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Fight takes place in an earth sized planet. All bloodlusted. Fight to the death.....!!!

Captain Marvel as in fellow thunder brother!!! not genis or phyla or whoever......

Team 2.

At first I was inclined to go with Team one. Thor being the Odinson and All. But then I had to remember that Orion and WW both have Super Speed while Thor does not. While I do not see Wonder Woman being able to do more than Stalemate CM unless she gets the lasso around him, Orion can effectively one shot CM with the Astro Force. Thor Could one Shot WW if he could land a hit with his hammer or blast. But she's faster and can block out any and every attack under Thor's belt. So I'm going with Team 2 for the slimmest of wins

can she really block out any and all attacks under Thor's belt?>??

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
can she really block out any and all attacks under Thor's belt?>??

With her bracers, yes.

Does Orion have the mother box?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Does Orion have the mother box?
Isn't it part of his standard equipment? Without it he's just a raging monster.

T1

Originally posted by Konton
With her bracers, yes.


yeah but how do you block an omniderectional energy attack???

prolly team one but can go either way

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
yeah but how do you block an omniderectional energy attack???
With a force field.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
With a force field.

You should probably clarify for people that Diana has been able to manifest the full power of the Aegis by assuming her "crossed bracers" pose, particularly against the manifest power of other gods, and repel the power they use against her (such as when she deflected the united power of all the Olympian gods when it came time to destroy/rebuild Olympus back in WW #22 (or it might have 23, I forget which) 2nd Series. Her being able to do that is one of the lesser known "tricks" she has up her sleaves (so to speak), and few people who aren't real WW fans know that if they don't follow the series faithfully.

EDIT: Dammit, forgot to weigh in...

That's a tough one. Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel are equally matched, physically (the balance of him being marginally stronger, and her having superior combat skill); Thor and Orion... that's a bit tougher, still, as each has his advantages (Thor is stronger, IMO, while Orion is faster, and each has a whoop-ass power attack).

I will go with team 2, but very marginal victory, as Diana directs Orion strategically, the two of them indirectly taking down Billy, and eventually overwhelming Thor (but it will be a VERY drawn out battle, and even though I am saying Team 2, I ain't puttin' any money on 'em... )

Originally posted by Konton
With her bracers, yes. When did this happen?

Originally posted by BattleMage
When did this happen?

It didn't, but nothing has ever penetrated the Aegis Shield.... which is her answer to any and all area of effect attacks.

I'd post up the Greek Pantheon scans, but I'm sick of posting them over and over again. =p

Team 1

Originally posted by BattleMage
When did this happen?

The first time Diana displayed this trick was (as I mentioned above) around WW#22, or 23 or so, 2nd Series, about 20 years ago. She has accomplished this feat on several occasions since then (repelling/resisting the likes of sustained attacks by Darkseid's Omega Effect -- much to his annoyance -- and the overt power of other gods and similar beings). It is not something she does all the time (in writing terms, it's one of her more marginal abilites), but it has saved a number of people on several occasions, including Superman, when she protected him against (the aforementioned) Omega Effect, and more recently saving him from the heatvision/green latern energy attacks from Amazo in the JLA story-arc from issues #24-28 (might be off an issue or two there, as I am not near the books, but that's about right)...

There are many, MANY people who underestimate Diana because they don't understand how she has changed and evolved over the past 3 decades, and even before Crisis on Infinite Earths... it's why discussions like this often fall flat to some people, because they don't understand that she is on par with Superman, Captain Marvel, Thor, and similar heroes, not simply in regards to strength (as she is nearly as strong as any of them) but other abilities that she possesses...

Team 1.

team one if cm is billy

Team 2. Thor is the weak, or should i say, the slow link.

Originally posted by tideoftime
The first time Diana displayed this trick was (as I mentioned above) around WW#22, or 23 or so, 2nd Series, about 20 years ago. She has accomplished this feat on several occasions since then (repelling/resisting the likes of sustained attacks by Darkseid's Omega Effect -- much to his annoyance -- and the overt power of other gods and similar beings). It is not something she does all the time (in writing terms, it's one of her more marginal abilites), but it has saved a number of people on several occasions, including Superman, when she protected him against (the aforementioned) Omega Effect, and more recently saving him from the heatvision/green latern energy attacks from Amazo in the JLA story-arc from issues #24-28 (might be off an issue or two there, as I am not near the books, but that's about right)...

There are many, MANY people who underestimate Diana because they don't understand how she has changed and evolved over the past 3 decades, and even before Crisis on Infinite Earths... it's why discussions like this often fall flat to some people, because they don't understand that she is on par with Superman, Captain Marvel, Thor, and similar heroes, not simply in regards to strength (as she is nearly as strong as any of them) but other abilities that she possesses... Well spoken! Team 1 ftw.

50/50 split.

I'm thinking it's gonna be one hell of a long drawn out battle. This as even a match as i can think up. An extra super duper long fight favors team one, while a bit shorter one (still long drawn out battle) I believe favors team two.

Team 1 all day. WW's a weak link.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Team 1 all day. WW's a weak link.

Another poster who doesn't read the books... a shame...

Though it *is* said that ignorance is bliss...

Must be very blissful where you are...

I almost envy you...

Originally posted by tideoftime
Another poster who doesn't read the books... a shame...

Though it *is* said that ignorance is bliss...

Must be very blissful where you are...

I almost envy you... She is the weak link here. All of the other characters are stronger and more powerful than her.

In this thread she is the weak link without a doubt.

If you can prove me wrong then do so.

Originally posted by BattleMage
Well spoken! Team 1 ftw.

Thank you.

While I voted *marginal* Team 2, like I said further up I ain't putting any money on them, as I can also see why Team 1 could win also, so it really is a coin toss, for the most part. (The slightest edge that 2 has is if Wonder Woman and Orion can co-ordinate themselves, they are better strategic fighters than Team 1... but like I said: it's a close one...)

Originally posted by tideoftime
Thank you.

While I voted *marginal* Team 2, like I said further up I ain't putting any money on them, as I can also see why Team 1 could win also, so it really is a coin toss, for the most part. (The slightest edge that 2 has is if Wonder Woman and Orion can co-ordinate themselves, they are better strategic fighters than Team 1... but like I said: it's a close one...) Thor beats whoever gets in front of him. Now do you favor WW or Orion in a best of ten against the world's mightiest mortal?

Originally posted by quanchi112
She is the weak link here. All of the other characters are stronger and more powerful than her.

In this thread she is the weak link without a doubt.

If you can prove me wrong then do so.

Have only been here a short time, but I have quickly learned several things:

1: there are enough "Respect" threads that make references and provide scans that support everyone arguements well enough, but without actually negating anyone else's points (save for fanboy hyperbole).

2: Even when someone is presented with said references/scans, it never sways them in the slightest from their flawed perceptions, by and large.

3: When someone doesn't bother reading what other people have posted within a thread (issue # references and *legitimate* citing of events/quotes), then it becomes even more obvious that that someone doesn't bother with actually keeping up on the character's being discussed, and therefore their comments don't contribute anything significant to the discussion, and should be largely ignored.

Go to the Wonder Woman respect thread that (dude who's name I've forgotten) made. He provides better examples of Diana's abilities than I have time to do.

(Or don't... Most fanbois don't bother, anyway... disturbs their sense of things...)

Originally posted by tideoftime
Have only been here a short time, but I have quickly learned several things:

1: there are enough "Respect" threads that make references and provide scans that support everyone arguements well enough, but without actually negating anyone else's points (save for fanboy hyperbole).

2: Even when someone is presented with said references/scans, it never sways them in the slightest from their flawed perceptions, by and large.

3: When someone doesn't bother reading what other people have posted within a thread (issue # references and *legitimate* citing of events/quotes), then it becomes even more obvious that that someone doesn't bother with actually keeping up on the character's being discussed, and therefore their comments don't contribute anything significant to the discussion, and should be largely ignored.

Go to the Wonder Woman respect thread that (dude who's name I've forgotten) made. He provides better examples of Diana's abilities than I have time to do.

(Or don't... Most fanbois don't bother, anyway... disturbs their sense of things...) I agree.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor beats whoever gets in front of him. Now do you favor WW or Orion in a best of ten against the world's mightiest mortal?

Diana and Billy *have* fought each other before, and they are evenly matched (especially as her resistance to harm has improved over the past 20 years); he still *just* edges her out in terms of strength and durability, while she comes armed with artifacts than can defeat him, if properly employed, and has superior combat skills.

Orion's physical prowess against Captain Marvel is not as close, but he has other powers that aid greatly in this regard, so that is not a clear battle,either.

Thor is mighty, and stronger than Diana (though not by any degree what the fanbois believe -- she is practically as strong as Billy, and nearly as strong as Clark, as has been reiterated in the comics for over 10 years now), and his overt weopon attacks are stronger than her's, as well as his energy attacks (of which she classically has none); Diana, however, is *much* faster than he is, has defensive powers/weapons that match his assault capabilities, and she is a better tactical fighter.

This match-up is a good one, because there are not clear-cut, or majority, winners, either way.

(I state *again*, that I voted for Team 2 based *solely* on tactical finesse, and that is a slim advantage. An advantage, nonetheless, but a very narrow one...)

Originally posted by tideoftime
Diana and Billy *have* fought each other before, and they are evenly matched (especially as her resistance to harm has improved over the past 20 years); he still *just* edges her out in terms of strength and durability, while she comes armed with artifacts than can defeat him, if properly employed, and has superior combat skills.

Orion's physical prowess against Captain Marvel is not as close, but he has other powers that aid greatly in this regard, so that is not a clear battle,either.

Thor is mighty, and stronger than Diana (though not by any degree what the fanbois believe -- she is practically as strong as Billy, and nearly as strong as Clark, as has been reiterated in the comics for over 10 years now), and his overt weopon attacks are stronger than her's, as well as his energy attacks (of which she classically has none); Diana, however, is *much* faster than he is, has defensive powers/weapons that match his assault capabilities, and she is a better tactical fighter.

This match-up is a good one, because there are not clear-cut, or majority, winners, either way.

(I state *again*, that I voted for Team 2 based *solely* on tactical finesse, and that is a slim advantage. An advantage, nonetheless, but a very narrow one...) A few corrections. Orion is the Strongest person in the fight. He's the exact physical match Of Superman. He's stale mated Superman a few times in hand to hand. And he can one shot Superman with his AF force. He can also amp his strength and punches with the Af without using his harness. He also is superfast as when he pretended to be Mister Miracle for awhile Using all of Miracles skill and acrobatics. And Diana Does have two energy attacks. One she calls a soul burn. She also has the Godwave which is some kind of energy and stats amp at the same time.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Have only been here a short time, but I have quickly learned several things:

1: there are enough "Respect" threads that make references and provide scans that support everyone arguements well enough, but without actually negating anyone else's points (save for fanboy hyperbole).

2: Even when someone is presented with said references/scans, it never sways them in the slightest from their flawed perceptions, by and large.

3: When someone doesn't bother reading what other people have posted within a thread (issue # references and *legitimate* citing of events/quotes), then it becomes even more obvious that that someone doesn't bother with actually keeping up on the character's being discussed, and therefore their comments don't contribute anything significant to the discussion, and should be largely ignored.

Go to the Wonder Woman respect thread that (dude who's name I've forgotten) made. He provides better examples of Diana's abilities than I have time to do.

(Or don't... Most fanbois don't bother, anyway... disturbs their sense of things...) The point is despite all her skill she can't take too many blows from either Marvel or Thor.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Diana and Billy *have* fought each other before, and they are evenly matched (especially as her resistance to harm has improved over the past 20 years); he still *just* edges her out in terms of strength and durability, while she comes armed with artifacts than can defeat him, if properly employed, and has superior combat skills.

Orion's physical prowess against Captain Marvel is not as close, but he has other powers that aid greatly in this regard, so that is not a clear battle,either.

Thor is mighty, and stronger than Diana (though not by any degree what the fanbois believe -- she is practically as strong as Billy, and nearly as strong as Clark, as has been reiterated in the comics for over 10 years now), and his overt weopon attacks are stronger than her's, as well as his energy attacks (of which she classically has none); Diana, however, is *much* faster than he is, has defensive powers/weapons that match his assault capabilities, and she is a better tactical fighter.

This match-up is a good one, because there are not clear-cut, or majority, winners, either way.

(I state *again*, that I voted for Team 2 based *solely* on tactical finesse, and that is a slim advantage. An advantage, nonetheless, but a very narrow one...) Yes, because physically he edges her out. That's what it all boils down to. For WW to win she has to be at her best while neither Thor nor Marvel are to win the majority.

K, but I definitely see Thor's reflexes as more than quick eneough to catch her. He quickly ends her as his power dwarfs hers.

She also isn't as durable as any of the other combatants in the field either hence I stated she has to be near perfect to have a chance.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
A few corrections. Orion is the Strongest person in the fight. He's the exact physical match Of Superman. He's stale mated Superman a few times in hand to hand. And he can one shot Superman with his AF force. He can also amp his strength and punches with the Af without using his harness. He also is superfast as when he pretended to be Mister Miracle for awhile Using all of Miracles skill and acrobatics. And Diana Does have two energy attacks. One she calls a soul burn. She also has the Godwave which is some kind of energy and stats amp at the same time. He isn't Superman's exact physical match. Marvel is pretty much dead even in direct comparison to Superman in terms of strength. Orion is a hothead and his temper is legendary, but Thor pissed off is frightening as well and he is a lot more powerful than Orion.

