Superman takes on each herald

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Mr Master
Superman yall, battles every Galactus herals that ever was,
yall know who they are.

How does he fare against each one,
both fighters at optimal condition everytime,
both warriors bloodlust.

Superman not holding back vs them,
one by one,
fully rested.

Superman has 2 sundips to use,
he can't use it on more than two opponents,
so ... choose wisely.

Well ... how does he do?

Konton
He can't beat Stardust.

Wild Shadow
he uses two sun dips on star dust alone.. stick out tongue

Starscream M
Originally posted by Mr Master
Superman yall, battles every Galactus herals that ever was,
yall know who they are.

How does he fare against each one,
both fighters at optimal condition everytime,
both warriors bloodlust.

Superman not holding back vs them,
one by one,
fully rested.

Superman has 2 sundips to use,
he can't use it on more than two opponents,
so ... choose wisely.

Well ... how does he do? EVERY herald? that's a bit spite

kgkg
^ One by One.

Anyway with Sundip - excluding Tyrant (who wasn't a herald anyway) and Destroyer. He can beat everyone else.

especially considering he gets two sun dips

Slaanesh
he's not beating Surfer

Kris Blaze
I don't see how sundipping would help him against Stardust. He won't be able to do any proper, lasting damage.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I don't see how sundipping would help him against Stardust. He won't be able to do any proper, lasting damage. he could trap stardust in a magnetic field

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Starscream M
he could trap stardust in a magnetic field
Show me this.

Also, explain why a magnetic field would have any sort of effect on Stardust. Something like that should easily be overcome by a herald.

xJLxKing
2x sun dips and he will beat even destroyer

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by xJLxKing
2x sun dips and he will beat even destroyer
Even beat the Destroyer? It can't be beat.

Superman can use his super fast punches as much as he wants. Or the really strong heat vision. Or even his ice breath together with super strength kicks. But there's nothing they will do against Stardust and Destroyer. Stardust might get knocked back or destroyed once or twice, but he can reform just the same.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Show me this.

Also, explain why a magnetic field would have any sort of effect on Stardust. Something like that should easily be overcome by a herald. stardust is an energy being...so he should be vulnerable to energy attacks

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2345/realityfixng9.jpg

superman effortlessly creates a electromagnetic field strong enough to seal a reality, it should be able to contain stardust.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Even beat the Destroyer? It can't be beat.
thor beat it.

Konton
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Show me this.

Also, explain why a magnetic field would have any sort of effect on Stardust. Something like that should easily be overcome by a herald.

Well, he might be able to disperse Stardust for a few minutes with a magnetic field, but that's it. Storm was able to disperse Stardust by jolting her and doing something crazy with electrons. But it supposedly only lasted for a few seconds before she reformed.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Starscream M
stardust is an energy being...so he should be vulnerable to energy attacks

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2345/realityfixng9.jpg

superman effortlessly creates a electromagnetic field strong enough to seal a reality, it should be able to contain stardust.
It doesn't seal away a reality any more than it would do any good against Stardust. Even if this field would somehow be able to keep out someone with the power cosmic, it would just separate them. It makes Superman the loser just as much no expression

Starscream M
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It doesn't seal away a reality any more than it would do any good against Stardust. Even if this field would somehow be able to keep out someone with the power cosmic, it would just separate them. It makes Superman the loser just as much no expression superman could potentially trap stardust inside such a field and would win by imobilizing the opponent

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Starscream M
superman could potentially trap stardust inside such a field and would win by imobilizing the opponent

No, no and no.

It would not immobilize Stardust. It would not work. It would not earn him the victory.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
No, no and no.

It would not immobilize Stardust. It would not work. It would not earn him the victory. good debating technique. why is it you're so sure it won't work?

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Starscream M
good debating technique. why is it you're so sure it won't work?

Because it's a magnetic field and Stardust wields the power cosmic. He might as well build a wall of bricks around him. The writer does not understand what he was writing for that matter, no magnetic field could sustain a breach in reality. There is no super-hot static electricity, it's bullshit.

And who the hell are you to decide debating technique? You're a retard who uses scans without actually knowing what takes place in them.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You're a retard who uses scans without actually knowing what takes place in them. that's uncalled for, kris erm

thanos-prime
Stardust beats him
Silver surfer beats him
morg if he has WOL beats him
the destroyer beats him
tyrant beats him
The others die.

Batman-Prime
Superman can punch energy, Stardust won't die but he will have to reform, but that's a t.k.o. Superboy-Prime could alter reality by punching big grin. Anyway, with two Sundips he will clear it, without too, he's Superman after all.....

Slaanesh
Prime is way more powerful than Supes..Supes can't do what Prime can..

xJLxKing
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Superman can punch energy, Stardust won't die but he will have to reform, but that's a t.k.o. Superboy-Prime could alter reality by punching big grin. Anyway, with two Sundips he will clear it, without too, he's Superman after all.....
Superman can also absorb energy to give himself energy laughing out loud

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by Slaanesh
Prime is way more powerful than Supes..Supes can't do what Prime can..

With a Sundip he can. And to be honest. Superboy-Prime is the light verision of what Superman would become if he wuz in the same state of mind, IMO.

Slaanesh
no..he can never be like Prime no matter what state of mind he's in..Prime >>>> Supes..that's a fact..

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by Slaanesh
no..he can never be like Prime no matter what state of mind he's in..Prime >>>> Supes..that's a fact..

If you say so big grin.

xJLxKing
Originally posted by Slaanesh
no..he can never be like Prime no matter what state of mind he's in..Prime >>>> Supes..that's a fact..
Did you even read OWAW?

Slaanesh
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Did you even read OWAW?

he was talking about normal Supes..not Sundip..normal Supes can never be equal to Prime no matter what state of mind he's in uhuh

xJLxKing
Originally posted by Slaanesh
he was talking about normal Supes..not Sundip..normal Supes can never be equal to Prime no matter what state of mind he's in uhuh
I agree

dmills
This thread may as well be locked right now. We all know that this isn't going to go well.

Bouboumaster
Surfer wtf kills him in a spite.

Stardust beats Sups.

Firelord gives him hell but die.

Morg: With WOL, he stomps Sups, without, he gives him a match but loose at the end.

Destroyer cuberstomps Sups.

Air-Walker, Terrax and probably Fallen One loose.
Tyrant isn't a herald, but if it was, he murders SUps and a bunch of his allies too, in the process.

-Pr-
as of the OP, he beats all but Surfer (cheap as hell) and Stardust (obviously).

also, lulz @ him not being on prime's level.

Slaanesh
u got a problem with that uhuh

-Pr-
Originally posted by Slaanesh
u got a problem with that uhuh

yes, considering the people that have fought prime, and considering superman's high end feats.

Slaanesh
Originally posted by -Pr-
yes, considering the people that have fought prime, and considering superman's high end feats.

u wanna use Supes high end feat against a guy who appear in what..20 comic issues??well..Supes should have stomp HP Doomsday then..cuz DD feat are nothing compare to Supes high end feat..

-Pr-
Originally posted by Slaanesh
u wanna use Supes high end feat against a guy who appear in what..20 comic issues??well..Supes should have stomp HP Doomsday then..cuz DD feat are nothing compare to Supes high end feat..

hp/dd was 15 years ago. superman has come a long way in 15 years.

prime is a superman from another earth, that's it. he's an emotionally immature superman with no sense of restraint or ethical code.

there's very little evidence, if any, that superman couldn't replicate most of prime's feats if he really wanted to.

Slaanesh
ok..i guess we have to agree to disagree then..

-Pr-
Originally posted by Slaanesh
ok..i guess we have to agree to disagree then..

when it comes to prime and superman, you wouldn't be the first person to say that to me... stick out tongue

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by -Pr-
as of the OP, he beats all but Surfer (cheap as hell) and Stardust (obviously).

also, lulz @ him not being on prime's level.

I was thinking that with a sundip he should be able blitz Surfer and beat him down quickly. Not blitz as in Surfer's like "WTF just happened?!" But fast enough to put him on the defensive side while taking the punches.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
I was thinking that with a sundip he should be able blitz Surfer and beat him down quickly. Not blitz as in Surfer's like "WTF just happened?!" But fast enough to put him on the defensive side while taking the punches.

honestly, without weakness exploitation, i don't see surfer beating superman. quite the opposite in fact.

Starscream M
Originally posted by -Pr-
honestly, without weakness exploitation, i don't see surfer beating superman. quite the opposite in fact. surfer seems to have gotten quite a bit of a powerup in the recent encounter against BRB where he almost seemed to be toying with the asgardian.

Mindship
When the Destroyer was herald, it seemed Ben Grimm could hit it - and take hits from it - pretty good, so I don't think it was up to its classic, Thor-owning levels. In this instance, Superman - especially sundipped - likely could take it w/o much difficulty.

But against classic, "all-powerful" Destroyer as when Thor first fought it? Capable of generating any force in the universe and firing off bolts of limitless power? I don't see Supes winning. At best: stalemate by Superman avoiding its attacks with superspeed, or BFR. HV/arctic breath won't stop it, and going toe-to-toe would probably also be a stalemate until Supes' extra solar charge began to wane.

Sundipped Supes against Surfer? While the former is dipping, the latter better be amping, or methinks Soarin' Norrin loses.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by -Pr-
honestly, without weakness exploitation, i don't see surfer beating superman. quite the opposite in fact.

