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No weapons and no powers. Just h2h melee combat. Who wins?

Wonder Woman

thor in an epic beatdown. Considerably stronger & more durable. Diana's speed & skill are massively overrated.
Thor 8/10 (she wins a couple where he holds back for chivalry reasons)

Wonder Woman 7/10

Originally posted by khazra
thor in an epic beatdown. Considerably stronger & more durable. Diana's speed & skill are massively overrated.
Thor 8/10 (she wins a couple where he holds back for chivalry reasons) how is thor considerably stronger?

Wonder Woman ***** slaps him, kicks him in the stones then tears his long golden hair out. And then later feels bad for him and gives him pity sex resulting in the birth of the ultimate hammer-wielding Middle-English speaking, golden haired Amazon that goes on to conquer both universes.
I read it in a fanfic.
No but seriously this could go either way and I can see Thor winning if he goes warrior madness on her.
I'd say a split.

Wonderful woman wins 7/10

I am not sure what "no powers" means, since there is no depowered base for either Thor or Wonder Woman. But whatever.
If they are both turned into normal humans, Thor's muscle mass is higher => he IS stronger, also on par with her in terms of experience.
So, Thor for majority.

Wonder Woman.

WW flashes Thor then drops him while he's distracted.

If not, Diana will still win if Thor underestimates her in any way. He better fight cool and smart to be last one standing.

Originally posted by khazra
thor in an epic beatdown. Considerably stronger & more durable. Diana's speed & skill are massively overrated.
Thor 8/10 (she wins a couple where he holds back for chivalry reasons)

(unless she use speedblitz )

She beat Herc's ass in JLA/Avengers in a straight up fist fight: no speedblitz, no lasso. Herc is Thor's equal most of the time.

btw, just for clarification, WW doesn't get her bracelets either in this fight

Originally posted by Omega Vision
She beat Herc's ass in JLA/Avengers in a straight up fist fight: no speedblitz, no lasso. Herc is Thor's equal most of the time.

She will beat Thor, but let's not use non-cannon shit.

Originally posted by galactusischere
She will beat Thor, but let's not use non-cannon shit.
JLA/Avengers is canon, at least to DC it is. Marvel hasn't acknowledged it but they haven't refuted it either.

It can't be used on this forum, though.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
JLA/Avengers is canon, at least to DC it is. Marvel hasn't acknowledged it but they haven't refuted it either.
Only because of Supes beating Thor and Krona beating Galactus.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Only because of Supes beating Thor and Krona beating Galactus.
Krona wasn't PIS, he had the power of several universes in him after destroying them.
And as for Thor its his fault for trying to slug it out instead of using magic.

WW 6-7/10

Ok, i'll explain:
Thor has far more impresive strength feats (on average).

Thor has for more impressive durability feats (on average).

Thor has better speed feats, of which diana only really has one good one which is PIS at its worst when placed next to her other speedfeats (zoom fight).

Neither of them are nearly as skilled as people would have you believe.

Diana has basically zero wins against other top tiers. Her best showings are against a daxamite who was freshly under a yellow sun (supes beat 3) & a white martian who have at other times beaten her solo.

Diana is below the accepted top tier bracket. She is as close to thor as the Thing is to her in a brawl. She can put up a good fight but she wont be in too much danger of winning.

Originally posted by khazra

Thor has better speed feats ok ima have to disagree with dat one. Wondy HAS superspeed (like Supe)

whats Thors best speed feat? (not reflex feats! i mean real speed feats)

D.C. fanboy's crack me up. The GOD of thunder 9/10! Right now.

umn reflexes = combat speed = the speed that actually matters in a fight.

Adam warlock has stated he's faster than the lightening he controls and he's either swung or thrown mjolnir at 4x SoL before if i remember correctly.


But the point isnt really hwos faster, its that there speed is comparable. Wonderwoman & thor have both been tagged by characters in the enhanced human range. They'll trade blows, neither is hitting the other one before they react or anythign liek that.

Originally posted by khazra
Ok, i'll explain:
Thor has far more impresive strength feats (on average).

Thor has for more impressive durability feats (on average).

Thor has better speed feats, of which diana only really has one good one which is PIS at its worst when placed next to her other speedfeats (zoom fight).

Neither of them are nearly as skilled as people would have you believe.

Diana has basically zero wins against other top tiers. Her best showings are against a daxamite who was freshly under a yellow sun (supes beat 3) & a white martian who have at other times beaten her solo.

Diana is below the accepted top tier bracket. She is as close to thor as the Thing is to her in a brawl. She can put up a good fight but she wont be in too much danger of winning.

Are you saying that Ben can put up a fight against Diana? Because she can probably one-shot him without being hit once. Terrible analogy.

Thor has the physical advantage, but I believe Diana to be THAT much better of a fighter.

Diana 6/10

Originally posted by Konton
Are you saying that Ben can put up a fight against Diana? Because she can probably one-shot him without being hit once. Terrible analogy.

Thor has the physical advantage, but I believe Diana to be THAT much better of a fighter.

Diana 6/10
in a brawl diana would have a hell of a time with ben.

Diana is one of the most vastly overrated characters in general & at hand to hand.

Originally posted by khazra
in a brawl diana would have a hell of a time with ben.

crylaugh

i like teh thought you put into that argument....

She's definitely closer to ben in terms of brawling than the elite top tiers. Show me her strength feats that put her over ben? Show me her durability feats?

Diana has shown herself to be well below superman level.
Her best feat is not being killed by superman in sacrafice when she had 1 sided prep...

Originally posted by khazra
Show me her strength feats that put her over ben?

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/22/11/59/1228228_608x949.jpg

Props to fangirl101.

Originally posted by khazra
i like teh thought you put into that argument....

She's definitely closer to ben in terms of brawling than the elite top tiers. Show me her strength feats that put her over ben? Show me her durability feats?

Diana has shown herself to be well below superman level.
Her best feat is not being killed by superman in sacrafice when she had 1 sided prep...

No f*cking way.

