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Current Punisher vs Daredevil, could Punisher win now?

daredevil stomp

Oh god its a sock.

oh god its a punisher fanboy didnt know those even exist

snicker

DD

Think hes recent showings change anything?

DD, he's a league above.

What kind of upgrade did Frank get?

Originally posted by -Pr-
What kind of upgrade did Frank get?

More weapons.

Originally posted by Face of Olympus
More weapons.

And DD is now the owner of the Hand

H2H I would say Matt, but Frank would give him a run for his money.

Originally posted by -Pr-
What kind of upgrade did Frank get?

Well in general his feats are much better especially damage soak. Recently hes stalemated Deadpool and Kraven. He did pretty well against a bloodlusted Spiderman but weapons were involved it was impressive considering he hadn't slept for weeks.

Originally posted by Deadline
Well in general his feats are much better especially damage soak. Recently hes stalemated Deadpool and Kraven. He did pretty well against a bloodlusted Spiderman but weapons were involved it was impressive considering he hadn't slept for weeks.

oh, right...

DD definitely wins but not without a good fight. Also, Frank's fight with Deadpool isnt a best example, Wade was messing around and holding back while Frank wanted him dead. And what's the difference between classic Frank and current one? He was always written as capable of fighting guys like Bullseye.

Originally posted by SamZED
Wade was messing around and holding back while Frank wanted him dead.


DP always messes around.

Originally posted by SamZED

And what's the difference between classic Frank and current one? He was always written as capable of fighting guys like Bullseye.

No he wasn't. In fact the series were Punisher beats Bullseye is another example of were Punisher is written to a highier caliber.

Originally posted by Deadline
DP always messes around. Ok more than usually then, DP can mess around while going all out. That wasnt the case during the fight.
Originally posted by Deadline

No he wasn't. In fact the series were Punisher beats Bullseye is another example of were Punisher is written to a highier caliber. He also put up a fight against Daredevil several times in the past.

Originally posted by SamZED
Ok more than usually then, DP can mess around while going all out. That wasnt the case during the fight.

How was he messing around more than usual?

Originally posted by SamZED

He also put up a fight against Daredevil several times in the past.

Bullseye is second tier. Kraven, Deadpool and Daken are all arguably top tier. Also there are quite a few Punisher feats that aren't that impressive that would suggest people like Kraven would kick his arse eg look at fight with Kingpin and Paladin.

Originally posted by Deadline
How was he messing around more than usual?
When he broke Frank's nose and instead of hitting him 10 more times stopped and was like "ow did you break your nose?" leaving himself open. That's a very dumb thing to do when you're fighting punisher. For example the first time they fought when Deadpool was hired to kill Frank they fell ot of a window and Deadpool started punching him in the face non-stop until some guy stopped him. He was messing around then as well, but was taking it seriously. Probably because it was a job for him the first time.

Originally posted by Deadline

Bullseye is second tier. Kraven, Deadpool and Daken are all arguably top tier. Also there are quite a few Punisher feats that aren't that impressive that would suggest people like Kraven would kick his arse eg look at fight with Kingpin and Paladin. True. But there was no official upgrade, so I guess they're just writing him to his fullest potential these days.

Originally posted by SamZED
When he broke Frank's nose and instead of hitting him 10 more times stopped and was like "ow did you break your nose?" leaving himself open. That's a very dumb thing to do when you're fighting punisher. For example the first time they fought when Deadpool was hired to kill Frank they fell ot of a window and Deadpool started punching him in the face non-stop until some guy stopped him. He was messing around then as well, but was taking it seriously. Probably because it was a job for him the first time.

You are overanalysing mate. Im pretty sure there are lots of examples of DP doing similar shit. When he fought Shang he acted like an idiot as well, he hesitated when fighting Tiger Shark etc. When he was fighting Wolverine he stood there and was laughing at him. No that doesn't prove he was messing around more than usual.

Omigod look DP's messing around more than usual. Hell it wasn't even hard for me to find.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5601/deadpool02p20.jpg

Originally posted by SamZED

True. But there was no official upgrade, so I guess they're just writing him to his fullest potential these days.

I didn't say he had an upgrade.

Originally posted by Deadline
You are overanalysing mate. Im pretty sure there are lots of examples of DP doing similar shit. When he fought Shang he acted like an idiot as well, he hesitated when fighting Tiger Shark etc. When he was fighting Wolverine he stood there and was laughing at him. No that doesn't prove he was messing around more than usual.

Omigod look DP's messing around more than usual. Hell it wasn't even hard for me to find.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5601/deadpool02p20.jpg
Actually that wasnt him messing more than usual, that was the only way for him to beat Taskmaster - to fight like a psycho. Also, what are you talking about? DP never fought Shang Chi. Whenever he fought Wolverine (6 times) he never stopped during a fight to mock him (not counting the origins fight because that's the book where he got his extra voices and was hallucinating most of the fight, not to mention his main plan was to get Wolverine to fall for his traps instead of just fight him.) He didnt do anything like that when he fought Sabertooth (twice) or when he fought Daredevil and Siler Sable at the same time. So yeah, he wasn't just messing around, he was fighting like an idiot that time, leaving himself open for an attack and he normally doesnt do that when going all out, even if he doesnt want to kill his opponent.

Originally posted by SamZED
Actually that wasnt him messing more than usual, that was the only way for him to beat Taskmaster - to fight like a psycho.


LOL thats got nothing to do with him fighting like a pyscho. He kicked Tasky in the face and stopped to mock him. Thats the samething he did when he was fighting Punisher. What on earth are you talking about.

Originally posted by SamZED

Also, what are you talking about? DP never fought Shang Chi. Whenever he fought Wolverine (6 times) he never stopped during a fight to mock him (not counting the origins fight because that's the book where he got his extra voices and was hallucinating most of the fight, not to mention his main plan was to get Wolverine to fall for his traps instead of just fight him.) He didnt do anything like that when he fought Sabertooth (twice) or when he fought Daredevil and Siler Sable at the same time. So yeah, he wasn't just messing around, he was fighting like an idiot that time, leaving himself open for an attack and he normally doesnt do that when going all out, even if he doesnt want to kill his opponent.

Shen Kuei. He didn't leave himself open you are exaggerating. He stopped to mock him.

Originally posted by Deadline
LOL thats got nothing to do with him fighting like a pyscho. He kicked Tasky in the face and stopped to mock him. Thats the samething he did when he was fighting Punisher. What on earth are you talking about. Im talking about the reason he fought like that. He only mocked him after Tasky was defeated, not during the fight. And he was dancing and fighting like crazy because he realised that's the only way to stop Taskmaster from unticipating his moves and beat him. He wasn't messing around, that was his strategy to beat TM.


Originally posted by Deadline

Shen Kuei. He didn't leave himself open you are exaggerating. He stopped to mock him. He stopped DURING the fight and got in close in order to mock Frank, close enough for Frank to bite his nose off. He didnt take Frank seriously and paid for it. Have you ever seen him try something like that with Logan, Creed or Daredevil? So im not exaggerating. Shen Kuei is a different story, Deadpool is actually a Cat fanboy, heck most of the time he wasnt fighting at all, but trying to look at his tattoo.

Originally posted by SamZED
Im talking about the reason he fought like that. He only mocked him after Tasky was defeated, not during the fight. And he was dancing and fighting like crazy because he realised that's the only way to stop Taskmaster from unticipating his moves and beat him. He wasn't messing around, that was his strategy to beat TM.

Thats NOT what im talking about and thats irrelevant. DP stopped to mock TM. Here it is again.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5601/deadpool02p20.jpg

Originally posted by SamZED

He stopped DURING the fight and got in close in order to mock Frank, close enough for Frank to bite his nose off.

You are exaggerating Punisher had to reach over to bite it off. Its not like his face was directly next to it Punisher had to reach.

http://h.imagehost.org/view/0901/suicide10

DP didn't react fast enough tough shit.

Originally posted by SamZED

He didnt take Frank seriously and paid for it. Have you ever seen him try something like that with Logan, Creed or Daredevil? So im not exaggerating.


Has DP ever stunned them by smashing their face into the ground? If he did he probably would.

Originally posted by SamZED
Shen Kuei is a different story, Deadpool is actually a Cat fanboy, heck most of the time he wasnt fighting at all, but trying to look at his tattoo.

Ok.

Originally posted by Deadline
Thats NOT what im talking about and thats irrelevant. DP stopped to mock TM. Here it is again.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5601/deadpool02p20.jpg
He started mocking him on the last pannel before landing the last punch. Taskmaster was beaten already, he couldn't get up, he was done. DP didnt mock him during the fight.

Originally posted by Deadline

You are exaggerating Punisher had to reach over to bite it off. Its not like his face was directly next to it Punisher had to reach.

http://h.imagehost.org/view/0901/suicide10

DP didn't react fast enough tough shit.
Frank was on his knees and Wade was holding him by the head, Deadpool didnt attack again, he leaned forward to him in order to mock him. Its clear he understimated Frank, didnt take him as a serious threat. And paid for it..

