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Cap gets his shield, Elektra gets her pair of Sai. No fancy schmancy powers outside of pure physical stats.

Steve destroys her, right?

capt would win majority, but would be severely wounded

shield >>>> sais

So your taking away her telepathy? interesting and your also hindering his standard equiptment , seems someone trying to make capt win.......

Originally posted by Battlehammer
So your taking away her telepathy? interesting and your also hindering his standard equiptment , seems someone trying to make capt win....... both have their standard equipment

stop being paranoid

personally I would've preferred her tp on

elektra will beat him , lets face it elektra is a league above captain america in skills she is always beating wolverine who is the equel of cap in skills she will kill him

Originally posted by Starscream M
both have their standard equipment

stop being paranoid

personally I would've preferred her tp on
No they don't god your ignorance. You do realize she uses a lot more weapons then her sia's right?



not beign paranoid, I am stating a fact.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No they don't god your ignorance. You do realize she uses a lot more weapons then her sia's right?



not beign paranoid, I am stating a fact. sais are her standard preferred equipment

so its not at all unfair to give her sais


but yes, sais suck vs a shield

Originally posted by Starscream M
sais are her standard preferred equipment

so its not at all unfair to give her sais


but yes, sais suck vs a shield
No there not. She carries and assortment of weapons as standard equipment. She uses her swords jsut as frequently as she would sia's. She also uses frequently an assortment of range wepaons.


It unfair to limit her equipment to sai's.



Sai's are primarily defensive weapons designed to fight piercing weapons such as swords.

So yes they be rather useless against a shield.

sais are mainly a weapon for countering other bladed weapons, the shield is a big problem here. Physically she can match Cap, save strength - which is made up for with skill. Providing she doesnt slug it out, id see her nerving him ftw. But with the shield in play i see Cap taking a solid 6/

cap wins with easy

Originally posted by Lexodus
cap wins with easy No he takes a slight majority.

he wins with easy because gorgon beat her with easy and we know cap can beat gorgon so he wins with easy

Originally posted by Lexodus
he wins with easy because gorgon beat her with easy and we know cap can beat gorgon so he wins with easy

laughcry

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Cap gets his shield, Elektra gets her pair of Sai. No fancy schmancy powers outside of pure physical stats.

Steve destroys her, right?


Hmmm....if they are fighting in character I say Steve goes easy on her because she's a woman and is rewarded for his chivalry with a sai in the nether-region. Elektra 6/10.

Originally posted by Lexodus
he wins with easy because gorgon beat her with easy and we know cap can beat gorgon so he wins with easy No.

yes

Elektra.

Much, much faster than Cap.
Probably stronger and more durable too.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Elektra.

Much, much faster than Cap.
Probably stronger and more durable too.

gorgon defeat elektra without even getting touched

Originally posted by Lexodus
yes

You're clearly not familiar with Gorgon.

He's officially stronger.

Faster.

More durable.

Can turn Steve into stone.

Originally posted by Lexodus
gorgon defeat elektra without even getting touched Cap would also get beaten by gorgon so what's your point?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You're clearly not familiar with Gorgon.

He's officially stronger.

Faster.

More durable.

Can turn Steve into stone.

this is not captain america vs gorgon debate stop trolling

Originally posted by Lexodus
gorgon defeat elektra without even getting touched

That just shows how formidable he is.

Originally posted by Lexodus
this is not captain america vs gorgon debate stop trolling

You're the one who brought that up

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That just shows how formidable he is.

and cap is better fighter then gorgon and stop trolling its not capt vs gorgon thread

Originally posted by Lexodus
this is not captain america vs gorgon debate stop trolling Were you not the person who mentioned gorgon?

Originally posted by Lexodus
and cap is better fighter then gorgon and stop trolling its not capt vs gorgon thread You are the one trolling you obviously know nothing about Electra and base your opinion on a fight she had with gorgon.

Originally posted by Lexodus
and cap is better fighter then gorgon and stop trolling its not capt vs gorgon thread

Yes, arguably he's more skilled. But he's not that better that he could overcome Gorgon's stats and other powers.

Originally posted by Lexodus
and cap is better fighter then gorgon and stop trolling its not capt vs gorgon thread

Gorgon > Cap
Gorgon > Elektra

so how does this = Cap > Elektra?

WAKE UP!!

captain america is the better fighter and he will beat gorgon remember he was able to fight with hulk and gorgon was beat up by some giant retard so cap>>gorgon

Originally posted by Lexodus
captain america is the better fighter and he will beat gorgon remember he was able to fight with hulk and gorgon was beat up by some giant retard so cap>>gorgon

Ronin a.k.a. Hawkeye is (also arguably) better fighter than Ares. Does that mean he would beat him...?

Wolverine fought Hulk more times and Gorgon was kicking his ass.

Cap wouldn't fare better against Stonewall and Gorgon didn't lose that fight.

Nm, i'm not totally up to date on Elektra=the edit.

Originally posted by Lexodus
he wins with easy because gorgon beat her with easy and we know cap can beat gorgon so he wins with easy

Cap.

I just don't see anything that would put Elektra above Cap in speed or skill for that matter

Cap wins with these stipulations.

If Elektra had more equipment, or if the shield was taken out of play, she's take a majority.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Ronin a.k.a. Hawkeye is (also arguably) better fighter than Ares. Does that mean he would beat him...?

Wolverine fought Hulk more times and Gorgon was kicking his ass.

Cap wouldn't fare better against Stonewall and Gorgon didn't lose that fight.

When did gorgon fight stonewall?

Originally posted by carver9
When did gorgon fight stonewall?
secret warriors

CA should win the majority, but not without getting bloody...