I tend to agree. I will say that without weakness exploitation, Surfer isn't stomping him.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Mindship
When the Destroyer was herald, it seemed Ben Grimm could hit it - and take hits from it - pretty good, so I don't think it was up to its classic, Thor-owning levels. In this instance, Superman - especially sundipped - likely could take it w/o much difficulty.

But against classic, "all-powerful" Destroyer as when Thor first fought it? Capable of generating any force in the universe and firing off bolts of limitless power? I don't see Supes winning. At best: stalemate by Superman avoiding its attacks with superspeed, or BFR. HV/arctic breath won't stop it, and going toe-to-toe would probably also be a stalemate until Supes' extra solar charge began to wane.

Sundipped Supes against Surfer? While the former is dipping, the latter better be amping, or methinks Soarin' Norrin loses.

I think he gets the dip before the battle starts. Even if it wasn't I believe that the amp from dipping powers him up faster than Surfer can amp himself.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Starscream M
surfer seems to have gotten quite a bit of a powerup in the recent encounter against BRB where he almost seemed to be toying with the asgardian.

good for him, but it's not like superman hasn't toyed with people who are supposed to be his equals.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
I tend to agree. I will say that without weakness exploitation, Surfer isn't stomping him.

aye. he's tanked worse than surfer's standard blasts.

Mindship
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
I believe that the amp from dipping powers him up faster than Surfer can amp himself. Depends on whose comic the battle would take place in. wink

-Pr-
Originally posted by Mindship
Depends on whose comic the battle would take place in. wink

i dunno. Superman amps incredibly quickly.

Spire
Hmm....

If Surfer needed to amp to match Thing in H2H...

shifty

Mindship
In OWAW, while it's tough to get even a ballpark figure on how long it took Superman to sundip long enough to move Warworld, I think it's safe to say it took several minutes (ie, while Superman is musing through quite a few panels about his doubts burning away; Brainiac is monologuing panel after panel), if not "Hours" (hard to assign who's saying this, but it could be Steel as he wonders where Superman is "when the universe needs you most"wink.

Surfer seems to amp in minutes, if not seconds. But again, who amps faster I think is a highly subjective call.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Mindship
In OWAW, while it's tough to get even a ballpark figure on how long it took Superman to sundip long enough to move Warworld, I think it's safe to say it took several minutes (ie, while Superman is musing through quite a few panels about his doubts burning away; Brainiac is monologuing panel after panel), if not "Hours" (hard to assign who's saying this, but it could be Steel as he wonders where Superman is "when the universe needs you most"wink.

Surfer seems to amp in minutes, if not seconds. But again, who amps faster I think is a highly subjective call.

he doesn't need to sundip to amp, though.

Kris Blaze
Sundip helps him beat those who would normally be too close to call, namely Surfer and possibly Fallen One. The rest either lose at 3-4/10 ish and Destroyer/Tyrant would stomp regardless of what he does. The Destroyer's physical power isn't that impressive, it's probably not much more than Superman. It's the beams, the invulnerability and matter manipulation. And this time, he's got the power cosmic backing him. Thor with the power cosmic did not use Mjolnir if I recall correctly, which would put him around the level of an ordinary herald. Only with some extra strength and magic power.

List goes as follows. (No Sundip)

Red shift 4/10
Firelord 4/10
Air Walker 1/10
Nova 2/10
Morg 5/10
Surfer 6/10
Fallen one 4/10
Destroyer 10/10
Tyrant 10/10
A punisher robot 0/10
Thor 5/10
Aunt May 0/10
Terrax 3/10

With a sundip you could change all his bouts against the herald into clean victories, except Tyrant and Destroyer. Those battles would still have the same outcome.

Mindship
I think against Surfer he'd have to.

Naija boy
Originally posted by -Pr-
honestly, without weakness exploitation, i don't see surfer beating superman. quite the opposite in fact.

Bah!. Surfer has tanked much worse than supermans standard punches +has forcefields, can drain his energy, etc



Dont go over to the dark side. stick out tongue Let logic guide you back into the light. (which is Surfer beating superman weakness or no weakness)

-Pr-
Originally posted by Mindship
I think against Surfer he'd have to.

i don't, but that's me...

Originally posted by Naija boy
Bah!. Surfer has tanked much worse than supermans standard punches +has forcefields, can drain his energy, etc



Dont go over to the dark side. stick out tongue Let logic guide you back into the light. (which is Surfer beating superman weakness or no weakness)

laughing out loud

nicamarvin
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You're a retard who uses scans without actually knowing what takes place in them.

Originally posted by Starscream M
that's uncalled for, kris erm


..... laughing

xJLxKing
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Sundip helps him beat those who would normally be too close to call, namely Surfer and possibly Fallen One. The rest either lose at 3-4/10 ish and Destroyer/Tyrant would stomp regardless of what he does. The Destroyer's physical power isn't that impressive, it's probably not much more than Superman. It's the beams, the invulnerability and matter manipulation. And this time, he's got the power cosmic backing him. Thor with the power cosmic did not use Mjolnir if I recall correctly, which would put him around the level of an ordinary herald. Only with some extra strength and magic power.

List goes as follows. (No Sundip)

Red shift 4/10
Firelord 4/10
Air Walker 1/10
Nova 2/10
Morg 5/10
Surfer 6/10
Fallen one 4/10
Destroyer 10/10
Tyrant 10/10
A punisher robot 0/10
Thor 5/10
Aunt May 0/10
Terrax 3/10

With a sundip you could change all his bouts against the herald into clean victories, except Tyrant and Destroyer. Those battles would still have the same outcome.
I'll agree with this, but I got one question about Destroyer.

Didn't Thor with a small amp beat him? Granted someone was using it, but it should count.

Juntai
Originally posted by -Pr-
honestly, without weakness exploitation, i don't see surfer beating superman. quite the opposite in fact. thumb up

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
honestly, without weakness exploitation, i don't see surfer beating superman. quite the opposite in fact.
Nah even without exploiting Supes's weaknesses Surfer still has the stuff to take him. Supes might have an edge in strength but that's pretty much it, Surfer still has the superior ranged game and versatility(force fields, transmutation, etc.) going for him. The only shot Supes really has is getting up close and personal, and there's no reason for Surfer to let him do that in a forum fight. And since the two have comparable durability(even without Norrin using his force fields), it would take Supes a minute to KO him even if he somehow DID get close enough and started swinging for the fences just as it would take someone like Bizarro(or someone else who's strength is comparible to Clark's) a minute to KO Supes himself.

kgkg
Originally posted by xJLxKing
I'll agree with this, but I got one question about Destroyer.

Didn't Thor with a small amp beat him? Granted someone was using it, but it should count. Nope outside of plot devices no one has beat the Destroyer head on. Other than Celestials of course.

T-Vo or something similar could have been done if this was comic.

But in a forum style battle Destroyer will always own top tiers.

kgkg
Originally posted by Mindship
When the Destroyer was herald, it seemed Ben Grimm could hit it - and take hits from it - pretty good, so I don't think it was up to its classic, Thor-owning levels. In this instance, Superman - especially sundipped - likely could take it w/o much difficulty. You might have missed it but the destroyer was not animated when Ben Grimm beat on him.

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
Nah even without exploiting Supes's weaknesses Surfer still has the stuff to take him. Supes might have an edge in strength but that's pretty much it, Surfer still has the superior ranged game and versatility(force fields, transmutation, etc.) going for him. The only shot Supes really has is getting up close and personal, and there's no reason for Surfer to let him do that in a forum fight. And since the two have comparable durability(even without Norrin using his force fields), it would take Supes a minute to KO him even if he somehow DID get close enough and started swinging for the fences just as it would take someone like Bizarro(or someone else who's strength is comparible to Clark's) a minute to KO Supes himself.

then we disagree.

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
then we disagree.
On which part? Cause if you agree that the points in my reasoning are right I don't really see how you can disagree about the outcome confused . Of course if you disagree about one/all the points I made it's understandable that you might see things differently, but in that case I'd be interested to hear which one(s).

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
On which part? Cause if you agree that the points in my reasoning are right I don't really see how you can disagree about the outcome confused . Of course if you disagree about one/all the points I made it's understandable that you might see things differently, but in that case I'd be interested to hear which one(s).

i don't agree that superman's only advantage is strength. i don't agree that superman doesn't have ranged capabilities sufficient to hurt surfer. i don't agree that norrin has durability on his level. i don't agree that transmutation will work, given that superman has resisted it before.

so i don't agree. stick out tongue

xJLxKing
Originally posted by kgkg
Nope outside of plot devices no one has beat the Destroyer head on. Other than Celestials of course.

T-Vo or something similar could have been done if this was comic.

But in a forum style battle Destroyer will always own top tiers.
There was a typo.

I meant to say, didn't Thor just beat Destroyer in last issue or so? He fought him, and I believe Loki was controlling it.

Naija boy
Originally posted by darthgoober
Nah even without exploiting Supes's weaknesses Surfer still has the stuff to take him. Supes might have an edge in strength but that's pretty much it, Surfer still has the superior ranged game and versatility(force fields, transmutation, etc.) going for him. The only shot Supes really has is getting up close and personal, and there's no reason for Surfer to let him do that in a forum fight. And since the two have comparable durability(even without Norrin using his force fields), it would take Supes a minute to KO him even if he somehow DID get close enough and started swinging for the fences just as it would take someone like Bizarro(or someone else who's strength is comparible to Clark's) a minute to KO Supes himself.

thumb up



The hold of the darkside is strong on this one. stick out tongue

kgkg
Originally posted by xJLxKing
There was a typo.

