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Can he come out on top?

Hercules
Classic Sasquatch
Classic Abomination
Wendigo(Paul Cartier)
Classic Wonder Man
Current Thing
Ultimate Thing
Colossus(616)
Ultimate Colossus
Ultimate Thor
Ulik
Ares/Marvel
Atlas
Vision
Rulk
Namor

Not Superman. Rulk alone would take everything Superman has.

If it's not Loebforce Rulk then yes, Speed + fly ftw.

Originally posted by golem370
Not Superman. Rulk alone would take everything Superman has. You really think so?

srs thread?

Yes

Superman takes the majority. Most of his opponents are grounded with only about 4 actually able to take to the air and engage him. If he can take them down, flight + heat vision + ice breath + speed blitz takes care of the rest.

Now if Superman couldn't fly, it'd be more of a match, imo.

a dive bomb or an intense blast of heat vision would take out a lot of them, then if he fights wisely he can do it.

I truly don't understand why flight would be a major factor. If his opponent/s stay on the ground why would he take to the air? He's fought people who can't fly entire battle's grounded!

Originally posted by BattleMage
I truly don't understand why flight would be a major factor. If his opponent/s stay on the ground why would he take to the air? He's fought people who can't fly entire battle's grounded! one on one is different than one on sixteen

Originally posted by BattleMage
I truly don't understand why flight would be a major factor. If his opponent/s stay on the ground why would he take to the air? He's fought people who can't fly entire battle's grounded!

That's a big group of ground based people, you don't have to be a genius to figure out that it wold be better to take it into the air at the beginning.

Team should take it. Classic Wonderman alone would put up a good fight before he got beat, throw in guys like Herc and Rulk and Supes doesn't really stand a chance IMO.

Originally posted by BattleMage
I truly don't understand why flight would be a major factor. If his opponent/s stay on the ground why would he take to the air? He's fought people who can't fly entire battle's grounded!

PIS or CIS, take your pick. Besides comic fights are different than forum fights.

If the fliers can somehow grab a hold of Supes and keep him grounded, they stand a decent enough chance. But as it stands, unless they're all operating on the same wave length and have a sound strategy in mind, they're likely to be KOed one by one from superior speed and mobility tactics.

Superman wins. Most of them will die by Heat Vision. Other will be killed by a blitz. Those that survive still need to find a way to either fly or hit him

They aren't winning
Superman wins

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If the fliers can somehow grab a hold of Supes and keep him grounded, they stand a decent enough chance. But as it stands, unless they're all operating on the same wave length and have a sound strategy in mind, they're likely to be KOed one by one from superior speed and mobility tactics.
Yeah but several of these guys were on the Avengers together, I don't think team work will be too big of an issue.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Team should take it. Classic Wonderman alone would put up a good fight before he got beat, throw in guys like Herc and Rulk and Supes doesn't really stand a chance IMO.

http://prozacville.com/myspace/images/biggrecheese-batman-vs-superman.gif
*Replace Batman and the fanboy with the non-flying bricks in this fight.

Again, most of the group is going to be pitifully impotent as soon as Superman takes to the air.

Originally posted by TheKahn
http://prozacville.com/myspace/images/biggrecheese-batman-vs-superman.gif
*Replace Batman and the fanboy with the non-flying bricks in this fight.

Again, most of the group is going to be pitifully impotent as soon as Superman takes to the air.
Most yes, but not all. Depending on just how "classic" BM was talking about Wonder Man may have his jets, Vision can kinda fly and will likely be intagible, Atlas can fly, Namor can fly(not that he much chance of actually hurting Supes), and all of them have the option of doing things like throwing pieces of the battlefield at Supes. And while none of the is as fast as Supes, many have sufficient reflexes to tag him good at least once if they work as a team. Once he's off balance, there's more than enough strength on the field to put him down. And that's not even taking into consideratio Rulk's ability to absorb energy if he manages to get his hands on him and Thor's magical attacks.

Wendigo Hercules Namor Atlas & Wonder Man would take alot of Superman endurance

Originally posted by darthgoober
Most yes, but not all. Depending on just how "classic" BM was talking about Wonder Man may have his jets, Vision can kinda fly and will likely be intagible, Atlas can fly, Namor can fly(not that he much chance of actually hurting Supes), and all of them have the option of doing things like throwing pieces of the battlefield at Supes. And while none of the is as fast as Supes, many have sufficient reflexes to tag him good at least once if they work as a team. Once he's off balance, there's more than enough strength on the field to put him down. And that's not even taking into consideratio Rulk's ability to absorb energy if he manages to get his hands on him and Thor's magical attacks. Great posting. Your opinion is appreciated.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Superman takes the majority. Most of his opponents are grounded with only about 4 actually able to take to the air and engage him. If he can take them down, flight + heat vision + ice breath + speed blitz takes care of the rest.

Now if Superman couldn't fly, it'd be more of a match, imo. Are you kidding me? This is a stomp. Supes dies every single time, horribly.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Are you kidding me? This is a stomp. Supes dies every single time, horribly.

Please elaborate.

Originally posted by BattleMage
Can he come out on top?

Hercules
Classic Sasquatch
Classic Abomination
Wendigo(Paul Cartier)
Classic Wonder Man
Current Thing
Ultimate Thing
Colossus(616)
Ultimate Colossus
Ultimate Thor
Ulik
Ares/Marvel
Atlas
Vision
Rulk
Namor Classic Abom, Rulk, Namor, and Atlas are more then enough to keep Superman busy while the rest just make it a simple numbers/overwhelming game.

You also have Ulik and Hercules who aren't to be underestimated here. These two alone have shown to be a lot more formidable than say Kalibak and Mantis. I mean Superman himself is hard pressed to gain an advantage on Marvel or Orion yet he beats this super team while the Rulk's highest showings have him beating cosmic characters to death with a few punches.

This team beats him down and quite easily too I might add.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Classic Abom, Rulk, Namor, and Atlas are more then enough to keep Superman busy while the rest just make it a simple numbers/overwhelming game.

You also have Ulik and Hercules who aren't to be underestimated here. These two alone have shown to be a lot more formidable than say Kalibak and Mantis. I mean Superman himself is hard pressed to gain an advantage on Marvel or Orion yet he beats this super team while the Rulk's highest showings have him beating cosmic characters to death with a few punches.

This team beats him down and quite easily too I might add.