Originally posted by Deadline


Has DP ever stunned them by smashing their face into the ground? If he did he probably would. Deadpool has thrown Frank out of a window before after stabbing him with a knife, he knows it'd take much more than breaking his nose to beat him. When DP fought Sabertooth the second time, Creed was injured, full of bullets and bleeding all over the place. Still Deadpool fought him with everything he's got, he didn't stop in order to mock him.

Daredevil
10/10

I would like to direct everyone to Daredevil vs. Punisher where Punisher more or less says that he can't compete with the far up a mountain Eastern stuff and that his basic strategy is to try to keep DD away from him and try not to take punches.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I would like to direct everyone to Daredevil vs. Punisher where Punisher more or less says that he can't compete with the far up a mountain Eastern stuff and that his basic strategy is to try to keep DD away from him and try not to take punches.

Mate that doesnt prove anything because since Fraction/Remender Frank has gotten alot better. Furthermore DD ended up getting badly beaten up in that series.

Daredevil wins even though Franks damage soak is uber

Originally posted by Deadline
Mate that doesnt prove anything because since Fraction/Remender Frank has gotten alot better. Furthermore DD ended up getting badly beaten up in that series.

Are we talking about the same series? DD got a bit singed by Bushwacker, but that's about it.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
Are we talking about the same series? DD got a bit singed by Bushwacker, but that's about it.

Yeah im talking about the same series. In their last fight DD got badly beaten up..

I'll have to reread that.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I'll have to reread that.

Here you go.

Originally posted by Deadline
Punishers last fight with DD. DD would have probably won but Frank really ****ed him up.

Punishers last fight with DD

Dammit was supposed to go earlier on but I missed it now the organization of the thread is messed up **** durhulk

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6821/daredevilvspunisher6057ib1.th.jpg
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5804/daredevilvspunisher6069la3.th.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8384/daredevilvspunisher6074jr2.th.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7935/daredevilvspunisher6089cw0.th.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2938/daredevilvspunisher6116mz5.th.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3186/daredevilvspunisher6120kb9.th.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8446/daredevilvspunisher6139oj7.th.jpg

Originally posted by SamZED
He started mocking him on the last pannel before landing the last punch. Taskmaster was beaten already, he couldn't get up, he was done. DP didnt mock him during the fight.


Yes he was mocking him look at the last panel.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5601/deadpool02p20.jpg

Originally posted by SamZED

Frank was on his knees and Wade was holding him by the head, Deadpool didnt attack again, he leaned forward to him in order to mock him. Its clear he understimated Frank, didnt take him as a serious threat. And paid for it..

You can argue that he put his guard down for a second, but to argue he didn't take him serioulsy was crap. Again his head wasn't that close Punisher had to reach over and grab it.

Originally posted by SamZED

Deadpool has thrown Frank out of a window before after stabbing him with a knife, he knows it'd take much more than breaking his nose to beat him. When DP fought Sabertooth the second time, Creed was injured, full of bullets and bleeding all over the place. Still Deadpool fought him with everything he's got, he didn't stop in order to mock him.

He wasn't trying to kill him but that doesn't mean he wasn't taking him serioulsy. You are exaggerating.

Originally posted by Deadline
DP always messes around.



No he wasn't. In fact the series were Punisher beats Bullseye is another example of were Punisher is written to a highier caliber. he did'nt beat bullsyes in punisher vs bullseye . He won the h2h portion but lets not forget that punisher was'nt bullseye's real target.

Originally posted by godking
he did'nt beat bullsyes in punisher vs bullseye . He won the h2h portion but lets not forget that punisher was'nt bullseye's real target.

How is that relevant this is a h2h thread.

What I see from your scan is that clearly, someone would've won, and it isn't Frankie.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yes he was mocking him look at the last panel.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5601/deadpool02p20.jpg The one where Taskmaster is already beaten and on his knees from DP's last attack, which was my point. He didn't do it untill Tasky was no longer able to fight back.


Originally posted by Deadline

You can argue that he put his guard down for a second, but to argue he didn't take him serioulsy was crap. Again his head wasn't that close Punisher had to reach over and grab it. You make it sound like he got up or jumped or something, he just turned his head and stretched his neck while being on his knees. Are you really gonna argue the fact that Deadpool undesrtimated him? Because it's clear from the scan, as clear as that he wasn't going all out or he would've hit him 10 more times instead of stopping and making jokes. What's your point anyway? That Frank = or > Deadpool in h2h?

Originally posted by Deadline

He wasn't trying to kill him but that doesn't mean he wasn't taking him serioulsy. You are exaggerating. He clearly was. Also trying NOT to kill an opponent in a fight = holding back for Deadpool concidering he can break a guy's neck with a punch. Not to mention evidence from the book that he wasnt going all out.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
What I see from your scan is that clearly, someone would've won, and it isn't Frankie.

Your serioulsy missing the point. It was a close fight and current Punisher is better than the one shown in the scans.

Originally posted by SamZED
The one where Taskmaster is already beaten and on his knees from DP's last attack, which was my point. He didn't do it untill Tasky was no longer able to fight back.

You don't listen do you? Im NOT talking about that one. You see thats your whole problem im trying to direct you to a certain part of the fight but you keep talking about a different part because that suits your argument.

I don't want to show you the scan again. DP kicks Tasky in the face and stops breifly to mock him. Stopping to mock somebody doesn't neccasrily mean you are not taking it serioulsy or underestimate your opponent.

What the hell do you call this?

http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/?action=view&current=dpsk_05_004.jpg

You think DP wasn't taking it serioulsy? He still stopped to gawk at Spiderman flying in the air and got clobbered.

Originally posted by SamZED

You make it sound like he got up or jumped or something, he just turned his head and stretched his neck while being on his knees. Are you really gonna argue the fact that Deadpool undesrtimated him?


No im not making it sound like that at all. Im not saying it was miles away but if you look at the scans he didn't just turn his neck and stretch, he had to reach for DP's head and pull it down.....thats why Punisher hand is on DP's head.

Yes I could argue that he didn't underestimate him because DP frequently does crazy shit when hes fighting.

Originally posted by SamZED
Because it's clear from the scan, as clear as that he wasn't going all out or he would've hit him 10 more times instead of stopping and making jokes. What's your point anyway? That Frank = or > Deadpool in h2h?

Thats pure speculation. DP makes jokes all the time. If it was anybody else he would have probably done the samething.

Originally posted by SamZED

He clearly was. Also trying NOT to kill an opponent in a fight = holding back for Deadpool concidering he can break a guy's neck with a punch. Not to mention evidence from the book that he wasnt going all out.

This is a h2h thread weapons are not allowed. Its a fine line between wanting to kill somebody or beat the crap out of them.

Yes what a brilliant argument. DP can snap a guys neck with a punch and obvoulsy Punisher is a regular guy that can't take superhuman shots.....wow.

Originally posted by Deadline
You don't listen do you? Im NOT talking about that one. You see thats your whole problem im trying to direct you to a certain part of the fight but you keep talking about a different part because that suits your argument.

I don't want to show you the scan again. DP kicks Tasky in the face and stops breifly to mock him. Stopping to mock somebody doesn't neccasrily mean you are not taking it serioulsy or underestimate your opponent.

What the hell do you call this?

http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/?action=view&current=dpsk_05_004.jpg

You think DP wasn't taking it serioulsy? He still stopped to gawk at Spiderman flying in the air and got clobbered.



No im not making it sound like that at all. Im not saying it was miles away but if you look at the scans he didn't just turn his neck and stretch, he had to reach for DP's head and pull it down.....thats why Punisher hand is on DP's head.

Yes I could argue that he didn't underestimate him because DP frequently does crazy shit when hes fighting.



Thats pure speculation. DP makes jokes all the time. If it was anybody else he would have probably done the samething.



This is a h2h thread weapons are not allowed. Its a fine line between wanting to kill somebody or beat the crap out of them.

Yes what a brilliant argument. DP can snap a guys neck with a punch and obvoulsy Punisher is a regular guy that can't take superhuman shots.....wow.
Im NOT changing the subject to suit my argument i honsetly dont understand what the heck you're talking about. You said on the LAST pannel AFTER the kick and if you bother to look at the NEXT scan I myself posted in his respect thread you'll see that on the next page it's clear that Taskmaster is ALREADY beaten and NOT trying to fight back. It was the very kick you've mentioned that ended the fight. Than Wade punches him again just for the heck of it. As for the scan you've posted, Deadpool was making a joke, that's what he does in case you didnt know. He wasnt mocking his opponent during a fight. Doesn't help your argument.
When Frank bit Deadpool he was on his KNEES and Deadpool was the one who PUT him on his knees after breaking his nose in order to mock him. And you're telling me THAT is an example of taking your opponent seriusly? Funny how you avoided my direct question - what's your main argument? That Punisher = or > Deadpool in h2h? If so tell me this then, you said and i quote that Punisher was "stunned" by that attack, so what do you think the outcome of the fight would've been if instead of making that joke Deadpool just hit Punisher 20 more times while he was "stunned" or snapped his neck? Because he was definitely capable of doing that at the moment. You think it would've still ended in stalemate? I wont believe that you think so for a second. Deadpool could've crushed his skull but he CHOSE not to, meaning he wasn't going all out. As in HOLDING BACK. Which was my main point all along, look at my very first post in this thread and see for yourself. And that means your attempt to use Frank stalemating Deadpool as a proof of current Punisher toughness is pointess since Deadpool was holding back. Case closed.