I meant to say, didn't Thor just beat Destroyer in last issue or so? He fought him, and I believe Loki was controlling it. It was Balder. Thor had the Odin force and he only won because he was able to summon all the spirit back<another plot device). Destroyer almost killed him in that fight.

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
i don't agree that superman's only advantage is strength.
What other advantages does he have?

Originally posted by -Pr-
i don't agree that superman doesn't have ranged capabilities sufficient to hurt surfer.
I didn't say that he couldn't hurt Surfer, I said that Surfer has the superior ranged game. So at a distance Surfer has the advantage. And given that Supes's ranged attacks are heatvision and cold breath(which wouldn't be anywhere near as effective against Surfer as they are against most of his rogues gallery), I'd say the advantage is pretty large.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i don't agree that norrin has durability on his level.
How if the two have comparable feats of durability? Can you think of a durability feat that Surfer can't compete with?

Originally posted by -Pr-
i don't agree that transmutation will work, given that superman has resisted it before.
I wasn't necessarily talking about direct offensive transmutation, indirect transmutation can be just as effective. And even if I were talking about direct offensive transmutation, just because Supes can fight through it doesn't mean that it still wouldn't be draining or throw Supes for a loop at least momentarily and allow Surfer to put distance between the two.

Originally posted by -Pr-
so i don't agree. stick out tongue
I really don't understand why.

Juntai
Originally posted by darthgoober
What other advantages does he have? But if we look on paper alone, someone like Bombshell has nearly all the same powers he does and she's not even near the same bracket.


I didn't say that he couldn't hurt Surfer, I said that Surfer has the superior ranged game. So at a distance Surfer has the advantage. And given that Supes's ranged attacks are heatvision and cold breath(which wouldn't be anywhere near as effective against Surfer as they are against most of his rogues gallery), I'd say the advantage is pretty large.


How if the two have comparable feats of durability? Can you think of a durability feat that Surfer can't compete with?


I wasn't necessarily talking about direct offensive transmutation, indirect transmutation can be just as effective. And even if I were talking about direct offensive transmutation, just because Supes can fight through it doesn't mean that it still wouldn't be draining or throw Supes for a loop at least momentarily and allow Surfer to put distance between the two.


I really don't understand why. On paper Surfer has the tools to compete with pretty much any character.

But while you're talking about Surfer's advantages-
You're ignoring several of Superman's if you think strength is his only advantage. He's a better strategist. Although he's at a disadvantage in powerS, he's a more powerful more accomplished combatant by far imo. He's plain better in combat situations mentally and physically.

You'd have to strip away Surfer's character as he's most often portrayed in big fights against big time characters to come up with a favorable scenario where he's he going to run and hide and pelt with blasts and things, especially when Superman can hang with his space-travel feats, and far outstrips him in the combat scenario ones.

Without exploiting weaknesses, the most common scenario will involve Superman and Surfer getting close, and Surfer getting pummeled unconscious.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Naija boy
thumb up



The hold of the darkside is strong on this one. stick out tongue

quiet you.

Originally posted by darthgoober
What other advantages does he have?

strength, durability/stamina, and skill.



that's another thing we disagree on.



just from combat in general.



so surfer's going to spend the entire fight running away?



then i don't know what i can do to convince you lol...

Originally posted by Juntai
On paper Surfer has the tools to compete with pretty much any character.

But while you're talking about Surfer's advantages-
You're ignoring several of Superman's if you think strength is his only advantage. He's a better strategist. Although he's at a disadvantage in powerS, he's a more powerful more accomplished combatant by far imo. He's plain better in combat situations mentally and physically.

You'd have to strip away Surfer's character as he's most often portrayed in big fights against big time characters to come up with a favorable scenario where he's he going to run and hide and pelt with blasts and things, especially when Superman can hang with his space-travel feats, and far outstrips him in the combat scenario ones.

Without exploiting weaknesses, the most common scenario will involve Superman and Surfer getting close, and Surfer getting pummeled unconscious.

thumb up


and i was afraid of this turning in to a supes v surfer thread...

darthgoober
Originally posted by Juntai
On paper Surfer has the tools to compete with pretty much any character.

But while you're talking about Surfer's advantages-
You're ignoring several of Superman's if you think strength is his only advantage. He's a better strategist. Although he's at a disadvantage in powerS, he's a more powerful more accomplished combatant by far imo. He's plain better in combat situations mentally and physically.
A better strategist? Based on what? And what makes you think he's more powerful?

Originally posted by Juntai
You'd have to strip away Surfer's character as he's most often portrayed in big fights against big time characters to come up with a favorable scenario where he's he going to run and hide and pelt with blasts and things, especially when Superman can hang with his space-travel feats, and far outstrips him in the combat scenario ones.
Not really, he's had instances of keeping his distance before. Like the first time he fought Thor and he kept his distance an hammered Thor with repeated blast. Thor never even got in a melee shot, his only hit was with a hammer throw. And Supes's combat speed feats are more numerous than Surfer's but Norrin's still put him on Supes's level.

Originally posted by Juntai
Without exploiting weaknesses, the most common scenario will involve Superman and Surfer getting close, and Surfer getting pummeled unconscious.
Only in a comic. On the forum Surfer would keep his distance and fight smart.

Naija boy
Surfer keeping his distance and using blasts instead of going h2h does not at all equate to "running away". Thats a completely innacurate description. Also to say superman is "Far more powerful" is ridiculous

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
strength, durability/stamina, and skill.
I wasn't really thinking about skill but you're probably right there. Durability I disagree on. The two have comparable feats pretty much across the board and if either of them actually have an edge it's probably Surfer.



Originally posted by -Pr-
that's another thing we disagree on.
Feat comparison?



Originally posted by -Pr-
just from combat in general.
Well like what? What has Supes taken that Sufer can't match?


Originally posted by -Pr-
so surfer's going to spend the entire fight running away?
No, but he'd keep his distance.



Originally posted by -Pr-
then i don't know what i can do to convince you lol...

Be less vague stick out tongue .

Zeuodin
Originally posted by -Pr-
i don't agree that superman's only advantage is strength. i don't agree that superman doesn't have ranged capabilities sufficient to hurt surfer. i don't agree that norrin has durability on his level. i don't agree that transmutation will work, given that superman has resisted it before.

so i don't agree. stick out tongue
I agree with your don't agree. smile

UniOmni
Two different wavelengths are debating here.

DC = Superman is top dom. Nothing wrong with that belief, since the comics support that notion. Superman is on a team that has included beings that can create quasars, "heavens ladder", fast forward time for entire celestial bodies, contain big bangs, hold planets, etc and yet, he's still considered the most powerful being on earth.
With hv, icebreath, superspeed and punches in bunches. I don't get the logic(hint-there is none to be found:&ltwink but thats DC editorials line and they maintain it.

Surfer is from the universe where he's seen as a christlike figure, can do anything and is more often than not, the most powerful guy around in the hero league. He can evolve planets, create blackholes, transfer enormous amounts of energy, fly through stars, cross galaxies in seconds(years ago) and transmute on the fly, affect souls, whatever basically....

To me, there is no comparison in power. None whatsoever.
Formidability, Superman easily wins there.

I see Superman beating every herald except for Stardust and Surfer. All else fall.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Zeuodin
I agree with your don't agree. smile
Well if you or pr are interested...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12331672#post12331672

Spire
Originally posted by UniOmni
DC = Superman is top dom. Nothing wrong with that belief, since the comics support that notion. Superman is on a team that has included beings that can create quasars, "heavens ladder", fast forward time for entire celestial bodies, contain big bangs, hold planets, etc and yet, he's still considered the most powerful being on earth.
With hv, icebreath, superspeed and punches in bunches. I don't get the logic(hint-there is none to be found:< ) but thats DC editorials line and they maintain it.


Lawl @ missing THE WHOLE DAMN POINT COMPLETELY.

Juntai
Originally posted by UniOmni
Two different wavelengths are debating here.

DC = Superman is top dom. Nothing wrong with that belief, since the comics support that notion. Superman is on a team that has included beings that can create quasars, "heavens ladder", fast forward time for entire celestial bodies, contain big bangs, hold planets, etc and yet, he's still considered the most powerful being on earth.
With hv, icebreath, superspeed and punches in bunches. I don't get the logic(hint-there is none to be found:&ltwink but thats DC editorials line and they maintain it.

Surfer is from the universe where he's seen as a christlike figure, can do anything and is more often than not, the most powerful guy around in the hero league. He can evolve planets, create blackholes, transfer enormous amounts of energy, fly through stars, cross galaxies in seconds(years ago) and transmute on the fly, affect souls, whatever basically....

To me, there is no comparison in power. None whatsoever.
Formidability, Superman easily wins there.

I see Superman beating every herald except for Stardust and Surfer. All else fall. Yep. Except for his two difficult battles, he gets to amp in the sun.

Juntai
Originally posted by darthgoober
A better strategist? Based on what? And what makes you think he's more powerful?


Not really, he's had instances of keeping his distance before. Like the first time he fought Thor and he kept his distance an hammered Thor with repeated blast. Thor never even got in a melee shot, his only hit was with a hammer throw. And Supes's combat speed feats are more numerous than Surfer's but Norrin's still put him on Supes's level.


Only in a comic. On the forum Surfer would keep his distance and fight smart. Saying "On the forum" is merely your way of trying to put the character into the favorable light you want us to picture him battling under, rather than one he'd be typically seen battling under. They still fight in character on the forum.

