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who takes it

Wonder Woman has already kicked Captain Marvel's ass TWICE in the war between the Roman gods and the Greek Gods.

are u kidding, it was only because he refused to hit a woman cuz that would lack honor.

No. It was war. Captain Marvel was giving it is all because Shazam said so. Wonder Woman kicked his ass TWICE. Zeus himself said she was more powerful than Cap. Marvel.

Captain Marvel has a fraction of the gods power. Diana actually has the TOTALITY of the gods powers.

so she's more powerful than superman too?

oh, well i read one were she was kicking the shit out of him cuz he said she was like dirty or something but he refused to hit her back because he said he didnt mean it and hitting a woman would lack honor.

Originally posted by Zahit
so she's more powerful than superman too?


No. For the last time:

Superman>Wonder Woman>Captain Marvel

Although both WW and CM have the potential of being more powerful by either drawing power from the Godwave (WW) or from the Rock of Eternity (CM)

Originally posted by armandovalles
oh, well i read one were she was kicking the shit out of him cuz he said she was like dirty or something but he refused to hit her back because he said he didnt mean it and hitting a woman would lack honor.

Dirty? He hit WW into mountains. Honor my ass.

Originally posted by Draco69
Honor my ass.

Who take it?

I think Wonder Woman wins.

Debate.

CM.

Howcome people don't get how powerful CM is?
Captian Marvel

Captain Marvel

Captain Marvel...

People say WW already beaten him, but I have a hard time believing it.
CM should massacre her.

And yeah, most people don't realize his power, probably because he's a kid. Makes his whole character look like a tool.

KC CM was badass!

Originally posted by Draco69
Crossovers aren't proof. Never have been. Never will be. I was just correcting your mistakes.

She's stronger, faster, more powerful and has hundreds of years of experience. She's mastered nearly every martial art known to man and even sparred Shiva to a standstill (when she temporarily lost her powers).

Originally posted by Draco69
CM isn't equal to Superman. I've argued this dozens of times.

Superman>Wonder Woman>Captain Marvel

This like Thing vs. the Hulk. Hulk would beat the Thing's ass. However if the Thing had a sleeping gas attack and of course Hulk was vulnerable to it then Thing has a chance of winning. See the parallel with Superman and CM?

Originally posted by jrodslam
DC doesnt seem to agree with you. Ahh well.

Originally posted by Draco69
Actually they do. Some people just ignore the evidence.

Not to mention CM has to SHARE his power with his consorts (Captain Marvel Jr. and Lady Marvel). That make him even weaker.

Originally posted by Draco69
On par? Sure. Equals as heros? Absolutely. Equals in power? Absolutely not.

This is not true. Billy Batson gave a portion of Shazam power to his sibilings because A) he felt he couldn't handle all the power and B) he wanted it to be fair for his sibilings. He gets two-thirds while his brother and sister share a third. Regardless of whether they are transformed or not.

Originally posted by Draco69
Established? In a armwrestle? And a dialogue caption?

CM has the speed of Mercury right? Diana beat the same god in a race to the underworld. And we both know that Superman is faster than Diana.

CM has the strength of Hercules right? Diana has the strength of Gaea greater than that of Hercules. Diana defeated Hercules in a contest of strength.

Thus: Superman>Wonder Woman>Captain Marvel

I use Wonder Woman's powers and history as evidence. WW is and will always be second to Superman. You and I know this. Let's leave Superman out of this and PROVE WITHOUT A DOUBT (leave references of Superman out of this) that CM is stronger, faster and more durable than Wonder Woman. I'll be back in an hour.

Originally posted by Draco69
Established by a dialogue and an armwrestle? Please. I have sources that says otherwise. You don't have anymore evidence than this.

Uh. No. The battle would turn to Superman. The recent JLU episode with Superman and Captain Marvel is by far the most accurate (ironically though) deciption of CM vs. Supes. Supes kicks CM's ass for the majority of the battle until CM uses the lightening.

Uh. NO. Please. Dear God. Captain Marvel has the speed of Mercury. Got that? Good. That means he about equal or less to the Mercury's speed. Wonder Woman is FASTER than Mercury. It's been stated by Zeus, Athena, and even Mercury himself. Diana beat Mercury in a race TWICE. And were they moving at lightspeed? NO. Damn close though.

I don't know where you got the idea that CM is FASTER than light. But your sources are completely wrong.