I would still give Cap a slight majority.

cap.



i honestly think elektra gets a little over-rated sometimes

Originally posted by namorsubby
cap.



i honestly think elektra gets a little over-rated sometimes

she's the greatest ninja on the planet, who has demonstrated the ability to WTFPWN wolverine at will, genuinly toying with him, she paralized him within a few moves ffs...

Originally posted by Juk3n
she's the greatest ninja on the planet, who has demonstrated the ability to WTFPWN wolverine at will, genuinly toying with him, she paralized him within a few moves ffs...
Hey now I am all for Elektra and all, but lets clarify a few things with context. She really never pwned him. We have that one event were wolverine had the mind of a beast. We have another were he play her for a sap to get to the sword and techincally won. Then we have that maybe cannon fight were he had her dead to rights at the end of the fight and she stated he was better then her, but his unwilliness to kill her gave her an edge. Then there was the enemy of the state instance in which she used plot device off 20 plus shield agents to gain an advantage. Then there reember which may be cannon, was a book pritty much and had quite a few contradictions if I remeber correctly

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon

Probably stronger and more durable too. lol

Originally posted by Juk3n
she's the greatest ninja on the planet, who has demonstrated the ability to WTFPWN wolverine at will, genuinly toying with him, she paralized him within a few moves ffs... wolverine>elektra


BTW, she is the greastest ninja.........but all the other ninjas suck.......they get destroyed by the tons just like all the other henchman




captain america FTW

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Elektra.

Much, much faster than Cap.
Probably stronger and more durable too.

wow you sir are one retarded **** arent you? cap is by far stronger and more durable then elektra you idiot god

Originally posted by gogoogadgetgo
wow you sir are one retarded **** arent you? cap is by far stronger and more durable then elektra you idiot god Except your wrong troll

Originally posted by gogoogadgetgo
wow you sir are one retarded **** arent you? cap is by far stronger and more durable then elektra you idiot god dude...your right about Cap, but dat post is WAY outa line......

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Hey now I am all for Elektra and all, but lets clarify a few things with context. She really never pwned him. We have that one event were wolverine had the mind of a beast. We have another were he play her for a sap to get to the sword and techincally won. Then we have that maybe cannon fight were he had her dead to rights at the end of the fight and she stated he was better then her, but his unwilliness to kill her gave her an edge. Then there was the enemy of the state instance in which she used plot device off 20 plus shield agents to gain an advantage. Then there reember which may be cannon, was a book pritty much and had quite a few contradictions if I remeber correctly

She stated he was better than her, and then asked him why he always lost to her. She was referencing his physical advantages are how they were inferior to her power set.

She was also thrashing him around like a chump shortly after the Weapon X crap ended. His HF and memories were screwed up though so it's just another plotty encounter.

Then there was Wolverine stating on panel during the Gorgon fight that went something like, "Since Elektra, worlds greatest ninja, was taken out what chance do I have?"

Taking all of these encounters as a whole, I think it's safe to say Elektra is, at the very least, Wolverine's equal in combat. I would personally put her slightly above him but I acknowledge she's always been my favorite Marvel character and I'm probably a tad bias.


------


Anyway, what's Cap's best strength feat? Elektra's got some crazy stuff but all high end street levelers do.

I'd say they're probably on par with each other durability wise. She's taken some nasty hits.

In a comic Elektra wold lose.. you know because it's CAPTAIN AMERICA.
But no PIS no CIS she'd take slight majority even without tp. With tp and chi-amp she'd stomp him.

and those ^ were effing BIG chains too


Elektras only avantage here is her speed & agilty - maybe

Originally posted by Konton
She stated he was better than her, and then asked him why he always lost to her. She was referencing his physical advantages are how they were inferior to her power set.

She was also thrashing him around like a chump shortly after the Weapon X crap ended. His HF and memories were screwed up though so it's just another plotty encounter.

Then there was Wolverine stating on panel during the Gorgon fight that went something like, "Since Elektra, worlds greatest ninja, was taken out what chance do I have?"

Taking all of these encounters as a whole, I think it's safe to say Elektra is, at the very least, Wolverine's equal in combat. I would personally put her slightly above him but I acknowledge she's always been my favorite Marvel character and I'm probably a tad bias.


------


Anyway, what's Cap's best strength feat? Elektra's got some crazy stuff but all high end street levelers do.

I'd say they're probably on par with each other durability wise. She's taken some nasty hits. I agree with Elektra's placement here and my bias is obviously towards Wolverine.

i don't know too much about elektra, but i've always put her around DD in skill... DD whom Cap mopped the floor with.


So... cap.

Elektra does the chain thing.

http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/?action=view&current=chains.jpg

Does the smash down giant golden door thing.

http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/?action=view&current=doorkick2.jpg

Crushes a man's head with her grip strength.

http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/?action=view&current=facecrusher.jpg

Lugs a man up a ladder with one hand after being on the run for a time.

http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/?action=view&current=minimalstrength.jpg

She takes a slam from Luke like it was common.

http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/?action=view&current=lukecage-1.jpg

One shots a nearly indestructible cyborg with an antique katana.

http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/?action=view&current=Perry4.jpg

http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/?action=view&current=Perry1.jpg

Swats away Wolverine and Mac casually.

http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/?action=view&current=mac.jpg

She also broke out of a straight jacket.
Was punching holes through people during her Elektra: Assassin run.
Threw a sai so hard it went through the barrel of a gun and took off some cannon fodders hand.
She was moving so fast under water she was a blur.

She was taking down SKRULLS. She was taking hits from Colossus' Skrull.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Originally posted by carver9
When did gorgon fight stonewall?

Secret Warriors #6.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No there not. She carries and assortment of weapons as standard equipment. She uses her swords jsut as frequently as she would sia's. She also uses frequently an assortment of range wepaons.


It unfair to limit her equipment to sai's.