Let me add to this, Rulk solos.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Classic Abom, Rulk, Namor, and Atlas are more then enough to keep Superman busy while the rest just make it a simple numbers/overwhelming game.

You also have Ulik and Hercules who aren't to be underestimated here. These two alone have shown to be a lot more formidable than say Kalibak and Mantis. I mean Superman himself is hard pressed to gain an advantage on Marvel or Orion yet he beats this super team while the Rulk's highest showings have him beating cosmic characters to death with a few punches.

This team beats him down and quite easily too I might add.

That's assuming Superman stays on the ground and fails to take advantage of his flight, speed, and range attack advantages. I don't understand why he would do that sans PIS or CIS.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Team should take it. Classic Wonderman alone would put up a good fight before he got beat, throw in guys like Herc and Rulk and Supes doesn't really stand a chance IMO.

This is what I always thought. I think Superman could beat Wonderman but I always thought of Wonderman as a challenge to Supes, a GOOD challenge.

Just look at his showings against Thor, Hyperion, etc....

Originally posted by TheKahn
That's assuming Superman stays on the ground and fails to take advantage of his flight, speed, and range attack advantages. I don't understand why he would do that sans PIS or CIS.

Kahn, just look at the people that he is facing and think about what you are saying. Some of these people have feats that make them>Despero and Konvikt.

Originally posted by TheKahn
That's assuming Superman stays on the ground and fails to take advantage of his flight, speed, and range attack advantages. I don't understand why he would do that sans PIS or CIS. It's simple this isn't cbr. Supes,Glads' speed doesn't make them unbeatable or untouchable despite what you might think. On cbr only the highest feats matter so I guess if you can't fly anywhere near 100 times the speed of light then Glads is making you feel like a statue and they write off all fights that he doesn't fight at these speeds and with planet busting strength.

Supes usually don't rely on his speed and tends to slug it out but even if he does use his speed he gets hit and often.

I love Glads but I know for Da** sure he isnt taking out this team, especially with people like rulk on it.

Originally posted by TheKahn
http://prozacville.com/myspace/images/biggrecheese-batman-vs-superman.gif
*Replace Batman and the fanboy with the non-flying bricks in this fight.

Again, most of the group is going to be pitifully impotent as soon as Superman takes to the air.


yeah but a couple of the fliers should be able to subdue him for a short time in order for the non flyers to pounce no?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman wins. Most of them will die by Heat Vision. Other will be killed by a blitz. Those that survive still need to find a way to either fly or hit him

They aren't winning
Superman wins

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman wins. Most of them will die by Heat Vision. Other will be killed by a blitz. Those that survive still need to find a way to either fly or hit him

They aren't winning
Superman wins Wh is he killing with hv? What are the others doing standing in line waiting for him to blast or attack them? Seriously, I cannot believe I missed this but Rulk, Herc, Ulik, or classic Abom alone would present a big problem while you add numbers all around them and it turns into a one sided there's too many characters for me to beat kinda things.

Thor is the only one who can give Supes a good fight.

Originally posted by shokosugi
Thor is the only one who can give Supes a good fight. Why can't Rulk?

Originally posted by BattleMage
Can he come out on top?

Hercules
Classic Sasquatch
Classic Abomination
Wendigo(Paul Cartier)
Classic Wonder Man
Current Thing
Ultimate Thing
Colossus(616)
Ultimate Colossus
Ultimate Thor
Ulik
Ares/Marvel
Atlas
Vision
Rulk
Namor

Within the first nanosecond, Superman bfrs Herc, Sasquatch, Abom, Thing, both Colossus', Ulik, Wendigo, Rulk, Ares, and Wonder Man (after destroying jet pack first though). In the second nanosecond, Superman one-shots Vision and two-shots Ultimate Thor. After that he takes his slow time with Namor. Another example of how Speed kills!

Originally posted by h1a8
Within the first nanosecond, Superman bfrs Herc, Sasquatch, Abom, Thing, both Colossus', Ulik, Wendigo, Rulk, Ares, and Wonder Man (after destroying jet pack first though). In the second nanosecond, Superman one-shots Vision and two-shots Ultimate Thor. After that he takes his slow time with Namor. Another example of how Speed kills! Give me a few examples of what you are basing this nanosecond decimation of his opponents, please.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why can't Rulk?

flight, heat vision, speed blitz

Originally posted by h1a8
Within the first nanosecond, Superman bfrs Herc, Sasquatch, Abom, Thing, both Colossus', Ulik, Wendigo, Rulk, Ares, and Wonder Man (after destroying jet pack first though). In the second nanosecond, Superman one-shots Vision and two-shots Ultimate Thor. After that he takes his slow time with Namor. Another example of how Speed kills!

Originally posted by shokosugi
flight, heat vision, speed blitz And? Hv isn't doing a damn thing here and Rulk has the goods to break him with a few blows. DD couldn't fly and he was able to damage Superman who was trying to avoid him. These battles aren't about who you want to win they are about who wins in a fight from a non bias approach.

Originally posted by quanchi112
And? Hv isn't doing a damn thing here and Rulk has the goods to break him with a few blows. DD couldn't fly and he was able to damage Superman who was trying to avoid him. These battles aren't about who you want to win they are about who wins in a fight from a non bias approach.

DD >> Rulk

How does it take superman longer to beat Ultimate Thor than it does Ultimate Colossus? Ultimate Colossus was whooping Thor's ass for about 10 minutes straight.

^If you read my post carefully you will see I said he bfrs Colossus. Thor can't be BFR thus it would take longer to beat him.

Originally posted by h1a8
Within the first nanosecond, Superman bfrs Herc, Sasquatch, Abom, Thing, both Colossus', Ulik, Wendigo, Rulk, Ares, and Wonder Man (after destroying jet pack first though). In the second nanosecond, Superman one-shots Vision and two-shots Ultimate Thor. After that he takes his slow time with Namor. Another example of how Speed kills!

Show me him fighting at these speeds. I want to see it say nano seconds.

Originally posted by carver9
Show me him fighting at these speeds. I want to see it say nano seconds.

If one moves faster than light then it would take nanoseconds or less to indeed to operate those attacks.

As soon as someone gets a hold of his cape its over. Ever see the Increadibles?

Superman

Superman via counter vibrations and T-Vo

Originally posted by h1a8
If one moves faster than light then it would take nanoseconds or less to indeed to operate those attacks.