Diana is barely below Superman.
She's done shit Ben couldn't even think about doing.

She's helped lift the Spectre's body.
She's helped tow the moon.
She rips apart gods and regularly stomps Gigantia.
She's helped hold the earth in orbit.
She breaks GL constructs like they're nothing.
She's knocked the wind out of Konvict.
She's outmuscled Supergirl without even trying.
She consistently has shown the ability to damage Superman.

I could go on. What's ben done? Lift a few cars here and there?

Which is why he effortlessly snapped her wrist when she had one sided prep? WHy he knocked her out of space into the gorund in 1 hit?


lol i could do those with enough help though? there not feats..


Amazon's? Not beyond class 50.
Barda? Light class 100.
Gigantia? Please, she has no feats. She got beat by Dc herc who is also basically featless.


depends on the GL and how serious they are etc. Theyve been smashed by less.



was trinity even in continuity? it didnt seem to be...


Who isnt superman level either. Shes geting their but shes not there.


Minorly, with 1 sided prep.

Wonderwoman is a low class 100. nothing she has ever done suggests otherwise. She has nothing coming close to thor lifting the midgard serpent strengthwise.

Im not saying ben grimm could take her in a brawl BTW. Im saying that the fights would take a while for her to win.

Its always sad when fanboys pick weak characters to wank. Thing can't touch Wonder Woman, if anything Diana is the most under-rated character since people never seem to understand how fast or strong she is.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Its always sad when fanboys pick weak characters to wank.



not thinking of the same guy but your point is good

Thor wins after a good fight. But the Thing is not even in WWs class.

Wait, you think Barda is "light" class 100? Get a clue kid.

Diana has fought with Superman many times, a few when he was bloodlusted and she was just trying to get him to gtfo and she STILL held her own. Quit referencing one fight.

She would literally beat Ben blindfolded with one arm tied behind her back.

No, with two arms tied. It would go like Mr X vs Headsman fight. And that's being generous.

for the last time, my point is that thor is as far out of diana's class as she is out of thing's.

Thor vs diana goes the same as diana vs thing in brawls.
The second person in each fights well and can makes the battles last but wont be winning.

Originally posted by khazra
for the last time, my point is that thor is as far out of diana's class as she is out of thing's.

Thor vs diana goes the same as diana vs thing in brawls.
The second person in each fights well and can makes the battles last but wont be winning.

thor doesnt beat her in a h2h in my opinion. in an all out fight with all of thors tricks he beats her. But strict hand to hand diana in a slight majority i believe. diana would own the thing. It wouldnt last long at all. it wouldnt even be slightly difficult for her.

Diana oughta take this one home. It's a long and hard battle, but I don't see Thor getting in any wins.

Still no-one has put forward any feats that put her on thor's physical level? or close to it?

i just dont get where she's picking up the wins?

Originally posted by khazra
for the last time, my point is that thor is as far out of diana's class as she is out of thing's.

Thor vs diana goes the same as diana vs thing in brawls.
The second person in each fights well and can makes the battles last but wont be winning.

In order for what you are saying to be true, Thor would have to be WAAAAY out of Diana's league in strength, durability, speed, and hand to hand combat prowess.

They are comparable in all fields, except hand to hand in which Diana dominates. Thor's main advantage over characters like Wonder Woman and Superman is his raw energy output and magic.

Thor wins.

Better strength and durability feats.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Diana oughta take this one home. It's a long and hard battle, but I don't see Thor getting in any wins.

pretty much this though i can see getting a couple wins.

Originally posted by Konton
In order for what you are saying to be true, Thor would have to be WAAAAY out of Diana's league in strength, durability, speed, and hand to hand combat prowess.

They are comparable in all fields, except hand to hand in which Diana dominates. Thor's main advantage over characters like Wonder Woman and Superman is his raw energy output and magic.
Your doing it again. Your grouping diana with supes like thier on the same level, something repeatedly dhown to not be true in anything but hyperbole in character dialogue.

I completely agree that supes has thor's number in a brawl or indeed a basic in character fight. But he wouldnt snap thor's wrist like a twig.The fight wouldnt be completely one sided.

WOnderwoman has no place fighting a thor/superman/majestic level opponent, period.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Wonder Woman ***** slaps him, kicks him in the stones then tears his long golden hair out. And then later feels bad for him and gives him pity sex resulting in the birth of the ultimate hammer-wielding Middle-English speaking, golden haired Amazon that goes on to conquer both universes.
.................

Originally posted by khazra
Ok, i'll explain:
Thor has far more impresive strength feats (on average).

Thor has for more impressive durability feats (on average).

Thor has better speed feats, of which diana only really has one good one which is PIS at its worst when placed next to her other speedfeats (zoom fight).

Neither of them are nearly as skilled as people would have you believe.

Diana has basically zero wins against other top tiers. Her best showings are against a daxamite who was freshly under a yellow sun (supes beat 3) & a white martian who have at other times beaten her solo.

Diana is below the accepted top tier bracket. She is as close to thor as the Thing is to her in a brawl. She can put up a good fight but she wont be in too much danger of winning.
Neither have powers in this thread. Even if what you were saying were true, how their super strength compares really isn't relevant.

Sorry i was under the impression it meant no powers beyond the physical hence h2h slugfest.

If its depowered than it atleast partially depends on what happens to thor's physical mass? does he still wiegh 600 lbs?

Originally posted by khazra
in a brawl diana would have a hell of a time with ben.

Diana is one of the most vastly overrated characters in general & at hand to hand. Wonder Woman would wreck the Thing in any kinda fight

Toss up. Diana has actually fought an enraged Daxamite. This is her kinda fight.

Originally posted by khazra
Your doing it again. Your grouping diana with supes like thier on the same level, something repeatedly dhown to not be true in anything but hyperbole in character dialogue.

I completely agree that supes has thor's number in a brawl or indeed a basic in character fight. But he wouldnt snap thor's wrist like a twig.The fight wouldnt be completely one sided.

