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both teams don't have perfect teamwork, but they both want to win so if the clearer heads (parker and logan (i guess)) can convince their bigger more savage teammates to play along, they might be able to create some decent plays.

Team 2.

Well, I'd bet Peter over either, and Gargan theoretically *should* be stronger than him, but with his performance... hm...

team 1

team1

Team 2 due to Gargan being a frikkin retard...

team 2 for healing

PS i think team 2 is good teamwork

Personally I think Spiderman can solo team 2.

please explain

and try to use data, not that "i have a strong belief" shit.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
please explain

and try to use data, not that "i have a strong belief" shit.

No data needed, just basic understanding.

Spider-man is faster than either member on team 2, has better reflexes, and has spider sense.

These things alone prove that he can't be touch by members on team 2.
Spider sense being precog insures it.

The webbing can be used to slow them down even further, especially if webbed right. Each strand has 10ton strength. So ten strands has 100ton strength. That means if Spidey webs Logan correctly with only 1 strand then he can't get out. Sabretooth needs about a few more stands.

Originally posted by h1a8
Personally I think Spiderman can solo team 2.
dispite the fact he normally on the losing end verse either one in fights.......yea I mean that makes sense spiderman can solo them

Originally posted by h1a8
No data needed, just basic understanding.

Spider-man is faster than either member on team 2, has better reflexes, and has spider sense.

Not he not, he does not even have a single speed feat superior to wolverines. He not faster then either of them. Reflexes if he is faster it by such a marginal amount if have no matter in the fight. spidersense? Greta they both are vastly more skilled.


Originally posted by h1a8
These things alone prove that he can't be touch by members on team 2.
Spider sense being precog insures it.
oh god not this crap again. Your delusional, both of them have effortlessly hit him. You refusing to acknowledge this does not change the fact they have hit him, then can hit him and they will.

Originally posted by h1a8
The webbing can be used to slow them down even further, especially if webbed right. Each strand has 10ton strength. So ten strands has 100ton strength. That means if Spidey webs Logan correctly with only 1 strand then he can't get out. Sabretooth needs about a few more stands.
They can dodge and easily cut it. Now your jsut making shit up, it has never once been stated that each strand has ten ton strength thats absurd and down right bullshit. 10 strands has neevr eqaul 100 ton strength. your so delusional it sad. Sabre-tooth ahs effortlessly ripped out of spidermans webbing before.

im not even gunna bother with you after this, becuase your straight up rediculous when it comes to spiderman and love to make spiderman into this unbeatable monster he simply not and ignore the fact he hit constantly.

wolverine & sabretooth

Although I agree saying that Spider-man can take both Wolverine and Sabertooth is absurd, I have to point out that he IS faster than them and has better reflexes.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not he not, he does not even have a single speed feat superior to wolverines. He not faster then either of them. Reflexes if he is faster it by such a marginal amount if have no matter in the fight. spidersense? Greta they both are vastly more skilled. He has speed feats where he raced perpendicular against bullets and won. He has feats where a bullet is a few inches away from him and he gets out of the way. In all honesty it is clear that Spider-man is a lot faster than Logan. Logan is like Batman, CA, Daredevil, etc. Faster than a human but slower than a true speedster. Just look at some of there confrontations.


This is a forum fight not a comic one. Comic fights are invalid as evidence if they go against what will really happen. Hitting Spider-man by these two is not possible do to his pre-cog. Are you saying that Spidey doesn't have pre cog?

Its been stated that 1 stream of webbing has a tensile strength of 10tons. Everyone knows this.
Its Stan Lee's fault. He created a being that theoretically can't be beat physically by mid tier and under. The only way to give Spider-man some adversity is to go against his stated powers. Otherwise, it is extremely difficult to create a villain that not only can beat spidey but one where it is probable that Spidey can beat him/her too.

Originally posted by SamZED
Although I agree saying that Spider-man can take both Wolverine and Sabertooth is absurd, I have to point out that he IS faster than them and has better reflexes.

