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Superman
Martian Manhunter
Firestorm
Hal Jordan
Wonder Woman
Orion
Captain Atom
Light Ray

vs.

Thor
Vision
Sersi
Quasar
Binary
Forgotten One
Sentry
Star Hawk

JLA

a fair fight indeed...I see both teams getting 5/10

I give this to the avengers 7/10

I think the Avengers take a slight majority also.

Avengers 6/10

(Man, I looked again and that Avengers team is freaking stacked. It could be more than just 6.)

Orion? Lightray? MM? Superman? CA? JLA's lineup is also stacked.

Yes Orion Lightray MM Superman CA you saw correctly...

i think the JLA team is overall more powerful..

JLA wins.

hmm... Starhawk's precognition and Quasar's cosmic awareness can help the avengers team beat a small majority

Binary
The forgotten One
Sentry
Thor
Quasar

The power out put on this team is going to be CRAZY.

Jla win a majority.

Light Ray could amp Supes to uber levels.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Light Ray could amp Supes to uber levels.

and then Quasar drain him

Or binary feels all of that solar energy coming off of him and drains him EASILY.

Drains him easily huh?

Originally posted by carver9
Or binary feels all of that solar energy coming off of him and drains him EASILY.
Keep dreaming!


Superman gets amped by Lightray and is easily becomes the top gun on both teams. With that said, JLA win. Don't forget, JLA have better team work too

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Keep dreaming!


Superman gets amped by Lightray and is easily becomes the top gun on both teams. With that said, JLA win. Don't forget, JLA have better team work too

Better teamwork, I agree.

Would that help in a fight against heros that is basically on another level power wise and have a thousand options in this fight, no.

Jla have brute strength, the avengers have brute strength, versatility, and power.

Binary or Quasar shouldnt have a problem draining Supes, its one of there trademarks, draining energy so I dont even know why you disputed that.

Originally posted by carver9
Better teamwork, I agree.

Would that help in a fight against heros that is basically on another level power wise and have a thousand options in this fight, no.

Jla have brute strength, the avengers have brute strength, versatility, and power.

Binary or Quasar shouldnt have a problem draining Supes, its one of there trademarks, draining energy so I dont even know why you disputed that.
You think they can drain superman while Lightray is amping him? Don't count on it.

Wrong again btw. They all have power versatility and strength
JLA have everything that Avengers have even telepathy, matter manipulation, time...etc.

Firestorm turns Quasar and Binary into salt.

Problem solved.

Team one has stronger people on their team granted team two is more versatile overall. On another level power wise nope.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You think they can drain superman while Lightray is amping him? Don't count on it.

Wrong again btw. They all have power versatility and strength
JLA have everything that Avengers have even telepathy, matter manipulation, time...etc.

So basically you are saying no one will be fighting light ray. Lightray and Superman would be over there prepping while the rest of the jla hold off the avenger.

How about while lightray is amping Superman thor take his pick on who he wants to hit with the god blast, light ray or Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
So basically you are saying no one will be fighting light ray. Lightray and Superman would be over there prepping while the rest of the jla hold off the avenger.

How about while lightray is amping Superman thor take his pick on who he wants to hit with the god blast, light ray or Superman.
That's not how it work. If you want to argue about Thor trying to hit people with God Blast, then they will dodge it now what??

Originally posted by xJLxKing
That's not how it work. If you want to argue about Thor trying to hit people with God Blast, then they will dodge it now what??

no i'm pretty sure supes will do something stupid and try and tank a blast that he doesn't know too much about. Seems to tank alot of stuff when he could simply dodge it.

Anyway, still not really sure about the fight but could be leaning toward T1.

Avengers 6/10

Originally posted by Warlord
and then Quasar drain him

You do know Lightray can do the same? He can control energy just like Quasar. Hell, he can even create SUNS out of nothing.

Thor and Sentry are also power drainers. Marvel seems more versatile in this matchup.

facepalm

JLA stomps.

Firestorm turns Hal into a saltshaker.

Superman salts team 2.

Originally posted by tkitna
Thor and Sentry are also power drainers. Marvel seems more versatile in this matchup.

Hal, Lightray, Orion, and CA can also drain energy.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Light Ray could amp Supes to uber levels.

Yeah we're gonna have a sun-dipped Superman here

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Firestorm turns Hal into a saltshaker.

Superman salts team 2.

haermm

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Hal, Lightray, Orion, and CA can also drain energy.