WOnderwoman has no place fighting a thor/superman/majestic level opponent, period.

so you think it's pure hyperbole that she has matched captain marvel as well? or you think that CM isn't in superman and thor's league either?? she has also defeated dc's hercules (whose strength CM possessed). diana is REGULARLY depicted as being very close to superman and captain marvel though perhaps not QUITE on their level. her speed and skill and flight give her a distinct advantage in this fight though.

but i'm bored so i'll humor you. what are these massive advantages you see? show us the feats that make you think thor is soooooo far out of diana's league. post the strength feats that are>>>>diana's. post the speed and durability feats that are>>>>diana, and show me his great skill feats that clearly show he is that much better a combatant than diana.

you keep calling for feats from everyone, but, YOU'RE the one saying thor is WAYYYY out of diana's league. so, how bout you stop calling people out and start PROVING your point. then i'll be more than happy to discuss it with you.

no powers guys.

that either means thor is still 640 lbs of asgardian god who can still lift X amount of weight (his natural born physiology) but can't use any of his powers, against wonder woman whom is under the same stipulations.

or

we assume they are the human equivalent of their selves only relying on their experience in combat and their now far lesser physical abilities.

if it's scenario one, thor is not helpless as some are insinuating, far from it in fact.

scenario two thor pretty much loses since his asgardian physique is his main asset, he'd be shocked that he's been reduced to a mere mortal and diana would eventually put him down every time.

You guys keep saying these things & doing your clever smiles.... but your yet to show diana doing anything that puts her on the true top tier level.

She is not comparable to Superman, WWH, Black Adam, Thor, Beta Ray Bill...thats even when fully garbed! Superman has totally no goed her twice now. The less competent but as powerful bizzaro wrecked her in 2 pages,


She wouldnt wreck ben in a brawl but yes she would win.

Her best solo strength feat is holding up a bridge with her lassoe & flight momentum. Thor's is 1000s of times that (and he lifts, which is harder than holding & has no flight momentum on his side)
Shes had close fights with cheetah whos class 30 at best.
Shes been hospitalised by bullets.
Shes been beat by clayface.
Shes been no-goed by J'onn.
Shes been no-goed by supes atleast twice.
Shes been wrecked by bizzaro.
Shes been embarassed by wally twice.
Shes been Ko'd by hawkman
Shes been stalemated by jazz hand orin twice.



Superman fought 3

Originally posted by khazra
You guys keep saying these things & doing your clever smiles.... but your yet to show diana doing anything that puts her on the true top tier level.

She is not comparable to Superman, WWH, Black Adam, Thor, Beta Ray Bill...thats even when fully garbed! Superman has totally no goed her twice now. The less competent but as powerful bizzaro wrecked her in 2 pages,


She wouldnt wreck ben in a brawl but yes she would win.

Her best solo strength feat is holding up a bridge with her lassoe & flight momentum. Thor's is 1000s of times that (and he lifts, which is harder than holding & has no flight momentum on his side)
Shes had close fights with cheetah whos class 30 at best.
Shes been hospitalised by bullets.
Shes been beat by clayface.
Shes been no-goed by J'onn.
Shes been no-goed by supes atleast twice.
Shes been wrecked by bizzaro.
Shes been embarassed by wally twice.
Shes been Ko'd by hawkman
Shes been stalemated by jazz hand orin twice. So her low feats are only taken into account she shaked off being knocked from space to earth numerous times. Nukes don't even tickle her and you try to use bullets affecting her sometime in her past as proof of something . Cheetah has superhuman speed with that class 30 strength along with magical claws. She would wreck Ben in a brawl better fighter, better durability feats, better strength feats, better speed ect i could go on for eons.

seriously, wonder woman would kick the shit out of the thing. wtf is his name being brought up for?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
seriously, wonder woman would kick the shit out of the thing. wtf is his name being brought up for? I have no clue

Originally posted by khazra
You guys keep saying these things & doing your clever smiles.... but your yet to show diana doing anything that puts her on the true top tier level.

She is not comparable to Superman, WWH, Black Adam, Thor, Beta Ray Bill...thats even when fully garbed! Superman has totally no goed her twice now. The less competent but as powerful bizzaro wrecked her in 2 pages,


She wouldnt wreck ben in a brawl but yes she would win.

Her best solo strength feat is holding up a bridge with her lassoe & flight momentum. Thor's is 1000s of times that (and he lifts, which is harder than holding & has no flight momentum on his side)
Shes had close fights with cheetah whos class 30 at best.
Shes been hospitalised by bullets.
Shes been beat by clayface.
Shes been no-goed by J'onn.
Shes been no-goed by supes atleast twice.
Shes been wrecked by bizzaro.
Shes been embarassed by wally twice.
Shes been Ko'd by hawkman
Shes been stalemated by jazz hand orin twice.



Superman fought 3

Diana has lifted Themscyra with one hand.

Originally posted by khazra
You guys keep saying these things & doing your clever smiles.... but your yet to show diana doing anything that puts her on the true top tier level.

She is not comparable to Superman, WWH, Black Adam, Thor, Beta Ray Bill...thats even when fully garbed! Superman has totally no goed her twice now. The less competent but as powerful bizzaro wrecked her in 2 pages,


She wouldnt wreck ben in a brawl but yes she would win.

Her best solo strength feat is holding up a bridge with her lassoe & flight momentum. Thor's is 1000s of times that (and he lifts, which is harder than holding & has no flight momentum on his side)
Shes had close fights with cheetah whos class 30 at best.
Shes been hospitalised by bullets.
Shes been beat by clayface.
Shes been no-goed by J'onn.
Shes been no-goed by supes atleast twice.
Shes been wrecked by bizzaro.
Shes been embarassed by wally twice.
Shes been Ko'd by hawkman
Shes been stalemated by jazz hand orin twice.



Superman fought 3

You completely ignored what was asked of you. Prove Thor is >>>>> Diana with evidence. Thor has low showings too you know.

See, you don't judge a character based on their low end feats. Especially when they are dwarfed by the (consistent) high end feats.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Diana has lifted Themscyra with one hand.

