Kazuya vS Akuma

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FistOfThe North
Who'd win outta these 2 megalomanniacs..

setting: bare grass plain during a thunderstorm in Japans' countryside.

Sin_Volvagia
Based on what I know, Akuma has greater feats.

FistOfThe North
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Based on what I know, Akuma has greater feats.

Like what?

Kazuya survived being thrown off a mountain cliff by his father, Heihachi Mishima, as a child and survived to climb back up to get revenge only later to throw his father out off a mountain cliff himself.

Then Kazuya was thrown into an active volcano by his father years later in retaliation. And Kazyua still came back after his father. And he's the only character with a demonic or "devil" gene. He recieved it when he sold his soul to the devil as a kid so that he can live to get revenge on his father. The huge scar on his chest was the mark made as a reminder of the contract, from what i understand..

I don't know what Akuma has went through tha'st harder that what Kazuya Mishima went through. And Kazuya might be more sinister, too. He's about planetary conquest.

Demonic Phoenix
Akuma's out of Kazuya's league.

Shutter Control
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Like what?

Kazuya survived being thrown off a mountain cliff by his father, Heihachi Mishima, as a child and survived to climb back up to get revenge only later to throw his father out off a mountain cliff himself.

Then Kazuya was thrown into an active volcano by his father years later in retaliation. And Kazyua still came back after his father. And he's the only character with a demonic or "devil" gene. He recieved it when he sold his soul to the devil as a kid so that he can live to get revenge on his father. The huge scar on his chest was the mark made as a reminder of the contract, from what i understand..

I don't know what Akuma has went through tha'st harder that what Kazuya Mishima went through. And Kazuya might be more sinister, too. He's about planetary conquest. And you won't here. You will witness how highly Akuma and/or Akuma's feats are overrated, but that's the extent your knowledge will go. Unfortunately for most, as soon as they hear Akuma "sunk" or punched an island to smithereens, or, get ready to laugh, "shifted tectonic plates", they automatically squirt on their monitors thinking Akuma can, out of the blue, sink a landmass as big as Hawaii by flexing his muscles, not caring, but most likely ignorant of the following:

1. Size of island is speculated, claimed to be confirmed by a picture with an island in it, by fans.

2. Spreading ki was involved. However you will read supporters arguing, "nope, it's his physical strength".

3. Time it took to pull off is unknown and speculated, fans will argue it took seconds, less than a minute, or a few minutes.

Somewhere at one point, you will most likely hear that it is bigger in quantity than the entire Mishima Zaibatsu complex, because it is an island (a 100x100 feet rock surrounded by water qualifies as an island) whereas the latter isn't.

You will probably also read Akuma's island shattering punches will destroy Kazuya who has no such durability to make said punches withstandable, but the fact Devil's power vanished what is shown in video 1 below is nothing Akuma has to fear.

Also that Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu will give him the win instantly (as it gives him the win against pretty much anyone, especially when speaking of fighting game characters), but, the fact it doesn't work on Street Fighters like Gen or anyone who clears/purifies his or her mind so to speak, or the fact Kazuya has telekinesis, coupled with Devil-powered beams are negligible by default. It's Akuma he's fighting. laughing

What you mentioned will not seem like anything to some, though what you mentioned certainly gives Kazuya the durability advantage. Getting thrown in a volcano and simply becoming lifeless as a result, has nothing to with durability. If you get the statement saying because it took his life that it doesn't count as a durability feat, don't be surprised.

At his highest state which is in Tekken 2, is the same "full" level achieved in Kazuya's ending in Tekken 4, and that is simply through absorbing the other half of Devil residing in Jin. This same level of power demonstrated in Kazuya's T4 ending (which is telling what would happen if Devil was complete) vanished the Mishima Zaibatsu complex and the area surround it without a trace. Let me explain what I mean by telling. These words are verbatim from the ending. Not everything that counts as gaugable feats have to be seen (I know some love to use text and/or things people said or typed elsewhere, even people who have no authority to make things official on their own behalves).

If "vanished without a trace" does not suffice for a person, to think the notion it doesn't even imply the area in question wasn't reduced to 1 inch square bits isn't sufficient for the person is simply beyond amazing. Anyway, first video will show the whole or part of the Mishima Zaibatsu, the second is Kazuya's ending, which shows some telekinetic abilities as well. I will also throw in something, (a third video) showing what not using the devil gene can do (specifically what both Jin and Kazuya in their base forms did, so Kazuya contributed half).


00:20:BHgSHKV6oFo


All of:uQYCpDcPgX0


1:20-1:30:1JJlKtwbQu8

Shutter Control
Just wanted to say the Zaibatsu's size or how long it took it to be erased is not being argued. It is just as mysterious as Akuma's case, I'm sorry to say.

Third video is not important and is something I threw in. It's not comparable to Kazuya's other level of power or what Akuma has done.

Skip to 2:00 in the second video. First two minutes is not important.

Hell Lancer
regular akuma can only be beaten by Ryu because ryu has no feats comparable to Akuma's therefor ryu beating him makes sense. but not people who have better feats than Ryu. Ryu putting up a fight and defeating Akuma in SFA2 without having any feats to back it up is not PIS but if Jin beats Jinpachi, then its PIS. in fact, anyone who has better feats than Ryu automatically has a jobber aura because only ryu can beat everyone without needing feat. that is a feat, in and of itself.


its so pathetic how people just don't get this simple logic.

Kirikaze Fuuma
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
regular akuma can only be beaten by Ryu because ryu has no feats comparable to Akuma's therefor ryu beating him makes sense. but not people who have better feats than Ryu. Ryu putting up a fight and defeating Akuma in SFA2 without having any feats to back it up is not PIS but if Jin beats Jinpachi, then its PIS. in fact, anyone who has better feats than Ryu automatically has a jobber aura because only ryu can beat everyone without needing feat. that is a feat, in and of itself.


its so pathetic how people just don't get this simple logic.

...no expression

No offense, but you sounds like a Ryu fanboy when you post something like this.

JustFrame
You don't see Kazuya training in the deep ocean waters where the pressures of it would crush a regular human body to snot. You don't see Kazuya sinking an island with his fist, or splitting a mountain into 5 sections with his fist either.

Akuma himself is insanely powerful, and most noticeably Ryu's feats demonstrate how much higher Akuma is in regards to him. Ryu's punches are so fast and powerful that they can send sonic boom shock waves as seen in the trailer and within the SF:IV Movie. In order to create a sonic boom, your punches literally have to break the sound barrier in order to do so, and yet, there was Seth taking all of those hits with utter ease from Ryu.

We all know, without a shadow of a doubt that Akuma>>>>>Seth in durability, as well as overall everything pretty much.

Anyhow, I need not write this anymore, you can simply go up to www.shoryuken.com and look up the thread pertaining to the talk of Street Fighter Character's Canon Feats, abilities, and notions there. Akuma would ocv Kazuya literally, and utterly.

FistOfThe North
How about Devil Kazuya?

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Shutter Control
And you won't here. You will witness how highly Akuma and/or Akuma's feats are overrated, but that's the extent your knowledge will go. Unfortunately for most, as soon as they hear Akuma "sunk" or punched an island to smithereens, or, get ready to laugh, "shifted tectonic plates", they automatically squirt on their monitors thinking Akuma can, out of the blue, sink a landmass as big as Hawaii by flexing his muscles, not caring, but most likely ignorant of the following:

1. Size of island is speculated, claimed to be confirmed by a picture with an island in it, by fans.

2. Spreading ki was involved. However you will read supporters arguing, "nope, it's his physical strength".

3. Time it took to pull off is unknown and speculated, fans will argue it took seconds, less than a minute, or a few minutes.

Somewhere at one point, you will most likely hear that it is bigger in quantity than the entire Mishima Zaibatsu complex, because it is an island (a 100x100 feet rock surrounded by water qualifies as an island) whereas the latter isn't.

You will probably also read Akuma's island shattering punches will destroy Kazuya who has no such durability to make said punches withstandable, but the fact Devil's power vanished what is shown in video 1 below is nothing Akuma has to fear.

Also that Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu will give him the win instantly (as it gives him the win against pretty much anyone, especially when speaking of fighting game characters), but, the fact it doesn't work on Street Fighters like Gen or anyone who clears/purifies his or her mind so to speak, or the fact Kazuya has telekinesis, coupled with Devil-powered beams are negligible by default. It's Akuma he's fighting. laughing

What you mentioned will not seem like anything to some, though what you mentioned certainly gives Kazuya the durability advantage. Getting thrown in a volcano and simply becoming lifeless as a result, has nothing to with durability. If you get the statement saying because it took his life that it doesn't count as a durability feat, don't be surprised.

At his highest state which is in Tekken 2, is the same "full" level achieved in Kazuya's ending in Tekken 4, and that is simply through absorbing the other half of Devil residing in Jin. This same level of power demonstrated in Kazuya's T4 ending (which is telling what would happen if Devil was complete) vanished the Mishima Zaibatsu complex and the area surround it without a trace. Let me explain what I mean by telling. These words are verbatim from the ending. Not everything that counts as gaugable feats have to be seen (I know some love to use text and/or things people said or typed elsewhere, even people who have no authority to make things official on their own behalves).

If "vanished without a trace" does not suffice for a person, to think the notion it doesn't even imply the area in question wasn't reduced to 1 inch square bits isn't sufficient for the person is simply beyond amazing. Anyway, first video will show the whole or part of the Mishima Zaibatsu, the second is Kazuya's ending, which shows some telekinetic abilities as well. I will also throw in something, (a third video) showing what not using the devil gene can do (specifically what both Jin and Kazuya in their base forms did, so Kazuya contributed half).


00:20:BHgSHKV6oFo


All of:uQYCpDcPgX0


1:20-1:30:1JJlKtwbQu8

Now I know your a Sock...

FistOfThe North
How is he a sock..

Having the ability to make an island vanish without a trace is a much greater feat than punching one and just shattering it. which ability would be more useful in a fight? i'd say making something vanish out of physical existence.

Kazuya, Mishima, wins..

FistOfThe North
Originally posted by Shutter Control
And you won't here. You will witness how highly Akuma and/or Akuma's feats are overrated, but that's the extent your knowledge will go. Unfortunately for most, as soon as they hear Akuma "sunk" or punched an island to smithereens, or, get ready to laugh, "shifted tectonic plates", they automatically squirt on their monitors thinking Akuma can, out of the blue, sink a landmass as big as Hawaii by flexing his muscles, not caring, but most likely ignorant of the following:

1. Size of island is speculated, claimed to be confirmed by a picture with an island in it, by fans.

2. Spreading ki was involved. However you will read supporters arguing, "nope, it's his physical strength".

3. Time it took to pull off is unknown and speculated, fans will argue it took seconds, less than a minute, or a few minutes.

Somewhere at one point, you will most likely hear that it is bigger in quantity than the entire Mishima Zaibatsu complex, because it is an island (a 100x100 feet rock surrounded by water qualifies as an island) whereas the latter isn't.

You will probably also read Akuma's island shattering punches will destroy Kazuya who has no such durability to make said punches withstandable, but the fact Devil's power vanished what is shown in video 1 below is nothing Akuma has to fear.

Also that Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu will give him the win instantly (as it gives him the win against pretty much anyone, especially when speaking of fighting game characters), but, the fact it doesn't work on Street Fighters like Gen or anyone who clears/purifies his or her mind so to speak, or the fact Kazuya has telekinesis, coupled with Devil-powered beams are negligible by default. It's Akuma he's fighting. laughing

What you mentioned will not seem like anything to some, though what you mentioned certainly gives Kazuya the durability advantage. Getting thrown in a volcano and simply becoming lifeless as a result, has nothing to with durability. If you get the statement saying because it took his life that it doesn't count as a durability feat, don't be surprised.

At his highest state which is in Tekken 2, is the same "full" level achieved in Kazuya's ending in Tekken 4, and that is simply through absorbing the other half of Devil residing in Jin. This same level of power demonstrated in Kazuya's T4 ending (which is telling what would happen if Devil was complete) vanished the Mishima Zaibatsu complex and the area surround it without a trace. Let me explain what I mean by telling. These words are verbatim from the ending. Not everything that counts as gaugable feats have to be seen (I know some love to use text and/or things people said or typed elsewhere, even people who have no authority to make things official on their own behalves).

If "vanished without a trace" does not suffice for a person, to think the notion it doesn't even imply the area in question wasn't reduced to 1 inch square bits isn't sufficient for the person is simply beyond amazing. Anyway, first video will show the whole or part of the Mishima Zaibatsu, the second is Kazuya's ending, which shows some telekinetic abilities as well. I will also throw in something, (a third video) showing what not using the devil gene can do (specifically what both Jin and Kazuya in their base forms did, so Kazuya contributed half).

very informative. i'm not a kazuya fanboy, in fact i barely ever pick him in tekken but i do know that he's a force to be reckoned with. Akuma's a problem too. I'd pick Akuma at times in sf4, the only problem is that Shun Goku Satsu, which is, in my opinion, a force. Meaning they forced it on that one. It's too much power meaning even for a fictional character like that, it just seems way too unrealistic.

The Devil resides within Kazuya. And just a demon in Akuma. What's more powerful? Of course the lord of demons, which is The Devil.

Darkstorm Zero
I said that because I mentioned the posability of the tectonic stuff 2 years ago, LONG before his time, how would he know that, and better yet, why would he rag on it?

Akuma is not in posession by a Demon, that was bunk made by Capcom of America and is non-canon.