Originally posted by SamZED
Im NOT changing the subject to suit my argument i honsetly dont understand what the heck you're talking about. You said on the LAST pannel AFTER the kick and if you bother to look at the NEXT scan I myself posted in his respect thread you'll see that on the next page it's clear that Taskmaster is ALREADY beaten and NOT trying to fight back. It was the very kick you've mentioned that ended the fight. Than Wade punches him again just for the heck of it.


Now you're just making stuff up and making blantant assumptions. Obvoulsy the reason why he punched him was to finish him off. Thats why people punch people in fights. Now you've decided in this particular incident that he was just punching him for the heck of it. Next time I see a boxing match i'll assume they are just punching for the heck of it.

Originally posted by SamZED

As for the scan you've posted, Deadpool was making a joke, that's what he does in case you didnt know. He wasnt mocking his opponent during a fight. Doesn't help your argument.

He was mocking him. You probably narrowed down the defintion of mocking so it doesn't fit this circumstance.

Originally posted by SamZED

When Frank bit Deadpool he was on his KNEES and Deadpool was the one who PUT him on his knees after breaking his nose in order to mock him. And you're telling me THAT is an example of taking your opponent seriusly?

Um as I mentioned before 100 times before DP mocks people all the time. My Taskmaster example still stands.

Originally posted by SamZED

Funny how you avoided my direct question - what's your main argument? That Punisher = or > Deadpool in h2h?

I didn't avoid it. I just decided not to reply because im having a problem getting you to comprehend simple logic. The more points I address the more complicated this discussion gets. Im just saying that Punisher could beat DD because he gave Deadpool a good fight.

Originally posted by SamZED
If so tell me this then, you said and i quote that Punisher was "stunned" by that attack, so what do you think the outcome of the fight would've been if instead of making that joke Deadpool just hit Punisher 20 more times while he was "stunned" or snapped his neck? Because he was definitely capable of doing that at the moment. You think it would've still ended in stalemate? I wont believe that you think so for a second. Deadpool could've crushed his skull but he CHOSE not to, meaning he wasn't going all out. As in HOLDING BACK. Which was my main point all along, look at my very first post in this thread and see for yourself. And that means your attempt to use Frank stalemating Deadpool as a proof of current Punisher toughness is pointess since Deadpool was holding back. Case closed.

Um the points is you don't know if he would have done that if he was serious because he does crazy shit all the time. Again heres the scans I posted.

http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/?action=view&current=dpsk_05_004.jpg
http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/?action=view&current=dpsk_05_005.jpg

You think its intelligent to gwak at Spiderman flying through the air? I guess he wasn't taking it serioulsy.

Also Dp wouldn't eb able to snap Punisher's neck easily. I explained that to you already.

Originally posted by Deadline
Now you're just making stuff up and making blantant assumptions. Obvoulsy the reason why he punched him was to finish him off. Thats why people punch people in fights. Now you've decided in this particular incident that he was just punching him for the heck of it. Next time I see a boxing match i'll assume they are just punching for the heck of it.

He was mocking him. You probably narrowed down the defintion of mocking so it doesn't fit this circumstance.

Um as I mentioned before 100 times before DP mocks people all the time. My Taskmaster example still stands. Great. Compare a boxing match where the fight is stopped as soon as one boxer drops on his knee to a street fight where one can punch the livving crap outta opponent even after he's down.
Also whether you want to admit or not that DP talking to TM after he was beaten has nothing incommon with him mocking Punisher during the fight is irrelevant to me because unlike his fight with TM he was obviously holding back. You have nothing to argue that with.


Originally posted by Deadline

I didn't avoid it. I just decided not to reply because im having a problem getting you to comprehend simple logic. The more points I address the more complicated this discussion gets. Im just saying that Punisher could beat DD because he gave Deadpool a good fight. See now you're just making fun of my logic for God knows what reason so if anyone's making it more complicated than it has to be is you because my logic is pretty simple: Punisher stalemating Deadpool who's holding back big time does not = Punisher being > Daredevil. What's so complicated about it?

Originally posted by Deadline

Um the points is you don't know if he would have done that if he was serious because he does crazy shit all the time. Again heres the scans I posted.

http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/?action=view&current=dpsk_05_004.jpg
http://s663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/?action=view&current=dpsk_05_005.jpg

You think its intelligent to gwak at Spiderman flying through the air? I guess he wasn't taking it serioulsy. I dont know if he would've done that? 'cause the last time when Punisher got stunned in a fight with Deadpool when Wade actually WAS serious abiut it the following happened:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5778/deadpool055p12.png

He didnt stop to mock him or make a stupid joke he would've just beaten him to death if the citizen didnt interfere. You're just making an assumption here. DP could've easilly punched him to death or at least a ko after breaking his nose while Frank was stunned, but he chose not to and that = holding back. Tell me im wrong here.

Originally posted by Deadline

Also Dp wouldn't eb able to snap Punisher's neck easily. I explained that to you already. Nobody's arguing that Frank can take a lot of punishment and walk away, but he was stunned while Deadpool was standing right behind him and holding him by his head, it doesnt take one of the best killers in marvel to snap a guy's neck (even a tough one like Frank) from that position, Frank's durability wouldn't have helped him in that case.

Originally posted by SamZED
Great. Compare a boxing match where the fight is stopped as soon as one boxer drops on his knee to a street fight where one can punch the livving crap outta opponent even after he's down.
Also whether you want to admit or not that DP talking to TM after he was beaten has nothing incommon with him mocking Punisher during the fight is irrelevant to me because unlike his fight with TM he was obviously holding back. You have nothing to argue that with.


See now you're just making fun of my logic to change the subject and if anyone's making it more complicated than it has to be is you because my logic is pretty simple: Punisher stalemating Deadpool who's holding back big time does not = Punisher being > Daredevil. What's so somplicated about it?

I dont know if he would've done that? 'cause the last time when Punisher got stunned in a fight with Deadpool when Wade actually WAS serious abiut it the following happened:


He didnt stop to mock him or make a stupid joke he would've just beat him to death if the citizen didnt interfere. You're just making an assumption here. DP could've easilly punched him to death after breaking his nose while Frank was stunned, but he chose not to and that = holding back. Tell me im wrong here.

Nobody's arguing that Frank can take a lot of punishment and walk away, but he was stunned while Deadpool was standing right behind him and holding him by his head, it doesnt take one of the best killers in marvel to snap a guy's neck (even a tough one like Frank) from that position, Frank's durability wouldn't have helped him in that case.

ya toje tak dumayu

an all out daredevil will murder punisher with 1-2 hits, remember that daredevil knows deadly hits that can make his enemy bleed and even stop breathing he also got hits that he likes to call torture points, as much as punisher is known for his damage soak he cant stand against daredevil

Originally posted by SamZED
Great. Compare a boxing match where the fight is stopped as soon as one boxer drops on his knee to a street fight where one can punch the livving crap outta opponent even after he's down.


http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7494/deadpool02p21.jpg

LOL he wasn't on one knee until after he was punched but prior to that DP stopped to mock him. Obvoulsy you're assuming that Taskmaster was on his knees after DP kicked him in the face.

Originally posted by SamZED

Also whether you want to admit or not that DP talking to TM after he was beaten has nothing incommon with him mocking Punisher during the fight is irrelevant to me because unlike his fight with TM he was obviously holding back. You have nothing to argue that with.

Oh please. Yes it does in both those examples DP stops to mock his opponent. Its not that hard to comprehend.

Originally posted by SamZED

See now you're just making fun of my logic for God knows what reason so if anyone's making it more complicated than it has to be is you because my logic is pretty simple: Punisher stalemating Deadpool who's holding back big time does not = Punisher being > Daredevil. What's so complicated about it?

No you're the one making it complicated. Lets try this again. DP wanted to beat the crap out of him and its a fine line between wanting to beat the crap out of somebody and wanting to kill them. Using that logic all of Captain Americas fights are exempt..duh. See how that logic goes.

Originally posted by SamZED
I dont know if he would've done that? 'cause the last time when Punisher got stunned in a fight with Deadpool when Wade actually WAS serious abiut it the following happened:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5778/deadpool055p12.png

He didnt stop to mock him or make a stupid joke he would've just beaten him to death if the citizen didnt interfere. You're just making an assumption here. DP could've easilly punched him to death or at least a ko after breaking his nose while Frank was stunned, but he chose not to and that = holding back. Tell me im wrong here.

LOL actually he did. Obvously before he said ONE he was mocking him and we could assume its not much longer than it takes to say "Looks whos got a broken nose."

Even if that wasn't the case you only have one example. One example doesn't make a foregone conclusion, especially when ive shown you two examples of DP behaving like an idiot in serious fights.