This too. lol

Never seen that before

I didnt ignore what i was asked, i started typing before you asked for thor feats. I apologise.
I'd love to see the lifting themscyra feat, never heard of it?

Some thor feats:
1 shot abomination
countless hulk fights (hulk dwarfs diana in strength)
lifting the world engine
lifting the midgard serpent (stated to weigh as much as the earth)
fighting hercules as a physical equal who has lifted the planet & the sky (as of recent retcons making greek mythology cannon)
Ko'd surfer
Fought even with dumb drax (when neither had the PG)

Taken multiple shots from mangog, surtur, the celestials & the destroyer and kept trucking. Thats more durability than she can dream of.

ill give more if you require them

Other than the bullet and hawkman, those are more or less diana's normal level. She should beat orin for a majority too, but him winning some is alright.

This happened pre-crisis. She also lassoed the moon and towed it.

pre-crisis diana is effectively a different character. It thereby has no bearing on any new earth wonderwoman fight.

ah, well, you weren't specific, so I just listed any top feats from Diana, which were above Thor's.

Wasn't Wonder Woman the only major DC character not to be nerfed by the crisis?

Not that i was aware of.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Wasn't Wonder Woman the only major DC character not to be nerfed by the crisis?

Source?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
This happened pre-crisis. She also lassoed the moon and towed it.

That's not as impressive as throwing the midgard serpent. Not by a long shot.

Originally posted by Konton
Source?
No I was just asking because it doesn't seem like her PC feats were much different from what she does now, unlike Superman.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
That's not as impressive as throwing the midgard serpent. Not by a long shot.

The thing is, she towed the moon and carried it around like it was a toy. She was comparable to pre-crisis superman and has even stalemated him before. Thor won't be doing that.

Plus she lifed her island with ONE hand. effortsly.

Wonder Woman.

Let's not forget the serpent could easily be hyperbole.

Originally posted by Konton
Let's not forget the serpent could easily be hyperbole.
to an extant but it is atleast as big as the planet, its literall coiled around earth and he pulls it off.

silverage feats have nothing to do with this matchup, so how easily she towed the monn isnt relevant. Earth 1, earth 2 and new earth wonderwoman are all diferent characters. There feats are no more interchngable than Connor's and superboy prime's.

Thor is a good fisherman.

Snakes don't weigh much.

It's all in the wrist.

Originally posted by khazra
Ok, i'll explain:
Thor has far more impresive strength feats (on average).

Thor has for more impressive durability feats (on average).

Thor has better speed feats, of which diana only really has one good one which is PIS at its worst when placed next to her other speedfeats (zoom fight).

Neither of them are nearly as skilled as people would have you believe.

Diana has basically zero wins against other top tiers. Her best showings are against a daxamite who was freshly under a yellow sun (supes beat 3) & a white martian who have at other times beaten her solo.

Diana is below the accepted top tier bracket. She is as close to thor as the Thing is to her in a brawl. She can put up a good fight but she wont be in too much danger of winning.
This is all wrong. All of it. Every single word.

Wonderwoman beats the crap out of Thor 9/10

Originally posted by khazra
You guys keep saying these things & doing your clever smiles.... but your yet to show diana doing anything that puts her on the true top tier level.

She is not comparable to Superman, WWH, Black Adam, Thor, Beta Ray Bill...thats even when fully garbed! Superman has totally no goed her twice now. The less competent but as powerful bizzaro wrecked her in 2 pages,


She wouldnt wreck ben in a brawl but yes she would win.

Her best solo strength feat is holding up a bridge with her lassoe & flight momentum. Thor's is 1000s of times that (and he lifts, which is harder than holding & has no flight momentum on his side)
Shes had close fights with cheetah whos class 30 at best.
Shes been hospitalised by bullets.
Shes been beat by clayface.
Shes been no-goed by J'onn.
Shes been no-goed by supes atleast twice.
Shes been wrecked by bizzaro.
Shes been embarassed by wally twice.
Shes been Ko'd by hawkman
Shes been stalemated by jazz hand orin twice.



Superman fought 3
Actually Diana has Shoulder'd Paradise Island for Herakles. This is Post crisis. She's carried away an asteroid that would have destroyed the planet, without breaking a sweat.

Wonder Woman has close fights with Cheetah because Cheetah has been trained by zoom to be faster and she has magical claws that can go thru nearly any substance. Imagine wolverine with near light speed. yeah.

She was wrecked by bizarro in an else worlds tale.

Thor was knocked out by a bullet before. So don't bring up bullets.

Diana has one shotted the indestructible Captain Atom.
She's beaten an enraged Daxamite (Before Her strength upgrade)
She's beaten angels, a white martian, and handed Super Woman her ass.

Wonder Woman would beat Pretty much any top tiers ass if they weren't allowed to use any fancy powers. And with her blunt force durability, ( She's taken Shots from Zeus, Doomsday, Super clone Doomsday, Genocide, Superman, Captain Marvel, Oblivion, etc) She won't go down in a hand to hand fight easily if at all.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Actually Diana has Shoulder'd Paradise Island for Herakles. This is Post crisis. She's carried away an asteroid that would have destroyed the planet, without breaking a sweat.

Wonder Woman has close fights with Cheetah because Cheetah has been trained by zoom to be faster and she has magical claws that can go thru nearly any substance. Imagine wolverine with near light speed. yeah.

She was wrecked by bizarro in an else worlds tale.

Thor was knocked out by a bullet before. So don't bring up bullets.

Diana has one shotted the indestructible Captain Atom.
She's beaten an enraged Daxamite (Before Her strength upgrade)
She's beaten angels, a white martian, and handed Super Woman her ass.

Wonder Woman would beat Pretty much any top tiers ass if they weren't allowed to use any fancy powers. And with her blunt force durability, ( She's taken Shots from Zeus, Doomsday, Super clone Doomsday, Genocide, Superman, Captain Marvel, Oblivion, etc) She won't go down in a hand to hand fight easily if at all.