Is it me or do people give a lot of opinions with no backing? No actual retort? No instances? If they give instances they give a low showing and ignore all the other showings of the characters they do not agree with? Opinions without reference and backing are nonsensical. Opinions on low showings while ignoring high end feats of the characters that you do not like while dismissing low showings of characters you do like is 5th grade ish. I need some real debate.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Is it me or do people give a lot of opinions with no backing? No actual retort? No instances? If they give instances they give a low showing and ignore all the other showings of the characters they do not agree with? Opinions without reference and backing are nonsensical. Opinions on low showings while ignoring high end feats of the characters that you do not like while dismissing low showings of characters you do like is 5th grade ish. I need some real debate. I am basing my opinions are what these characters are capable of. WW going toe to toe with Superman is a high showing not an average one. I didn't cut her short at all. All of these characters at their best are still stronger, more durable, and more powerful than her. You can't argue with that because that's how she has always been portrayed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am basing my opinions are what these characters are capable of. WW going toe to toe with Superman is a high showing not an average one. I didn't cut her short at all. All of these characters at their best are still stronger, more durable, and more powerful than her. You can't argue with that because that's how she has always been portrayed.
No actually Wonder Woman going against Konvict is a higher showing since he was tuff enough to go rounds with the entire JLA. And he knocked Superman out. Before He went armored form and got more powerful. Another higher showing was when she was taking shots from Ares or when she knocked him on his ass. Another higher showing for Wonder Woman was when she stood up to the shattered God who was more powerful than Ganthet, Zeus, all the greek gods and other earthly gods combined. Another Higher showing for wonder woman than Superman is when she fought Amazo by herself. Or when she fought A super doomsday. or when she fought Superman Fused with Doomsday by herself. Those are all higher feats than her fights with Superman. You did cut her short. You also cut Orion short. you said Thor was more powerful when Orion has the greater of the two's feats.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
No actually Wonder Woman going against Konvict is a higher showing since he was tuff enough to go rounds with the entire JLA. And he knocked Superman out. Before He went armored form and got more powerful. Another higher showing was when she was taking shots from Ares or when she knocked him on his ass. Another higher showing for Wonder Woman was when she stood up to the shattered God who was more powerful than Ganthet, Zeus, all the greek gods and other earthly gods combined. Another Higher showing for wonder woman than Superman is when she fought Amazo by herself. Or when she fought A super doomsday. or when she fought Superman Fused with Doomsday by herself. Those are all higher feats than her fights with Superman. You did cut her short. You also cut Orion short. you said Thor was more powerful when Orion has the greater of the two's feats. Two things. First off she had aid. Second off Superman let him punch him. Had WW let him punch her square in the jaw what do you think what have happened?

These high showings still don't changer her strength which is beneath everyone in the field.


Thor's power showings crap all over Orion's best. He injured Galactus and ran him off in fear by a godblast.

Top that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Two things. First off she had aid. Second off Superman let him punch him. Had WW let him punch her square in the jaw what do you think what have happened?

These high showings still don't changer her strength which is beneath everyone in the field.


Thor's power showings crap all over Orion's best. He injured Galactus and ran him off in fear by a godblast.

Top that.
I don't know why I bothered. You are doing that same aweful debating thing again. She didn't have aid when she fought Konvict in his armored form. As you so conveniently missed, Konvict was in his lessor form when he trashed the JLA and KO'd Superman. When Wonder Woman fought him on her own, he was in his armored form. When Wonder Woman fought amazo, she had no aid. In none of the fights I mentioned did she have aid. Did she have aid when she whipped hercules's Ass? who was shown to be a peer of Superman? Who also happens to lend his strength to CM? Did she have aid when she fought Superman fused with Doomsday?

Your strength argument holds no weight since she has stalemated CM before. She's bested a daxamite. And no one is doing that unless they are high herald level strength. You ignore her high showings and say some silly shit like her high showings don't change her strength and then in the same breath say I'm supposed to accept someone else's high showings as evidence of their strength? Tacky aweful debating tactic.

Also Orion has Contained a universe Busting blast. Yes, He has topped Thor's feat. Universe Buster>>>Galactus.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am basing my opinions are what these characters are capable of. WW going toe to toe with Superman is a high showing not an average one. I didn't cut her short at all. All of these characters at their best are still stronger, more durable, and more powerful than her. You can't argue with that because that's how she has always been portrayed.


Read your other posts, but using this one for ease of response:

See, the problem is, it sounds like you are using the interpretation of Diana from 20+ years ago; she has become incrementally more durable over the years, and throughout this decade has been categorically described, by DC, as being on par with Captain Marvel and Superman (though obviously she doesn't have all of Supes other range of powers), and even her relative vulnerability to piercing/slashing attacks has been all but neutralized, even before Infinite Crisis. Not being dismissive of your opinion, as such, but it doesn really sound like you aren't up on Diana (or confuse the nature of most of her stories/settings, as they are often not as much about stomping ass, with her standing in the DC universe).

Zeuodin: I am aware of Orion's abilities, and was giving Billy the benefit of the doubt by comparison, as a median point to bring up Orion's energy attacks, which Billy has none to compare with. Also, while Diana has *circumstantially* been in situations where she has demonstrated "out-of-character" abilities (she just in recent issues had Zeus' power of god-lightening shooting from the Aegis bracers), that is not at all the norm for her character; her speed, strength, stamina, and combat skills, however, are, and I wanted to stay focused on the consistancies, rather than the exceptions, which only feed fanbois delusions further (even the WW fanbois, who are as bad as any others').

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I don't know why I bothered. You are doing that same aweful debating thing again. She didn't have aid when she fought Konvict in his armored form. As you so conveniently missed, Konvict was in his lessor form when he trashed the JLA and KO'd Superman. When Wonder Woman fought him on her own, he was in his armored form. When Wonder Woman fought amazo, she had no aid. In none of the fights I mentioned did she have aid. Did she have aid when she whipped hercules's Ass? who was shown to be a peer of Superman? Who also happens to lend his strength to CM? Did she have aid when she fought Superman fused with Doomsday?

Your strength argument holds no weight since she has stalemated CM before. She's bested a daxamite. And no one is doing that unless they are high herald level strength. You ignore her high showings and say some silly shit like her high showings don't change her strength and then in the same breath say I'm supposed to accept someone else's high showings as evidence of their strength? Tacky aweful debating tactic.

Also Orion has Contained a universe Busting blast. Yes, He has topped Thor's feat. Universe Buster>>>Galactus. Ah, ok. I thought you were referring to him after he initially slapped around the jla.

I still don't see why you would use Supes getting hit when he allowed it. Do you think WW could fare better against the same blow?

None of these showings prove she is as strong as Superman/Thor/Cm/Orion. This just shows off how formidable she can be.

Besting a daxamite also doesn't mean anything in regards to the characters in this thread.

Her higher strength showings still don't put her on par with Thor or Marvel. She has good feats but can't trade blows with any of these characters. That's the point I made and you are trying your hardest to dance around that simple obvious truth.


I think you are exaggerating again. When did Orion contain a universal blast?

Originally posted by tideoftime
Read your other posts, but using this one for ease of response:

See, the problem is, it sounds like you are using the interpretation of Diana from 20+ years ago; she has become incrementally more durable over the years, and throughout this decade has been categorically described, by DC, as being on par with Captain Marvel and Superman (though obviously she doesn't have all of Supes other range of powers), and even her relative vulnerability to piercing/slashing attacks has been all but neutralized, even before Infinite Crisis. Not being dismissive of your opinion, as such, but it doesn really sound like you aren't up on Diana (or confuse the nature of most of her stories/settings, as they are often not as much about stomping ass, with her standing in the DC universe).

Zeuodin: I am aware of Orion's abilities, and was giving Billy the benefit of the doubt by comparison, as a median point to bring up Orion's energy attacks, which Billy has none to compare with. Also, while Diana has *circumstantially* been in situations where she has demonstrated "out-of-character" abilities (she just in recent issues had Zeus' power of god-lightening shooting from the Aegis bracers), that is not at all the norm for her character; her speed, strength, stamina, and combat skills, however, are, and I wanted to stay focused on the consistancies, rather than the exceptions, which only feed fanbois delusions further (even the WW fanbois, who are as bad as any others'). when debating you have to call out every power Wonder Woman has. It's that simple. Because Thor fan boys will call out God blast and soul sucks and shit he almost never does. also, Orion has fought Superman hand to hand a few times and they always stalemate. He is Superman's Physical Equal.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ah, ok. I thought you were referring to him after he initially slapped around the jla.

I still don't see why you would use Supes getting hit when he allowed it. Do you think WW could fare better against the same blow?

None of these showings prove she is as strong as Superman/Thor/Cm/Orion. This just shows off how formidable she can be.

Besting a daxamite also doesn't mean anything in regards to the characters in this thread.

Her higher strength showings still don't put her on par with Thor or Marvel. She has good feats but can't trade blows with any of these characters. That's the point I made and you are trying your hardest to dance around that simple obvious truth.


I think you are exaggerating again. When did Orion contain a universal blast?
She traded blows with Konvict in armored Form but she can't trade blows with CM or Thor? What the heck? She already stalemated CM in war of the Gods. She beat Herculese who give his strength to CM. So yes she is as strong as any of the others. Stop dancing around the issue. She also traded blows with Superman Merged with Doomsday. Orion contained the quantum bomb which was going to destroy the entire universe. Oh and Superman allowing konvict to hit him doesn't change his durability or Konvicts strength? Superman allows bullets and buses to hit him all the time. they don't phase him. Konvict was just that strong. And Diana Stood up to him for a time in his ARMORED stronger more durable form all by herself.

It is true Wony has had a bump on how she is portrayed these days. She definitely seems much stronger and a bit more durable. Out of the four, it's Captain Marvel that hasn't had that many great showings of late. He gets my respect still because it has been stated many times that he is Clark's equal. (or almost equal) When it comes to raw strength, Thor and Orion seem to have the slight upperhand over the other two. When it comes to raw power, it is really hard to measure. Again I believe Thor and Orion take the cake here as well. Between those two, it's a toss up. Astro force has done some great showings, but Thor seems to have a near limitless well of "godly" force. Hard to pick a winner.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
when debating you have to call out every power Wonder Woman has. It's that simple. Because Thor fan boys will call out God blast and soul sucks and shit he almost never does. also, Orion has fought Superman hand to hand a few times and they always stalemate. He is Superman's Physical Equal.

Yeah... I understand what you're saying...

It's unfortunate that the story-based exceptions and marginal abilities have to be employed when debating with certain people about fictions like this; it just about sucks the magic out of the setting.

I'm just a sucker for reasonable debate and such... more fool me...

So far, you do seem to be the most reasonable person posting around here, though quan seems to be not too bad, himself.

I do agree, however, that Orion has the most general power out of those here; Thor has the most consistant assault power/aggression (I know - debatable); Wonder Woman has the superior combat skills; and Captain Marvel is near as tough as they come, with a marginal edge in over-all physical ability to the others (even if each beats him in a particular category).

Originally posted by Zeuodin
when debating you have to call out every power Wonder Woman has. It's that simple. Because Thor fan boys will call out God blast and soul sucks and shit he almost never does. also, Orion has fought Superman hand to hand a few times and they always stalemate. He is Superman's Physical Equal. Supes was described as a physical peer to Ds not Orion. Orion relies on his anger and his powers against Superman. If they just trade blows then it's Superman's fight.

Thor doesn't even need either of these powerful attacks. His hammer will more than do the job.

No, I don't think she can. If she just traded blows with Konvikt she'd lose. Thor has went rounds with Mangog, Durok, the Surfer, and the Hulk just to name a few.

The guy's a physical specimen and the Hulk hasn't been able to ko him yet. They have fought for hours and Hulk continually is getting stronger yet he can't beat Thor. WW's screwed.

When? Is this from cosmic odyssey?


Supes probably wouldn't have been ko'd had he been fighting him. If WW laid her chin out for him to smash she'd be out longer than Superman.

Supes ko'd her momentarily and easily snapped her wrist. If either Thor or Marvel go all out she isn't going to take much.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Yeah... I understand what you're saying...

It's unfortunate that the story-based exceptions and marginal abilities have to be employed when debating with certain people about fictions like this; it just about sucks the magic out of the setting.

I'm just a sucker for reasonable debate and such... more fool me...

So far, you do seem to be the most reasonable person posting around here, though quan seems to be not too bad, himself.

I do agree, however, that Orion has the most general power out of those here; Thor has the most consistant assault power/aggression (I know - debatable); Wonder Woman has the superior combat skills; and Captain Marvel is near as tough as they come, with a marginal edge in over-all physical ability to the others (even if each beats him in a particular category).
The way I see it. CM is the most durable out of the bunch. No one on the field can take punishment like CM. He can even instantly heal from Fatal injuries. Thor is the most versatile on the field and hits the hardest. No one is hitting harder than That hammer. Orion is the strongest as he is Superman's exact physical equal and he has the most powerful energy blast. He can one shot superman. No one else here can do that. Wonder Woman is the most skilled and the fastest, and has defense no one can break and two one shot weapons. While being the least durable of the 4. Not by much.