Mercury is the AVATAR of Hermes. Which means that Mercury is not nearly as fast as Hermes. The Roman Gods are WEAKER than the Greek Pantheon. In the War of the Gods storyline, this difference was established. The Greek Pantheon bitchslapped the Roman Gods. They then decide to reabsorb their avatars to regain more of their lost power. The Roman Gods were reliant on the Greek Pantheon to give them power. The Greek Pantheon were basically their bosses.

Conclusion: Mercury (Captain Marvel) < Hermes (Wonder Woman)

This is not true. Shazam's spell does not allow it. He cannot for example use the Speed of Mercury and the Power of Zeus to transform himself into a lightening being. He has the same limitations Diana has.

Absolutely not true. I'm assuming you're referring to the Atlas/Hercules issue. As decreed from the spell of Shazam. Captain Marvel possesses the Stamina of Atlas and the strength of Hercules. This OBVIOUSLY means he possesses to separate abilities. He doesn't possess BOTH the strengh of Atlas and Hercules. That wasn't the spell. He possesses the stamina of Atlas and the Strength of Hercules. Stamina and strength are two diffenent things. A long distance runner has more stamina than a short distance runner however the latter posssesses more strength. Get it?

No. Wonder Woman is second to Superman in the superhero community as a whole. This was established in the following books:

WONDER WOMAN #24
WONDER WOMAN #144
WONDER WOMAN #175
ACTION COMICS #761
WONDER WOMAN #102
WONDER WOMAN #103
WONDER WOMAN #109

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Captain Marvel, having the strenght of Zeus, means that he can utilize his lighting powers.

And Captain Marvel moving in lightspeeds?

PLEASE.

Wonder Woman Wins!

But, she shouldn't.
CM isn't full powered anymore, so beating a quarter powered CM is nothing to be proud of.

She still wins

Sentry, Draco was saying that CM couldnt combine or stack powers. I proved otherwise, and Draco's counter for that was "pre-crisis. he cant do it anymore." He had no proof of that.

CM has been said to be equals to Superman on many occasions. WW hasnt.

CM wins.

Does anybody have a issue # or scans of CM and WW fighitng? I hear it all the time that WW kicks his @ss but nobody backs it up with proof other than words. I heard the fight or fights were inconclusive like his fights with Superman.

I believe what Sentry said, it ain't like he's lying.

Mee too Snoopdogg.

I cant find any scans of WW and CM fighting Snoopdogg, but heres some others.

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=050430041910&q=shazam

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?rpl=050429040752&q=captain%20marvel

Those are some pretty cool pics. I liked how Aquaman and Martian Manhnter said that he could give Superman a run for his money.

Captain Marvel (Pre-SHAZAM) vs Wonder Woman

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/182/77007-134159-captain-marvel_super.jpg vs http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/75740-7621-wonder-woman_super.jpg

This aint no different then the black adam fight.

Originally posted by carver9
This aint no different then the black adam fight. except that Captain Marvel is not the same as Black Adam

Originally posted by Starscream M
except that Captain Marvel is not the same as Black Adam

I agree with that but there powerset are exactly alike and captain marvel tends to use his speed almost better then any top tier in dc whereas black adam doesnt. So with that said, captain marvel get the majority.

Originally posted by Starscream M
except that Captain Marvel is not the same as Black Adam

And SMP is not the same as SBP.... same shit different pile thats all. CA and BA are pretty much the same, however BA is a lot meaner etc... It just boils down to personality.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with that but there powerset are exactly alike and captain marvel tends to use his speed almost better then any top tier in dc whereas black adam doesnt. So with that said, captain marvel get the majority. Wondy has already matched CM's speed.

Billy takes it 8/10

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Billy takes it 8/10 http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/rr138/fangirl102/WaroftheGods01_32.jpg

Originally posted by fangirl101
Wondy has already matched CM's speed.

Of course shes going to match his speed in a comic but you have to think about it like this; captain marvel use his speed almost everytime he fights, hell the guy start out with a speed blitz in almost all of his fights. Just look at kingdom come and batman/superman.

I give this to captain marvel 7/10

Originally posted by carver9
Of course shes going to match his speed in a comic but you have to think about it like this; captain marvel use his speed almost everytime he fights, hell the guy start out with a speed blitz in almost all of his fights. Just look at kingdom come and batman/superman.

I give this to captain marvel 7/10
Ok let me clue you in. Wondy has the ability to degrade her power levels. She does this as not to kill anyone and to get a good fight in. She only uses her best, when she has to. And another thing, wondy uses her defenses in every fight you've seen her in. So even if he blitzes, that doesn't mean he's going to have a succesful blitz.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Ok let me clue you in. Wondy has the ability to degrade her power levels. She does this as not to kill anyone and to get a good fight in. She only uses her best, when she has to. And another thing, wondy uses her defenses in every fight you've seen her in. So even if he blitzes, that doesn't mean he's going to have a succesful blitz.