Show me him moving at the speed of light without using space flight. If you want you can also use Martian Manhunter if you dont want to debate Superman. I just want to see this nanosecond fighting.

I like Supes but honestly, he can't win this one.

Originally posted by carver9
Show me him moving at the speed of light without using space flight. If you want you can also use Martian Manhunter if you dont want to debate Superman. I just want to see this nanosecond fighting.

I posted a scan of him blitzing someone faster than his HV can move.
Remember?

Can Superman win if he fights smart? Definitely. He's strong enough and fast enough to completely wipe the floor with this bunch.

The problem is his tendency to get in to a fist fight, especially against people he's never fought before.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I like Supes but honestly, he can't win this one.

With the stategy I named Superman wins 10/10. But if Superman fights as if he typically does in the comic then he may lose.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Can Superman win if he fights smart? Definitely. He's strong enough and fast enough to completely wipe the floor with this bunch.

The problem is his tendency to get in to a fist fight, especially against people he's never fought before.

I agree with this, through bfr, he wins, anything besides that, the fight wont even last one panel.

Originally posted by h1a8
I posted a scan of him blitzing someone faster than his HV can move.
Remember?

His heat vision doesnt go anywhere CLOSE to the speed of light. Where did you get that from?

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with this, through bfr, he wins, anything besides that, the fight wont even last one panel.

i never said BFR would be how he wins.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i never said BFR would be how he wins.

Then how does he win?

Originally posted by carver9
His heat vision doesnt go anywhere CLOSE to the speed of light. Where did you get that from?

rofl what a maroon

Originally posted by carver9
Then how does he win?

speedblitz/hv/cold breath combo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
speedblitz/hv/cold breath combo.

that's how i envision him winning. though he has to make 0 mistakes to do it

Originally posted by carver9
His heat vision doesnt go anywhere CLOSE to the speed of light. Where did you get that from?

His HV was shown to go to the moon from earth within a few seconds. I'm pretty sure that is light speed or close.

Superman
Most might think the team because of the sheer numbers, but most of the team is practically worthless

Originally posted by shokosugi
DD >> Rulk I dunno about that one. I could see it going either way tbh.

who ever says supes wins must really love the character....wow he really has no chance in hell here

Originally posted by -Pr-
Can Superman win if he fights smart? Definitely. He's strong enough and fast enough to completely wipe the floor with this bunch.

The problem is his tendency to get in to a fist fight, especially against people he's never fought before.


Superman can't compare to all of these guys in strength Rulk would a close or an even rivalry

Originally posted by golem370
Superman can't compare to all of these guys in strength Rulk would a close or an even rivalry

I think Rulk is stronger by a pretty good gap if you ask me.

Originally posted by -Pr-
speedblitz/hv/cold breath combo.

Half of the people in this battle would tank and probably laugh at his heat vision. I also dont think that it'll be safe to heat vision rulk since it could basically power him up to levels where Superman wouldnt even stand a chance. Cold breath, thats not doing anything to at least 90% of the people here.

I cant believe you are saying that Superman is winning this when he has had problems with people like Kalibak and Mantis. Hell, they even koed him ending with Orion saving his life.

Originally posted by bbrem123
who ever says supes wins must really love the character....wow he really has no chance in hell here

Hercules- Will not tank
Classic Sasquatch- may not tank
Classic Abomination- Will not Tank
Wendigo(Paul Cartier)- Will Not Tank
Classic Wonder Man- Will not tank
Current Thing- May not tank
Ultimate Thing- same as the last one
Colossus(616)- more then likely will not tank
Ultimate Colossus- same as above
Ultimate Thor- Not sure
Ulik- Not Sure
Ares/Marvel- Not Sure
Atlas- Not Sure
Vision- Don't think so
Rulk- will be fine
Namor- will tank

Originally posted by golem370
Hercules- Will not tank
Classic Sasquatch- may not tank
Classic Abomination- Will not Tank
Wendigo(Paul Cartier)- Will Not Tank
Classic Wonder Man- Will not tank
Current Thing- May not tank
Ultimate Thing- same as the last one
Colossus(616)- more then likely will not tank
Ultimate Colossus- same as above
Ultimate Thor- Not sure
Ulik- Not Sure
Ares/Marvel- Not Sure
Atlas- Not Sure
Vision- Don't think so
Rulk- will be fine
Namor- will tank

Will tank what? If you are talking about heat vision, then you are wrong. Majority on that list can tank it. By the way, you got wonderman as someone that cant tank it but he was flown into the sun by hyperion and the sun exploded while he passed through it. He can tank that blast without a problem.

sorry I thought Tank meant couldn't take it

Supes still stomps.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Supes still stomps.

The same people daily.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Supes still stomps. Not a chance.

Originally posted by carver9
Will tank what? If you are talking about heat vision, then you are wrong. Majority on that list can tank it. By the way, you got wonderman as someone that cant tank it but he was flown into the sun by hyperion and the sun exploded while he passed through it. He can tank that blast without a problem.

Superman's hv has been tested to be hotter than the core of stars themselves. His unyielding hv is no joke.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman's hv has been tested to be hotter than the core of stars themselves. His unyielding hv is no joke. So has Gladiator's yet it doesn't just kill whoever it hits.

Originally posted by bbrem123
who ever says supes wins must really love the character....wow he really has no chance in hell here

The vast majority of these beings can't even fly. Superman can bfr each one if he wants. Plus the ones who can't fly really have no way of hitting him if he chooses to remain airborne. Also the vast majority would be statues to Superman as well.

Originally posted by h1a8
The vast majority of these beings can't even fly. Superman can bfr each one if he wants. Plus the ones who can't fly really have no way of hitting him if he chooses to remain airborne. Also the vast majority would be statues to Superman as well. Supes didn't want to be hit by DD and purposely tried to avoid him yet he couldn't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So has Gladiator's yet it doesn't just kill whoever it hits.

I'm fairly sure that the majority on the team can't survive inside the sun. So hv easily pawns those.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Supes didn't want to be hit by DD and purposely tried to avoid him yet he couldn't.

DD evolved claws to snare Superman. If DD wouldn't have done that then Superman could have fought DD without getting touched.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm fairly sure that the majority on the team can't survive inside the sun. So hv easily pawns those. It didn't easily pwn WW and he tried throwing her into the sun and he hit her with all out hv. There goes your theory.

