Cyclops vs Namor

TheKahn

Originally posted by Superman>>Thor
god i hate it so much when people bring this crap to debates .. "you know that guy beat hulk right?" so what does it means? does that means namor can take visors off blast at full power from cyclops like world war hulk did? namor is no where even near as durable and world war hulk you moron

Polite one, aren't you?

My point was Namor's durability against concussive forces is quite high seeing as how he has fought against several of Marvel's top bricks. Thus, I doubt Cyclops will be able to take Namor down with a single blast as described in your eloquent and highly detailed analysis. no expression

Wei Phoenix

Well I'm not here to say who wins or discredit one, but...Dazzler fought Hulk twice and reverted him to Banner twice. evil face

Wei Phoenix

Originally posted by Superman>>Thor
and by the way world war hulk took the full power blast thanks to his healing factor that was healing him because after the blast you could see he was all smoke around him and he was injured during the blast but his healing factor was healing him but namor will be a fried fish with some rice

Scott didn't give him a full power blast in WWH and his beams don't generate heat so he can't fry anyone.

Superman>>Thor

Originally posted by TheKahn
Polite one, aren't you?

My point was Namor's durability against concussive forces is quite high seeing as how he has fought against several of Marvel's top bricks. Thus, I doubt Cyclops will be able to take Namor down with a single blast as described in your eloquent and highly detailed analysis. no expression

when i said single blast i referred to a single full power optic blast from cyclops his famous "get of my lawn" blast and you dont really believe that namor can take this blast right? because cyclops not only fire the blast for a second but he is kipping this energy blast at you as long as his eyes are opened and world war hulk was struggling a little to get thrue the blast and he was injured and his healing factor was working all that time as he moved forward so please dont tell me you really think namor is that durable seeing how simple blasts from iron man hurt him

Superman>>Thor

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Scott didn't give him a full power blast in WWH and his beams don't generate heat so he can't fry anyone.

yes scot did he tole everybody to move and he went all out on world war hulk so that was his max blast power

JakeTheBank

Superman>>Thor

wow didnt know you are a dirty arab

Wei Phoenix

Originally posted by Superman>>Thor
yes scot did he tole everybody to move and he went all out on world war hulk so that was his max blast power

Look at the blast he gave WWH and the lawn blast he gave the Sentinel. Do you see the difference? What he said is different from what he did.

Wei Phoenix

Originally posted by Superman>>Thor
wow didnt know you are a dirty arab

That guy is actually black.

JakeTheBank

Originally posted by Superman>>Thor
wow didnt know you are a dirty arab

facepalm2

And I didn't know you were a troll.

TheKahn

Originally posted by Superman>>Thor
when i said single blast i referred to a single full power optic blast from cyclops his famous "get of my lawn" blast and you dont really believe that namor can take this blast right? because cyclops not only fire the blast for a second but he is kipping this energy blast at you as long as his eyes are opened and world war hulk was struggling a little to get thrue the blast and he was injured and his healing factor was working all that time as he moved forward so please dont tell me you really think namor is that durable seeing how simple blasts from iron man hurt him

Cyclops' full powered blast is quite impressive but I'm not quite convinced it is enough to take down Namor. We have a respect thread here for Namor that is about 80 pages long and (iirc) it has numerous durability feats that in my opinion make it possible for him to survive Cyclops' best shot (such as taking multiple hits from an enraged Hulk and taking blows from Thor welding Mjolnir). That being said, I could see the fight going either way.

If Cyke can keep enough distance between the two, I think he can eventually wear Namor down. But if Namor gets in close, its over quick.

Superman>>Thor

i repeat myself when he blasts world war hulk he is telling everybody to move because he is going all out on world war hulk so maybe the artist didnt portray the amount of damage the blast can make to the environment all around but it was stated that cyclops went all out which means this was his strongest blast

TheKahn

Originally posted by Superman>>Thor
wow didnt know you are a dirty arab

Enjoy being banned. wavey

Wei Phoenix

Originally posted by Superman>>Thor
i repeat myself when he blasts world war hulk he is telling everybody to move because he is going all out on world war hulk so maybe the artist didnt portray the amount of damage the blast can make to the environment all around but it was stated that cyclops went all out which means this was his strongest blast

Here's a known fact. Scott can't release a full powered blast with his visor on. He used the full power of his visor maybe, but that wasn't his lawn blast.

Battlehammer

Superman>>Thor

Originally posted by TheKahn
Cyclops' full powered blast is quite impressive but I'm not quite convinced it is enough to take down Namor. We have a respect thread here for Namor that is about 80 pages long and (iirc) it has numerous durability feats that in my opinion make it possible for him to survive Cyclops' best shot (such as taking multiple hits from an enraged Hulk and taking blows from Thor welding Mjolnir). That being said, I could see the fight going either way.

If Cyke can keep enough distance between the two, I think he can eventually wear Namor down. But if Namor gets in close, its over quick.

you are trying to compare blunt trauma force to energy attacks, cyclops was able to overload bishop with ordinary blast and lets not forget bishop was able to absorb the electricity of an entire city so that means cyclops "get of my lawn" blast>>>ordinary blast>entire city electricity

Superman>>Thor

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Here's a known fact. Scott can't release a full powered blast with his visor on. He used the full power of his visor maybe, but that wasn't his lawn blast.

the visors dont limit his blast or the power the blast generate the visors are just helping him to control the amount of mass he is generating with his blast but when he is going all out then visors off or on it doesnt matter because its still the same mass and power and as i said before cyclops himself stated that he is going all out and i thinkcyclops knows better then you if he is going all out or not

TheKahn

Originally posted by Superman>>Thor
you are trying to compare blunt trauma force to energy attacks, cyclops was able to overload bishop with ordinary blast and lets not forget bishop was able to absorb the electricity of an entire city so that means cyclops "get of my lawn" blast>>>ordinary blast>entire city electricity

Cyclops' blast is an exotic form of energy that does not exist in real life. In stead of acting like energy from the electro-magnetic spectrum, it only impart a concussive force upon its target like a punch or kick would.

http://marvel.com/universe/Cyclops_%28Scott_Summers%29
Cyclops possesses the mutant ability to project a beam of heatless ruby-colored concussive force from his eyes...

Superman>>Thor

you just dont get it do you? while its not fire he is shooting from his eyes its still energy and energy and a punch or kick is different, the difference is when iron man punched namor it almost didnt do a crap but when he blasted him it caused damage because energy attack is a different force then a solid blunt force and the thing with cyclops is that ints not a single blast for a second but he is kipping that beam on you as long as his eyes are opened namor just cant take it

rotiart

Originally posted by Superman>>Thor
you just dont get it do you? while its not fire he is shooting from his eyes its still energy and energy and a punch or kick is different, the difference is when iron man punched namor it almost didnt do a crap but when he blasted him it caused damage because energy attack is a different force then a solid blunt force and the thing with cyclops is that ints not a single blast for a second but he is kipping that beam on you as long as his eyes are opened namor just cant take it

Iron man's blasts are a lot different than cyclops....