How long ago was that first Thor fight, and how many times has he ended up in close quarters against big time players since then? Almost all of them? Also, Thor is no Superman.

If you don't see Superman as the better on the fly battle strategist try reading some more Superman. smile

darthgoober
Originally posted by Juntai
Saying "On the forum" is merely your way of trying to put the character into the favorable light you want us to picture him battling under, rather than one he'd be typically seen battling under. They still fight in character on the forum.

How long ago was that first Thor fight, and how many times has he ended up in close quarters against big time players since then? Almost all of them? Also, Thor is no Superman.

If you don't see Superman as the better on the fly battle strategist try reading some more Superman. smile
Yes but there's a difference between "In character with PIS" and "In character without PIS". If fights were a carbon copy of the comics, there wouldn't be the rule. So yeah there's a difference.

That was just the first that came to mind, do you really think that there haven't been other instances of Surfer keeping his distance for most/all the fight? Supes has plenty of instances of getting tagged for being dumb too, but his fans still say that the Hulk can't touch him.

They both use creative methods to take down their foes and they're both good at doing it, unless Supes has a particularly impressive strategy in his history it doesn't really seem right to say that he's better than Surfer.

xJLxKing
Originally posted by kgkg
It was Balder. Thor had the Odin force and he only won because he was able to summon all the spirit back<another plot device). Destroyer almost killed him in that fight.
Maybe I am imaging stuff, but I though he broke the helmet

darthgoober
Damn bottom of the page...
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but there's a difference between "In character with PIS" and "In character without PIS". If fights were a carbon copy of the comics, there wouldn't be the rule. So yeah there's a difference.

That was just the first that came to mind, do you really think that there haven't been other instances of Surfer keeping his distance for most/all the fight? Supes has plenty of instances of getting tagged for being dumb too, but his fans still say that the Hulk can't touch him.

They both use creative methods to take down their foes and they're both good at doing it, unless Supes has a particularly impressive strategy in his history it doesn't really seem right to say that he's better than Surfer.

kgkg
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Maybe I am imaging stuff, but I though he broke the helmet You might be remembering the King Thor vs Desak/Destoryer fusion fight, or a What if Thor.

Mindship
Originally posted by kgkg
You might have missed it but the destroyer was not animated when Ben Grimm beat on him. Wasn't it animated with some PC? In any event, if this is the level of Destroyer being considered for this thread (when it was herald), I don't see it being a challenge even for undipped Superman.

kgkg
Originally posted by Mindship
I believe it was animated by some of Galactus' life force? In any event, if this is the level of Destroyer being considered for this thread (when it was herald), I don't see it being a challenge even for undipped Superman. It was a small fraction of Galactus Power cosmic. What i'm saying is that when Grimm was beating on it Galactus took that power away making Grimm beat a soulless destroyer.

Originally posted by kgkg

---------------------------------------------
Destroyer<Herald of Galactus> vs Thing/H.E
---------------------------------------------
Destroyer becoming the herald of Galactus here H.E is unable the stop the Destroyer. This is another thing that gets confused on KMC board and some have claimed that the Thing actually defeated the Destroyer which is far from the truth as the scans here reveal that the destroyer only received miniscule life force from Galactus and that Galactus actually withdrew the Life Force from it making it seem like Thing defeated Destroyer.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1021/66064263.th.jpghttp://img18.imageshack.us/img18/364/51085198.th.jpghttp://img376.imageshack.us/img376/9606/57619840.th.jpghttp://img82.imageshack.us/img82/9319/17254464.th.jpghttp://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9194/20420935.th.jpg

UniOmni
Originally posted by Spire
Lawl @ missing THE WHOLE DAMN POINT COMPLETELY.

How so?

SoulDevourer
hows Supe gonna hurt Surfer? SS basicaly invulnerble

Spire
Originally posted by UniOmni
How so?

It's obvious that you don't read comics, since the concept of being a hero eludes you. Comics weren't conjured up for the purpose of having battle board idiots cry over someone having more powers than another.

Slaanesh
even going hand to hand..i don't see Supes putting down Surfer..

Zeuodin
Originally posted by Slaanesh
even going hand to hand..i don't see Supes putting down Surfer..
You have got to be kidding.

Slaanesh
no i'm not..Surfer >>> Supes..and i don't care what people think..they are not equals..not even close..

psycho gundam
i'm surprised how civil this thread is, i expected much anger....

but this thread does make a supeman x silver surfer battledome thread more relevant, everything always comes down to them. that shit needs to happen.

dmills
Originally posted by Slaanesh
no i'm not..Surfer >>> Supes..and i don't care what people think..they are not equals..not even close.. QFT. Love Supes, but the Surfer would wreck him.

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
I wasn't really thinking about skill but you're probably right there. Durability I disagree on. The two have comparable feats pretty much across the board and if either of them actually have an edge it's probably Surfer.

and i think it's superman.



you mean ranged right? as far as versatility, surfer has it in spades, but people seem to underrate superman's heat vision quite a bit on this forum. hv that has put down despero, halted omega beams and broken through forcefields that were impenetrable to everyone else.



i'm talking about the calibre of enemy they fight that can actually put them down/defeat/restrain them. superman can take on grundy, mongul, darkseid, despero (there's more to the guy than virtue and vice), green lanterns etc etc.

its incredibly rare for an enemy to dominate superman unless they're dominating the entire JLA.

can the same be said for surfer? i don't think so.



you don't think superman can close said distance?



hopefully you'll be satisfied now. stick out tongue

Originally posted by UniOmni
With hv, icebreath, superspeed and punches in bunches. I don't get the logic(hint-there is none to be found:&ltwink but thats DC editorials line and they maintain it.

it's the simplicity of him. he doesn't need willpower or magic or fancy gadgets. he simply is.

and he's a b*tch to kill.

there's logic there if you simply look at it objectively.

outavodka
why do ppl think surfer bites the big one to supes? I'm on countless forums and this and cbr seem to think the talented brick of all shits on surfer...i just don't get it

Juntai
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but there's a difference between "In character with PIS" and "In character without PIS". If fights were a carbon copy of the comics, there wouldn't be the rule. So yeah there's a difference.

That was just the first that came to mind, do you really think that there haven't been other instances of Surfer keeping his distance for most/all the fight? Supes has plenty of instances of getting tagged for being dumb too, but his fans still say that the Hulk can't touch him.

They both use creative methods to take down their foes and they're both good at doing it, unless Supes has a particularly impressive strategy in his history it doesn't really seem right to say that he's better than Surfer. CIS is applicable however. Not using your array powers effectively in combat consistently is closer related to a matter of CIS, while PIS is applicable if Surfer's fighting say . . Wolverine, and ends up loosing. We're talking about Surfer fighting top tier guys, in his class, and ending up in close quarters with them. It happens. It's not PIS. And not using powers effectively on panel as well as you and others like to present him being able to do so on the forum is another example of Surfer not being as combat efficient as Superman.

Superman gets tagged not entirely from being dumb, but because he CAN. He's outright admitted as much on panel several times. JLA Classified 15 comes to mind right off the top.

The entire JLA is decimated, laying unconscious, and Superman alone stands up to fight more.

Alien: Are you read for more?
Supes: Actually, I think I'm ready to stop playing with you.
Alien: Playing? I've beaten you half to death.

Supes: Not even close. I needed to measure your power and get a handle on what's really happening here. And that took time. So I just soaked up your punches while I worked it all out.

Yes, apparently Superman's enough of a dick to let all his teammates get pummeled unconscious before he even bothers taking off the kid gloves.

But there's also tons of examples of him avoiding when he wants to. I'm sure you've seen some in Superman threads at times. Both are applicable, sure. Superman can tank blows all day if he's not in any real danger, or he can avoid them. It's pretty simple conceptually.


I guess Superman being the military leader/general of a planet doesn't mean anything.

Also, there's an example in the up up and away arc where Superman is fighting multiple characters, and he's doing things like calculating if he hits character with a certain amount of force it'll throw him off balance a certain degree and cause that guy's blast to hit one of the other guys fighting him.
Lots of examples like that in Clark's history.
He's no Batman, or Captain America, but he's a hell of a fighter.

Juntai
Originally posted by -Pr-
and i think it's superman.



you mean ranged right? as far as versatility, surfer has it in spades, but people seem to underrate superman's heat vision quite a bit on this forum. hv that has put down despero, halted omega beams and broken through forcefields that were impenetrable to everyone else.



i'm talking about the calibre of enemy they fight that can actually put them down/defeat/restrain them. superman can take on grundy, mongul, darkseid, despero (there's more to the guy than virtue and vice), green lanterns etc etc.

its incredibly rare for an enemy to dominate superman unless they're dominating the entire JLA.

can the same be said for surfer? i don't think so.



you don't think superman can close said distance?



hopefully you'll be satisfied now. stick out tongue



it's the simplicity of him. he doesn't need willpower or magic or fancy gadgets. he simply is.

and he's a b*tch to kill.

there's logic there if you simply look at it objectively. thumb up

psycho gundam
with the sudden resurgence of battlezone interest, there needs to be a superman/silver surfer battlezone.

but instead of one person representing each character, it should be a team vs team fight. (unprecedented so it would be cool).

think about it (no offense to anyone i don't mention off the dome)
representing superman you have: pr, juntai, avalon, batdude, and galan, fighting those who represent the silver surfer: darthgoober, roldz, naija boy, mindship, and ...i forget but you get the idea stick out tongue

that shit would be dope

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
and i think it's superman.
Well then you're wrong stick out tongue /



Originally posted by -Pr-
you mean ranged right? as far as versatility, surfer has it in spades, but people seem to underrate superman's heat vision quite a bit on this forum. hv that has put down despero, halted omega beams and broken through forcefields that were impenetrable to everyone else.
And Surfer's blasts have destroyed planets, created blackholes, matched Thanos's energy signature, and(as an extremely high end example) nearly killed Thor with one shot. In regards to HV, it undoubtedly has some impressive feats so don't think I'm underrating it, but like I said before it won't be nearly as effective against Surfer as it is his standard rogues. Supes has bounced his HV off of things like mirrors right? Well one of the benefits of Surfer's skin is it's reflective properties...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_009_17-1.jpg

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/silver_surfer_1989_019_19.jpg

There are other examples demonstrating it, but those are the ones that first came to mind. And that's not to say that I think Supes's HV will be completely ineffective because I know it's not just a laser at it's upper levels, it's still a ranged advantage that Supes lacks.