Sai's are primarily defensive weapons designed to fight piercing weapons such as swords.

So yes they be rather useless against a shield.

False. for every time you show me that she uses a different weapon I can show you 3 different times she used her sais. It is common sense that sais is her standard gear and nothing else.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Elektra.

Much, much faster than Cap.
Probably stronger and more durable too.

You guys need to go somewhere for real.

Cap is the fastest peak human in comics.
He is also the strongest and most durable of them too. This fight is stupid. A more interesting fight would be Steve with no shield vs. Elektra with sais.

no contest about his superior strenght & durablity...but speed? what r Caps best speed feats?

(yeah in know hes suppose to have dodge a bullet but iirc it look more like he knew where it was gonna be fired before it was fired. not sure tho)



anyway her speed is her only chance to get a few wins (if any)

Originally posted by h1a8
You guys need to go somewhere for real.

Cap is the fastest peak human in comics.
He is also the strongest and most durable of them too. This fight is stupid.

Cap is not faster than Elektra, not in movement, OR reaction/combat speed. Deflecting individual bullets with her sais is >> anything Cap has on panel. And i am hugely Cap Bias.

And as for him being (so cut and dry) "The strongest and most durable" There's a 100 billion page Batman vs Cap thread a few places down that might beg to differ. But if you have such conclusive proof, please share it.

Or is this another "Spider-man could never be hit by a street leveller" argument, where your own opinions take precident over the facts?

Captain america is the perfect human specimen, granted human physicality to the peak of abilities, and that includes strength, stamina, and others as well as speed and reaction time.

just coz elektra is written and drawn with her sweet ninja moves does not make her faster than cap.

You telling me that a human (altho superbly conditioned) is faster than someone who is one notch above the peak human? So what's the use of the super soldier serum if normal people can just train extremely hard and be just as good as you? And she's woman to boot. No matter what anyone says, an equally trained man will always be faster (with faster reaction time) than an equally trained woman. that's fact.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Cap is not faster than Elektra, not in movement, OR reaction/combat speed. Deflecting individual bullets with her sais is >> anything Cap has on panel. And i am hugely Cap Bias.

And as for him being (so cut and dry) "The strongest and most durable" There's a 100 billion page Batman vs Cap thread a few places down that might beg to differ. But if you have such conclusive proof, please share it.

Or is this another "Spider-man could never be hit by a street leveller" argument, where your own opinions take precident over the facts?

Cap is the fastest of all the peak humans. He has the feats to prove so. Deflecting bullets is nothing when Cap had supposedly dodged a bullet from point blank range. It is easier to catch a fastball from far away than it is to move out of the way of one at close range. I never seen Elektra ever move in blur like movements. Hell, daredevil has hung with her and batted bullets himself.

As far as durability, how do you think she would fare if she gets hit by a class 100 being? I don't think she would fare very well. Cap can and has. Cap is better in everyway. Cap without shield against Elektra with sais is a good fight. This isn't.

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap is the fastest of all the peak humans. He has the feats to prove so. Deflecting bullets is nothing when Cap had supposedly dodged a bullet from point blank range. Hell, daredevil has hung with her and batted bullets himself.

Deflecting >> Dodging, picking out individual bullets and countering them with a sai or BILLY CLUB no more than a few inches in width at the MOST,is 10 times harder than dodging the round. Cmon dude, this is comics, everyone and their mothers has a bullet dodging feat...you have to come better than that.

Originally posted by h1a8
I never seen Elektra ever move in blur like movements.

Blur is usually artist interpretation of fast movement, either way the statement is valid proof that YOU'VE never seen any superior Elektra speed feats, because you havn't READ any Elektra :/ you don't even need to purchase a comic for goodness sake, prolly the best Elektra respect thread on the net is 4 clicks away.

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap is better in everyway. Cap without shield against Elektra with sais is a good fight. This isn't.

No son, it would be an uphill, his durabilty would only come into play if Elektra (completley out of character) tried to have a slugfest!!

class one hundred blows don't leave holes in your torso

Originally posted by Juk3n
Deflecting >> Dodging, picking out individual bullets and countering them with a sai or BILLY CLUB no more than a few inches in width at the MOST,is 10 times harder than dodging the round. Cmon dude, this is comics, everyone and their mothers has a bullet dodging feat...you have to come better than that.
Not it's not. It's much harder to dodge than deflect. Moving the hands is easier than moving the body. Have you ever played baseball? Well I have (Div I) and I easily hit plenty of 90+mph fastballs without hesitation. But I didn't have a prayer on getting out of the way of one when they hit me. Also CA did this from point blank range, 5-7ft away where Elektra and DD were much further away.
If you still don't believe it then get a broomstick and have your little sister or someone throw some m&ms at you from 20ft away. See how many you can deflect with the stick. Now have them throw them at you from 7ft away while you dodge only after they have entered the air (not before). CA dodged a freaking bullet from super close range after it entered the air, not before.



I though we were only referring to who has the greater durability. What you said here is irrelevant since Elektra can stabbed too and also killed by a class 100 being's punch.

The Elektra respect thread had all it's images break. Damn.

Anyway a scan in particular I'm recalling was when Elektra had been drugged and poisoned (as usual) and she dodged a bullet and point blank (within 2 feet of the opponent) and back flipped away while throwing her sai to snag him. She even comments, "Stay still..." to emphasize her condition and how blurry things are.

That scan has her in "blurred movements" too.

She also ran through a mercenary camp with "blurred images" not being seen. Not that I think being drawn as blurred means shit in comics. That's the same argument some people try and use to say that Quicksilver is faster than Wonder Woman because she doesn't get drawn blurred.

look guys, it doesn't matter how they were drawn, almost any street level MA has good showings of dodging bullets. it's the way the comics make them look cool.

let's just look at the facts:

Capt. A has the super soldier serrum which makes him a notch above the peak human. Elektra, no matter how good she may get, can only become peak human in the physical aspect. Thus the term peak human.

