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Loki & Thor Vs Zatanna and Black Adam

T1 6/10

t2 7/10

Gotta go with Team 1, 6/10, on this one.

Gotta go with Team 2, 6/10, on this one.

Team 1, provided Loki isn't acting like a bastard and won't purposefully screw Thor over.

Team 1, pretty hard.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Team 1, makes me pretty hard.

Idk. What can't zatanna do by gnikaeps sdrawkcab

I was never clear on he power limits...

team 1

The brothers. Assuming they can work together.

Team 1 pretty damn hard like Kris said.

Loki would beat either Zatanna or Black Adam. Same goes for Thor.

I'm having a hard time seeing Team 2 winning this in any way at all unless some hard prep is involved for Zatanna.

I don't see how Loki can beat Zatanna

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I don't see how Loki can beat Zatanna
Most of us do.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Most of us do.
You and Rage stated it.
Everyone else either said Team 2 or Team 1

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I don't see how Loki can beat Zatanna

Being more powerful, experienced etc. isn't enough?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Being more powerful, experienced etc. isn't enough? More experienced is a given more powerful i debatable

Originally posted by iceman24567
More experienced is a given more powerful i debatable

Nice quote me with spelling typos at least fix it fatass

No, I do not try and mask idiocy. I expose it

Team Uno 8/10.

Originally posted by iceman24567
More experienced is a given more powerful i debatable

Really? What's her greatest feat? The Sun Eater feat comes to mind but Loki has feats to top that.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? What's her greatest feat? The Sun Eater feat comes to mind but Loki has feats to top that.

What feats does Loki have that puts it above an evolved Sun Eater?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Really? What's her greatest feat? The Sun Eater feat comes to mind but Loki has feats to top that. That actually was greater feat than most realize

Uhhh...cool?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
What feats does Loki have that puts it above an evolved Sun Eater?

I've seen Loki hurt Surtur with the Twilight Sword with his blasts. I've seen him affect Seth with his attacks as well.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Uhhh...cool?



I've seen Loki hurt Surtur with the Twilight Sword with his blasts. I've seen him affect Seth with his attacks as well. None of that is above the sun eater feat though

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Uhhh...cool?



I've seen Loki hurt Surtur with the Twilight Sword with his blasts. I've seen him affect Seth with his attacks as well.

I'd rank Starbreaker above Surtur. Hell, a LESS evolved Sun Eater was eating up countless galaxies like they were candy. Starbreaker is more powerful than that.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I'd rank Starbreaker above Surtur. Hell, a LESS evolved Sun Eater was eating up countless galaxies like they were candy. Starbreaker is more powerful than that.

I'm pretty sure, Sun Eaters eat such large bodies after a time. I.e they drain a Star(s) and move on. I don't recall a Sun Eater ever eating entire Galaxies in moments.

And Surtur destroyed a Galaxy forging a Sword. He was about to destroy the Universe once the Sword was ignited.

Originally posted by iceman24567
None of that is above the sun eater feat though

The Seth feat should be at least. In the same arc he was busting Galaxies, and rocking the fabric of the Multiverse in his fight with Odin.

Starbreaker at that point was beyond anything we have seen from him so far. He just fed on a sun taking a millions of years off its life then he sucked Dharma dry the guy that melded the Mildstone and mainstream Dc universe together

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm pretty sure, Sun Eaters eat such large bodies after a time. I.e they drain a Star(s) and move on. I don't recall a Sun Eater ever eating entire Galaxies in moments.

And Surtur destroyed a Galaxy forging a Sword. He was about to destroy the Universe once the Sword was ignited.

A sun eater's presence was destroying galaxies as they moved on.This was when PC Validus was destroyed a good chunk of a Sun Eater. They can consume universes.

Plus Zatanna didn't just hurt him she KOED him. Like i said more powerful debatable

Also, Starbreaker is powerful enough to destroy a universe as well.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
A sun eater's presence was destroying galaxies as they moved on.This was when PC Validus was destroyed a good chunk of a Sun Eater. They can consume universes.

Was this the Legion arc with the Anti-Matter bomb?

