panel of the attack on the JLA. we don't know whether he used all his powers or not. he could have tried them all and still gotten smacked around the way pretty much every other hero on earth did. those probes were taking on teams of people including Zod's forces in pokolistan (sp?).

clark was stated to be operating on a higher level. the narrator says that after superman cuts loose, he starts wrecking probes. it's blatantly stated.

so it's not faulty, imo. i agree.

Originally posted by Naija boy
lulz. u post a facepalm in a blatant attempt to ridicule my post and u have the audacity to talk about "arrogance"?....the hypocrisy of some people never ceases to amaze me. Further iwas not disregarding anything. I was debating the weight that ur so called "facts" held in determining the outcome of this match. It seems that u for some reason expected me to concede that doomsday wins immediately after u referenced some of his feats.......just no. Not only that, but all the feats of the destroyer i mentioned describe how it is consistently portrayed so the ur next accusation is false as well.

And it was probably because of ur ridiculous predetermined approach to the discussion that u somehow thought that using two similar situations to illustrate a general idea is equivalent to ABC logic. That is just inane.

And if u no longer have interest in the discussion good for u.........just dont attempt to characterize it as anything but that and then call into question the validity of anothers argument.


ohh and p.s. i never said doomsday would win. you may want to reread my posts again.

Sad.

Originally posted by kgkg
Sad. Indeed, old chap.

Why?

take one chill pill, and pass the rest down.

I think this would be a very good fight. I can't see either character necessarily being able to dominate the other.

So what Doomsday version is this?

the pre-kryptonian baby version.

What? You mean the most recent one?

Is the current version a baby?

define baby... mmm

Originally posted by Mindset
Is the current version a baby?
...No

technically, he became doomsday after he was killed the first time right?



but seriosly, i guess it's current version unless specified.

Isn't the most recent version of Doomsday the one that fought the Kryptonians and Superman?

that or josh walker "the fake" doomsday

Originally posted by kgkg
Isn't the most recent version of Doomsday the one that fought the Kryptonians and Superman?
Yeah, it is.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
technically, he became doomsday after he was killed the first time right?



but seriosly, i guess it's current version unless specified. technically, he wasn't dubbed "doomsday" until the DoS saga

before that, i believe bertron simply called him "the ultimate" - and darkseid knew him as "the armageddon creature".

technically as in he was no longer the same being any longer, bertron's design was for self evolution after death.

the name thing is only a legal thing really, technically "doomsday's" real name is the ultimate.

Originally posted by -Pr-
ah, ok. it was retro fitted with apokolyptan tech, yes, but it is stated that they used the shell of an imperiex probe. you think darkseid has access to tech that would be able to withstand his omega if he wanted to annihilate it from existence? the shell has to at least contribute to it's impressive durability, or else why use it at all?

diana had full armour and was using weaponry. when she struck down the imperiex probe that exploded, she was hit by the ensuing explosion. she didn't know that the self destruct was harmful, so her speed wouldn't have made a difference. how often does wally use IMP's? that's a forum tactic. j'onn was out in the first panel of the attack on the JLA. we don't know whether he used all his powers or not. he could have tried them all and still gotten smacked around the way pretty much every other hero on earth did. those probes were taking on teams of people including Zod's forces in pokolistan (sp?).

clark was stated to be operating on a higher level. the narrator says that after superman cuts loose, he starts wrecking probes. it's blatantly stated.

so it's not faulty, imo.

I never stated that the durability of the probe didnt contribute to that of the armour. I stated that the durability of the probe wasnt equal to that of armour, a claim which i stand by.

I understand the circumstances of dianas ko. But that doesnt change the fact that if she had indeed used her speed, it would have made for a very different fight. She would have been able to defeat the probe much faster as well as escape the ensuing explosion. Similarly i know that wally doesnt use IMPs regularly but superman doesnt fight in the same manner he fought the probes regularly either. Thats exactly the point. Wally was clearly not fighting to the best of his ability while superman was. The same goes for Jonn who could have efficiently combined his powers like phasing,speed and invisibility but didnt. Indeed the probes were smacking down teams of heroes, however if the individuals within thiose teams had used their powers as efficiently as superman used his it would have made for very different outcomes.

Yes clark was operating on a higher level as he was using his powers to the fullest. The characters we are comparing him to however were clearly not using theirs to the fullest within the same scenarios. Therefore there it is definitely faulty to use their fight against the imperiex probes to suggest that clark at that point and consequently doomsday were >>>>than the rest of the JLA combined, as one set were using their powers to the fullest (clark and doomsday) while the others were not (JLA).

Originally posted by psycho gundam
technically as in he was no longer the same being any longer, bertron's design was for self evolution after death.

the name thing is only a legal thing really, technically "doomsday's" real name is the ultimate. too many "technically"(s) in that post for me.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
technically as in he was no longer the same being any longer, bertron's design was for self evolution after death.

the name thing is only a legal thing really, technically "doomsday's" real name is the ultimate. I love when you post

Originally posted by Naija boy
Yes clark was operating on a higher level as he was using his powers to the fullest. The characters we are comparing him to however were clearly not using theirs to the fullest within the same scenarios. Therefore there it is definitely faulty to use their fight against the imperiex probes to suggest that clark at that point and consequently doomsday were >>>>than the rest of the JLA combined, as one set were using their powers to the fullest (clark and doomsday) while the others were not (JLA). a.) the heroes the imperiex probe owned were defending earth. to assume they were half-ass fighting goes against their very nature. furthermore, most of the heroes involved in that saga were written quite uber - for instance, that's the same arc kyle held a big bang in, etc.

b.) keep in mind that along with the heroes previously mentioned, darkseid and the whole of apokolips, mongul and the whole of war world, zod and his guard, etc. were easily swatted to the side by probes.

c.) during "doomsday wars" , doomsday collectively owned kyle, flash, orion /w/ astro force, j'onn, dianna, plastic man, superman, etc. with a ridiculous amount of ease. thus, it's perfectly logical to assume he was >> the combined JLA, based on previously established feats.