Cyclops blasts are described as concussive blasts... pure force...

Whereas ironman's repulsor blasts, plasma bolts... etc... are blasts of heat/ radiation... it is a combination of heat/energy, and force that iron man fires... which is why some times things catch on fire when hit by the iron man blasts.. but not the same as by cyclops...

TheKahn

Originally posted by rotiart
Iron man's blasts are a lot different than cyclops....

Cyclops blasts are described as concussive blasts... pure force...

Whereas ironman's repulsor blasts, plasma bolts... etc... are blasts of heat/ radiation... it is a combination of heat/energy, and force that iron man fires... which is why some times things catch on fire when hit by the iron man blasts.. but not the same as by cyclops...

Thanks. thumb up

I don't know if I could have been that succinct or that polite in explaining the difference.

StiltmanFTW

Didn't Namor deflect IM's blast?

Has Cyke put down any class 100+ beings?

TheKahn

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Didn't Namor deflect IM's blast?

Has Cyke put down any class 100+ beings?

He's fought Juggernaut before and won, but as you can imagine the context of the feat is important.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4575/000aqyf82jv.th.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/996/000arge00bm.th.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5219/000askdg5ig.th.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4661/000atbwz1dr.th.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9561/000aw0ke4yd.th.jpg

Honestly, I didn't have that much respect for ol' one eye until I came to KMC, read through his respect thread, and read some very informed people debate in his favor. Now, he's one of my favorites. Not sure if he can win against Namor, but I'd wager he'd give the water breather a run for his money.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by TheKahn
He's fought Juggernaut before and won, but as you can imagine the context of the feat is important.

Yep, I read that.

-Pr-

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I dont recall it ever beeing stated that he has to take his visor off to do a full powered blast.

given the design of the visor, it's pretty obvious, tbh.

and i think scott does have the power to put down namor with high level blasts (based on his other feats). that's assuming he cuts loose, though, which is something he rarely does.

Bentley

Your average Namor won't tank Cyclops's strongest blast.

Your average Cyclops won't throw his strongest blasts in any battle.

The winner is decided by water and distance to be honest.

rotiart

Manors power ratio goes from class 100 to just above average human based upon his water levels... If he didn't have his water suit... And hasn't been near water for a couple hours say... Out in a desert... Cyclops could win...

But a manor fresh out of the water for this fight is going straight into the heart of cyclops blasts with slight wounds and knocking his head off.

I've always been a fan of cyclops but no way does he have the power to take on manor normally

jujitsudoku

Originally posted by rotiart
Manors power ratio goes from class 100 to just above average human based upon his water levels... If he didn't have his water suit... And hasn't been near water for a couple hours say... Out in a desert... Cyclops could win...

But a manor fresh out of the water for this fight is going straight into the heart of cyclops blasts with slight wounds and knocking his head off.

I've always been a fan of cyclops but no way does he have the power to take on manor normally

who the hell is manor? and its so obvious you are a namor fanboy give me a break i just love how every time someone is going up against some character he is always saying "i love that character" just to look more credible its like those racist who say "by the way all my friends are black but....." same way here you are not a fan of cyclops so dont crap my yanks and cyclops stomp this with his "GOML" blast

Wei Phoenix

Oddly enough, Cain does float. If Scott could do lawn blasts with the visor on then why would he ever take it off? He had plenty of time to shoot the sentinel with a "lawn" blast when he had his visor on.

rotiart

Originally posted by jujitsudoku
who the hell is manor? and its so obvious you are a namor fanboy give me a break i just love how every time someone is going up against some character he is always saying "i love that character" just to look more credible its like those racist who say "by the way all my friends are black but....." same way here you are not a fan of cyclops so dont crap my yanks and cyclops stomp this with his "GOML" blast Bull and shit
I've used to love Scott slim summers
I loved that the need for a great tactian other than cap many calling in cyclops
His love story with Jean was a fun reed back in the day. I liked it when they split to blue and gold and Jim lee drew those comics and magneto went and became Joseph and xonr and back again oh the headache

that scott like me is the older brother trying to protect his younger brother Alex

Oh FYI when I type crappy it's cause I'm at work sneaking posts 8-5 on my iPhone as I am now
Scott has shown his power with statements like being able to crack the moon
clearing a room of soldiers in a way that made wolverine go omfg

And when Emma took his limits off he overload bishop with enough for e to destroy an sentinels arm... Something they though it would take five seconds of continuous blast fro.m a limited cyclops to do

I also love cap
Btw I hate wolverine or if you don't get that by my posts

namorsubby

been readin the ensuing arguements........and although i'm not to sure it's completely relevant, since it occured very long ago.........but Namor shrugged off cyke's beam rather easily back in the classic X-men era(aka when beast was white, and iceman was a main core member)

Doublejuice

Originally posted by namorsubby
been readin the ensuing arguements........and although i'm not to sure it's completely relevant, since it occured very long ago.........but Namor shrugged off cyke's beam rather easily back in the classic X-men era(aka when beast was white, and iceman was a main core member)

why the hell do you bring in the classic cyclops when his beams were portrayed as nothing but red straws?since then his character including his powers were evolved and know we see that he controls the power and mass of his beams and now we are talking about his strongest optic blast that he didnt use back then

ExodusCloak

IRRC Jeff Parker cited Namora as Namors equal twice now in Agents of Atlas.

So in Scotts defence he could take a few depending on how far they stand a part.

I mean a blast like this was able to hurt and remove Namora from the air. The Uranian used his mental powers to buy his team enough time to steal the Cerebra core and escape.

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/615/xmenvsagentsofatlas1pag.th.jpghttp://img195.imageshack.us/img195/615/xmenvsagentsofatlas1pag.th.jpghttp://img41.imageshack.us/img41/615/xmenvsagentsofatlas1pag.th.jpghttp://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2743/xmenvsagentsofatlas1pagu.th.jpg

namorsubby

Originally posted by Doublejuice
why the hell do you bring in the classic cyclops when his beams were portrayed as nothing but red straws?since then his character including his powers were evolved and know we see that he controls the power and mass of his beams and now we are talking about his strongest optic blast that he didnt use back then .......why the hell would you respond in such fashion when i had already mentioned previously that I wasn't sure it was relevant:

dense.

also......just to add.......I'd heard of cyke perfecting and improving his skill with his powers since those days, but i've never heard it stated anywhere that his power has increased in any way.

.........red straws????? WTF?

edit:
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
IRRC Jeff Parker cited Namora as Namors equal twice now in Agents of Atlas.

So in Scotts defence he could take a few depending on how far they stand a part.

I mean a blast like this was able to hurt and remove Namora from the air. The Uranian used his mental powers to buy his team enough time to steal the Cerebra core and escape.