Given the evenness of the playing field, one can only come up with a stalemate.

Quanchi is a retard.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
The way I see it. CM is the most durable out of the bunch. No one on the field can take punishment like CM. He can even instantly heal from Fatal injuries. Thor is the most versatile on the field and hits the hardest. No one is hitting harder than That hammer. Orion is the strongest as he is Superman's exact physical equal and he has the most powerful energy blast. He can one shot superman. No one else here can do that. Wonder Woman is the most skilled and the fastest, and has defense no one can break and two one shot weapons. While being the least durable of the 4. Not by much.

Given the evenness of the playing field, one can only come up with a stalemate.

Agree

Can I pat myself on the back here since i started this post? Muahahahahaha... Man ya'll can debate for hours on end. Each giving good insight. Quanch though is an aggressive poster. =P no fault in that. (shows some passion) Hehehe....

Originally posted by quanchi112
Supes was described as a physical peer to Ds not Orion. Orion relies on his anger and his powers against Superman. If they just trade blows then it's Superman's fight.

Thor doesn't even need either of these powerful attacks. His hammer will more than do the job.

No, I don't think she can. If she just traded blows with Konvikt she'd lose. Thor has went rounds with Mangog, Durok, the Surfer, and the Hulk just to name a few.

The guy's a physical specimen and the Hulk hasn't been able to ko him yet. They have fought for hours and Hulk continually is getting stronger yet he can't beat Thor. WW's screwed.

When? Is this from cosmic odyssey?


Supes probably wouldn't have been ko'd had he been fighting him. If WW laid her chin out for him to smash she'd be out longer than Superman.

Supes ko'd her momentarily and easily snapped her wrist. If either Thor or Marvel go all out she isn't going to take much. Just aweful tactic. You know the examples and you refute them with what? nothing. Orion is the one shown to fight Superman blow for blow. Superman is not a peer of DS in strength. Even if he was a peer, peer does not mean equal. It was STATED AND shown in Superman confidential and DOTNG that Orion was the physical equal of Superman. Why are you arguing against what was Shown on panel?

And what do you mean if she just traded blows with Konvict She'd lose? She did trade blows with Konvict. She didn't use any superspeed. Any shields. any tiaras. That is exactly what she did. And she stalemated him in his armored form and then she was the one who knocked the wind out of him. Why are you directly arguing against what was shown on panel? You are giving an opinon of what would have happened as if these fights hadn't already taken place? konvict was also getting more powerful and guess what? He couldn't KO Wonder Woman. The Superman Doomsday couldn't Ko wonder woman either. The only time we see wonder woman Ko'd is by trans tiered or skyfather level beings or when she's not fighting back.

Orion contained universal busting energy in the new gods book. gessh it's difficult to contain my composure when arguing with you. Sometimes I just want to keep ignoring you like I've been doing.

Originally posted by Konton
Quanchi is a retard.
I'm banging my head against my desk debating with him. He won't refute my comments with comics. He just gives these opinions of what could have happened and what might have happened and ignores what did happen when it doesn't suit him.

He likes to use the word "peer" for the basis of his arguments.
A sign of preconceived notions and favoritism.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Supes ko'd her momentarily and easily snapped her wrist. If either Thor or Marvel go all out she isn't going to take much.

You are completely ignoring the fact that Diana was holding back (as stated by her directly in the fight) as she wasn't wanting to harm Clark, but help him; you are also oblivious to the fact that, as a point of story/demonstration, Supes beating on her was to demonstrate to the reader how durable and resistant she had become over the years. Once she realized that she couldn't hold back anymore, as Supes would eventually kill her and she couldn't get the lasso on him (again -- a point of literary drama -- once she stunned him at the end of the Wyoming portion of the fight, she could have got the lasso on him, but that would not have been dramatic to the story), she started fighting back in earnest. Diana is perfectly capable of taking blows from Superman, Thor, Captain Marvel, and the like. Now, does she possess some of the other qualities of invulnerability that Superman has? No. She can be harmed by poisons (though she recovers very quickly -- when poisoned by full on cyanide in B&B #7, she was only slowed down, and recovered from it quickly), is not as resistant to radiation or electricity (though she is still very resistant and recovers fast) and can't hold her breath as long (though much longer than you might think -- 15-20 minutes casually, or upwards of an hour under duress, which is something she could do even Pre-Crisis).

Alrighty people, Happy Thanksgiving.

I'm out for the night...

Originally posted by tideoftime
You are completely ignoring the fact that Diana was holding back (as stated by her directly in the fight) as she wasn't wanting to harm Clark, but help him; you are also oblivious to the fact that, as a point of story/demonstration, Supes beating on her was to demonstrate to the reader how durable and resistant she had become over the years. Once she realized that she couldn't hold back anymore, as Supes would eventually kill her and she couldn't get the lasso on him (again -- a point of literary drama -- once she stunned him at the end of the Wyoming portion of the fight, she could have got the lasso on him, but that would not have been dramatic to the story). Diana is perfectly capable of taking blows from Superman, Thor, Captain Marvel, and the like. Now, does she possess some of the other qualities of invulnerability that Superman has? No. She can be harmed by poisons (though she recovers very quickly -- when poisoned by full on cyanide in B&B #7, she was only slowed down, and recovered from it quickly), is not as resistant to radiation or electricity (though she is still very resistant and recovers fast) and can't hold her breath as long (though much longer than you might think -- 15-20 minutes casually, or upwards of an hour under duress, which is something she could do even Pre-Crisis).

Alrighty people, Happy Thanksgiving.

I'm out for the night... Wait, did you notice how he says Superman wasn't fighting Konvict and he uses that as a reason why Konvict was able to KO superman as to lessen Diana fighting Convict as a feat, then he turns around and says Diana's wrist broke all in the same breath while it's a direct comparison to Superman and Konvict since She wasn't fighting Superman back?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
The way I see it. CM is the most durable out of the bunch. No one on the field can take punishment like CM. He can even instantly heal from Fatal injuries. Thor is the most versatile on the field and hits the hardest. No one is hitting harder than That hammer. Orion is the strongest as he is Superman's exact physical equal and he has the most powerful energy blast. He can one shot superman. No one else here can do that. Wonder Woman is the most skilled and the fastest, and has defense no one can break and two one shot weapons. While being the least durable of the 4. Not by much.

Given the evenness of the playing field, one can only come up with a stalemate.


I'm gonna have to go with Orion and Thor as mor durable.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I'm gonna have to go with Orion and Thor as mor durable.
Orion heals the fastest from None Life Threating wounds. Mother box constatly heals New Gods in a fight. if they get seriously hurt they have to rest and take a while to heal them. But CM heals instantly from Life threatening wounds. he also has the stamina of atlas. Far more durable than the others IMO. Thor is durable to some extent. But not more than CM.

Originally posted by tideoftime
You are completely ignoring the fact that Diana was holding back (as stated by her directly in the fight) as she wasn't wanting to harm Clark, but help him; you are also oblivious to the fact that, as a point of story/demonstration, Supes beating on her was to demonstrate to the reader how durable and resistant she had become over the years. Once she realized that she couldn't hold back anymore, as Supes would eventually kill her and she couldn't get the lasso on him (again -- a point of literary drama -- once she stunned him at the end of the Wyoming portion of the fight, she could have got the lasso on him, but that would not have been dramatic to the story), she started fighting back in earnest. Diana is perfectly capable of taking blows from Superman, Thor, Captain Marvel, and the like. Now, does she possess some of the other qualities of invulnerability that Superman has? No. She can be harmed by poisons (though she recovers very quickly -- when poisoned by full on cyanide in B&B #7, she was only slowed down, and recovered from it quickly), is not as resistant to radiation or electricity (though she is still very resistant and recovers fast) and can't hold her breath as long (though much longer than you might think -- 15-20 minutes casually, or upwards of an hour under duress, which is something she could do even Pre-Crisis).

Alrighty people, Happy Thanksgiving.

I'm out for the night... Actually she's very resistant to electricty. Check out her respect thread. And she's also resistant to radiation. They were in the nakedness of space nearly next to the sun. That's all kinds of radiation from the sun and what ever is bouncing around in space.

Originally posted by Konton
Quanchi is a retard. If you want to get involved in this argument then do so. Your taunts/insults are awfully childish.Originally posted by Zeuodin
Just aweful tactic. You know the examples and you refute them with what? nothing. Orion is the one shown to fight Superman blow for blow. Superman is not a peer of DS in strength. Even if he was a peer, peer does not mean equal. It was STATED AND shown in Superman confidential and DOTNG that Orion was the physical equal of Superman. Why are you arguing against what was Shown on panel?

And what do you mean if she just traded blows with Konvict She'd lose? She did trade blows with Konvict. She didn't use any superspeed. Any shields. any tiaras. That is exactly what she did. And she stalemated him in his armored form and then she was the one who knocked the wind out of him. Why are you directly arguing against what was shown on panel? You are giving an opinon of what would have happened as if these fights hadn't already taken place? konvict was also getting more powerful and guess what? He couldn't KO Wonder Woman. The Superman Doomsday couldn't Ko wonder woman either. The only time we see wonder woman Ko'd is by trans tiered or skyfather level beings or when she's not fighting back.

Orion contained universal busting energy in the new gods book. gessh it's difficult to contain my composure when arguing with you. Sometimes I just want to keep ignoring you like I've been doing. Because in confidential that was ages ago as opposed to Supes doing much better in that regard. In death of the new gods Supes was described as Ds's physical peer not Orion. I think Supes is a lot more formidable physically than Ds. His showings and Ds's submission when his omegas failed while his total and complete reliance on this against Superman more than proves it.

She was ko'd by Superman in issue 219. Re entry woke her back up.

Which new gods book? You have a habit of exaggerating and I think this is another example. Please be specific.

Originally posted by Konton
He likes to use the word "peer" for the basis of his arguments.
A sign of preconceived notions and favoritism. Because that is un undebatable fact. She has the reflexes and the skills to fight characters more powerful than her. Strength wise she doesn't cut the mustard. The titans in this thread have her number.

Originally posted by tideoftime
You are completely ignoring the fact that Diana was holding back (as stated by her directly in the fight) as she wasn't wanting to harm Clark, but help him; you are also oblivious to the fact that, as a point of story/demonstration, Supes beating on her was to demonstrate to the reader how durable and resistant she had become over the years. Once she realized that she couldn't hold back anymore, as Supes would eventually kill her and she couldn't get the lasso on him (again -- a point of literary drama -- once she stunned him at the end of the Wyoming portion of the fight, she could have got the lasso on him, but that would not have been dramatic to the story), she started fighting back in earnest. Diana is perfectly capable of taking blows from Superman, Thor, Captain Marvel, and the like. Now, does she possess some of the other qualities of invulnerability that Superman has? No. She can be harmed by poisons (though she recovers very quickly -- when poisoned by full on cyanide in B&B #7, she was only slowed down, and recovered from it quickly), is not as resistant to radiation or electricity (though she is still very resistant and recovers fast) and can't hold her breath as long (though much longer than you might think -- 15-20 minutes casually, or upwards of an hour under duress, which is something she could do even Pre-Crisis).

Alrighty people, Happy Thanksgiving.

I'm out for the night... Supes also wasn't in his right state of mind. The point is she couldn't take his blows for very long and was already ko'd once. She used a cheapshot to get back into the fight and held back with her kicks right after she rang his ears and good.

Supes won't be staring around at trees in a forum fight looking for Diana nor will Thor or Marvel.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Orion heals the fastest from None Life Threating wounds. Mother box constatly heals New Gods in a fight. if they get seriously hurt they have to rest and take a while to heal them. But CM heals instantly from Life threatening wounds. he also has the stamina of atlas. Far more durable than the others IMO. Thor is durable to some extent. But not more than CM.



It's true healing ability is an important part of durabilty. However Thor seems to be the most durable in terms of being able to pierce or injure each one externally. Unless you count that digital comic recently in which Wolverine scratched Thor's outer surface. Awful writing though if you read it in it's entirety.

Originally posted by Konton
Quanchi is a retard.



No need for that...

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Actually she's very resistant to electricty. Check out her respect thread. And she's also resistant to radiation. They were in the nakedness of space nearly next to the sun. That's all kinds of radiation from the sun and what ever is bouncing around in space.

(Hadn't closed the window yet)

Ummm... that's what I said. She *is* resistant to those things, just not as resistant as Superman. Did you maybe misread my post?

I thought it was sleep time for you. Just couldn't put the thread down could you?

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you want to get involved in this argument then do so. Your taunts/insults are awfully childish. Because in confidential that was ages ago as opposed to Supes doing much better in that regard. In death of the new gods Supes was described as Ds's physical peer not Orion. I think Supes is a lot more formidable physically than Ds. His showings and Ds's submission when his omegas failed and total and complete reliance on this against Superman more than proves it.

She was ko'd by Superman in issue 219. Re entry woke her back up.

Which new gods book? You have a habit of exaggerating and I think this is another example. Please be specific.

Because that is un undebatable fact. She has the reflexes and the skills to fight characters more powerful than her. Strength wise she doesn't cut the mustard. The titans in this thread have her number.