That alone means that capt is faster. Unless elektra is some enhanced/meta human that i didn't know about.

Why is Elektra the flavor of the month character this month? Something happen with her? She always seemed so dull to me.

Originally posted by FrothByte
look guys, it doesn't matter how they were drawn, almost any street level MA has good showings of dodging bullets. it's the way the comics make them look cool.

let's just look at the facts:

Capt. A has the super soldier serrum which makes him a notch above the peak human. Elektra, no matter how good she may get, can only become peak human in the physical aspect. Thus the term peak human.

That alone means that capt is faster. Unless elektra is some enhanced/meta human that i didn't know about.

No don't do that, you're reading too much into the title "super soldier syrum" people do the same thing in fights involving Blade by saying "he's faster, he's is teh Vampyre" it's just a title in comics. Yes when cap was first concieved, he was supposed to be the be all and end all of Peak Humans, but then came Batman, and he pretty much has feats to match Cap in every aspect, bar a few high end strength ones.

Then comes Daredevil, who also despite only being "peak human" has deflection and agility feats that rival Cap. Same for Elektra who i might add CONSISTANTLY demonstrates Superhuman levels of speed and agility. Peak, Enhanced, Super this, Mutant, Vampire, Science project, they;re just titles, we go by feats. And according to the feats this fight is not so cut and dry.

And as for Elektra being enhanced/meta human, she has swatted a bullet away fired from a few feet away with her bare hand and had no damage from it...take that how you want, she may not be :biographically stated" as enhanced, but the feat still stands as much more than human.

Originally posted by FrothByte

You telling me that a human (altho superbly conditioned) is faster than someone who is one notch above the peak human? So what's the use of the super soldier serum if normal people can just train extremely hard and be just as good as you?

No one is telling you anything, the FEATS IN THE COMIC BOOKS are contradicting the bios you're reading about Cap. What he's supposed to be, is not the same as what he IS. Is he supposed to be the fastest? Yes..IS he? Debatable..he has feats matched by Batman, Elektra, Blade, Taskmaster, Cassy Cain, Shiva has some nice combat speed feats to match, Nightwing has some Agility feats to match, maybe exceed...and so on.

Heres another example, Spider-man..he has SUUUPER human speed and agility, and - most importantly - precognition, right? Should he get hit by common thugs and "peak humans"? No, Does he? YES. But he's so superhuman everyone cries..well? it's Marvels comic, and if they say he can get hit..he can get hit :/, same with Cap and Elektra..If she can use a sai an inch across to block individual bullets after being fired, run through a busy merc camp without alerting anyone, run across snow without leaving foot prints, and move so fast she is a Blur UNDER WATER, than thats what she can do..she matches and exceeds Cap in speed. :/

Originally posted by Juk3n
No don't do that, you're reading too much into the title "super soldier syrum" people do the same thing in fights involving Blade by saying "he's faster, he's is teh Vampyre" it's just a title in comics. Truth be told Cap already showed not to be as strong as a vampire.

Originally posted by Konton
Yeah.
http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy275/llagrok/1261283777260.png
You think the feats are comparable.

Cap

Cap beats her like a Lifetime movie of the week.

Originally posted by redhotrash
Cap beats her like a Lifetime movie of the week. domestic violence in no laughing matter...................







except when someone uses it in a crude joke such as this.

Originally posted by Juk3n
No one is telling you anything, the FEATS IN THE COMIC BOOKS are contradicting the bios you're reading about Cap. What he's supposed to be, is not the same as what he IS. Is he supposed to be the fastest? Yes..IS he? Debatable..he has feats matched by Batman, Elektra, Blade, Taskmaster, Cassy Cain, Shiva has some nice combat speed feats to match, Nightwing has some Agility feats to match, maybe exceed...and so on.

Heres another example, Spider-man..he has SUUUPER human speed and agility, and - most importantly - precognition, right? Should he get hit by common thugs and "peak humans"? No, Does he? YES. But he's so superhuman everyone cries..well? it's Marvels comic, and if they say he can get hit..he can get hit :/, same with Cap and Elektra..If she can use a sai an inch across to block individual bullets after being fired, run through a busy merc camp without alerting anyone, run across snow without leaving foot prints, and move so fast she is a Blur UNDER WATER, than thats what she can do..she matches and exceeds Cap in speed. :/


unfortunately, almost every single hero (and sometimes villains) in comics will always be drawn doing something that person isn't supposed to be doing. that's why it's comics, that way the look uber. or sometimes its just plain bad writing. but using what a character is drawn to be doing for fact is pretty debatable.

for instance, if we accept the fact taht elektra/dd/capt/batman etc. can dodge bullets, does that make them faster than bullets? That's pure BS, and yet they keep on drawing them like that coz it looks cool.

yes spidey gets shown as being hit by street levellers, and if people continue to use that arguement, we take away the fact of spidey's spider sense.

don't try to keep on denying what the super soldier serrum is supposed to do. the way comics are drawn changed over the years, but the fact still remains that the serrum puts cap just above your peak human... and anybody who is just human will only ever be peak human.

Originally posted by FrothByte

but the fact still remains that the serrum puts cap just above your peak human... and anybody who is just human will only ever be peak human.

prove it.

your still focused on the title of "super soldier" the fact remains this is flawed and that isnt my opinion.

Saying Cap wins Because "he has teh super soldier syrum" DESPITE the facts that the person we have pitted him against has accomplished the same/better feats is delusional. You can't argue like that. That sh!t does not compute.

Let go the labels, look at the EVIDENCE.