Name some characters that hv has killed.Originally posted by h1a8
DD evolved claws to snare Superman. If DD wouldn't have done that then Superman could have fought DD without getting touched. He threw a bone fragment into Supes. LOL. All they have to do is throw something at him, basically. That was one on one this is a team of maniacs vs. one superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
The vast majority of these beings can't even fly. Superman can bfr each one if he wants. Plus the ones who can't fly really have no way of hitting him if he chooses to remain airborne. Also the vast majority would be statues to Superman as well.

Originally posted by golem370
Superman can't compare to all of these guys in strength Rulk would a close or an even rivalry

rulk doesn't have the combination of superman's speed and strength, though, which means superman would naturally hit harder.

Originally posted by carver9
Half of the people in this battle would tank and probably laugh at his heat vision. I also dont think that it'll be safe to heat vision rulk since it could basically power him up to levels where Superman wouldnt even stand a chance. Cold breath, thats not doing anything to at least 90% of the people here.

I cant believe you are saying that Superman is winning this when he has had problems with people like Kalibak and Mantis. Hell, they even koed him ending with Orion saving his life.

no, they wouldn't. don't be ridiculous.

his cold breath would flash freeze half the guys on the field. he has the feats to back it up too.

they didn't beat him. at all. they distracted him and (which is what the narrator said) got incredibly lucky.

f*ck sake man. i've told you flat out to stop this shit. if you're going to make claims, at least back them up.

Originally posted by -Pr-
rulk doesn't have the combination of superman's speed and strength, though, which means superman would naturally hit harder.



no, they wouldn't. don't be ridiculous.

his cold breath would flash freeze half the guys on the field. he has the feats to back it up too.

they didn't beat him. at all. they distracted him and (which is what the narrator said) got incredibly lucky.

f*ck sake man. i've told you flat out to stop this shit. if you're going to make claims, at least back them up.

I'm not responding to this post (I agree with most of it). So I'm leaving it be.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not responding to this post (I agree with most of it). So I'm leaving it be.

so you can go and recycle the opinion in another thread? no dude.

Originally posted by -Pr-
so you can go and recycle the opinion in another thread? no dude.

LOL, naah, I'm just trying to find another way of debating because I went back and read a couple of my post and I do low ball instead of debating BUT some of the people on that list can take heat vision and I dont think anything cold would work against them.

Originally posted by carver9
LOL, naah, I'm just trying to find another way of debating because I went back and read a couple of my post and I do low ball instead of debating BUT some of the people on that list can take heat vision and I dont think anything cold would work against them. Debate the strengths of the character you think will win.

It doesn't have to be 100% serious all the time. I've been known to have fun in the threads. The difference is people knew I was messing around when I'd post scans of Batman using the Batkick on DS or Wolverine getting bonked in the head with a rock by Pip.

You tend to go for the lowest feats for the character you're debating against.

A man who can't hit, can't fight!

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1971/supermanfast3ar.jpg

Wait, theres something wrong about Pip smacking Wolverine in the head with a rock? That was a big rock...

Originally posted by Badabing
Debate the strengths of the character you think will win.

It doesn't have to be 100% serious all the time. I've been known to have fun in the threads. The difference is people knew I was messing around when I'd post scans of Batman using the Batkick on DS or Wolverine getting bonked in the head with a rock by Pip.

You tend to go for the lowest feats for the character you're debating against.

Thats exactly what I noticed and what you said is the best way to put it.

Thats what I'm going to do though because again, I went back and read some of my post and what you just said is what I was doing.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It didn't easily pwn WW and he tried throwing her into the sun and he hit her with all out hv. There goes your theory. It was hurting her bad. It even went through her head from an angle. If Superman would have got a straight aim it would have went straight through her brain. Diana's fingers are more durable though as shown. Plus Diana is uber durable too. Do you think most of these characters on the list can survive the heat of the core the Sun?
Superman can vary the strength of his hv. Superman doesn't kill and thus it is rare you see him unleash the full fury of the hv. But Superman can definitely amp it up to a level where it seriously harms but not kills.

LOL at someone throwing something at Superman. DD is faster than all members on the team. He attacks so fast that version of Superman couldn't respond. The DD attack was so fast that it went through Superman's shoulder like liquid. But Bullets, missles, etc. are statues to Superman and can pick them out of the air like Neo.

Originally posted by Badabing
Debate the strengths of the character you think will win.

It doesn't have to be 100% serious all the time. I've been known to have fun in the threads. The difference is people knew I was messing around when I'd post scans of Batman using the Batkick on DS or Wolverine getting bonked in the head with a rock by Pip.

You tend to go for the lowest feats for the character you're debating against.
Oh shit I forgot about all that . Remember this...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=422381

Originally posted by h1a8
It was hurting her bad. It even went through her head from an angle. If Superman would have got a straight aim it would have went straight through her brain. Diana's fingers are more durable though as shown. Plus Diana is uber durable too. Do you think most of these characters on the list can survive the heat of the core the Sun?
Superman can vary the strength of his hv. Superman doesn't kill and thus it is rare you see him unleash the full fury of the hv. But Superman can definitely amp it up to a level where it seriously harms but not kills.

LOL at someone throwing something at Superman. DD is faster than all members on the team. He attacks so fast that version of Superman couldn't respond. The DD attack was so fast that it went through Superman's shoulder like liquid. But Bullets, missles, etc. are statues to Superman and can pick them out of the air like Neo. Yes, it hurt her but in no way, shape, or form did it come even close to beating her. Most of his attacks hurt her. A flick to the head wouldn't feel good from superman.


I don't see Superman easily throwing them into the sun nor do i see his hv as being anything similar to being thrown into the sun. Why would he throw WW into the sun if his hv was the exact same thing? Seriously?

Supes wasn't holding back in issue 210 against WW hence I brought it up yet it didn't kill nor even ko WW.

No, that's not true at all. if you read comics you'd realize that Superman gets hit all the time and that everyone doesn't possess superspeed that does it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, it hurt her but in no way, shape, or form did it come even close to beating her. Most of his attacks hurt her. A flick to the head wouldn't feel good from superman.


I don't see Superman easily throwing them into the sun nor do i see his hv as being anything similar to being thrown into the sun. Why would he throw WW into the sun if his hv was the exact same thing? Seriously?

Supes wasn't holding back in issue 210 against WW hence I brought it up yet it didn't kill nor even ko WW.

No, that's not true at all. if you read comics you'd realize that Superman gets hit all the time and that everyone doesn't possess superspeed that does it.