Also, Kazuya is not in posession by the Devil as in Satan... If you've played Tekken 6, you would know that Azazel created the Devils.

Hell Lancer
proof please.

Darkstorm Zero
I don't think those are sonic booms caused by the speed of the punch, more like from the impact of flesh against flesh...

Hell Lancer
my thoughts exactly. not to mention that they are "sonic booms" in the first place.

Hell Lancer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93qwklKFY7U&feature=related

so as i said....not sonic booms. not even shockwaves. these are just impact effects. its a technique constantly used in all animes, cartoons and animations. hajime no ippo has them all the time.

a shockwave is what jin and kazuya did in the Tekken6 intro.

SamZED
^Yep. And they didn't even connect. That pretty much was the force of them throwing punches... Training under water is great and all but that's nothing more than an ok durability showing.. Seriously im starting to think that Feng Wei could've sunk that island. Not saying that Kazuya wins, but saying that Akuma is out of his league is wrong. Also if it were Devil Kazuya I'd definitely give him the win.

FistOfThe North
Originally posted by SamZED
Also if it were Devil Kazuya I'd definitely give him the win.

of course. the devil is a type god. and no mortal can defeat a god.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
of course. the devil is a type god. and no mortal can defeat a god.

This is fundamentally flawed logic, since ortals have defeated gods all over fiction before.

Feng has never actualy done the feats in any of his endings, so thats moot.

And I'm getting tired of repeating this... Jin and Kazuya didn't shater that glass by the force of their punches.... For crists sake, it was the stompdown that leads into that that caused it, Akuma does this regularly and with far less effort.

Shutter Control
Originally posted by SamZED
^Yep. And they didn't even connect. That pretty much was the force of them throwing punches... Training under water is great and all but that's nothing more than an ok durability showing.. Seriously im starting to think that Feng Wei could've sunk that island. Not saying that Kazuya wins, but saying that Akuma is out of his league is wrong. Also if it were Devil Kazuya I'd definitely give him the win. No doubt. I wouldn't say it's farfetched Feng Wei can demolish/sunk/crumble (like anyone knows what happened) an island of unknown size, when it took him 5 second or less to do this:zrVfVL1CNR0By the way, the "Fist of the Dragon" scroll, like in the Kung Fu Panda movie, just turned out to be a fake one having the message similar to "find the power within you" so Feng Wei recieved no power upgrade. This isn't confirmed to be canon although nonetheless is a display of his pure strength, unlike Akuma who needs ki to do all his overrated accomplishments.

*Waits for island is >>>>>>>> greater than Tekken volcanic rock in size* laughing

Darkstorm Zero
I may regret speaking to a suspected Sock...

The feat is NOT official, it never happened, and Feng has no supporting evidence to back him up, whereas Akuma has at least 3 official endings reguarding his feats, and they are those he actually DID do according to the story.

Phanteros
socks? sigh

SamZED
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
This is fundamentally flawed logic, since ortals have defeated gods all over fiction before.

Feng has never actualy done the feats in any of his endings, so thats moot.

And I'm getting tired of repeating this... Jin and Kazuya didn't shater that glass by the force of their punches.... For crists sake, it was the stompdown that leads into that that caused it, Akuma does this regularly and with far less effort. Actually it wasn't the stomp, after they throw the second punch it caused the same kind of destruction if you listen to the sound effect and they didn't stomp the ground the second time. Also if it was the stomp they would've crushed through the roof. But I agree about God being more of a title. Still Devil Jin or Devil Kazuya would definitely beat Akuma. Feng has a decent punching feat in his ending, dont see any reason why it wouldn't be non-canon, and even it for some reason it isn't it's still a display of his strength level, kinda like Bryan destroying that tank. Akuma would obviously stomp Feng but he's NOT out of Kazuya's league. Who takes it can be argued.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by SamZED
Actually it wasn't the stomp, after they throw the second punch it caused the same kind of destruction if you listen to the sound effect and they didn't stomp the ground the second time. Also if it was the stomp they would've crushed through the roof. But I agree about God being more of a title. Still Devil Jin or Devil Kazuya would definitely beat Akuma. Feng has a decent punching feat in his ending, dont see any reason why it wouldn't be non-canon, and even it for some reason it isn't it's still a display of his strength level, kinda like Bryan destroying that tank. Akuma would obviously stomp Feng but he's NOT out of Kazuya's league. Who takes it can be argued.

The 2nd punch led to the title screen Sam.... Please don't try that again... The stompdown caused the tiles to break and the cracks spread from there, not from the punch itself.

Fengs ending is non-canon as it is dependant on him finding the Godfist scrolls, this was later confirmed not to happen anyways, since he never even fought Jinpachi, nor was he even remotely involved with any of the events involving Azazel, so the molten rock thing is also out... The fact is, he never did anything besides kicking Asuka's dad around.

SamZED
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The 2nd punch led to the title screen Sam.... Please don't try that again... The stompdown caused the tiles to break and the cracks spread from there, not from the punch itself.

Fengs ending is non-canon as it is dependant on him finding the Godfist scrolls, this was later confirmed not to happen anyways, since he never even fought Jinpachi, nor was he even remotely involved with any of the events involving Azazel, so the molten rock thing is also out... The fact is, he never did anything besides kicking Asuka's dad around. Not to try what again? confused The second punch did lead to the title screen but the sound of the fight was still on that's why I said judging from the "sound effect" and judging by it it was clear that it lead to more destruction and they didn't stomp again the second time. Seriously, it doesnt even look like stom had anything to do with it, the stomp just barely damaged the ground.

What does his tekken 6 ending have to do with tekken 5 scrolls? You made a wrong connection here. In tekken 5 he tried to find the scrolls but failed thus the mounting thing was not canon because he used the dragon power (or whatever was that) and that was made clear in the ending. His tekken 6 is a whole different story, there wasn't even hinted that he used the power of the scroll, it was just a random clip of him training and had nothing to do with his failed tekken 5 quest, so this feat is no less canon than Bryan taking that tank apart.

Also saying that Akuma is out of Kaz or Jin's league would be wrong.

Darkstorm Zero
Your refferencing Feng's endings, well the moundain was due to the scrolls, and the Tekken 6 ending is non-canon, so it's irrelevant waht it shows.

As for your sound effect argument, your trying desperately to sever the connection bitween the step in and the punch itself, there is no way a missed punch can do that, there is nothing exerting the force into the glass EXEPT the stompdown.

Bryan rippin apart the tank however was confirmed official, thats the difference.

And I never said Akuma was above and beyond Kazuya and Jin, but the difference is EXEEDINGLY obvious... AKuma more often than not would flatten either one of them, even as devils, simply because he has all the attributes needed to do so.

Shutter Control
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Fengs ending is non-canon as it is dependant on him finding the Godfist scrolls, this was later confirmed not to happen anyways, since he never even fought Jinpachi, nor was he even remotely involved with any of the events involving Azazel, so the molten rock thing is also out... The fact is, he never did anything besides kicking Asuka's dad around. I can't describe how laughably wrong this part is.

Check Feng's prologue (yes prologues are canon) which confirm he did find the scrolls, which give no power upgrade whatsoever. All they (or, it) were was a sentence telling to dominate every fighting style and make it his or her own. Feng's Tekken 6 ending does not depend on any non-canonically achieved power, just as Bryan's T6 ending displays are from no upgrade and only serves as a showing of what said character can do.

That is why by the way I don't debate forumers like toi, never bothering to check if what he posts originates from his ass or real evidence. laughing

Also, there is no clear evidence if the blows or the stomp did what was shown. Don't see why it matters. It definitely seems like it was the punches, but, no that can't be it, right? stick out tongue

SamZED
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Your refferencing Feng's endings, well the moundain was due to the scrolls, and the Tekken 6 ending is non-canon, so it's irrelevant waht it shows.

As for your sound effect argument, your trying desperately to sever the connection bitween the step in and the punch itself, there is no way a missed punch can do that, there is nothing exerting the force into the glass EXEPT the stompdown.

Bryan rippin apart the tank however was confirmed official, thats the difference.

And I never said Akuma was above and beyond Kazuya and Jin, but the difference is EXEEDINGLY obvious... AKuma more often than not would flatten either one of them, even as devils, simply because he has all the attributes needed to do so. Man, I just don't see how you put one thing to another. How does his tekken 5 ending prove that tekken 6 is not canon? confused Asuka's ending in tekken 5 isn't canon, but it doesn't prove that she never fought Lili during tekken 6. Feng's Tekken 5 ending wasn't canon. What was canon is - he found the scroll but it didn't give him any power. His life didn't stop then, he kept fighting training and entered the KOIFT 6. And a clip of him training in tekken 6 is canon, nothing says otherwise. If it showed him beating Azazel or using the power of the scroll you would've been right, but he didn't he was just training and destroyed that boulder under his own power.

Actually it is you who are desperately trying to downplay the feat because it's a good display of power for Kazuya and Jin and you don't want that so you're arguing the obvious here. Jin and Kazuya throw the punches, it cause the shockwave, then they throw another and there's another shockwave and that is clear from the video, go check it out again. Im not even arguing, simply stating the obvious. Turn on the sound when Kazuya and Jin throw the second punch and see for youself.

What atributes? You said you dont think he's beyong regular Jin or Kazuya but think he'd take them even as Devils? What the f**k? Looks like a controdiction to me. He does have a longrange attacks advantage over regular Jin and Kaz, but if it were a Devil Jin I dont see how he stands even a slightest chance. D Jin just puts up a forcefield around himself like he did when he oneshotted Azazel and tk ftw.

Shutter Control
Akuma is TK-proof, haven't you heard? Akuma would also shatter that forcefield. We don't know how strong that forcefield is, but it doesn't matter. The fact a certain person is punching it means it's going down.

Shutter Control
This post is edited from what it was originally. Now taking an even more non-bias approach:1JJlKtwbQu8

First, click on HD to see clearly, if the HD option is there. Not that it's needed.

Somewhere in the middle of 1:27, a shockwave is clearly emitted and then goes to screw up the windows of the building. The stomp undeniably was before said shockwave was released, although whether or not the shockwave was a result of the stomps or punches (or both) from what I can see is speculation since there's probably a fourth of a second in between the stomps and the punches. Nonetheless, the fact there is a huge gap in the video between the stomps and the punches (as a result of slow motion) seems the producers want us to believe the missed blows caused it. In other words, it could just be their way of saying it was the punches and not the stomps.

SamZED
It's clear to me the shockwave came from the punches, but it I admit it's a little hard to see from that video, that was the point of my second argument. In the video above the scene goes to a black screen and the result of a second punch isn't known, but the thing is - there's ANOTHER version of the video that was released before this one. The scene also goes to a black screen but the sound of the battle is still ON even though we don't get to see what happens. Here's that part of the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6RdMYUI9Fk
From the sound it's 100 % clear that the second punches caused the exact same effect even though they didn't stomp the ground, so it's safe to say it were the punches not the stomps, and imo it's clear from the video.
Case closed, gentlemen. cool

Shutter Control
Yes you have a point there, but the question is now what glass did they break? The glass on the building was already broken due to either the stomp or missed punches or both, so was it the glass already broken that got shattered again? (and the fact people are acting it makes much of a difference is amazing since I can't even say the glass breaking due to missed punches is that much more impressive than it breaking because of stomps Jin and Kazuya made to approach one another erm) and the fact this is (or may be later on) compared to arguably a full-powered attack by Akuma doing God knows what to an island of fan-speculated size is even more amazing, but I'll not go there this time.

Shutter Control
By the way, my post is finalized now. Gotta get going so I can't wait for your reply. Peace.

Oh by the way, I'm asking since I think you're saying the glass-shattering sound is given again after the second punch, so this would imply glass was shattered, AGAIN. So I'm wondering which glass broke this time. It seems to be all the glass was broken already.

By the way, I don't think it's safe using the second punch argument. IIRC those actually CONNECTED, so even if they produced the same effect they are different than the first in that they connected.

The other interesting thing to note is one cannot judge things from appearance alone. For example, Jin jumped in the air and punched the ground. That only managed to crack it. One cannot say well then, his stomp would have the same effect. False. Jin and Kazuya stomping/missing each other's faces screwed a building's exterior. Logical conclusion is that Jin's ground punch was not his best one.

SamZED
Originally posted by Shutter Control
Yes you have a point there, but the question is now what glass did they break? The glass on the building was already broken due to either the stomp or missed punches or both, so was it the glass already broken that got shattered again? (and the fact people are acting it makes much of a difference is amazing since I can't even say the glass breaking due to missed punches is that much more impressive than it breaking because of stomps Jin and Kazuya made to approach one another erm) and the fact this is (or may be later on) compared to arguably a full-powered attack by Akuma doing God knows what to an island of fan-speculated size is even more amazing, but I'll not go there this time. True, it doesn't make THAT much of a difference, still doing something like that simply by waving your hand is more impressive that doing it by applying some physical force (even if it's a simple stomp) Dunno, what it broke (does it really matter?) what matters judging by sound it clearly caused at least as much destruction as the previous one. Also even when they throw the first punch it's clear what the stomp caused (ground breaking and some pieces flying up) and what ONLY happened AFTER they actually throw the punches (a visible shockwave shattering and sending every tiny piece flying the hell away from the roof)...
Also we don't see if they connected, I mean it looked like the first punches are going to connect too but they dodged at the last second. But since the lack of a proof isn't a proof we should concider that they connected and even then that's still more impressive because no force was used directly on the building.
And yes I think the punch Jin threw after his bike was broken was FAR from his best one.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by SamZED
Man, I just don't see how you put one thing to another. How does his tekken 5 ending prove that tekken 6 is not canon? confused Asuka's ending in tekken 5 isn't canon, but it doesn't prove that she never fought Lili during tekken 6. Feng's Tekken 5 ending wasn't canon. What was canon is - he found the scroll but it didn't give him any power. His life didn't stop then, he kept fighting training and entered the KOIFT 6. And a clip of him training in tekken 6 is canon, nothing says otherwise. If it showed him beating Azazel or using the power of the scroll you would've been right, but he didn't he was just training and destroyed that boulder under his own power.