Me: Evidence says she's faster and has equal or better reactions.
You: But that can never be true, Cap has the syrum and is beyond what un-enhanced people can achieve.
Me: I hear you...but she has the feats to prove it.
You: But it's not possible because Cap has teh Syrum.
Me: facepalm

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Truth be told Cap already showed not to be as strong as a vampire.
When? Also there are many different levels of Vampires.

Also Elektra is not simply a peak human. She a meta human and was train in the dark arts. She has developed such abilities as Telepathy, illusions, mind tricks to make her forget events ect. To pretend that her physical abilities displaying something beyond human is a stretch or not pluasable is wrong. She has meta human stats. She shown this numerous times. He creator intended her to be far more then human and has display her as such from the get go.

Originally posted by h1a8
False. for every time you show me that she uses a different weapon I can show you 3 different times she used her sais. It is common sense that sais is her standard gear and nothing else.
No your wrong for instance in agent of shield she never even used her sais. Your logic is god awful, even if she did uses her sias the msot that does not make her other weapons she consistently uses not standard equiptment, by your logic batmans only standard gear would be his batrangs.......


Originally posted by Konton
She stated he was better than her, and then asked him why he always lost to her. She was referencing his physical advantages are how they were inferior to her power set.

The reason she gave was becuase he holds back when she doesent, not because she was actaully better.

Originally posted by Konton
She was also thrashing him around like a chump shortly after the Weapon X crap ended. His HF and memories were screwed up though so it's just another plotty encounter.
In a book, which I am not even sure cannon, had a lot of plot holes and contradictions.

Originally posted by Konton
Then there was Wolverine stating on panel during the Gorgon fight that went something like, "Since Elektra, worlds greatest ninja, was taken out what chance do I have?"

She is the best ninja, but does not mean she a better fighter and two it was hyper bole by her creator.

Originally posted by Konton
Taking all of these encounters as a whole, I think it's safe to say Elektra is, at the very least, Wolverine's equal in combat. I would personally put her slightly above him but I acknowledge she's always been my favorite Marvel character and I'm probably a tad bias.


She could very well be equal though the fights between the two are very circumstancial and in forum match she loses vast majority of the time simply due to his damage soak.

Mark Millar didn't create Elektra. It was Frank Miller.



Since when secondary weapons aren't allowed, h1a8?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Mark Millar didn't create Elektra. It was Frank Miller.



Since when secondary weapons aren't allowed, h1a8?
Shit yea my mistake. For got it was Frank Miller nor Mark.

Cap wins. His stats are better and thanks to his enhanced mind so is his tactical fighting. Cap 7-8/10

Cap ftw-Elektra has been smacked around by Bullseye before and Cap would own him.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
When? Also there are many different levels of Vampires. baron blood,

as for this fight' it seems pretty even, maybe cap should win in a comic, but based on feats they are pretty close

Originally posted by Juk3n
prove it.

your still focused on the title of "super soldier" the fact remains this is flawed and that isnt my opinion.

Saying Cap wins Because "he has teh super soldier syrum" DESPITE the facts that the person we have pitted him against has accomplished the same/better feats is delusional. You can't argue like that. That sh!t does not compute.

Let go the labels, look at the EVIDENCE.

Me: Evidence says she's faster and has equal or better reactions.
You: But that can never be true, Cap has the syrum and is beyond what un-enhanced people can achieve.
Me: I hear you...but she has the feats to prove it.
You: But it's not possible because Cap has teh Syrum.
Me: facepalm


basically you keep repeating what you're saying (she has feats to prove it) and which is why i keep repeating what i'm saying (she's still not stated to be above peak human). and we'll keep repeating ourselves till this gets to 200 pages.

peace

i don't disagree that elektra has good speed feats. all i'm saying is that capt has some pretty good ones too, and debating on feats will get us no where coz they both have pretty high showings.

Hate to interrupt the debate but in the end of the day its feats that determine the outcome of the fight, not "titles".

Originally posted by FrothByte
you keep repeating what you're saying (she has feats to prove it)

yes i know im repeating, but the key thing..

the one key thing you're failing to realize..

the only thing that MATTERS in a vs thread is that

Originally posted by
FrothByte (she's still not stated to be above peak human).

facepalm
doesn't MATTER.

What matter is what is SHOWN, not stated. There is no argument. There is no 2 sides to this story. We judge by what is shown not what the bios state, if we went with bios, VS thread would all be 1 page long.

Batman vs Cap

"Cap has SSS, he's more than Batman will ever be naturally"
"Oh, never mind then"

would make for a pretty shite vs board.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
The reason she gave was becuase he holds back when she doesent, not because she was actaully better.

That's a bit more of a stretch than what I observed. Since she was taunting him telepathically, it makes more sense that she'd be flaunting her own superhuman traits and bragging about how they give her an advantage.

Originally posted by Konton
That's a bit more of a stretch than what I observed. Since she was taunting him telepathically, it makes more sense that she'd be flaunting her own superhuman traits and bragging about how they give her an advantage.
Not really since she straight up states pretty clearly the only reason she can win is because he tries to save her, while she trying to kill him. Which was made pretty clear. She litterally said zero about any of her abilites giving her the advantage.

Originally posted by Juk3n
yes i know im repeating, but the key thing..

the one key thing you're failing to realize..

the only thing that MATTERS in a vs thread is that



facepalm
doesn't MATTER.

What matter is what is SHOWN, not stated. There is no argument. There is no 2 sides to this story. We judge by what is shown not what the bios state, if we went with bios, VS thread would all be 1 page long.

Batman vs Cap

"Cap has SSS, he's more than Batman will ever be naturally"
"Oh, never mind then"

would make for a pretty shite vs board.
Cap has feats to back his being the pinnacle of "peak humans" though. Stuff like outrunning bullets to their targets and then blocking them, running at nearly 60 mph for extended stretches while carrying someone(I think it was Bucky or Rick), and having Daredevil(who pretty much has "peak human" speed) outright say that Cap is faster.