I agree, good post.

I give the majority to Diana.

Marvel is stronger and more durable.
7-8/10.

PG stated she was stronger than CM. WW is at least as strong as PG.

Besides, WW takes this due to skill.

Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
PG stated she was stronger than CM.

So?

Powergirl isn't as strong as WW or Supergirl.....
No way in hell she's on par with Billy.

She said she was stronger than Billy in JSA. I was just throwin' out there.

Besides, I said WW takes this due to SKILL.

Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
PG stated she was stronger than CM. WW is at least as strong as PG.

Besides, WW takes this due to skill.

Captain Marvel has stalemated Superman in strength multiple times.

Wonder Woman >= Power Girl > Captain Marvel = Superman? I don't think so.

Diana has the skill advantage, Billy has every other imaginable. He'll take the majority here.

Billy

Originally posted by Soljer
Captain Marvel has stalemated Superman in strength multiple times.

Wonder Woman >= Power Girl > Captain Marvel = Superman? I don't think so.

Diana has the skill advantage, Billy has every other imaginable. He'll take the majority here.
So he has the speed advantage? The weapons advantage? The defense advantage?

CM for a majority.
Though it will be a hard fought win

Originally posted by Soljer
Captain Marvel has stalemated Superman in strength multiple times.

Wonder Woman >= Power Girl > Captain Marvel = Superman? I don't think so.

Diana has the skill advantage, Billy has every other imaginable. He'll take the majority here.

Originally posted by Soljer
Captain Marvel has stalemated Superman in strength multiple times.

Wonder Woman >= Power Girl > Captain Marvel = Superman? I don't think so.

Diana has the skill advantage, Billy has every other imaginable. He'll take the majority here.

I thought this was due to CM being magical based, not that he was *actually* as strong as Superman?

And may I ask a question? Captain Marvel has the strength of Hercules, right? Wonder Woman is stronger than Hercules. Why does it follow that CM is stronger than WW? I'm not talking about panel feats, but I mean from a logical standpoint. Has it even been explained why his strength would be stronger than hers? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm truly asking. And I want more than just "Superman said . . ." Superman also basically said that a punch from Diana is like that of Captain Marvel so I'm not sure he's the best barometer.

Cap does derive his strength from a god named hercules, but it's not necessarily the same herc from Diana's book.

Tho, even if it was, he's stalemated Superman enough to let us know he's seen as an equal in strength to the kryptonian. And thats the final word.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Cap does derive his strength from a god named hercules, but it's not necessarily the same herc from Diana's book.

Tho, even if it was, he's stalemated Superman enough to let us know he's seen as an equal in strength to the kryptonian. And thats the final word.

See above.

there is no speed advantage here for either, billy is not going to speed blitz diana lol, and vis versa.

this fight can go either way.


I would much prefer a BA vs diana fight, myself. In this fight i see diana and marvel holding back.


In a BA vs WW fight i think they would both be willing to kill each other.

Originally posted by zeel
there is no speed advantage here for either, billy is not going to speed blitz diana lol, and vis versa.

this fight can go either way.


I would much prefer a BA vs diana fight, myself. In this fight i see diana and marvel holding back.


In a BA vs WW fight i think they would both be willing to kill each other.

Captain marvel speed blitz superman three times from what I remember. Why wouldnt he be able to speed blitz her and captain marvel has always been depicted as supermans equal.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
See above.

I don't pay much heed to what Superman says for the most part, but i do pay attention to what he does.

He may say a punch from WW is like a punch from Cap Marvel, but he's never treated Cap the way he treats Diana.

He's always presented as holding the edge over Diana in all their fights. She's on the defensive for the most part in their tussles, whereas with Cap and his ilk, it's always presented as an even match.

Whether Cap, Teth or Orion, they give him pause.

Diana gets the J'onn treatment, a haymaker and sand on the eyelids.

Why is Cap presented as a peer where Diana is the inferior, history with Fawcett, first Superman clone(not!), or whatever, he gets that nod, and she doesn't.

Originally posted by UniOmni
I don't pay much heed to what Superman says for the most part, but i do pay attention to what he does.

He may say a punch from WW is like a punch from Cap Marvel, but he's never treated Cap the way he treats Diana.

He's always presented as holding the edge over Diana in all their fights. She's on the defensive for the most part in their tussles, whereas with Cap and his ilk, it's always presented as an even match.