Ok, so they all sit there and have a power draining contest. For the sake of arguments, lets just go along with the fact that theres no power draining or amping.

Marvel wins majority.

So, take away their versatility? What kind of battle is this? Lightray is known to do all kinds of shit and he's FASTER than light to boot. He can literally take down a couple of members at once.

Lightray can travel faster than light

So can Superman, so can Sentry and so can Thor. Are they all going to take down several members because of this?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Lightray can travel faster than light

So can Superman, so can Sentry and so can Thor. Are they all going to take down several members because of this?

Superman was actually at awe of Lightray's speed. Lightray has even outraced Black Racer, so he's probably as fast or maybe faster than the Flash.

One feat for instance was that when he was moving 8 times the speed of light, the photons he created in the wake were hot enough to power stars. That's fast and powerful right there.

Versatility? So you want Lightray to amp Superman so that its a fairer fight for DC? Binary has also been shown to be able to operate at light speeds so she should be able to contain Lightray. At her most powerful version, she could possibly solo team 1.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Superman was actually at awe of Lightray's speed. Lightray has even outraced Black Racer, so he's probably as fast or maybe faster than the Flash.

One feat for instance was that when he was moving 8 times the speed of light, the photons he created in the wake were hot enough to power stars. That's fast and powerful right there.

- Doesn't matter, Superman's gone just as fast.
- Doesn't matter, Barry and Wally both outraced him.
- Doesn't matter, powering a star isn't particularly powerful on herald level.

Originally posted by tkitna
Versatility? So you want Lightray to amp Superman so that its a fairer fight for DC? Binary has also been shown to be able to operate at light speeds so she should be able to contain Lightray. At her most powerful version, she could possibly solo team 1.

Do I want Lightray to power Supes up? That's not my strategy, friendo. An insane Lightray was powerful enough to keep up with Takion for a bit.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
- Doesn't matter, Superman's gone just as fast.
- Doesn't matter, Barry and Wally both outraced him.
- Doesn't matter, powering a star isn't particularly powerful on herald level.

Doesn't it take time for Superman to exceed light speed? Lightray can do it in seconds.

And when has Wally outraced the black racer while weakened? Because Lightray has.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
- Doesn't matter, powering a star isn't particularly powerful on herald level.

This isn't powerful for a herald?

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/NewGods09-13.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/NewGods09-14.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/NewGods09-15.jpg

barker

Originally posted by batdude123
This isn't powerful for a herald?

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/NewGods09-13.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/NewGods09-14.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/NewGods09-15.jpg

barker

I'm sorry, was that the scan where he was releasing enough energy to create stars? Because that happened to be the one I was referring to. Not Lightray in general. but I guess it's easier to simply make up something to respond to, rather than responding to the actual post. And hurting Orion, wow. Way out of any herald's league.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Doesn't it take time for Superman to exceed light speed? Lightray can do it in seconds.

And when has Wally outraced the black racer while weakened? Because Lightray has.

That depends on the writer.

Why does he need to be weakened? Racer couldn't catch up to Barry and Wally when they were going slower than light-speed

Originally posted by batdude123
This isn't powerful for a herald?

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/NewGods09-13.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/NewGods09-14.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/NewGods09-15.jpg

barker

Yeah, Lightray is a BEAST when he wants to be.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Firestorm turns Hal into a saltshaker.

Superman salts team 2.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I'm sorry, was that the scan where he was releasing enough energy to create stars? Because that happened to be the one I was referring to. Not Lightray in general. but I guess it's easier to simply make up something to respond to, rather than responding to the actual post. And hurting Orion, wow. Way out of any herald's league.



That depends on the writer.

Why does he need to be weakened? Racer couldn't catch up to Barry and Wally when they were going slower than light-speed

Bad writing, maybe? If they were moving slower than the speed of light, BR should have caught them. Afterall, BR is known to easily move faster than light.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Bad writing, maybe? If they were moving slower than the speed of light, BR should have caught them. Afterall, BR is known to easily move faster than light.
Or maybe the Black Racer just isn't as fast you'd like to think he is. Your entire point here was basically "Lightray is fast, he can go around lightspeed"

Only the most die-hard Superman enthusiasts consider going lightspeed an instant victory in a herald-level match.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Or maybe the Black Racer just isn't as fast you'd like to think he is. Your entire point here was basically "Lightray is fast, he can go around lightspeed"

Only the most die-hard Superman enthusiasts consider going lightspeed an instant victory in a herald-level match.