Nvr?

Originally posted by batdude123
Nvr?
I"m not lying. She did all that stuff.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I"m not lying. She did all that stuff.

Was a joke.

Damn I give this to WW 6/10. Reason is even without any powers sshe's still a better fighter then both Batman and Captain America. While Thor may be slightly stronger then WW, she makes up for it in the speed, and shes a better fighter.

Originally posted by khazra
in a brawl diana would have a hell of a time with ben.

Diana is one of the most vastly overrated characters in general & at hand to hand.


omg

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Actually Diana has Shoulder'd Paradise Island for Herakles. This is Post crisis. She's carried away an asteroid that would have destroyed the planet, without breaking a sweat.

Wonder Woman has close fights with Cheetah because Cheetah has been trained by zoom to be faster and she has magical claws that can go thru nearly any substance. Imagine wolverine with near light speed. yeah.

She was wrecked by bizarro in an else worlds tale.

Thor was knocked out by a bullet before. So don't bring up bullets.

Diana has one shotted the indestructible Captain Atom.
She's beaten an enraged Daxamite (Before Her strength upgrade)
She's beaten angels, a white martian, and handed Super Woman her ass.

Wonder Woman would beat Pretty much any top tiers ass if they weren't allowed to use any fancy powers. And with her blunt force durability, ( She's taken Shots from Zeus, Doomsday, Super clone Doomsday, Genocide, Superman, Captain Marvel, Oblivion, etc) She won't go down in a hand to hand fight easily if at all.

The best feats here are the white martian, daxamite and Cap atom. None are thor level physically. J'onn has beat 2-3 white martians at once (forget which). Superman has beat 3 daxamites at once. Cap atom isnt superman level physically except for in worldstorm with the void (and even that is debatable), hell he's not J'onn level.

Wonderwoman has already shown that she wont "beat pretty much any top tiers ass if they werent allowed to use any fancy powers". Fight's with J'onn and superman have shown her to be well below their level, hell i think J'onn 1 shot her.

Oh and are you trying to saying taking a ht from any of those is like taking hits from surtur or celestials???

Originally posted by khazra
The best feats here are the white martian, daxamite and Cap atom. None are thor level physically. J'onn has beat 2-3 white martians at once (forget which). Superman has beat 3 daxamites at once. Cap atom isnt superman level physically except for in worldstorm with the void (and even that is debatable), hell he's not J'onn level.

Wonderwoman has already shown that she wont "beat pretty much any top tiers ass if they werent allowed to use any fancy powers". Fight's with J'onn and superman have shown her to be well below their level, hell i think J'onn 1 shot her.

Oh and are you trying to saying taking a ht from any of those is like taking hits from surtur or celestials???

iirc, superman only beat the daxamites when they were posioned by lead.

still think superman > her, though.

WW for the majority

Originally posted by khazra

Oh and are you trying to saying taking a ht from any of those is like taking hits from surtur or celestials???

Don't you know Superman is celestial level?

Originally posted by khazra
The best feats here are the white martian, daxamite and Cap atom. None are thor level physically. J'onn has beat 2-3 white martians at once (forget which). Superman has beat 3 daxamites at once. Cap atom isnt superman level physically except for in worldstorm with the void (and even that is debatable), hell he's not J'onn level.

Wonderwoman has already shown that she wont "beat pretty much any top tiers ass if they werent allowed to use any fancy powers". Fight's with J'onn and superman have shown her to be well below their level, hell i think J'onn 1 shot her.

Oh and are you trying to saying taking a ht from any of those is like taking hits from surtur or celestials???
Are you kidding me? MM beat Martian's because his TP powers are superior to the others when he's ready. Superman has never beat 3 Daxamites without them being poisoned. Cap Atom's durability is what is not in question. His skin is indestructible. And she one shotted him. You also forget that before she got her upgrades, she was stalemating Captain Marvel. Oh and Superman is stronger than every other Top tier. So don't act like him being stronger than Wonder Woman has anything to do with it. Strength does not always equate into striking power. Brude Lee could hit harder than the worlds strongest man.

Superman probably hits harder than Diana too, though, in all fairness.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman probably hits harder than Diana too, though, in all fairness.
If he's flying sure. Not just standing there.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
If he's flying sure. Not just standing there. even standing, he still punches harder. he's stronger.

Originally posted by Starscream M
even standing, he still punches harder. he's stronger.
Not by much.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
If he's flying sure. Not just standing there.

i disagree.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i disagree.

x10

Originally posted by -Pr-
i disagree.
To say he hits harder than her or that much harder than her would mean Superman is an idiot who cannot fight well. If he's that much stronger than her, and hits that much harder, he should never have any problems completely just dominating her without use of Heat vision, Superbreath, speed, etc. He has to use all of his powers at optimal levels to get the better of her.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
To say he hits harder than her or that much harder than her would mean Superman is an idiot who cannot fight well. If he's that much stronger than her, and hits that much harder, he should never have any problems completely just dominating her without use of Heat vision, Superbreath, speed, etc. He has to use all of his powers at optimal levels to get the better of her. or it could be just because of the nature of comics...

superman (and many heroes ie thor, surfer) often 'struggle' with beings that they should have ease defeating

Originally posted by Starscream M
or it could be just because of the nature of comics...

superman (and many heroes ie thor, surfer) often 'struggle' with beings that they should have ease defeating
No. It could be because that is just fact. If he were that much more powerful than her, she wouldn't be able to put up any kind of fight.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
No. It could be because that is just fact. If he were that much more powerful than her, she wouldn't be able to put up any kind of fight. yet how many people put up a fight against flash even though they should be statues to him?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
To say he hits harder than her or that much harder than her would mean Superman is an idiot who cannot fight well. If he's that much stronger than her, and hits that much harder, he should never have any problems completely just dominating her without use of Heat vision, Superbreath, speed, etc. He has to use all of his powers at optimal levels to get the better of her.

if you think he's an idiot that can't fight well, then you don't know Superman comics.

and he's manhandled her before without having to use any of his other powers.