He never actually appeared in Tekken 6, just as canonically, Heihachi never appeared in 5. Your trying to chain an event that is not proven to exist. If he where capable of these things, he'd be completely unstoppable because nobody in the entire series has strength anywhere near that high, even Bryan, the one with the highest canon strength feat, would be utterly pulverised by bountain shattering, burning boulder splitting attacks.

Originally posted by SamZED
Actually it is you who are desperately trying to downplay the feat because it's a good display of power for Kazuya and Jin and you don't want that so you're arguing the obvious here. Jin and Kazuya throw the punches, it cause the shockwave, then they throw another and there's another shockwave and that is clear from the video, go check it out again. Im not even arguing, simply stating the obvious. Turn on the sound when Kazuya and Jin throw the second punch and see for youself.

Sam, your sounding bias very badly... I'm not downplaying it, I'm just not going to overzealously say that "Holy shite! their punches missed but look at all that damage!" when it is clear that even landed blows didn't even do that. You guys are too easily impressed. The fat remains, the punches themselves did not cause that damage.

Originally posted by SamZED
What atributes? You said you dont think he's beyong regular Jin or Kazuya but think he'd take them even as Devils? What the f**k? Looks like a controdiction to me. He does have a longrange attacks advantage over regular Jin and Kaz, but if it were a Devil Jin I dont see how he stands even a slightest chance. D Jin just puts up a forcefield around himself like he did when he oneshotted Azazel and tk ftw.

There is a few things wrong with this. First, Kazuyas COMLETED Devil in T2 was defeated by Heihachi, this was before the split and one half went to Jin. To say that these Devils are leagues and leagues beyond their human forms is utter luncacy. Examples are everywhere.

For me, Akuma in strict hand to hand against Jin and Kaz id indeed very close, the Devils too. Al 3 fighters are well accomplished, experienced, and very poweful. Akuma does have the overall speed edge, as well as strength and actual precision (Again, fighting against Gen who is a master of pinpoint nerve strikes several times proves this) does give him a sizable edge, and this is before anything to doo with specials/super arts/ultras.

Once we start factoring in Ki control and specials and stuff like that, the gap does tend to increase phenominally, Jin & Kaz in their regular states are well beyond regular humans in that they have abnormal physical endurance and the Mishima Lightning enhancing their physical attacks, but Akuma is an energy breathing monster. Earth shaking with powerups, and stomps, purple flame inducing hits, thrown ki energy attacks, and specials that wipe out anything the Mishima's could do. Dragon Godfist vs Gou Shoryuken, the two comparable moves from the characters involved in the match, the Godfist is powerful, relatively safe, and is Kazuya's trademark. The Gou Shoryuken though, goes higher, does relatively good damage, hits multiple times, is in every way faster, and in some cases immolates with purple flames, AND is shitloads safer to use.

Shal I continue to other areas?

No End N Site
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I may regret speaking to a suspected Sock...

The feat is NOT official, it never happened, and Feng has no supporting evidence to back him up, whereas Akuma has at least 3 official endings reguarding his feats, and they are those he actually DID do according to the story. Hmmm...I remember that. Plus this weird hatred for DS out of no where...gets me to thinkin'.

SamZED
Originally posted by No End N Site
Hmmm...I remember that. Plus this weird hatred for DS out of no where...gets me to thinkin'. What the f**k? never displayed any kind of hatred towards DS. All I did was try to back up some of the characters I believe are underrated on the forum. Sorry if it looked like an insult.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
He never actually appeared in Tekken 6, just as canonically, Heihachi never appeared in 5. Your trying to chain an event that is not proven to exist. If he where capable of these things, he'd be completely unstoppable because nobody in the entire series has strength anywhere near that high, even Bryan, the one with the highest canon strength feat, would be utterly pulverised by bountain shattering, burning boulder splitting attacks. That was nothing more than an impressive punching feat by tekken standarts and saying that'd make him unstapable is just wrong, heck even Asuka displayed an impressive punch in her (though non-canon) ending and she's a chick. The kind of punch id yet to see some SF top tiers display. And im not trying to chain anything, just stating the obvious. Feng participating in tekken 6 tournament is canon and a fact (not that it has anything to do with the ending). One can argue it but the solid fact is - the ending shows Feng Wei displaying his power. He does it under his own abilities, no amps, no upgrades, during a training and it in no way controdicts the story of the tournament, so it's legit in evety possible way and can be used in a vs forum.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Sam, your sounding bias very badly... I'm not downplaying it, I'm just not going to overzealously say that "Holy shite! their punches missed but look at all that damage!" when it is clear that even landed blows didn't even do that. You guys are too easily impressed. The fat remains, the punches themselves did not cause that damage. Fair enough. I shouldn't make sucha big deal out of it, especially since it doesn't make the feat that less impressive, although it's obvious to me it were the thrown punches that caused the destruction and there are several evidence in the video that back it up. But whatever, there's no further purpose to argue that.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero


There is a few things wrong with this. First, Kazuyas COMLETED Devil in T2 was defeated by Heihachi, this was before the split and one half went to Jin. To say that these Devils are leagues and leagues beyond their human forms is utter luncacy. Examples are everywhere. Ok first of all, that's an a>b>c logic and it shouldn't be used in a vs forum. Second, Heihachi never defeated the Devil. Just because it happened during the gameplay doesn't make it canon. And there are many proofs that Heihachi never met (let alone defeat) the Devil. It was regular Kazuya he tossed into the vulcano, not Devil and there were NO signs of transformation. Second it was clear that the event in honmaru was the very first time he encountered the devil persona and he had no idea who that was. Just a further proof he never fought the Devil. Also it took Devil Kazuya a single tk blast to take hachi down, and that wasn't a full powered Devil, saying that Heihachi could've defeated the Devil is laughable. That display of Devil's power also proves that Devils really ARE leagues and leagues above their human forms.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

For me, Akuma in strict hand to hand against Jin and Kaz id indeed very close, the Devils too. Al 3 fighters are well accomplished, experienced, and very poweful. Akuma does have the overall speed edge, as well as strength and actual precision (Again, fighting against Gen who is a master of pinpoint nerve strikes several times proves this) does give him a sizable edge, and this is before anything to doo with specials/super arts/ultras.

Once we start factoring in Ki control and specials and stuff like that, the gap does tend to increase phenominally, Jin & Kaz in their regular states are well beyond regular humans in that they have abnormal physical endurance and the Mishima Lightning enhancing their physical attacks, but Akuma is an energy breathing monster. Earth shaking with powerups, and stomps, purple flame inducing hits, thrown ki energy attacks, and specials that wipe out anything the Mishima's could do. Dragon Godfist vs Gou Shoryuken, the two comparable moves from the characters involved in the match, the Godfist is powerful, relatively safe, and is Kazuya's trademark. The Gou Shoryuken though, goes higher, does relatively good damage, hits multiple times, is in every way faster, and in some cases immolates with purple flames, AND is shitloads safer to use.

Shal I continue to other areas? Distance attacks aside, im glad you're not arguing that Kazuya and Jin are a match for Akuma in exp and power but your belief that that makes them close in Devil forms is where you're mistaken for reasons I stated above. Speed is a liitle factor here seeing how Jin easilly took care of someone like Raven (whose speed is beyond almost anyone's ive seen in SF) and who could finish the fight with just one stab. Jin beat him without getting a scratch and didn't even look tired, if he can handle THAT kind of speed I dont see why Akuma's should be a problem. As for ki based attack, while they give Akuma advantage over regular Jin or Kaz they'd be pretty much useless against Devils. I don't see how they'd do any better against Jin's forcefield than any other attack. Also Akuma is not tk proof, i believe that several tk blasts (that knocked Heihachi out within half a second) would definitely take Akuma out despite his crazy durability. He just has nothing to counter that with.

Darkstorm Zero
For now, I'm only posting this tidbit because it's nearly midnight and I'm tired...

Akuma has dealt with TK before, From someone far more ept with it too, in the for of Oro, who moves all kinds of stuff with his mind. And Bison who has all kinds of mental powers... Akuma wasted Bison, and was only really sparring with Oro. He also defeated Gill, who posesses a hugely vast array of wonky powers.

No End N Site
Originally posted by SamZED
What the f**k? never displayed any kind of hatred towards DS. All I did was try to back up some of the characters I believe are underrated on the forum. Sorry if it looked like an insult.
I don't think DSZ was talkin' about you. I wasn't.

Darkstorm Zero
No, Neither was I. I was reffering to Shack when I said that Sock stuff.

Shutter Control
Originally posted by SamZED
True, it doesn't make THAT much of a difference, still doing something like that simply by waving your hand is more impressive that doing it by applying some physical force (even if it's a simple stomp) Dunno, what it broke (does it really matter?) what matters judging by sound it clearly caused at least as much destruction as the previous one. Also even when they throw the first punch it's clear what the stomp caused (ground breaking and some pieces flying up) and what ONLY happened AFTER they actually throw the punches (a visible shockwave shattering and sending every tiny piece flying the hell away from the roof)...
Also we don't see if they connected, I mean it looked like the first punches are going to connect too but they dodged at the last second. But since the lack of a proof isn't a proof we should concider that they connected and even then that's still more impressive because no force was used directly on the building.
And yes I think the punch Jin threw after his bike was broken was FAR from his best one. I would say they connected since you hear a bang right before you hear Jin's voice, whereas with the first you hear strong wind.

Yes the stomping caused debris or whatever to rise up, and yes we see the wave of energy after the punches were thrown, but considering that if we take out the slow motion, there will be approximately a 1/4 second gap between the stomp and the missed punches. Just imagine it for yourself. This time gap is way too small for us to determine if the stomp, missed blows, or both emitted the shockwave that caused the collateral damage. Not like it makes a big difference as we agreed before.

goldjoker
akuma can kill kazuya, like he can kill the hulk..

akuma have the power to defeat any boss from street fighter

he killed: gen, bison, gouken
he defeated: gill, pyron, and apocalipse

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by goldjoker
akuma can kill kazuya, like he can kill the hulk..

akuma have the power to defeat any boss from street fighter

he killed: gen, bison, gouken
he defeated: gill, pyron, and apocalipse

Pyron and "Apocalipse?" They aren't even from Street Fighter. And frankly, Pyron could kill Akuma quite easily. If you mean Apocalypse from Marvel comics, then Akuma doesn't stand a chance either.

Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by goldjoker
akuma can kill kazuya, like he can kill the hulk..

akuma have the power to defeat any boss from street fighter

he killed: gen, bison, gouken
he defeated: gill, pyron, and apocalipse

Akuma can kill the Hulk? That was a non-canon crossover.

FWahMaN
Originally posted by goldjoker
akuma can kill kazuyaHow informative. This is meant to discuss who would win, as opposed to who can. Akuma demonstrates no invulnerability against Kazuya's level of power as explained on the first page, either.
Originally posted by goldjoker
, like he can kill the hulk..Or Hulk uses Akumas as tootphicks laughing, and I doubt this even happened in a cross-over. Probably a bullshit MVC gameplay argument.
Originally posted by goldjoker
akuma have the power to defeat any boss from street fighter

he killed: gen, bison, gouken
he defeated: gill, pyron, and apocalipse How about you take a course in English. Also you're comparing Street Fighters to Marvel powerhouses like the Hulk. Hence proof you're overrating. wink

No End N Site
Akuma's new TAZmanian ROFLcopter will destroy Kazuya, despite it's ridiculousness. Lol, that Ultra is just so over-the-top.

Hell Lancer
can Kazuya go devil? or is it just kazuya?
if devil, the devil wins
if not, then akuma wins. but it'll be tough given Kazuya's power and damage soak.

Hell Lancer
@Darkstorm Zero:
akuma fighting Oro was just a casual, non-serious battle. so it doesn't count.
akuma JUMPED bison. doesn't count.
akuma JUMPED Gill. doesn't count.

so all your theory of "akuma fought wonky powers before but it never bothered him" doesn't hold because two of three people with wonky powers didn't even know wtf happened by the time he took their souls to the devil (and still phucked up somehow cuz they both came back). the third dude with wonky powers wasn't even fighting him seriously.

goldjoker
my english isnt good im from argentina
if kazuya goes devil
akuma goes shin akuma..

SHUN GOKU SATSU

Hell Lancer
akuma IS shin akuma. shin akuma is just akuma not holding back.

SGS means he takes Kazuya's soul to hell....which means he takes devil to hell....which means he's taking a demon to its own dimension.

No End N Site
Originally posted by goldjoker
my english isnt good im from argentina
if kazuya goes devil
akuma goes shin akuma..

SHUN GOKU SATSU

No, try SHIN SHUN GOKU SATSU.

Ssgs. It's Akuma's Ultra.

Hell Lancer
they are the same person, genius.....

FWahMaN
Originally posted by goldjoker
my english isnt good im from argentinaApparently. Sorry for the comment by the way.

Originally posted by goldjoker
if kazuya goes devil
akuma goes shin akuma..When did anyone say either is holding back?