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/615/xmenvsagentsofatlas1pag.th.jpghttp://img195.imageshack.us/img195/615/xmenvsagentsofatlas1pag.th.jpghttp://img41.imageshack.us/img41/615/xmenvsagentsofatlas1pag.th.jpghttp://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2743/xmenvsagentsofatlas1pagu.th.jpg

it's been implied for some time, but Namora still hasn't shown us much of anything to suggest she's on Namor's level power-wise......those scans may actually be evidence against her(if scott's blast hasn't gotten any stronger since classic times). I actually do hope we start to see her kick just as much butt as namor though.......the scans will make great additions to my thread.lol

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by namorsubby
it's been implied for some time, but Namora still hasn't shown us much of anything to suggest she's on Namor's level power-wise......those scans may actually be evidence against her(if scott's blast hasn't gotten any stronger since classic times). I actually do hope we start to see her kick just as much butt as namor though.......the scans will make great additions to my thread.lol

In that issue Namors Fraption was "No equal in Water", Namora's Fraption was "See Namor" and then I think she was called his equal in the Agents of Atlas Dark Reign arc. But you're right she doesn't have the feats to back those statements up I guess.

Scotts powers have gotten stronger since classic times though. He has had I think two upgrades if I'm not mistaken I was re-reading my UXM issues and the first was early on like before Byrne. Pr probably knows exactly when and where it happened. I was never that big a fan of Cyclops until Morrison. stick out tongue

namorsubby

I remember that from agents of atlas #1........i think i put it in my thread.....and I know she's claimed herself to by equal more than once(incredible hulk #107,incredible hercules 122).....but yeah....there's a matter of the feats.

still though, she hasn't been back around for that long(since about 2006) and hasn't appeared in basically anything besides the agents of atlas series 1 and 2.......she's done some impressive things(beating miss marvel, having a little 2 second mano e mano with WWH, etc)......i honestly can't wait to see if she'll live up to the hype.

I wasn't aware he had had any upgrades in the actual power of his beam......my bad. embarrasment

ExodusCloak

Found this, warning Spoilers from AXM #33

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/1354318.html

-Pr-

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Found this, warning Spoilers from AXM #33

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/1354318.html

...HA.

Trackz

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Found this, warning Spoilers from AXM #33

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/1354318.html thats insane, scott wins just cause that scan is crazy

thanos-prime

Cyclops

Colossus-Big C

what can cyclops do if namor grabs him? hes only human strength.......

-Pr-

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
what can cyclops do if namor grabs him? hes only human strength.......

open his eyes.

Colossus-Big C

Originally posted by -Pr-
open his eyes. namor can crush both his fist so he would be able to turn on the visor.......

-Pr-

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
namor can crush both his fist so he would be able to turn on the visor.......

the visor operates on cyclops' thoughts if he wants it to.

Colossus-Big C

Originally posted by -Pr-
the visor operates on cyclops' thoughts if he wants it to. when was this ever displayed sick

-Pr-

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
when was this ever displayed sick

how many times have you seen cyclops use his visor without touching it? granted, some of it is the buttons in his gloves (which are still usable btw), but sometimes it's just the visor.

psycho gundam

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
what can cyclops do if namor grabs him? hes only human strength.......

Originally posted by -Pr-
open his eyes. laughing

Rage.Of.Olympus

I've only seen Namor take Cyclop's Optic Beams twice and each time he has shrugged them off without being hurt. Once I believe it was stated Cyclops was giving it his all if I recall correctly.

Unless they've had another encounter, based on what I recall, Namor beats his face in 10/10.

Especially if you take into account his speed, and ability to absorb and redirect energy. He once absorbed the energy equivalent to a nuclear warhead I believe in a fight with Presence.

Rage.Of.Olympus

Originally posted by -Pr-
...HA.

Raoul just jizzed.

psycho gundam

i don't blame him, anytime cyclops does that it's epic.

the one he did to onslaught was was exactly like the super from one of those marvel vs games, so it's the best by default imo.

Blanket

Namor Imperius Rex's Cyke's head off

-Pr-

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I've only seen Namor take Cyclop's Optic Beams twice and each time he has shrugged them off without being hurt. Once I believe it was stated Cyclops was giving it his all if I recall correctly.

Unless they've had another encounter, based on what I recall, Namor beats his face in 10/10.

Especially if you take into account his speed, and ability to absorb and redirect energy. He once absorbed the energy equivalent to a nuclear warhead I believe in a fight with Presence.

when was that? cyclops use to say he was using full power a lot. he honestly seemed to just not know how powerful he was back then. i don't see namor tanking the oml blast or the one from AXM 33, especially considering cyclops can just pour it on continuously.

also, cyclops' blasts have been said to output more power than a nuclear reactor.

dunno if a missile has more than a reactor though.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Raoul just jizzed.

if it were possible, i probably would have.

Juggawagga

namor cant take his max blast cyclops will kill him every single time 10/10 if he wants to go all out

Blanket

Originally posted by -Pr-
if it were possible, i probably would have. Paul can't jizz

fact

rotiart

Is is by no means disrespect for cyclops... But do you who think cyclops pulls majority thinks his best blasts are equal to blows from
hulk, shaw, war machine , surfer, iron man, Thor, Hercules, doom ... Etc?

Namor has stood up to those attacks in or near water... And gone on to usually stalemate his opponents or possibly even beat them...

Because to say namor gets one shot if he's fresh out of water is like saying you think cyclops bests blasts are better than 100 tonner hitting strength?

redhotrash

Namor has taken Iron Man blasts from meters away and went right through them. Hes pretty tough.

-Pr-

Originally posted by rotiart
Is is by no means disrespect for cyclops... But do you who think cyclops pulls majority thinks his best blasts are equal to blows from
hulk, shaw, war machine , surfer, iron man, Thor, Hercules, doom ... Etc?

Namor has stood up to those attacks in or near water... And gone on to usually stalemate his opponents or possibly even beat them...

Because to say namor gets one shot if he's fresh out of water is like saying you think cyclops bests blasts are better than 100 tonner hitting strength?

they should be about even, tbh, if not higher.

rotiart

Originally posted by -Pr-
they should be about even, tbh, if not higher.

cyclops krakoa breaker = 100 tonner punch?
cyclops krakoa breaker > 100 tonner punch?
cyclops krakoa breaker < 100 tonner punch?

who is higher than whom?

TheKahn

Originally posted by rotiart
cyclops krakoa breaker = 100 tonner punch?
cyclops krakoa breaker > 100 tonner punch?
cyclops krakoa breaker < 100 tonner punch?

who is higher than whom?

hmm

There is a significant difference between the two isn't there? Assuming the total force is even, a 100 ton punch would be like getting hit in the hand with a hammer - while Cyclops' blast would be like getting your hand crushed in a vice. Its a temporary force vs a constant one (assuming Cyke keeps his eyes open that is).

snoopdogg

Does Namor have his black suit for this fight? Not that it matters that suit don't do jack sh!t anyways.

rotiart

Originally posted by TheKahn
hmm

There is a significant difference between the two isn't there? Assuming the total force is even, a 100 ton punch would be like getting hit in the hand with a hammer - while Cyclops' blast would be like getting your hand crushed in a vice. Its a temporary force vs a constant one (assuming Cyke keeps his eyes open that is).