No, he is a LOT faster than light. In Simonson's Orion, he was moving 8x faster than light to catch Orion.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
No, he is a LOT faster than light. In Simonson's Orion, he was moving 8x faster than light to catch Orion.

you must be pissed at morrison, then.

Originally posted by -Pr-
you must be pissed at morrison, then.

Final Crisis, correct? I found that to be slightly odd, because Black Racer was keeping up with Lightray, who at top speed was moving a lot faster than light.

Lightray then created a sun and BR just passed right through that.

JLA takes this 6/10

Originally posted by iceman24567
Drains him easily huh?

why not?
when Wendel had problems to drain an energy or energy based being?

Originally posted by The Nuul
Firestorm turns Quasar and Binary into salt.

Problem solved.

not with sersi there

You can also say the same thing about LR as well. Works both ways.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
You can also say the same thing about LR as well. Works both ways.

Yes it does most of them cancel each other. Quasar has easily drained suns before and has moved faster than light

Binary has feats in that level too and Starhawk is like a Quasar with precognition that exists in all realitie, etc..

it's just none of the teams is going to stomp. I say team avengers has a slight edge due to cosmic awareness and prcognition skills

Originally posted by Warlord
Yes it does most of them cancel each other. Quasar has easily drained suns before and has moved faster than light

Binary has feats in that level too and Starhawk is like a Quasar with precognition that exists in all realitie, etc..

it's just none of the teams is going to stomp. I say team avengers has a slight edge due to cosmic awareness and prcognition skills
To be fair, Team DC is faster. much faster. And they have WW's lasso. Who ever she fights is going to be taken out fast if she uses it.

yep. Many people on both lineups can drain the other. Eventually, all of them will have no powers and THATS when Orion comes in handy. He's the only one on either team that can fight. He'd cut Quasar's head off and then aim for the rest. Check mate!

Originally posted by Prep-Man
yep. Many people on both lineups can drain the other. Eventually, all of them will have no powers and THATS when Orion comes in handy. He's the only one on either team that can fight. He'd cut Quasar's head off and then aim for the rest. Check mate!



Thor can deal with him

I doubt Thor is as good of a fighter. Orion did go up against someone Gamora level. Said to be the "greatest Martial artist in the universe" or something to that. Orion nearly beat her and he was in a pacifist state. Basically weakened and not in the right mindset for battle. Thor's good, but not that good. At least I haven't seen it.

Have you seen him going H2H (unarmed) against Mjolnir wielding Loki and Fenriz?

I can list other H2H Thor's instances as well. I say he is just as good

Originally posted by Warlord
Have you seen him going H2H (unarmed) against Mjolnir wielding Loki and Fenriz?

I can list other H2H Thor's instances as well. I say he is just as good
No. Thor isn't just as good as Orion. Orion is the Dog of War. It's like his God power. with no powers, Thor would lose to Orion.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
No. Thor isn't just as good as Orion. Orion is the Dog of War. It's like his God power. with no powers, Thor would lose to Orion.


what do u mean "with no powers"?

Thor is just as good

Originally posted by Warlord
what do u mean "with no powers"?

Thor is just as good
he is not. Thor has never shown martial arts prowess. He's just a good fighter. He isn't on Orion's level when it comes to actual skill. In a match, they would stalemate if both were in character because both would just butt heads against each other.

Really?

have you read the fight I mentioned above?

Also my point is they would stalemate each other also so...

Originally posted by Warlord
Have you seen him going H2H (unarmed) against Mjolnir wielding Loki and Fenriz?

I can list other H2H Thor's instances as well. I say he is just as good

I don't agree. When has Thor gone against a top class MA? Loki isn't one of them.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
No. Thor isn't just as good as Orion. Orion is the Dog of War. It's like his God power. with no powers, Thor would lose to Orion.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I don't agree. When has Thor gone against a top class MA? Loki isn't one of them.

no But fenris is a beast and they both had the advantage of having two mjolnirs while thor was unnarmed and severely wounded

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Exactly.

what he said wasn't even an arguement. He just throwed Orions title there...

Originally posted by Warlord
no But fenris is a beast and they both had the advantage of having two mjolnirs while thor was unnarmed and severely wounded

Uhhh, not what I was looking for.

Originally posted by Warlord
what he said wasn't even an arguement. He just throwed Orions title there...