Originally posted by goldjoker
SHUN GOKU SATSU Oh yes, that thing that will work on any Marvel or Dragonball Z character as well. You know, the thing we've never seen in canon media and is wanked ad infinitum by a number of people. The move that isn't proven to work on everyone Akuma's fighting, even fighters in his own universe. erm

...

Basically, it's Akuma taking his opponent on a ride to hell. Seeing as the attack only involves demons attacking the opponent (although based on the severity of his or her sins, not that the demons don't have set limits unless officially stated otherwise)...and all attributes of these demons are unknown and/or speculated...

Oh and holy shkitz, the votes are practically tied? Phew, that's a good sign...

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
@Darkstorm Zero:
akuma fighting Oro was just a casual, non-serious battle. so it doesn't count.
akuma JUMPED bison. doesn't count.
akuma JUMPED Gill. doesn't count.

so all your theory of "akuma fought wonky powers before but it never bothered him" doesn't hold because two of three people with wonky powers didn't even know wtf happened by the time he took their souls to the devil (and still phucked up somehow cuz they both came back). the third dude with wonky powers wasn't even fighting him seriously.

Casual or not, Akuma did fight Oro and his powers.

Jumping him from the front... Riiiight. Not another shitty argument about the Bison fight.

WTF? He never jumped Gill.... Where are you pulling this bile from?

So once again, youe wrong and you have nothing but conspiracy theories and nonsense.

Kirikaze Fuuma
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Casual or not, Akuma did fight Oro and his powers.

Jumping him from the front... Riiiight. Not another shitty argument about the Bison fight.

WTF? He never jumped Gill.... Where are you pulling this bile from?



Just few correction, DSZ, IN SF III second impact, Gouki attacked Gill with SGS and killed Gill. But later Gill revived himself.

Hell Lancer
but there is NO proof that Oro used his telekinesis. telekinesis is not Oro's main powers but merely used in one of his specials which he could or could not have used against Akuma. now unless you can prove that he did, we'll just have to assume that your evidence is inconclusive at best.


wait...are you arguing against the fact that Akuma (who was not even supposed to be in the tournament) killed Bison and somehow Bison was prepared for it? heck, in the game itself we see Akuma come out of nowhere and do it.


he does. pretty much the same way he does in SSF2T. i'm basing it off on that. where are you basing the Gill/Akuma fight and its outcome from?


you're jumping to conclusions. i'm telling you that all three of your "facts" are inconclusive.

FWahMaN
Cats are cool.

FWahMaN
My mistake earlier. Blanka's design was based primarily on Marvel's Hulk since Banner theorizes that Blanka's mutation was caused by gamma radiation as his was. This is all in MVC. Going by that, Akuma can beat the Hulk using minimal effort.

Which two people recently voted for Akuma? They should be beheaded. big grin

Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by FWahMaN
Cats are cool.

http://lolcat.com/images/lolcats/293.jpg

FWahMaN
Finally. Some people oughtta show some respect around here.

Hell Lancer
you know what they don't talk about much in public anymore?




















pvssy farts wink

FWahMaN
weep

LLLLLink
You mean quefes?
Do not want.

FWahMaN
-Edit- sick

Jordanmk4eva
this is such an insult to akuma........... im not even going to say anything else besides this......................................................................................................................................AKUMA DESTROYS KAZUYA EASILY.

Hell Lancer
its because you've GOT nothing to say besides unproven, exaggerated fanboy claims that have been busted long ago along with the lokness monster and big foot.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
its because you've GOT nothing to say besides unproven, exaggerated fanboy claims that have been busted long ago along with the lokness monster and big foot.

It's a real shame that your side of the argument offers nothing but jack and shit besides vague halucinations for Kazuya.

I am not one for people jumping in out of nowhere and offering nothing but one dude wins over the other, but lets be fair... In terms of actual demonstrated capability, Kazuya has no actual feats to even come close to Akuma's in the long run.

FWahMaN
Hallucination based on what? What was said about Kazuya that wasn't accurate?

Hardly anything (arguments, stated facts that are not from makers) is completely confirmed when it comes to character showings in fiction but I'll be specific with Akuma today, and there will be some speculation to come to desirable or logical ends (read the latest post in SF vs MK to see what I mean). This is true with Kazuya and Akuma's case. Most if not all of Akuma's doings, involved speculation to create the image of him in the minds of some KMC members. Some see him as an "island sinker" (most common image) even when, some speculation was thrown in to justify this portrayal of Akuma. I've yet to see people do this with Kazuya, on the other hand. No one knows about the character because no one goes around saying as much as a bit of relative information..

Yes...there was a claim saying Kazuya vanished the Mishima Zaibatsu in the sense he blinked it. That kind of speculation is the same, since "vanished" can imply absolute destruction, blinking out, etc. It all comes down to how one wants to see it. Devil's power in the T4 ending of Kazuya (same whole Devil in T2) arguably eradicated the Mishima Zaibatsu and the area around it as stated (in the game). This isn't canon but is a what-if situation where Kazuya became full (like before...so prime Kazuya is from Tekken 2). Instead of mentioning the word sock as it has nothing to do with the discussion, why not explain in your own words the meaning of "that day, the Mishima Zaibatsu compound and the area surrounding it vanished without a trace" so we can increase our knowledge of possible explanations for this statement? Since my guess isn't absolute, neither is what people concluded based on Ryu's ending with Akuma in it. All that is known from that is Akuma punched the island, and in a matter of time it crumbled (crumbling animation in the sea with Ryu). That could've been Akuma's strength or ki that did it, and/or the demolition was due to a chain reaction (which would then mean it wasn't fully Akuma's fault for the vanishing of the island from where it was). How informative do you think one should expect a 90's ending of a video game to be anyway? Though that doesn't mean much I guess.

Anyway here's Kuma's T5 prologue another time showing the Zaibatsu half-way through...if anyone is interested in seeing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHgSHKV6oFo

FWahMaN
"Stated facts" should have been "statements" in the beginning of my post, mayz badd.

Darkstorm Zero
Well the fact that Devil Kaz never actually "Vanished" anything, the deplorable number of times people reffer to the crumbling glass event in the arcade intro of Tekken 6 (Which by the way was probably nothing more than eye candy, since the actual story introductions never refference this, and in fact Kazuya and Jin have never met bitween Tekkens 5 and 6 to actually do this event seems to skip over most peoples perceptions and simply state 'But he can!"wink

Ms.Marvel
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
It's a real shame that your side of the argument offers nothing but jack and shit besides vague halucinations for Kazuya.


... and jack left town? laughing out loud

Hell Lancer
don't see why this needs to get personal. unbunch your panties.


i never said Kazuya wins actually, unless he turns devil.
the only probelm i have is people saying Kaz has no feats. the glass shattering with the sheer force of his blows and the sheer damage soak involved in someone being 8 and suriving a fall into a trench easily rivals what akuma does. not surpasses, but rivals. and i'd go so far as point out that if kaz could survive that massive trench fall at the age of 8 then its LOGICAL to assume that his damage soak has only gotten higher than that now that he's an expert fighter, has tons of fighting experience AND the devil gene.

the bullet shattering effect is from the intro. deal with it.

StyleTime
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Well the fact that Devil Kaz never actually "Vanished" anything, the deplorable number of times people reffer to the crumbling glass event in the arcade intro of Tekken 6 (Which by the way was probably nothing more than eye candy, since the actual story introductions never refference this, and in fact Kazuya and Jin have never met bitween Tekkens 5 and 6 to actually do this event seems to skip over most peoples perceptions and simply state 'But he can!"wink
I've been saying this since before Tekken 6 even dropped. sad
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
kaz could survive that massive trench fall at the age of 8 then its LOGICAL to assume that his damage soak has only gotten higher than that now

The ultimate problem is measuring the increase. There's no formula we can use to say his durability increases by "x" over "y" amount of time.

....unless THERE IS! DUHN DUHN DUUUHN!!!

No really, there's not. Stop making me do that.

FWahMaN
Quoted thanks to StyleTime (who's been gone from here for God knows how long) doing the same and hence rendering my ignore list useless. haermm

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Well the fact that Devil Kaz never actually "Vanished" anything,Sort of like many ridden Street Fighter feats that never happened but only in comics and movies. I've mentioned "proven capability" and this is all in the last post as well as on the first page you didn't attempt to refute. Saying nothing was vanished and/or Kazuya didn't do it is no different that arguing the same for Akuma and the island, as anyone can say "it doesn't say Akuma did it (since it doesn't, that being the narrator)" and all that is shown to justify this is one, shitty still-image of Akuma's fist on the ground. Why not use logic and say Akuma destroyed his island (which is of speculated size) and Kazuya, if he were to complete his goal and enact revenge on the Zaibatsu (since he's been an enemy of it ever since) caused the Zaibatsu (which is also, of speculated size and has a picture of it just like the island does from far away. Watch Kuma's T5 prologue if you haven't.) to "vanish without a trace" once becoming full as before, hence this is a power level previously achieved. Because a Tekken character cannot rival Akuma, I forgot.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
the deplorable number of times people reffer to the crumbling glass event in the arcade intro of Tekken 6 (Which by the way was probably nothing more than eye candy, since the actual story introductions never refference this, and in fact Kazuya and Jin have never met bitween Tekkens 5 and 6 to actually do this event seems to skip over most peoples perceptions and simply state 'But he can!"wink What did we say before? You want to bring up how many showings in SF that aren't canon but people like you use in their arguments? And this coming from the guy who's telling people to look for proof of Capcom's supposed statement of "the animes have accurate portrayals of character showings", please. If they are by the makers themselves, it's a little stupid to say they didn't portray their characters accurately. Yes, I am talking about non-canon endings. I thought this was a dead discussion.

Darkstorm Zero
I never made anything personal HellLancer.

Originally posted by FWahMaN
Sort of like many ridden Street Fighter feats that never happened but only in comics and movies. I've mentioned "proven capability" and this is all in the last post as well as on the first page you didn't attempt to refute. Saying nothing was vanished and/or Kazuya didn't do it is no different that arguing the same for Akuma and the island, as anyone can say "it doesn't say Akuma did it (since it doesn't, that being the narrator)" and all that is shown to justify this is one, shitty still-image of Akuma's fist on the ground. Why not use logic and say Akuma destroyed his island (which is of speculated size) and Kazuya, if he were to complete his goal and enact revenge on the Zaibatsu (since he's been an enemy of it ever since) caused the Zaibatsu (which is also, of speculated size and has a picture of it just like the island does from far away. Watch Kuma's T5 prologue if you haven't.) to "vanish without a trace" once becoming full as before, hence this is a power level previously achieved. Because a Tekken character cannot rival Akuma, I forgot.

What did we say before? You want to bring up how many showings in SF that aren't canon but people like you use in their arguments? And this coming from the guy who's telling people to look for proof of Capcom's supposed statement of "the animes have accurate portrayals of character showings", please. If they are by the makers themselves, it's a little stupid to say they didn't portray their characters accurately. Yes, I am talking about non-canon endings. I thought this was a dead discussion.

Name one time I have used a non-canon instance to rpove a point. Every time I mention anything non-canon, I specifically mark it as so. AND, If I do mention anything like that, it is because the creators SPECIFICLLY state that that is what the character is capable of, I don't run around making vague assumptions to the effect of "If they made it in an intro, then it's possable!" No... Creative lisence renders this kind of statement relatively null and void.

Events like Nightmare's army slaying is an exeption because he does this all the time. As for the Anime's and the Comics for Capcom, I only stated that stuff because it was confirmed, I hardly ever use it myself, thats like using CVS or MVC stuff.

Hell Lancer
Darkstorm Zero: we have no reason to suspect the intro because its from the intro, and everything in the intro of tekken has always been canon (from T1 all the way to T5). no reason to suspect otherwise.
and if ANY of you have reasons to doubt it: take Hwoarang's prologue which talks about how he was blasted away with just the release of power when Jin turned to Devil. now as we all know, devil powers is something accessable with or without morphing because its in their blood, its their genetic code.

problem solved.

FWahMaN
...But we see Jin transformed. That wasn't a good example, Hellsing.

You should've used when Jin confronted Azazel. He brought out the Devil Gene without even having to have some kind of tattoo on his forehead. That's when he used the gene without transforming.

As for the intro, it is the Bloodline Rebellion intro. No reason to think it's not canon. That's like saying because we don't see Asuka on her bike anywhere in prologues or "in the game", then it's "eye candy" in the T5 intro. Quite stupid logic actually.

Bloodline Rebellion was also not eye candy. It is the BR intro in the openings gallery of Tekken 6. Tekken 6 has:

-Tekken 6 Opening Movie
-Tekken 6 Arcade Version Opening Movie
-Tekken 6 BR Opening Movie
-Scenario Campaign Opening Movie

But, only the 3rd one isn't canon because it has a feat signifying some degree of threat to the SF verse. laughing

Hell Lancer
he's being a fanboy. we give him proof from the INTRO of the game and he's talking about it being non-canon een though every opening of tekken has ALWAYS been canonical and we have yet to come across any statement by Namco that says that the videos they show are not canonical. he insists its not canon but insists that the island busting is a feat even though we know 1) how shaky the translation is 2) how badly Capcom of USA tends to phuck things up in translations 3) how there is no concrete evidence of the size of the island

PS. up yours Fawh-whatever, i'm not reading your huge as PM's

FWahMaN
He's going to say they never met in between, but evidence is present and against him (I'd say as usual) since the introductions are there.