Supes also wasn't in his right state of mind. The point is she couldn't take his blows for very long and was already ko'd once. She used a cheapshot to get back into the fight and held back with her kicks right after he rang his ears and good.

Supes won't be staring around at trees in a forum fight looking for Diana nor will Thor or Marvel.
Your argument falls to pieces. You know why? because you said earlier the only reason konvict could Ko superman was because he wasn't fighting back. Well I'm using your argument. the only reason wonder woman's wrist was broken and she was KO'd is because she wasn't fighting back. Superman was also near the sun. Sun amp. It was stated in DOTNG that SUPERMAN AND ORION were Peers in strength of DS. You are leaving that part out to suit your pathetic argument. You are also giving opinon again with no backing. Reflexes and Skill will not allow Wonder Woman to literally stand there and trade blows with Konvict. Nor would Reflexes and Skill allow her to stand toe to toe with CM and Superman Doomsday fusion. If Speed and Skill were all it took then Captain America could fight the Hulk all on his own. In a forum fight, Wonder Woman won't be trying to use krytonite to calm her friend down. She won't be holding back as stated right in the comic. She also won't do anything stupid like trying to lasso someone when the lasso can coil around it's victim on it's own.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Your argument falls to pieces. You know why? because you said earlier the only reason konvict could Ko superman was because he wasn't fighting back. Well I'm using your argument. the only reason wonder woman's wrist was broken and she was KO'd is because she wasn't fighting back. Superman was also near the sun. Sun amp. It was stated in DOTNG that SUPERMAN AND ORION were Peers in strength of DS. You are leaving that part out to suit your pathetic argument. You are also giving opinon again with no backing. Reflexes and Skill will not allow Wonder Woman to literally stand there and trade blows with Konvict. Nor would Reflexes and Skill allow her to stand toe to toe with CM and Superman Doomsday fusion. If Speed and Skill were all it took then Captain America could fight the Hulk all on his own. In a forum fight, Wonder Woman won't be trying to use krytonite to calm her friend down. She won't be holding back as stated right in the comic. She also won't do anything stupid like trying to lasso someone when the lasso can coil around it's victim on it's own. She was trying to defend herself. He snapped it. She didn't offer him her wrist? Supes offered his face and freely took the shot.


You can't even compare the two so please quit with this rather shaky comparison.

IT WASN'T STATED ORION WAS A PHYSICAL RIVAL. I don't twist facts on person to win people over to my side. his rage and his link to the astro force was described. That's why he can deal with Superman. I don't see him as strong as Superman nor do his showings support this.


I'm usually always right. Let this be a reminder, k.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/Scangstas-DOTNG2-p18-1.jpg


Captain America lacks the power to deal with the Hulk while WW is close enough in terms of power to hurt these characters. She just isn't durable enough to take as many hits as they can dish out.

None of the characters will also be foolishly standing there looking for her like Superman was in issue 219.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Supes also wasn't in his right state of mind. The point is she couldn't take his blows for very long and was already ko'd once. She used a cheapshot to get back into the fight and held back with her kicks right after he rang his ears and good.

Supes won't be staring around at trees in a forum fight looking for Diana nor will Thor or Marvel.

Right. Superman *wasn't* in his right state of mind: he was assaulting her in a manner more aggressive and over-the-top than he almost ever demonstrates, ever. He wasn't holding back anything, and was fighting to the death (in his mind). Diana *was* holding back, until it became obvious that doing so would be fatal. And Diana's use of her tiara/bracers is not a "cheap" shot, in any way, shape or form; it's one of her signature maneuvers (using the bracelets to enhance the effect of her blunt attacks, or her tiara as a lethal attack, as she has slain gods with her god-weopons -- Deimos being the first, and even Hermes' was nearly decapitated by her).

While I don't agree with the earlier post calling you a "retard", which is just uncalled for, I am re-evaluating my earlier assertion about the reasonableness of your debate; DC comics has been *officially* stating Diana as physically on par with Superman for over 10 years now. In what way do you think she isn't in that range? Now, is she as strong as Superman? No. And only WW fanbois think that. (And personally, I think Billy is marginally stronger than her, too, even though officially they are supposed to be equal, but anywho...). Is she as invulnerable/durable? No. But she is not *nearly* as far behind the curve as most people think, simply because they don't really follow her as a character.

(God, I am never getting to sleep, am I?)

Originally posted by quanchi112
She was trying to defend herself. He snapped it. She didn't offer him her wrist? Supes offered his face and freely took the shot.


You can't even compare the two so please quit with this rather shaky comparison.

IT WASN'T STATED ORION WAS A PHYSICAL RIVAL. I don't twist facts on person to win people over to my side. his rage and his link to the astro force was described. That's why he can deal with Superman. I don't see him as strong as Superman nor do his showings support this.


I'm usually always right. Let this be a reminder, k.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/Scangstas-DOTNG2-p18-1.jpg


Captain America lacks the power to deal with the Hulk while WW is close enough in terms of power to hurt these characters. She just isn't durable enough to take as many hits as they can dish out.

None of the characters will also be foolishly standing there looking for her like Superman was in issue 219.
Do you know how terrible of a debator you are? Orion gets his God powers from the Astro force. His astro force is what gives him his strength. My god you are terrible. You are not only not right, I've severly beaten you. You have no rebuttle against how Diana Stood up to Konvict using No skills, no speed, and no bracers. She literally stood there and traded blows with him in armored form. You have no rebuttle against her standing there trading blows with the Superman Doomsday merger and yet she was holding back then. You have no rebuttle to the fact that Oblivion knocked Superman out while they were fighting but he couldn't even sucker punch wonder woman. She literally was talking to him and he hit her out of the blue. Much like Konvict did superman. And yet Wonder Woman was unphased while Superman was Ko'd fighting oblivion. I have literally beaten the crap out of you in this debate. Your opinions don't count. you don't rebut what you cannot deal with. you skip over it. You try and go around. Orion is on Panel trading blows with Superman and you are saying he's using the Astro force? LOL. Of course it is what gives him his strenght. DS description of Orion doesn't have anything to do with the fight on panel. And if anything it only solidifies Orion as Superman's equal. DS is saying That Superman is his peer while Orion is the one on page stalemating Superman with nothing but hand to hand combat. You are not a good debator at all. I'm sorry.

No, Diana didn't "offer" her wrist -- she was trying to get close enough to entangle him in her lasso, so as to calm him rather than assault or kill him; strategically, if she had been fighting him as a mortal enemy, while aware of his power, she would not allow herself to be in that vulnerable position. *That* is what you are missing.

And once he did snap her wrist (which wasn't a casual thing, as he had already grabbed with force and malice in the previous panel without it breaking; he vented the pain of her blocking his blow then hitting him upside his jaw by crushing down on her wrist, which snapped... as it should, even if she had been a kryptonian, herself) she stopped holding back, dodged his attacks, and stunned him. And with the proper tactical thought of a friend/someone not wanting to harm/kill her friend, she didn't persue the assault, but took advantage of the moment to return back to deal with the *real* problem in the situation...

You *totally* missed the point of the entire battle.

Oblivion Sucker punches Wonder Woman
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/fangirl102/glcof14wwdurability5iy.jpg

While in the middle of fighting the entire JLA Superman is KO'd while Wonder Woman is Still up fighting.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/33/1228375_830x1238.jpg

Makes you wonder how people can question whether she can trade blows with any high tiered hero.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Right. Superman *wasn't* in his right state of mind: he was assaulting her in a manner more aggressive and over-the-top than he almost ever demonstrates, ever. He wasn't holding back anything, and was fighting to the death (in his mind). Diana *was* holding back, until it became obvious that doing so would be fatal. And Diana's use of her tiara/bracers is not a "cheap" shot, in any way, shape or form; it's one of her signature maneuvers (using the bracelets to enhance the effect of her blunt attacks, or her tiara as a lethal attack, as she has slain gods with her god-weopons -- Deimos being the first, and even Hermes' was nearly decapitated by her).

While I don't agree with the earlier post calling you a "retard", which is just uncalled for, I am re-evaluating my earlier assertion about the reasonableness of your debate; DC comics has been *officially* stating Diana as physically on par with Superman for over 10 years now. In what way do you think she isn't in that range? Now, is she as strong as Superman? No. And only WW fanbois think that. (And personally, I think Billy is marginally stronger than her, too, even though officially they are supposed to be equal, but anywho...). Is she as invulnerable/durable? No. But she is not *nearly* as far behind the curve as most people think, simply because they don't really follow her as a character.

(God, I am never getting to sleep, am I?) She was still hiding from Superman and couldn't take him on directly. If it wasn't for re entry who knows if she would have woken up. She cut Clark's throat after he caught up with her. Fleeing the scene isn't a viable tactic on this board.

I see WW very closely behind Superman/Marvel, etc. But she still wouldn't be in their class and if she doesn't fight a near perfect fight she loses.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Do you know how terrible of a debator you are? Orion gets his God powers from the Astro force. His astro force is what gives him his strength. My god you are terrible. You are not only not right, I've severly beaten you. You have no rebuttle against how Diana Stood up to Konvict using No skills, no speed, and no bracers. She literally stood there and traded blows with him in armored form. You have no rebuttle against her standing there trading blows with the Superman Doomsday merger and yet she was holding back then. You have no rebuttle to the fact that Oblivion knocked Superman out while they were fighting but he couldn't even sucker punch wonder woman. She literally was talking to him and he hit her out of the blue. Much like Konvict did superman. And yet Wonder Woman was unphased while Superman was Ko'd fighting oblivion. I have literally beaten the crap out of you in this debate. Your opinions don't count. you don't rebut what you cannot deal with. you skip over it. You try and go around. Orion is on Panel trading blows with Superman and you are saying he's using the Astro force? LOL. Of course it is what gives him his strenght. DS description of Orion doesn't have anything to do with the fight on panel. And if anything it only solidifies Orion as Superman's equal. DS is saying That Superman is his peer while Orion is the one on page stalemating Superman with nothing but hand to hand combat. You are not a good debator at all. I'm sorry. No, you are wrong. Supes was described as his rival not Orion. You were wrong.

Moving on. Orion's rage and his powers make him a virtual equal with Supes, but if Supes cut loose and they had it out he'd be the last man standing. His feats and even his battles with Darkseid show Orion up.

Orion was also held as a reserve against a very paranoid Superman. They said holding him in surprise at that critical juncture was their best bet. If they were equals they wouldn't have to wait until Supes was already fighting everyone else would they? Nope.

WW got her wrist snapped and was temporarily ko'd. If Supes hits her as hard as he can the fight won't last long. Same thing for any of these other characters. The only reason Supes struggled to do so was because she was hiding and he was seething with rage.

Orion can trade blows with Superman, but he will need to rely on his astro force to stand a chance. Supes is a physical rival to Ds in Ds's own words not Orion.

I'm a great debater. It's spelled with an e not an o by the way.

You're being rediculous.

if anyone doubts Wonder Woman's strength, this is one of her greatest Strength feats Ever. She literally pulls Martian Manhutner out of a freaking black hole. That is Top tier Strength period. hands down.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/33/1228373_790x1248.jpg

Originally posted by quanchi112
She was still hiding from Superman and couldn't take him on directly. If it wasn't for re entry who knows if she would have woken up. She cut Clark's throat after he caught up with her. Fleeing the scene isn't a viable tactic on this board.

I see WW very closely behind Superman/Marvel, etc. But she still wouldn't be in their class and if she doesn't fight a near perfect fight she loses.

No, you are wrong. Supes was described as his rival not Orion. You were wrong.

Moving on. Orion's rage and his powers make him a virtual equal with Supes, but if Supes cut loose and they had it out he'd be the last man standing. His feats and even his battles with Darkseid show Orion up.

Orion was also held as a reserve against a very paranoid Superman. They said holding him in surprise at that critical juncture was their best bet. If they were equals they wouldn't have to wait until Supes was already fighting everyone else would they? Nope.

WW got her wrist snapped and was temporarily ko'd. If Supes hits her as hard as he can the fight won't last long. Same thing for any of these other characters. The only reason Supes struggled to do so was because she was hiding and he was seething with rage.

Orion can trade blows with Superman, but he will need to rely on his astro force to stand a chance. Supes is a physical rival to Ds in Ds's own words not Orion.

I'm a great debater. It's spelled with an e not an o by the way.