Not that it definitively puts him over Electra cause mystic training can do wonders for someone's stats so it IS theoretically possible that she's as fast(or even faster) than Cap, but if that's the case it just means that Electra is metahuman.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Cap has feats to back his being the pinnacle of "peak humans" though. Stuff like outrunning bullets to their targets and then blocking them, running at nearly 60 mph for extended stretches while carrying someone(I think it was Bucky or Rick), and having Daredevil(who pretty much has "peak human" speed) outright say that Cap is faster.

That would not support him beign peak-human at all sicne there clearly supperior. it supports him being super human which he is

also I still dont think capt out ran the bullet (which is uttelry absurd) becuase based on the art they never would have landed on the target, it makes more sense that it was three other shots which is much more believable and sitll pritty rediculous.

when did DD say capt was faster?

Originally posted by darthgoober


Not that it definitively puts him over Electra cause mystic training can do wonders for someone's stats so it IS theoretically possible that she's as fast(or even faster) than Cap, but if that's the case it just means that Electra is metahuman.
I agree and I think she is meta human.

elektra might have speed.....and maybe skill, but not strength or durability or stamina......cap has the weapon advantage as well.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
That would not support him beign peak-human at all sicne there clearly supperior. it supports him being super human which he is

also I still dont think capt out ran the bullet (which is uttelry absurd) becuase based on the art they never would have landed on the target, it makes more sense that it was three other shots which is much more believable and sitll pritty rediculous.

when did DD say capt was faster?
I believe the same, but as long as Marvel keeps on billing him as the pinnacle of human potential what are we going to do?

I have to disagree there, I mean Red Skull has Cap's level of hand eye coordination and he's been shooting folks for a LONG time, so unless other shots were depicted(like via sound effect) I don't think we can assume the first shots missed. I know it's an unreal feat, but those are the kinds of feats you have use to show that he's above people who can bat away bullets on a near daily basis.

I don't remember the exact circumstances, but DD was coming out of a building out of costume and Cap whizzed by him so fast that DD couldn't identify him. DD said that he was faster when he was trying to catch up immediately thereafter. I know that it's technically just "running speed", but it also demonstrates a greater overall muscle speed IMO since we're not talking about two people who've been training themselves for completely different tasks(like a track star and martial artist).

Originally posted by darthgoober
I believe the same, but as long as Marvel keeps on billing him as the pinnacle of human potential what are we going to do?

I have to disagree there, I mean Red Skull has Cap's level of hand eye coordination and he's been shooting folks for a LONG time, so unless other shots were depicted(like via sound effect) I don't think we can assume the first shots missed. I know it's an unreal feat, but those are the kinds of feats you have use to show that he's above people who can bat away bullets on a near daily basis.

I don't remember the exact circumstances, but DD was coming out of a building out of costume and Cap whizzed by him so fast that DD couldn't identify him. DD said that he was faster when he was trying to catch up immediately thereafter. I know that it's technically just "running speed", but it also demonstrates a greater overall muscle speed IMO since we're not talking about two people who've been training themselves for completely different tasks(like a track star and martial artist).
They seem to be going the enhance route now.

They were depicted, you can see were his gun is aim and were the bullets hit all of which missed the guy.

k

Originally posted by namorsubby
elektra might have speed.....and maybe skill, but not strength or durability or stamina......cap has the weapon advantage as well.

She's got the durability advantage hands down.

Nobody is arguing she'd win this forum fight, his equipment and her being stuck with only the sai makes this somewhat unfair for Elektra.

Originally posted by Konton
She's got the durability advantage hands down.
You can not seriously be getting all of this out of those scans, can you? I mean, Cap survived hits from Hulk and Thor.

Originally posted by Konton
She's got the durability advantage hands down.
umm, no she doesn't.


cap has more impressive and far more prevelent durability feats

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No your wrong for instance in agent of shield she never even used her sais. Your logic is god awful, even if she did uses her sias the msot that does not make her other weapons she consistently uses not standard equiptment, by your logic batmans only standard gear would be his batrangs.......
Are you crazy or just plain silly. My Grandmother knows that anything but sais aren't her standard equipment. Over 90% of her appearances have her fighting either bare handed or with sais. This is common sense. I don't care what recent issues you saw, we take a character as consistent to their entire career.

Elektra isn't even in the top 5. Captain America is clearly in the top 3.

Not that I accept it but CA can best someone who moves faster than a bullet at times and has future forewarning (Spider-man). So this still remains a dumb thread. Have CA fight without his shield vs. her and just her sais and then we can argue.

Originally posted by h1a8
Are you crazy or just plain silly. My Grandmother knows that anything but sais aren't her standard equipment. Over 90% of her appearances have her fighting either bare handed or with sais. This is common sense. I don't care what recent issues you saw, we take a character as consistent to their entire career.

Elektra isn't even in the top 5. Captain America is clearly in the top 3.

Not that I accept it but CA can best someone who moves faster than a bullet at times and has future forewarning (Spider-man). So this still remains a dumb thread. Have CA fight without his shield vs. her and just her sais and then we can argue.

1. Elektra has just as many appearances with her katana than she does with her sai.
2. Elektra not in the top five? lol
3. ugh

Originally posted by Battlehammer
They seem to be going the enhance route now.

They were depicted, you can see were his gun is aim and were the bullets hit all of which missed the guy.

k
It varies from writer to writer. Give them some time and they'll start calling him "human" again.

When do you see a bullet hit anything but Cap's shield? Were there vases breaking in the background or holes materializing in the wall or something?

Originally posted by Konton
She's got the durability advantage hands down.