- Arguing the intro isn't canon is saying Bloodline Rebellion isn't canon. This is no different than when someone argues Dark Resurrection isn't. They practically serve the same purpose - adding new characters and facts to the storyline. This is not the same as Tekken Tag which plays no major plot purpose IIRC. What I will say though is it's wierd that in Tekken 5, we see Heihachi get up from the grave in the morning during his interludes with Raven, but in the Dark Resurrection intro we see him rising at night...so this could be an edit of facts, or Heihachi took a nap again and rose one night again, I'm not sure. Even still, BR is after Tekken 6, and none of the introductions contradict one another to even begin considering to say something they show isn't canon.

- If it's eye candy and something Namco used as a prototype or tossed in the bin, why is it on all copies of the game in the opening movie gallery? Showing 4 different intros which are...you guessed it. All canon (someone care to tell me when an intro to a game let alone a fighting game wasn't canon? :laughsmile Why don't we all also just say the scenario campaign intro was "eye candy" as well? Seeing as it's never "referred" to in cutscenes and prologues? The reason that's obvious is, never has Tekken had a non-canon intro, IIRC, so to say that all of a sudden there's one now, and using an idiotic reason like "that event isn't referred to in prologues" is no different than arguing half of the Tekken 5 intro is "eye candy" because Tekken 5 cutscenes/prologues don't mention half the shit that showed up in the intro.

All of this talk seems senseless since one would think in an intro Namco probably spent a good month or two on, the hard-working designer isn't going to point at the moment Jin and Kazuya shatter the glass and scream: "No they can't do that!" laughing

And it's FWahMaN sad

No End N Site
Akuma FTW!!! 'Specially if your a school bus.

http://schoolbuses.ytmnd.com/

http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/11418-2/AkumaBus.gif

Darkstorm Zero
Pretty big and dirty words coming from a sock Lancer

The Intro's always been Canon? Right, because Heihachi's face silluettes those machines that become the Tekken Logo right? GTFO.

And the endings are canon because they are nessisary for the story to progress, plus have been cited, give me one refference that cites that event ever actually happening within the story and you might have me at a disadvantage. Until you have this, then please go and stroke yourself to Tekken porn in private rather than in my face. You made this personal just now.

The only two in that list that are official FWah, are the first and last ones, because they actually contain events within the continuity, Where did Kazuya and Jin clash before the events of T6 but after T5? Within the canon, they didn't... This is all the proof I require until you can cite me something with more story orientated material than a fuggin intro.

Hell Lancer
wtf? now you can read people's mind too? roll eyes (sarcastic)


tekken2:
kaz standing in the tower as ruler=canon
heihachi climbing out of ravine=canon
michelle finding her house ravaged and mom missing=canon
paul driving around=obviously canon cuz he's a biker
yoshi checking out his mechanic arm=canon
Jack finding jane=canon
king bumming around and rescued by Aking=canon

Tekken3:
jin getting that devil signet=canon
heiachi finding the ruins=canon
eddy breaking from jail=canon
hwoarang leading jin away=canon
nina waking up=canon
xiao fighting=canon

tekken4:
EVERYTHING was canon

tekken5:
hachi/kaz fighting and explosion=canon
jin going apeshit in the forest=canon
feng training and killing his master=canon
king and marduk fighitng=canon
hwoa and steve fighting=probably canon
jinpachi waking up=canon

tekken5DR:
pretty much the same

Fail.

and all of a sudden we have to doubt this tekken because YOU think it shouldn't be canon? *in best terry bogard imitation* GET SERIOUS!

very few endings in Tekken4 and Tekken5 were actually canon. off the top of my head: bryan, yoshi, asuka, kazuya, heihachi, feng, paul, steve (iirc), christie, jinpachi, lee, etc etc

FAIL.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
wtf? now you can read people's mind too? roll eyes (sarcastic)

You've signed off as Sado more than once... don't try and be a smartass, especially whn your talking about stuff that was said 2 to 3 years old.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
tekken2:
kaz standing in the tower as ruler=canon
heihachi climbing out of ravine=canon
michelle finding her house ravaged and mom missing=canon
paul driving around=obviously canon cuz he's a biker
yoshi checking out his mechanic arm=canon
Jack finding jane=canon
king bumming around and rescued by Aking=canon

#1: Kaz in the tower was corroborated

#2: Again it had to happen otherwise he wouldn't be there.

#3: That had to happen or michelle wouldn't be in it.

#4: ....... Pointless plug for Paul

#5: Again pointless plug it offers nothing, and like Pauls, is uncorroborated

#6: By the end of Tekken 1 Jack & Jane where already together, uncorroborated

#7: Again, unnessisary.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
Tekken3:
jin getting that devil signet=canon
heiachi finding the ruins=canon
eddy breaking from jail=canon
hwoarang leading jin away=canon
nina waking up=canon
xiao fighting=canon

#1: Uncorroborated, and vague beyond beleif

#2: Corroborated, so yes

#3:Corroborated

#4: Uncorroborated, since when did Ho'Rang lead jin anywhere?

#5: Corroborated

#6: Completely unsubstaniated, uncorroborated.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
tekken4:
EVERYTHING was canon

Granted, since it actually gets corroboration in the game, this is one of the few intros I would consider nessisary, along with a sizable portion of the original T5 intro.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
tekken5:
hachi/kaz fighting and explosion=canon
jin going apeshit in the forest=canon
feng training and killing his master=canon
king and marduk fighitng=canon
hwoa and steve fighting=probably canon
jinpachi waking up=canon

#1: yes, because it's supported

#2: Again, it gets some corroboration in Jins intro

#3: Yes, it serves to intoduce Feng, confirmed.

#4: Uncorroborated, since there's no telling when they actually fought in the story.

#5: And right here is a weak assed assumption on your part.

#6: Possibly, However, you either take this one, or the DR one.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
tekken5DR:
pretty much the same

Fail.

and all of a sudden we have to doubt this tekken because YOU think it shouldn't be canon? *in best terry bogard imitation* GET SERIOUS!

No dude, as you've seen, I can pick apart your intro's by scene and I can tell you that in a lot of cases, they don't match storyline structure. You completely failed to answer my question earlier; WHERE bitween tekkens 5 and 6 did Jin and Kazuya fight? Prove that or GTFO.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
very few endings in Tekken4 and Tekken5 were actually canon. off the top of my head: bryan, yoshi, asuka, kazuya, heihachi, feng, paul, steve (iirc), christie, jinpachi, lee, etc etc

FAIL.

You unbeleivable ijit! I said that in response to your attacking the use of SFer endings! wink

Hell Lancer
don't know what you're talking about roll eyes (sarcastic)


wait, so now you're arguing against canonical things in intros by arguing that they wouldn't be there otherwise? loco! :/
and all these "pointless plugs" showed NOTHING that didn't happen or couldn't happen. be it paul riding or yoshi checking out his hand. the entire point of all this is that the intros are not only canon but show things that have happened/things that have no reason to be negated.

look at all these intros and tell me ONE that couldnt' have possibly happaned. and as for Jack's ending, wrong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXJxTIRbXUw
jack met jane prior to the events of Tekken2.

Marduk and King fought in T4 AND T5 because that's why they became friends in T6. read their prologues, genius, they fought to a stalemate and began to respect one another. and hence, they obviously fought which was already shown in the intro. FAIL.

where did Jin/Kaz fight prior to T5 and T6? *facepalm*
the entire point of all this is that intros never show anything that didn't happen either before the tourny or during it. stop acting like a moron, dude.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
where did Jin/Kaz fight prior to T5 and T6? *facepalm*
the entire point of all this is that intros never show anything that didn't happen either before the tourny or during it. stop acting like a moron, dude.

READ WHAT I SAY!!!!
When did they fight bitween tekkens 5 and 6.

answer this and stop acting like a douchebag, or GTFO.

No End N Site
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
You've signed off as Sado more than once... don't try and be a smartass, especially whn your talking about stuff that was said 2 to 3 years old.
LMBAO!

Hell Lancer
darkstorm....when did King and Marduk fight between T4 and T5?

FWahMaN
It's amusing when calling out one or two people's bs (which states their assumptions based on official info are right, and all other similar guesses are incorrect) the one being called out resorts to accusing the other poster of being a sock (one reason is to steer the discussion away from its intended purpose, since he or they already have acknowledged defeat), for the main purpose of hopefully getting the other poster banned, so he/they can roam the boards, freely spouting their bs for others to listen to and accept.

Ironic is the fact someone's arguing T6BR's intro's canonicity and saying it not being canon means whatever was in it is not possible, while he would argue Chun Li's Alpha 3 ending, which is not canon (since IIRC, Ryu's is and both cannot be as far as the events and diaologue of both endings on vgmuseum, meaning they both could not have happened) proves M. Bison "can" demolish a capital/city, despite that he miserably fails in Chun's ending. So to recap, a noncanonical intro depicts lies, but a noncanonical SF ending doesn't because it's...SF. Right...

http://www.loldawgz.com/dawgz/hilarious.jpg

laughing

No End N Site
Actaully, Bison fires the city vapin' beam in the Crimson Viper SFIV After Math Trailer as well. We don't have to go by Alpha 3 anymore. How much do you really know about SF? Just a question, I feel like I've met you before FWahMaN...

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
darkstorm....when did King and Marduk fight between T4 and T5?

That wasn't the question I asked... You have failed on 3 occasions to answer a simple question, You have failed to provide any sort of adequate evidence.

You are no longer worth talking to.

As for you FWah, I have never used that argument, don't try that shit with me. No, I never did that for that purpose, had you been here for 3 years, you would know I have no desire to get people banned... I actually had respect for Sado.

I didn't use Chun Li's ending as anything, WTF are you on about?

Hell Lancer
Darko, I'm asking you a simple question: you're asking me where kaz/jin fought before T6 and all I can really say is this=stfu and wait for T7. but that aint an answer is it? so, we go back and look at older intros which goes back to the point i've been trying to drive home in your thick skull since day one: there is NOTHING in the intros of any of those games since T1 that has given us any reason to doubt that those events didn't happen and to doubt their canonity in terms of ability.

why you don't get this is beyond me.


P.S. i remember Sado always had respect for you despite all the disagreements. you guys would argue and have great make up sex wink

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
Darko, I'm asking you a simple question: you're asking me where kaz/jin fought before T6 and all I can really say is this=stfu and wait for T7. but that aint an answer is it? so, we go back and look at older intros which goes back to the point i've been trying to drive home in your thick skull since day one: there is NOTHING in the intros of any of those games since T1 that has given us any reason to doubt that those events didn't happen and to doubt their canonity in terms of ability.

why you don't get this is beyond me.


P.S. i remember Sado always had respect for you despite all the disagreements. you guys would argue and have great make up sex wink

Alright, you want to be vague and evasive, here: King and Marduk fought During Tekken 5. However, we see from Scenario mode that Jin and Kaz havn't fought since the Honmaru incident.

Right there, in 3 lines I just destroyed your canonicity argument.

Hell Lancer
and yet, Heihachi's entire T5 was NONCANON during the game...but he was in the game, had a full storymode complete with cutscenes and what not. what does that tell you, nitwit? stick out tongue

thus, Sado's bedroom b!tch, just because something is shown in scenario campaigns and in-game stories doesn't mean that's exactly how things went. that said, this entire argument was about how whatever is shown in game OPENINGS is canonical, not in-game stuff.

and you have been horribly pwned as far as that argument is concerned.

FWahMaN
Saw this on the page:...Wow...

A faded animation of Heihachi's face in front of a Tekken logo, something that is obviously not depicting an event, and I am still laughing at how some would refer to Chun Li's never occurred Alpha 3 ending to prove Bison can pull off a certain thing, even when it hurts than helps (since he roflfailed..).

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
and yet, Heihachi's entire T5 was NONCANON during the game...but he was in the game, had a full storymode complete with cutscenes and what not. what does that tell you, nitwit? stick out tongue

That tells me that Heihachi was non canon.... What is your point?

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
thus, Sado's bedroom b!tch, just because something is shown in scenario campaigns and in-game stories doesn't mean that's exactly how things went. that said, this entire argument was about how whatever is shown in game OPENINGS is canonical, not in-game stuff.

You idiot.... The entire exerise was to show that just because the developers made it, does not mean that it is canon... Please tell me you are not THAT thick and gullible...

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
and you have been horribly pwned as far as that argument is concerned.

You are HORRENDOUSLY wrong here. The only thing you have thusfar demonstrated is that you cannot tell the difference bitween artistic lisence and actual canon events/ You are a hypocondriact and hypocrite.

Originally posted by FWahMaN
Saw this on the page:...Wow...

A faded animation of Heihachi's face in front of a Tekken logo, something that is obviously not depicting an event, and I am still laughing at how some would refer to Chun Li's never occurred Alpha 3 ending to prove Bison can pull off a certain thing, even when it hurts than helps (since he roflfailed..).

I'll ask again, when did I use this? Do NOT use other peoples arguments as a staple of my own, I can debate quite fine without the backup you so desperately need for yourself.

