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who wins?

Shiva and BC

Team 1. Shiva needs a better partner.

BC has beaten Sabretooth (retconned as her beating MUTANT Sabretooth) and damn near killed Lizard and Vulture, among others.

Originally posted by redhotrash
BC has beaten Sabretooth (retconned as her beating MUTANT Sabretooth) and damn near killed Lizard and Vulture, among others. I know in lizard's case black cat's power and ferocity was amped by an artifact.......and i'd guess she was amped somehow when she went up against sabes too.......but either way i'd vote team 2

team one

Catwoman is so past her prime

I have to say team 2 in a stomp.

I was under the impression Elektra was Marvel's Lady Shiva. Also I'm not sure how Catwoman vs Black Cat would go down but I don't think either team stomps.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm not sure how Catwoman vs Black Cat would go down. Black Cat wins handily.

Elektra is leagues above everybody here.

She's a more skilled, more versatile, and physically superior Lady Shiva.

If this were straight head to head, I guess Shiva would give Elektra some work to do. But as it stands Elektra has her telepathy and special chi moves to her advantage as well.

Team 1 stomps. Once Elektra punches a hole through Shiva, Black Cat gets raped by someone completely out of her class.

Originally posted by redhotrash
BC has beaten Sabretooth (retconned as her beating MUTANT Sabretooth) and damn near killed Lizard and Vulture, among others.

no it never was reconnted.

Sabre-tooth was simply given powers later.


It does not make her feat any more impressive.

Originally posted by BattleMage
I have to say team 2 in a stomp.

Read some Elektra.

How was he given powers later? Hes a mutant, and a fairly old one...

Team 2-Shiva would give Elektra a good fight, while Black Cat, having been able to beat Sabretooth, would demolish Catwoman. So this fight would quickly become 2 on 1-then its goodnight Elektra.

And then Elektra gets pissed and lets loose a silent scream and KOs both. lol

BlackCat also has her badluck powers now (for like the 4th time)

She tries that and Elektra gives her a brain hemorrhage.

Originally posted by Konton
She tries that and Elektra gives her a brain hemorrhage.

Not if Felicia's bad luck power makes Elektra drop her Sais and fall on them, impaling herself. As I said before-goodnight Elektra.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Not if Felicia's bad luck power makes Elektra drop her Sais and fall on them, impaling herself. As I said before-goodnight Elektra.
I don't think luck powers are the same as reality warping, they just sort of enforce Murphy's Law to the tenth power.

I still don't see team 2 putting down a tank like Elektra, even with her shitty partner.

Sooo.. in her later appearance BC mentioned that hse beat Sabertooth, i know he didnt have all his powers back then, but its now canon in MU that he always had them. Does it mean she beat the mutant Sabertooth?

Originally posted by SamZED
Sooo.. in her later appearance BC mentioned that hse beat Sabertooth, i know he didnt have all his powers back then, but its now canon in MU that he always had them. Does it mean she beat the mutant Sabertooth?

Yes -Marvel haven't come up with any retcon or explanation for how Felicia could beat Creed. So Black Cat is capable of beating someone who has bested Logan in fair fights

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Yes -Marvel haven't come up with any retcon or explanation for how Felicia could beat Creed. So Black Cat is capable of beating someone who has bested Logan in fair fights That's crazy and awesome at the same time. If that's the case team 2 stomps

Elektra also beats Wolverine is straight up fights. With his full powerset.

Originally posted by Konton
Elektra also beats Wolverine is straight up fights. With his full powerset.

So Elektra=Sabretooth then. Black Cat>Sabretooth
So Black Cat >Elektra

So you make my arguement for me-Team 2 ftw!!!!

That doesn't make any sense. Why would Elektra be equal to Sabertooth and Black Cat be greater?

Elektra has a much better track record than either girl on team 2. She has ON PANEL FEATS, can take down groups of highly skilled MA's like Taskmaster and treat him like canon fodder, outmuscle Daredevil, etc. etc.

Then you have her telepathy, which neither girl on team 2 can combat in any way shape or form.

LOL, I certainly wouldnt say BC > Sabretooth, but shes not a pushover either. Shes fought Venom, Carnage, and a host of other Spider-Man villains before and held her own. Im not disregarding Elektra at all, just saying she'd likely have a 2vs1 situation here which would hard to overcome.

Originally posted by Konton
That doesn't make any sense. Why would Elektra be equal to Sabertooth and Black Cat be greater?

Elektra has a much better track record than either girl on team 2. She has ON PANEL FEATS, can take down groups of highly skilled MA's like Taskmaster and treat him like canon fodder, outmuscle Daredevil, etc. etc.

Then you have her telepathy, which neither girl on team 2 can combat in any way shape or form.

Elektra and Creed are equal as both have beaten Logan. Black Cat has beaten Creed. So Elektra is equal to Creed and Felecia is superior to both. Hah!

Are you seriously trying to throw ABC logic at me? FLAWED ABC logic, no less.