See here's the issue... Will it destroy namor or just pummel him backwards after you take into account durability and hf...

And the krakoa island and forest clearing feats while impressive as area attacks... Don't tell us much as to the durability of the recipient....

And cyclops is a solar battery... How much charge does something like that take out of him... Cyclops isn't usually shown firing anytime soon after his massive blasts usually..

If that's a one time shot... And it doesn't down namor it's over for Scott..
If he has enough juice to blast the sky... He's still dealing with guy that wa holding onto human torch While he was over heating to easily melt through rock nearby....

Also namor has outrun fighterplanes in flight speed before which pits him at over 300mph flight speed... What's to say he can't dodge a good portion of the blast...

Look... I'm comparing namor to colossus durability wise... How ha cyclops fared at durable opponents... He has slowed juggs and omega red...

It's just difficult to gauge.

Wei Phoenix

Juggernaut is a horrible example since Scott's strongest blast, Namor's strongest punch and Colossus' strongest punch combined wouldn't do anything to him.

Omega Red would get pummeled by that blast.

redhotrash

I want to agree that Namor can avoid a good portion of what Scott and fire at him. Also Namor returns fire with his electric eel lighting attack lol.

rotiart

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Juggernaut is a horrible example since Scott's strongest blast, Namor's strongest punch and Colossus' strongest punch combined wouldn't do anything to him.

Omega Red would get pummeled by that blast.

Yah I know. but i couldn't think of a better example of durability off the top of my head where cyclops looks like he's trying to go all out.

namorsubby

as far as I'm seeing from the conversation going on here:

A. It is pretty much being argued whether or not Cyke's strongest Blast will take out namor......no real definite majority decision there.

......but we must remember:

B. There is absolutely no question as to what Namor's strongest Punch would do to scott.....or even something considerably less than his strongest.

also, I'm pretty sure namor could evade cyke at least a few times........and in flight his speed has proven too fast for wolvie to react to multiple times........if Namor charges in flight from the get-go, this fight could be over quickly, seeing as scott has no healing factor or super-human reaction time.

i also wanna say......besides just a few showings......cyke's beams are no higher than a mid-teir attack......and not sufficient to bring down big-hitting 100 tonners like namor.....whom is amongst those(like hulk,thor,etc) who have proven able to lift/withstand much more than a regular 100 class characters

-Pr-

Originally posted by rotiart
And cyclops is a solar battery... How much charge does something like that take out of him... Cyclops isn't usually shown firing anytime soon after his massive blasts usually..

the sunlight only powers the dimensional gateway in his eyes. it doesn't take THAT much out of him.

and he's not shown firing because when he uses his uber blast, there's rarely anyone else to shoot once he's done firing.

Originally posted by namorsubby
as far as I'm seeing from the conversation going on here:

A. It is pretty much being argued whether or not Cyke's strongest Blast will take out namor......no real definite majority decision there.

......but we must remember:

B. There is absolutely no question as to what Namor's strongest Punch would do to scott.....or even something considerably less than his strongest.

also, I'm pretty sure namor could evade cyke at least a few times........and in flight his speed has proven too fast for wolvie to react to multiple times........if Namor charges in flight from the get-go, this fight could be over quickly, seeing as scott has no healing factor or super-human reaction time.

i also wanna say......besides just a few showings......cyke's beams are no higher than a mid-teir attack......and not sufficient to bring down big-hitting 100 tonners like namor.....whom is amongst those(like hulk,thor,etc) who have proven able to lift/withstand much more than a regular 100 class characters

average level blasts from cyclops have been sufficient enough to destroy sentinels. aren't they around the 60 ton mark?

SamZED

Cyke's CIS is the reason he loses here, he wont go for the kill imo.
But CIS off he fries Namor.

Survivor19

Fries him with what? Laser vision he does not have?

Namor 7/10, IMO

Charlotte DeBel

Well, there's more than one case of friction-caused ingition of flammable stuff (the pressure of the blasts create quite a friction, I think some showings of that interesting side-effect are in Cyclops' RT).

rotiart

I'M interested in seeing what happens with the void in cyclops mind...
It's usually the case that heroes don't know the full potential or hold back a bit of power... But when the darkness overwhelms them they are shown things about their powers they never though of:

invis woman as malice
Emma frost in icemans mind

I wanna see Scott crack the moon... :-)

namorsubby

Originally posted by -Pr-
the sunlight only powers the dimensional gateway in his eyes. it doesn't take THAT much out of him.

and he's not shown firing because when he uses his uber blast, there's rarely anyone else to shoot once he's done firing.

average level blasts from cyclops have been sufficient enough to destroy sentinels. aren't they around the 60 ton mark? idk.......but namor has ripped them aparts like common thugs.....

Kris Blaze

Originally posted by namorsubby
idk.......but namor has ripped them aparts like common thugs.....
Namor ripped apart the FAR STRONGER versions. The O*N*E Sentinels were easily capable of restraining in Emma Frost, practically immune to Iceman's attacks and so on. The Mark II sentinels or so that Cyclops beat are from the dark ages compared to the technology that the O*N*E Sentinels are made out of.

namorsubby

you mean those one from the namor mini a few years back?..........well, what do ya know shifty

-Pr-

Originally posted by namorsubby
idk.......but namor has ripped them aparts like common thugs.....

i never disputed that.

redhotrash

This is a better debate/fight than I would have expected on paper. It should also be noted that Namor has been able to travel underground before at very quick speed. That could possibly help close the distance assuming his airborn attack fails

psycho gundam

redhotrash

Singer also doesnt know the difference between Jubilee and Rogue. I wouldnt trust him to pick Superman out of a lineup let alone tell me how someone's powers work.

namorsubby

Originally posted by -Pr-
i never disputed that.
sorry, i really wasn't clear in terms of elaborating on what i think that implies:

what i meant was if a regular sentinel is a 60 tonner....they should pose at least some kind of threat to the 100 class namor, right? and if the sentinels that namor ripped apart easily are even more powerful then the ones you mentioned......idk if cyke being able to take the other ones out with an average attack matters.......seeing as the advanced ones are in no way any kind of match for namor.

-Pr-

Originally posted by namorsubby
sorry, i really wasn't clear in terms of elaborating on what i think that implies:

what i meant was if a regular sentinel is a 60 tonner....they should pose at least some kind of threat to the 100 class namor, right? and if the sentinels that namor ripped apart easily are even more powerful then the ones you mentioned......idk if cyke being able to take the other ones out with an average attack matters.......seeing as the advanced ones are in no way any kind of match for namor.

my point was simply that cyclops can and has put down people in that range, and above if we're assuming Ord/that big monster from 33 has comparable strength to Colossus...

namorsubby

Originally posted by -Pr-
my point was simply that cyclops can and has put down people in that range, and above if we're assuming Ord/that big monster from 33 has comparable strength to Colossus... wow.........that was extemely cool(i just saw it now) eek!