The sun has both destructive heat and pressure. The pressure in the core is more than millions of tons per square in. Diana can block and deflect hv with her braces or just move away from the beam. Thus it is easier and more damaging to take Diana to the sun instead. Also, you ignored the fact that it easily penetrated her head cleanly.

Superman doesn't have to take any of the non flying members to the sun. He just can bfr them to space. I was referring to if Superman unleashes his full hv might (he won't) then it would be hotter than the core of a star. Superman would most likely have his hv on a level where it affects and not kills. That's if he even uses that tactic.

LoebForce Rulk solos

Originally posted by h1a8
The sun has both destructive heat and pressure. The pressure in the core is more than millions of tons per square in. Diana can block and deflect hv with her braces or just move away from the beam. Thus it is easier and more damaging to take Diana to the sun instead. Also, you ignored the fact that it easily penetrated her head cleanly.

Superman doesn't have to take any of the non flying members to the sun. He just can bfr them to space. I was referring to if Superman unleashes his full hv might (he won't) then it would be hotter than the core of a star. Superman would most likely have his hv on a level where it affects and not kills. That's if he even uses that tactic. The point is if hv was as powerful as you said it was it would have melted her face off. It was nothing more than one statement the other writers don't take into account and why Glads hv nor Superman's kills you on the spot.

Easier said that done. How often has he done that? Once yet you act like it's a walk in the park. I guess every time a baddy shows up and things get rough it's to the moon, alice.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The point is if hv was as powerful as you said it was it would have melted her face off. It was nothing more than one statement the other writers don't take into account and why Glads hv nor Superman's kills you on the spot.

Easier said that done. How often has he done that? Once yet you act like it's a walk in the park. I guess every time a baddy shows up and things get rough it's to the moon, alice.

It did more than melt her face off. It went cleanly through it.

That's right. When things got harry with Lobo it was to the moon alice.

Originally posted by h1a8
It did more than melt her face off. It went cleanly through it.

That's right. When things got harry with Lobo it was to the moon alice. And? It didn't kill her it just hurt and burned her badly.

This isn't cbr he just can't throw anyone he wants to the moon. Thor threw someone out of the solar system once and you don't hear me arguing that sort of ridiculousness.

Originally posted by quanchi112
And? It didn't kill her it just hurt and burned her badly.

This isn't cbr he just can't throw anyone he wants to the moon. Thor threw someone out of the solar system once and you don't hear me arguing that sort of ridiculousness. What is cbr?

If things get hairy it is always an option. Superman did it before.

Show or point me the issue where Thor threw someone out of the solar system. Why haven't I've heard of this feat?

I don't mind Thor being able to bfr someone with a punch or throw. This is very acceptable.

i supes plays it smart he can win this, but you know how he liked to brawl.

Originally posted by r0nm0n88
i supes plays it smart he can win this, but you know how he liked to brawl.

I know, that is why he has a chance to lose here. Superman has been random just like Thor. Just like Thor sometimes he fights smart, sometimes he don't, and sometimes he forgets his powers.

Originally posted by h1a8
I know, that is why he has a chance to lose here. Superman has been random just like Thor. Just like Thor sometimes he fights smart, sometimes he don't, and sometimes he forgets his powers. '

lol every character forgets their powers every once in awhile. Personally on these forums i like to believe everyone fights to full potential and as smart as they have been shown to be. I mean if supes fought smart DOS DD wouldnt have stood a chance.

With this match up supes has to fight smart, and has no room for error. One mistake and he could be grounded and put down. If he utilizes speed and flight he should win via BFRing alot of guys, and just beating some down.

Originally posted by h1a8
What is cbr?

If things get hairy it is always an option. Superman did it before.

Show or point me the issue where Thor threw someone out of the solar system. Why haven't I've heard of this feat?

I don't mind Thor being able to bfr someone with a punch or throw. This is very acceptable. A forum where they debate purely on powerset.

I won't post it for you because I just don't care what you think.

The reason you probably haven't heard of it before because it was a ridiculous feat no way takes seriously for a forum win around here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
A forum where they debate purely on powerset.

I won't post it for you because I just don't care what you think.

The reason you probably haven't heard of it before because it was a ridiculous feat no way takes seriously for a forum win around here.

Be nice quan at least give issue number. If i comment, it will be only positive for Thor. I love these types of feats. They give me something to calculate.

Originally posted by h1a8
Be nice quan at least give issue number. If i comment, it will be only positive for Thor. I love these types of feats. They give me something to calculate. Writers don't calculate strength though they draw something that looks visually cool they don't sit there with calculators and a handbook.

I won't give you an issue number because you ignore everything you don't agree with making you biased.

Originally posted by h1a8
Be nice quan at least give issue number. If i comment, it will be only positive for Thor. I love these types of feats. They give me something to calculate. Journey into Mystery 90.
47 years ago.

he could take out a lot of them with massed attacks--freeze or heat. he could easily break up the battlefield itself to seperate them. most wouldn't be able to stop a bfr if he continually blitzed and lobbed them one at a time into orbit. i doubt he could win in a comicbook. he can most certainly win in this forum.

Originally posted by quanchi112
And? It didn't kill her it just hurt and burned her badly.

This isn't cbr he just can't throw anyone he wants to the moon. Thor threw someone out of the solar system once and you don't hear me arguing that sort of ridiculousness.

except, superman has bfr'd people on multiple occasions when people were in danger/it suited him.

Team in the worst stomp in history. Superman has been beaten by FAR less and weaker teams.

This team is a joke, speed and heat vision take most of them out in the first second.

Herc cannot win this all in his solitude! (speed owns)

Originally posted by Bentley
This team is a joke, speed and heat vision take most of them out in the first second.

Herc cannot win this all in his solitude! (speed owns) Could you be kind enough to show me superman using speed and hv to take out a team close to this one.. Then please show me where any member of the team being taken out in seconds or hv from anyone.

Originally posted by RIVER-OF-POWER
Could you be kind enough to show me superman using speed and hv to take out a team close to this one.. Then please show me where any member of the team being taken out in seconds or hv from anyone.

Current Thing
Ultimate Thing
Colossus(616)
Ultimate Colossus
Ultimate Thor
Namor

can all be one shotted with high powered hv or freeze breath.

Rulk soloes.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Current Thing
Ultimate Thing
Colossus(616)
Ultimate Colossus
Ultimate Thor
Namor

can all be one shotted with high powered hv or freeze breath.