Originally posted by Galan007
a.) the heroes the imperiex probe owned were defending earth. to assume they were half-ass fighting goes against their very nature. furthermore, most of the heroes involved in that saga were written quite uber - for instance, that's the same arc kyle held a big bang in, etc.

b.) keep in mind that along with the heroes previously mentioned, darkseid and the whole of apokolips, mongul and the whole of war world, zod and his guard, etc. were easily swatted to the side by probes.

c.) during "doomsday wars" , doomsday collectively owned kyle, flash, orion /w/ astro force, j'onn, dianna, plastic man, superman, etc. with a ridiculous amount of ease. thus, it's perfectly logical to assume he was >> the combined JLA.

a). Im not assuming they were half ass fighting from an instory perspective, im sure they were all trying really hard.lol. However, they were indeed not utilizing their abilities to the same level as clark was using his. The same idea can be seen in the differences where thor fought onslaught and when thor fought thanos. Against,onslaught (from an in story perspective), was thor going all out?..Certainly yes. he even tried to go warrior madness. However did he utilize his powers as efficiently as he could have?...no. He didnt use many of his powers such as absorption,antiforce,godforce etc which could have all been very useful in that fight. Now Against thanos was thor going all out (once again look at it from an in story perspective)?...Yes he was. This time however he used his powers efficiently, combining his weather powers+different blasts+absorption and amplifcation of energy etc. This principle applies to in relation to different characters as well. Hence both can be going "all out" or "angry" or whatever u want to call it, but one can be using his abilities far more efficiently than the other.

b)Understood, however iirc those fights were mostly off panel and so the way in which DS and co fought is really up in the air.

c). I havent read DD wars but im pretty confident that the same problem occured in that scenario as its a problem that is rampant in most comics in which teams get beaten down.

superman from owaw was pretty damn impressive to me, either the writers nerfed him in the konvikt debacle or he was on roids in owaw. *shrugs*

owaw supes would have eaten konvikt for breakfast.

Originally posted by Naija boy
a). Im not assuming they were half ass fighting from an instory perspective, im sure they were all trying really hard.lol. However, they were indeed not utilizing their abilities to the same level as clark was using his. The same idea can be seen in the differences where thor fought onslaught and when thor fought thanos. Against,onslaught (from an in story perspective), was thor going all out?..Certainly yes. he even tried to go warrior madness. However did he utilize his powers as efficiently as he could have?...no. He didnt use many of his powers such as absorption,antiforce,godforce etc which could have all been very useful in that fight. Now Against thanos was thor going all out (once again look at it from an in story perspective)?...Yes he was. This time however he used his powers efficiently, combining his weather powers+different blasts+absorption and amplifcation of energy etc. This principle applies to in relation to different characters as well. Hence both can be going "all out" or "angry" or whatever u want to call it, but one can be using his abilities far more efficiently than the other.

c). I havent read DD wars but im pretty confident that the same problem occured in that scenario as its a problem that is rampant in most comics in which teams get beaten down. if you're truly of the belief that said characters were holding back in the separate instances i mentioned, then that's your opinion and you are welcome to it.

i, on the other hand, simply can't buy into such a notion.

Originally posted by Galan007
if you're truly of the belief that said characters were holding back in the separate instances i mentioned, then that's your opinion and you are welcome to it.

i, on the other hand, simply can't buy into such a notion.

As seen in my last post i dont think they were "holding back" per se in any of the instances. i think that they were underutilzing their abilities (and ill read up on DD wars to confirm this) but thats not the same thing.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
superman from owaw was pretty damn impressive to me, either the writers nerfed him in the konvikt debacle or he was on roids in owaw. *shrugs*

owaw supes would have eaten konvikt for breakfast.

Agreed. i dont doubt this. superman can and will be that impressive anytime he uses his abilities so efficiently. All im advocating is that other characters using their abilities to similar levels of efficiency can be just as impressive.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Wait werent HV beams affecting him? Also where was it stated that only a universal being could put a scratch on him? Even in the comics u claim to have read u still manage to fabricate nonsense. Also and it was thor with the Odin force that resisted the desintegration beam not regular thor. The destroyers beam has oneshotted regular thor on previous occasion.

Also ur ridiculousness is further shown when u try to use a non-canon crossover to describe superman as being more durable than admantium.lol. Just stop debating comics, u clearly have not read many and simply make a fool of urself everytime u do.facepalm

HV didn't put a scratch on him. The mother box proved that the only thing that could end DD was Entropy (a universal force). The Odin force doesn't add any natural durability against the disintegrating beams. Comics are inconsistent. I know it was non canon as I mentioned. But canon has nothing to truth in itself. The writer's opinion is evidence enough for me.

Originally posted by h1a8
HV didn't put a scratch on him. The mother box proved that the only thing that could end DD was Entropy (a universal force). The Odin force doesn't add any natural durability against the disintegrating beams. Comics are inconsistent. I know it was non canon as I mentioned. But canon has nothing to truth in itself. The writer's opinion is evidence enough for me.
The mother box proved that Entropy was the only thing they could use that would stop him. There are many things that they had no access to.

Originally posted by Naija boy
lol, I didnt focus on the astroforce because, tanking the astroforce was the lower of the two feats and from the get go i dont thnk it puts him out of the range of being affected by the destroyers beam. Hence it was irrelevant to my point. Further, since u attempted to use the omega beams to claim that DD would be unaffected by the destroyer blasts, i was obligated to bring to light the fact that the omegabeams have been tanked by beings around supermans level of durability. I even offered up an explanation for this (Darkseid varying the beams output) because i wasnt trying to downplay the overall power of the beams themselves.


Nextly, saying "there is very little supers cant do", doesnt even qualify as an argument. Indeed his high feats are impressive but they dont put him beyond other high heralders who have high feats just as good.

And as for the imperiex probe thing, indeed the probe was beating the JLA in much the same manner Konvict was beating them. but would u seriously then argue that each of the JLA members went all out and fought to the best of their abilities in the same manner that supes did when he fought the probes the second time? simply no. ITs similar to the situation in which konvikt, a character that superman can handle fairly easily on his own if he uses his abilities to fullest, was giving the JLA (superman included) fits. Its the same thing with characters like thor in the avengers, and surfer and Dr strange in the defenders. Characters that they can individually defeat without much trouble constantly give them huge problems while they fight in teams. Its as a result of not utilizing their abilities to the fullest. Its doesnt,as u seem to be implying, mean that there is some form of astronomical gap between superman and the rest of the JLA combined. The same thus goes for Doomsday as well.