He said Thor is not in Orion's league when it comes to hth combat. Which I agreed. Orion has stated that he knows every type of warfare from across the cosmos and knows just about all forms of hth fighting. Can Thor say the same? Orion is the Dog of War for a reason.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Uhhh, not what I was looking for.

we can't have always what we're looking for.

it is a high showing of h2h combat whether you agree or not

Originally posted by Prep-Man
He said Thor is not in Orion's league when it comes to hth combat. Which I agreed. Orion has stated that he knows every type of warfare from across the cosmos and knows just about all forms of hth fighting. Can Thor say the same? Orion is the Dog of War for a reason.

I thought we've stoped going by character statements a long time ago in this site.

Orion is not like a Karate Kid or something

my point is, Thor's good, but not Orion good. That's Orion's specialy afterall.

Originally posted by Warlord
I thought we've stoped going by character statements a long time ago in this site.

Orion is not like a Karate Kid or something

No, he's actually demonstrated his skills. Like I said, facing the greatest MA in the UNIVERSE.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
my point is, Thor's good, but not Orion good. That's Orion's specialy afterall.

by that logic Marvel's Ares should also be a better fighter.

Thor has tons of h2h feats in his solo series.

Some vol. instances might convince you but I don't wanna turn this in a Thor respect thread

Originally posted by Prep-Man
No, he's actually demonstrated his skills. Like I said, facing the greatest MA in the UNIVERSE.

yet he casually gets stallemated by supes who I don't think he is the greatest MA in the Universe

Originally posted by Warlord
by that logic Marvel's Ares should also be a better fighter.

Thor has tons of h2h feats in his solo series.

Some vol. instances might convince you but I don't wanna turn this in a Thor respect thread

I'm sure he has, but no real skill to my knowledge. He has experience in battles, that's for sure, but I tip the edge to Orion.

Originally posted by Warlord
yet he casually gets stallemated by supes who I don't think he is the greatest MA in the Universe

Orion has actually casually backhanded a brainwashed Superman and has constrained him in Cosmic Odyssey. A lot better than Thor stalemating Wonder Man or Gladiator, who I don't think are good fighters.

Thor has lots of mention of "Asgardian skill" and "Godly skill" and "Warrior Prowess" which then shows him brawling in said panel so, eh...

Thor has also done a few nifty tricks with Mjolnir.

He is probably the most skillful Asgardian but how that relates to actual displays of H2H skill, I'm not sure.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I'm sure he has, but no real skill to my knowledge. He has experience in battles, that's for sure, but I tip the edge to Orion.

well IMO their styles differ.

Thor seems to be more experienced in armed fight and Mjolnir would be a factor.

On the other hand I don't deny Orion is a beast in h2h but in most books I've seen him he just relies to his enormous strength and durability rushing berserk like.

skill has many forms. Thor and Hercules fights show skill. It's just different from oriental martial arts.

IMO they are close and the thing that I've read more Thor books than you as you've read more Orion books than me lead us to diferent conclussions...

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Orion has actually casually backhanded a brainwashed Superman and has constrained him in Cosmic Odyssey. A lot better than Thor stalemating Wonder Man or Gladiator, who I don't think are good fighters.

and what about the instance they were fighting as equals with Takion and Highfather pressent

or that other fight that Orion beat him just because he used astro force

anyway...

Originally posted by Warlord
well IMO their styles differ.

Thor seems to be more experienced in armed fight and Mjolnir would be a factor.

On the other hand I don't deny Orion is a beast in h2h but in most books I've seen him he just relies to his enormous strength and durability rushing berserk like.

skill has many forms. Thor and Hercules fights show skill. It's just different from oriental martial arts.

IMO they are close and the thing that I've read more Thor books than you as you've read more Orion books than me lead us to diferent conclussions...

The thing is, Orion knows more than Oriental MA. He's the spirit of combat or such.

And I have read more Thor books than Orion's. Thor is a fav of mine. I wouldn't have said that a few years ago, so I'm constantly getting into Thor books.

Here is the example I was talking about. orion going up against his former trainer, Valkyrie. BTW, Orion doesn't have the spirit to fight and still gets the upper hand. That's how good he is.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/jkfw-07-16.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/jkfw-07-17.jpg

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/jkfw-07-18.jpg

sorry but I can't read the captions.

he did beat her but why is that a proof for his superiority or anything?

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/th_Thor135-02.jpg

i would say in terms of martial arts knowledge Orion is his superior.
Though i wouldn't necessarily give him the win in a fight because he doesn't always use his skill.