I don't recall that. I recall it threatening the Milky Way Galaxy by consuming the Sun or something of the sort but not anything in relation to Galaxies.

Never seen it stated that they can consume Universes either. At least not all together. Systematically after a while, I could see it though.

And Pre-Crisis? Eh, it's Starbreaker his a Pre-Crisis character so I'm not even going down that road.

Destroying a universe? I don't know, but yeah he is close

Originally posted by iceman24567
Plus Zatanna didn't just hurt him she KOED him. Like i said more powerful debatable

Knock him out? Pretty sure she knocked him down.

And didn't in the same story line, a cave in slow him down?

Yea....

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Destroying a universe? I don't know, but yeah he is close

In the last Rann/Thanagarian arc, Starbreaker easily was a universal threat. During Infinite Crisis.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Starbreaker at that point was beyond anything we have seen from him so far. He just fed on a sun taking a millions of years off its life then he sucked Dharma dry the guy that melded the Mildstone and mainstream Dc universe together

The Sun thing isn't impressive.

Eh, he drained his blood. Which is impressive but to an extent. At least I think. Justice League #33 right? Be right back. I'm gonna go re-read it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Knock him out? Pretty sure she knocked him down.

And didn't in the same story line, a cave in slow him down?

Yea.... She koed him then they dropped a cave on him yea.....

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Was this the Legion arc with the Anti-Matter bomb?

I don't recall that. I recall it threatening the Milky Way Galaxy by consuming the Sun or something of the sort but not anything in relation to Galaxies.

Never seen it stated that they can consume Universes either. At least not all together. Systematically after a while, I could see it though.

And Pre-Crisis? Eh, it's Starbreaker his a Pre-Crisis character so I'm not even going down that road.

It was the MOST powerful Sun Eater the Legion had seen. Because it just consumed many galaxies. I don't think a number was given.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The Sun thing isn't impressive.

Eh, he drained his blood. Which is impressive but to an extent. At least I think. Justice League #33 right? Be right back. I'm gonna go re-read it. Oh god the sun thing was to show he just consumed a butt load of energy was it Vega? not so sure anyways after that he drained Dharmas blood/life force Icon commented on how powerful Dharma was. Draining him is a feat but being able to drain him is bigger unless Icon was spitting hyperbole. Draining all that energy and life force then showing his greatest form = to me that he was at optimal power levels.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Starbreaker at that point was beyond anything we have seen from him so far. He just fed on a sun taking a millions of years off its life then he sucked Dharma dry the guy that melded the Mildstone and mainstream Dc universe together
On the flip-side, Joker has slit Zatanna's throat and she's been punked by Deathstroke. Where Zatanna goes from "jobbing" with her human durability and having a couple of high feats about, Loki steadily lies in the top of the herald tier.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
On the flip-side, Joker has slit Zatanna's throat and she's been punked by Deathstroke. Where Zatanna goes from "jobbing" with her human durability and having a couple of high feats about, Loki steadily lies in the top of the herald tier. tcetorp

The brothers Asgard.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
It was the MOST powerful Sun Eater the Legion had seen. Because it just consumed many galaxies. I don't think a number was given.

Never recall Galaxies being stated. If it was it must have been meant systematically. I'd remember something as impressive as consuming entire Galaxies whole. I know it threatened the Milky Way Galaxy but that was it.

Where's Galan when you need him?

Originally posted by iceman24567
She koed him then they dropped a cave on him yea.....

Nah. She hurt him but he wasn't knocked out. He even talked. It was the cave in that slowed him down or even temporarily knocked him out (Haven't re-read it yet. Still looking for the issues.). One of the reasons that make the feat not as impressive as it should be in my opinion. Not different from the Molecule Man vs. Sentry event. Classic and Current vary. Even retelling of Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis beings won't be as powerful as their Pre-Crisis counterparts.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Never recall Galaxies being stated. If it was it must have been meant systematically. I'd remember something as impressive as consuming entire Galaxies whole. I know it threatened the Milky Way Galaxy but that was it.

Where's Galan when you need him?



