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Man of Miracle?

Originally posted by guy222
u kiddin right?

Man o Miracles in a shitstomp

MoM was the supreme being in Spawn comics.
she/he takes this

Man of Miracles is arguably the strongest being in comics on-panel
(excluding caricatures like Myx, Herbie Popnecker, etc.)

Mandrakk

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
u kiddin right?

Man o Miracles in a shitstomp



did u read about mandrakk

Originally posted by shokosugi
Mandrakk

is it an easy win

Originally posted by guy222


did u read about mandrakk yeah...did u read about ManofMiracles?

make it PM vs MoM then u got a real fight

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Man of Miracles is arguably the strongest being in comics on-panel
(excluding caricatures like Myx, Herbie Popnecker, etc.) even these guys dont stand a chance (unless they go 4th wall or somethin )

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
yeah...did u read about ManofMiracles?

make it PM vs MoM then u got a real fight Disagree. In the DCU proper the Presence is the creator and everything. Let there be light and all that.

The Primal Monitor, to whom this creation/multiverse was an insignificant speck, didn't even notice this shit was happening, and sent a probe that eventually went bad started ****ing eating it. Mandrakk.

Originally posted by Juntai
Disagree. In the DCU proper the Presence is the creator and everything Let there be light and all that.

The Primal Monitor, to whom this creation/multiverse was an insignificant spec, didn't even notice this shit was happening, and sent a probe that eventually went bad started ****ing eating it. Mandrakk. PM = Presence

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
PM = Presence (like PR Beyonder = TOAA) I disagree, in the stories presented in continuity, the Presence not only acknowledged, but willingly, knowingly and with his own power created the multiverse and dimensions of DC.

The Primal Monitor didn't even notice these stories happening.

He sent a probe, that eventually began devouring it whole, which was to be the destiny of all the monitors eventually , them being revealed to be almost vampiric in nature, the more time they spent with the stories. In a not quite so different manner of white blood cells attacking a disease.

Unless something changes down the road, PM is the new supreme, far beyond the creator of stories, so far in fact, that it was insignificant.

Originally posted by Juntai
I disagree, in the stories presented in continuity, the Presence not only acknowledged, but willingly, knowingly and with his own power created the multiverse and dimensions of DC.

The Primal Monitor didn't even notice these stories happening. so? just cos he made the DCU dont mean he have to notice everythin thats happenin inside it

PM = Presence make the most sense, else its 2 gods for the omniverse or w/e


its like PR beyonder = TOAA (but at least the marvel folks did teh right thing they retconed the beyonder lol)

Originally posted by Juntai

Unless something changes down the road, PM is the new supreme, far beyond the creator of stories, so far, that it was insignificant. then hes the real Presence. comes to same thing!

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
so? just cos he made the DCU dont mean he have to notice everythin thats happenin inside it

PM = Presence make the most sense, else its 2 gods for the omniverse or w/e


its like PR beyonder = TOAA (but at least the marvel folks did teh right thing they retconed the beyonder lol)

then hes the real Presence. comes to same thing! What you said doesn't even begin to challenge any of my post.

Originally posted by Juntai
What you said doesn't even begin to challenge any of my post. but ur post is basicaly sayin that DC writers ****ed up big time

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
but ur post is basicaly sayin that DC writers ****ed up big time Because Grant Morrison possibly created an idea bigger than a creator?

Like I said, in continuity presented the Presence created the DC's primary multiverse and dimensions knowingly and with it's own power.

The Primal Monitor never even noticed this happening because it was so insignificant of an event to it.

They are clearly not the same being.


Unless something happens in continuity to change it, I'm more likely to believe that Presence was another another anomaly, another story, rather than believing he might be one in the same with a being that is presented on panel as completely different.

The Pax Dei showing up in the final battle inside of the multiverse may even lead credence to this idea. Suggesting even the world of the monitors where Superman battled the Dax Novu/Mandrakk was beyond conflict from heaven, because it certainly played it's hand against Ogama.

Granted, angels are no replacement for the creator himself, but they do represent the wishes of The Word/Presence. If the battle against Ogama was important enough, wouldn't the battle against the far superior Dax Novu be as well?

Also, God's Mercy and God's Wrath were left helpless against Ogama, who seems indetifiably far weaker than Dax Novu, the ultimate threat.


However, with help from Dax Novu's cosmic armor, powered by the ultimate story of the Presence's creation helped save all existance.

I would agree with Juntai.. The Monitor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monitor_(comics) and the Anti-Monitor represent 2 sides, one good and one evil side of the Primal Monitor. TGEB and The Presence seem to follow the same logic, but in a spiritual realm.. A weakened Mandrakk Ogama did say that The Spectre and The Radiant was Gods servants and main protectors in 'this universe' and he drained them of power but never thought of any of the other defenses it that the Creator put in place and was subsequently overwhelmed by it.

Juntai got it right.

However, arguments can be made that Presence=PM. In addition, argument can be made that Superman, Source, or the Presence created DCU

so basicaly u guys think Presence aint the "real" god no more but only another non-omipotent god? (like in Vertigo?)

btw some1 here said Vertigo aint canon so that dont count anyway

No! Vertigo is canon.

I don't recall Vertigo being part of 52.. Wildstorm definitely is, but not sure about Vertigo.

Perhaps, Vertigo is canon as a separate universe from DCU?

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I don't recall Vertigo being part of 52.. Wildstorm definitely is, but not sure about Vertigo.

Perhaps, Vertigo is canon as a separate universe from DCU?
Too bad, it is I'll try to get proof

MoM

If that is true, then DC has messed up the hierarchy even further than we know.

I mean, Elaine is supreme in Vertigo.. then we have The Presence in the main DCU.. then PM comes along, who seems to be the DC version of PR Beyonder.