Nobody is arguing she'd win this forum fight, his equipment and her being stuck with only the sai makes this somewhat unfair for Elektra.
How do you figure?

Originally posted by h1a8


Elektra isn't even in the top 5. Captain America is clearly in the top 3.



What? Top 5 what? Top 3 what? Cap isnt more skilled then Temugin, Ironfist, Elektra or Shang-Chi when it comes to MA skill, so thats out, it's debateable whether he is superior to wolverine in terms of skill,iand if we're really talking technical MA, use of P.points and nerve striks and such, real class-S stuff, he might not even be superior to Daredevil. What about Stick and The Cat? His SSS might let him hang physically, but it's obvious you didnt mean, he's "top 3 in the physically enhanced super soldiers of marvel earth catagory" lol

If it's "top 3 & 5" in comic books altogether, then you're WAAAY ofF because we have - in the more skilled catagory - Taskmaster, Batman, Shiva, Cassy (maybe), Bronze tiger, Constantine Drakon, Tchalla is debateable, same for Deathstroke, not to mention Val...and so on and so on.

so, just to clarify, Cap is Top 3 in what now?

Thought so, GTFO!

Originally posted by Juk3n
What? Top 5 what? Top 3 what? Cap isnt more skilled then Temugin, Ironfist, Elektra or Shang-Chi when it comes to MA skill, so thats out, it's debateable whether he is superior to wolverine in terms of skill,iand if we're really talking technical MA, use of P.points and nerve striks and such, real class-S stuff, he might not even be superior to Daredevil. What about Stick and The Cat? His SSS might let him hang physically, but it's obvious you didnt mean, he's "top 3 in the physically enhanced super soldiers of marvel earth catagory" lol

If it's "top 3 & 5" in comic books altogether, then you're WAAAY ofF because we have - in the more skilled catagory - Taskmaster, Batman, Shiva, Cassy (maybe), Bronze tiger, Constantine Drakon, Tchalla is debateable, same for Deathstroke, not to mention Val...and so on and so on.

so, just to clarify, Cap is Top 3 in what now?

Thought so, GTFO!
Cap's more skilled than Shang Chi.

Originally posted by Konton
She's got the durability advantage hands down. he's far more durable, plus i assume he has his customary durilium (iirc) scale armour suit on and such.

Captain America is pretty much superhuman. I mean with feats like this where his even stated to be superhuman it's pretty safe to accept feats from him that are clearly above human such as him being faster than bullets. Actually faster like the Red Skull incident.

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/th_CaptainAmericSuperStrength.jpghttp://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/th_CaptainAmericSuperStrength2.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain America is pretty much superhuman. I mean with feats like this where his even stated to be superhuman it's pretty safe to accept feats from him that are clearly above human such as him being faster than bullets. Actually faster like the Red Skull incident.

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/th_CaptainAmericSuperStrength.jpghttp://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/th_CaptainAmericSuperStrength2.jpg
I agree with the jist of what you're saying, but those scans are from a period where Cap got a significant strength upgrade that has since worn off.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I agree with the jist of what you're saying, but those scans are from a period where Cap got a significant strength upgrade that has since worn off.

Really? Damn, thought that was a nice feat for Captain America.

I was just flipping through Thor's avenger appearances and came across it. Didn't bother to do any more research.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? Damn, thought that was a nice feat for Captain America.

I was just flipping through Thor's avenger appearances and came across it. Didn't bother to do any more research.
Yeah he was like a 20 tonner or so if I remember correctly.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah he was like a 20 tonner or so if I remember correctly.

Is this the Viper upgrade?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Is this the Viper upgrade?
Seems like it, I'd have to flip through old Cap issues to know for sure though...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Seems like it, I'd have to flip through old Cap issues to know for sure though...

He got around the first Volume of the Captain America issues. Like issue #157 I think.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? Damn, thought that was a nice feat for Captain America.

I was just flipping through Thor's avenger appearances and came across it. Didn't bother to do any more research.

rage, do you still have those scans of cap outrunning bullets so that I can save it?

Originally posted by carver9
rage, do you still have those scans of cap outrunning bullets so that I can save it?

Yea I do. I uploaded it but I don't know what account it's on. I have like 3 different photobucket accounts and 2 of them have reached their limit thanks to Thor scans. I'll look and try to find it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yea I do. I uploaded it but I don't know what account it's on. I have like 3 different photobucket accounts and 2 of them have reached their limit thanks to Thor scans. I'll look and try to find it.

Thanks because that was some beautiful sh**.

Here you go.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/th_CapFasterthanBullets.jpg

Originally posted by darthgoober
How do you figure?

The bashings from skrulls (including Colossus') and Luke Cage. Deflecting bullets with her fist.

Originally posted by Konton
The bashings from skrulls (including Colossus') and Luke Cage. Deflecting bullets with her fist.
Seriously, that's it? Cap's taken repeated shot's from Namor, Ironman, Mr. Hyde, Power Man, and any number of other people equally/exceedingly impressive. And you didn't post the bullet feat so I can't really judge it, but if nothing else Cap wears armor.

Didn't Cap take a shot from Skrullossus, too? He rolled with a blow and didn't get hit after that IIRC, but still...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Didn't Cap take a shot from Skrullossus, too? He rolled with a blow and didn't get hit after that IIRC, but still...
Yep, to the back of the head in fact(it was a cheap shot which also makes it an impressive reactionary feat).

Thanks, that's how I remembered it.

If Captain America can hold his own against the likes of Wolverine, Daredevil, and Iron Fist......I don't see him losing to Elektra.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Seriously, that's it? Cap's taken repeated shot's from Namor, Ironman, Mr. Hyde, Power Man, and any number of other people equally/exceedingly impressive. And you didn't post the bullet feat so I can't really judge it, but if nothing else Cap wears armor.
Thor hit him.