And Spider sense (pre cog) which is greater than the other two.
And Webbing.

No sense arguing about speed only about 2+3 people disagree there (surprise) and it has been done to death. I don't see him soloing the two unless he has some circumstances crop to his advantage, however about him being on the "losing end between the two all the time" that isn't quite true... not at all.

Team 2.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Team 2. wow...you've surpassed even battlehammer.

Originally posted by Starscream M
wow...you've surpassed even battlehammer.

Gargan is a non-factor.

Parker gets raped.


Is it so hard to understand?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Parker gets raped.

again

Parker solos easily. WTH r u talking about?

Spider-man can easily solo Wolverine and Sabretooth. Look it up.

No, he can't.

Fighting to the best of his abilities he can.
but in a comic, he might even get some wins but lose a slight majority.

Originally posted by h1a8
Fighting to the best of his abilities he can.
but in a comic, he might even get some wins but lose a slight majority.

And what if Wolverine and Sabretooth fight to the best of their abilities as well...? Spidey's toast.

No way he would win in a comic.

Originally posted by h1a8
Parker solos easily. WTH r u talking about?

You're all about speed right?

Show me parker moving his arms this fast then I'll believe that he can solo Sabertooth and Wolverine (even though he cant).

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/892/samsonripdp5.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6002/samsonrip2od2.jpg

Parker? Soloing Logan and Creed?

Bullshit.

That Parker wanking with tweezers has to end...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And what if Wolverine and Sabretooth fight to the best of their abilities as well...? Spidey's toast.

No way he would win in a comic.

He could win in a comic because he took multiple tougher foes many times. He has fu%ked up and embarrassed many teams in a single panel. Hell if Spider-man beat firelord in a comic he can Logan and Sabretooth.


Believe it or not we and many others disagree on a very important subject.

Can someone be hit if they are fast or faster than the attack and have pre cog abilities?

You and others say yes but I say no.

This is where the discussion should begin. Because anywhere else would get us nowhere.

Here's my argument:

1. One has Pre cog that forewarns of future thus causing one to change it.
2. One doesn't want any bodily harm done to them.
3. One is fast enough to evade an attack, provided they move the moment it's launched or before.

Conclusion-One cannot get hit ever by such attacks. And if one cannot be hit, they cannot lose.

Lastly, I disagree with the argument 'Spider-man has been hit billions of times in comics so he has a chance of being hit here.'

I disagree because writers have spidey contradict his powers because he's too powerful and they can't think of a creative way to add adversity (enough where he can either lose or win) to the story.
He always manages to dodge hails of machine gun fire like a day job yet get hit by slower moving things.

That is why we have comic fights and forum fights. Big difference.

death

sigh..... i'll give it to team 2 b/c logan has charged right into automatic gunfire and bn completely missed.......

also he has beaten parker consistently......... and so has sabretooth

^Now you are trolling and should get a warning for purposely telling lies.

Spider-man has gotten the best out of Logan almost every appearance.

Why is his teammate the shitty venom?

Originally posted by h1a8
^Now you are trolling and should get a warning for purposely telling lies.

Spider-man has gotten the best out of Logan almost every appearance.

Didn't Spider-Man wail away at Logan's skull for a while at full or near full strength only to have Logan laugh at him?

His punches didn't break a head stone, or at least took multiple hits.

Maybe it was made out of adamantium too.

Originally posted by h1a8
^Now you are trolling and should get a warning for purposely telling lies.