Originally posted by SamZED

Nobody's arguing that Frank can take a lot of punishment and walk away, but he was stunned while Deadpool was standing right behind him and holding him by his head, it doesnt take one of the best killers in marvel to snap a guy's neck (even a tough one like Frank) from that position, Frank's durability wouldn't have helped him in that case.

Um I dunno about that. Frank recovered pretty quickly and Tombstone whos stronger than DP tried to throttle him and failed.

I don't have the energy to jump into the current debate. I can only assume that Alf is trying to claim Castle would either stalemate or beat Deadpool in h2h, and therefore would beat Daredevil.....

In pure h2h, Daredevil would beat Castle at least 7/10. The Punisher is a tough son-of-a-***** and strong as hell to boot, but Daredevil is faster, more skilled, and his radar sense keeps him a step ahead.

Kraven The Hunter, Deadpool and Daken are all capable of stalemating or beating Daredevil. Therefore giving DD the majority doesn't make sense to me. Also all those guys are stronger and more durable than DD and are arguably just as fast.

Originally posted by Deadline
Kraven The Hunter, Deadpool and Daken are all capable of stalemating or beating Daredevil. Therefore giving DD the majority doesn't make sense to me.

even though he has far superior skill, agility and senses?

i mean, what does frank have over him? damage soak?

Originally posted by -Pr-
even though he has far superior skill, agility and senses?

i mean, what does frank have over him? damage soak?

Castle will wait til Daredevil runs out of steam... then he goes in for the quick kill.



crackers

Originally posted by -Pr-
even though he has far superior skill, agility and senses?

The same argument could be made for Deadpool, Kraven and Daken, that still didn't stop him from stalemating DP and Kraven. Daken killed him but Punisher was already bleeding from wounds and had a broken leg. How does DD get the majority on a guy that can hold his own against somebodies whos beaten Wolverine?

Originally posted by -Pr-

i mean, what does frank have over him? damage soak?

Well that as well but hes still very fast and very skillful. As it stands DD isn't skillful enough to beat him for the majority.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Castle will wait til Daredevil runs out of steam... then he goes in for the quick kill.



crackers



Originally posted by Deadline
The same argument could be made for Deadpool, Kraven and Daken, that still didn't stop him from stalemating DP and Kraven. Daken killed him but Punisher was already bleeding from wounds and had a broken leg. How does DD get the majority on a guy that can hold his own against somebodies whos beaten Wolverine?



Well that as well but hes still very fast and very skillful. As it stands DD isn't skillful enough to beat him for the majority.

you're kidding, right?

you seriously think frank would beat matt in a h2h fight?

Originally posted by Deadline
Well that as well but hes still very fast and very skillful. As it stands DD isn't skillful enough to beat him for the majority.

So the fact that Daredevil usually beats Castle means nothing now?

Originally posted by -Pr-




you're kidding, right?

you seriously think frank would beat matt in a h2h fight?

Ok let me try again. He stalemated Kraven The Hunter. Kraven has beaten Black Panther in h2h. Somebody whos capable of beating BP in h2h is capable of either stalemating or beating DD in h2h. Its also worth noting before he fought Kraven he had fought Tiger Shark (underwater), Mandrill and taken damage from both Gargoyle and Swarm which made him pass out.

He stalemated Deadpool,Deadpool is capable of beating or stalemating DD.

He gave Daken one hell of a fight. Again Punisher had a broken leg and was bleeding before the fight. Daken IMO would beat DD.

The reason why I say he could beat DD is because previous versions of Punisher were less formidable but were still capable of giving DD one hell of a fight. The point is that Punisher is alot better and alot tougher.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
So the fact that Daredevil usually beats Castle means nothing now?

This is what I mean. Fell free to agree but you obvoulsy haven't read my arguments properly. DD usually beats Punisher in the past but Punisher has improved alot and has been beating opponents that can either beat or stalemate DD in h2h when he would have previoulsy lost to these guys. eg look at Punishers fights with Paladin and Kingpin he got mullered.

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok let me try again. He stalemated Kraven The Hunter. Kraven has beaten Black Panther in h2h. Somebody whos capable of beating BP in h2h is capable of either stalemating or beating DD in h2h. Its also worth noting before he fought Kraven he had fought Tiger Shark (underwater), Mandrill and taken damage from both Gargoyle and Swarm which made him pass out.

He stalemated Deadpool,Deadpool is capable of beating or stalemating DD.

He gave Daken one hell of a fight. Again Punisher had a broken leg and was bleeding before the fight. Daken IMO would beat DD.

The reason why I say he could beat DD is because previous versions of Punisher were less formidable but were still capable of giving DD one hell of a fight. The point is that Punisher is alot better and alot tougher.

You forgot Cap, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Ulik, Hulk, Doom....


This really isn't a discussion. DD has beaten Castle in most of their fights. It's not a farfetched outcome when you consider DD's advantages in speed, skill, and precognition (radar sense).

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
You forgot Cap, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Ulik, Hulk, Doom....


I could go into how thats faulty logic but I can see where this is heading, some of those are really terrible examples.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

This really isn't a discussion. DD has beaten Castle in most of their fights. It's not a farfetched outcome when you consider DD's advantages in speed, skill, and precognition (radar sense).

Sure.

Originally posted by Deadline
I could go into how thats faulty logic but I can see where this is heading, some of those are really terrible examples.
You don't see the irony in that statement?

I'm not trying to start another pointless argument, man. Castle will lose a majority to Daredevil in h2h. If he were armed, you'd definitely have a case for a Punisher majority. This ain't that thread though.

Originally posted by Deadline
I could go into how thats faulty logic but I can see where this is heading, some of those are really terrible examples.



Sure.

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok let me try again. He stalemated Kraven The Hunter. Kraven has beaten Black Panther in h2h. Somebody whos capable of beating BP in h2h is capable of either stalemating or beating DD in h2h. Its also worth noting before he fought Kraven he had fought Tiger Shark (underwater), Mandrill and taken damage from both Gargoyle and Swarm which made him pass out.

He stalemated Deadpool,Deadpool is capable of beating or stalemating DD.

He gave Daken one hell of a fight. Again Punisher had a broken leg and was bleeding before the fight. Daken IMO would beat DD.

The reason why I say he could beat DD is because previous versions of Punisher were less formidable but were still capable of giving DD one hell of a fight. The point is that Punisher is alot better and alot tougher.



This is what I mean. Fell free to agree but you obvoulsy haven't read my arguments properly. DD usually beats Punisher in the past but Punisher has improved alot and has been beating opponents that can either beat or stalemate DD in h2h when he would have previoulsy lost to these guys. eg look at Punishers fights with Paladin and Kingpin he got mullered.

shrug

Originally posted by -Pr-
shrug


Im not sure why you're shrugging.

Originally posted by Deadline
Im not sure why you're shrugging.

you honestly don't see him doing any way decently against daken as being major PIS?

and a lot of the rest is ABC logic.

Originally posted by -Pr-
you honestly don't see him doing any way decently against daken as being major PIS?

No I don't because he also did well against an opponent that Black Panther was that PIS well? What about Deadpool?

Its not PIS if he has the feats to back it up.

Originally posted by -Pr-

and a lot of the rest is ABC logic.

It is but in this situation its applies. You can't use Punisher's old fights against DD as proof to what will happen because Punisher is alot better so the only proof we have is his showings against other A-list fighters.

Originally posted by Deadline
No I don't because he also did well against an opponent that Black Panther was that PIS well? What about Deadpool?

Its not PIS if he has the feats to back it up.



It is but in this situation its applies. You can't use Punisher's old fights against DD as proof to what will happen because Punisher is alot better so the only proof we have is his showings against other A-list fighters.

ABC logic never applies.

their fights against each other always take precedence over fights against others, unless thare are no recent fights at all. when was the last time the two men fought each other?

Originally posted by -Pr-
ABC logic never applies.

Sometimes it does actually. When two people have never fought or hardly fought you are forced to use ABC logic. When two people have fought but when of them has changed significantly then we have to take that into account. Once you take into account that one of them has changed their previous fights do not neccasrily apply.

Originally posted by -Pr-

their fights against each other always take precedence over fights against others, unless thare are no recent fights at all. when was the last time the two men fought each other?

No not neccsarily, especially if you see that one of them has improved alot. Last fight was in 2005. That doesn't apply because the Punisher that fought DD isn't the same his feats in general are alot better, therefore you can't expect the samething to happen.

Even if you don't think that Punisher would beat DD you would at least take into account he would do better. Ignoring his feats entirely and assuming the samething would happen is faulty logic.

Originally posted by Deadline
Sometimes it does actually. When two people have never fought or hardly fought you are forced to use ABC logic. When two people have fought but when of them has changed significantly then we have to take that into account. Once you take into account that one of them has changed their previous fights do not neccasrily apply.



No not neccsarily, especially if you see that one of them has improved alot. Last fight was in 2005. That doesn't apply because the Punisher that fought DD isn't the same his feats in general are alot better, therefore you can't expect the samething to happen.

Even if you don't think that Punisher would beat DD you would at least take into account he would do better. Ignoring his feats entirely and assuming the samething would happen is faulty logic.

ABC logic =/= deduction.