Elektra is superior to both Shiva and Black Cat. She downs Shiva quicker than Cat would down Catwoman.

Worse case scenario Elektra falls back on her powers. I can't see her losing.

Originally posted by Konton
Are you seriously trying to throw ABC logic at me? FLAWED ABC logic, no less.

Elektra is superior to both Shiva and Black Cat. She downs Shiva quicker than Cat would down Catwoman.

Worse case scenario Elektra falls back on her powers. I can't see her losing. Can't you tell when someone's kidding?

Shiva has beaten the shit out of Catwoman before. She has no answer to Shiva's skill IIRC (she was saved by Talia al Ghul)

This will be a 2 on 1 affair I think. Catwoman will likely be out the fight early. Unless she goes up against Black Cat. I dunno how that'd play out.

Originally posted by redhotrash
BC has beaten Sabretooth (retconned as her beating MUTANT Sabretooth) and damn near killed Lizard and Vulture, among others.

Uh. No.... She never beat a mutant sabretooth, and it was never retconned, get that crap OUTA here.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Team 2-Shiva would give Elektra a good fight, while Black Cat, having been able to beat Sabretooth, would demolish Catwoman. So this fight would quickly become 2 on 1-then its goodnight Elektra.

Again... NO!

She beat a BARELY above human level Sabretooth who hadn't any powers written into his character yet, AND did so while she had physical enhancements that put her on Spidey level, AND STILL would have lost if it wasn't for some nonsense bad-luck plot device.... Both of which were written out of her character decades ago.

Oh... and team 1 stomps... read some Elektra.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Elektra and Creed are equal as both have beaten Logan. Black Cat has beaten Creed. So Elektra is equal to Creed and Felecia is superior to both. Hah!

You are being an idiot if you can't come to grips with the fact that CREED HAD NO POWERSET OR HISTORY WHEN HE FOUGHT FELECIA....

She barely survived their encounter as it was, if she tried fighting Sabretooth as he was written by the time the mutant massacre happened..... fagetaboutit!

Originally posted by jinzin
You are being an idiot if you can't come to grips with the fact that CREED HAD NO POWERSET OR HISTORY WHEN HE FOUGHT FELECIA....

She barely survived their encounter as it was, if she tried fighting Sabretooth as he was written by the time the mutant massacre happened..... fagetaboutit!

How do you know-if Felicia beat him once, she can do it again. FACT!

No... She can't... unless he was completely depowered and she had upgrades vastly superior to her common representation..... Like... oh I dunno WHEN THEY FOUGHT...


You seriously think Felecia could take CURRENT SABES? Neverming mutant massacre version? OOOOOOKay... you're flat out delusional.

Originally posted by jinzin
You are being an idiot if you can't come to grips with the fact that CREED HAD NO POWERSET OR HISTORY WHEN HE FOUGHT FELECIA....

She barely survived their encounter as it was, if she tried fighting Sabretooth as he was written by the time the mutant massacre happened..... fagetaboutit! Jin, I dont think you understood us correctly, everyone knows Sabertooth didnt have the powers back then, but these days storywise he always was a mutant with superpowers and hf and storywise Black Cat defeated him, so now it looks like writers make it canon that she defeated a mutant Sabertooth. Ofcourse this should not be taken seriously, but you have to agree that's kinda funny. Also I dont think she was enhanced back then, the upgrade only happened later and it didnt last.

Originally posted by SamZED
Jin, I dont think you understood us correctly, everyone knows Sabertooth didnt have the powers back then, but these days storywise he always was a mutant with superpowers and hf and storywise Black Cat defeated him, so now it looks like writers make it canon that she defeated a mutant Sabertooth. Ofcourse this should not be taken seriously, but you have to agree that's kinda funny. Also I dont think she was enhanced back then, the upgrade only happened later and it didnt last.

No she was enhanced then, Kingpin gave her the upgrade when she thought she had rid herself of the luck powers, taking down sabretooth was her big test.

And yeah it's funny, and yes Sabretooth has always been a mutant, but NO you simply can't use it as evidence of Felecia's ability in combat as it completely ignores the context of when it was written. Again, to say it has any relivence here means you would think she capable of doing that to Sabretooth AFTER powers were written into his character.... it's absurd on every level.. Especially when he had 2 month old lacerations on his face that STILL hadn't healed in that fight.. WTF.

Black Cat and Catwoman are useless in this fight.

I give Lady Shiva the nod in skills if she really has beaten batman and trained Batgirl.

I give Elektra the Nod in agility, weapons and other powers.

Elektra wins.

Originally posted by jinzin
No she was enhanced then, Kingpin gave her the upgrade when she thought she had rid herself of the luck powers, taking down sabretooth was her big test.