And so no, doomsday destroying imperiex probes while impressive does not lead me to believe that he can harm the destroyer considering the beings that have failed in the past.

It has been noted that a few beings are key to the stability of reality are immune to the Omega Effect. This is why Superman has survived it. Cyborg has Superman's dna and is the reason he survived it too.

DD going through probes like tissue paper proves that he can indeed do some damage to the destroyer.

Originally posted by King Kandy
The mother box proved that Entropy was the only thing they could use that would stop him. There are many things that they had no access to.


The mother box could create any weapon, teleport beings to any location, and give exact info of anything in the universe. There was no other thing that could kill DD. He would either be already immune or quickly adapt to be.

Note: The OE and Astro Force are the power of the source and are greater than any non universal power in the universe.

Originally posted by h1a8
The mother box could create any weapon, teleport beings to any location, and give exact info of anything in the universe. There was no other thing that could kill DD. He would either be already immune or quickly adapt to be.

Note: The OE and Astro Force are the power of the source and are greater than any non universal power in the universe.
If that was true, Doomsday could not have lost to anything besides Entropy in future incarnations. Obviously not true since he died many times later.

destroyer armor is harder then adamantium...so yeah maybe DD gonna damage the paint on the armor (oh wait...there aint no paint...too bad )

Originally posted by King Kandy
If that was true, Doomsday could not have lost to anything besides Entropy in future incarnations. Obviously not true since he died many times later.

Imperiex had the power of Entropy and thus was the one one who had the rights to DD's life. DD Rex was weaker in every way except intelligence. DD's clones where just ... clones. Lastly the other version's that came after HP were never killed nor harmed.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
destroyer armor is harder then adamantium...so yeah maybe DD gonna damage the paint on the armor (oh wait...there aint no paint...too bad )

Prove that it is harder than true adamantium. Because enchanted Uru has been damaged more times than true adamantium.

Originally posted by h1a8
Prove that it is harder than true adamantium. Because enchanted Uru has been damaged more times than true adamantium. lol
http://marvel.com/universe/Destroyer_%28construct%29 #paraphanalia

btw mjolnir been tested more than adamantium
and destroyer armor aint made of uru anyway!

Originally posted by h1a8
Prove that it is harder than true adamantium. Because enchanted Uru has been damaged more times than true adamantium.
Mjolnir has dented pure adamantium before.

And the Destroyer is much harder than enchanted Uru, anyway.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Mjolnir has dented pure adamantium before.not to mention Caps sheild wich is >> adamatium

Originally posted by King Kandy
Mjolnir has dented pure adamantium before.

And the Destroyer is much harder than enchanted Uru, anyway. Using your argument the Destroyer is weaker than enchanted Uru since Mjolnir damaged it physically.

But no! A less harder object can easily dent a harder object if the Surface area of the less harder is small enough and it is thick enough. For example I could dent a thin steel plate with my fist (knuckle) and have broken through brick slabs with mere slaps (I studied martial arts a long time ago). Mjolnir was thicker and had a smaller surface area than Cap's shield. Thus it is possible for it to dent it without it being stronger.

Originally posted by h1a8
Using your argument the Destroyer is weaker than enchanted Uru since Mjolnir damaged it physically.

But no! A less harder object can easily dent a harder object if the Surface area of the less harder is small enough and it is thick enough. For example I could dent a thin steel plate with my fist (knuckle) and have broken through brick slabs with mere slaps (I studied martial arts a long time ago). Mjolnir was thicker and had a smaller surface area than Cap's shield. Thus it is possible for it to dent it without it being stronger.
When was the destroyer damaged by mjolnir not enhanced by some extra power?

You do not understand how these things work. Hardness is defined by the ability to resist structural damage by lower substances. For instance Topaz can scratch Emerald, but Emerald cannot scratch Topaz without damage to it's own structure. That's the big difference between lesser hardness, it can damage higher substances but will be damaged itself in the process... only a higher substance can scratch a lower one without any structural damage.

Originally posted by King Kandy
When was the destroyer damaged by mjolnir not enhanced by some extra power? That is why it is called enchanted Uru. And it was by purely physical force that Mjolnir done this. If Destroyer was stronger then Mjolnir would have broke upon impact (by your argument).
We are not talking about scratching things but denting and tearing them. Is my knuckle harder than steel plate? If no, then why can I dent it? Good try though.

Originally posted by h1a8
Using your argument the Destroyer is weaker than enchanted Uru since Mjolnir damaged it physically.

But no! A less harder object can easily dent a harder object if the Surface area of the less harder is small enough and it is thick enough. For example I could dent a thin steel plate with my fist (knuckle) and have broken through brick slabs with mere slaps (I studied martial arts a long time ago). Mjolnir was thicker and had a smaller surface area than Cap's shield. Thus it is possible for it to dent it without it being stronger. destroyers different cuz the armors way thinner then mjolnir. its like a thick piece of iron can punch through a steel sheet, same thing


but caps sheild is VERY thick in the middle, as thick as mjolnir if u look carefuly

so then why dint mjolnir break in 2 when it collide with the sheild? (like it broke in 2 when it collide with 2 other enchanted uru weapons, it made a frakkin huge nucular boom) u tell me

Originally posted by Naija boy
I never stated that the durability of the probe didnt contribute to that of the armour. I stated that the durability of the probe wasnt equal to that of armour, a claim which i stand by.

I understand the circumstances of dianas ko. But that doesnt change the fact that if she had indeed used her speed, it would have made for a very different fight. She would have been able to defeat the probe much faster as well as escape the ensuing explosion. Similarly i know that wally doesnt use IMPs regularly but superman doesnt fight in the same manner he fought the probes regularly either. Thats exactly the point. Wally was clearly not fighting to the best of his ability while superman was. The same goes for Jonn who could have efficiently combined his powers like phasing,speed and invisibility but didnt. Indeed the probes were smacking down teams of heroes, however if the individuals within thiose teams had used their powers as efficiently as superman used his it would have made for very different outcomes.