Originally posted by -Pr-
i'm talking about the calibre of enemy they fight that can actually put them down/defeat/restrain them. superman can take on grundy, mongul, darkseid, despero (there's more to the guy than virtue and vice), green lanterns etc etc.
And Surfer can take on Hulk(comparable to Grundy), Millinius(Odin villain), Mephisto, Quasar, etc. etc. Like I said the two are neck and neck durability wise, and that's not even talking about the added durability of his forcefield. I mean this is the guy who survived extended combat with Murrungo-Mu while at only half power.

Originally posted by -Pr-
its incredibly rare for an enemy to dominate superman unless they're dominating the entire JLA.

can the same be said for surfer? i don't think so.
How often have you seen Surfer dominated by someone who wasn't a badass? He's got his low moments sure, but then again so does Supes.


Originally posted by -Pr-
you don't think superman can close said distance?
I think it would be pretty difficult while doing things like dodging/tanking blast, dealing with stuff like forcefields, or fighting off stuff like transmutation.



Originally posted by -Pr-
hopefully you'll be satisfied now. stick out tongue
Not really wink .

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
with the sudden resurgence of battlezone interest, there needs to be a superman/silver surfer battlezone.

but instead of one person representing each character, it should be a team vs team fight. (unprecedented so it would be cool).

think about it (no offense to anyone i don't mention off the dome)
representing superman you have: pr, juntai, avalon, batdude, and galan, fighting those who represent the silver surfer: darthgoober, roldz, naija boy, mindship, and ...i forget but you get the idea stick out tongue

that shit would be dope

tbh, i wouldn't want to be involved.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Well then you're wrong stick out tongue /




And Surfer's blasts have destroyed planets, created blackholes, matched Thanos's energy signature, and(as an extremely high end example) nearly killed Thor with one shot. In regards to HV, it undoubtedly has some impressive feats so don't think I'm underrating it, but like I said before it won't be nearly as effective against Surfer as it is his standard rogues. Supes has bounced his HV off of things like mirrors right? Well one of the benefits of Surfer's skin is it's reflective properties...

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/Silver_Surfer_1988_009_17-1.jpg

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/silver_surfer_1989_019_19.jpg

There are other examples demonstrating it, but those are the ones that first came to mind. And that's not to say that I think Supes's HV will be completely ineffective because I know it's not just a laser at it's upper levels, it's still a ranged advantage that Supes lacks.





And Surfer can take on Hulk(comparable to Grundy), Millinius(Odin villain), Mephisto, Quasar, etc. etc. Like I said the two are neck and neck durability wise, and that's not even talking about the added durability of his forcefield. I mean this is the guy who survived extended combat with Murrungo-Mu while at only half power.


How often have you seen Surfer dominated by someone who wasn't a badass? He's got his low moments sure, but then again so does Supes.



I think it would be pretty difficult while doing things like dodging/tanking blast, dealing with stuff like forcefields, or fighting off stuff like transmutation.




Not really wink .

sad

i have actually read surfer, you know, so you're already telling me stuff that i know. i just have a different opinion, is all.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by -Pr-
tbh, i wouldn't want to be involved. oh you know you won't be able to resist.

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
oh you know you won't be able to resist.

i wouldn't know who to represent. i love both characters.

psycho gundam
i decided for you

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
i decided for you

laughing out loud

as long as it's not in february, i'd be willing to consider it i guess...

darthgoober
Originally posted by Juntai
CIS is applicable however. Not using your array powers effectively in combat consistently is closer related to a matter of CIS, while PIS is applicable if Surfer's fighting say . . Wolverine, and ends up loosing. We're talking about Surfer fighting top tier guys, in his class, and ending up in close quarters with them. It happens. It's not PIS. And not using powers effectively on panel as well as you and others like to present him being able to do so on the forum is another example of Surfer not being as combat efficient as Superman.

Superman gets tagged not entirely from being dumb, but because he CAN. He's outright admitted as much on panel several times. JLA Classified 15 comes to mind right off the top.

The entire JLA is decimated, laying unconscious, and Superman alone stands up to fight more.

Alien: Are you read for more?
Supes: Actually, I think I'm ready to stop playing with you.
Alien: Playing? I've beaten you half to death.

Supes: Not even close. I needed to measure your power and get a handle on what's really happening here. And that took time. So I just soaked up your punches while I worked it all out.

Yes, apparently Superman's enough of a dick to let all his teammates get pummeled unconscious before he even bothers taking off the kid gloves.

But there's also tons of examples of him avoiding when he wants to. I'm sure you've seen some in Superman threads at times. Both are applicable, sure. Superman can tank blows all day if he's not in any real danger, or he can avoid them. It's pretty simple conceptually.


I guess Superman being the military leader/general of a planet doesn't mean anything.

Also, there's an example in the up up and away arc where Superman is fighting multiple characters, and he's doing things like calculating if he hits character with a certain amount of force it'll throw him off balance a certain degree and cause that guy's blast to hit one of the other guys fighting him.
Lots of examples like that in Clark's history.
He's no Batman, or Captain America, but he's a hell of a fighter.

If that were true Flash wouldn't use his speed effectively on the forum. But he's specifically sited as an example in the forum rules so consistency isn't really an issue in PIS. If Surfer's ever kept a distance for most/all of a fight with a physically superior opponent then he's shown it to be in character for him to do so. If he's ever used a forcefield offensively and/or defensively in combat then he's shown it to be in character for him to do so. Now if I were to say that Surfer charges his board with red solar energy and bullrushes Supes's neck at top speed for an easy decapitation THEN I would be pitching a tactic that was out of character for Surfer to do because even though it's within Surfer's to do just that, it's not the kind of thing Surfer would ever actually do.

And by the same token, it can be said that Surfer gets tagged and forgoes exotic tactics because he can. There are multiple instances of him taking a beating to keep from hurting the other guy. Course he's not bloodlusted in those instances...

And like Supes, Surfer has plenty of instances of him dodging when he wants. He also has plenty of instances of using things like forefields and transmutation in combat.

And Surfer's got multiple instances of him blitzing entire fleets of spaceships and dodging multiple incoming blast and decisively disabling all of them in moments without killing a soul. He also organized the assault that killed Galactus. He also played a key role in the Kree/Skrull war as an ally to the Skrulls. Like I said both of these guys are creative and come up with all kinds of innovative ways to take down their foes and while your example is impressive more complicated doesn't equal better.

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
tbh, i wouldn't want to be involved.



sad

i have actually read surfer, you know, so you're already telling me stuff that i know. i just have a different opinion, is all.
But I'm curious as to WHY you have a different opinion? I answered pretty much every example of durability and gave superior feats for energy blast. And just so you we don't get hung up specifically as to whether or not Surfer's feats are better, I also showed why Supes's primary ranged attack would be less effective than normal so Surfer should still have the edge even if we considered the feats comparable. Since all Surfer has to do is keep his distance to win and he has all the necessary tools to do so, it seems to me like he's the clear winner.

I know you're a Surfer fan and I think you're a good guy so don't think I'm accusing you of bias, I'm genuinely curious as to the specific feats of Supes that makes him superior to Surfer IYO.

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
But I'm curious as to WHY you have a different opinion? I answered pretty much every example of durability and gave superior feats for energy blast. And just so you we don't get hung up specifically as to whether or not Surfer's feats are better, I also showed why Supes's primary ranged attack would be less effective than normal so Surfer should still have the edge even if we considered the feats comparable. Since all Surfer has to do is keep his distance to win and he has all the necessary tools to do so, it seems to me like he's the clear winner.

I know you're a Surfer fan and I think you're a good guy so don't think I'm accusing you of bias, I'm genuinely curious as to the specific feats of Supes that makes him superior to Surfer IYO.

my opinion is different because i don't agree. i've read both characters at length, and superman just strikes me as being more impressive. just because you can't understand WHY i feel the way i do, doesn't mean i don't have valid reasons for them (imo).

what you gave me were YOUR ideas of superior feats and examples. i just don't agree. it's really that simple lol...

as for why i think Superman is better, in terms of an engagement? His ever increasing power since OWAW.

darthgoober
Originally posted by -Pr-
my opinion is different because i don't agree. i've read both characters at length, and superman just strikes me as being more impressive. just because you can't understand WHY i feel the way i do, doesn't mean i don't have valid reasons for them (imo).

what you gave me were YOUR ideas of superior feats and examples. i just don't agree. it's really that simple lol...

as for why i think Superman is better, in terms of an engagement? His ever increasing power since OWAW.
I don't doubt you have valid reasons for them, that's why I asked what they were. I'm not trying to force my opinion down your throat or anything, I'm just engaging in a debate. If you don't want to discuss it or nothing can convince you just let me know and I'll drop the whole thing, comparing feats is how I debate so I'm trying to do comparisons.