Hell Lancer
*facepalm*
if an entire character scenario can be shown to be non-canon in the next game why are you so anally fixated on T6 scenario campaign as being exactly what happened? did it occur to you that prior to T6BR, the entire premise of T6 was Jin and Kazuya fighting and Lars wasn't even in the picture?

also, they could easily have fought at any other point before T6 given that kazuya himself is the one who put the bounty on his head. why can't they not fight? if King and Marduk could fight (which you seem to accept btw) why is it impossible for Jin and Kazuya to fight eachother, given that that's the central theme of T6, they hate eachother and both of them have been trying to beat eachother since T4.


dude, you tried to argue about the endings and only showed that you don't recall most endings. stop embarrassing yourself sad

FWahMaN
T6 prologues aren't everything, also. They are not all the info needed to confirm what's canon and not. Nowhere in T5 prologues does it confim Raven fighting Heihachi though we know from T6, Raven fighting Heihachi is canon to T5. What someone is arguing is T6BR intro is not canon since it's not referred to in prologues...ok, where in the prologues of T5 confirm Asuka riding on roof buildings and saving a cat? I'm sure that's not canon either. I'm sure Feng kicking Lei in the chin, and Jinpachi lifting the boulder off is also not, because of the "it's not confirmed in prologues" logic. Now since when prologues can confirm canon events but intros cannot really beats me. Saying something like "I see Heihachi's face in front of a Tekken logo!" is dumb. That is obviously not depicting any sort of event, be it canon or uncanon. That's like complaining about his face showing up with the Tekken logo at the end of the T5 intro. Again, that part doesn't depict an event. Much like gameplay appearing on Xiaoyu's phone in the train of T6BR's intro. Event-wise it was obviously not Tekken gameplay but a call or a text message, but logic says Namco put it there to legitimize gameplay in the intro in a showy manner. That part has nothing to do with canon and is the eye candy part. This is no different than logos or writings/flashing text/etc.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
*facepalm*
if an entire character scenario can be shown to be non-canon in the next game why are you so anally fixated on T6 scenario campaign as being exactly what happened? did it occur to you that prior to T6BR, the entire premise of T6 was Jin and Kazuya fighting and Lars wasn't even in the picture?

Right, because events always happen twice in Tekken. My word, the actual idea of new canon overriding old canon never even crosses your mind... Now I see why you are having difficulty understanding the basic principals of the rules of canonicity...

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
also, they could easily have fought at any other point before T6 given that kazuya himself is the one who put the bounty on his head. why can't they not fight? if King and Marduk could fight (which you seem to accept btw) why is it impossible for Jin and Kazuya to fight eachother, given that that's the central theme of T6, they hate eachother and both of them have been trying to beat eachother since T4.

You don't seem to understand anything I'm telling you. Unlike the Marduk vs King fight, which was actually corroborated on by later events, Jin fighting Cazuya after the Honmaru event never actually happened anywhere, since Kaz was never anywhere near Jinpachi, and Jin after that point was reorganizing the Zaibatsu, organizing a war. Kaz was busy dealing with the G Corp traitors and reorganizing the G Corp for war against the Zaibatsu. Where would they have had the time to have a fight like that? Remember, Jin was prolonging the war to draw out Azazel, if he had confronted Kazuya directly too early, he was risking not drawing out Azazel, which was his entire goal of starting the war in the first place...

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
dude, you tried to argue about the endings and only showed that you don't recall most endings. stop embarrassing yourself sad

Given the fact that you miss almost every underlying truth within the story, I would say that you cannot seem to follow basic chain of events, much less anything more subtle.

Originally posted by FWahMaN
T6 prologues aren't everything, also. They are not all the info needed to confirm what's canon and not. Nowhere in T5 prologues does it confim Raven fighting Heihachi though we know from T6, Raven fighting Heihachi is canon to T5. What someone is arguing is T6BR intro is not canon since it's not referred to in prologues...ok, where in the prologues of T5 confirm Asuka riding on roof buildings and saving a cat? I'm sure that's not canon either. I'm sure Feng kicking Lei in the chin, and Jinpachi lifting the boulder off is also not, because of the "it's not confirmed in prologues" logic. Now since when prologues can confirm canon events but intros cannot really beats me. Saying something like "I see Heihachi's face in front of a Tekken logo!" is dumb. That is obviously not depicting any sort of event, be it canon or uncanon. That's like complaining about his face showing up with the Tekken logo at the end of the T5 intro. Again, that part doesn't depict an event. Much like gameplay appearing on Xiaoyu's phone in the train of T6BR's intro. Event-wise it was obviously not Tekken gameplay but a call or a text message, but logic says Namco put it there to legitimize gameplay in the intro in a showy manner. That part has nothing to do with canon and is the eye candy part. This is no different than logos or writings/flashing text/etc.

Do you not read what I say?

Anything that receives corroboration within the story IS canon, and nothing else... What is so difficult to understand about that?

Hell Lancer
basic principles of the rules of canoncity according to who? you?
gtfo.
look, all i'm saying is that we know from following the past 5 canonical games that events shown INGAME aren't necessarily what happened. take tekken2 for instance. for years people have been assuming that Heihachi fought Devil Kazuya after beating Kazuya and we find out (like i've always said) that he never did.
stop being a moron and try to see what i'm saying.

as for your jin/kaz theory, let me point out something very simple to you:
1) kaz doesn't give a shite about jin's plans. he wants his power back. the intro shows KAZUYA's squadron attacking Jin.
2) what makes you think the battle was to the finish? also from the looks of it, its pretty obvious jin wasn't on Zaibatsu grounds. its pretty obvious that somehow Kaz got him cornered and attacked. all these things make sense...if you have sense smile
3) and lastly, since its in the intro and we've never doubted anything shown in intros before why are we starting now? because its better than anything ryu's done? wink

as for endings, i'm not the one who's got his fact all wrong.

FWahMaN
1. Jin and Kazuya's full-powered stomps shattered the building glass, not their missed blows. Missed punches doing that is impossible........even though Jin punched the roof ground prior to the stomping and it didn't shatter much more than a little bit of the ground itself.

2. Akuma crushed an island with his physical strength.

Just let it go Lancer.

Hell Lancer
LOL. his satsui-no-fanboy knows no bounds laughing out loud

FWahMaN
Yes it does, though yeah he does have da powa.

FWahMaN
Sorry I meant "Akuma crushed/sunk an island which is factually bigger than the Zaibatsu compound and the area surrounding it/shifted the Earth's crust" with his physical strength, even though Ryu's ending does not state Akuma let alone his strength was the cause of the demolition. Only a shit scan of his fist on the ground is shown, but logic would say Akuma was the cause (and fully or mostly due to his strength and not his ki, even though the sprite relevant to the attack involves spreaking ki). Actually, it's a fact as well and I can't prove it. However logic would not say that in Kazuya's T4 ending, Devil caused the area to vanish, nor is this speculated power level on a canon level because Tekken is not on the level of Street Fighter, even though what I said makes no sense and sounds like fanboy rubbish, because, I don't know. It's not fact like Akuma doing push-ups and pushing down the Earth like the online version of Chuck Norris. laughing

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
basic principles of the rules of canoncity according to who? you?
gtfo.

According to any debate involving fiction, you ignorant troll...

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
look, all i'm saying is that we know from following the past 5 canonical games that events shown INGAME aren't necessarily what happened. take tekken2 for instance. for years people have been assuming that Heihachi fought Devil Kazuya after beating Kazuya and we find out (like i've always said) that he never did.
stop being a moron and try to see what i'm saying.

Ok, so even though your NOW saying that some events are canon, Opening are always canon? You come up with some of the craziest bullshit you know that?

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
as for your jin/kaz theory, let me point out something very simple to you:
1) kaz doesn't give a shite about jin's plans. he wants his power back. the intro shows KAZUYA's squadron attacking Jin.

Uhuh, and yet you have not A: proven the battle took place, and B: given no logical reason for Jin roving the streets alone, and C: definitely have no reason for him to show up on Kazuya's doorstep and ATTACKING him at the top of a G Corp stronghold building....

Right, Kazuya initiated THAT attack.... Clearly....

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
2) what makes you think the battle was to the finish? also from the looks of it, its pretty obvious jin wasn't on Zaibatsu grounds. its pretty obvious that somehow Kaz got him cornered and attacked. all these things make sense...if you have sense smile

Read above... The actual scene that sparked this whole debate was Jin and Kaz fighting on Kaz's helipad. I never said it was a Zaibatzu building, Jin is ATTACKING a G Corp facility.... Solo. Thats not what any leader does during a war, and it would DEFINITELY have been elaborated on in later events if it happened. AND we know that he was not ready for Azazel prior to T6BR. If he where, why bother with a massive military buildup? he would have just ridden to Kazuya, and fought with him, then move onto Azazel right away and not bothered with a tournament either...

I refuse to beleive you are THIS ignorant, so I'm going to now assume your pulling crap out of your ass to save yourself.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
3) and lastly, since its in the intro and we've never doubted anything shown in intros before why are we starting now? because its better than anything ryu's done? wink

Why are you bringing up Ryu? He has nothing to do with this... Your obsessed...

I have always taken intro's with a grain of salt, Unless it's coroborated by events prior to, or after the events that confirm or deny that they happened, then why should we take tham in? I'll give you an example: the Street Fighter 4 intro depicting Gouki fighting Gouken never happened, because A: they never clashed in a Volcano, and B: It's unconfirmed wether or not they actually clashed anywhere else.

Now I could use that scene to literally shatter Kazuya's EVER winning against Gouki for a number of reasons. I am not because I cannot prove it happened. It would be no different from me using CVS or MVC2 level abilities. Sure the same development teams made those games, but thats not a license to say they can do as depicted if we are using the characters from a pure Street Fighter standpoint, since they have not actually performed those abilities.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
as for endings, i'm not the one who's got his fact all wrong.

And what fact did I get wrong?

Originally posted by FWahMaN
1. Jin and Kazuya's full-powered stomps shattered the building glass, not their missed blows. Missed punches doing that is impossible........even though Jin punched the roof ground prior to the stomping and it didn't shatter much more than a little bit of the ground itself.

Exactly my point....

#1: if they are throwing around glass shattering punches by this point, then every atack they perform would have the same effect. Yet at no other time, either during or after this event happening does this occur. This is also ignoring the general flow of events prior to Tekken 6, it ignores similar attacks on screen, it ignores the most basic principal of physics for it to even work, application of force. Since there is no sonic boom, it is not the force of the punch itself that has done this.

It would have made more sense if someone had said it was done as a powerup, but nope "Itwas da force of teh punch!" was what I got, and thats not correct by any stretch of the imagination.

Originally posted by FWahMaN
2. Akuma crushed an island with his physical strength.

Nemebro made that argument, not me, and if you know your history, you would see that I have actually disputed this, although clearly not for the same reasons as Sado, and definitely using different methods for doing so.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
LOL. his satsui-no-fanboy knows no bounds laughing out loud

Reported for trolling.... You need to STFU now before you get banned a second time.

Originally posted by FWahMaN
Sorry I meant "Akuma crushed/sunk an island which is factually bigger than the Zaibatsu compound and the area surrounding it/shifted the Earth's crust" with his physical strength, even though Ryu's ending does not state Akuma let alone his strength was the cause of the demolition. Only a shit scan of his fist on the ground is shown, but logic would say Akuma was the cause (and fully or mostly due to his strength and not his ki, even though the sprite relevant to the attack involves spreaking ki). Actually, it's a fact as well and I can't prove it. However logic would not say that in Kazuya's T4 ending, Devil caused the area to vanish, nor is this speculated power level on a canon level because Tekken is not on the level of Street Fighter, even though what I said makes no sense and sounds like fanboy rubbish, because, I don't know. It's not fact like Akuma doing push-ups and pushing down the Earth like the online version of Chuck Norris. laughing

Your ignorance only proves that you cannot debate without resorting to snide-assed remarks reguarding a fallacy I never stated.

Seriously, either go blame someone who actually used that in an argument and get the hell off your high horse, or get yourself reported... I don't particularly care which, but using arguments I never made is very bad news, and I will not tolerate bullshit.

No End N Site
Usin' chi is not usin' strength, now? Sounds like no one in this thread knows what chi is. Been watchin' too much anime, huh? Everything you do is powered by chi, like pickin' up a pencil or liftin' weights...rather you want to or not, your usin' chi.

Wait, that's like sayin' your not usin' your mind when you think, your just usin' your brain? LMAO.

Hell Lancer
you have STILL NOT provided any evidence as to why openings are not canon and the only thing you've provided is contradicting BS, a thorough lack of knowledge (Mr-jack-me-jane-at-the-end-of-t1) and general half-assed flaming which is become a staple of your "debating" tactics.
and for reporting trolling, look back at this thread and look at the number of flames you've thrown my way, buddy. compared to that calling you a fanboy AFTER pointing out the holes in your argument. be grateful i have patience for your types wink

you're the one being a troll: you don't know shit and you flame. this isn't even funny now.


i think he meant ki to be honest.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
you have STILL NOT provided any evidence as to why openings are not canon and the only thing you've provided is contradicting BS, a thorough lack of knowledge (Mr-jack-me-jane-at-the-end-of-t1) and general half-assed flaming which is become a staple of your "debating" tactics.
and for reporting trolling, look back at this thread and look at the number of flames you've thrown my way, buddy. compared to that calling you a fanboy AFTER pointing out the holes in your argument. be grateful i have patience for your types wink

I did not know that calling you what you are acting like is a flame.... Meh, reguardless...

Point out to me where I said Jack met Jane at the end of T1 please.... If you red what I said instead of paying attention to the delusions that cloud your judgement, I said they met in T2...

Nothing I have said is contradictory. This is your biggest problem right here, your spouting stuff that either A: I have not said, or B: You've pulled out of your hindquarters in a bullshit attempt to cover yourself and failing miserably at.

Lack of knowlege? Your the one who cannot seem to chain the sequence of events together in any meaningful fashion...