-Pr-

Originally posted by namorsubby
wow.........that was extemely cool(i just saw it now) eek!

idk what that thing is, but if it has comparable strength to colossus, it probably doesn't possess comparable durability.......i can't see syke splitting him in half with any level of attack.

what comic is that from? that scene was awesome.

astonishing x-men 33 (came out last week).

with that attack, i could see him killing colossus. maybe not shear him in half, but crush him in to metallic pulp? yes.

namorsubby

Originally posted by -Pr-
astonishing x-men 33 (came out last week).

with that attack, i could see him killing colossus. maybe not shear him in half, but crush him in to metallic pulp? yes. yes, possibly.

-Pr-

Originally posted by namorsubby
yes, possibly.

namor obviously has the strength/durabilty/speed advantage. i just worry that if cyclops gets one shot that connects, namor would be in deep shit.

namorsubby

........at least one that looks anything thing like your sig.lol

-Pr-

Originally posted by namorsubby
........at least one that looks anything thing like your sig.lol

laughing out loud

Rage.Of.Olympus

Originally posted by -Pr-
when was that? cyclops use to say he was using full power a lot. he honestly seemed to just not know how powerful he was back then. i don't see namor tanking the oml blast or the one from AXM 33, especially considering cyclops can just pour it on continuously.

also, cyclops' blasts have been said to output more power than a nuclear reactor.

dunno if a missile has more than a reactor though.

Back in one of those X-men or Namor issues. Cyclops blasted Namor and Namor just stood there gloating and said that while his power will wane eventually, Namor's will not. And I specifically recall it being stated that Cyclops was doing his worst or something along those lines.

Really? Why not? What did those two blasts do that makes you think Namor cannot tank it besides it being a big light show?

All he did was blow away a half dead old Sentinel and in the recent one he cut in half the brood mutant. Both are some no name creatures.

Can you show Cyclops putting down a legit Class 100 with durability like Namor with his blasts? The closest I can think off is Green Scar and all he did was give him a hair cut. And Green Scar has shitty durability. Which of course is balanced out by his amazing healing factor.

Cool. Unfortunately taking into account Namor's own durability, on top of his energy absorbing skills means that Cyclops putting him down is extremely unlikely.

-Pr-

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Back in one of those X-men or Namor issues. Cyclops blasted Namor and Namor just stood there gloating and said that while his power will wane eventually, Namor's will not. And I specifically recall it being stated that Cyclops was doing his worst or something along those lines.

Really? Why not? What did those two blasts do that makes you think Namor cannot tank it besides it being a big light show?

All he did was blow away a half dead old Sentinel and in the recent one he cut in half the brood mutant. Both are some no name creatures.

Can you show Cyclops putting down a legit Class 100 with durability like Namor with his blasts? The closest I can think off is Green Scar and all he did was give him a hair cut. And Green Scar has shitty durability. Which of course is balanced out by his amazing healing factor.

Cool. Unfortunately taking into account Namor's own durability, on top of his energy absorbing skills means that Cyclops putting him down is extremely unlikely.

cyclops used to say "full power" all the time. it was stupid. he only started being shown at a reasonably high level when simonsen came on to x-factor and then sporadically through the years, though that can be attributed by his somewhat anal need for control.

the power output behind them.

do you consider ord a class 100? or namorita (i think he put her down recently).

i disagree.

Rage.Of.Olympus

Originally posted by -Pr-
cyclops used to say "full power" all the time. it was stupid. he only started being shown at a reasonably high level when simonsen came on to x-factor and then sporadically through the years, though that can be attributed by his somewhat anal need for control.

the power output behind them.

do you consider ord a class 100? or namorita (i think he put her down recently).

i disagree.

If he use to say full power all the time I'm assuming he was using full power when he needed to. At the very least it proves that Namor can no sell Cyclops attacks.

Which have done what exactly?

Don't recall the Namorita incident. Ord from Astonishing X-men? What did he do that puts him in Namor's league in terms of durability? I can't recall anything but it's been a while.

Why? Namor can rip his head off easily, and taking into account his speed/flight, he can dodge almost all day or swoop in for the kill ridiculously swiftly. Throw in his durability which has already shown it can shrug off Cyclop's attack on top of his energy absorbing skills and Namor takes it in a 10/10 stomp in my opinion.

-Pr-

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If he use to say full power all the time I'm assuming he was using full power when he needed to. At the very least it proves that Namor can no sell Cyclops attacks.

Which have done what exactly?

Don't recall the Namorita incident. Ord from Astonishing X-men? What did he do that puts him in Namor's league in terms of durability? I can't recall anything but it's been a while.

Why? Namor can rip his head off easily, and taking into account his speed/flight, he can dodge almost all day or swoop in for the kill ridiculously swiftly. Throw in his durability which has already shown it can shrug off Cyclop's attack on top of his energy absorbing skills and Namor takes it in a 10/10 stomp in my opinion.

i disagree, considering that those showings directly contradict consistently established character traits.

cleared half a forest, satisfied the phoenix's hunger, broken through onslaught's armour after it had been cracked, killed the brood monster, and output more energy than a nuclear reactor.

that's why i asked. various breakworld people could hang with colossus (including ord).

cyclops has tagged people faster than namor, even in the old days.

Nihilist

Namor wrecks him.

Rage.Of.Olympus

Originally posted by -Pr-
i disagree, considering that those showings directly contradict consistently established character traits.

cleared half a forest, satisfied the phoenix's hunger, broken through onslaught's armour after it had been cracked, killed the brood monster, and output more energy than a nuclear reactor.

that's why i asked. various breakworld people could hang with colossus (including ord).

cyclops has tagged people faster than namor, even in the old days.

But they are not isolated going simply by what you're position. If I see Cyclops stating his going all out against say Namor or Hulk back in the day, you cannot expect me to ignore. I don't see why they aren't valid.

Half a forest, a brood monster. How is that even worth mentioning when we are talking about Namor?

I don't recall this so have the scans or issue number? Just saying Phoenix isn't impressive. Thor's one shotted the Phoenix, and Magneto has wrecked Phoenix in the past.

We already know Namor can absorb energy more or less equal to that of a Nuclear Reactor. I even recall him shrugging off a Nuclear Warhead once, but I don't think he was directly at ground zero, but he was pretty damn close.

The Onslaught incident is the most impressive (Barring the Phoenix until I see it.) but I'm pretty sure it was Thor who flew and broke through the armor. Cyclops attacks along with others cracked it enough so they could see Xavier though.

I do recall Cyclops tagging Northstar etc. but then again plenty of people have dodge it. Heck I've seen Magneto do it.

And Namor is pretty damn fast. His blitzed Hercules once to an extent.

-Pr-

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
But they are not isolated going simply by what you're position. If I see Cyclops stating his going all out against say Namor or Hulk back in the day, you cannot expect me to ignore. I don't see why they aren't valid.

Half a forest, a brood monster. How is that even worth mentioning when we are talking about Namor?

I don't recall this so have the scans or issue number? Just saying Phoenix isn't impressive. Thor's one shotted the Phoenix, and Magneto has wrecked Phoenix in the past.