-Pr-
Originally posted by darthgoober
I don't doubt you have valid reasons for them, that's why I asked what they were. I'm not trying to force my opinion down your throat or anything, I'm just engaging in a debate. If you don't want to discuss it or nothing can convince you just let me know and I'll drop the whole thing, comparing feats is how I debate so I'm trying to do comparisons.

honestly, i don't see you or i changing each other's minds. i'm not trying to fob you off or anything. i just really don't feel like digging through all my surfer comics right now lol...

Juntai
Originally posted by darthgoober
If that were true Flash wouldn't use his speed effectively on the forum. But he's specifically sited as an example in the forum rules so consistency isn't really an issue in PIS. If Surfer's ever kept a distance for most/all of a fight with a physically superior opponent then he's shown it to be in character for him to do so. If he's ever used a forcefield offensively and/or defensively in combat then he's shown it to be in character for him to do so. Now if I were to say that Surfer charges his board with red solar energy and bullrushes Supes's neck at top speed for an easy decapitation THEN I would be pitching a tactic that was out of character for Surfer to do because even though it's within Surfer's to do just that, it's not the kind of thing Surfer would ever actually do.

And by the same token, it can be said that Surfer gets tagged and forgoes exotic tactics because he can. There are multiple instances of him taking a beating to keep from hurting the other guy. Course he's not bloodlusted in those instances...

And like Supes, Surfer has plenty of instances of him dodging when he wants. He also has plenty of instances of using things like forefields and transmutation in combat.

And Surfer's got multiple instances of him blitzing entire fleets of spaceships and dodging multiple incoming blast and decisively disabling all of them in moments without killing a soul. He also organized the assault that killed Galactus. He also played a key role in the Kree/Skrull war as an ally to the Skrulls. Like I said both of these guys are creative and come up with all kinds of innovative ways to take down their foes and while your example is impressive more complicated doesn't equal better. It's obviously more in character against top level opponents to end up in close quarters. I could post scans of him running into punches left and right and right clear down an entire page like I did in the Surfer vs Superman thread a year or so ago that drew a lot of criticism if I had to.

Disabling ships isn't quite the same as using combat tactics efficiently against very powerful opponent.

But like PR is suggesting, we'll get nowhere trying to convince you of anything in this particular debate involving Surfer, or any debate involving Surfer for that matter. I even recall just recently you debating the Surfer vs Thor for a dozen pages with clear scans of Thor rocking Surfer left and right with little difficulty, while Surfer had help. lol.

Mindship
Originally posted by -Pr-
i love both characters. Same here. Surfer and Supes are my favorites. Two reasons though why I put Surfer > Supes...

1. Flying standing up is cooler than standard horizontal flying position.
2. Silver skivies > red skivies over blue tights.

leonidas
Originally posted by Mindship
Same here. Surfer and Supes are my favorites. Two reasons though why I put Surfer > Supes...

1. Flying standing up is cooler than standard horizontal flying position.
2. Silver skivies > red skivies over blue tights.

damn, now that's some irrefyteable sh!t . . .

but, by that token--winged helmet and sweet looking ancient norse hammer > silver skivies. i knew if i thought long enough i'd come up with an argument you couldn't counter that clearly proves thor > ss!! nwoot

-Pr-
Originally posted by Mindship
Same here. Surfer and Supes are my favorites. Two reasons though why I put Surfer > Supes...

1. Flying standing up is cooler than standard horizontal flying position.
2. Silver skivies > red skivies over blue tights.

surfer is one of the best vanilla posers in comics, though so is superman imo.

UniOmni
Originally posted by Spire
It's obvious that you don't read comics, since the concept of being a hero eludes you. Comics weren't conjured up for the purpose of having battle board idiots cry over someone having more powers than another.

See, when you say things like that, it tells me to read your posts with eyebrow lifted.

I own plenty of comics....so many that the money spent on them is truthfully embarassing.

And you make no sense.
The concept of being a hero means nothing in this discussion, since on KMC the debates are based around the powerset of the characters, and shown applications of said powersets.
If this was Herochat, the concept of a hero would mean something because they take into account personality, etc. Not here.

So next time you try to strawman ME, rethink it or try with more subtlety, since you didn't refute anything i said but merely fell back on the battleboard idjit insult.

-Pr-
Originally posted by UniOmni
See, when you say things like that, it tells me to read your posts with eyebrow lifted.

I own plenty of comics....so many that the money spent on them is truthfully embarassing.

And you make no sense.
The concept of being a hero means nothing in this discussion, since on KMC the debates are based around the powerset of the characters, and shown applications of said powersets.
If this was Herochat, the concept of a hero would mean something because they take into account personality, etc. Not here.

So next time you try to strawman ME, rethink it or try with more subtlety, since you didn't refute anything i said but merely fell back on the battleboard idjit insult.

you HAVE read the rules, right? particularly this section:

Originally posted by -Pr-
Clarification of CIS

Ok people, here are the finalised rules as regards PIS, CIS, and everything related to it.

PIS is, as always, off unless the thread starter says it's ON.

CIS, as was said before, is now a more diverse term, but is not as vague as before.

While CIS still exists in the form of characters like Rhino (who are just too stupid to know better), it also exists in one other form.

This is known as Character Inhibited Power. This applies to characters that have intelligence, like the Silver Surfer, Superman, and so on and so forth.

As Bada said:

"It's a self imposed limitation in certain circumstances which there is concern for civilians and buildings for the most part. It's not stupidity, it's a limitation set until the threat exceeds a certain threshold."

What this means is that people like the Surfer and Superman and so on will not use the full extent of their powers if it will endanger civilians. It doesn't, though, mean they will fight like idiots. The character's personality is an integral part of the match and dictates how they will perform. This is the crux of the rules we've come up with. It doesn't come down to powers, it comes down to the man or woman that weilds them.

In accordance with this, several factors come in to play in debates:

The Opponent, Basic Information, the Arena and the Character's Personality and Experience

Those four are key.

Example:

If Martian Manhunter fights say, Juggernaut.

MM doesn't personally know Juggernaut (Opponent). So he has Basic Information. This is categorised as being what the general public would know about the Juggernaut. It goes by averages. If that average man or woman on the street knows that Juggernaut is super strong, then MM knows. The average man or woman doesn't know, however, that the Juggernaut is weak against psionics. J'onn would approach with caution, not knowing whether Juggernaut was in his weight class, and not knowing the full extent of the man's powers.

However. If Martian Manhunter went up against Amazo, he would know to go for broke right at the start, because he KNOWS Amazo (Personality and Experience). He will use his speed, his strength, his shapeshifting. This is because if he knows what it takes to bring down Amazo, or he believes his standard attacks won't work. If J'onn was fighting Juggernaut, there would come a point when he would realise that normal attacks won't work, and would up his game. Any character that doesn't suffer from Rhino-esque stupidity is capable of this. Even with this, though, the Arena comes in to play. If civilians are in danger, J'onn won't shapeshift in to a fire breathing dragon. Juggernaut on the other hand doesn't care, so wouldn't hesitate to toss cars and trucks full of civilians at the Martian.

Examples:

Thor knows he can't out-brawl Hulk, so uses exotic powers sooner than he would against the likes of Superman, as Superman is an unknown to him.

Superman would go all out against Doomsday or Despero because he knows how powerful they are. Against the Hulk, he's going to take a few punches before realising he'll have to use something rather than slugging it out. He won't bathe the street in heat vision either, because there are civilians nearby.

It ALL comes down to the CHARACTER, not the POWERSET.

right?

UniOmni
Originally posted by -Pr-
and i think it's superman.



you mean ranged right? as far as versatility, surfer has it in spades, but people seem to underrate superman's heat vision quite a bit on this forum. hv that has put down despero, halted omega beams and broken through forcefields that were impenetrable to everyone else.



i'm talking about the calibre of enemy they fight that can actually put them down/defeat/restrain them. superman can take on grundy, mongul, darkseid, despero (there's more to the guy than virtue and vice), green lanterns etc etc.

its incredibly rare for an enemy to dominate superman unless they're dominating the entire JLA.

can the same be said for surfer? i don't think so.



you don't think superman can close said distance?



hopefully you'll be satisfied now. stick out tongue



it's the simplicity of him. he doesn't need willpower or magic or fancy gadgets. he simply is.

and he's a b*tch to kill.

there's logic there if you simply look at it objectively.

No PR, there still is no logic there.

You have GL, a guy who can take hits from Superman level beings and return them, but also has a ring that can hold back big bangs, blackholes, create quasars and do basically anything. Can transmute, rewrite dna, etc.

Yet even tho they can do all those things i said and more, he's still seen as more powerful? That doesn't make a lick of sense and we both know it.

Its editorial and we both know it.

Hey, i've got a ring that i can use to rewrite my dna into lets say, Kryptonian dna, and i still retain the do anything fancy gadget on my ring.....that lets me do whatever as long as there's a charge and i have the mind to do it.

vs

I can punch hard, breath ice, glare lasers and have strong skin.