Nah. She hurt him but he wasn't knocked out. He even talked. It was the cave in that slowed him down or even temporarily knocked him out (Haven't re-read it yet. Still looking for the issues.). One of the reasons that make the feat not as impressive as it should be in my opinion. Not different from the Molecule Man vs. Sentry event. Classic and Current vary. Even retelling of Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis beings won't be as powerful as their Pre-Crisis counterparts.

I believe Galan stated it was galaxies as well. I'll try digging up the scans. Anyway, it's a high end Zatanna feat.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
On the flip-side, Joker has slit Zatanna's throat and she's been punked by Deathstroke. Where Zatanna goes from "jobbing" with her human durability and having a couple of high feats about, Loki steadily lies in the top of the herald tier. Their is no flip side when i debate its either my side or no side. Which side do you choose? Cookie for anybody that knows where i got that quote from.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Oh god the sun thing was to show he just consumed a butt load of energy was it Vega? not so sure anyways after that he drained Dharmas blood/life force Icon commented on how powerful Dharma was. Draining him is a feat but being able to drain him is bigger unless Icon was spitting hyperbole. Draining all that energy and life force then showing his greatest form = to me that he was at optimal power levels.

I think it was Vega.

According to Icon, Dharma's powers allowed to hold them in check. I.e not over lapping. At least that's what I recall. I found #33. Looking for #34.

He didn't drain all of it. Not even close as I recall. I'm pretty sure the entire way, the Justice League was walking in knee deep pools of Dharma's blood.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
tcetorp
She can't use spells instantly? lol.

Nah he didn't drain all of his life force he was still alive and no Dharma did merge the two universes and he kept them in check.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I believe Galan stated it was galaxies as well. I'll try digging up the scans. Anyway, it's a high end Zatanna feat.

Well, it's been a while but I don't recall it being stated that the Sun Eater was consuming entire Galaxies at once or anything like that. But it's Pre-Crisis so I can easily see that.

I could dig up the issues, but it'd be a ****ing pain.

That brings up, a point Kris brought up. It's a high end. Probably her highest. Far from the average.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Nah he didn't drain all of his life force he was still alive and no Dharma did merge the two universes and he kept them in check.

I thought he kept them in balance with his power set. I.e they were kept in synch and didn't over lap or some crap.

Anyways, I gotta go take a shower. Be back later.

Don't come back unless you bring scans to disprove my points

T1

T1 7/10

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
On the flip-side, Joker has slit Zatanna's throat and she's been punked by Deathstroke. Where Zatanna goes from "jobbing" with her human durability and having a couple of high feats about, Loki steadily lies in the top of the herald tier.

Joker is a Monster with Prep. For that feat The Joker pooled several years of prep to create the 1 opportunity necessary to slip past Batman and Zatanna's combined Defenses.

Without Batman Joker couldn't have pulled of that feat even with a hundred lifetimes of prep.

What Made it Possible for Joker was his in depth knowledge of Batman His Arch-Nemesis And his underworld contacts with Dr Light.

In the Aftermath of the mindraping incident in Space Batman Asked Zatanna to stay out of his business and Shut Down her Magic powers In his presence and on entering Gotham City Limits if she ever wanted to regain his trust.

After The Joker Incident Batman realised his paranoia in asking her to depower before a fight put her in danger. He apologised, and they reconciled their differences.

Dini's Trust Saga Ran in Detective circa 835





Team 2 Stomp.

Team 1.

Loki>>>>>Zatanna.
Thor>>>Black Adam.

Adam forcibly merges Thor and Loki into one being, and then tears it in half.

He then rips off Zatanna's face.

Sounds about right. Either one of Team II should solo.

I really don't see Loki as potent as Zatanna. Remember, she can say something like protect us. BA then also gets the protection, and stuff like that. All things considered, she is a better partner then Loki

Did somebody say Loki beats Black Adam.. what is this based on? I believe BA to be loki's superior.