We already know Namor can absorb energy more or less equal to that of a Nuclear Reactor. I even recall him shrugging off a Nuclear Warhead once, but I don't think he was directly at ground zero, but he was pretty damn close.

The Onslaught incident is the most impressive (Barring the Phoenix until I see it.) but I'm pretty sure it was Thor who flew and broke through the armor. Cyclops attacks along with others cracked it enough so they could see Xavier though.

I do recall Cyclops tagging Northstar etc. but then again plenty of people have dodge it. Heck I've seen Magneto do it.

And Namor is pretty damn fast. His blitzed Hercules once to an extent.

because they're contradicted by more recent (and more consistent)showings. do you have any of the scans?

we're talking about veritable blinks.

issue numbers for which? the phoenix was in phoenix endsong.

how is satisfying the phoenix's infinite hunger not impressive? we're talking about a fully powered phoenix here, too.

his blast was continous. so it's not just a once off explosion. we're talking constant pressure if he keeps his eyes open.

its been a while since i read it, but iirc nate and joseph cracked it, then cyclops made a hole that thor made larger.

he's also tagged pietro.

i know namor is fast. i'm not disputing that.

Rage.Of.Olympus

Originally posted by -Pr-
because they're contradicted by more recent (and more consistent)showings. do you have any of the scans?

we're talking about veritable blinks.

issue numbers for which? the phoenix was in phoenix endsong.

how is satisfying the phoenix's infinite hunger not impressive? we're talking about a fully powered phoenix here, too.

his blast was continous. so it's not just a once off explosion. we're talking constant pressure if he keeps his eyes open.

its been a while since i read it, but iirc nate and joseph cracked it, then cyclops made a hole that thor made larger.

he's also tagged pietro.

i know namor is fast. i'm not disputing that.

The first incident happened in X-men #6. I don't know the issue of the second incident.

Seeing as how he has no control of his power with his visor off, and his blast is nearly omnidirectional the first incident doesn't impress me. The second incident is a much more impressive showing off control than it is of power output in my opinion. Incinerating half a brood monster is nothing impressive. At all.

Okay. The Phoenix Endsong incident was in the mini where they trapped the Phoenix in some sort of cage etc.? I don't recall it being full powered. A full powered Phoenix being the Cosmic Entity Phoenix. And I recall him blasting into the container, ricocheting or something along those lines. Got any scans? I can look it up but I'm not on my pc so it will take a moment. My pc is wacky recently.

I'm pretty sure there combined attacks made a crack so you could see Xavier's head. Thor then flew in through Onslaught.

Pietro I recall back in the day.

Never said you were.

-Pr-

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The first incident happened in X-men #6. I don't know the issue of the second incident.

Seeing as how he has no control of his power with his visor off, and his blast is nearly omnidirectional the first incident doesn't impress me. The second incident is a much more impressive showing off control than it is of power output in my opinion. Incinerating half a brood monster is nothing impressive. At all.

Okay. The Phoenix Endsong incident was in the mini where they trapped the Phoenix in some sort of cage etc.? I don't recall it being full powered. A full powered Phoenix being the Cosmic Entity Phoenix. And I recall him blasting into the container, ricocheting or something along those lines. Got any scans? I can look it up but I'm not on my pc so it will take a moment. My pc is wacky recently.

I'm pretty sure there combined attacks made a crack so you could see Xavier's head. Thor then flew in through Onslaught.

Pietro I recall back in the day.

Never said you were.

ill have a look shortly.

he has control of his power with his visor off. he simply can't turn it off. he can adjust the width, height and strength of the beam as much as he likes.

its on my hard drive. might take a few mins. and no. it was emma possessed by the phoenix.

it was cracked before cyclops shot it. cyclops broke through, and then thor made the hole larger, iirc.

good. uhuh

namorsubby

i remember when he tagged quicksilver.......pietro dodged him a million times.....and he got him with an extremely lucky shot......i remember cyke saying something about "being blind as a bat" when he made it.

besides that, namor can fly at around the speed he runs, the speed of sound........if pietro can dodge him on the ground, namor can in flight

Rage.Of.Olympus

Originally posted by -Pr-
ill have a look shortly.

he has control of his power with his visor off. he simply can't turn it off. he can adjust the width, height and strength of the beam as much as he likes.

its on my hard drive. might take a few mins. and no. it was emma possessed by the phoenix.

it was cracked before cyclops shot it. cyclops broke through, and then thor made the hole larger, iirc.

good. uhuh

Cool.

Well that's true, as he can squint his eyes etc. I just meant in terms of intensity. He can't control how much power comes out of his eyes. Doesn't really matter how narrow or wide the beam is.

I just logged into my PC.

Apparently the Phoenix was really weakened and it needed Cyclops optic energy to survive. Once Emma became the host, they were dropped in the Beast's egg where they were in a perfect equilibrium. Apparently Cyclops eyes were releasing what seemed to be an unlimited amount of energy that satisfied the Phoenix in Emma's body unlimited hunger. Unfortunately though, the Phoenix started burning Emma out apparently. From what I understand, the egg prevented any energy from escaping, so everything was in a constant cycle. None of Cyclops' energy would escape so it would be a perfect cycle until they died.

No, Cyclop's didn't break through from what I recall. He combined with their other blasts did enough damage, that the armor cracked and you could see Xavier's face. Thor then flew in and broke through.

-Pr-

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Cool.

Well that's true, as he can squint his eyes etc. I just meant in terms of intensity. He can't control how much power comes out of his eyes. Doesn't really matter how narrow or wide the beam is.

I just logged into my PC.

Apparently the Phoenix was really weakened and it needed Cyclops optic energy to survive. Once Emma became the host, they were dropped in the Beast's egg where they were in a perfect equilibrium. Apparently Cyclops eyes were releasing what seemed to be an unlimited amount of energy that satisfied the Phoenix in Emma's body unlimited hunger. Unfortunately though, the Phoenix started burning Emma out apparently. From what I understand, the egg prevented any energy from escaping, so everything was in a constant cycle. None of Cyclops' energy would escape so it would be a perfect cycle until they died.

No, Cyclop's didn't break through from what I recall. He combined with their other blasts did enough damage, that the armor cracked and you could see Xavier's face. Thor then flew in and broke through.

he can. he can control the intensity of the blast psionically. he just can't shut it off all the way.

i don't think it needed the energy to survive. it had a hunger that it needed satisfied, and scott provided it.

if you could see xavier's face, that would be more than a crack. that would be a hole stick out tongue

Rage.Of.Olympus

Originally posted by -Pr-
he can. he can control the intensity of the blast psionically. he just can't shut it off all the way.

i don't think it needed the energy to survive. it had a hunger that it needed satisfied, and scott provided it.

if you could see xavier's face, that would be more than a crack. that would be a hole stick out tongue

I always thought Cyclops entire shtick was that if he takes off his visor he can't control the intensity of his attack. Well whatever.

I'm pretty sure that it needed the optic energy because it was extremely weak, but more than that it just wanted Scott because that's what Jean wanted. At least that's how I understood it.