Yes clark was operating on a higher level as he was using his powers to the fullest. The characters we are comparing him to however were clearly not using theirs to the fullest within the same scenarios. Therefore there it is definitely faulty to use their fight against the imperiex probes to suggest that clark at that point and consequently doomsday were >>>>than the rest of the JLA combined, as one set were using their powers to the fullest (clark and doomsday) while the others were not (JLA).

we're just gonna go round in circles, aren't we...

just to clarify, i'm not stating that doomsday would win. not in the slightest. i don't know enough about the destroyer armour to make an educated guess. i honestly think you're way off about owaw, though.

Originally posted by Galan007
a.) the heroes the imperiex probe owned were defending earth. to assume they were half-ass fighting goes against their very nature. furthermore, most of the heroes involved in that saga were written quite uber - for instance, that's the same arc kyle held a big bang in, etc.

b.) keep in mind that along with the heroes previously mentioned, darkseid and the whole of apokolips, mongul and the whole of war world, zod and his guard, etc. were easily swatted to the side by probes.

c.) during "doomsday wars" , doomsday collectively owned kyle, flash, orion /w/ astro force, j'onn, dianna, plastic man, superman, etc. with a ridiculous amount of ease. thus, it's perfectly logical to assume he was >> the combined JLA, based on previously established feats.

Destroyer destroys.

Originally posted by -Pr-
we're just gonna go round in circles, aren't we...

just to clarify, i'm not stating that doomsday would win. not in the slightest. i don't know enough about the destroyer armour to make an educated guess. i honestly think you're way off about owaw, though.


Meh, ur certainly entitled to ur opinion. I dont think im way off at all though. im pointin out clear inequalities present in the two scenarios which make their use as criteria for comparing levels of power faulty..

But we will just have to agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Meh, ur certainly entitled to ur opinion. I dont think im way off at all though. im pointin out clear inequalities present in the two scenarios which make their use as criteria for comparing levels of power faulty..

But we will just have to agree to disagree.

aye. you see inequalities, i don't, lol...

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
destroyers different cuz the armors way thinner then mjolnir.

proof?



hysterical

one of the most ridiculous posts in kmc history . . .

moving on. i've personally always likened the destroyer's beam to the OE. everyone knows how the OE fared. question becomes could DD harm the destroyer. less sure of that. we know the armor CAN be damaged and destroyed if sufficient force is exerted. we know that when it was briefly distracted in a battle with thor, thor himself (with his hammer) ko'd it (thor 221-222 iirc). we also know about the probes and how they were handled by dd though imo probes/destroyer aren't truly analogous. the only difference i see is that the destroyer has a weakness that MIGHT somehow be exploited by dd, whereas dd HAS no such weakness. could dd adapt to find a way to attack the host? he hasn't shown such an ability exactly, but i don't think it out of the realm of reason.

i guess i'd say dd/destroyer are pretty damn close and anyone who thinks one of them is 'clearly' superior to the other, doesn't really know both characters very well. or just doesn't like one. (anti-fanboys are even worse than fanboys . . .)

Originally posted by leonidas
proof?



hysterical


moving on. i've personally always likened the destroyer's beam to the OE. everyone knows how the OE fared. question becomes could DD harm the destroyer. less sure of that. we know the armor CAN be damaged and destroyed if sufficient force is exerted. we know that when it was briefly distracted in a battle with thor, thor himself (with his hammer) ko'd it (thor 221-222 iirc).


Thor didnt actually KO it though. he just knocked it down and then the host managed to escape back into his own body. Assuming were dealing with a host that is willfully controlling it then its a different story,

Originally posted by Naija boy
Thor didnt actually KO it though. he just knocked it down and then the host managed to escape back into his own body. Assuming were dealing with a host that is willfully controlling it then its a different story,

hmm, that's rather open to interpretation.

if it wasn't ko'd or at least incapacitated in SOME manner, how did the host escape from it?

Originally posted by h1a8
Using your argument the Destroyer is weaker than enchanted Uru since Mjolnir damaged it physically.

But no! A less harder object can easily dent a harder object if the Surface area of the less harder is small enough and it is thick enough. For example I could dent a thin steel plate with my fist (knuckle) and have broken through brick slabs with mere slaps (I studied martial arts a long time ago). Mjolnir was thicker and had a smaller surface area than Cap's shield. Thus it is possible for it to dent it without it being stronger. You are ignoring the context behind the feat as usual not that you read it.

Originally posted by leonidas
proof?



hysterical

one of the most ridiculous posts in kmc history . . . lol yeah your the one whose sayin that so-call "legendary" weapon is weaker then somethin thats mass-produce on earth yeah man that make sense
man u rilly hate Marvel lol why dont u say the writers are a bunch of dum****s while your at it

btw DD can also be damage with enuf force

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
lol yeah your the one whose sayin that so-call "legendary" weapon is weaker then somethin thats mass-produce on earth yeah man that make sense

that is STILL the stuidest argument i've ever encountered in the KMC. the hammer is harder than the shield because it was made in asgard and the shield was made on earth!

BRILLIANT!



actually, by implying the hammer>shield JUST BECAUSE THE SHIELD WAS MADE IN ASGARD YOU'RE the one saying the writers are all stupid!! why? because anytime a piece of earth science/tech does something GREATER than what anything fashioned in asgard has done, you think the writers are wrong, genius!

asgard is just another world in the universe. not the greatest, not the least.

earth science is AT LEAST a match for asgardian science or magic. it's been shown too many times to count. hell, doom's armor stole the power of the friggin BEYONDER!! you're still hilarious . . .

btw--the shield is a one-of-a-kind and has never been duplicated let alone mass-produced.

and where is the proof the destroyer armor is thin, again? and where is your proof that the shield is as thick as the hammer in the middle? we all wait for your utterly ludicrous reply . . .

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
btw DD can also be damage with enuf force

yep, but i don't think the destroyer is simply going to 'punch him out'. you may believe that, and that's your opinion, but i don't see that happening.