I do not agree with 616 Thing, Namor and Ultimate Colossus

Originally posted by RIVER-OF-POWER
Could you be kind enough to show me superman using speed and hv to take out a team close to this one.. Then please show me where any member of the team being taken out in seconds or hv from anyone.

Heat vision is stated to be hotter than the sun. Could you please show me any scan of these characters standing those temperatures?

No you can't. As far as super speed fighting from Superman, there is a very good respect thread, just go there and check it.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Rulk soloes.


If Hulk can overheat Rulk someone with actual heat powers will do it easily.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Current Thing
Ultimate Thing
Colossus(616)
Ultimate Colossus
Ultimate Thor
Namor

can all be one shotted with high powered hv or freeze breath. If they all stand together and fight extra stupid, then superman might, and thats a big MIGHT take out two of them.. This is a team of characters that will fight as a team and in a fashion that will lead them to victory, Rulk alone will do the heavy work, but he will have plenty of help.. this is spite against one of my favorite characters.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
I do not agree with 616 Thing, Namor and Ultimate Colossus

616 thing wouldn't stand up to that level of heat or cold.

namor would be hit by both the concussive effects and the massive heat caused by the blast. will it knock him out cold? maybe not, but it would take him out of the fight.

why not ultimate colossus?

Originally posted by RIVER-OF-POWER
If they all stand together and fight extra stupid, then superman might, and thats a big MIGHT take out two of them.. This is a team of characters that will fight as a team and in a fashion that will lead them to victory, Rulk alone will do the heavy work, but he will have plenty of help.. this is spite against one of my favorite characters.

i didn't mean hit every single one at the same time.

Originally posted by RIVER-OF-POWER
Team in the worst stomp in history. Superman has been beaten by FAR less and weaker teams. Rookie and new member I suggest you read the forum rules because this post ignores them.
Combatants are to fight to the best of their abilities according to what they have shown. So using evidence of Superman losing to someone weaker on the list is a no go.

Originally posted by h1a8
Rookie and new member I suggest you read the forum rules because this post ignores them.
Combatants are to fight to the best of their abilities according to what they have shown. So using evidence of Superman losing to someone weaker on the list is a no go. The team will be fighting at the best of their abilities as will superman.. I dont see superman as the winner in this contest.. My brother warned me about you and others, so either bring proof or debate how your said character will win without using words such as rookie when you answer my posts.. If you need a few comics to get scans to back up your claims, i will be more than happy to send you a few of our 1000+ superman,JLA comics. I may be a (rookie) on this site, but my knowledge on superman far surpass yours.. Either debate with proof or stay away from my posts. Thank you kindly.

Originally posted by RIVER-OF-POWER
The team will be fighting at the best of their abilities as will superman.. I dont see superman as the winner in this contest.. My brother warned me about you and others, so either bring proof or debate how your said character will win without using words such as rookie when you answer my posts.. If you need a few comics to get scans to back up your claims, i will be more than happy to send you a few of our 1000+ superman,JLA comics. I may be a (rookie) on this site, but my knowledge on superman far surpass yours.. Either debate with proof or stay away from my posts. Thank you kindly.

your brother?

Originally posted by -Pr-
616 thing wouldn't stand up to that level of heat or cold.

namor would be hit by both the concussive effects and the massive heat caused by the blast. will it knock him out cold? maybe not, but it would take him out of the fight.

why not ultimate colossus?



i didn't mean hit every single one at the same time. Oh, i see.

superman

Originally posted by -Pr-
your brother? Yes, my brother. I have four comic book freak brothers that have collected comics for a very long time. You know one of them well.

Originally posted by RIVER-OF-POWER
Yes, my brother. I have four comic book freak brothers that have collected comics for a very long time. You know one of them well.

who is he?

Originally posted by -Pr-
who is he? Which one?.. you have banned 2 of them.

Originally posted by RIVER-OF-POWER
Which one?.. you have banned 2 of them.

a lot of people on these boards have been banned over the years (though it's rarely me that does it personally).

Originally posted by -Pr-
a lot of people on these boards have been banned over the years (though it's rarely me that does it personally). Well, my brothers are headstrong and lack meaningful debating skills, yet they know characters, but i bring something far more to the table.. Pleased to meet you Pr. It will be my pleasure to debate you and others.

Originally posted by RIVER-OF-POWER
Well, my brothers are headstrong and lack meaningful debating skills, yet they know characters, but i bring something far more to the table.. Pleased to meet you Pr. It will be my pleasure to debate you and others.

ok then... welcome, and such.

Originally posted by -Pr-
ok then... welcome, and such. Thank you.

Originally posted by Bentley
Heat vision is stated to be hotter than the sun. Could you please show me any scan of these characters standing those temperatures?

No you can't. As far as super speed fighting from Superman, there is a very good respect thread, just go there and check it.




If Hulk can overheat Rulk someone with actual heat powers will do it easily. I will get back to you on the hotter than the sun thing. I need to go and check other characters with hotter than the sun heat vision and see if they ever fried a team. But i cannot show scans of any member of the team taking such heat because they have never been hit with such heat.

Were it not for speed and heat vision team would actually stomp Superman. Fly and BFR tactical opponents would come handy but he would be overwhelmed. Speed still let's him defeat almost everyone before they get close enough to matter.

Originally posted by -Pr-
except, superman has bfr'd people on multiple occasions when people were in danger/it suited him. I am not saying he won't try especially in this scenario. I think bfr definitely becomes a stronger possibility when the odds are increased against the character.

I just don't seem him having his way with everyone in time before he's overwhelmed.

Originally posted by Bentley
This team is a joke, speed and heat vision take most of them out in the first second.

Herc cannot win this all in his solitude! (speed owns) Rulk's a joke?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not saying he won't try especially in this scenario. I think bfr definitely becomes a stronger possibility when the odds are increased against the character.

I just don't seem him having his way with everyone in time before he's overwhelmed.

Rulk's a joke?

why not? he's certainly fast enough.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Rulk's a joke?


In a sense.

However, I already addressed that he got overheated by Hulk who has no heat powers or whatsoever, so hotter than the sun heat vision is an easy way to get read of him. Were speed and HV less of a factor in this battle, Rulk would be one of the most important cornerstones to absolutely stomp Supes here.

But under the stipulations, if Supes wants to win, he does.