His simplicity hurts him in reality, but no, not when it's Superman.

But put enraged Hulk(maddest we've seen him) vs Superman, and suddenly the extra tricks make all the difference and Hulk is a one trick pony, right?

Hulk = One trick
Superman = 5 tricks
GL = Think up tricks as he goes along
Surfer = The same as GL

Yet, Superman is more powerful? Please, spare me the double standards.

And nope, i wasn't aware you guys changed the rules. Before, they were basically cbr rules, which is powerset is key.

-Pr-
Originally posted by UniOmni
No PR, there still is no logic there.

You have GL, a guy who can take hits from Superman level beings and return them, but also has a ring that can hold back big bangs, blackholes, create quasars and do basically anything. Can transmute, rewrite dna, etc.

Yet even tho they can do all those things i said and more, he's still seen as more powerful? That doesn't make a lick of sense and we both know it.

Its editorial and we both know it.

Hey, i've got a ring that i can use to rewrite my dna into lets say, Kryptonian dna, and i still retain the do anything fancy gadget on my ring.....that lets me do whatever as long as there's a charge and i have the mind to do it.

vs

I can punch hard, breath ice, glare lasers and have strong skin.

His simplicity hurts him in reality, but no, not when it's Superman.

But put enraged Hulk(maddest we've seen him) vs Superman, and suddenly the extra tricks make all the difference and Hulk is a one trick pony, right?

Hulk = One trick
Superman = 5 tricks
GL = Think up tricks as he goes along
Surfer = The same as GL

Yet, Superman is more powerful? Please, spare me the double standards.

i disagree.

UniOmni
Originally posted by -Pr-
i disagree.

No evidence?
No debate?
Just i disagree?

What is there to disagree to?

When a guy can do everything you can do, plus more, he's more powerful than you, period.

Its not subjective, it's pure common sense.

-Pr-
Originally posted by UniOmni
No evidence?
No debate?
Just i disagree?

What is there to disagree to?

When a guy can do everything you can do, plus more, he's more powerful than you, period.

Its not subjective, it's pure common sense.

i stated why i disagreed in my earlier post.

i don't believe that being more versatile means you're superior.

i might have 99 ways to put someone down, but if it only takes 1, then 98 of them are not much use to me.

simplicity is not a bad thing by any means.

xJLxKing
Originally posted by UniOmni
No PR, there still is no logic there.

You have GL, a guy who can take hits from Superman level beings and return them, but also has a ring that can hold back big bangs, blackholes, create quasars and do basically anything. Can transmute, rewrite dna, etc.

Yet even tho they can do all those things i said and more, he's still seen as more powerful? That doesn't make a lick of sense and we both know it.

Its editorial and we both know it.

Hey, i've got a ring that i can use to rewrite my dna into lets say, Kryptonian dna, and i still retain the do anything fancy gadget on my ring.....that lets me do whatever as long as there's a charge and i have the mind to do it.

vs

I can punch hard, breath ice, glare lasers and have strong skin.

His simplicity hurts him in reality, but no, not when it's Superman.

But put enraged Hulk(maddest we've seen him) vs Superman, and suddenly the extra tricks make all the difference and Hulk is a one trick pony, right?

Hulk = One trick
Superman = 5 tricks
GL = Think up tricks as he goes along
Surfer = The same as GL

Yet, Superman is more powerful? Please, spare me the double standards.

And nope, i wasn't aware you guys changed the rules. Before, they were basically cbr rules, which is powerset is key.
You are wrong in so many ways.
For instance, Hal can take hits from Superman, but only a small amount. At most, it's a few. Yeah, his power like you said, can stop big bang" and stuff like that, but you understand the PIS rule?

Post how many times they attack creatures with full power(example like you stated) and then compare it to the amount of times he hasn't done it.

Then there is the fact that some of those feat were done in PC

In addition, you can have 99 ways to kill me, but you won't need it if the 1 always work.

Mindship
Originally posted by leonidas
...winged helmet and sweet looking ancient norse hammer > silver skivies. i knew if i thought long enough i'd come up with an argument you couldn't counter that clearly proves thor > ss!! nwoot Only cuz he has hair: long, flowing, envy-of-every-California-girl hair.

Originally posted by -Pr-
surfer is one of the best vanilla posers in comics, though so is superman imo. Oddly, SS seems to do more speedskater or skiier posing than surfer posing.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Mindship
Only cuz he has hair: long, flowing, envy-of-every-California-girl hair.

Oddly, SS seems to do more speedskater or skiier posing than surfer posing.

yeah lol...

UniOmni
Originally posted by -Pr-
i stated why i disagreed in my earlier post.

i don't believe that being more versatile means you're superior.

i might have 99 ways to put someone down, but if it only takes 1, then 98 of them are not much use to me.

simplicity is not a bad thing by any means.

But if i have the 1 way, as well as 99 other ways, i am superior.

You're right, 99% of the time in comics, a punch will do.

But should you come up against a guy who doesn't blink at physical force, having the 99 other options means i have a higher chance to succeed where 1 trick guy fails.

And that means i am superior.

Its why the Surfer vs Stardust debate is back and forth, whereas with Superman its pretty much written in stone.

There is nothing that Superman has done that Surfer couldn't likely replicate, but the reverse can't be said for Superman.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Juntai
It's obviously more in character against top level opponents to end up in close quarters. I could post scans of him running into punches left and right and right clear down an entire page like I did in the Surfer vs Superman thread a year or so ago that drew a lot of criticism if I had to.

Disabling ships isn't quite the same as using combat tactics efficiently against very powerful opponent.

But like PR is suggesting, we'll get nowhere trying to convince you of anything in this particular debate involving Surfer, or any debate involving Surfer for that matter. I even recall just recently you debating the Surfer vs Thor for a dozen pages with clear scans of Thor rocking Surfer left and right with little difficulty, while Surfer had help. lol.
And I could do the same for Superman or the Flash, but you'd still likely say that guys like Hulk and Juggernaut couldn't touch them. Why? Because regardless of the frequency of it happening Supes and Flash not using their powers as effectively as they should constitutes PIS.

Was the multiple opponents in your example particularly powerful or something?

So you're going to imply bias on my part when you're only willing to ignore PIS in regards to Superman laughing out loud .

Juntai
Originally posted by darthgoober
And I could do the same for Superman or the Flash, but you'd still likely say that guys like Hulk and Juggernaut couldn't touch them. Why? Because regardless of the frequency of it happening Supes and Flash not using their powers as effectively as they should constitutes PIS.

Was the multiple opponents in your example particularly powerful or something?

So you're going to imply bias on my part when you're only willing to ignore PIS in regards to Superman laughing out loud . I already acknowledged both Superman's application of accepting blows because he can and dodging blows because he can. Both are fully written into his character on panel with specific regards to them.

I like how you say I 'probably would' say something, then follow it up with something about ignoring PIS, as if I'd ignored anything, except in your fabricated scenario there. Especially a couple of posts after I've already dealt with this exact issue head on.

Keep trying to attack me personally though, instead of talking about the characters, because it's obviously your best approach. I'm totally on my heels now.

You're just getting personal because you as well realise that 9 times out of 10, this is going to end in close quarters, and more often than not, Superman is going to pummell him when that happens.

Naija boy
lol at this blatant doublestandard.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Juntai
I already acknowledged both Superman's application of accepting blows because he can and dodging blows because he can. Both are fully written into his character on panel with specific regards to them.

I like how you say I 'probably would' say something, then follow it up with something about ignoring PIS, as if I'd ignored anything, except in your fabricated scenario there. Especially a couple of posts after I've already dealt with this exact issue head on.

Keep trying to attack me personally though, instead of talking about the characters, because it's obviously your best approach. I'm totally on my heels now.

You're just getting personal because you as well realise that 9 times out of 10, this is going to end in close quarters, and more often than not, Superman is going to pummell him when that happens.
And both are fully written into Surfer's character. What's more, my example didn't JUST mention Supes, it also mentioned Flash. You know, the guy who's specifically mentioned in the forum rules? Regardless of how many times Flash fights like a moron at sub sonic speeds and gets tagged, it's considered PIS... so consistency is not an issue.

Now if you're honestly of the opinion that someone like Hulk or Juggernaut would tag Supes as much in a forum fight as much as Supes would tag them then my bad, but I'm willing to bet that I could do a search and find posts where you say the opposite.

You're the one who started getting personal here, don't get huffy just because I reciprocated. And if you're honestly of the opinion that Supes beats Surfer 9 /10 in a no weakness exploitation scenario then I'd love to see you step up and put your money where your mouth is...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t519660.html

But I'm willing to bet that you won't... just like none of Supes's other fans will. Why? Because once I prove that Surfer beats Supes without exploiting his weaknesses it means that he absolutely stomps in a fight that features them.

Kris Blaze
Juntai just got called out.

Juntai
Originally posted by darthgoober
And both are fully written into Surfer's character. What's more, my example didn't JUST mention Supes, it also mentioned Flash. You know, the guy who's specifically mentioned in the forum rules? Regardless of how many times Flash fights like a moron at sub sonic speeds and gets tagged, it's considered PIS... so consistency is not an issue.

Now if you're honestly of the opinion that someone like Hulk or Juggernaut would tag Supes as much in a forum fight as much as Supes would tag them then my bad, but I'm willing to bet that I could do a search and find posts where you say the opposite.