And yeah it's funny, and yes Sabretooth has always been a mutant, but NO you simply can't use it as evidence of Felecia's ability in combat as it completely ignores the context of when it was written. Again, to say it has any relivence here means you would think she capable of doing that to Sabretooth AFTER powers were written into his character.... it's absurd on every level.. Especially when he had 2 month old lacerations on his face that STILL hadn't healed in that fight.. WTF. I personally do not think she can last against Sabertooth a minute, let alone defeat him, so ofcourse I wouldnt seriously use it as an evidence, but it looks like writers desided to make her victory over mutant Creed canon seeing how she mentioned that to Rhino, this is kind of like Squirrel Girl defeating Thanos. It happened but it should not be taken seriously.

Pretty much my point.

All she said was that she took on Sabretooth there though, there was never a real retcon on the story, his powers etc were never mentioned. That's important to remember. I never said the even didn't happen just that it has no merit. Her recollecting that it happened doesn't give it merit.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Black Cat and Catwoman are useless in this fight.

I give Lady Shiva the nod in skills if she really has beaten batman and trained Batgirl.

I give Elektra the Nod in agility, weapons and other powers.

Elektra wins.

Elektra is more skilled. She punks Taskmaster like he's a joke. She routinely screws with Daredevil. She took down Bullseye while drugged, injured, sleep deprived, and poisoned. She has better accuracy, hand to hand, armed combat, speed, stealth, strength, and durability feats.

Shiva is completely outclassed. Her only amazing feat was her Shadowdragon encounter which was total PIS because she beat a fully armored Superman level villain with a stick...

Originally posted by jinzin
No... She can't... unless he was completely depowered and she had upgrades vastly superior to her common representation..... Like... oh I dunno WHEN THEY FOUGHT...


You seriously think Felecia could take CURRENT SABES? Neverming mutant massacre version? OOOOOOKay... you're flat out delusional.


I should have a column in the Angling Times

Originally posted by jinzin
Pretty much my point.

All she said was that she took on Sabretooth there though, there was never a real retcon on the story, his powers etc were never mentioned. That's important to remember. I never said the even didn't happen just that it has no merit. Her recollecting that it happened doesn't give it merit. I remember her saying something like "ive defeated opponents far more dangerous than you" or something like that and a flashback of Sabertooth, I dont think that would've been something to brag about unless they meant Sabertooth with powers, i mean she fought Carnage before but she'd mention a powerless Sabertooth? I think that was a weak attempt on writers side to give her some respect..

Originally posted by Konton
Elektra is more skilled. She punks Taskmaster like he's a joke. She routinely screws with Daredevil. She took down Bullseye while drugged, injured, sleep deprived, and poisoned. She has better accuracy, hand to hand, armed combat, speed, stealth, strength, and durability feats.

Shiva is completely outclassed. Her only amazing feat was her Shadowdragon encounter which was total PIS because she beat a fully armored Superman level villain with a stick...
Co-signed

Originally posted by SamZED
I remember her saying something like "ive defeated opponents far more dangerous than you" or something like that and a flashback of Sabertooth, I dont think that would've been something to brag about unless they meant Sabertooth with powers, i mean she fought Carnage before but she'd mention a powerless Sabertooth? I think that was a weak attempt on writers side to give her some respect..
Yeah, VERY weak given how she was crapping herself in the same instance.

Meh I'd put almost any half credible mook above the likes of Rhino powers or not, unfortunately..

Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah, VERY weak given how she was crapping herself in the same instance.

Meh I'd put almost any half credible mook above the likes of Rhino powers or not, unfortunately.. lol yeah, but he's getting better I think, he held his own against wrecking crew for a while recently. Ofcourse nobody takes BC beating ST seriously, but it certanly can be used as a joke argument in Black Cat vs threads..

Originally posted by Konton
Elektra is more skilled. She punks Taskmaster like he's a joke. She routinely screws with Daredevil. She took down Bullseye while drugged, injured, sleep deprived, and poisoned. She has better accuracy, hand to hand, armed combat, speed, stealth, strength, and durability feats.

Shiva is completely outclassed. Her only amazing feat was her Shadowdragon encounter which was total PIS because she beat a fully armored Superman level villain with a stick... PIS? Or just a feat for Shiva that you are dismissing? He isn't a superman villian because of how powerful he is. It's just because of how skilled he is. She outskilled him.

Originally posted by SamZED
lol yeah, but he's getting better I think, he held his own against wrecking crew for a while recently. Ofcourse nobody takes BC beating ST seriously, but it certanly can be used as a joke argument in Black Cat vs threads..

SO IT SHALL BE!


Black Cat > Sabretooth > Wendigo...

Team one has NO CHANCE! NO CHANCE!

Originally posted by jinzin
SO IT SHALL BE!


Black Cat > Sabretooth > Wendigo...

Team one has NO CHANCE! NO CHANCE!

Now you're talking.

Sorry, I was under Elektra's .... Hypnosis.. yyyyeah...

Originally posted by Zeuodin
PIS? Or just a feat for Shiva that you are dismissing? He isn't a superman villian because of how powerful he is. It's just because of how skilled he is. She outskilled him.

Um, no. He's a Superman level villain because of his battle suit... which grants him light speed movement. He was wearing this suit when he encountered Shiva, and she took it apart with a stick. PIS.