Well as I recall from the angle Xavier's face was right at the edge of the armor so it was akin to a crack. I think it was even stated that the armor was cracked/breached. A hole would indicate something deep.

-Pr-

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I always thought Cyclops entire shtick was that if he takes off his visor he can't control the intensity of his attack. Well whatever.

I'm pretty sure that it needed the optic energy because it was extremely weak, but more than that it just wanted Scott because that's what Jean wanted. At least that's how I understood it.

Well as I recall from the angle Xavier's face was right at the edge of the armor so it was akin to a crack. I think it was even stated that the armor was cracked/breached. A hole would indicate something deep.

it's that he can't turn it off. stick out tongue

maybe. it's been a while since i read it.

only if the armour itself was incredibly thick, i think.

so you honestly think namor could tank a full on cyclops blast?

Lord Feron

Sorry random question - Anyone ever read that X-Man unlimited like 1 or 2 when cyke is in the tundra with prof x and a mentally shattered storm? He was using his beams through this ribbon and not only that he appeared to be sodring something together in the ship to fix it... like huh? How can that happen?

Rage.Of.Olympus

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's that he can't turn it off. stick out tongue

maybe. it's been a while since i read it.

only if the armour itself was incredibly thick, i think.

so you honestly think namor could tank a full on cyclops blast?

Cool.

Cool.

Well Onslaught was drawn weird. His upper body seemed big but his torso wasn't proportionally as thick.

Unless they've had an encounter where Cyclops harms him I really don't see why not. Especially since recently Green Scar tanked his attack full on and was unharmed except a few scratches and a hair cut. Namor tanking Cyclops attacks in the past simply supports my stance more.

-Pr-

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Cool.

Cool.

Well Onslaught was drawn weird. His upper body seemed big but his torso wasn't proportionally as thick.

Unless they've had an encounter where Cyclops harms him I really don't see why not. Especially since recently Green Scar tanked his attack full on and was unharmed except a few scratches and a hair cut. Namor tanking Cyclops attacks in the past simply supports my stance more.

by green scar you don't mean wwh, do you?

Rage.Of.Olympus

Originally posted by -Pr-
by green scar you don't mean wwh, do you?

Pretty much. Why?

-Pr-

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Pretty much. Why?

it wasn't a full power blast. pak was high.

i don't care what cyclops said. he isn't actually capable of doing full power blasts with his visor on. he hasn't been since onslaught, when they finally realised that the slit in his visor isn't big enough to allow enough energy through to constitute a high/max powered blast.

Rage.Of.Olympus

Originally posted by -Pr-
it wasn't a full power blast. pak was high.

i don't care what cyclops said. he isn't actually capable of doing full power blasts with his visor on. he hasn't been since onslaught, when they finally realised that the slit in his visor isn't big enough to allow enough energy through to constitute a high/max powered blast.

He said he was going full power.....

It wasn't written by Pak.

Really? I just thought that the visor simply prevented the blast from being as wide as it would be without it and that if he let loose the blast would simply be concentrated.

Well at the very least it should constitute as a blast close enough to full power so that it's safe to say, Cyclops can do jack shit to World War Hulk.

-Pr-

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He said he was going full power.....

It wasn't written by Pak.

Really? I just thought that the visor simply prevented the blast from being as wide as it would be without it and that if he let loose the blast would simply be concentrated.

Well at the very least it should constitute as a blast close enough to full power so that it's safe to say, Cyclops can do jack shit to World War Hulk.

sorry, not pak. whoever it was.

and yes, he said it, which just makes it writer error, as it's contradicted by more consistent showings.

the visor's slit is simply not large enough to allow a blast as high and wide as his full power one is to escape. the inside is lined with ruby quartz to reflect/absorb any blast he fires. yes it focuses the blast, but only what part of the blast actually escapes the visor.

no, it shouldn't, tbh. no offence, and i'm not saying that he can take wwh, but cyclops has shown over the years that he can't really replicate the destructive force with his visor on that he can when it's not.

Rage.Of.Olympus

Originally posted by -Pr-
sorry, not pak. whoever it was.

and yes, he said it, which just makes it writer error, as it's contradicted by more consistent showings.

the visor's slit is simply not large enough to allow a blast as high and wide as his full power one is to escape. the inside is lined with ruby quartz to reflect/absorb any blast he fires. yes it focuses the blast, but only what part of the blast actually escapes the visor.

no, it shouldn't, tbh. no offence, and i'm not saying that he can take wwh, but cyclops has shown over the years that he can't really replicate the destructive force with his visor on that he can when it's not.

Well, in any case it was pretty clear that what it was intended to show that Cyclops can't do jack shit to Green Scar.

-Pr-

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Well, in any case it was pretty clear that what it was intended to show that Cyclops can't do jack shit to Green Scar.

which is what happened to 99% of the characters during wwh, so i don't see what the difference is, tbh.

Rage.Of.Olympus

Originally posted by -Pr-
which is what happened to 99% of the characters during wwh, so i don't see what the difference is, tbh.

Okay...

peejayd

Originally posted by -Pr-
its been a while since i read it, but iirc nate and joseph cracked it, then cyclops made a hole that thor made larger.

* pr's right... here's the scan:

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2802/cykevsonslaught.jpg

* re: hulk... cyke said he's going to max power:

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/4328/scotthulkpis2sy8.jpg

* it's really incorrect based on more consistent showings of his maximum power... maybe the writer made wrong choice of words because cyke still has his visor on... maybe it was supposed to mean that he would adjust his visor to pour out a wide-angle blast just like what was shown...

* bah! it's was really not full power in my book... and by stating cyke was able to dish out unlimited amount of energy, it means that if he blasts namor continously, namor's not going to close their distance, thus cyke winning the match... just my two cents... wink

redhotrash

lol, Hulk walked through a Black Bolt attack, lets ignore that event

peejayd

Originally posted by redhotrash
lol, Hulk walked through a Black Bolt attack, lets ignore that event

* isn't that a skrull BB? confused

anyway, just my two cents, Hulk might be able to endure the pain of the full-powered optic blast but i doubt he can withstand the force... he should be knocked back or even thrown back... just my opinion... and a carefully-placed optic blast in Hulk's temple or jaw might even KO him... i mean, hey, a pure concussive unlimited force with the strength to punch hole to a mountain and level a forest, i think it's possible... much moreso to Namor...

* just like what happened here:

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1600/cykevsjuggs9sw.gif

* yeah, it's not comic but i hope you get my point... after that, Juggy got back, walked through the blast and clenched Cyke's face with his hand iirc... but he was thrown back at first, that's my point... big grin

yestinchong

Just my two cents in my familiar Cyclops advocate role:

- Someone asked a while back in this thread when Cyke got a power upgrade. There is one definite time in canon, and that is when Cyke comes back from Krakoa (so UXM #94 or so) and his powers return. His blasts are so powerful compared to before that he can't control his balance and the force of the beams send him flying backwards. His visor was re-modified to the fatter version he had throughout all of Claremont's run. Which, if we're being picky, seems to get retconned in Morrison's run, where Grant decides to give Cyke a thinner visor again.