Spider-man has gotten the best out of Logan almost every appearance.

im not lying and i would luv for you to report me just to see a mod read the thread and decide who to punish.........



any ways i remember an incident where spidey was mad at logan b/c he though logan was hitting on his wife... so spidey went straight for logan talking smack trying to kick his butt during training and logan just stabbed him and told him to man up.........


also their was this other time where spidey was in a subway tunnel with logan and parker couldnt do a damn thing when they were fighting mole man's monsters that logan had to take charge of the fight.... they later confronted carver and spidey thinking he could take carver got knocked the f&^% down without landing his punch.... basically parker tried to step up just to get knocked down.... then logan told spidey he would take care of it and fought and beat carver even with interference of carver's morlock allies... their are situations like this between spidey and logan a lot more.......... just about every time showing parker being pretty incompetent when it comes to actual trained hero meta's


and then parker was on the sideline screaming logan noooooo!!!!!!! no one has to die!!

I always thought Spidey was the guy who could mess up and outsmart. Any melee fighter. Spidey would just take em on in the air until he can take advantage of the environment to bind them up. You can say Spidey could take down villians Logan had a hard time with.

Parker is the guy who can adapt and use his surroundings in order to pull PIS wins when otherwise he would be incapable of beating ppl equal or below his stats due to experience lvl in combination to attributes.......b/c he is not actually a skilled warrior meta and cant fight on equal footing in an actual physical confrontation...

that is why parker swings around and uses poles or hit and swing techniques or webbing at a distance when he knows he cant outfight someone with kick and punches...... b/c the person in question has at least lvl 4 fighting skills and wont run into his fist like other villains he faces who charge and are too stupid to duck or thing they are durable enough not be hurt and to their shock either are or get knocked into a power generator ....

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
im not lying and i would luv for you to report me just to see a mod read the thread and decide who to punish.........



any ways i remember an incident where spidey was mad at logan b/c he though logan was hitting on his wife... so spidey went straight for logan talking smack trying to kick his butt during training and logan just stabbed him and told him to man up.........


also their was this other time where spidey was in a subway tunnel with logan and parker couldnt do a damn thing when they were fighting mole man's monsters that logan had to take charge of the fight.... they later confronted carver and spidey thinking he could take carver got knocked the f&^% down without landing his punch.... basically parker tried to step up just to get knocked down.... then logan told spidey he would take care of it and fought and beat carver even with interference of carver's morlock allies... their are situations like this between spidey and logan a lot more.......... just about every time showing parker being pretty incompetent when it comes to actual trained hero meta's

Dude you are full of it. That first incident wasn't a real fight even though Spidey got some good hits in. The second is not Logan beating Spidey either. Either you didn't see the other incidents where Spidey easily (and I mean easily) outclassed and embarrassed Logan like he was nothing or you are lying. Spider-man even embarrassed Logan while he was also fighting the other X-men at the same time.

Lastly, comic fights don't hold much weight as evidence due to various known reasons. Spidey has pre-cog abilities as well as superior speed. These alone makes it impossible for both Logan and Sabretooth to hit him. This not to mention the webbing which can hold 10ton per strand and multiple strands exceeding over 100ton. Spidey once webbed Logan up so easily that Logan couldn't even cut himself out (he had to wait for the webbing to dissolve). Hell a pissed Spidey can level them in a matter of a minute.

15 years of perfecting his own fighting style. Against a city that is a petry dish of insanity and he kicks most of them. I sometimes wondered if Spideys fighting skill is actually better the Wolveys. He is New Yorks protector and the only way team 2 can beat him is through capturing Aunt May and drawing him in. Sabertooth is only good with stealth kills and that wont work with spider sense.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
Parker is the guy who can adapt and use his surroundings in order to pull PIS wins when otherwise he would be incapable of beating ppl equal or below his stats due to experience lvl in combination to attributes.......b/c he is not actually a skilled warrior meta and cant fight on equal footing in an actual physical confrontation...

that is why parker swings around and uses poles or hit and swing techniques or webbing at a distance when he knows he cant outfight someone with kick and punches...... b/c the person in question has at least lvl 4 fighting skills and wont run into his fist like other villains he faces who charge and are too stupid to duck or thing they are durable enough not be hurt and to their shock either are or get knocked into a power generator ....

Originally posted by Wild Shadow

that is why parker swings around and uses poles or hit and swing techniques or webbing at a distance

Erm, no.