Reading Superman Beyond more thoughts been given to who the Monkey was who wrote the Book of the Infinite, It seems to be God who took that form and wrote it.. Pretty sure we all know Mandrakk is Mammon the Lord of Greed. Ultraman is owned at the end when Mandrakk Ogama turned him into a vampire and steals his thoughts and reads the Book of the Infinite. Mandrakk in FC believes he gets to win but the ending must have changed or they both misinterpreted it. This would keep the hierarchy the same as it has always been.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
If that is true, then DC has messed up the hierarchy even further than we know.

I mean, Elaine is supreme in Vertigo.. then we have The Presence in the main DCU.. then PM comes along, who seems to be the DC version of PR Beyonder.
Elaine is actually a vessel of the Presence

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Elaine is actually a vessel of the Presence
Hmmm...
Never thought of that, since I used to believe that Vertigoverse is a separate reality from DCU.

MoM with ease.

If things are retconned this way, then not even the fully backed Specter would hold a candle against the LT : |

the presence and the primal monitor are both omnipotent in the truest sense of the word. thus i can see how one might be inclined to refer to them as equals, if that person were speaking purely from a "power wise" standpoint.

however, they are not "=" in any other way(s). juntai was spot on with his argument.

Originally posted by Galan007
the presence and the primal monitor are both omnipotent in the truest sense of the word. thus i can see how one might be inclined to refer to them as equals, if that person were speaking purely from a "power wise" standpoint.

however, they are not "=" in any other way(s). juntai was spot on with his argument.

Are we saying the Primal Monitor is omnipotent because he considers the event of creation minimal? I don't see why we should.

Originally posted by Bentley
Are we saying the Primal Monitor is omnipotent because he considers the event of creation minimal? I don't see why we should. i'm saying the PM is truly omnipotent, because even the other 'omnipotent' powers of the DCU are nothing but germs in comparison.

imo, calling the PM anything less than omnipotent, when it views powers on THAT level as "germs" is a tinge on the ludicrous side.

Originally posted by Galan007
i'm saying the PM is truly omnipotent, because even the other 'omnipotent' powers of the DCU are nothing but germs in comparison.

imo, calling the PM anything less than omnipotent, when it views powers on THAT level as "germs" is a tinge on the ludicrous side.

What is your view on the monkey (God?) who wrote the Infinite Book. He is the one who is telling the story. Whats your view of them?

Originally posted by Galan007
i'm saying the PM is truly omnipotent, because even the other 'omnipotent' powers of the DCU are nothing but germs in comparison.

imo, calling the PM anything less than omnipotent, when it views powers on THAT level as "germs" is a tinge on the ludicrous side.

who wins my friend

Originally posted by Galan007
i'm saying the PM is truly omnipotent, because even the other 'omnipotent' powers of the DCU are nothing but germs in comparison.

imo, calling the PM anything less than omnipotent, when it views powers on THAT level as "germs" is a tinge on the ludicrous side.

i'd disagree with that last point. it could simply be seen as being equally ludicrous to call those 'other powers' "omnipotents" in the first place.

there will always be a bigger, more powerful threat out there.

Mandrakk vs a Supreme being.

The Supreme being.

Doesn't matter how great Mandrakk was or how little the multiverse is to him. The writer -always- wins.

Gotta agree with Leonidas here.

Originally posted by kevdude
What is your view on the monkey (God?) who wrote the Infinite Book. He is the one who is telling the story. Whats your view of them? no one literally wrote the infinite book, it's more-so a compilation of... everything. an "encyclopedia universal" as it were. though i can imagine the "monkey" who was responsible for compiling it could certainly be viewed as god, but who really knows?

however, the book itself does have detailed accounts of anything/everything imaginable that said, i personally view it as something akin to destiny's book, but probably even >, because it tells a story from a 'pre-creation' point of view

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd disagree with that last point. it could simply be seen as being equally ludicrous to call those 'other powers' "omnipotents" in the first place.

there will always be a bigger, more powerful threat out there. i'm saying that from an "in the comic universe" standpoint, the powers i mentioned are, for all intents and purposes, omnipotent. just because the primal monitor encompasses them all, which subsequently gives it the role of their superior, doesn't change the fact that those i mentioned are still all powerful within the physical DC creation.

the second part of your post can be applied to absolutely anything in comics - even the primal monitor. meaning: it may seem to be the "end all be all" now, but a few years down the road, something more powerful could very well arise.

But "omnipotent" people inside DC are no longer real omnipotents because any uber powerful outsider can become untouchable inside DC's creation. I don't care if its because their status as outsiders, I consider alternate IG a lot lamer than 616's because the scope of their powers is limited, if the backed Specter is limited on his power he becomes implicitly lame too.

Originally posted by Galan007
i'm saying that from an "in the comic universe" standpoint, the powers i mentioned are, for all intents and purposes, omnipotent. just because the primal monitor encompasses them all, which subsequently gives it the role of their superior, doesn't change the fact that those i mentioned are still all powerful within the physical DC creation.

the second part of your post can be applied to absolutely anything in comics - even the primal monitor. meaning: it may seem to be the "end all be all" now, but a few years down the road, something more powerful could very well arise.

meh. maybe it's pedantry. the term omnipotent really has no place. like infinite in the comic sense. both have various levels. one can't be 'all-powerful' in just 'their realm'. at least not and truly be said to be all-powerful. its rather like the imps as they move up the dimensions.

this isn't really me debating anything here. just saying the term omnipotent should be applied a lot less. and of course a greater threat will arise. eventually. or this will be retconned . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm just arguing semantics. fixed.

bah.

hug

don't be jealous. wink