You're being rediculous. actually you are a terrible debater and everything you said was aweful. let me explain. Orion's Rage is calmed by his mother box. So your reasoning of why he can stand toe to toe with supers falls flat on it's ass. I can be enraged all I want but that doesn't make me be able to stand up to bruce lee. Also Orion didn't use his Astro force. DS was decribing Orion. He wasn't taking about the fight that was happening. What don't you get about that? Also, Superman/Doomsday merger was stronger than superman and he hit her many times and she didn't get ko'd. The only reason she got ko'd is because she wasn't fighting superman and he was sun amped. Why won't you admit that? How the hell was she hiding from Superman in the middle of space? That is almost 1st graderish in it's entirety. Oh and if you didn't know, in a forum fight, Wonder Woman's wrist would have healed instantly because she can bond to the earth and repair wounds.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
actually you are a terrible debater and everything you said was aweful. let me explain. Orion's Rage is calmed by his mother box. So your reasoning of why he can stand toe to toe with supers falls flat on it's ass. I can be enraged all I want but that doesn't make me be able to stand up to bruce lee. Also Orion didn't use his Astro force. DS was decribing Orion. He wasn't taking about the fight that was happening. What don't you get about that? Also, Superman/Doomsday merger was stronger than superman and he hit her many times and she didn't get ko'd. The only reason she got ko'd is because she wasn't fighting superman and he was sun amped. Why won't you admit that? How the hell was she hiding from Superman in the middle of space? That is almost 1st graderish in it's entirety. Oh and if you didn't know, in a forum fight, Wonder Woman's wrist would have healed instantly because she can bond to the earth and repair wounds. He was describing what both characters can bring to the table. With Orion io's rage and the astro force while with Superman he's an absolute physical powerhouse. I got it. Why didn't you?

She was ko'd. Re entry woke her up. She hid from Superman later after her wrist was snapped.

She actually says he's so strong. The girl can't take too many punches from Superman and don't forget to mention the part about her getting out k-nite.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WonderWomanv221912.jpg


She gets a free cheapshot and then holds back, barely.

Who says she is fighting on the earth for one.

Durability wise, I think she is the last of the four. Actually just a tad if any. That is not to say she can't trade blows with a top tier. She is last not by much. I think a big reason Wondy usually has showings of taking blows from top tiers stems from the fact that she is a superior combatant when compared to many of her oponents. I'm guessing it's understood by many that she can "roll" with the punches as to not absorb them in their full strength. Now if she just flat out trades blows like Superman for example (Supes just loves to try and walk through all punches) she probably can't stand up to the three in a flat out blow for blow.

With Diana's bracers, I'd say she's got the edge on durability. >_>

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was describing what both characters can bring to the table. With Orion io's rage and the astro force while with Superman he's an absolute physical powerhouse. I got it. Why didn't you?

She was ko'd. Re entry woke her up. She hid from Superman later after her wrist was snapped.

She actually says he's so strong. The girl can't take too many punches from Superman and don't forget to mention the part about her getting out k-nite.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WonderWomanv221912.jpg


She gets a free cheapshot and then hold back, barely.

Who says she is fighting on the earth for one.
Dude. You are just terrible. DS is describing each of his opponents. He isn't describing why they are stalemating. You make me wanna curse you are such aweful. In the fight Orion is not using his Astro force and his mother box is calming his rage. So obviously he isn't using his rage. You argument thus falls flat on it's pathetic ass. It is pathetic you know.

She does say he is so strong. So this is what Superman has to say about Wonder woman. since we are taking what characters say into account.
He says they are even in power
http://img79.imageshack.us/i/jla96196qa.jpg/

Here she trades blows with Superman
http://img74.imageshack.us/i/jla96188xe.jpg/


In wonder woman 174 superman says Diana and Captain marvel punch the same. Should I keep going or are you embarrassed enough yet?

Originally posted by quanchi112
She was still hiding from Superman and couldn't take him on directly. If it wasn't for re entry who knows if she would have woken up. She cut Clark's throat after he caught up with her. Fleeing the scene isn't a viable tactic on this board.

I see WW very closely behind Superman/Marvel, etc. But she still wouldn't be in their class and if she doesn't fight a near perfect fight she loses.

No, you are wrong. Supes was described as his rival not Orion. You were wrong.

Moving on. Orion's rage and his powers make him a virtual equal with Supes, but if Supes cut loose and they had it out he'd be the last man standing. His feats and even his battles with Darkseid show Orion up.

Orion was also held as a reserve against a very paranoid Superman. They said holding him in surprise at that critical juncture was their best bet. If they were equals they wouldn't have to wait until Supes was already fighting everyone else would they? Nope.

WW got her wrist snapped and was temporarily ko'd. If Supes hits her as hard as he can the fight won't last long. Same thing for any of these other characters. The only reason Supes struggled to do so was because she was hiding and he was seething with rage.

Orion can trade blows with Superman, but he will need to rely on his astro force to stand a chance. Supes is a physical rival to Ds in Ds's own words not Orion.

I'm a great debater. It's spelled with an e not an o by the way.

You're being rediculous.

HIDING?

What the f#ck are you talking about?

She moved out of sight while he was about to attack, and got him from behind -- all that took place in "bullet time", from our mortal POV, as it would take no time for him to track her heart beat, which means it took only a second or so for that to occur. That it was displayed over a few panels was for story/presentation reasons. And before you even think about debating that, remember that the entire encounter, from his pushing her out of where Lord was, to her returning back to Lord, took place in 1 minute, 53 seconds (as per Lord relating that from Brother Eye's tracking them). Also, once Diana had Clark stunned, she could have immobilized or killed him with her weopons, but that wasn't her goal at that point, as she didn't want to kill him and realized that unless she dealt with Lord, this wasn't going to end, and therefore went back to deal with him.

And as far as Diana dying in space, (or similar situation, for example), well DUH. Her being put through what Superman did was to demostrate how TOUGH she is, and what kind of beating she can take, which should have been a wake up call for more casual readers that "geez, Wonder Woman is a lot tougher than I ever remember Linda Carter being...", and not to drive home what weaknesses or circumstances she is still vulnerable to. I mean, seriously, we know she can't survive in space for any protracted period; that's like shoving a kryptonite pole up Clark's ass and saying "See -- he ain't all that tough"...

And Zeuodin is right: nothing of what you are saying is actually helping your debate. The Orion/Superman scan you brought up -- and your comments concerning it -- do show clearly that subtext and layering of a scene is pretty lost on you.

(Not attacking you, personally, or being mean... just I find your lack of perspective disturbing, as unlike most generic fanbois who just post crap left-right-and-center, you seem more potentially reasonable; that makes this flaw of perception all the more grating...)

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Durability wise, I think she is the last of the four. Actually just a tad if any. That is not to say she can't trade blows with a top tier. She is last not by much. I think a big reason Wondy usually has showings of taking blows from top tiers stems from the fact that she is a superior combatant when compared to many of her oponents. I'm guessing it's understood by many that she can "roll" with the punches as to not absorb them in their full strength. Now if she just flat out trades blows like Superman for example (Supes just loves to try and walk through all punches) she probably can't stand up to the three in a flat out blow for blow. She stood up to konvict, and Oblivion. Both of whom Ko'd superman.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
A few corrections. Orion is the Strongest person in the fight. He's the exact physical match Of Superman. He's stale mated Superman a few times in hand to hand. And he can one shot Superman with his AF force. He can also amp his strength and punches with the Af without using his harness. He also is superfast as when he pretended to be Mister Miracle for awhile Using all of Miracles skill and acrobatics. And Diana Does have two energy attacks. One she calls a soul burn. She also has the Godwave which is some kind of energy and stats amp at the same time. CM and Thor are a match for Superman physically to CM have matched SM in strength numerous times and have knocked him out. Plus CM is superfast and Thor is superfast when need be so how is Orion stronger just because he can match Superman. Team 1 for the win

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Orion has fought Superman hand to hand a few times and they always stalemate. He is Superman's Physical Equal.

So have CM while holding back like he always does especially against SM. And yes I know SM holds back also.

Originally posted by D-Block
CM and Thor are a match for Superman physically to CM have matched SM in strength numerous times and have knocked him out. Plus CM is superfast and Thor is superfast when need be so how is Orion stronger just because he can match Superman. Team 1 for the win
Thor is no where near super Fast like CM or Orion. Thor is a slug compared To wonder woman who is faster than everyone on the field. Superman has already stated in wonder woman 174 that CM and Wonder Woman punch the same. Read it and weep.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
She stood up to konvict, and Oblivion. Both of whom Ko'd superman.




Yeah but KO'd as in utterly beat down? I dont consider it a ko if he gets up a couple panels later.

Superman thinks to himself so it's not hyperbole

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/fangirl102/th_wonderwoman_174_13.jpg

Zeuodin: I think you should have also linked the page right before, where Supes donkey-punched Diana in the back of the head, with it just knocking her to the ground and having her look up at him with the "WTF?" look (which is on the following page, which you also posted). It shows how she can take blunt attacks from such people practically as well as they can, themselves... (I remember all this debate back then, too, when more fanbois who didn't get how Diana had evolved over time were like "Hunh? Why isn't she dead?" and similar statements of ignorance...)

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Yeah but KO'd as in utterly beat down? I dont consider it a ko if he gets up a couple panels later. The point is, she wasn't Ko'd by either.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Thor is no where near super Fast like CM or Orion. Thor is a slug compared To wonder woman who is faster than everyone on the field. Superman has already stated in wonder woman 174 that CM and Wonder Woman punch the same. Read it and weep.






Thor has beaten foes who have "superspeed" greater than or equal to say like a Wondy. He is always shown to up his ability when fighting opponents with speed. Has easily shown superhuman reflexes many a time. Has beaten Gladiator in a straight up match for example. Gladiator has "superspeed". Opponents also have to deal with that darned hammer of his. It helps him versus speedsters since he can control it to go FTL!

Originally posted by D-Block
So have CM while holding back like he always does especially against SM. And yes I know SM holds back also. Orion fought a sun amped Superman who'd bitched the entire JLA. CM has never fought a sun amped Superman. It was Orion who was held in reserve.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Thor has beaten foes who have "superspeed" greater than or equal to say like a Wondy. He is always shown to up his ability when fighting opponents with speed. Has easily shown superhuman reflexes many a time. Has beaten Gladiator in a straight up match for example. Gladiator has "superspeed". Opponents also have to deal with that darned hammer of his. It helps him versus speedsters since he can control it to go FTL!
And we all know Colossus and hulk must have Superspeed too because they also fought Gladiator.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Zeuodin: I think you should have also linked the page right before, where Supes donkey-punched Diana in the back of the head, with it just knocking her to the ground and having her look up at him with the "WTF?" look (which is on the following page, which you also posted). It shows how she can take blunt attacks from such people practically as well as they can, themselves... (I remember all this debate back then, too, when more fanbois who didn't get how Diana had evolved over time were like "Hunh? Why isn't she dead?" and similar statements of ignorance...)



That is a pretty impressive showing. Back of the head?? Geez! I saw that somewhere, can't remember where.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Thor is no where near super Fast like CM or Orion. Thor is a slug compared To wonder woman who is faster than everyone on the field. Superman has already stated in wonder woman 174 that CM and Wonder Woman punch the same. Read it and weep.

CM already matched SM in Strength to read that and weep and Superman said H2H CM has the advantage.

Originally posted by D-Block
CM already matched SM in Strength to read that and weep and Superman said H2H CM has the advantage. atlas also had the advantage over superman. Surprise surprise. It was because he was magical.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
And we all know Colossus and hulk must have Superspeed too because they also foguth Gladiator.





I doubt they can beat him straight up though. Now hulk on the other hand is kinda funny how he is portrayed from time to time. it's pretty much understood that when having class 100 str, you gotta have some degree of superhuman speed. This goes for all bricks without the use of flight and such. If your leg can press waaaay over 100 tons, there is no way in hell you can be a slug!!!! If you go by in proportion to most bruiser's weight, there has to be some degree of superspeed. Now if you are class 100 and weigh over 1000 tons, you lose speed there. Writers always play this game with readers. Spiderman easily dodges Hulk's blow etc. etc. THat's only because it's hard to tip toe through a match like that. In reality, spiderman should be dead in a few min. Hell, less than a minute if just one blow connects. Then they have Hulk fighting foes that have the "speed" advantage and always seems to rise above the "slug" concept.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I doubt they can beat him straight up though. Now hulk on the other hand is kinda funny how he is portrayed from time to time. it's pretty much understood that when having class 100 str, you gotta have some degree of superhuman speed. This goes for all bricks without the use of flight and such. If your leg can press waaaay over 100 tons, there is no way in hell you can be a slug!!!! If you go by in proportion to most bruiser's weight, there has to be some degree of superspeed. Now if you are class 100 and weigh over 1000 tons, you lose speed there. I'm basically saying Thor fighting Gladiator isn't indicative of any Superspeed reflex or sustained movement.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
That is a pretty impressive showing. Back of the head?? Geez! I saw that somewhere, can't remember where.

The links that Zeuodin posted on the last page, with the vampire controlling Superman, and two pages of Diana and him battling. The one page starts with Diana on the ground looking up a Clark, with a serious "WTF?" look -- on the page before that, he had just whammed her by surprise, from behind, with a donkey-punch right to the back of the skull, and she wasn't even stunned (hurt, I am sure, and with a lump there, no doubt, but far from anything serious).

EDIT: The page I am referring to is the one *not* posted; it's before the two he did post, which is the one where she gets hit by surprise. Just clarifying.

Originally posted by tideoftime
The links that Zeuodin posted on the last page, with the vampire controlling Superman, and two pages of Diana and him battling. The one page starts with Diana on the ground looking up a Clark, with a serious "WTF?" look -- on the page before that, he had just whammed her by surprise, from behind, with a donkey-punch right to the back of the skull, and she wasn't even stunned (hurt, I am sure, and with a lump there, no doubt, but far from anything serious).
Superman Sucker Punches Diana in the back of the head while she's not even ready or looking

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/509/jla96174us.jpg

It doesn't hurt or knock her out.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/452/jla96188xe.jpg

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Dude. You are just terrible. DS is describing each of his opponents. He isn't describing why they are stalemating. You make me wanna curse you are such aweful. In the fight Orion is not using his Astro force and his mother box is calming his rage. So obviously he isn't using his rage. You argument thus falls flat on it's pathetic ass. It is pathetic you know.