It's because its the smartest and most efficient way of fighting for someone with his powerset.

It's like saying Batman uses the cover of darkness even against common thugs because he knows he can't take them straight up.

Originally posted by h1a8
Dude you are full of it. That first incident wasn't a real fight even though Spidey got some good hits in. The second is not Logan beating Spidey either. Either you didn't see the other incidents where Spidey easily (and I mean easily) outclassed and embarrassed Logan like he was nothing or you are lying. Spider-man even embarrassed Logan while he was also fighting the other X-men at the same time.

Lastly, comic fights don't hold much weight as evidence due to various known reasons. Spidey has pre-cog abilities as well as superior speed. These alone makes it impossible for both Logan and Sabretooth to hit him. This not to mention the webbing which can hold 10ton per strand and multiple strands exceeding over 100ton. Spidey once webbed Logan up so easily that Logan couldn't even cut himself out (he had to wait for the webbing to dissolve). Hell a pissed Spidey can level them in a matter of a minute.

what about the time spidey started a fight with logan while logan was lighting a cigarette.... spidey swung logan duck kicked him in the gut and slammed him into a chimney popped his claws and then asked logan if he still wanted to fight?

what did spidey do? he stopped fighting.......

also i dont know about logan having to wait for the web to dissolve to break loose....... i do recall logan annoyed and using his claws and skull for resistance to rip through spidey's webs without having to slice it... so the tensile strength would not be ten tons of each strand unless you think logan is easily a ten tonner if not higher to break free without cutting webs..... :

What happens when spidey goes up against someone with skill:

http://geekwhisperin.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fail-owned-spiderman-comics-fail.jpg

I still want to know how Parker solos this fight.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow

also i dont know about logan having to wait for the web to dissolve to break loose....... i do recall logan annoyed and using his claws and skull for resistance to rip through spidey's webs without having to slice it... so the tensile strength would not be ten tons of each strand unless you think logan is easily a ten tonner if not higher to break free without cutting webs..... :

Incorrect.


Correct answer was:

Option B - PIS

Originally posted by Mshinu
What happens when spidey goes up against someone with skill:

http://geekwhisperin.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fail-owned-spiderman-comics-fail.jpg Hey that scan must be new, I've never seen it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I still want to know how Parker solos this fight.

he dodges bullets and lasers unlike logan proving he is faster....

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
what about the time spidey started a fight with logan while logan was lighting a cigarette.... spidey swung logan duck kicked him in the gut and slammed him into a chimney popped his claws and then asked logan if he still wanted to fight?

what did spidey do? he stopped fighting.......

also i dont know about logan having to wait for the web to dissolve to break loose....... i do recall logan annoyed and using his claws and skull for resistance to rip through spidey's webs without having to slice it... so the tensile strength would not be ten tons of each strand unless you think logan is easily a ten tonner if not higher to break free without cutting webs..... :

I don't recall the fight you mention but I have a feeling you are not telling the whole story.

King Pin has broken Spidey's web before doesn't mean it's not PIS.
Marvel has stated that the webbing can hold 10ton per strand. This is backed up many many times where spidey is supporting multi ton objects with a strand. Thus if these characters were real Logan would have no way to break or cut out of the webbing if Spidey webs him right. Sabretooth would not be able to either, it would just take more strands for him though.

Lastly, the pre cog alone ensures Spidey from getting hit. He can't lose to these two.

The "no skill" garbage again? doh Don't people realize that most of his villains are often physically superior to him or have some sort of physical advantage? If he's just using that, then how would he win? Especially when they are in superior numbers? People do realize that utilizing strength and speed effectively is a skill in of itself?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The "no skill" garbage again? doh Don't people realize that most of his villains are often physically superior to him or have some sort of physical advantage? If he's just using that, then how would he win? Especially when they are in superior numbers? People do realize that utilizing strength and speed effectively is a skill in of itself?