Originally posted by leonidas
that is STILL the stuidest argument i've ever encountered in the KMC. the hammer is harder than the shield because it was made in asgard and the shield was made on earth!

BRILLIANT!

actually, by implying the hammer>shield JUST BECAUSE THE SHIELD WAS MADE IN ASGARD YOU'RE the one saying the writers are all stupid!! why? because anytime a piece of earth science/tech does something GREATER than what anything fashioned in asgard has done, you think the writers are wrong, genius!

asgard is just another world in the universe. not the greatest, not the least.
no but your making crapiest argument by sayin teh writers made a unique weapon ALL 4 NOTHING (since its weaker then somethin which earth can make in large quantity (adamatium))

i mean if so-call "legendary" hammer is weaker then somethin which can be mass-produce on earth then what is it that make it legendary? oh yeah thats right NOTHIN so basicaly your sayin the writers did this all for nothin & ****ed up big timedint he use a cube for that too?i wuz talkin about adamantium not the sheild

yeah Caps sheild is unique (even more then mjolnir!) so MAYBE it coud be harder then the hammer at least that woud be acceptable
(but it aint harder IMO)



btw destroyer armor aint thick cuz its hollow im prety sure they showed it onpanel somewere

Originally posted by leonidas
yep, but i don't think the destroyer is simply going to 'punch him out'. you may believe that, and that's your opinion, but i don't see that happening. but dint Supe break his bones or somethin?

DD become more resistent to physical damage but never 100% resistent his physical durablity stays pretty much the same

IMO its stalemate in a slugfest between DD & destroyer cuz DD shoud regenarate fast enough if he get hurt

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, that's rather open to interpretation.

if it wasn't ko'd or at least incapacitated in SOME manner, how did the host escape from it?


Knocking it down broke the destroyers grip over the guys consciousness long enough for it to escape. Also note that prior to that point, the destroyer hesistated slightly due to the guys friend pleading with him to stop. The narration then alluded to the words of the friend touching the soul of the guy within the destroyer enough for him to cause the hesistation. Hence the guy within at this point was struggling with the destroyer for control over his own consciousness. In the midst of this struggle thor hit the destroyer down and that provided the opportunity to escape.

Originally posted by h1a8
That is why it is called enchanted Uru. And it was by purely physical force that Mjolnir done this. If Destroyer was stronger then Mjolnir would have broke upon impact (by your argument).
When has regular Thor ever damaged the destroyer with Mjolnir?

Originally posted by h1a8
We are not talking about scratching things but denting and tearing them. Is my knuckle harder than steel plate? If no, then why can I dent it? Good try though.
Your knuckle is not hard and unyielding. It has give. It's structure is compromised when hitting something harder, but it immediately springs back so you never will notice. Try it. Poke your hand a few times, the skin IS "dented" but instantly returns to normal.

Metals, stone, do not have much give at all. If they hit something harder then them, they will crack, they will dent.

Originally posted by King Kandy
When has regular Thor ever damaged the destroyer with Mjolnir?


Your knuckle is not hard and unyielding. It has give. It's structure is compromised when hitting something harder, but it immediately springs back so you never will notice. Try it. Poke your hand a few times, the skin IS "dented" but instantly returns to normal.

Metals, stone, do not have much give at all. If they hit something harder then them, they will crack, they will dent.

What are you talking about? Hardness has little to nothing to do with denting something. I could take an iron, or smooth stone hammer and dent the steel plate without a scratch or dent to the hammer. I could take a brick and ram it sideways into some thin steel plate and not a blemish would be on the brick.

Surface Area, thickness, and hardness are just some of the factors in determining when an object can dent another, not hardness alone. Hell there all some metals tougher than others but are more malleable.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
but caps sheild is VERY thick in the middle, as thick as mjolnir if u look carefuly i laugh-vomited on this one; i laughed till vomit spewed out, but i kept laughing despite the partial asphyxia.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i laugh-vomited on this one; i laughed till vomit spewed out, but i kept laughing despite the partial asphyxia. http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/729/pwnedk.jpg

take THAT n choke on ur vomit sukaaaaa

don't make me show you the actual diagram of the shield.

the thickest part of the shield is from the middle to the bottom of the strap handles, something like 3 inches.

i hope the shadow caused by the concave disk shape isn't confusing you....

Before you know it, heat vision will go straight through Juggernaut's shields.

Imperiex probes turned out to be jobbers and nothing more. They're like the freaking anti-bodies Ego procudes or Galactus' punishers. Zomfg in the first appearance and then, not so much

Originally posted by psycho gundam
superman from owaw was pretty damn impressive to me, either the writers nerfed him in the konvikt debacle or he was on roids in owaw. *shrugs*

owaw supes would have eaten konvikt for breakfast.

OWAW Superman was not nerfed for Konvikt, what the hell. He's was strong for a brief period and then it stopped. We've seen glimpses of his skills then, but it's mostly gone. Nor do I see the big difference in Superman's behaviour. He was allowed to kill the Imperiex Probes. Superman doesn't kill humanoids, there's no logical reason why he would fight that way against living creatures.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
no but your making crapiest argument by sayin teh writers made a unique weapon ALL 4 NOTHING (since its weaker then somethin which earth can make in large quantity (adamatium))

i mean if so-call "legendary" hammer is weaker then somethin which can be mass-produce on earth then what is it that make it legendary? oh yeah thats right NOTHIN so basicaly your sayin the writers did this all for nothin & ****ed up big time

m'man, the 'writers' spent as MUCH time making cap's shield every BIT as 'legendary' as thor's hammer, and they have gone to a lot more trouble stating over and over again that it is indestructible. so . . . did all THOSE writers f up too?? can't believe you can't see how ludicrous your argument is . . .



no. and if he had, it was humanity that figured out how to create the first cosmic cube . . .



huh?

you said cap's shield is as thick as mjollnir in the middle . . . i suppose you're acknowledging the idiocy of that statement . . .?



i think i hear an angel singing somewhere!!!! the boy has seen the light!!

i'll agree it's close and respect your opinion (who'd a thunk it?? ) and disagree with it.

i can also agree with the idea that a slugfest could very well end in a stalemate. the only option would be for dd to evolve some form of attack we've never seen from him before that would allow him to destroy the armor itself or attack the host.





it only needs to house a soul. it is hollow, but that doesn't mean it isn't thick. not sure we've seen the width of its armor shown on-panel. possible, but i don't recall it off-hand.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Knocking it down

meh, it had been knocked down previously in the battle.



yep. i said in my first post it was briefly distracted . . .



yep. but had thor not done . . . SOMETHING (he certainly did some harm) to the destroyer, the soul inside couldn't have escaped.