Originally posted by Bentley
In a sense.

However, I already addressed that he got overheated by Hulk who has no heat powers or whatsoever, so hotter than the sun heat vision is an easy way to get read of him. Were speed and HV less of a factor in this battle, Rulk would be one of the most important cornerstones to absolutely stomp Supes here.

But under the stipulations, if Supes wants to win, he does. He drained all of the Hulk's powers and has owned him before so and directly after wards.


He has absorbed the Surfer's powers and killed him in a heartbeat.

I guess iyo Glads can easily beat this guy since your probe to take hyperbole into account here. Rulk getting overheated doesn't mean he fears the Human Torch. He was angry and that's why he overheated. Hulk gains strength I thought from anger while it actually hinders Rulk.Originally posted by -Pr-
why not? he's certainly fast enough. Because he has been beaten many times by far weaker characters and less powerful opponents. We have Namor, Ulik, Rulk, Herc, Atlas, etc. plus a whole lot of canon fodder.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Because he has been beaten many times by far weaker characters and less powerful opponents. We have Namor, Ulik, Rulk, Herc, Atlas, etc. plus a whole lot of canon fodder.

what far weaker characters have actually beaten him and taken him out of a fight completely?

Originally posted by -Pr-
what far weaker characters have actually beaten him and taken him out of a fight completely? Kalibak , Mantis, and shadow demons have beaten him. DD has been more than enough to occupy Superman before as has Orion,BA, and Marvel.

I see it happening like in hunter prey with Superman being a little more effective but being overwhelmed.

Originally posted by RIVER-OF-POWER
The team will be fighting at the best of their abilities as will superman.. I dont see superman as the winner in this contest.. My brother warned me about you and others, so either bring proof or debate how your said character will win without using words such as rookie when you answer my posts.. If you need a few comics to get scans to back up your claims, i will be more than happy to send you a few of our 1000+ superman,JLA comics. I may be a (rookie) on this site, but my knowledge on superman far surpass yours.. Either debate with proof or stay away from my posts. Thank you kindly.

Debate with proof? First of all your post had 0 proof in it. You say Superman lost to someone weaker that the people on the list but failed to mention who or show the scans. Second, you hinted at low PIS feats as evidence when PIS goes against the rules and characters must fight at their best ability.

Even if the team fight at their best ability that wouldn't make most of them able to fly or have faster than light reflexes. Superman fighting at his best can bfr most of them anytime he wants.

You may or may not have 1000+ Superman comics but you certainly didn't read many to say the things you've said. Either that or you are just bias towards Marvel (or bias against Superman) and failed to understand forum rules.

And lastly, proof is a strong word. A great deal of the time proof can't be offered, only evidence. I always attempt to offer evidence or proof in every claim I make. It is usually more or less in the reasoning or science of a feat though. If I offer a claim without evidence then either the claim is fairly trivial based off known feats or I will upon request. I will not fail to offer evidence or proof if someone asks me to.

Now that you know, learn me from yourself and not someone else. You may actually like me or you may still hate me. But at least see for yourself and don't go blindly what others tell you. Many have told me about another only to find that the other was actually cool and nothing like what people said.

Originally posted by h1a8
Debate with proof? First of all your post had 0 proof in it. You say Superman lost to someone weaker that the people on the list but failed to mention who or show the scans. Second, you hinted at low PIS feats as evidence when PIS goes against the rules and characters must fight at their best ability.

Even if the team fight at their best ability that wouldn't make most of them able to fly or have faster than light reflexes. Superman fighting at his best can bfr most of them anytime he wants.

You may or may not have 1000+ Superman comics but you certainly didn't read many to say the things you've said. Either that or you are just bias towards Marvel (or bias against Superman) and failed to understand forum rules.

And lastly, proof is a strong word. A great deal of the time proof can't be offered, only evidence. I always attempt to offer evidence or proof in every claim I make. It is usually more or less in the reasoning or science of a feat though. If I offer a claim without evidence then either the claim is fairly trivial based off known feats or I will upon request. I will not fail to offer evidence or proof if someone asks me to.

Now that you know, learn me from yourself and not someone else. You may actually like me or you may still hate me. But at least see for yourself and don't go blindly what others tell you. Many have told me about another only to find that the other was actually cool and nothing like what people said. Then show me superman removing members of a fighting team at said speed. Then allow me to see him utilizing faster than light reflexes. Last yet not least, show me where he freezes or hv like characters such as the ones hes fighting here. By the way, i judge a person by what they say and not by what anyone else tells me, yet your answers on other superman battle threads tells me all i need to know ( i checked up on you ).. And how do you assume that i hate you? You may be cool.

Ok, now this. Even if a character is assumed to be able to perform said feats, shall we throw out the other events that will be taking place as the attacking character launch his/her attack? There are 17 against 1. I7 different attacks taking place. What kind of attacks is debatable. but it is known what superman as 1 person will be doing, he will do well, but i just dont see him in the winners circle.

16 against 1. Correction

Originally posted by RIVER-OF-POWER
Then show me superman removing members of a fighting team at said speed. Then allow me to see him utilizing faster than light reflexes. Last yet not least, show me where he freezes or hv like characters such as the ones hes fighting here. By the way, i judge a person by what they say and not by what anyone else tells me, yet your answers on other superman battle threads tells me all i need to know ( i checked up on you ).. And how do you assume that i hate you? You may be cool.

Ok, now this. Even if a character is assumed to be able to perform said feats, shall we throw out the other events that will be taking place as the attacking character launch his/her attack? There are 17 against 1. I7 different attacks taking place. What kind of attacks is debatable. but it is known what superman as 1 person will be doing, he will do well, but i just dont see him in the winners circle.

Are you implying Superman can't do it or that he won't because of CIS?

I understand many members here go by actual comic fights as their majority deciding factor and not necessarily what would really happen if a character had certain powers and a certain level of intelligence and morality (a forum fight) . Spider-man IMO is too powerful for nearly all street level and mid tier enemies. The mere fact that he has 40x reflexes, super speed and strength, and pre-cog makes it unfair. The only way the writers can usually give a challenge to Spidey is to sometimes ignore some of his powers (mostly spider sense and reflexes). Because dodging a hail of machine gun fire while cracking jokes and dodging laser beams before they are fired contradicts well you know what.

I clash with many members sometimes because I like to use real world science maybe a little too much. I feel I'm forced to because of my background and that this whole comic debating stuff would be nonsense to me if I didn't.