Originally posted by Starscream M
yet how many people put up a fight against flash even though they should be statues to him?
No one ever puts up a fight against flash when the time calls for it. When ever Superman has to take down a big gun, it's always Wonder Woman that's with him in the fight. Against General Eiling, Konvict, etc. If he were dwarfing her in power like you would like, he wouldn't need her. You don't see Batman helping him against Threats like that.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
You don't see Batman helping him against Threats like that. no I don't...except every issue of Batman/Superman. jeez.

Clark could snap her neck. Easy.

Originally posted by Starscream M
no I don't...except every issue of Batman/Superman. jeez.
LOL. No you don't. In Superman/Batman, Batman has prep, he isn't fighting Konvict level Bad guys with Superman.

Originally posted by Spire
Clark could snap her neck. Easy.
Show me. She's been punched all the way from outspace by Superman and her kneck didn't snap. That much force should have caved her head in like a pumpkin being ran over by a truck. If she, were as weak to Superman as you are saying.

Instead of grabbing her and flying to the sun, he grabs her and snaps her neck as he did her wrist.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Show me. its harder to snap someones wrist than their neck.

Originally posted by Spire
Instead of grabbing her and flying to the sun, he grabs her and snaps her neck as he did her wrist.
It's pretty easy to snap someone's wrist. Even if they are stronger than you. If they aren't trying to fight you.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
It's pretty easy to snap someone's wrist. Even if they are stronger than you. If they aren't trying to fight you. so you're saying WW let him snap her wrist? you're ridiculous

Originally posted by Starscream M
so you're saying WW let him snap her wrist? you're ridiculous
I'm saying she was trying to calm him down and stop his mad rampage. Are you saying that when she knocked the wind out of Konvict with that same wrist, it should have snapped? You are ridiculous.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
It's pretty easy to snap someone's wrist. Even if they are stronger than you. If they aren't trying to fight you.

He broke her wrist as a grown man would an infant's.

Originally posted by Starscream M
no I don't...except every issue of Batman/Superman. jeez.

that was actually nice. kudos.

Originally posted by -Pr-
that was actually nice. kudos. I didn't think so. Batman didn't help Superman fight Despero. Batman is always on the side using his brain while Superman is the Brawn.

Originally posted by Spire
He broke her wrist as a grown man would an infant's.
He didn't. He was also amped by the sun. He even said so in JLA once that flying close to the sun is all he needs for an amp. Beat the whole JLA without even sun dipping. Just being nearer the sun.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I'm saying she was trying to calm him down and stop his mad rampage. Are you saying that when she knocked the wind out of Konvict with that same wrist, it should have snapped? You are ridiculous.

Horrible logic.

It's pretty simple. His strength > her durability.

Fighting, not fighting, being happy, sad, nervous, etc.

Doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I didn't think so. Batman didn't help Superman fight Despero. Batman is always on the side using his brain while Superman is the Brawn.

and yet in that comic, Batman has taken on the likes of Metallo, Major Force, Black Lightning, Superman himself, a weird analogue of the Avengers, etc etc.

He doesn't use prep for every fight, and while Diana does help out pretty often, i think it's silly to suggest that she's the only person he looks to for help (assuming he needs it).

Originally posted by Zeuodin
He didn't. He was also amped by the sun. He even said so in JLA once that flying close to the sun is all he needs for an amp. Beat the whole JLA without even sun dipping. Just being nearer the sun.

So being in space is an amp now?

Originally posted by Spire
Horrible logic.

It's pretty simple. His strength > her durability.

Fighting, not fighting, being happy, sad, nervous, etc.

Doesn't matter.

Why didn't her head cave in when he sun amped punched her to the earth? You have no answer. The logic is sound. If her wrist were as puddy like you pretend, it should have snapped when she punched Konvict. The same guy who knocked Superman out and with stood Superman's punches.

Originally posted by -Pr-
and yet in that comic, Batman has taken on the likes of Metallo, Major Force, Black Lightning, Superman himself, a weird analogue of the Avengers, etc etc.

He doesn't use prep for every fight, and while Diana does help out pretty often, i think it's silly to suggest that she's the only person he looks to for help (assuming he needs it).
Except I read comics. Batman is the prep master. He's the one who comes up with all those fancy plans for the JLA. It's him who's telling Superman and Diana to take out the big physical threats. He's the one ( Along with MM) Who come up with those battle strats. They even talk about their practice when they fight Amazo. Also, batman has prep for everything conventional. He wasn't prepped for Konvict because he'd never heard of him, so yeah, The fall back plan is for Wonder Woman to help Superman with the major physical threads.

IMHO WW 45%-55% Superman, with her h2h skills maybe 50-50.
But this is not what this thread is about. WW's h2h skills are superior to Thors, who in his own right is pretty good.
Because i feel generous:
Strength Thor >= WW
Combat Speed Thor < WW
Durability (invulnerability) Thor = WW
h2h skills Thor < WW

all in all, Thor 30-70 WW.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Why didn't her head cave in when he sun amped punched her to the earth? You have no answer. The logic is sound. If her wrist were as puddy like you pretend, it should have snapped when she punched Konvict. The same guy who knocked Superman out and with stood Superman's punches.

When he applied force, her wrist snapped.

What don't you understand?

Originally posted by Spire
When he applied force, her wrist snapped.

What don't you understand?
So you are saying his enraged punch didn't have any force behind it? Are you saying He doesn't hit hard?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Show me. She's been punched all the way from outspace by Superman and her kneck didn't snap. That much force should have caved her head in like a pumpkin being ran over by a truck. If she, were as weak to Superman as you are saying.
Superman thought she was doomsday and flat out stated he was trying to torture her, not kill her. That wasnt an all out superman & he totally no-goed her with only his stats when she was geared up.
Even when she came up behind him and attacked he turned around and took it to her ebfore she had a chance. She hit him once and that was by using an attack doomsday didnt have, thereby cathching him off guard. Even that didnt slow him down


Superman has moved a ship 16x the size of earth post crisis, there strength is so incomparable its not funny.... Even aquaman's best lifting feat is better than her's!