Originally posted by leonidas
m'man, the 'writers' spent as MUCH time making cap's shield every BIT as 'legendary' as thor's hammer, and they have gone to a lot more trouble stating over and over again that it is indestructible. so . . . did all THOSE writers f up too?? can't believe you can't see how ludicrous your argument is . . .that argument wasnt about the sheild (it wuz about adamatium only) try pay more atention to topic k?

i said i agree the sheild is legendery in fact its even MORE legendery then the hammer cuz its one of a kind and the hammer aint
not that i say the sheild is harder but at least that woud make SOME sense so i coud accept that


i only say the hammers harder cuz everytime the sheild & hammer meet, sheild gets damaged & not the hammer. coincidance?

actualy i wuz gonna edit to "allmost as thick" but the fockin 15 minute rule ment i coudnt edit so blame the forum & not me

Originally posted by leonidas

it only needs to house a soul. it is hollow, but that doesn't mean it isn't thick. not sure we've seen the width of its armor shown on-panel. possible, but i don't recall it off-hand. i dunno that armor kinda look like the knight armors from medeval periods like a giant tincan or somethin

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8374/destoryer.jpg

i mean it cant posibly be thick orelse how coud it move? not practical esp. in combat

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
that argument wasnt about the sheild (it wuz about adamatium only) try pay more atention to topic k?



my original post was regarding cap's shield. i never made any mention at all about adamantium, so how about instead of ME staying on topic, YOU try to read a post or 2 once in a while.



the writers at marvel are probably writing their thank yous to you right now . . .



you've never been able to understand the issue here, eh? maybe one day . . . anyway, again--the hammer is far thicker AND is delivering the force. the shield is absorbing it. ouallada, h1 and i have all tried explaining it to you, but you just . . . don't get it. dontgetit

i wonder what a hammer made of the shield's alloy could do to mjollnir if mjollnir were laid flat on the ground and thor swung the alloy hammer with all his might at mjollnir? i have a pretty good idea of what would happen . . .



stop writing before you think and these things wouldn't happen.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
i dunno that armor kinda look like the knight armors from medeval periods like a giant tincan or somethin

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8374/destoryer.jpg

i mean it cant posibly be thick orelse how coud it move? not practical esp. in combat

thing. grey gargoyle. colossus.

Originally posted by leonidas

you've never been able to understand the issue here, eh? maybe one day . . . anyway, again--the hammer is far thickeri showd a scan where sheilds way thicker then u say, how bout u show a scan where it shows your right? nope its u guys who dont get it tho i try sevral times : its a COLISION
ever herd of somethin call INERTIAL FRAME OF REFERENCE? yup yup 1 of 2 things, ether both hammers break, or only sheild-alloy-hammer breaks
(prolly both break)

Originally posted by leonidas
thing. grey gargoyle. colossus.

? dunno about grey gargoyle
thing & colosus not same thing
nether of them are armor platin. even colosus metal aint rigid its just...malable...like carbonadium IMO
btw check the shoulder plates on destroyer it clearly shows their thin, the rest of armors prolly the same

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, it had been knocked down previously in the battle.



yep. i said in my first post it was briefly distracted . . .



yep. but had thor not done . . . SOMETHING (he certainly did some harm) to the destroyer, the soul inside couldn't have escaped.

Yeah i know he had to do something, what im saying is that the destroyer wasnt koed. Thors hit on the destroyer at that point broke its grip on the mans consciousness and allowed the man to escape because he was at that time struggling for control within the destroyer and the fact that hercules had just found his real body. The destroyer had been knocked down previously in the battle but the host consciousness was completely under the destroyers control on those previous occasions so it couldnt have escaped.

Therefore the conditions that made the escape possible were the host struggling for control over his consciousness and causing the hesistation because of his friends appeal,the finding of the host body by hercules and bringing it to the battlefield,...and then thors strike on the destroyer which knocked it down and gave the host the chance to escape back into his body.

These conditions wouldnt apply if the host was willingly controlling the destroyer and hence wouldnt be struggling to escape.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
i showd a scan where sheilds way thicker then u say, how bout u show a scan where it shows your right?



the shadow of the shield DID confuse you, eh? if you are seriously telling me you think the shield is as think as the hammer, i may well report you for sheer stupidity. and i've never reported ANYONE before . . .



sure, but i also know YOU don't know what it means. as alwasys everyone EXCEPT you is wrong. what else is new?



then let's say the alloy hammer has been made to be several times larger/thicker than mjollnir. or let's flatten mjollnir to a couple inches thick and leave the alloy hammer's size unchanged. you probably STILL think the alloy hammer would break eh? see, pointless, hence end of argument.

it's been every bit as funny as it's always been.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
? dunno about grey gargoyle
thing & colosus not same thing
nether of them are armor platin. even colosus metal aint rigid its just...malable...like carbonadium IMO
btw check the shoulder plates on destroyer it clearly shows their thin, the rest of armors prolly the same

why aren't thing and gargoyle the same again? both are solid stone but mve just fine. and . . . colossus's armor is "malleable??"

seriously, you really should be banned for propagating stupidity and as a preventative measure against a kmc wide retardation pandemic.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
OWAW Superman was not nerfed for Konvikt, what the hell. He's was strong for a brief period and then it stopped. We've seen glimpses of his skills then, but it's mostly gone. Nor do I see the big difference in Superman's behaviour. He was allowed to kill the Imperiex Probes. Superman doesn't kill humanoids, there's no logical reason why he would fight that way against living creatures. i see you stopped reading after "supes was nerfed to fight konvikt".