Ok, Let me make this perfectly clear. It is YOUR job to provide evidence for Kazuya. Not mine. If you want to use that feat, you have to justify it's existance, which, as it stands, has nothing to base itself on... You have one scene that is not supported by any chain of events within the Tekken story, You've resorted to attacking phantom myths, flaming, bringing up characters that have nothing to do with the thread, AND attacking a credible feat from Akuma, despite the fact that it IS official, it DID happen within the story, and has been corroborated by at least ONE similar feat.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
you're the one being a troll: you don't know shit and you flame. this isn't even funny now.

Right, I'm the troll despite the fact that I actually have presented credible and confirmed evidence, while your spouting off about a single uncoroborated scene, attacking my level of knowlege, and even lying through your teeth... Not one of the "Attacks" you have used have even been about an argument I've made, Instead you've generalised every streetfighter fanboy into one group, and because I'm debating against you here, you've decided to lump me in and dredging up arguments that are months and even years old... Funny really, considering you've only been here a grand total of 5 months in all... Most of the shit you would have had absolutely NO knowlege of at all...

FWahMaN
Trolling...so saying something similar to what he and the other guy would argue is trolling...I guess that's all they've been doing here then. If that's not what he meant and that's if he even accused, then never mind...I can't see any of their posts as for some reason it hurts my eyes and brain...

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by FWahMaN
Trolling...so saying something similar to what he and the other guy would argue is trolling...I guess that's all they've been doing here then. If that's not what he meant and that's if he even accused, then never mind...I can't see any of their posts as for some reason it hurts my eyes and brain...

No, trolling is continually spouting the same stuff over and over, not providing anything constructive, and flaming relentlessly until A: his opponent quits due to attrition, or B: he gets banned.

Now, I beleive I have made my point PERECTLY clear here, I don't know why it is so difficult for you two to either understand & accept this, or provide me with SOMETHING that explains the event in the story... Seriously, Other than a 5 second cinematic in an opening there is literally nothing to justify the event.... More powerful attacks have done less damage structurally to a building within Tekken itself, by more powerful characters I may add...

FWahMaN
In response to someone's question, apparently not, because when someone in DBZ for instance uses their ki to bust up a city or planet, it is not understood as they used their strength, but their inner ki/chi/whatever as emmitted energy used to eradicate things. Punching the ground regardless of how strong you are will only affect the immediate area being punched, not the entire landmass, especially if this same punch isn't going to eradicate a person on impact and I doubt a certain punch does, and even if this is the case, you can be strong enough to lift 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000.......000,000,000 tons and not be able to demolish Hawaii by punching the ground somewhere. You need a method of spreading whatever energy you have and that's what Akuma's sprite basically shows. I doubt it's a different technique he used, also.

Goku in base form apparently has trouble lifting 40 tons (heard it from Superman supporters in a Goku vs Supes thread) yet this same form could eradicate a planet with ki. Now if someone has the strength to demolish a huge island, think for a moment how much he could actually destroy with ki, although comparing SF with DBZ probably isn't the best thing to do.

Darkstorm Zero
Probably not....

However, I was (And am) An advocate of the energy dispersal argument for that event, it stands to reason that it was more a factor of his ki being focust there at the point of impact and spreading out, rather than the "Incredible Hulk" moment someone thought it was (I forget who, Maybe Nemebro?)

Anyways, it still doesn't detract from the feat itself.

FWahMaN
Bored as hell...they gave Heihachi accessories that awfully make him look like Akuma. Prayer beads, default gi, sandals, sayjin hair and gauntlet gloves. You can even get the right colors........and shave his mustache off to being closer to Akuma in appearance.

Akuma should also take up capoeira.

Kirikaze Fuuma
Originally posted by FWahMaN
Goku in base form apparently has trouble lifting 40 tons (heard it from Superman supporters in a Goku vs Supes thread) yet this same form could eradicate a planet with ki. Now if someone has the strength to demolish a huge island, think for a moment how much he could actually destroy with ki, although comparing SF with DBZ probably isn't the best thing to do.

Goku may only lift 40 tons but striking strength != lifting strength. Goku who only lift 40 tons managed to bruised Frieza with punches and kicks. And Frieza in a very weakened form, battered, and cut in two, survived the planet explosion and I'm talking about Frieza saga Goku. And if lifting strength = punching strength, then Goku won't hurt Frieza who had more than just a planet durability.

and since this is about Kazuya and Akuma, I won't make more DBZ comments anymore. But if you asked me who wins this battle, hard to choose, but I have to say Gouki. Even though Kazuya will give him a good fight.

FWahMaN
They're not quite the same yes but the product is basically mass times speed, when talking about striking power. Something as small as Akuma cannot crush an island with a blow. I highly doubt that is possible physically. He had to have some way of spreading his energy across. This is no different than Goku shooting a ki blast and destroying an area.

No End N Site
Originally posted by Hell Lancer

i think he meant ki to be honest.

Chi, Ki, Qi etc, is all the same. "Chi" is the Chinese way (REAL WAY) of sayin' "Ki".

No End N Site
Originally posted by FWahMaN
In response to someone's question, apparently not, because when someone in DBZ for instance uses their ki to bust up a city or planet, it is not understood as they used their strength, but their inner ki/chi/whatever as emmitted energy used to eradicate things. Punching the ground regardless of how strong you are will only affect the immediate area being punched, not the entire landmass, especially if this same punch isn't going to eradicate a person on impact and I doubt a certain punch does, and even if this is the case, you can be strong enough to lift 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000.......000,000,000 tons and not be able to demolish Hawaii by punching the ground somewhere. You need a method of spreading whatever energy you have and that's what Akuma's sprite basically shows. I doubt it's a different technique he used, also.

Goku in base form apparently has trouble lifting 40 tons (heard it from Superman supporters in a Goku vs Supes thread) yet this same form could eradicate a planet with ki. Now if someone has the strength to demolish a huge island, think for a moment how much he could actually destroy with ki, although comparing SF with DBZ probably isn't the best thing to do.

This is wrong in so many ways and you're right, comparing SF with DBZ probably isn't the best thing to do and not for the reasons you think. Chi is REAL (or at least a real world concept). Usin' DBZ as an example is horrible in every way to describe what Chi is. Nothin' you do in this world can be done with out Chi.

1.Breathing requires chi

2.Opening your eyes requires chi

3.Akuma destroyin' an island with a punch requires Chi, the same way breathing does.

Raw strength IS Chi but Chi is not raw strength. The Incredible Hulk uses Chi to lift tanks and buildings. Raw Strength is powered by Chi just like everything else humans do. Akuma is physically Strong enough to destroy the island because he can adequately/effectively use his chi better than a regular man. There is no such thing as "just raw strength" with out Chi. At least not in the way SF uses it.

Hell Lancer
if we're playing this game then there's lots of words i can call you and justify it as what you are too. only difference is, i don't play those games. grow up, bub erm


my evidence is that all openings since tekken1 have been canonical/have shown feats that are considered canonical. why should T6 be an exception? your proof against this argument is what exactly?


look above.

Hell Lancer
Darkstorm Zero said:

and now we know that not only do you not know much about tekken, you also have a shitty memory stick out tongue

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
if we're playing this game then there's lots of words i can call you and justify it as what you are too. only difference is, i don't play those games. grow up, bub erm

You called me fanboy and idiot first, Don't bother replying if you have nothing to go on besides lame bullshit trolling flames.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
my evidence is that all openings since tekken1 have been canonical/have shown feats that are considered canonical. why should T6 be an exception? your proof against this argument is what exactly?

Umm, exept they have not... Have a look a page up and you'll see that about a third of the events you've taken in as canon, have infact never happened within the storyline, thats MY proof, and I need nothing else untiil you've coroborated yours.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
look above.

Take your own advice.

Hell Lancer
you've already shown how atrocious your memory is. if you want i can prove it for you a second time by showing you who started the flames. oh, and i could always use the "dsz logic" (oxymoron) and say i'm calling you an idiot fanboy because you are one. but i won't, cuz i'm cool wink

as for your proof, post it again. burden of proof's on you. already i had to do all the work and go back 2 pages to find your dumbass Jack/Jane comment.

don't be cruel sad

NemeBro
Gouki punches Kazuya. The glancing force of the blow tears Kazuya in half.

No Tekken character (Unless this changed in 6, which I doubt) has sunk islands, split mountains, or kicked submarines in half while a thousand meters below the surface of the ocean. Kazuya died when thrown in a volcano. Gouki was fighting Gouken inside one.

So yeah.

FWahMaN
Originally posted by NemeBro
Gouki punches Kazuya. The glancing force of the blow tears Kazuya in half.And Kazuya will stand there and take the hit. Why does this sound so similar to Kazuya clean slicing Akuma with a beam in half? Better yet how about not moving to getting disintegrated with sheer force.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No Tekken character (Unless this changed in 6, which I doubt) has sunk islands,Ryu's Alpha 2 ending proves shit if you've been reading the thread. Saying that's proof Akuma did anything besides place his fist on the ground (which is all the ending tells and/or shows us, as nowhere does the narrator say Akuma caused the island's demolition) is also saying Kazuya could wipe the whole Mishima Zaibatsu compound (actually more as per Kazuya's T4 ending) so much as not even a single trace would be left behind, unlike pieces of the island falling in the sea, something that is clearly evident in Ryu's Alpha 2 ending.

Originally posted by NemeBro
split mountains,Feng (who has achieved to power upgrade from scrolls, go check T6 prologue to see how he achieved no power upgrade in Tekken 5) in his T6 ending one-shotted a rock that immensely dwarfed him and was not only residing in a volcano, but was launched at him. I'm pretty sure he can bust a mountain. Don't complain we're using endings. People who get wet at the mention of M. Bison's name bring up Chun Li's Alpha 3 ending, which never happened, to prove he can destroy a city even when it's funny that if anything, it only proves he would fail when attempting so. So because now noncanonical endings are accurate portrayals, then yes, Feng can do something similar to busting a mountain. By the way, Kazuya capable of vanishing Zaibatsu and beyond >>> busting a mountain, as confirmed by T4 ending dialogue verbatim (about Zaibatsu compound and more vanishing), deal with it.


Originally posted by NemeBro
or kicked submarines in half while a thousand meters below the surface of the ocean.As there's hardly any proof that Akuma, or Kazuya, did anything to an island or to an area like the Mishima compound, there is no proof Akuma was "thousands of meters underwater" either. Only fans with erections deny this reality. Some will use logic partially to say Akuma was the cause of so-and-so but when logic doesn't suit them, they appear as you guessed it, fans avoid of intellect.

Discussing logically isn't necessarily the same as proving, however both are fine. However it's painful to see someone say that one thing is logical while another thing isn't, when the other thing has just about the same amount of logic behind it. It's also annoying seeing someone say a thing is factual when it is according to their wishes only.

Logic most likely also says Akuma was deep, sure. Why I've yet to see the submarine feat when it's been brought up for years, I have no idea other than SF arguers prefer complaining than just posting evidence for their claims. I've seen a scan of this feat with Akuma apparently bigger than the submarine itself which is by itself weird, and that's what I could make out of it. Thousands of feet? Depends where he was. In one of the great oceans, sure. Like anyone knows.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Kazuya died when thrown in a volcano. Gouki was fighting Gouken inside one....I believe Kazuya survived being dropped into one a number of times. Nothing confirms he was killed by a drop. Rather his T4 prologue says he's been killed by Heihachi, then dropped into a volcano. Key word is then.

FWahMaN
Edit time passed. I meant to add that the only thing that is confirmed that killed him is Heihachi, and nothing about falling. About the submarine scan which I saw in SF vs MK, I would say Akuma was closer to the viewer and that's why he appears larger than the submarine, had his leg not been apparently through it. It being through it can only mean he is the same distance away from the viewer as the submarine, but I probably mispercieved what the image was trying to show. Who can blame who, it's an SNES-quality game at best.

NemeBro
Originally posted by FWahMaN
And Kazuya will stand there and take the hit. Why does this sound so similar to Kazuya clean slicing Akuma with a beam in half? Better yet how about not moving to getting disintegrated with sheer force.

Ryu's Alpha 2 ending proves shit if you've been reading the thread. Saying that's proof Akuma did anything besides place his fist on the ground (which is all the ending tells and/or shows us, as nowhere does the narrator say Akuma caused the island's demolition) is also saying Kazuya could wipe the whole Mishima Zaibatsu compound (actually more as per Kazuya's T4 ending) so much as not even a single trace would be left behind, unlike pieces of the island falling in the sea, something that is clearly evident in Ryu's Alpha 2 ending.

Feng (who has achieved to power upgrade from scrolls, go check T6 prologue to see how he achieved no power upgrade in Tekken 5) in his T6 ending one-shotted a rock that immensely dwarfed him and was not only residing in a volcano, but was launched at him. I'm pretty sure he can bust a mountain. Don't complain we're using endings. People who get wet at the mention of M. Bison's name bring up Chun Li's Alpha 3 ending, which never happened, to prove he can destroy a city even when it's funny that if anything, it only proves he would fail when attempting so. So because now noncanonical endings are accurate portrayals, then yes, Feng can do something similar to busting a mountain. By the way, Kazuya capable of vanishing Zaibatsu and beyond >>> busting a mountain, as confirmed by T4 ending dialogue verbatim (about Zaibatsu compound and more vanishing), deal with it.


As there's hardly any proof that Akuma, or Kazuya, did anything to an island or to an area like the Mishima compound, there is no proof Akuma was "thousands of meters underwater" either. Only fans with erections deny this reality. Some will use logic partially to say Akuma was the cause of so-and-so but when logic doesn't suit them, they appear as you guessed it, fans avoid of intellect.