2005 was four years ago. are you honestly trying to say that frank has had a massive amp since then?

i'm not assuming the same thing would happen. I simply think Matt would get the majority.

Originally posted by -Pr-
ABC logic =/= deduction.

Its not faulty logic to use his fights against the fighters I mentioned for the reasons given.

Originally posted by -Pr-

2005 was four years ago. are you honestly trying to say that frank has had a massive amp since then?

Its big enough. I know because i've done the reasearch I have shit loads of Punisher and can make comparisons.

Some of his feats in the PWJ series were >>> past versions of Punisher. I could list loads of examples.


Originally posted by -Pr-

i'm not assuming the same thing would happen. I simply think Matt would get the majority.

Are you taking his recent showings into consideration?

so his recent showings show him beating up kraven and kingpin so? you are trying to make it sound like this is a whole new punisher which isnt the case at all, you are trying to force people to ignore all the character history and just focus on his recent best showings , it was never stated he got some kind of upgrade right? it was never hinter or shown in the comics so what makes you think its a different punisher? its just that recently he got some better showings thats all the same thing was with spider-man and wolverine

so if tomorrow i will read an issue of wolverine beating up hulk then i will say hey guys this is a new improved wolverine so now when i will debate in wolverine favour i will say ignore all his history and lets only focus on the recent showing of him beating hulk because this feat suits me more in the arguments

nice try

Originally posted by Deadline
Its not faulty logic to use his fights against the fighters I mentioned for the reasons given.



Its big enough. I know because i've done the reasearch I have shit loads of Punisher and can make comparisons.

Some of his feats in the PWJ series were >>> past versions of Punisher. I could list loads of examples.




Are you taking his recent showings into consideration?

it is if they're people he shouldn't be competing with.

4 years isn't a long time. that must have been some amp.

like what, holding his own against daken?

marvel just decided to throw some good showing in punisher favour things like that happen with almost every character once in a while i dont see the big deal , facts remain the same in almost every single fight daredevil beats punisher thats it and its the same punisher unless it will be stated he went true some kind of upgrade

Originally posted by -Pr-
it is if they're people he shouldn't be competing with.

Its not faulty logic if he keeps having good feats against these opponents. That means hes really that good. Peoples showings don't always remain the same.

Originally posted by -Pr-

4 years isn't a long time. that must have been some amp.

The fact remains that within those 4 years hes improved alot. The whole premise of the new PWJ series is that Punisher is fighting superhumans and even Remender himself stated that he was basing Punisher on the classic version of Punisher. The classic version also has some of the best feats ever and could arguably beat DD as well.

Like I said I can give loads of examples.

Originally posted by -Pr-

like what, holding his own against daken?

Which isn't PIS because hes got other feats to back it up.

Originally posted by guy222
http://thumbnails12.imagebam.com/5417/58e41354167402.gif http://thumbnails12.imagebam.com/5417/01f80754167463.gif http://thumbnails12.imagebam.com/5417/7429a554167511.gif http://thumbnails20.imagebam.com/5417/69e6cd54167555.gif http://thumbnails20.imagebam.com/5417/187ff054167595.gif http://thumbnails20.imagebam.com/5417/7a26ea54167632.gif http://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/5417/e4781754167702.gif

Originally posted by guy222
http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/5417/60366154168777.gif http://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/5417/b8a0c754168797.gif http://thumbnails20.imagebam.com/5417/f618d954168817.gif http://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/5417/597ac454168868.gif http://thumbnails20.imagebam.com/5417/e99a9754168917.gif http://thumbnails12.imagebam.com/5417/a9bc2f54168947.gif

nothing in those scan indicate some major skill upgrade. DD still takes this heavy majority.

Not cool, bro. It's been way too soon...



Punisher beating Daken h2h is PIS because Daken has better physical stats, has a healing factor, and his pheromones would disorient Castle.

I have to agree with Deadline that classic Punisher was a beast. He used to give Spiderman a run for his money in unarmed fights and reularly took out whole gangs of thuhgs with just his bare hands. In the early 90's -to make his stories more "realistic"- Frank was shown to get his head kicked in when single handedly taking on gangs of armed thugs (armed with bats and clubs etc..) without weapons of his own. This happened in Punisher's own comics and many writers after this period had this down as their standard version of Punisher. Punisher's recent good showings are not PIS or Punisher being somehow amped. They are consistent with the level he was shown at before the 90's.
DD still takes him, though -but takes a beating himself on the way to victory. It would be like Apollo Creed's points victory against Rocky Balboa in Rocky1. The more skillfil fighter winning, but getting bashed up themselves.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Not cool, bro. It's been way too soon...



Punisher beating Daken h2h is PIS because Daken has better physical stats, has a healing factor, and his pheromones would disorient Castle.
he did not beat Daken in hand two hand. Daken did not even uses his pheramones. actaully the only reason punisher even lasted was due to fighting dirty and biting daken face. Most of the time Punisher used guns. In the end Daken kick his ass. Not sure what I punisher fans think that showing proves. All it proves is Punisher in his final living apearance was able to show some impressive damage soak which allowed him to hand in a fight with daken for a short while.

I agree with that too; the Punisher has always been tough as nails. I don't think anyone is disputing that.

The problem here is that Deadline is referencing inconclusive fights between Castle and others as evidence that he'd beat Daredevil. By doing so, he's hyping up Castle and lowballing anyone who's not Castle, regardless of the circumstances in his "proof".

Originally posted by BUSTER1
I have to agree with Deadline that classic Punisher was a beast. He used to give Spiderman a run for his money in unarmed fights and reularly took out whole gangs of thuhgs with just his bare hands. In the early 90's -to make his stories more "realistic"- Frank was shown to get his head kicked in when single handedly taking on gangs of armed thugs (armed with bats and clubs etc..) without weapons of his own. This happened in Punisher's own comics and many writers after this period had this down as their standard version of Punisher. Punisher's recent good showings are not PIS or Punisher being somehow amped. They are consistent with the level he was shown at before the 90's.
DD still takes him, though -but takes a beating himself on the way to victory. It would be like Apollo Creed's points victory against Rocky Balboa in Rocky1. The more skillfil fighter winning, but getting bashed up themselves. I agree with that too; the Punisher has always been tough as nails. I don't think anyone is disputing that.

The problem here is that Deadline is referencing inconclusive fights between Castle and others as evidence that he'd beat Daredevil. By doing so, he's hyping up Castle and lowballing anyone who's not Castle, regardless of the circumstances in his "proof".Originally posted by Battlehammer
he did not beat Daken in hand two hand. Daken did not even uses his pheramones. actaully the only reason punisher even lasted was due to fighting dirty and biting daken face. Most of the time Punisher used guns. In the end Daken kick his ass. Not sure what I punisher fans think that showing proves. All it proves is Punisher in his final living apearance was able to show some impressive damage soak which allowed him to hand in a fight with daken for a short while.
I know he didn't beat him. I was just adding to the debate between PR and Deadline.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I agree with that too; the Punisher has always been tough as nails. I don't think anyone is disputing that.

The problem here is that Deadline is referencing inconclusive fights between Castle and others as evidence that he'd beat Daredevil. By doing so, he's hyping up Castle and lowballing anyone who's not Castle, regardless of the circumstances in his "proof".

I completely agree.

Thats why I posted the Daken fight. He seem to be implying Punisher was beating on Daken in h2h fight which is far from the cases, all Punisher really did was wistand crazy amount of damage for a human.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
I have to agree with Deadline that classic Punisher was a beast. He used to give Spiderman a run for his money in unarmed fights and reularly took out whole gangs of thuhgs with just his bare hands. In the early 90's -to make his stories more "realistic"- Frank was shown to get his head kicked in when single handedly taking on gangs of armed thugs (armed with bats and clubs etc..) without weapons of his own. This happened in Punisher's own comics and many writers after this period had this down as their standard version of Punisher. Punisher's recent good showings are not PIS or Punisher being somehow amped. They are consistent with the level he was shown at before the 90's.
DD still takes him, though -but takes a beating himself on the way to victory. It would be like Apollo Creed's points victory against Rocky Balboa in Rocky1. The more skillfil fighter winning, but getting bashed up themselves.

At least you actually acknowledge and understand what im saying. However its Mike Baron who really wanted to make Punisher more realistic and other writers followed that example.




Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Not cool, bro. It's been way too soon...



Punisher beating Daken h2h is PIS because Daken has better physical stats, has a healing factor, and his pheromones would disorient Castle.

You're right so was Punishers fight with Deadpool, Kraven The Hunter, Tiger Shark and his showing against Spiderman were all PIS. In fact all his good showings are PIS and it has nothing to do with the writers making Punisher reach his full potential.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

The problem here is that Deadline is referencing inconclusive fights between Castle and others as evidence that he'd beat Daredevil. By doing so, he's hyping up Castle and lowballing anyone who's not Castle, regardless of the circumstances in his "proof".

Oh I see, if you're going to go down that route alot of DD's h2h fights are inconclusive as well.