Originally posted by Magneto1982
If Captain America can hold his own against the likes of Wolverine, Daredevil, and Iron Fist......I don't see him losing to Elektra.

Dude, think about what you just said.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Dude, think about what you just said.

So are you saying that Elektra is more skilled in h2h combat than Wolverine, Daredevil, and Iron Fist?

Originally posted by Magneto1982
So are you saying that Elektra is more skilled in h2h combat than Wolverine, Daredevil, and Iron Fist?

your looking at stats and other abilities with dd wolv and Ironfist.

she could be more skilled than wolverine, is one of the few peeps that can bypass DD radar abd best him in combat, and a chi-less ironfist??? Id bet she can take an even split.

so he's not that far off.

Originally posted by Magneto1982
So are you saying that Elektra is more skilled in h2h combat than Wolverine, Daredevil, and Iron Fist?

I'm saying that you're definitely not familiar with her fights against Wolverine and DD. Dunno if she's ever tangled with Iron Fist, though.

I think there might be some CIS concernng DD vs Elektra. ^

Not sure about the Wolverine ones.

No need for analyzing those fights now. She at the very least held her own and that was my point.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No need for analyzing those fights now. She at the very least held her own and that was my point.

Oh ok.

Elektra is not holding her own against Iron Fist.

Cap isn't doing that either against current IF.

Fair enough, just dont understand the Elektra wankfest of the last 3 weeks or so.

Originally posted by Konton
1. Elektra has just as many appearances with her katana than she does with her sai.
2. Elektra not in the top five? lol
3. ugh
gotta love H1 ignorance, and the best part is he so dam cocky to even when he clearly talking out his ass.

bump

^Nooo! heh
Elektra should take it, especially CIS on.

Stats advantage, enhanced mind, A list skill.

Cap 7-8/10

'Easy' is not a noun. The word you're looking for is 'ease'.

elektras good but as someone stated, sais suck against a shield. its a great fight, but ima have to hand this to ole steve

Captain America

no type of amp whatsoever for elektra she gets pawned by cap..

she held her own against wolverine due to cis on logan's behalf never wanting to injure her or even being in the right mindset like he is more annoyed and his heart not even in it.

Originally posted by King Castle
no type of amp whatsoever for elektra she gets pawned by cap..

she held her own against wolverine due to cis on logan's behalf never wanting to injure her or even being in the right mindset like he is more annoyed and his heart not even in it.

care to tell me where she actually beat logan and not just annoy him or slow him down?

when she went to retrain logan, logan was able to out react her and house the blade he had into its sheath in elektras back.. he walked away and told her he didnt want to play with her or whatever iirc. walking off nonchalantly..

she was in the middle of an attack when logan pulled the maneuver off.

Originally posted by King Castle
no type of amp whatsoever for elektra she gets pawned by cap..

she held her own against wolverine due to cis on logan's behalf never wanting to injure her or even being in the right mindset like he is more annoyed and his heart not even in it. I actually pretty much agree with you........unsettling

all, except for the "pawned" part.

Originally posted by King Castle
care to tell me where she actually beat logan and not just annoy him or slow him down?

when she went to retrain logan, logan was able to out react her and house the blade he had into its sheath in elektras back.. he walked away and told her he didnt want to play with her or whatever iirc. walking off nonchalantly..

she was in the middle of an attack when logan pulled the maneuver off.



The first time they fought... and Logan got stabbed in the heart and left for dead.

i argue it even being canon... but, whatever.. in the enemy of the state she stated she had to let the shield agents distract him otherwise she wouldnt get a second chance to put him down.. she knew she couldnt beat him in the mindset he was in..

besides how often is a single heart stab ever really stopped logan?

Originally posted by jinzin




The first time they fought... and Logan got stabbed in the heart and left for dead.
seems like a pretty low showing for Wolverine's HF/pain tolerance

Also, hasn't Elektra specifically stated that it is CIS that lets her beat logan(or was that comic non-canon?)

Originally posted by King Castle
i argue it even being canon... but, whatever.. in the enemy of the state she stated she had to let the shield agents distract him otherwise she wouldnt get a second chance to put him down.. she knew she couldnt beat him in the mindset he was in..

besides how often is a single heart stab ever really stopped logan?

Well you have to remember that it was pretty close to after the Weapon X expirement. I'd say a heart stab on Logan in the early run of of his comics career would be more than enough to drop him.

Finally, I'd also say that Elektra has had Logan on the defensive in not one, not two, but EVERY fight they've had. You can blame Wolverine's mindset but the only time that was ever an attribution to the result was in the nemesis fight WHILE Elektra was mocking Wolverine, and it's something Wolverine didn't immediately support (not that it wasn't true at the moment but all the same). Likewise she may have used the Shield agents to put Logan at a disadvantage in EOTS but she resecured that advantage mid-fight without them just as well. Sorry but Logan has never looked the better of the two in their encounters... He of course WOULD win any fight they have now but that's due to his HF and durability/damage soak, not because he's more skilled, or has a better physicality.

You want to discard the one time they fought not knowing one another because it suits you? No hair off my back.

i'd kill you if i could..

logan has superhuman physical attributes all across the board his MA knowledge is leaps in bounds above elektra's MA.. their is no reason she should be able to beat logan who is actively fighting at his best MA and not just brawling and tanking.. elektra can only win if she uses chi amps and logan is massively depowered.

logan in a forum fight should still beat beat her at his best MA lvl.

The Redeemer isn't canon. It exists in a continuity black hole where Wolverine has just escaped Weapon X and yet Elektra is an active assassin. It is simultaniously pre Wolverine joining the X-Men and post Elektra's resurection by the Hand.

does elektra have her telepathy in this fight ?