Discussing logically isn't necessarily the same as proving, however both are fine. However it's painful to see someone say that one thing is logical while another thing isn't, when the other thing has just about the same amount of logic behind it. It's also annoying seeing someone say a thing is factual when it is according to their wishes only.

Logic most likely also says Akuma was deep, sure. Why I've yet to see the submarine feat when it's been brought up for years, I have no idea other than SF arguers prefer complaining than just posting evidence for their claims. I've seen a scan of this feat with Akuma apparently bigger than the submarine itself which is by itself weird, and that's what I could make out of it. Thousands of feet? Depends where he was. In one of the great oceans, sure. Like anyone knows.

...I believe Kazuya survived being dropped into one a number of times. Nothing confirms he was killed by a drop. Rather his T4 prologue says he's been killed by Heihachi, then dropped into a volcano. Key word is then. 1. Kazuya hasn't proven to be able to react to supersonic speeds. Something which even Abel has shown to do, in a fight with Guile where he blocked his Sonic Boom. Gouki was durable enough to fight inside of a volcanon without being injured by the heat, and fought and took hits from Gouken, who is around his level.

2. So your argument is that Gouki placed his fist upon the ground, and the island just happened to submerge itself afterwards? This notion does not even dignify a response. Ah, the good ol' Kazuya took the Mishima Zaibatsu out of existence argument. We never see what actually happens, so not a viable showing.

3. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha no.

uTDatdIFIgA

That boulder is like 40 feet in diameter, if that. Nowhere near the size of the island Gouki destroyed, or the mountain he split. To even suggest Feng could destroy a mountain based on such laughable evidence is heresy in the eyes of God. Why would I complain we are using endings? Other than instances where a powerup is received they are viable to be used as evidence. That was not even similar to busting a city block, let alone a mountain. Gouki split Ayers rock into four pieces I believe it was, Feng Wei destroyed what is equivelant to the golden globe at universal studios. "Vanishing Zaibatsu?" And how did Kazuya do that? With his super duper reality warping paunch!? One is hyperbole, we actually see the other one.

4. Except we know Gouki punched the ground, and then the island was submerged. It may not take a rocket scientist to figure out what happened, but apparently it takes more than you. Appeared in SF Guide, but the 1,000m thing doesn't really matter, so I don't care enough to prove it.

5. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW go get me a whiney burger and some french cries.

6. Was actually wrong, it was actually a sunken ship, the submarine was destroyed when Gouki kicked it in half. You want to see the feat? Kay.

sawFg3DeTJU

He kicked the ship in half, and the submarine was destroyed or damaged along with it, while kicking it in half, he brought it to the surface with him.

So yeah.

7. Vid please.

NemeBro
Oh also.

Hey hey Streetfighter, keep fighting make the future brighter biatch.

Hell Lancer
the sonicboom doesn't travel faster than sound, the only thing we know is that in order to create it, guile has to move his fists really fast. look at the trailer and you see that its not even that fast once it leaves Guile's fists. stop being a moron erm


the size of the island is unknown, we're also pretty sure he didn't "sink" it. no one's denying its a helluva feat though. we're just saying its being needlessly exaggerated into meaning things its not.
as for Zaibatsu, we already know that DevilJin pwned the entire forest into a barren wasteland. what makes you think that a complete Devil with all his powers cannot wipe out Zaibatsu? of course the ending is noncanon BUT it negates absolutely nothing about the uberness that is Devilgene...besides, we've already been shown what the Devil Gene (at a portion of its power) can do in the next frikkin game.
again: fail

3. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha no.
its bigger than anything ryu's every held, shattered or even stop up to...and yet ryu could match gouki.

why is DEVIL kazuya being written off. either admit that ryu is nothing but PIS-made-flesh or admit that others can do better against him that ryu can (because, you know, they actually have feats). you can't have it both ways....although i'm sure its not the first time you've heard that stick out tongue

i have no problem against the submarine feat. that was impressive shite.

FWahMaN
I had this typed up 2 days ago but the computer froze and I wasn't able to retrieve the post. Since I had more time on it it should be better.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. Kazuya hasn't proven to be able to react to supersonic speeds. Something which even Abel has shown to do, in a fight with Guile where he blocked his Sonic Boom.Sweet. Not sure what this has to do with the match.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gouki was durable enough to fight inside of a volcanon without being injured by the heat, and fought and took hits from Gouken, who is around his level.No proof Kazuya was hurt by heat inside of a volcano. His durability however testifies to the fact his body wasn't affected by heat since he's been taken out of one in one piece. In case I see mentionings of scars, environmental heat does not cause scars (and when we say inside a volcano we obviously mean fighting with nearby magma, not inside magma). Falls or blows do, and the scars have been there since childhood. Childhood durability does not have to be = current durability. Not arguing what is current either.

Originally posted by NemeBro
2. So your argument is that Gouki placed his fist upon the ground, and the island just happened to submerge itself afterwards? This notion does not even dignify a response.My argument is people (fans) don't know squat as to what happened and only conjecture based on a shit-quality scan of the island still in one piece with Akuma's hand on it. Nowhere does the ending show an animation of a sort of the island sinking, breaking apart it two pieces, a million pieces, etc. No one can make a rough estimate of the destruction level caused by Akuma or that he was the full cause of the island's disappearance from where it was, as we do not see what happens to the island. This is 0% different than we not seeing what happens to the Mishima Zaibatsu compound in Kazuya's T4 ending, no matter how loud someone screams/whines about it. I'll give them that Ryu's Alpha 2 ending does give more confirmation however, because of one ultra-low res scan of Akuma punching the ground. This still isn't evidence of details we read from fans like "ACOOMA SHIFTID TEKTONIC [email protected]!!", to name an example.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Ah, the good ol' Kazuya took the Mishima Zaibatsu out of existence argument. We never see what actually happens, so not a viable showing.Neither do SF fans see what happens to the island except in their wet dreams.

Originally posted by NemeBro
3. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha no.

uTDatdIFIgA

That boulder is like 40 feet in diameter, if that. Nowhere near the size of the island Gouki destroyed, or the mountain he split.Not only do you or anyone else for that matter knows the size of the island (since the only picture of it shown has nothing of known size to compare it to) but I never said Feng can replicate Akuma's Ayer's(sp?) rock feat. Maybe he can if Feng's T5 ending is a valid display, but I doubt it since it's based on a fake power on a non-existing scroll.

Originally posted by NemeBro
To even suggest Feng could destroy a mountain based on such laughable evidence is heresy in the eyes of God.Of course, since a mountain must be at least as big as Ayer's rock.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why would I complain we are using endings? Other than instances where a powerup is received they are viable to be used as evidence.Pages have been spent where one SF supporter was arguing Kazuya cannot break building glass because the events in the intro showing it were not confirmed in prologues to be canon (as if they need to have been to be canon) so go talk to him if you'd like. It should be obvious who he is if you read a little back.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That was not even similar to busting a city block, let alone a mountain.I'm sorry, I meant a mountain must at least be as big as a city block.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Gouki split Ayers rock into four pieces I believe it was, Feng Wei destroyed what is equivelant to the golden globe at universal studios.I doubt you calculated roughly the diamater of the object based on what was shown of it when it came in contact with Feng Wei and the size of Feng Wei to make a guess, but I believe it residing in magma speaks a lot of its durabililty and the fact Feng shut off the flames upon impact speaks another thing. If you're comparing this to hitting a rock anyone would find of the same size, lol.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Vanishing Zaibatsu?" And how did Kazuya do that? With his super duper reality warping paunch!?You are apparently ignorant of the devils' ability to release less concentrated energy (so this would not be beams) which would cause something like the fair eradication of a forest (Devil Jin). To wipe out an area like the Mishima Zaibatsu would require the same method, because only two ways the devils can cause destruction are known; the other method is clean-slicing (T6 trailer with Devil Jin, Hwoarang and Lili) and that would probably take years to erase the area piece by piece. The ending said it vanished within the day; only the other method could've been used for this reason alone.

Originally posted by NemeBro
One is hyperbole, we actually see the other one.Yes, Akuma's hand on the ground. Woah.

Originally posted by NemeBro
4. Except we know Gouki punched the ground, and then the island was submerged.That's like saying we see my foot on one of the twin towers in DC. Next image on the slide displays the tower with an already-occurred explosion (meaning we don't see anything about a plane). This then means by placing my foot on the base of the building, a detonation occurred many stories up. Damn my powers are nice. laughing

Originally posted by NemeBro
It may not take a rocket scientist to figure out what happened, but apparently it takes more than you.Oh how I laugh at the lack of intellect displayed from one who thinks a full-powered Devil, who was the only being at the time and relevant place capable of achieving the feat, wasn't the one who did it and/or the Zaibatsu and the area around it vanished by itself laughing. Devil Jin? drained by Kazuya. Jinpachi? Unresurrected. Azazel? Sealed. Who else I wonder, especially since Kazuya is the only one with the goal of crushing Mishima Zaibatsu.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Appeared in SF Guide, but the 1,000m thing doesn't really matter, so I don't care enough to prove it.Chances are there is none, kind of like lack of specifics as to what happened to the island (which is the reason we hear Akuma sunk, destroyed, and/or shifted the Earth's plates). There are actually less visual specifics with the Zaibatsu, but we are told in detail that it vanished without a trace of it left behind.

Originally posted by NemeBro
5. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW go get me a whiney burger and some french cries.What I said was very true. wink

Originally posted by NemeBro
Was actually wrong, it was actually a sunken ship, the submarine was destroyed when Gouki kicked it in half. You want to see the feat? Kay.

sawFg3DeTJUThis is probably the only time or second time this has been shown for evidence for this. Looks like a major ocean as well.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He kicked the ship in half, and the submarine was destroyed or damaged along with it, while kicking it in half, he brought it to the surface with him.

So yeah.The radio cutting off does not imply the submarine was destroyed. It's a logical guess though.

Originally posted by NemeBro
7. Vid please. Actually, it saying he was killed by Heihahi doesn't prove he wasn't killed by the fall, I think, because Heihachi was the one who dropped him. In other words, this doesn't prove your claim nor does it mine.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
as for Zaibatsu, we already know that DevilJin pwned the entire forest into a barren wasteland. what makes you think that a complete Devil with all his powers cannot wipe out Zaibatsu? of course the ending is noncanon BUT it negates absolutely nothing about the uberness that is Devilgene...The non-canon ending is displaying a very canon power. It is Devil with his old powers, meaning both halves. Not saying you didn't know though.

Originally posted by Hell Lancer
besides, we've already been shown what the Devil Gene (at a portion of its power) can do in the next frikkin game.
again: failNo indication the devil gene was used to cause the damage, meaning there are no signs of devil on either Jin or Kazuya besides a tattoo that is always where it is and a permanent red eye on the other person.

He wasn't even talking about Ryu.

FWahMaN
About the Third Stike feat, two things that were mentioned that the video doesn't confirm. One is as said already there's nothing there about the submarine getting destroyed. Giving the benefit of the doubt the speaker who yelped was from the submarine and not the bald guy on the surface, that could've been him surprised of what he was seeing or the submarine shook a bit. Quite vague to say the least. The other thing is Akuma kicking the ship to the surface. Since we do not see what happens below the surface besides him descending, all we can say is he brought the ship to the surface and broke it with one of his attacks. It clearly shows the ship starting to dissemble upon reaching the surface. Had it been broken in four parts 1000m or so deep with the parts spacing away from each other as fast as we see in the ending, they would be much farther from each other by the time they reach the surface, so why is it starting to fly apart when it's near the surface? I don't know, iz just SF.

No End N Site
Does he need to destroy the sub as well as the ship, to win this fight? Lol, standin' in the ocean depths and kickin' a sunken battle ship to the surface is beyond any Tekken character.

Or splittin' Ayers Rock or destroyin' Goukentou or fighting in a volcano...

No End N Site
Also
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/261/365473-ss_preview_6824worldtour2_super.jpg

Gokuentou is the island Akuma destroyed and the island are those 2 little dots below Japan. 'Bout the size of a regular island.

Hell Lancer
yes, because that's world map there is such an accurate depiction.

FWahMaN
Wait, what world map?

Also I should've said this before, though I'm pretty much laughing at the use of endings for Akuma (Third Strike, Second Impact etc.) when we've yet to see proof of their canonicity, yet, someone had the nerve to argue that of T6BR's opening movie. laughing The hilarity.

No End N Site
Originally posted by Hell Lancer
yes, because that's world map there is such an accurate depiction.

It is for SF...

Originally posted by FWahMaN
Wait, what world map?

Also I should've said this before, though I'm pretty much laughing at the use of endings for Akuma (Third Strike, Second Impact etc.) when we've yet to see proof of their canonicity, yet, someone had the nerve to argue that of T6BR's opening movie. laughing The hilarity.

Second Impact's endin is canon cuz he has the move in 3rd Strike and 3rd Strike's endin' is canon cuz he has the the move in Super SFIV, albeit a toned down version.

Classic NES
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Based on what I know, Akuma has greater feats.

That depends on which interpretation of the characters we are using.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by FWahMaN
Wait, what world map?

Also I should've said this before, though I'm pretty much laughing at the use of endings for Akuma (Third Strike, Second Impact etc.) when we've yet to see proof of their canonicity, yet, someone had the nerve to argue that of T6BR's opening movie. laughing The hilarity.

I argued the validity of the images because they do NOT hold sway in the chain of events, IE: they never happened, this is something you two seem to have trouble understanding for some reason....

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