Originally posted by leonidas


the shadow of the shield DID confuse you, eh? if you are seriously telling me you think the shield is as think as the hammer, i may well report you for sheer stupidity. and i've never reported ANYONE before . . .say u ammesic or somethin i said ALMOST
"shadow" lulz k prove its a shadow show ANTOHER scan wich shows how thick is the sheild if u can so basicly u dont know wut it means
yo guess what u got somethin right! yo first u gotta prove the sheilds way thinner then the hammer
cmon d00d just a scan, a bio, anythin...O WAIT U CANT CUZ MAYBE IT AINT TRUE HUH? Originally posted by leonidas
why aren't thing and gargoyle the same again? both are solid stone but mve just fine. and . . . colossus's armor is "malleable??"
yeah maleable u know like silver surfers amor, like oposite of "rigid"? U MEAN FOR QUOTING UR POSTS?

stop lying, you're not that dumb.

lol at this shield being as thick as hammer nonsense

Originally posted by leonidas


the shadow of the shield DID confuse you, eh? k so thats wut i ment see i made dat pic just 4 u :

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7793/xsecton.jpg

its call a CROSSECTION

KThor dentin the sheild & this scan showin crossection of the sheild is teh main reason why im sayin the hammers stronger

IMO it dont look like its only shadow or somethin
if u got better scan showin how thick is the sheild then go ahead

Er Soul devourer, is that scan ur showing supposed to be ur instance of King Thor dentin the shield with mjolnir?

no this after RKT use his HV or somethin on the sheild
i also posted scan of KT dentin the sheild...ima see if i can find the link again

so u think the sheild is harder then the hammer?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
no this after RKT use his HV or somethin on the sheild
i also posted scan of KT dentin the sheild...ima see if i can find the link again

so u think the sheild is harder then the hammer?

Not Rune King Thor, just King Thor.

It's been a year or so and you still haven't learned the difference.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
stop lying, you're not that dumb.

have you met him?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
k so thats wut i ment see i made dat pic just 4 u :

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7793/xsecton.jpg

its call a CROSSECTION

KThor dentin the sheild & this scan showin crossection of the sheild is teh main reason why im sayin the hammers stronger

IMO it dont look like its only shadow or somethin
if u got better scan showin how thick is the sheild then go ahead

good gawd. you really can NOT be as dumb as you come across here. seriously.

look how the 'black' (anyone with above toilet bowl level intelligence would call it a SHADOW!!) extends BEYOND the shield at the bottom. so, what, the bottom/inside of the shield extends BEYOND it's rim now??

you gotta just be playin, but i don't get why you'd WANT everyone to think you're as dumb as you are pretending to be. in truth though, no one's buying it i don't think. why? cuz NO ONE can be that dumb.

anyhow, just in case, reported for stupidity AND back on ignore. your posts hurt my eyes.

Originally posted by leonidas

more shit not worth quotin & blah blah
aint me fault those dumb****s dont know how 2 draw things right

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Not Rune King Thor, just King Thor. i ment the part where he use his HV blast on the sheild (not the one where he dent it)
that wuz RUNE king thor he stil had the runes right?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
i ment the part where he use his HV blast on the sheild (not the one where he dent it)
that wuz RUNE king thor he stil had the runes right?

Happened years before Thor learned about runes.

lol

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
k so thats wut i ment see i made dat pic just 4 u :

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7793/xsecton.jpg

its call a CROSSECTION

KThor dentin the sheild & this scan showin crossection of the sheild is teh main reason why im sayin the hammers stronger

IMO it dont look like its only shadow or somethin
if u got better scan showin how thick is the sheild then go ahead love it!

keep up the good work.

^ Cap's shield dimensions are pretty straightforward. It's shaped like a discus. The middle portion isn't really that much thicker than the outer portions.
Originally posted by Galan007
a.) the heroes the imperiex probe owned were defending earth. to assume they were half-ass fighting goes against their very nature. furthermore, most of the heroes involved in that saga were written quite uber - for instance, that's the same arc kyle held a big bang in, etc.

b.) keep in mind that along with the heroes previously mentioned, darkseid and the whole of apokolips, mongul and the whole of war world, zod and his guard, etc. were easily swatted to the side by probes.

c.) during "doomsday wars" , doomsday collectively owned kyle, flash, orion /w/ astro force, j'onn, dianna, plastic man, superman, etc. with a ridiculous amount of ease. thus, it's perfectly logical to assume he was >> the combined JLA, based on previously established feats. a.) I don't remember any hero being written uber other than Superman or Kyle. And Kyle's OWAW-connected one-shot specifically focused on his unconscious tapping into the Ion power.

b.) Really? I'm not being sarcastic, as I find your interpretations to be quite solid most of the time, but I don't remember them being swatted.

c.) Considering that Superman was surpassing Doomsday in OWAW and clearly not doing so in Doomsday Wars, I think you're conflating the two performances.
Originally posted by h1a8
It has been noted that a few beings are key to the stability of reality are immune to the Omega Effect. This is why Superman has survived it. Cyborg has Superman's dna and is the reason he survived it too.Omega Effect hasn't worked on heat vision, Green Lantern forcefields, Wonder Woman's bracelets, etc.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
c.) Considering that Superman was surpassing Doomsday in OWAW and clearly not doing so in Doomsday Wars, I think you're conflating the two performances. that portion of my post focused solely on doomsday, and was meant to explain the fact that a previous version of him had already beaten the combined JLA. that said, his OWAW version should have been even >.

i also wonder how you gathered that superman was surpassing doomsday in OWAW..?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Omega Effect hasn't worked on heat vision, Green Lantern forcefields, Wonder Woman's bracelets, etc. ...firestorm's construct.

Originally posted by Galan007
that portion of my post focused solely on doomsday, and was meant to explain the fact that a previous version of him had already beaten the combined JLA. that said, his OWAW version should have been even >.

i also wonder how you gathered that superman was surpassing doomsday in OWAW..?Doomsday was depicted as one-shotting the Imperiex probes in the brief action montage scene. Trying to correlate the relative ownage between the two scenes is still too wide for me to accept under the purview of suspension of disbelief. I think most people recognize that the Imperiex probes were initially presented as uber when shown individually but immediately fell victim to the general Red Shirt Effect/Inverse Ninja Law whereby they became less formidable and much more vulnerable as soon as they showed up in larger numbers.