Having unbreakable skin doesnt stop you being KO'd, didnt firestorm Ko nathan with a giant baseball bat or something stupid? Or do you think Luke cage is unko-able. Im sure MM has taken it to captain atom physically too.

almost all of wonderwoman's feats have holes in them eg...
Daxamites arent nearly as powerful on first contact with sun (case in point they still werent sinestro corps level solo after just being hit byt a yeelow sun, they needed the number.)
Captain Marvel holds back more than basically any character that exists.
When WW fought supergirl, supergirl was a rookie with no trianing who'd recently split in two & wonderwoman was still wowed by her strength. Today's more competent Kara > Power girl & PG's record on diana is 1 win 1 draw.

Edit> Diana even had kryptonite in sacrafice and still lost horribly lol

Originally posted by Spire
When he applied force, her wrist snapped.

What don't you understand?

To be fair, she could do the same to him.

Originally posted by khazra
Superman thought she was doomsday and flat out stated he was trying to torture her, not kill her. That wasnt an all out superman & he totally no-goed her with only his stats when she was geared up.
Even when she came up behind him and attacked he turned around and took it to her ebfore she had a chance. She hit him once and that was by using an attack doomsday didnt have, thereby cathching him off guard. Even that didnt slow him down


Superman has moved a ship 16x the size of earth post crisis, there strength is so incomparable its not funny.... Even aquaman's best lifting feat is better than her's!

Having unbreakable skin doesnt stop you being KO'd, didnt firestorm Ko nathan with a giant baseball bat or something stupid? Or do you think Luke cage is unko-able. Im sure MM has taken it to captain atom physically too.

almost all of wonderwoman's feats have holes in them eg...
Daxamites arent nearly as powerful on first contact with sun (case in point they still werent sinestro corps level solo after just being hit byt a yeelow sun, they needed the number.)
Captain Marvel holds back more than basically any character that exists.
When WW fought supergirl, supergirl was a rookie with no trianing who'd recently split in two & wonderwoman was still wowed by her strength. Today's more competent Kara > Power girl & PG's record on diana is 1 win 1 draw.

You should pay attention to comics more my freind. You wouldn't look so bad when debating. WW bitched Black Mary who gave Supergirl a stalemated fight. Hence WW>>Supergirl.

Superman also knows that Doomsday's invulnerability is nearly next to none. So he would have to put all of his power into Trying to Hurt DD.

So now you are saying Aquanman has lifted a planet destroying Asteroid and carried it away while not breaking a sweat? Show me the scans.

You are saying WW didn't slow Superman down? That is exactly what she did. That was the point of the story. Slow him down and hold back as not to really hurt him until she could get to Max. Superman's goals and Diana's goals were totally different in the arc.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
So you are saying his enraged punch didn't have any force behind it? Are you saying He doesn't hit hard?

Sidestepping.

I'm talking about her wrist being snapped.

Originally posted by Spire
Sidestepping.

I'm talking about her wrist being snapped.
He snapped her wrist with leverage. A kid can snap a grown man's wrist with the right leverage. They teach you that basic stuff in physics and in martial arts classes.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
He snapped her wrist with leverage. A kid can snap a grown man's wrist with the right leverage. They teach you that basic stuff in physics and in martial arts classes.

Lawl @ speculation and downplaying.

His strength > her durability.

Originally posted by Spire
Lawl @ speculation and downplaying.

His strength > her durability.
Lawl at you not coming up with an answer to why his punch didn't cave her head in.

H2H, this fight could go on for days.
Diana may even have a slight edge as a grappler, just as Hercules does.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Lawl at you not coming up with an answer to why his punch didn't cave her head in.

When did I need to?

We know he snapped her wrist as a grown man would an infant's.

Wonder Woman has comparable strength and is faster than Thor.

WW take this fight, but not in a stomp

Wha? He had no leverage, he used technique. He simply caught her incoming arm & snapped with no discernible effort.
Wonderwoman has flat out admitted she cant beat superman and he's proven it atleast twice...and she had one sided prep there too.

Originally posted by khazra
Wha? He had no leverage, he used technique. He simply caught her incoming arm & snapped with no discernible effort.
Wonderwoman has flat out admitted she cant beat superman and he's proven it atleast twice...and she had one sided prep there too.
Prep? What prep? Kryptonite? Leverage is the angle by which you can gain the upper hand. WW who cannot lie, has said Zoom hits harder than Superman, and she took his punches without breaking so much as one bone.

Originally posted by khazra
Wha? He had no leverage, he used technique. He simply caught her incoming arm & snapped with no discernible effort.
Wonderwoman has flat out admitted she cant beat superman and he's proven it atleast twice...and she had one sided prep there too.

She was holding back, the whole time, which is very hard against someone like Superman. He gave everything and she survived, holding back, not wanting to hurt him.
Though when she became serious, Supes started bleeding, she could have killed him with her tiara .

Please people, stop talking like they would have had an actual fight, or like they were both going all out. Supes was serious, he was in for the kill, she defended herself, nothing more. Read the damn comic before posting.

Originally posted by Spire
When did I need to?

We know he snapped her wrist as a grown man would an infant's.
Case closed. You stick to one part of the fight without giving credit to the parts that do not fit your narrowed theory. I will now discontinue to debate with you.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Case closed. You stick to one part of the fight without giving credit to the parts that do not fit your narrowed theory. I will now discontinue to debate with you.

Escape post.

Superman broke her wrist easily.

Credit? Narrowed theory?

Her only feat was having the writer NOT let her get killed.

I can't believe people argue WW against Supes, especially after all their fights...

thor

Diana stated that she was barely holding back....and what she did on panel doesnt give that impression (slitting someone throat with a tiara??). And she was only able to do that because he thought it was doomsday (who through some flaw of character design has no tiara).
It was also stated that he was trying to torture a doomsday he thought had killed lois, not that he was going all out.
Lastly, he's no goed her atleast 2 other times.