Whether Cap, Teth or Orion, they give him pause.

Diana gets the J'onn treatment, a haymaker and sand on the eyelids.

Why is Cap presented as a peer where Diana is the inferior, history with Fawcett, first Superman clone(not!), or whatever, he gets that nod, and she doesn't.
When has Superman ever had an actual fight with Diana?

JLA:League of One,
For Tomorrow
Sacrifice

Most recent i remember.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I thought this was due to CM being magical based, not that he was *actually* as strong as Superman?

And may I ask a question? Captain Marvel has the strength of Hercules, right? Wonder Woman is stronger than Hercules. Why does it follow that CM is stronger than WW? I'm not talking about panel feats, but I mean from a logical standpoint. Has it even been explained why his strength would be stronger than hers? I'm not being sarcastic. I'm truly asking. And I want more than just "Superman said . . ." Superman also basically said that a punch from Diana is like that of Captain Marvel so I'm not sure he's the best barometer.

As Uni attempted to explain, and you seemed to ignore, the H in SHAZAM is a different Hercules than standard DC Hercules.

It refers to a lord of magic - of which there are, apparently, many many versions.

So, Wonder Woman's Herc and Captain Marvel's are as different as DC's and Marvels.

Originally posted by Soljer
As Uni attempted to explain, and you seemed to ignore, the H in SHAZAM is a different Hercules than standard DC Hercules.

It refers to a lord of magic - of which there are, apparently, many many versions.

So, Wonder Woman's Herc and Captain Marvel's are as different as DC's and Marvels. Sorry. I have it on paper that the herakles that Gives shazam his power is the same one that Diana is has beaten.

Originally posted by UniOmni
JLA:League of One,
For Tomorrow
Sacrifice

Most recent i remember.
For tomorrow Was no real fight. And superman got his lumps in. JLA league of one was bad writing.The Lfash tripped on a tree branch. And the Sacrifice wasn't a fight. Diana was NOT trying to hurt Clark. She didn't even want to fight him. Poor example.

Originally posted by Soljer
As Uni attempted to explain, and you seemed to ignore, the H in SHAZAM is a different Hercules than standard DC Hercules.

It refers to a lord of magic - of which there are, apparently, many many versions.

So, Wonder Woman's Herc and Captain Marvel's are as different as DC's and Marvels.

Unless I am psychic, there is no way I could ignore the answer to a question, before I receive the answer.

They meet in Metropolis.
Both at normal Post Crisis levels

Who wins?

Captain Marvel.

A tough fight. (Much like the BA/WW fight somebody dredged up again)

Despite popular misperception, Billy and Diana have comparable power in a one-on-one fight: she is nearly as strong as he is, they have equal speed (though she edges this with superior combat skills), have equal durability against blunt force attacks (though he has superior invulnerability against many other forms of attack that she, while also resistant, isn't as durable against). Her real advantage comes from her normal equipment: her lasso can subdue him, and her bracers (when used as aids in bludgeoning) and her tiara are capable of harming him in potentially serious ways (as both are capable of harming/killing gods, and have done so before).

The real *underlying* difference, however, between this fight and the one with BA/WW, is CM won't come across as someone Diana senses as evil, or needing to be killed in order to be stopped/reasoned with (and when the writer has CM's "Wisdom of Solomon" kick in, he'd sense the same thing, too). That shifts things a little, and leaves us with a 5/5 split in this case: Diana is capable of subduing CM, and he is equally capable of doing the same, even if it might take him longer on his side of the equation.

Wondy 6/10. The lasso Gets her a quick easy win. without it, I'd say they tie. They've already tied before in WOTG.

Billy 7/10

This was before Her 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Upgrades.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/10/1228285_500x742.jpg

Originally posted by Nihilist
Billy 7/10

Why do you say that? Not being combative with that question, just genuinely curious. It seems part of a common misconception people have about WW, and CM, for a number of years now. They have generally been scripted by DC as being equals (with each have advantages over the other in various regards, with those advantages not being major or overwhelming in eithers favor).

Wonder Woman.

CM

Diana. 7/10

Her equipment tips the scales too far in her favor for a 5/5 or even a 6/4 IMO.

WW 6/10

CM 8/10

This has been done...

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Captain Marvel

Originally posted by D-Block
Captain Marvel nice Sig.

could go either way. she wins with all her extra weapons, but i think the good captain takes it if she has her standard weaponry. (bracers and lasso)

wondy 6/10 with all her weaps
CM 6/10 with only her standard weaps

wow im suprised the polls have CM by such a majority. so far 7 to 1. it's should be closer than that.