Exactly.

Most people here don't know the definition of "skill".

i was making a point of what happens when he is faced with an opponent who has greater durability, fighting skill knowledge and greater damage output then his........

it makes a world of difference when it isnt just some wild animal or a jobber aura meta with no real combat mindset who is fully dependent on his stats to compete.......

spider is reasonably skilled in his abilities and use o terrain their is no doubt about that.... but he is nowhere as skilled nor possess the mindset of a true seasoned combatant... who kills and can think and lead his opponent....

the spider is repeatedly shown that is his biggest flaw. he isnt a real fighter like Cap, logan,DD, or BP.... they are able to hit him b/c he uses his spider sense and completely dependent on it.

that they use it as an advantage they lead him by throwing a set up attack just so he will leap and not be able to move out of the way of the next one.......

now some of you are going that he can dodge bullets...... so no one can hit him... BS on the comparison..

he dodges bullets do to speed/ poor marksmen skill and spider sense and his ability contort his body to create a smaller profile a good technique for bullet dodging but a fist is not so easily avoided when its coming at you and you either leaped right into it dead center and you cant freeze time and shift ur position to the left or right out of the way..... maybe if the fist was aimed at his leg or arm he can duck it in or lift it up but what is he going to do with his torso?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i was making a point of what happens when he is faced with an opponent who has greater durability, fighting skill knowledge and greater damage output then his........

it makes a world of difference when it isnt just some wild animal or a jobber aura meta with no real combat mindset who is fully dependent on his stats to compete.......

spider is reasonably skilled in his abilities and use o terrain their is no doubt about that.... but he is nowhere as skilled nor possess the mindset of a true seasoned combatant... who kills and can think and lead his opponent....

the spider is repeatedly shown that is his biggest flaw. he isnt a real fighter like Cap, logan,DD, or BP.... they are able to hit him b/c he uses his spider sense and completely dependent on it.

that they use it as an advantage they lead him by throwing a set up attack just so he will leap and not be able to move out of the way of the next one.......

now some of you are going that he can dodge bullets...... so no one can hit him... BS on the comparison..

he dodges bullets do to speed/ poor marksmen skill and spider sense and his ability contort his body to create a smaller profile a good technique for bullet dodging but a fist is not so easily avoided when its coming at you and you either leaped right into it dead center and you cant freeze time and shift ur position to the left or right out of the way..... maybe if the fist was aimed at his leg or arm he can duck it in or lift it up but what is he going to do with his torso? Made a thread on this. You're basically saying that someone who has been fighting for decades does not equal someone who has taken an earth based martial arts class, regardless of experience. It's just silly. Too silly, especially when his physiology doesn't even benefit from the said training in the first place.

The streets like Cap, DD, etc are able to hang with him for a bit because they are *famous* and they don't want to upset fanbases, in fact several of these characters admitted they don't stand up to them if he was going all out.

And then you compare bullet dodging when he is the only one who should be logically dodging them in the first place (from a certain distance mind you) and say it is because of poor marksman skill? None of the others you mentioned can even dodge a bullet on the forum, and only really aim dodge. Don't get me started on lasers.

I wouldn't bring up technique, especially since his moves often look more advanced. (Look at what he did with that spider slayer when angry), MA skills are often a bunch of stats in the first place. Again, can you show me these other characters doing "skillful moves" constantly? Nope. A punch from Spiderman is a punch and a punch from one of them is a super secret nerve strike for whatever reason.

A real combatant is one that fights, not one who has been to a dojo, there are just too many people who have proven that time and time again, oh and he's done fine without his SS soooo many times, hell it only really goes off once or twice in a comic anyways, he doesn't utilize it to the best of the ability as portrayed in the comics. Also he has faced Puma someone with similar abilities but more "MA skill".