- Cyke consistently shows much more power in his blasts at around the start of X-Factor (ie. in the 1980s). Kudos to pr for identifying this period. If anyone ever has the time to read all 70+ issues of the original team's run, you'll see how much the team rely on Cyke's blasts to keep them going. For one thing, he "kills" Apocalypse with them, which is a pretty high end feat IMO.

- Although it's never been explicitly stated, i really don't think Cyclops needs that much sunlight to maintain his blasts. It kind of got retconned in the official MU Handbooks, where they stated his blasts were extradimensional energy. To be honest, although Cyke has looked pooped when blasting WWH (or Green Scar), that's the only time in some 20 odd years he's looked fatigued using his blasts. My guess (and it's only a guess) is that Cyke has matured a bit and physically become stronger - hence he can maintain his output a lot more easily. It's akin to Colossus growing up in the comics and increasing his strength over the years.

- Without the visor, Cyke's blasts defintiely have a massive radius increase, and i'd agree with previous posters that his most powerful blasts have all been with his visor off. So IMO, visorless blast > visored blast (in terms of concussive force). This is just my opinion though.

- Someone asked about what he did in Unlimited X-Men #1. Where he appeared to be fixing the hull of the Blackbird. I always thought the focussed force through his shard of rubyquartz hammered the metal back into place - he controlled the intensity to make his blasts "malleable", as opposed to simply blowing a new hole in the hull.

yestinchong

- I also feel that his blasts ARE psionically controlled - as stated, there are many instances where he fires without touching his hands to his head, and also with his hands on show and not clenched. Hell, there are even issues where he seems to be able to fire through his glasses without removing them! Take the most recent UXM as an example of this. Or check out the Cyclops respect thread to see him fire without using his hands at all.

- Just how powerful are Cyke's blasts? I'd say in terms of pure punching force, when he goes all out, they are comparable to the big-hitters in the MU. For example, is Colossus' hardest punch more powerful than Cyke's most powerful blast (ooohhh....that's an idea for a thread)? Difficult to say. At best, Cyke's blasts have been quoted as being able to pulverise adamantium (see UXM X-Cutioner's Song). At worst, they hardly dent a Sentinel.

- Just how fast are they? At best, they've been quoted as speed of light. I wholeheartedly agree though that he's missed plenty of shots in his time too.

^^^ What do these two examples show? IMO, it shows how wildly inconsistent comic book writing can be.

- Can they KO Namor? To be honest, i don't know enough about the guy to make a comment. I'm not even going to debate this particular fight. All i can do is tell you all about how powerful Cyke is, and then the decision comes to you! For whatever reason, he's my fave MU character and as such, i do know *a bit* about him! smile

peejayd

* you know a lot well, my humble friend... smile

quanchi112

Namor wins.

rotiart

Here's the problem with the max power argument...
Cyclops say it was max power and you guys are saying it's not because he didn't take off his visor...

In that case... Even though darkseid says he used the omega effect on superman... It can't have been the omega effect because if it was... Superman would be gone.

You can't have it both ways... If cyclops says it was max power... I accept it as it is.

peejayd

* the problem with that, is that in more consistent showings, Cyke removes his visor to unleash his full power... but in the WWH arc, eventhough he said it, he did not remove his visor... i speculate that what he means was, he was going to maximize or adjust his visor to it's fullest potential, that might be acceptable for me... wink

-Pr-

Originally posted by rotiart
Here's the problem with the max power argument...
Cyclops say it was max power and you guys are saying it's not because he didn't take off his visor...

In that case... Even though darkseid says he used the omega effect on superman... It can't have been the omega effect because if it was... Superman would be gone.

You can't have it both ways... If cyclops says it was max power... I accept it as it is.

that's not actually the same thing.

darkseid doesn't have any part of his costume that stops him from firing a full power blast. Cyclops does, and it's FACTUALLY shown to block a considerable portion of his blast.

common sense comes in to play.

namorsubby

well then.......scott loses, because he is obviously a filthy liar.lol

BTW, doesn't matter............namor either way IMO

peejayd

* i don't think Namor can withstand the blast Cyke gave to WWH even with his visor on... just my two cents... smile

namorsubby

Originally posted by peejayd
* i don't think Namor can withstand the blast Cyke gave to WWH even with his visor on... just my two cents... smile

i think so, because:

1. WWH didn't seem to be too much detered by it.......it "burned" his flesh i guess but you notice that he didn't go backwards or express any vocal signs of pain......like most comics would showcase if they were meaning to emphasize that an attack is really affecting a character. if i would've saw a "AAAAHHH" OR ARRRGGHH" or something, I may have felt differently.

btw, according to my understanding.....isn't hulk's skin more regenrative than durable?

2. namor has withstood cyke beams before.......even shrugged them off

peejayd

* visorless? confused

rotiart

Or rather than saying the writer is wrong.. You can just as easily say the artist rendered the picture wrong... Which is more common sense since cyclops tells us he is going max power and manages to damage the hulk somewhat.

namorsubby

Originally posted by peejayd
* visorless? confused

im not completely convinced his visors are that much of a problem........considering he said he was giving it his all with WWH,and I believe also in at least one of his instances with namor.

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by -Pr-
that's not actually the same thing.

darkseid doesn't have any part of his costume that stops him from firing a full power blast. Cyclops does, and it's FACTUALLY shown to block a considerable portion of his blast.

common sense comes in to play.

I suppose that's kind of makes sense, although in Christos Gages defence Cyclops has been stated to have gone to max power a few times with his visor on under Stan Lee and Roy Thomas's pen.

ExodusCloak

In this case it should be noted that it's revealed 4 issues later that Cyclops subconciously weakened his beam so he wouldn't kill Angel. But the point is he still thought he went max with his visor on.

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2883/uncannyxmen26page18.th.jpg

This next case is self explanatory.
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6919/tieinsv113page17.th.jpghttp://img44.imageshack.us/img44/4885/tieinsv113page18.th.jpg

namorsubby

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
In this case it should be noted that it's revealed 4 issues later that Cyclops subconciously weakened his beam so he wouldn't kill Angel. But the point is he still thought he went max with his visor on.

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2883/uncannyxmen26page18.th.jpg

This next case is self explanatory.
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6919/tieinsv113page17.th.jpghttp://img44.imageshack.us/img44/4885/tieinsv113page18.th.jpg angel is a teammate........I could understand scott subconsciously pulling a shot with him, but a hostile sub-mariner that he has encountered for the first time?

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by namorsubby
angel is a teammate........I could understand scott subconsciously pulling a shot with him, but a hostile sub-mariner that he has encountered for the first time?

stick out tongue

My point was more that it wasn't Gages fault there even though pr's explanation makes sense.

As for the Namor thing I thought the scene was self explanatory.

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4558/uncannyxmen6page20.th.jpghttp://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3464/uncannyxmen6page21.th.jpg