Yup

Originally posted by shiv

Wow, you sure got me there. Zatanna lowered her defenses, perfectly reasonable excuse for making your throat shot and almost being drowned. Definitely something that would've happened to Loki, right? He would've died if he had lowered something of his magical defenses. He would've been caught off guard by a street leveller, whose "amazing" prep resulted in catching them with their defenses down. Taking advantage of Batman's paranoia, real high class stuff, nobody who's been his enemy for decades could've pulled that one off. And it's not like they mentioned her lowering any defenses, Batman just stated that he wanted to do it his way

It's so ridiculously easy to incapacitate her.

Originally posted by shiv
Sounds about right. Either one of Team II should solo.

I'm curious Kris... How do you figure Loki beats BA?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Wow, you sure got me there. Zatanna lowered her defenses, perfectly reasonable excuse for making your throat shot and almost being drowned. Definitely something that would've happened to Loki, right? He would've died if he had lowered something of his magical defenses. He would've been caught off guard by a street leveller, whose "amazing" prep resulted in catching them with their defenses down. Taking advantage of Batman's paranoia, real high class stuff, nobody who's been his enemy for decades could've pulled that one off. And it's not like they mentioned her lowering any defenses, Batman just stated that he wanted to do it his way

It's so ridiculously easy to incapacitate her.

Don't try to diminish what happened. The title of the whole frikkin Saga is Trust.

the story drives home the truth of trust.

To obtain trust one has to prove themselves to be trust-worthy .

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I really don't see Loki as potent as Zatanna. Remember, she can say something like protect us. BA then also gets the protection, and stuff like that. All things considered, she is a better partner then Loki

And all Loki has to do is wave his hand and he has defenses up so great that Seth had to tap into his infinite well of power while already inside of his realm, in hopes that he will gradually wear down Loki's defenses. And as I recall, this was right after his rebirth/awakening.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And all Loki has to do is wave his hand and he has defenses up so great that Seth had to tap into his infinite well of power while already inside of his realm, in hopes that he will gradually wear down Loki's defenses. And as I recall, this was right after his rebirth/awakening.

evomer dleihs

!thgir nmaD

Originally posted by xJLxKing
evomer dleihs

funny, that didn't work in Obsidian age

Yes, it would

Was that after her upgrade?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
evomer dleihs With things like this, you'd think that Zatanna would have to think about what to say, how to pronounce it, and then finally say it...

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Yes, it would

well she clearly stated that it was much more complicated than to actually speak her wish and come true

put we have seen her do it

Originally posted by xJLxKing
put we have seen her do it

we have seen her failing too. it depends on the opponent I guess

When has she failed to cast the spell because of limitation?
I can't recall any.

She can also put hex on her opponent

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Did somebody say Loki beats Black Adam.. what is this based on? I believe BA to be loki's superior.

Yes. Why do you believe Black Adam is superior to Loki?

A flying brick, who gains his power from magical resources against a being where physical damage is next to useless outside of a low showing here and there and if you're not Thor. Plus he can turn intangible, shape shift etc.

And being magically resistant doesn't mean shit. Loki, one shotted Beta Ray Bill I believe and turned Bor to snow, someone definitely above Top Tier to nothing and remade him just as easily recently.

Loki is ridiculously powerful. I really have a hard time seeing how Black Adam beats him. Especially since physically speaking Loki has shown Top Tier level stats at times.

I wouldn't be surprised if Loki doesn't just drain Black Adam of his magic and add it to his own, ala Mangog.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
When has she failed to cast the spell because of limitation?
I can't recall any.

She can also put hex on her opponent

what I'm saying is that her power can produce almost any kind of effect but to say that her every word becomes instant reality would make her godlike which she isn't.

as I said in obsidian age saga she said she couldn't reverse Gamnenae's spell by speaking backwards because it wasn't that simple.

She can give Loki a battle, no argue about that but something like "htob eid" is going to happen

Originally posted by xJLxKing
evomer dleihs

And Loki raises them right back up again, even assuming she can bring them down in the first place, when beings like Seth lack the raw power to do so easily.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And Loki raises them right back up again, even assuming she can bring them down in the first place, when beings like Seth lack the raw power to do so easily.
Tell that to Starbreaker

Originally posted by xJLxKing
When has she failed to cast the spell because of limitation?
I can't recall any.