Originally posted by Deadline
Tiger Shark and his showing against Spiderman were all PIS. In fact all his good showings are PIS and it has nothing to do with the writers making Punisher reach his full potential.
)
Oh sao Punisher true potential now is to over power class 100........

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Oh sao Punisher true potential now is to over power class 100........

100+ don't forget he's beaten Sentry
j/k

Originally posted by Deadline
Its not faulty logic if he keeps having good feats against these opponents. That means hes really that good. Peoples showings don't always remain the same.



The fact remains that within those 4 years hes improved alot. The whole premise of the new PWJ series is that Punisher is fighting superhumans and even Remender himself stated that he was basing Punisher on the classic version of Punisher. The classic version also has some of the best feats ever and could arguably beat DD as well.

Like I said I can give loads of examples.



Which isn't PIS because hes got other feats to back it up.

any normal man with NO enhancements whatsoever has no business holding his own against someone like daken.

no pheromones? or did he somehow resist them?

Originally posted by -Pr-
no pheromones? or did he somehow resist them?

He simply doesn't used them it would be retarded to assume he resisted them if you look on beings that were not able to resist them: Spider-man, Venom, Ares, Skaar (Skaar maybe resisted it, not really clear) and I think the list will grow in the next few months...

Originally posted by -Pr-
any normal man with NO enhancements whatsoever has no business holding his own against someone like daken.

no pheromones? or did he somehow resist them? maybe not, but once a character gets popular enough they'll start doing those things on a consistent basis, batman and wolverine take on characters they shouldn't be able too on a consistent basis, punisher is turning into one of those characters.

anyway i think current punisher would win (frankencastle!) haha

correct it for you

Originally posted by Trackz
maybe not, but once a character gets popular enough they'll start doing those things on a consistent basis, batman and black panther take on characters they shouldn't be able too on a consistent basis, punisher is turning into one of those characters.

anyway i think current punisher would win (frankencastle!) haha




You think Punisher takes the majority in h2h vs the more skilled fighter, with radar sense, who stronger, faster, better reflexes, far more agile........

Originally posted by Battlehammer
correct it for you






You think Punisher takes the majority in h2h vs the more skilled fighter, with radar sense, who stronger, faster, better reflexes, far more agile........ they've already fought and punisher proved he could hang with daredevil, and if you could read (which i'm doubting) you'd see i put frankencastle would win as a joke. read an entire post before attempting a retort.

Originally posted by Trackz
they've already fought and punisher proved he could hang with daredevil, and if you could read (which i'm doubting) you'd see i put frankencastle would win as a joke. read an entire post before attempting a retort.

As far as I know there is no book with him as Frankencastle out so he is, at this point, simply dead

Originally posted by Parmaniac
As far as I know there is no book with him as Frankencastle out so he is, at this point, simply dead i think the first issue is just about to come out, hopefully it doesn't suck haha

Originally posted by -Pr-
even though he has far superior skill, agility and senses?

i mean, what does frank have over him? damage soak? And guts. Guts'll get you far.

i really dont see punisher having more guts then daredevil remember that daredevil is the man without fear who was fighting thor and namor he knew he cant win but he fought to his best the guy got guts

Originally posted by Trackz
they've already fought and punisher proved he could hang with daredevil, and if you could read (which i'm doubting) you'd see i put frankencastle would win as a joke. read an entire post before attempting a retort.
really becuase the majority of the time he gets stomp.....and by fight you mean put up a struggle and loses......so your statement with punisher take the majority disagrees with your conculosion that he win...try again I love watching you make a fool of your self.

if i cant read how do I constantly read and prove your post incorrect?


your joke was lame


as most of your post are........

Originally posted by Deadline
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7494/deadpool02p21.jpg

LOL he wasn't on one knee until after he was punched but prior to that DP stopped to mock him. Obvoulsy you're assuming that Taskmaster was on his knees after DP kicked him in the face.


Oh please. Yes it does in both those examples DP stops to mock his opponent. Its not that hard to comprehend.
Right... because TM was arguing and clearly trying to fight back with everything he's got Just admit he was beaten and lets get this over with. And if you're gonna argue that Deadpool was going all out in his fight with Frank (like he CLEARLY was in his fight with TM) you're gonna need to come up with a better argment than him makingjokes during other fights.

Originally posted by Deadline


No you're the one making it complicated. Lets try this again. DP wanted to beat the crap out of him and its a fine line between wanting to beat the crap out of somebody and wanting to kill them. Using that logic all of Captain Americas fights are exempt..duh. See how that logic goes. Dont even go there you know yourself its not true. Even if one doesnt want to kill his opponent he can still fight with everything he's got OR he can hold back a lot and not take the fight seriously and we both know when they fought it was the second scenario even though you refuse to admit it because it perfectly suits your theory about Frank being able to beat Daredevil "because he stalemated Deadpool".

Originally posted by Deadline
lol let's next complain that comicbook characters can say a lot of lines in a mid-leap. Putting a stunned opponent on his knees, leaning towards him, mocking him and givving him the time to recover instead of beating the crap outta him is NOT the same as recovering from the fall, finding out that your opponent is still alive and starting to punch him in the face. That's a very weak argument man.

Originally posted by Deadline
lol I showed you the one example during his fight with PUNISHER to prove a point. I can give you a dozen examples of Deadpool going all out against opponents even though he's not trying to kill them. His fight with Killmonger, Ironfist twice,Domino, Shatterstar heck there are DOZENS, yet you post a scan of Deadpool making jokes and somehow think that it proves that he was going all out in his fight with Punisher when it's obvious to anyone who's read the fight that he WASN'T going all out. And you keep avoiding two my main questions that would end this debate 1) Do you think Punisher = or > Deadpool and 2) Do you think the outcome of the fight would've been the same if Deadpool instead of mocking Punisher who according to your own statement was stunned just started pounding on him while he was on the ground?


Originally posted by Deadline
Deadpool almost broke Moonstone's hand and she's what? Class 70? 80? 100? Its not just about strength, breaking neck of a guy who's stunned and is not even resisting and from behind would be a walk in a park for a trained killer and it in no way disrespects Frank. It'd take a high level of superhuman durability to stand a chance.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And guts. Guts'll get you far.



or were you serious?

Originally posted by Trackz
maybe not, but once a character gets popular enough they'll start doing those things on a consistent basis, batman and wolverine take on characters they shouldn't be able too on a consistent basis, punisher is turning into one of those characters.

anyway i think current punisher would win (frankencastle!) haha

punisher isn't either of those, though. i mean, it takes a long, long time to change a character so heavily.

Originally posted by -Pr-


or were you serious?



punisher isn't either of those, though. i mean, it takes a long, long time to change a character so heavily. they turned deadpool into what he is in about two or three years. Punisher started back in civil war since then he taken on anti-venom, spiderman, sentry, x-23, deadpool, the hood, the scourge victims, and daken. I'm definitely missing some but he's definitely the next one if i had to take a guess, marvel's throwing him around everywhere so i wouldn't be surprised at all if we see him do things a normal human shouldn't. I mean look at what has happened to him in the passed year with his futuristic/alien weapons cache and now on top of that he's a super-zombie (or will be) marvel is definitely trying to make him a big player in the marvel universe.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
really becuase the majority of the time he gets stomp.....and by fight you mean put up a struggle and loses......so your statement with punisher take the majority disagrees with your conculosion that he win...try again I love watching you make a fool of your self.


if i cant read how do I constantly read and prove your post incorrect?


your joke was lame


as most of your post are........
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/1918/thepunisherv436confedermj5.th.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4844/thepunisherv436confedergp4.th.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3198/thepunisherv436confederrg6.th.jpg

there are other fights, it's clear DD is better, but punisher can hang with him, that was also before all his recent feats as well. Never did i say punisher would take the majority, once again i said frankencastle would as a joke, stop trying to be clever/witty because it's not working.

Originally posted by Trackz
they turned deadpool into what he is in about two or three years. Punisher started back in civil war since then he taken on anti-venom, spiderman, sentry, x-23, deadpool, the hood, the scourge victims, and daken. I'm definitely missing some but he's definitely the next one if i had to take a guess, marvel's throwing him around everywhere so i wouldn't be surprised at all if we see him do things a normal human shouldn't. I mean look at what has happened to him in the passed year with his futuristic/alien weapons cache and now on top of that he's a super-zombie (or will be) marvel is definitely trying to make him a big player in the marvel universe.

deadpool doesnt have the history punisher does, though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
any normal man with NO enhancements whatsoever has no business holding his own against someone like daken.

Hasn't Nightwing held his own against Deathstroke. Does Nightwing have enhancements? Please don't tell me hes not Nightwing...

Originally posted by -Pr-

no pheromones? or did he somehow resist them?

I don't think he did. Even without pheremones Daken is still very dangerous, and Punisher holding his own aginst Daken is still proof he could beat DD for the majority.


Originally posted by -Pr-


punisher isn't either of those, though. i mean, it takes a long, long time to change a character so heavily.

Not if he has the feats to back it up.

Originally posted by Deadline
Hasn't Nightwing held his own against Deathstroke. Does Nightwing have enhancements? Please don't tell me hes not Nightwing...