She does say he is so strong. So this is what Superman has to say about Wonder woman. since we are taking what characters say into account.
He says they are even in power
http://img79.imageshack.us/i/jla96196qa.jpg/

Here she trades blows with Superman
http://img74.imageshack.us/i/jla96188xe.jpg/


In wonder woman 174 superman says Diana and Captain marvel punch the same. Should I keep going or are you embarrassed enough yet? He was describing what makes them formidable. Saying dude you are a terrible is showing me I am inside your head and has no place here.

I was describing what Orion would need to do to best Supes. If he thinks he is as strong as supes and wants to beat him that way it ain't happenin.


There are all kinds of statements going back and forth. We have seen Supes' fists ko WW. Has WW ever beaten him?


Marvel is his exact equal when they match up while WW isn't. That trumps these bogus statements of yours. WW's own words he's so strong. That doesn't support your stance that they are equal.

In your own scan Supes puts her down. LOL. That doesn't bode well for your argument. The fight I am referencing is WW taking an all out Superman punch. It wrecks her.


Originally posted by tideoftime
HIDING?

What the f#ck are you talking about?

She moved out of sight while he was about to attack, and got him from behind -- all that took place in "bullet time", from our mortal POV, as it would take no time for him to track her heart beat, which means it took only a second or so for that to occur. That it was displayed over a few panels was for story/presentation reasons. And before you even think about debating that, remember that the entire encounter, from his pushing her out of where Lord was, to her returning back to Lord, took place in 1 minute, 53 seconds (as per Lord relating that from Brother Eye's tracking them). Also, once Diana had Clark stunned, she could have immobilized or killed him with her weopons, but that wasn't her goal at that point, as she didn't want to kill him and realized that unless she dealt with Lord, this wasn't going to end, and therefore went back to deal with him.

And as far as Diana dying in space, (or similar situation, for example), well DUH. Her being put through what Superman did was to demostrate how TOUGH she is, and what kind of beating she can take, which should have been a wake up call for more casual readers that "geez, Wonder Woman is a lot tougher than I ever remember Linda Carter being...", and not to drive home what weaknesses or circumstances she is still vulnerable to. I mean, seriously, we know she can't survive in space for any protracted period; that's like shoving a kryptonite pole up Clark's ass and saying "See -- he ain't all that tough"...

And Zeuodin is right: nothing of what you are saying is actually helping your debate. The Orion/Superman scan you brought up -- and your comments concerning it -- do show clearly that subtext and layering of a scene is pretty lost on you.

(Not attacking you, personally, or being mean... just I find your lack of perspective disturbing, as unlike most generic fanbois who just post crap left-right-and-center, you seem more potentially reasonable; that makes this flaw of perception all the more grating...) She crept up behind him. Lord was feeding him images so he would still believe it was DD. The only reason supes was left open to this cheapshot and unaware of her location was because of his state of mind. How you don't get it and how you underscore Superman here is beyond me. Bottom line is she can't take on Superman and trade blows as he is stronger.

The same goes for Thor and Marvel.

She used k-nite, was ko'd once already, and had her wrist easily broken. If anything it makers her durability look worse. Supes doesn't easily ko Marvel and snap his wrists when they get into it. Wow.

Zeuodin claimed Ds stated Orion was a physical peer to Ds while he only stated Superman was.


I could care less about you two WW fans agreeing when I am 100 percent correct in my assessment.Originally posted by Zeuodin
Thor is no where near super Fast like CM or Orion. Thor is a slug compared To wonder woman who is faster than everyone on the field. Superman has already stated in wonder woman 174 that CM and Wonder Woman punch the same. Read it and weep. No, he isn't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was describing what makes them formidable. Saying dude you are a terrible is showing me I am inside your head and has no place here.

I was describing what Orion would need to do to best Supes. If he thinks he is as strong as supes and wants to beat him that way it ain't happenin.


There are all kinds of statements going back and forth. We have seen Supes' fists ko WW. Has WW ever beaten him?


Marvel is his exact equal when they match up while WW isn't. That trumps these bogus statements of yours. WW's own words he's so strong. That doesn't support your stance that they are equal.

In your own scan Supes puts her down. LOL. That doesn't bode well for your argument. The fight I am referencing is WW taking an all out Superman punch. It wrecks her.


She crept up behind him. Lord was feeding him images so he would still believe it was DD. The only reason supes was left open to this cheapshot and unaware of her location was because of his state of mind. How you don't get it and how you underscore Superman here is beyond me. Bottom line is she can't take on Superman and trade blows as he is stronger.

The same goes for Thor and Marvel.

She used k-nite, was ko'd once already, and had her wrist easily broken. If anything it makers her durability look worse. Supes doesn't easily ko Marvel and snap his wrists when they get into it. Wow.

Zeuodin claimed Ds stated Orion was a physical peer to Ds while he only stated Superman was.


I could care less about you two WW fans agreeing when I am 100 percent correct in my assessment. No, he isn't. You are giving opinions. Your refutes aren't refutes. They suck. clearly. You twist what is on panel to suit you and use character references to hold up your own theories while when i use the same tactic you all in the same breath dismiss them. terrible debater. I'm done with you. i have clearly kicked your ass. You won't even address the scans and post that clearly pwn you. You have no statement about the fact that she pulled martian Manhunter out of a ****ing black hole. do you know how strong you have to be? black Holes chew galaxies.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Orion fought a sun amped Superman who'd bitched the entire JLA. CM has never fought a sun amped Superman. It was Orion who was held in reserve. When?Originally posted by Zeuodin
I'm basically saying Thor fighting Gladiator isn't indicative of any Superspeed reflex or sustained movement. Gladiator did use his speed throughout the fight. When Thor quit holding back he stomped Gladiator. Gladiator was out to stop Thor at all costs.Originally posted by Zeuodin
Superman Sucker Punches Diana in the back of the head while she's not even ready or looking

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/509/jla96174us.jpg

It doesn't hurt or knock her out.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/452/jla96188xe.jpg Supes didn't rare back or anything for that punch. Don't get me wrong it's impressive but he is mindcontrolled again. When he punched her and good in ww 219 she was temporarily ko'd.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Superman Sucker Punches Diana in the back of the head while she's not even ready or looking

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/509/jla96174us.jpg

It doesn't hurt or knock her out.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/452/jla96188xe.jpg




Ah ok it pretty impressive. Not as impressive as i initially thought because it looks like he didn't put much weight or momentum into that punch. Impressive nonetheless because that's Supes! Plus it was directily at the back of her head. That would KO almost anyone.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Superman Sucker Punches Diana in the back of the head while she's not even ready or looking

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/509/jla96174us.jpg

It doesn't hurt or knock her out.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/452/jla96188xe.jpg

I think you and I just use different wording/phrasing: when I say "hurt", I mean I am certain that it was not a pleasant sensation, and not that she was "hurt", as perhaps meaning wounded, et al...

Originally posted by Zeuodin
You are giving opinions. Your refutes aren't refutes. They suck. clearly. You twist what is on panel to suit you and use character references to hold up your own theories while when i use the same tactic you all in the same breath dismiss them. terrible debater. I'm done with you. i have clearly kicked your ass. You won't even address the scans and post that clearly pwn you. You have no statement about the fact that she pulled martian Manhunter out of a ****ing black hole. do you know how strong you have to be? black Holes chew galaxies. It's an impressive feat and I don't dispute the fact she is strong, but the point is Superman has exceeded her best. No matter how bad you want her to be in this elite crowd she isn't there yet and her showings don't prove as much.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When? Gladiator did use his speed throughout the fight. When Thor quit holding back he stomped Gladiator. Gladiator was out to stop Thor at all costs. Supes didn't rare back or anything for that punch. Don't get me wrong it's impressive but he is mindcontrolled again. When he punched her and good in ww 219 she was temporarily ko'd. He was sun amped and angry. She wasn't fighting back. Anyone else would be killed by a punch like that. You are insufferable.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Ah ok it pretty impressive. Not as impressive as i initially thought because it looks like he didn't put much weight or momentum into that punch. Impressive nonetheless because that's Supes! Plus it was directily at the back of her head. That would KO almost anyone. Exactly. It was like there was no momentum whatsoever in that punch, but it's still kinda impressive.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
He was sun amped and angry. She wasn't fighting back. Anyone else would be killed by a punch like that. You are insufferable. She was fighting back or else she'd have been in the sun. It's like you didn't even read it. She also whipped out k-nite and the writer didn't seem to be going for the whole sun amp thing.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Exactly. It was like there was no momentum whatsoever in that punch, but it's still kinda impressive.
This punch has lots of momentum

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/fangirl102/glcof14wwdurability5iy.jpg


Here Superman rushes in to fight the same guy

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/33/1228373_790x1248.jpg

And here he is Ko'd

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/33/1228375_830x1238.jpg

Diana tanked a punch from a guy that Ko'd Superman in less than a panel.

Originally posted by quanchi112
She was fighting back or else she'd have been in the sun. It's like you didn't even read it. She also whipped out k-nite and the writer didn't seem to be going for the whole sun amp thing.
Superman gets sun amped while near the sun. That is common knowlege. She was holding back. She was trying to get the k-nite out. That isn't fighting back to me if she's trying to pull out K-nite. Ug.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When? Gladiator did use his speed throughout the fight. When Thor quit holding back he stomped Gladiator. Gladiator was out to stop Thor at all costs. Supes didn't rare back or anything for that punch. Don't get me wrong it's impressive but he is mindcontrolled again. When he punched her and good in ww 219 she was temporarily ko'd.

*staring blankly at the screen, incredulous*

Yes, he is mind-controlled again... that means he is not holding back, as Count Chochula certainly isn't out to be kind.

And of course the blow he delivers isn't nearly what he delivered, full-on deathrage, empowered by the sun, during the Lord fight... why/how could it be?

Yeah... Zeuodin is right. You ignore what you don't like, and have (as I put it) no ability to read properly into what is presented and relate it in any proper manner to other materials/correlations.

Very disappointing... I was almost agreeing with you on some other posts in other threads... I will have to reconsider that now, as unlike with Zeuodin, I don't think I can place any trust in your references/opinions, as even when you post scans/links of your own, you misread them to a disturbing degree...

Originally posted by Zeuodin
This punch has lots of momentum

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/fangirl102/glcof14wwdurability5iy.jpg


Here Superman rushes in to fight the same guy

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/33/1228373_790x1248.jpg

And here he is Ko'd

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/33/1228375_830x1238.jpg

Diana tanked a punch from a guy that Ko'd Superman in less than a panel. That's more impressive. But it still doesn't suggest she can take a hard hammer shot from Thor nor a magical whammy by Marvel.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Superman gets sun amped while near the sun. That is common knowlege. She was holding back. She was trying to get the k-nite out. That isn't fighting back to me if she's trying to pull out K-nite. Ug. Not all writers recognize this. K-nite also weakens him and she got it out. So take your pick cuz either way he wasn't charged up like in superman/batman.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Superman gets sun amped while near the sun. That is common knowlege. She was holding back. She was trying to get the k-nite out. That isn't fighting back to me if she's trying to pull out K-nite. Ug.

More accurately, she was *resisting*, certainly, and not just going "Oh, please throw me into the sun -- my tan is fading..."

She wasn't *fighting back* in the sense of all-out bloodrage, like Superman was displaying...

I am new here -- is quanchi always like this?

Originally posted by tideoftime
More accurately, she was *resisting*, certainly, and not just going "Oh, please throw me into the sun -- my tan is fading..."

She wasn't *fighting back* in the sense of all-out bloodrage, like Superman was displaying...

I am new here -- is quanchi always like this? She was fighting back or else she would be in the sun. If she wasn't fighting back or trying to avoid this then why would she be desperately searching for the k-nite?

Are you always like this? Zeuodin's been here a month.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's more impressive. But it still doesn't suggest she can take a hard hammer shot from Thor nor a magical whammy by Marvel.

Not all writers recognize this. K-nite also weakens him and she got it out. So take your pick cuz either way he wasn't charged up like in superman/batman.

The k-nite didn't have time to really kick-in; it was only a small piece, and he punched her before there was time for it to appreciably affect him.

Obviously.

You are really not getting any of this, are you?

And no, I am not trying to be a smartass, nor be mean; if you could hear me, and my tone of voice, you'd be able to tell that I am just absolutely amazed that subtextual writing is this lost on you. Seriously.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's more impressive. But it still doesn't suggest she can take a hard hammer shot from Thor nor a magical whammy by Marvel.

Not all writers recognize this. K-nite also weakens him and she got it out. So take your pick cuz either way he wasn't charged up like in superman/batman.
magical whammy from Marvel? Looks like she gave him one of her own.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/10/1228285_500x742.jpg

Is Thor's hammer going to do more dmg than an angry Zeus?
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/58/1228495_922x1376.jpg


here CM hits Wonder Woman with force and of course as I showed you in the first panel, It didn't even phase her

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/50/1228450_500x735.jpg

Thor's hammer isn't going to hit any harder than Zooms light speed Kicks. Diana was blind and couldn't even brace for those attacks. And she's literally still concious.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/01/06/1228560_bigthumb.jpg

Originally posted by tideoftime
The k-nite didn't have time to really kick-in; it was only a small piece, and he punched her before there was time for it to appreciably affect him.