Now can Parker use some specialized training? Of course he can, who couldn't? But to insinuate that he's going to be walked all over by a person who has taken an MA class is just silly, especially when he has a superhuman ability to read their moves. Opponents have a harder time reading him and it has been shown time and time again because his moves are more unorthodox to begin with in the first place. Do I have to bring up the Jiu Jitsu story again?

bump

Still T2.

Gargan solos

Parker goes down first.

No way, Gargan goes Super Gargyan and symbiote spirit bombs the little hairy canadian and the other guy.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
No way, Gargan goes Super Gargyan and symbiote spirit bombs the little hairy canadian and the other guy.

Nah. He allows them to shitstomp Parker first. Just for the lulz.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Nah. He allows them to shitstomp Parker first. Just for the lulz. Then I'm going with H1a8
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9766/nature08.th.jpg

as much as ppl would like to think that team 2 wouldnt mesh together in team work they really would it is their black ops training that allows them to pick up where they left off.. sabe wouldnt let someone else hurt kill logan when he is there and wants his death to be at his hands so he will fight to defend and protect logan. also wolverine has stated on panel that they can easily go back to team mode cooperation due to their past training and working together they both know what to do and how to work together without saying a word.

anyways spidey gets kill by either one of them and having gargan makes it worse its like throwing in a handicap grenade that goes off in his hand sooner or later

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Then I'm going with H1a8
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9766/nature08.th.jpg

OK then...

Sabes uses thunderclaps and ground pounds.

Logan - omnidirectional chi attacks.

I say make this KGB Spider-man and we can all gtfo

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Sabes uses thunderclaps and ground pounds. I wouldn't be suprised if this happens, going by Luke Cage and his showing recently.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I wouldn't be suprised if this happens, going by Luke Cage and his showing recently.

What issue?

I don't know take a look in the character ownage thread, Cage thunderclaps

Thanks. I guess it's from new-New Avengers... written by Bendis... he has a man crush on Cage.

Gargan the Great uses his reality warp so the battle is now him and Logan/Creed as a team vs Spidey. Then he pwns spidey in half a panel by using Gargan-jitsu pinky toe death touch.

As for speed, Spidey has gone his whole life avoiding bullets or else he'll die! Wolverine thanks god for that healing factor!! without it he would be dead before 80 yr!

team 2

Team 2 wins.

team 2 takes this, wolverine and creed have tagged Spiderman before, no reason why they couldnt do it again, and as soon as they do it will be bad news for spiderman

In the whole of Manhattan- Team 1.

In a phone booth- Team 2.

I'm going with Team 2

Gargan the great solos... The JLA.

the issue is ppl are arguing based on different premises. The spidey side is arguing based more on power sets. The wolve side is arguing based more on showing.

Both are valid and both are used as evidence on this forum. I think showings tend to have more weight here. Until its settled what type of arguments we are going to use we're not going to get anywhere. spidey's stated powerset is so different from his showings. surfer is kinda the same but we still have a couple feats showing his potential (which usually count more than avg showings here.)

sometimes we can just call it psi and csi but sometimes it happens so much its hard to separate it

Actually spidey's showings>>>>>>than his stated power set.
His spider sense was shown to be so acute than it enable him to dodge homing lasers and many other energy projection beams.

His strength was shown so great (more than enough times) that he could be legitimately considered at least a class 50.

His speed was shown so great that he is easy as least as fast as a bullet.

His webbing was shown to be so strong that one strand is capable of pulling 10 tons.

Spidey has low showings too that contradict his power set. We don't use these here since characters are always fighting to their best ability.

Originally posted by Spiderninja008
""Despite the extent of his healing factor, Wolverine is not immortal. If the injuries are extensive enough, especially if they result in the loss of vital organs, large amounts of blood, and/or loss of physical form, such as having flesh burned away by fire or acid, Wolverine can die."

fail.



How does Creed molesting Logan over and over make Logan look good?



Nobody beats Gargan the great, he soloes.



Huh? Spidey got super powers but Logan/Creed do not??

Well since Gargan can beat Daken and Bullseye at the same time. shifty