I don't think he did. Even without pheremones Daken is still very dangerous, and Punisher holding his own aginst Daken is still proof he could beat DD for the majority.




Not if he has the feats to back it up.

daken has pheromones and claws that cut through anything. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT scenario. also, nightwing is far more skilled than punisher.

maybe to you. i see it as PIS.

and what about all the times they've fought each other? those simply get tossed away?

you are trying to use ABC logic while there are proven fights that daredevil is the better fighter and its just funny actually how there are solid facts of daredevil being the better fighter and you ignore it just like that and using invalid things

Originally posted by Trackz
they turned deadpool into what he is in about two or three years. Punisher started back in civil war since then he taken on anti-venom, spiderman, sentry, x-23, deadpool, the hood, the scourge victims, and daken.

to take on someone doesn't mean anything

Anti-Venom isn't even trying to fight against him, Punisher is just permanently trying to kill him and fails constantly

Sentry, do I really have to say something about that encounter?

Daken killed him... (he was weakend I'll give him that, so I would say that encounter doesn't count in anyones favor)

I personally call the Spiderman thing PIS (but we already had this more than once)

Not sure about the others had to re-read it though

Yes he can take on these guys but that doesn't mean he will fare well against them, in a comic yes he can beat them (with prep, circumstances etc.) but here it's another thing...

Originally posted by -Pr-
daken has pheromones and claws that cut through anything.

He doesnt always use his pheremones and as I pointed out to you before he should be able to hold his own against Daken without his pehermones. He has claws that can cut through anything? So wait a second Punisher's fights with Wolverine were he gets cut by him is PIS now?

Originally posted by -Pr-

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT scenario. also, nightwing is far more skilled than punisher.

You completely missed the point Nightwing doesnt have enhancements. Hes more acrobatic than Punisher and is most likely more skilled than him now. I wouldn't give Nightwing the majority over The Punisher prior to becoming Batman.

Originally posted by -Pr-

maybe to you. i see it as PIS.


I see nothing changed has it? You're still giving me the Punisher vs DCU treatment after i've consistenly backed up my argumnents in debates. Fanboyism has nothing to do with it. I already explained that Remender based current Punisher on classic Punisher. You know that classic Punisher humilated Spiderman and Nightcrawler at the sametime? You know he had Captain America dead to rights after Captain America got him by suprise? The problem is your basing him mainly on Garth Einnis and Mike Baron's most likely. Classic Punisher is a completely different animal. I know because i've done the research its got nothing to do with fanboyism. Hell it would be better to argue that his feats simply aren't enough instead of just fobbing me off.

Its pretty obvious its not PIS because they wanted Punisher to fight super-villains instead of mobsters. Its pretty obvious to somebody doing in-depth reasearch that they would have to increase his potential and look at past verisons of Punisher. There an exception though. Theres a Punisher series in 95-96 were Punisher fights mainly superhumans and yet again he has some of the most impressive feats ever. The problem is that only lasted for about 18 issues and he went back to his normal levels fighting mobsters. The fact of the matter Punisher's potential can change drastically depending on whos writing him and the circumstance.


Edit: In fact in the past Punisher has been classified as being better at h2h than Daredevil. Theres a marvel roleplaying source that put Punisher above DD in h2h skills. I actually did some reasearch and the people that made the roleplaying source actually worked on Marvel Universe. So its clearly PIS if you don't know about Punisher's history.

Originally posted by -Pr-

and what about all the times they've fought each other? those simply get tossed away?

This is a shame. As I told you already Punisher has improved alot. The problem is your classifying all his good feats as PIS and thus not allowing any evidence to be used.


Originally posted by Parmaniac
to take on someone doesn't mean anything

Anti-Venom isn't even trying to fight against him, Punisher is just permanently trying to kill him and fails constantly

Sentry, do I really have to say something about that encounter?

Daken killed him... (he was weakend I'll give him that, so I would say that encounter doesn't count in anyones favor)

I personally call the Spiderman thing PIS (but we already had this more than once)

Not sure about the others had to re-read it though

Yes he can take on these guys but that doesn't mean he will fare well against them, in a comic yes he can beat them (with prep, circumstances etc.) but here it's another thing...


facepalm

Originally posted by Deadline
facepalm

Truth hurts I know but you don't have to hide your face, just let it out...
here
http://picnicb.ciao.com/de/167618591.jpg

Yes brilliant argument.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yes brilliant argument.

yeah yours was a million times better...

Originally posted by Parmaniac
yeah yours was a million times better...

Yeah they always are. You're logic is completely faulty. You're classifying feats as PIS because you feel like it and drinking heavy doses of haterade.

Punisher fighting Daken with a broken leg and bleeding wounds = doesn't count for anything

Obvoulsy you're completely biased. I can't be arsed to go through your whole post.

Originally posted by Deadline
Yeah they always are. You're logic is completely faulty. You're classifying feats as PIS because you feel like it and drinking heavy doses of haterade.

Punisher fighting Daken with a broken leg and bleeding wounds = doesn't count for anything

Obvoulsy you're completely biased. I can't be arsed to go through your whole post.

yeah but reading my post would maybe help, I agreed on the Daken fight...

then just prove the Sentry and Anti Venom thing wrong, I'm curios how you're going to explain these 2...

Originally posted by Parmaniac
yeah but reading my post would maybe help, I agreed on the Daken fight...

I did read your post. You said

he was weakend I'll give him that, so I would say that encounter doesn't count in anyones favor)

It does count in Punisher's favour because it was very impressive.

Originally posted by Parmaniac

then just prove the Sentry and Anti Venom thing wrong, I'm curios how you're going to explain these 2...

I haven't read the Anti-Venom thing. Sentry was holding back, and Punisher used smarts to escape, thats not even relevant to the thread. There was practically no h2h in it.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
to take on someone doesn't mean anything

Anti-Venom isn't even trying to fight against him, Punisher is just permanently trying to kill him and fails constantly

Sentry, do I really have to say something about that encounter?

Daken killed him... (he was weakend I'll give him that, so I would say that encounter doesn't count in anyones favor)

I personally call the Spiderman thing PIS (but we already had this more than once)

Not sure about the others had to re-read it though

Yes he can take on these guys but that doesn't mean he will fare well against them, in a comic yes he can beat them (with prep, circumstances etc.) but here it's another thing...
sorry, maybe i wasn't clear. My point wasn't that Punisher is going around beating everyone, this is just the beginning marvel is getting him around similar to deadpool and daken. PUtting him against a lot of characters and building him a fanbase, He's beaten plenty of great opponents and gotten a lot of feats from the battles even though he didn't win all of his fights (deadpool and daken haven't either but I bet in the near future we'll see them become powerhouses, simply because people like to see their favorite characters win.

Originally posted by -Pr-
deadpool doesnt have the history punisher does, though. deadpool's pretty old, isn't he? Plus marvel seems to be marketing a new punisher. after relaunching his series, same with deadpool. Look at all the development and change that's happened in only a couple of years and add in that Punisher really wasn't really all that popular before civil war, punisher is making a resurgence and he'll probably be a major player in the events in the future along with deadpool.

this is all my opinion though.

Originally posted by Trackz
sorry, maybe i wasn't clear. My point wasn't that Punisher is going around beating everyone, this is just the beginning marvel is getting him around similar to deadpool and daken. PUtting him against a lot of characters and building him a fanbase, He's beaten plenty of great opponents and gotten a lot of feats from the battles even though he didn't win all of his fights (deadpool and daken haven't either but I bet in the near future we'll see them become powerhouses, simply because people like to see their favorite characters win.


The thing is it won't be because of his h2h skill it will be because hes superhuman. Remender has stated that hes going to make Punisher more powerful as Frankencastle. Its a shame I think he could be a monster without the upgrade.

Daredevil easily.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
Daredevil easily. no he has to work for it, punisher is probably stronger and has a high pain tolerance, he also is skilled, not as skilled as daredevil but enough to make daredevil work for a win. Punisher bites too.

Originally posted by Trackz
no he has to work for it, punisher is probably stronger and has a high pain tolerance, he also is skilled, not as skilled as daredevil but enough to make daredevil work for a win. Punisher bites too. i doubt punisher is stronger,Daredevil has good pain tolerance,until convinced otherwise i don't see punisher getting a win.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
i doubt punisher is stronger,Daredevil has good pain tolerance,until convinced otherwise i don't see punisher getting a win. i guess the strength is debatable, punisher just tends to use brute force more than daredevil in my opinion, so he comes off as stronger. As far as pain tolerance Punisher had his kidney ripped open while running from sentry i believe and just put it out of his mind, he kept going at daken after he had his throat slashed open and had lost an arm, punisher takes a lot and keeps rolling for a guy with no healing factor.

Originally posted by Trackz
i guess the strength is debatable, punisher just tends to use brute force more than daredevil in my opinion, so he comes off as stronger. As far as pain tolerance Punisher had his kidney ripped open while running from sentry i believe and just put it out of his mind, he kept going at daken after he had his throat slashed open and had lost an arm, punisher takes a lot and keeps rolling for a guy with no healing factor. Daredevil has been completely engulfed in fire.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
Daredevil has been completely engulfed in fire. are you talking about from the list? his suit couldve provided protection, i'm sure it can. do we know how much damage was dealt?