Superman survived Imperiex handblast. Doomsday was incinerated. Superman was also fighting far longer than Doomsday and still kept pace with him.
Originally posted by Galan007
...firestorm's construct. Forgot about that. Still makes me facepalm.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Doomsday was depicted as one-shotting the Imperiex probes in the brief action montage scene. Trying to correlate the relative ownage between the two scenes is still too wide for me to accept under the purview of suspension of disbelief. I think most people recognize that the Imperiex probes were initially presented as uber when shown individually but immediately fell victim to the general Red Shirt Effect/Inverse Ninja Law whereby they became less formidable and much more vulnerable as soon as they showed up in larger numbers.

Superman survived Imperiex handblast. Doomsday was incinerated. Superman was also fighting far longer than Doomsday and still kept pace with him. i understand where you're coming from. however, i cannot recall it ever being stated that the imperiex probes grew weaker as OWAW progressed. thus i believe it's more logical to assume their power levels stayed consistent throughout the ordeal.

that's incorrect, actually. imperiex' blast never touched supes..

after atomizing doomsday, imperiex fires a blast at superman:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6936/imp0.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2042/imp1k.jpg
---
BUT... before the blast could destroy him, he was teleported to apokolips via darkseid:
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7995/imp2.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/843/imp3v.jpg
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8932/imp5.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
i understand where you're coming from. however, i cannot recall it ever being stated that the imperiex probes grew weaker as OWAW progressed. thus i believe it's more logical to assume their power levels stayed consistent throughout the ordeal.The absence of any express proof that the Imperiex probes were being nerfed does not nullify the obvious presentation of the comic. The Red Shirt Effect/Inverse Ninja Law is never expressly stated. It's just how things work from a writer's perspective when you realize that you need to create suspense and/or pull away from the enormity of the odds your own writing has created for itself. Writers compromising their plot and/or characters for convenience is neither a novel, nor forbidden idea.
Originally posted by Galan007
that's incorrect, actually. imperiex' blast never touched supes..

after atomizing doomsday, imperiex fires a blast at superman:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6936/imp0.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2042/imp1k.jpg
---
BUT... before the blast could destroy him, he was teleported to apokolips via darkseid:
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7995/imp2.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/843/imp3v.jpg
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8932/imp5.jpg I've always personally made a moderate allowance for the possibility that the scan should be interpreted as Superman being teleported as he was being blasted by Imperiex and not before. Especially considering that Superman's cape survives the blast, so why wouldn't Superman himself be able to survive it for a short time before he's teleported?

But it's somewhat validating to know that you agree with my initial interpretation that Superman was saved and never tanked the same blast that Doomsday took since that interpretation is something that I've actually strenuously argued myself in other Superman vs. threads in the past.

Either way, Superman was fighting long before Doomsday came on and Superman was keeping pace if you wish to debate this further.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The absence of any express proof that the Imperiex probes were being nerfed does not nullify the obvious presentation of the comic. The Red Shirt Effect/Inverse Ninja Law is never expressly stated. It's just how things work from a writer's perspective when you realize that you need to create suspense and/or pull away from the enormity of the odds your own writing has created for itself. Writers compromising their plot and/or characters for convenience is neither a novel, nor forbidden idea. superman stated that his 'cutting loose' is what was allowing him to destroy the probes alongside doomsday. he also stated that IF he had 'cut loose' when the probes attacked earth, many lives could have been saved. to me that implies the probes were written consistently the same.

either way, i'm not going to assume things.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I've always personally made a moderate allowance for the possibility that the scan should be interpreted as Superman being teleported as he was being blasted by Imperiex and not before. Especially considering that Superman's cape survives the blast, so why wouldn't Superman himself be able to survive it for a short time before he's teleported?

But it's somewhat validating to know that you agree with my initial interpretation that Superman was saved and never tanked the same blast that Doomsday took since that interpretation is something that I've actually strenuously argued myself in other Superman vs. threads.

Either way, Superman was fighting long before Doomsday came on and Superman was keeping pace if you wish to debate this further. superman was 'spared the killing blow' doomsday was not. that instance is not a prime indicator that supes was > doomsday equal to? sure. but greater? not imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
superman stated that his 'cutting loose' is what was allowing him to destroy the probes alongside doomsday. he also stated that IF he had 'cut loose' when the probes attacked earth, so many could have been saved. this to me implies the probes were written consistently the same.

either way, i'm not going to assume things.He also "wondered" how many could have been saved. Nitpicking yes. But if you would have me focus on specific statements within the four corners of the comic to the exclusion of my comic-reading sensibilities (a form of nitpicking itself), you should also take pause and give equal weight to Imperiex's own proclamations:

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/imp7.jpg

Specifically when he addresses Superman and states that he "pushed back one of my emissaries." "One?" Really? Just "one?" Considering that Superman blew through several dozen probes right in front of Imperiex, it makes you wonder whether or not the writers intended there to be some differentiation between the encounter Superman faced on Earth and the subsequent encounters that Superman and Doomsday faced in space. In either case, giving full weight to any and all statements within the four corners of the comic leads to all sorts of speculation.

And in these cases, many years of reading comics has informed me that the Red Shirt Effect/Inverse Ninja Law is very real in comics and can easily be associated with this scene. Certainly, it's not a stretch, especially considering that these theories aren't even necessarily invalidated by the presence of conflicting self-aggrandizing statements.
Originally posted by Galan007
superman was 'spared the killing blow' doomsday was not. thus that instance in not a prime indicator that supes was > doomsday equal to? sure. but greater? not imo. As I said, an interpretation I've always previously subscribed to against Superman proponents in past threads. Refreshing, really to know that you agree with me.

But considering what Superman had gone through the entirety of OWAW beforehand, his keeping pace without any signs of slowing down or windedness is evidently greater to some degree.