You're the one who started getting personal here, don't get huffy just because I reciprocated. And if you're honestly of the opinion that Supes beats Surfer 9 /10 in a no weakness exploitation scenario then I'd love to see you step up and put your money where your mouth is...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t519660.html

But I'm willing to bet that you won't... just like none of Supes's other fans will. Why? Because once I prove that Surfer beats Supes without exploiting his weaknesses it means that he absolutely stomps in a fight that features them. I didn't suggest Superman wins 9 out 10, I said 9 out ten times they will end up in close quarters, and 'more often than not' out of those times, will end in Surfer getting physically overpowered.

Surfer ends up in close quarters with Lunatik, pummeled.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3108/mcp17308rv2.jpg
http://img162.imageshack.us/i/mcp17309et4.jpg/

Surfer gets close quarters with Thanos, pummeled.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4231/surfer11tn.jpg

Close quarters with Thanos again, pummeled.
http://img224.imageshack.us/i/surfer34as.jpg/

Ends up close quarters with Thor, one of a few times in this arc alone, pummeled.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/WarlockInfinity-23-17.jpg

And that's just ones from the last few minutes of searching. I know there's similar situations with Drax and others I could find with little difficulty most likely.

So again, against top tier characters, Surfer tends to manage to get close, Superman will also be actively trying to close this gap as well, and he's right up in speed with Surfer, and is much more likely to use it in direct combat as history shows.

And again, Superman gets to amp in this fight.

He's exponentially faster, stronger, more durable, etc etc etc.

But, if you feel Surfer is going to run away and evade an amped Superman the whole time and wear him down with blasts, we just have to disagree, which is what I was saying before, I won't be able to convince you of much regarding Surfer.

Spire
Originally posted by UniOmni
Nonsense.

Lets look at your original spill:

Originally posted by UniOmni
DC = Superman is top dom. Nothing wrong with that belief, since the comics support that notion. Superman is on a team that has included beings that can create quasars, "heavens ladder", fast forward time for entire celestial bodies, contain big bangs, hold planets, etc and yet, he's still considered the most powerful being on earth.

With hv, icebreath, superspeed and punches in bunches. I don't get the logic(hint-there is none to be found:&ltwink but thats DC editorials line and they maintain it.

So basically you can't understand why Superman is top dog when others have more powers.

Now if you actually read some comics instead of searching forums for scans of powaz and training for you battle board mentality, you might actually find that:

* Superman is a classic character
* Superman is a popular character
* Superman is a hero
* You can be a hero with 1 power or 100 powers
* You can be a hero a be more/less powerful than others
* Heroes in times of adversity can/will do things they otherwise would/could not - classic comic book tradition
* Comics were not created with the intent of pleasing battle board whiners
* No one gives a sh!t about powaz

Cry more.

leonidas
nuts

SoulDevourer
superman faster & more durable then surfer??? no expression

supe maybe stronger & better resist against blunt attacks but thats it

darthgoober
Originally posted by Juntai
I didn't suggest Superman wins 9 out 10, I said 9 out ten times they will end up in close quarters, and 'more often than not' out of those times, will end in Surfer getting physically overpowered.

Surfer ends up in close quarters with Lunatik, pummeled.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3108/mcp17308rv2.jpg
http://img162.imageshack.us/i/mcp17309et4.jpg/

Surfer gets close quarters with Thanos, pummeled.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4231/surfer11tn.jpg

Close quarters with Thanos again, pummeled.
http://img224.imageshack.us/i/surfer34as.jpg/

Ends up close quarters with Thor, one of a few times in this arc alone, pummeled.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/WarlockInfinity-23-17.jpg

And that's just ones from the last few minutes of searching. I know there's similar situations with Drax and others I could find with little difficulty most likely.

So again, against top tier characters, Surfer tends to manage to get close, Superman will also be actively trying to close this gap as well, and he's right up in speed with Surfer, and is much more likely to use it in direct combat as history shows.

And again, Superman gets to amp in this fight.

He's exponentially faster, stronger, more durable, etc etc etc.

But, if you feel Surfer is going to run away and evade an amped Superman the whole time and wear him down with blasts, we just have to disagree, which is what I was saying before, I won't be able to convince you of much regarding Surfer.

Well you don't have to argue for him to win 9/10 in the BZ, just argue for him to take the majority. So, you up for it?

And if I looked through 10 Flash comics at random, he'd probably fight at sub light(and maybe even sonic) speeds in 7 of them. But the rules still say that his fights lasting longer than 3 panels constitutes PIS. So regardless of it's frequency, if a character refrains from using tactics that would guarantee the win for no apparent reason it's PIS. And in regards to your first example, it's not a good one. See Surfer only "ended up in close quarters" because he was distracted by Skreet. He did voluntarily go into strait h2h with Lunatik later on, but the instance you posted doesn't support your stance.... not to mention that when Surfer DID voluntarily go h2h with Lunatik, Lunatik couldn't land a shot while Surfer was pummeling him for a minute. And when Surfer realized that they were too evenly matched in the same fight, he won by stranding Lunatik on the planet via transmutation and leaving. So yeah, bad example all around.

See there are two kinds of CIS, being genuinely stupid like the Rhino or Absorbing Man and CIP(character inhibited power) which applies in scenario's where there are things like civilians present. What you're talking about(characters not using their powers effectively even though they've shown the ability and inclination to do so in the past) falls under the category of PIS. You're trying to alter the definition of CIS to suit your argument but debates don't work that way.

I know he can amp in this fight just like I know Surfer can exploit his weaknesses in this fight, our discussion isn't actually about this particular thread because you jumped in on a discussion I was having with pr that involved circumstances outside the thread.

You'd be hard pressed to prove that he's faster or more durable.

There's a difference between keeping your distance to use your ranged advantage and running away.

Kris Blaze
Surfer also dropped Durok in the future, when he and Thor failed to beat him.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Surfer also dropped Durok in the future, when he and Thor failed to beat him.
Yep. People say that Surfer hardly ever uses exotic tactics but the truth is that he uses them all the time, it's just that he uses different ones in different issues. I mean do people really expect to see multiple comics that feature using blasts, h2h speedblitzes, BFR, forcefields, intangibility, offensive transmutation, internal energy manipulation, and all the other conceivable tactics the PC could possibly pull off in the same fight against a single villain before they'll credit him with the ability/inclination? The fight scenes alone would take up 40 pages. And the funny thing is that if they DID see a comic like that they'd just say "well it must not be a very effective tactic for him or he wouldn't have had to do all that other stuff" roll eyes (sarcastic) .

KuRuPT Thanosi
Why is it that "certain" supes supporters who have been calling out people lately.. suddenly are no where to be found?

Galan007
since amping is an option for supes, IF this battle resorted to a close quarters brawl, and IF supes had a sun-amp, i believe he would dominate surfer.

i think many people are forgetting that a pissed off supes damn near tore darkseid in half, when he was merely within close vicinity of the sun:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5468/12176682.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7929/90013468.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3678/92905745.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7660/40098164.jpg



i can't fathom surfer fairing well against THAT kind of onslaught. *shrugs*

darthgoober
Originally posted by Galan007
since amping is an option for supes, IF this battle resorted to a close quarters brawl, and IF supes had a sun-amp, i believe he would dominate surfer.

i think many people are forgetting that a pissed off supes damn near tore darkseid in half, when he was merely within close vicinity of the sun:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5468/12176682.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7929/90013468.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3678/92905745.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7660/40098164.jpg

...and that wasn't even a 'true'/OWAW sundip.

i can't fathom surfer fairing well against THAT kind of onslaught. *shrugs*
I think it would depend on the length of the sundip. Unless he was dipping for quite a while, it shouldn't take Surfer too long to drain off the excess power. But I agree with you that if Surfer tried to go h2h with a sundipped Supes he wouldn't fair well at all.

Wild Shadow
ever heard of intangibility? SS would see the energy in clark's body and what he is doing and could put a stop to it or amp up himself.

i am curious is that story arc canon to mainstream DCU?

i get so confused some times.

Galan007
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i am curious is that story arc canon to mainstream DCU?

i get so confused some times. the emperor joker arc was specifically mentioned during one of the "Superman/Batman" issues, so logic dictates it must be canon to the mainstream DCU.

Kris Blaze
Originally posted by Galan007
the emperor joker arc was specifically mentioned during one of the "Superman/Batman" issues, so logic dictates it must be canon to the mainstream DCU.

Didn't Dan Didio say that Superman/Batman was not canon to the main universe?

psycho gundam
i was thinking the same thing, cause some of that stuff is r*tarded as phuck. surfer could kill superman by shrinking him to subatomic proportions reducing his lifespan and such with ease.

and this thread is starting to get heated.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Didn't Dan Didio say that Superman/Batman was not canon to the main universe?

who told you that?

psycho gundam
apparently didio did

-Pr-
Originally posted by psycho gundam
apparently didio did

it's the first i heard of it, tbh.

iceman24567
Superman/Batman is too ridiculous to be canon

batdude123
Originally posted by iceman24567
Superman/Batman is too ridiculous to be canon

Except that it is canon.

And I've never seen Didio say it isn't.

iceman24567
sick

KuRuPT Thanosi
Yeah its pretty bad no doubt. Whether it is or isn't... I don't know....but imo it shouldn't lol.

-Pr-
Originally posted by iceman24567
Superman/Batman is too ridiculous to be canon

don't be silly. public enemies was so good they made a movie out of it. the return of supergirl was good. the universe hopping one just after it was good too.

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