Originally posted by Trackz
are you talking about from the list? his suit couldve provided protection, i'm sure it can. do we know how much damage was dealt? no the instance im talking about he was not wearing his suit.

Any chance for scans or issue number?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Any chance for scans? trying to find the comic.

i don't have scans but it happens in vol 2 #48

How did he heal from that?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
How did he heal from that? Ninja magic.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
Ninja magic. what happened after he was engulfed in flames?

Originally posted by Trackz
what happened after he was engulfed in flames? you would have to see it the art is kinda bad it looks like as he starts moving the fire comes off his body and stays on his head the art for the fire is bad.

Originally posted by -Pr-


or were you serious?

punisher isn't either of those, though. i mean, it takes a long, long time to change a character so heavily. Damn straight I'm serious.

I've been reading Punisher for ages. That was Punisher. Not some "here-let's-send-him-off-with-a-cool-fight" Punisher. That was Punisher. Down and dirty. Originally posted by -Pr-
daken has pheromones and claws that cut through anything. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT scenario. also, nightwing is far more skilled than punisher.

maybe to you. i see it as PIS.

and what about all the times they've fought each other? those simply get tossed away? He didn't use his Muramasa laced claws. His bone claws don't really cut through everything.

Not really.

Punisher's held his own against Daredevil. Where are people getting this impression that DD completely owns him?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Damn straight I'm serious.

I've been reading Punisher for ages. That was Punisher. Not some "here-let's-send-him-off-with-a-cool-fight" Punisher. That was Punisher. Down and dirty. He didn't use his Muramasa laced claws. His bone claws don't really cut through everything.

Not really.

Punisher's held his own against Daredevil. Where are people getting this impression that DD completely owns him? Because daredevil does own him and has before.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
Because daredevil does own him and has before.

He has but not often. Punisher has actually done better than people credit him for. For example:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/thorion/original1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/thorion/original2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/thorion/original3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/thorion/original4.jpg


He didn't actually lose the fight. It was revealed in the letters that he let DD win. He actually manages to hurt DD bad enough that he had to stop fighting breifly and Punisher was injured by DD's pressure point.

Heres Punisher's first fight with DD.

Originally posted by Deadline
Punisher vs Daredevil


Punishers first fight with Daredevil...he wins.

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4964/punddbeat1lu9.th.jpg
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/9633/punddbeat2gl4.th.jpg
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6809/punddbeat3wu8.th.jpg



This scan below is actually part of a fight between DD and Punisher that lasts longer.

Originally posted by Deadline


Frank takes a piece of DD
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2084/shand07cardsonthetable0ri0.th.jpg

Theres also another fight which DD and Punisher had were Punisher stuns DD then runs off.

Then theres this. This is also part of a longer fight. DD was kicking the crap out of Punisher but DD managed to jump Punisher by suprise and dislocate his wrist before the fight.


Originally posted by Deadline
Frank humiliating Daredevil

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/1918/thepunisherv436confedermj5.th.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4844/thepunisherv436confedergp4.th.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3198/thepunisherv436confederrg6.th.jpg

Originally posted by Deadline
Frank humiliating Daredevil

lol, what humiliation? Daredevil was bullrushed out of a window and landed very badly on a rail. Infact it's a very good durability showing for daredevil since his back wasnt broken or anything, so instead of DD Taking 7/10, i think he'd now take about 9 /10 if he can take that trauma and not be wheelchaired.

Funny thing is that according to marvel.com they both weigh 200 Ibs.

Their first fight will always be my favorite.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Originally posted by Deadline
Frank humiliating Daredevil

lol, what humiliation? Daredevil was bullrushed out of a window and landed very badly on a rail. Infact it's a very good durability showing for daredevil since his back wasnt broken or anything, so instead of DD Taking 7/10, i think he'd now take about 9 /10 if he can take that trauma and not be wheelchaired. he did look paralyzed at least from the initial shock

Originally posted by Juk3n
Originally posted by Deadline
Frank humiliating Daredevil

lol, what humiliation? Daredevil was bullrushed out of a window and landed very badly on a rail. Infact it's a very good durability showing for daredevil since his back wasnt broken or anything, so instead of DD Taking 7/10, i think he'd now take about 9 /10 if he can take that trauma and not be wheelchaired.

facepalm

Wow.....great deduction there. With all due respect Jukn thats complete fail. Its early in the morning and im too tired to reply back.

Originally posted by Deadline
facepalm

Wow.....great deduction there. With all due respect Jukn thats complete fail. Its early in the morning and im too tired to reply back.
No it wasent, your posts were. Haft the crap youve said is utterly retarded.

Punisher getting killed by Daken some how means he beat DD that retarded........


Then we have you showing only parts of fights and so forth to try and prove Punisher can take DD the majority in h2h fight dispite the fact he normally gets dominated by DD in h2h.

whats even worses is you think Punisher tackling DD out the window becuase DD was and would thrash him some how mean Punisher beats DD majority in h2h fight......again rediculous

also notice you keep posting scans were Punisher relied on weapons.........and yet this is h2h fight.......again reidculous

wait, Punisher is really dead? daken really chopped him up to pieces?

yes I posted scans of it in this very thread.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes I posted scans of it in this very thread. holy shit...I saw the scans...I didn't know if it was real or not

that was some ****ed up shit

is there a twist I'm missing?

he really dead. there bring him back as frankistien or some shit.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
he really dead. there bring him back as frankistien or some shit. damn...thats messed up, the way they offed him


he deserves better. i'd rather bullseye kill him than daken.

Originally posted by Starscream M
damn...thats messed up, the way they offed him


he deserves better. i'd rather bullseye kill him than daken.


would not work, they needed his limbs taken off so forth, not something bulleye does really.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
would not work, they needed his limbs taken off so forth, not something bulleye does really. why did they need his limbs taken off?

bullseye could kill him with a gunshot to the head

Originally posted by Starscream M
why did they need his limbs taken off?

bullseye could kill him with a gunshot to the head
because the whole point is he coming back as frankinstien.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
because the whole point is he coming back as frankinstien. ah ok. thats pretty ridiculous.

yea it a dumb idea.

Starscream - no, he didn't deserve any better. Castle killed his resurrected family in Punisher #10. He forced Firebrand to torch them. They died slowly and painfully.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Starscream - no, he didn't deserve any better. Castle killed his resurrected family in Punisher #10. He forced Firebrand to torch them. They died slowly and painfully.

I suspect theres more to it than that.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Originally posted by Deadline
Frank humiliating Daredevil

lol, what humiliation? Daredevil was bullrushed out of a window and landed very badly on a rail. Infact it's a very good durability showing for daredevil since his back wasnt broken or anything, so instead of DD Taking 7/10, i think he'd now take about 9 /10 if he can take that trauma and not be wheelchaired.

LOL you can't see that hes messed up and not able to get up and fight? Its not that impressive other top tier street levelers would probably have the same result. Punisher has fallen from much greater heights than that.

Originally posted by Deadline
I suspect theres more to it than that.

Yeah... Castle was too scared of the possibility of his family seeing what he had become. So scared that he f****** killed them.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Starscream - no, he didn't deserve any better. Castle killed his resurrected family in Punisher #10. He forced Firebrand to torch them. They died slowly and painfully. at this point, I have no clue what the hell is going on with Punisher...man, it's like he went to the twilight zone

maybe its all just some nightmare...

Does anyone knows what's the reason behind this (maybe an upgrade he will keep after that?)? I mean turning him into a monster... that sucks the DR Punisher run was pretty good IMO

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah... Castle was too scared of the possibility of his family seeing what he had become. So scared that he f****** killed them.

Didn't Punisher specifically state that they weren't his family? Didn't Punisher say the samething about The Avengers? Remender also stated that the Deadly Dozen came back messed up because they were ressuerected with dark magic.

Considering that they were ressurected by an innocent person dying theres a good possibility they would have come back evil. I suspect Punisher knew this.

http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.8896.Tuesday_Q&A~colon~_Rick_Remender

The Human Fly to me is an A-List villain. He pukes up acid, his wings are razor sharp, he's super fast, and although he has always been schizophrenic and crazy, thanks to the black magic that brought him back to life, he's out of his mind and turning cannibalistic.

Death Adder and Basilisk, two of the most vicious and badass characters out there in my opinion, these guys aren't changed at all because they've always been psychopathic and kind of nasty.


http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.9228.Punisher~colon~_Drawing_to_a_Dead_End

The Hood was using the powers of Dormammu to cast a spell that incorporated the blood of Dracula held in the original casket of Mephisto, aka bad evil business," he explains. "The resurrected villains have all shown varying degrees of instability but all of them have shown new, more focused, malevolent traits. Maybe their souls were in a bad place; maybe some of that place came back with them. In the case of the Fly and the Hijacker, a lot came back."

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Does anyone knows what's the reason behind this (maybe an upgrade he will keep after that?)? I mean turning him into a monster... that sucks the DR Punisher run was pretty good IMO

I think they just wanted a change.