To say W.W. beats C.M is the same as saying W.W.beats Superman! So to that C.M. wins the same majority that Superman does.

Captain Marvel is roughly the magical counterpart of Superman.

Wonder Woman will go the mile against this fight, but the end result would be the same as her fighting Superman.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Captain Marvel is roughly the magical counterpart of Superman.

Wonder Woman will go the mile against this fight, but the end result would be the same as her fighting Superman. CM is now where near Superman's lvl of Speed. And he has none of Superman's projectile powers. Not at all the same.

CM ftw
6/10

too many people underestimate CM

Originally posted by ankur29
CM ftw
6/10

too many people underestimate CM


same way too many peeps underestimate wondy

Diana has already stalemated CM a few upgrades ago. Even Superman considers CM to hit the same as Diana and he's stated so on panel.

Her gear (bracers, tiara, and lasso) are too much because they are roughly equal physically. Now if he had some huge physical trait that dwarfed hers I could see him taking a higher majority. For Superman it's his significantly superior strength and defenses that give him a majority on her.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
same way too many peeps underestimate wondy

at least wonderwoman is a regualr in the dc universe

CM is so underused . he isn't give the chance to showcase his powers

although recently CM did lift an infinte amount of weight in FC SM beyond

And Diana helped lift eternity. I prefer not to factor in hyperbolic strength feats because they are stupid.

We all have to establish what we consider "being equals". When strength is involved, Supes equal is Cap. Thats been established already. When we talk about fighting prowess and overall fighting ability as well as powers, things change a bit and not everyone(Supes, Cap, Wondy) are equal.

If Diana can get the lasso around him, something that is pretty likely considering her comparative skill/powerset, what's to stop her from asking him "What's the name of the Wizard you get your powers from?" or something similiar?

That being said, I see this being pretty even.

Billy would win 7/10.

For the Silver Age stalemate that is claimed on WW's behalf, it is failed to be mentioned that CM was the one who was still portrayed as physically superior. And the popular scan that floats around fails to show the page of the encounter before that when he knocked her around with a sloppy power shot. She of course deftly dodged a follow up blow and and double pushed kicked him or whatever to the gut.

And the above showing is just the thing; She's a better fighter than Supes and Marvel and has the superior reaction time that allows her to be competitive with either. No more no less.

Forget comparing the scant number of lifting feats for both of them, Marvel has physically restrained an Eclipso possessed Superman twice in a full nelson/headlock.The first time Eclipso Supes only got out after Marvel was distracted, the second time Supes despite visibly struggling and even headbutting Marvel with the back of his head still failed to get out and only after turning back to Billy was Supes able to be free.

And there is the 2 hour arm wrestling stalemate.

Diana would not be depicted as doing any of the above seeing as she is consistently described and portrayed as only being 'close' to Superman, whereas Billy has never suffered anything less than staunch equality, and on a few occasions is even showed to be superior or mentioned, by Supes himself no less.

-Supes statement that WW hits as hard as CM? Don't really buy it, just by comparing how the two different fights go on a consistent basis. With Captain Marvel being the one who can break Supes' nose with one punch. Still even if WW does hit Supes as hard as CM does, that is easily explained by CM being the one holding back (confirmed when Supes and CM fused) whereas WW does not hold back much.

-Equipment advantage? The reason her equipment gives Supes a problem is because they are magic, whereas Marvel is as close as you can get to being immune to magic. The lasso can still cause problems of course.

Written logically with both being serious (not necessarily bloodlusted) about knocking the other out in a slugfest, Cap would beat her down just as badly as Bizarro did(Who's another person that CM has had good physical showings against).

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Forget comparing the scant number of lifting feats for both of them, Marvel has physically restrained an Eclipso possessed Superman twice in a full nelson/headlock.The first time Eclipso Supes only got out after Marvel was distracted, the second time Supes despite visibly struggling and even headbutting Marvel with the back of his head still failed to get out and only after turning back to Billy was Supes able to be free.

what has eclipso got to do with anything? billy is supposed to be on clark's level, so holding him with leverage shouldn't exactly be difficult...

Originally posted by -Pr-
what has eclipso got to do with anything? billy is supposed to be on clark's level, so holding him with leverage shouldn't exactly be difficult...

Billy being Clark's equal is exactly what I'm trying to get across.

Diana is not. Billy is.

(OTOH Billy has gotten out of similar situation when Clark was holding him. Just saying.)