An unrestrained supes had a Diana with non standard equipment in a position where he could kill her in 2 pages. She didnt land a blow:
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/925/46987405ov7.jpg
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5230/84097996bl6.jpg

Originally posted by Spire
Escape post.

Superman broke her wrist easily.

Credit? Narrowed theory?

Her only feat was having the writer NOT let her get killed.

I can't believe people argue WW against Supes, especially after all their fights...
Who's arguing that Superman won't win? Stop reading what you want to read. He broke her wrist in an enraged fit while she was calm and holding back. The very fact that he didnt' cave her head in while Sun amped disproves your entire argument. It's almost as if you are arguing against WW because you don't like the character. Which IMO is bad debating.

Originally posted by khazra
Diana stated that she was barely holding back....and what she did on panel doesnt give that impression (slitting someone throat with a tiara??). And she was only able to do that because he thought it was doomsday (who through some flaw of character design has no tiara).
It was also stated that he was trying to torture a doomsday he thought had killed lois, not that he was going all out.
Lastly, he's no goed her atleast 2 other times.

An unrestrained supes had a Diana with non standard equipment in a position where he could kill her in 2 pages. She didnt land a blow:
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/925/46987405ov7.jpg
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5230/84097996bl6.jpg That's not continuity. What the heck are you trying to pull?

Lol and even when she shows up gear in to fight Supes she fails.

in which case i apologise, i thought it was.

When he was being controlled by a vampire, she also proved totally incapable of standing to him.

Originally posted by khazra
in which case i apologise, i thought it was.

When he was being controlled by a vampire, she also proved totally incapable of standing to him.
No she didn't. in the JLA arc? Are you serious? She wasn't even trying to fight him. She was trying to get to the vampire.

sorry, im getting my showings mixed up..i meant this fight:

http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230299_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg11/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230301_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg12/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230302_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg13/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230304_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg17/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230307_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg18/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230308_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg19/

he twice shows himself to be leagues faster than her & easily cathces her blows. Shes got extra equipment & is going for it.

Originally posted by khazra
sorry, im getting my showings mixed up..i meant this fight:

http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230299_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg11/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230301_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg12/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230302_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg13/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230304_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg17/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230307_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg18/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230308_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg19/

he twice shows himself to be leagues faster than her & easily cathces her blows. Shes got extra equipment & is going for it.
That fight was before her last two strength upgrades.

Originally posted by khazra
sorry, im getting my showings mixed up..i meant this fight:

http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230299_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg11/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230301_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg12/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230302_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg13/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230304_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg17/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230307_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg18/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230308_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg19/

he twice shows himself to be leagues faster than her & easily cathces her blows. Shes got extra equipment & is going for it.

I think that puts diana in a more favorable light...Supes vs thor H2h...is spite...thor would be down fast!.....this just makes me give WW a 10/10 victory over Thor...thanks

Originally posted by khazra

An unrestrained supes had a Diana with non standard equipment in a position where he could kill her in 2 pages. She didnt land a blow:
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/925/46987405ov7.jpg
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5230/84097996bl6.jpg

Non-canon

WW vs Supes during the OMAC run.
Supes takes her to the sun, he had the surprise on his side.
He burned her cheek, she deflected his HV with her fingertips
He punched her from the sun to earth, she prayed, that the place she lands is deserted .

He freezes her, wants to shmash her with an rock.
He says he wants to put doomsday (diana) down. (no torturing intentions avaiable )
He notices that she isn't in the iceblock anymore, he listens, she sneaks up on him and hit's his ears, while he is using superhearing.
Diana states:
"I hold back".
"Barely" (another block, not in one sentence btw).
"He's not the enemy".
She kicks him in the head, the knee and punches him to the ground .
"I need to buy time"
"enough time to get the lasso on him, use it to clear his mind, if only for a moment."
He dodges her lasso, she blocks his punch and His HV.
NOW he catches the wrist of the hand with the lasso. She dodges his punch and gives him an nice uppercut.
NOW he breaks her wrist, he hold her arm the whole time.
She breaks free and dodges his punch, his HV and kicks him down.
She now has the time to call on some birds to distrat him because
""This isn't about him, it's about max, i have to reach max, which means i have to slow kal down"
The birds do their job, supes hurricanes them away.
WW is on max with her lasso, he says
"one minute fifty four seconds from start to finish."
And
"Any second now he'll arrive and this will start all over again and he will keep coming at you until you kill him or he kills you" (Max should know that supes is in killing rage, he's in his head after all ).

Supes inc.

Diana says no and speedthorws her tiara to cut clarks throat. He hold's his throat and does nothing. He has his hand full of holding the blood spilling out.
WW says :
"this ends here. this ends now. release him.
MAx says
"fine",
and clark is free.

This is the fight from the actual comic, never once stated supes he wants to torture her. What you have in mind is another version of this fight, something superman remembered, (from another writer) it holds not a grain of truth upon the actual fight i described you.
In this fight, Supes going all out LOST to WW, she could have killed him WHILE she was holding back. In a real fight it would have been different, clark with an clear mind is more dangerous.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Except I read comics. Batman is the prep master. He's the one who comes up with all those fancy plans for the JLA. It's him who's telling Superman and Diana to take out the big physical threats. He's the one ( Along with MM) Who come up with those battle strats. They even talk about their practice when they fight Amazo. Also, batman has prep for everything conventional. He wasn't prepped for Konvict because he'd never heard of him, so yeah, The fall back plan is for Wonder Woman to help Superman with the major physical threads.

you got it right. fall back plan i.e. when batman is busy with something else.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Prep? What prep? Kryptonite? Leverage is the angle by which you can gain the upper hand. WW who cannot lie, has said Zoom hits harder than Superman, and she took his punches without breaking so much as one bone.

by that rationale you assume superman has ever hit diana as hard as he can hit.

Superman would crush Diana.

She ain't fighting Superman here. She's fighting a hammerless/magicless Thor.