But if Superman can move at least light speed then most definitely most members on the team will be statues to him. If not, then they will definitely appear to be moving in slow motion to Superman. Superman after all has picked a barrage of bullets out of the air like Neo and saved Lois (or Jimmy) after hearing the shot of a gun that she/he was fired upon from close range while being miles away.

Yes characters in comics have their good showings and their contradicting low ones. But in a forum fight it is nonsensical to assume that a character's ability will be randomly changing. This is why the forum rules suggest that characters MUST fight to their best ability. We can't have spider-man at one moment with his spider sense dodging a hail of bullets and 2 seconds later not have it and get shot in the head.

Welcome to KMC River. I will strive to be non bias with you (and other members) and listen carefully to your arguments and try my best to be objective yet fair.

Originally posted by h1a8
Are you implying Superman can't do it or that he won't because of CIS?

I understand many members here go by actual comic fights as their majority deciding factor and not necessarily what would really happen if a character had certain powers and a certain level of intelligence and morality (a forum fight) . Spider-man IMO is too powerful for nearly all street level and mid tier enemies. The mere fact that he has 40x reflexes, super speed and strength, and pre-cog makes it unfair. The only way the writers can usually give a challenge to Spidey is to sometimes ignore some of his powers (mostly spider sense and reflexes). Because dodging a hail of machine gun fire while cracking jokes and dodging laser beams before they are fired contradicts well you know what.

I clash with many members sometimes because I like to use real world science maybe a little too much. I feel I'm forced to because of my background and that this whole comic debating stuff would be nonsense to me if I didn't.

But if Superman can move at least light speed then most definitely most members on the team will be statues to him. If not, then they will definitely appear to be moving in slow motion to Superman. Superman after all has picked a barrage of bullets out of the air like Neo and saved Lois (or Jimmy) after hearing the shot of a gun that she/he was fired upon from close range while being miles away.

Yes characters in comics have their good showings and their contradicting low ones. But in a forum fight it is nonsensical to assume that a character's ability will be randomly changing. This is why the forum rules suggest that characters MUST fight to their best ability. We can't have spider-man at one moment with his spider sense dodging a hail of bullets and 2 seconds later not have it and get shot in the head.

Welcome to KMC River. I will strive to be non bias with you (and other members) and listen carefully to your arguments and try my best to be objective yet fair. Thanks. I also think that in a forum battle a character will be at his/her best without low showing involved. To me, if its in a characters powerset to blitz and defeat many, then he/she will do it.

superman breaking the sound barrier or dive bombing the field disorients or takes out most of these opponents, he can BFR them easily with one hit, the ones that can fly aren't powerful enough to challenge him for extended time.

red hulk has no chance, he was put down when he was stabbed in the neck by a knife, he only beat a thor who wasn't trying and a young silver surfer by draining his energy, none of these characters really have strength feats to compete with superman's. he takes this easily.

superman may get into slug fights one on one or when he is trying to get his opponent to yield, against a team where his only goal is victory though, he will take them out fairly quickly.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kalibak , Mantis, and shadow demons have beaten him. DD has been more than enough to occupy Superman before as has Orion,BA, and Marvel.

I see it happening like in hunter prey with Superman being a little more effective but being overwhelmed.

when have kalibak and mantis completely ko'd him and removed him from a fight?

you're saying the majority of guys on this field are > dd, adam, cm and orion?

Originally posted by -Pr-
when have kalibak and mantis completely ko'd him and removed him from a fight?

you're saying the majority of guys on this field are > dd, adam, cm and orion? He was at their mercy at the time Orion showed up.

I am saying combined they are. Supes usually has his hands full with one of these guys but putting a team like this against him and expecting a fight is only if Superman goes against the comics and how he is portrayed normally.


I think DD gets overrated as well. Jurgens also said he's take Superman against him at 95 percent power level and at the time of the fight it's not saying much about DD.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was at their mercy at the time Orion showed up.

I am saying combined they are. Supes usually has his hands full with one of these guys but putting a team like this against him and expecting a fight is only if Superman goes against the comics and how he is portrayed normally.


I think DD gets overrated as well. Jurgens also said he's take Superman against him at 95 percent power level and at the time of the fight it's not saying much about DD.

not this again. do i really need to go through DOTNG again? i thought you were better than this. shame on me, i guess.

but he wouldn't be going against the comics at all. if he had to fight a team of those men, he'd use his speed, which he does when he fights almost every group he fights.

dd isn't the same animal he was when jurgens wrote him.

LOL on how superman fans rely on supermans speed blitzing to win every fight

OR a Wide Range of FB and HV. Then again, I like Blitz more because it pisses you off.

Its true, though to be fair thats just as much a DC thing as it is Supes. Every fight he blitzes, anyone he cant blitz he throws into the sun. Pretty mindless debating.

Originally posted by -Pr-
not this again. do i really need to go through DOTNG again? i thought you were better than this. shame on me, i guess.

but he wouldn't be going against the comics at all. if he had to fight a team of those men, he'd use his speed, which he does when he fights almost every group he fights.

dd isn't the same animal he was when jurgens wrote him. I know the key word you were going to tell me was a "lucky" punch but a punch that did damage it was nonetheless. You didn't change my opinion then nor will you now.

I am not saying he can't or wouldn't use his speed I am saying with a group this size he gets caught, eventually.

I know Jurgens is just one writer's point of view but most on here hold hp DD to another standard and his own writer claimed Superman minus the moral constraints and his upbringing at 95 percent power level would be favored against this specific DD. This is the same DD Superman couldn't avoid using his speed and ranged attacks against a foe who cannot fly.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I know the key word you were going to tell me was a "lucky" punch but a punch that did damage it was nonetheless. You didn't change my opinion then nor will you now.

I am not saying he can't or wouldn't use his speed I am saying with a group this size he gets caught, eventually.

I know Jurgens is just one writer's point of view but most on here hold hp DD to another standard and his own writer claimed Superman minus the moral constraints and his upbringing at 95 percent power level would be favored against this specific DD. This is the same DD Superman couldn't avoid using his speed and ranged attacks against a foe who cannot fly.

except, i was right then, and i'm right now.

by who? the last guy standing? he's hundreds if not thousands of times faster than pretty much everyone here. if he's blitzed everyone else, what is one or two guys going to do?

superman back then wasn't nearly as fast as he is now.