She can also put hex on her opponent

Multiple times I've seen her unable to perform something because of limitations. One off the top of my had though is in the issue before the Starbreaker fight. She was unable to teleport the Justice League where Doctor Light was stuck.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Tell that to Starbreaker

Tell Starbreaker what? She hurt him. Props to Zatanna, no one ever said she was weak. But keep in mind that in the same issue a cave in slowed him down.....

He was KOed

Nah he was knocked down i made the same mistake

How do you know? The next time we see Superman, they are in an entirely new place

because i have the comic

Me too

And i know how to read

Originally posted by iceman24567
And i know how to read

I know how to comprehend what I read -_-

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He was KOed

What? She knocks him down, and literally like two panels after, he says, "You hurt me.". He was not knocked out. That much was pretty damn clear.

zattanna is way more uber than many think


team 2 FTM

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I know how to comprehend what I read -_- But you can't read... so all you're comprehending is stuff you made up in your mind.

Originally posted by namorsubby
zattanna is way more uber than many think


team 2 FTM

funny I was thinking the same for Loki...
way underated IMO

Originally posted by Blanket
But you can't read... so all you're comprehending is stuff you made up in your mind. Damn you

Team 2 is underpowered IMO, Zee basically has to fight for herself and for that guy who is flying brick.
That is if CIS is off for Thor and he's not in drunken viking brawler mode, where Black Adam can have it his way. That's assuming there's no one-sided prep for Zee.

why would zatana have prep while the others not?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
On the flip-side, Joker has slit Zatanna's throat and she's been punked by Deathstroke. Where Zatanna goes from "jobbing" with her human durability and having a couple of high feats about, Loki steadily lies in the top of the herald tier.

That stuff happens...when they had to establish Zatanna as Bruce Wayne's childhood sweetheart, low showings to highest profile Batman villains were inevitable. Joker just HAD to try to screw with her.

Originally posted by Warlord
why would zatana have prep while the others not?


That's my point... unless that rather unlikely thing happens, Zee is going to lose. She's unlucky there to have pure brick for partner.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes. Why do you believe Black Adam is superior to Loki?

A flying brick, who gains his power from magical resources against a being where physical damage is next to useless outside of a low showing here and there and if you're not Thor. Plus he can turn intangible, shape shift etc.

And being magically resistant doesn't mean shit. Loki, one shotted Beta Ray Bill I believe and turned Bor to snow, someone definitely above Top Tier to nothing and remade him just as easily recently.

Loki is ridiculously powerful. I really have a hard time seeing how Black Adam beats him. Especially since physically speaking Loki has shown Top Tier level stats at times.

I wouldn't be surprised if Loki doesn't just drain Black Adam of his magic and add it to his own, ala Mangog.

In the Marvel family (including Adam), magical resistance is everything. Billy took a huge blast from 5-D magic and Spectre. And, he also resisted the weapon, Spear of Destiny on one occasion, which is above Loki, IMO.

Adam once weakened SHAZAM in one of his origins as well. Adam is often stated to be Billy's equal when it comes to durability and overall stats.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
In the Marvel family (including Adam), magical resistance is everything. Billy took a huge blast from 5-D magic and Spectre. And, he also resisted the weapon, Spear of Destiny on one occasion, which is above Loki, IMO.

Adam once weakened SHAZAM in one of his origins as well. Adam is often stated to be Billy's equal when it comes to durability and overall stats.

And there goes Thor's versatility, it seems... I was of lower opinion of Black Adam...but there it seems he can try and provoke Thor into H2H combat, where the god of thunder was beaten by Hulk not once but many times.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
And there goes Thor's versatility, it seems... I was of lower opinion of Black Adam...but there it seems he can try and provoke Thor into H2H combat, where the god of thunder was beaten by Hulk not once but many times.

many times?

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
And there goes Thor's versatility, it seems... I was of lower opinion of Black Adam...but there it seems he can try and provoke Thor into H2H combat, where the god of thunder was beaten by Hulk not once but many times. When has Hulk beaten Thor before?