Obviously.

You are really not getting any of this, are you?

And no, I am not trying to be a smartass, nor be mean; if you could hear me, and my tone of voice, you'd be able to tell that I am just absolutely amazed that subtextual writing is this lost on you. Seriously. I have gotten all of it. You back WW to the point of absurdity. You want to say Supes was amped and completely dismiss the k-nite. You want to pretend WW didn't fight back at all.


She barely held back after she cheapshotted him and took advantage of his senses.

Really, it's obvious to me you are a huge WW fan and live in your own world. Seriously.

Originally posted by quanchi112
She was fighting back or else she would be in the sun. If she wasn't fighting back or trying to avoid this then why would she be desperately searching for the k-nite?

Are you always like this? Zeuodin's been here a month.

I have been here just a couple days, which is revealing enough for me to know that you're opinion/perception of things is highly questionable.

And she was searching for the k-nite so as to try to subdue him...

Dude... seriously...

Are you just being this way to have something to do, or are you just not that good a interpreting story/writing presentation? I mean, this isn't Shakespeare -- most of the imagery and allusions of style aren't that hard to "read" (that is, understand contextually)...

Not trying to sound aggressive, but... I mean...

REALLY? SERIOUSLY?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
magical whammy from Marvel? Looks like she gave him one of her own.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/10/1228285_500x742.jpg

Is Thor's hammer going to do more dmg than an angry Zeus?
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/58/1228495_922x1376.jpg


here CM hits Wonder Woman with force and of course as I showed you in the first panel, It didn't even phase her

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/50/1228450_500x735.jpg

Thor's hammer isn't going to hit any harder than Zooms light speed Kicks. Diana was blind and couldn't even brace for those attacks. And she's literally still concious.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/01/06/1228560_bigthumb.jpg Yes, she avoids his punch and uses her skill. This is what she needs to do to keep herself in the fight. At the end of your scan we see what a Marvel punch can do to her. LOL.

Thor's hammer is going to hit a lot harder than that imo. In masterson's hands it almost killed Gladiator. He was a noob at the time with his powers.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, she avoids his punch and uses her skill. This is what she needs to do to keep herself in the fight. At the end of your scan we see what a Marvel punch can do to her. LOL.

Thor's hammer is going to hit a lot harder than that imo. In masterson's hands it almost killed Gladiator. He was a noob at the time with his powers. You are so slow at times. The last scan is page 24. he didn't even Ko her. She is up fighting on page 32 in the first scan. His powerful punch did nothing. She avoided his punch because she is smart. if he were smart he would have avoided her kick. which did just as much dmg to him. Or didn't you pay attention to that? You didn't. let me remind you. she hurt him when she kicked him. Thor's hammer is going to hit harder than Zooms punches in your opinoin? that's really all you have isn't it? I've shown that she can dish out and take punishment on the level of Thor and Superman and you give opinions. it's in your opinion this and that. I've literally beaten the crap out of you in every thread.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
You are so slow at times. The last scan is page 24. he didn't even Ko her. She is up fighting on page 32 in the first scan. His powerful punch did nothing. She avoided his punch because she is smart. if he were smart he would have avoided her kick. which did just as much dmg to him. Or didn't you pay attention to that? You didn't. let me remind you. she hurt him when she kicked him. Thor's hammer is going to hit harder than Zooms punches in your opinoin? that's really all you have isn't it? I've shown that she can dish out and take punishment on the level of Thor and Superman and you give opinions. it's in your opinion this and that. I've literally beaten the crap out of you in every thread. The point is his punch obviously affected her moreso than her kick affected him.

She needs to roll to avoid damage here because he's stronger than her. My opinion is still right as it always was.

Thor's hammer has inflicted pain on Galactus. The first feelings of pain in quite a long time to boot. Are you comparing WW to Galactus?



The hammer quickly put down Glads in Thor's hands when he quit holding back. The hammer annihilated the Surfer who is far more durable than WW. I mean seriously, if the best you have has already been posted you're blown out of the water as usual.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Really, it's obvious to me you are a huge WW fan and live in your own world. Seriously.

Uhhhhh... nooooooooo....

I have already disagreed on points of her with Zeuodin on at least one of the other threads, in terms of battle context, where I don't think she would win, even though others think she might.

And *nobody* was more surprised by how well she held up fighting Superman in the Lord battle than me; I thought for certain that he would kill her if she didn't figure something out and quick. After some later reflection, and then understanding that aspects of her had advanced further than I had judged at that point (a few years ago), I went "Yeah, that actually makes sense... I mean, DC has been drilling home the point that she is suppose to be in the same league as Captain Marvel and Superman since at least '99 (and conceptually before that), so... okay"

*You* are the one being absurd in your interpretations of what has been presented here, including subtle misreadings of your *own* scans/pics, which have nothing directly to do with her, but I still find highly questionable, and agree with Zeuodin that you're missing something in each of these (WW being completely beside the point in this regard).

Originally posted by tideoftime
Uhhhhh... nooooooooo....

I have already disagreed on points of her with Zeuodin on at least one of the other threads, in terms of battle context, where I don't think she would win, even though others think she might.

And *nobody* was more surprised by how well she held up fighting Superman in the Lord battle than me; I thought for certain that he would kill her if she didn't figure something out and quick. After some later reflection, and then understanding that aspects of her had advanced further than I had judged at that point (a few years ago), I went "Yeah, that actually makes sense... I mean, DC has been drilling home the point that she is suppose to be in the same league as Captain Marvel and Superman since at least '99 (and conceptually before that), so... okay"

*You* are the one being absurd in your interpretations of what has been presented here, including subtle misreadings of your *own* scans/pics, which have nothing directly to do with her, but I still find highly questionable, and agree with Zeuodin that you're missing something in each of these (WW being completely beside the point in this regard). I got it the first 5 times you told me. I also recall you saying you were going to bed an hour ago. LOL. I disagree and stand by my assessment. Quit retelling me the same things how you agree with zeuodin. I get it already. If you want to continue the debate at hand do so or else have a great night.

Wonder Woman beats Black Mary who at the time had Black Adam's powers and the power DS gave her.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/09/00/1230297_bigthumb.jpg

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Wonder Woman beats Black Mary who at the time had Black Adam's powers and the power DS gave her.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/09/00/1230297_bigthumb.jpg So no one near Galactus level.

I could name more impressive characters than this. Gladiator, Mangog, Durok, Loki, Abomination, Surfer and Warlock at the same time, Ares and Pluto at the same time, Hela. Need I go on? This is getting rather embarrassing.

It's all opinion really. Even posts only help reinforce opinions. It's because the bottom line is they are from different universes. Who's to say Zoom can't hurt Galactus with a lightspeed punch like how Thor hurt him with a hammer strike?

Originally posted by quanchi112
So no one near Galactus level.

I could name more impressive characters than this. Gladiator, Mangog, Durok, Loki, Abomination, Surfer and Warlock at the same time, Ares and Pluto at the same time, Hela. Need I go on? This is getting rather embarrassing. Actually you are saying more impressive becuz of your opinon. you aren't posting anything. you aren't proving anything. Hela? Wonder Woman has beaten The Ruler of hell so How is hela more impressive than anythign wonder woman has faced? Wonder Woman has beaten a daxamite before her upgrade which has the exact same powers as gladiator so how is he more impressive? Thor beat mangog with his hammer. not a strength feat. He beat durok with energy powers. not a strength feat. He fought Surfer and warlock when enraged and they were holding back and he had the PG. Not a feat on his own. Yes it is embarrassing. for you. Wonder Woman beat Hectate who had ultimate power. She beat Ares. She blocked the Shattered God. etc. I'm pretty tired of pwning you like I have.

I stand by my previous assessment of of Quanchi... and I know that little by little you all are beginning to agree.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Actually you are saying more impressive becuz of your opinon. you aren't posting anything. you aren't proving anything. Hela? Wonder Woman has beaten The Ruler of hell so How is hela more impressive than anythign wonder woman has faced? Wonder Woman has beaten a daxamite before her upgrade which has the exact same powers as gladiator so how is he more impressive? Thor beat mangog with his hammer. not a strength feat. He beat durok with energy powers. not a strength feat. He fought Surfer and warlock when enraged and they were holding back and he had the PG. Not a feat on his own. Yes it is embarrassing. for you. Wonder Woman beat Hectate who had ultimate power. She beat Ares. She blocked the Shattered God. etc. I'm pretty tired of pwning you like I have. Thor's beaten four rulers of death/hell. He beat one god of war and one death god at the same time. They actually went cowering in fear from him.

This isn't a strength thread. You seem to be confused about which thread you are in. Thor's stalemated Hulk before without his hammer.

This is a fight so everything he brings to the table is fair game. Seriously, his feats crap all over most top tiers so don't feel ashamed. WW is literally blown out of the water. You give examples of Black Mary's while I am pulling out Surfers, Mangogs, Plutos, Gladiators.

It's not even close.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Actually you are saying more impressive becuz of your opinon. you aren't posting anything. you aren't proving anything. Hela? Wonder Woman has beaten The Ruler of hell so How is hela more impressive than anythign wonder woman has faced? Wonder Woman has beaten a daxamite before her upgrade which has the exact same powers as gladiator so how is he more impressive? Thor beat mangog with his hammer. not a strength feat. He beat durok with energy powers. not a strength feat. He fought Surfer and warlock when enraged and they were holding back and he had the PG. Not a feat on his own. Yes it is embarrassing. for you. Wonder Woman beat Hectate who had ultimate power. She beat Ares. She blocked the Shattered God. etc. I'm pretty tired of pwning you like I have.



Opinions too.

Originally posted by Konton
I stand by my previous assessment of of Quanchi... and I know that little by little you all are beginning to agree. I'm sad to say that I was angry that you posted that earlier but now I can understand why. He never refutes anything. he gives blanket opinions and then takes them as fact. he dismisses any thing I post while at the same time bringing up the same one fight. i posted so many thing showing she can handle hammer strikes and Cm's fist and he just dismisses them and says oh well, those aren't as impressive as Thor and gladiator yada. terrible. just terrible.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Opinions too.
None of what I said was an opinion. Spell them out. what was an opinion. I merely gave a run down of things she's accomplished.

Uh oh. How the hell in the world did this turn into Thor Vs. Wonder Woman thread?!?!?!?!?!?!

Originally posted by Zeuodin
None of what I said was an opinion. Spell them out. what was an opinion. I merely gave a run down of things she's accomplished.



Who's to say the ruler of hell wondy beat is more powerful than hela?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thor's beaten four rulers of death/hell. He beat one god of war and one death god at the same time. They actually went cowering in fear from him.

This isn't a strength thread. You seem to be confused about which thread you are in. Thor's stalemated Hulk before without his hammer.

This is a fight so everything he brings to the table is fair game. Seriously, his feats crap all over most top tiers so don't feel ashamed. WW is literally blown out of the water. You give examples of Black Mary's while I am pulling out Surfers, Mangogs, Plutos, Gladiators.

It's not even close. No I gave black mary with Black ADAMS powers plus an amp from DS. That was just one feat. And Wonder Woman did it in two moves. She didn't even use any of her other powers. I tell you what. let's make this easy. tell me how thor is going to just embarrass wonder woman. In your own words. I want to know a list of moves that he can do. We already know strength wont' cut it as i've already shown her taking hits from Oblivion, Konvict, CM, Superman, And Zoom. No one has Ko'd her but a sun amped superman. so your one example against my many won't be used. Now tell me how does thor beat her?

Since this has turned into Thor Vs. Wonder Woman thread, I'm gonna have to go with Thor 6.0/10. Based on what ive seen and read and taken from countless posters, Thor is Wondy's superior. Not by a whole lot, but a superior nonetheless. I started this thread because I had a preconcieved notion of Thor = Orion > Captain Marvel = Wonder Woman. This > is not by a whole lot, but just above. I'm talking about marginally more powerful when you take into account all their abilities and feats.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Since this has turned into Thor Vs. Wonder Woman thread, I'm gonna have to go with Thor 6.0/10. Based on what ive seen and read and taken from countless posters, Thor is Wondy's superior. Not by a whole lot, but a superior nonetheless. I started this thread because I had a preconcieved notion of Thor = Orion > Captain Marvel = Wonder Woman. This > is not by a whole lot, but just above. I'm talking about marginally more powerful when you take into account all their abilities and feats.

I know Zeuodin would disagree with Thor being stronger than Orion, but I am "meh" on the subject. As for the 6/10 split, I am not opposed to that, conceptually, though I think my layered split (from the Thor/WW thread) from earlier is more on point: 5/10 is an even draw/mutual ko, 2/2 mutual fatality (no particular order of who delivers a fatal wound first, as the follow-up comes almost immediately) and a 1/10 split on one killing the other, and barely living to tell the tale. Definitive victory would be uncommon, as these two are actually more conceptually mirrored in many ways, and more directly, than a lot of other slams.

If your a geek, I bet you can't wait for the upcoming GL and Thor movie!!!!!! Ryan Reynolds is playing Hal and the guy from the new Star Trek movie is playing Thor. Kirk's Father from the beginning of the movie.

Originally posted by Konton
I stand by my previous assessment of of Quanchi... and I know that little by little you all are beginning to agree. If you want to think so you are more than welcome. The point is when someone says something outlandish or ridiculous call them on it. Don't sit back and state someone's retarded and then 20 posts later troll again. It's against the rules and is only showing this debate matters too much to you.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
No I gave black mary with Black ADAMS powers plus an amp from DS. That was just one feat. And Wonder Woman did it in two moves. She didn't even use any of her other powers. I tell you what. let's make this easy. tell me how thor is going to just embarrass wonder woman. In your own words. I want to know a list of moves that he can do. We already know strength wont' cut it as i've already shown her taking hits from Oblivion, Konvict, CM, Superman, And Zoom. No one has Ko'd her but a sun amped superman. so your one example against my many won't be used. Now tell me how does thor beat her? Lighting blast, hammer shots, anti matter blasts, godblast, etc. Take your pick. The guy is more powerful, has the reflexes to tag her, is strong enough to match an amping Hulk hammerless, is strong enough to oneshot Abom, is powerful enough to destroy the Surfer and Warlock simultaneously.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Who's to say the ruler of hell wondy beat is more powerful than hela? I didn't say he or she was. That is the point. he's giving his opinion about who is more impressive.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you want to think so you are more than welcome. The point is when someone says something outlandish or ridiculous call them on it. Don't sit back and state someone's retarded and then 20 posts later troll again. It's against the rules and is only showing this debate matters too much to you.

Lighting blast, hammer shots, anti matter blasts, godblast, etc. Take your pick. The guy is more powerful, has the reflexes to tag her, is strong enough to match an amping Hulk hammerless, is strong enough to oneshot Abom, is powerful enough to destroy the Surfer and Warlock simultaneously.
He was not fighting Surfer and Warlock at the same time on his own. Misnomer. Lightning does nothing to Wonder Woman. She's already held the actual Thunderbolt in her hand and taken Shots from Zeus. Hammer shots and anti matter blast are deflected by the shield of aegis which thor cannot break thru. Godblast is slow. he has to pray or some wierd shit for that. He can tag her maybe. It wouldn't be enough to put her down. she's already taken shots from zoom. multiple shots. zoom is far faster than Thor. She could likely block most of his punches, take the few that land or just fly circles around him. She is after all far faster. Or how about she just lasso's him and ends the fight.

i think he had the power gem as stated earlier btw. in response to your one shotting surf and warlock at the same time.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
He was not fighting Surfer and Warlock at the same time on his own. Misnomer. Lightning does nothing to Wonder Woman. She's already held the actual Thunderbolt in her hand and taken Shots from Zeus. Hammer shots and anti matter blast are deflected by the shield of aegis which thor cannot break thru. Godblast is slow. he has to pray or some wierd shit for that. He can tag her maybe. It wouldn't be enough to put her down. she's already taken shots from zoom. multiple shots. zoom is far faster than Thor. She could likely block most of his punches, take the few that land or just fly circles around him. She is after all far faster. Or how about she just lasso's him and ends the fight.

Not to jump to the opposing side, but I wouldn't say lightening(electricity) does nothing to her; in that recent battle with Amazo, he caught her up with mimiced electrical attack, and she couldn't move, and may have even been electricuted given enough time. Once she was freed from it, she did recover after a brief moment (indicating resistance and fast recovery, but far from immunity). As long as she can deflect it with her bracers (which she could, conceptually, any of the listed energy attacks Thor has employed in the past), then she's good, but a lucky shot, or an unprotected one, could make for a bad situation for her...

Don't succumb to hyperbolic absolutes: it will only feed into the flawed perspectives of the opposition. Diana is highly durable and nearly as strong as the big'uns, but she still has exploitable weak points.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Not to jump to the opposing side, but I wouldn't say lightening(electricity) does nothing to her; in that recent battle with Amazo, he caught her up with mimiced electrical attack, and she couldn't move, and may have even been electricuted given enough time. Once she was freed from it, she did recover after a brief moment (indicating resistance and fast recovery, but far from immunity). As long as she can deflect it with her bracers (which she could, conceptually, any of the listed energy attacks Thor has employed in the past), then she's good, but a lucky shot, or an unprotected one, could make for a bad situation for her...

Don't succumb to hyperbolic absolutes: it will only feed into the flawed perspectives of the opposition. Diana is highly durable and nearly as strong as the big'uns, but she still has exploitable weak points. As do they all. Thor isn't as fast as Amazo. So I can't see him getting any luck shots of that type. Amazo also has Superman plus Wonder Woman plus Martian Manhunter strength to Hold on to Diana's skull. Makes a difference.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
As do they all. Thor isn't as fast as Amazo. So I can't see him getting any luck shots of that type. Amazo also has Superman plus Wonder Woman plus Martian Manhunter strength to Hold on to Diana's skull. Makes a difference.

But she said (well, thought) to herself about how she couldn't move her muscles because of the electricity. It was definitely the electrical attack that had her at that point (with Amazo obviously using a powerful alternating current against her, as he would have deduced that to be the best attack to use at that moment).

And I do have to say that while Diana's speed is a big edge over Thor, his innate divine ability allows him to fight/make attacks work against beings who have speed qualities he doesn't.

Like I said in the Thor/WW thread, my judgement on them against each other ends likely in mutual ko/death, with one defeating the other outright very unlikely... with this thread, having a fellow fast fighter, even going against a team with another speedster, gives the potential for tactical advantage... but anywho...

I think you did present the better arguement/debate in this and the other thread, and just don't want to see you stumble over points of absolutes...

Originally posted by Zeuodin
atlas also had the advantage over superman. Surprise surprise. It was because he was magical.

Strength is strength and CM can match SM. WW is magical and she can't match him in strength. Don't get me wrong WW is a top tier but she is not as strong or durable as the rest. But her skill will make up for that for a little while in a fight.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
atlas also had the advantage over superman. Surprise surprise. It was because he was magical.

or the fact that superman was weakened. unless you're talking about a different fight...

Originally posted by D-Block
Strength is strength and CM can match SM. WW is magical and she can't match him in strength. Don't get me wrong WW is a top tier but she is not as strong or durable as the rest. But her skill will make up for that for a little while in a fight. I say she is as strong as the rest. I've posted plenty of Strength feats of hers that quantify her to be in the elite top tiers when it comes to strength. Alot of Stuff she can't do that Say Superman can because Superman's durability is ridiculous and his flight powers trump hers any day.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I say she is as strong as the rest. I've posted plenty of Strength feats of hers that quantify her to be in the elite top tiers when it comes to strength. Alot of Stuff she can't do that Say Superman can because Superman's durability is ridiculous and his flight powers trump hers any day.

Oh I agree with you WW is one of the elite top tiers and is not to be under estimated in battle.
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
He was not fighting Surfer and Warlock at the same time on his own. Misnomer. Lightning does nothing to Wonder Woman. She's already held the actual Thunderbolt in her hand and taken Shots from Zeus. Hammer shots and anti matter blast are deflected by the shield of aegis which thor cannot break thru. Godblast is slow. he has to pray or some wierd shit for that. He can tag her maybe. It wouldn't be enough to put her down. she's already taken shots from zoom. multiple shots. zoom is far faster than Thor. She could likely block most of his punches, take the few that land or just fly circles around him. She is after all far faster. Or how about she just lasso's him and ends the fight. False. This is after he beat down the Surfer once already. He resists the karmic blast which shows how resistant his asgardian spirit is. You really don't have a clue about Thor.


http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WarlockInfinity-23-05.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WarlockInfinity-23-17.jpg

Don't ever lie again. I'll be forced to expose you. Completely stomping the Surfer and warlock is well above anything WW is capable of. She'd get annihilated by just an all out Surfer himself.


She isn't resistant to Thor's lightning. That's completely and utterly baseless.

He doesn't need the godblast here as a few hammer shots will do the trick. She can't deflect dodge everything. Thor can trade blows with her while she can't really trade blows with this badass.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
As do they all. Thor isn't as fast as Amazo. So I can't see him getting any luck shots of that type. Amazo also has Superman plus Wonder Woman plus Martian Manhunter strength to Hold on to Diana's skull. Makes a difference. So even a fellow WW fan calls you on another lie that she is immune to all forms of lightning and electricity. Originally posted by D-Block
Strength is strength and CM can match SM. WW is magical and she can't match him in strength. Don't get me wrong WW is a top tier but she is not as strong or durable as the rest. But her skill will make up for that for a little while in a fight. Exactly. She can hang for a little while but in the end her lack of durability/power/strength will cost her.

Originally posted by quanchi112
False. This is after he beat down the Surfer once already. He resists the karmic blast which shows how resistant his asgardian spirit is. You really don't have a clue about Thor.


http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WarlockInfinity-23-05.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/WarlockInfinity-23-17.jpg

Don't ever lie again. I'll be forced to expose you. Completely stomping the Surfer and warlock is well above anything WW is capable of. She'd get annihilated by just an all out Surfer himself.


She isn't resistant to Thor's lightning. That's completely and utterly baseless.

He doesn't need the godblast here as a few hammer shots will do the trick. She can't deflect dodge everything. Thor can trade blows with her while she can't really trade blows with this badass.

So even a fellow WW fan calls you on another lie that she is immune to all forms of lightning and electricity. Exactly. She can hang for a little while but in the end her lack of durability/power/strength will cost her.
More opinion. she can't trade blows with this bad ass? LMAO. That's your retort? I've already posted scans of her trading blows with being as strong and stronger and more durable than Thor. a hammer shot? Zoom hits as hard as a hammer shot. They only Hurt her. Didn't break any bones, didn't ko her. She's faster than Thor and she can block 99% of his attacks. And you are the one who lies so much. You twist everything on panel. you use one debate tactic and when it's turned around on you, you switch stances. I'm done with you. I literally crapped all over your arguments.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
More opinion. she can't trade blows with this bad ass? LMAO. That's your retort? I've already posted scans of her trading blows with being as strong and stronger and more durable than Thor. a hammer shot? Zoom hits as hard as a hammer shot. They only Hurt her. Didn't break any bones, didn't ko her. She's faster than Thor and she can block 99% of his attacks. And you are the one who lies so much. You twist everything on panel. you use one debate tactic and when it's turned around on you, you switch stances. I'm done with you. I literally crapped all over your arguments. There's no proof Zoom hits as hard as a hammer shot. None. Like usual you just tend to make things up. Thor can trade blows with stronger characters such as the Hulk. He's oneshotted Abom with his fists.


You said Thor didn't fight them both at the same time. I just called you on it.


Thor can take her blows and can definitely hit her if he can humble Glads and send him back to Zarkko proclaiming Thor's too strong when his one mission was to destroy Thor. He failed even though Thor held back and once Thor stopped doing so it just took a few hammer shots to leave him in the pavement beneath him.

Thor has dominated a far more durable opponent with aid at the same time. Surfer is more durable,more powerful, and more versatile than WW and he had help.

Yeah, Thor could solo this team if he were bloodlusted imo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
There's no proof Zoom hits as hard as a hammer shot. None. Like usual you just tend to make things up. Thor can trade blows with stronger characters such as the Hulk. He's oneshotted Abom with his fists.


You said Thor didn't fight them both at the same time. I just called you on it.


Thor can take her blows and can definitely hit her if he can humble Glads and send him back to Zarkko proclaiming Thor's too strong when his one mission was to destroy Thor. He failed even though Thor held back and once Thor stopped doing so it just took a few hammer shots to leave him in the pavement beneath him.

Thor has dominated a far more durable opponent with aid at the same time. Surfer is more durable,more powerful, and more versatile than WW and he had help.

Yeah, Thor could solo this team if he were bloodlusted imo. No. I said Thor didn't fight both of them at the same time without some kind of circumstance behind it. he either had the power gem or he was in WM state. take your pick. You are saying Thor can trade blows with Stronger Characters. Konvict can trade blows with Thor and Hulk just fine. Konvict is an elite amping brick like many others. This you cannot deny. Wonder Woman Shotted Fluxes with her fist. It took flash an Imp punch to do the same as Zum and fluxes and zoom had the same powers. All you are doing is giving opinion and over looking every single thing I've posted. While you have posted NOTHING.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
No. I said Thor didn't fight both of them at the same time without some kind of circumstance behind it. he either had the power gem or he was in WM state.
Wasn't Warrior Madness.

Read the arc.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Wasn't Warrior Madness.

Read the arc. I had the arc. He was bewitched. He was in a state of madness. And Surfer Nor Warlock were trying to kill him. He was trying to kill them.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I had the arc. He was bewitched. He was in a state of madness. And Surfer Nor Warlock were trying to kill him. He was trying to kill them.
Bewitched makes it sound like someone else did it to him. The madness and Valkyrie were all created by him. Thor has no problems telling between friend and foe when he's in Warrior Madness, he just has no qualms about killing. Nor does it change anything about Thor's durability, speed and the power of his lightning/energy attacks. The only thing him being angry arguably changes, is his strength.