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Blood-lust on.

CIS on. No PIS. No BFR.

Fight on an indestructable planet.


http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/19600/475446-295707_148715_wally_west_super_super.jpg vs http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7086/169400-41800-thor_super.JPG

Wally, easily.

With CIS Thor should take a majority.

With CIS still in effect, then Thor should win the majority. Without it, Wally can win some via massive speedblitz, but Thor can take a beating and if he can get even one attack (especially energy or wind that sends Wally flying against a wall) to connect, he can follow up with just one strike, and The Flash becomes the Fzzzzt.

With CIS: Thor 7-8/10 ('cus Wally will screw something up)

Without CIS: Thor 6/10 (with Wally's wins being accomplished in seconds, and Thor's being absolute splatter-kills)

even though CIS is on, remember that both are bloodlusted too.

Flash is wayyyy to fast for Thor...he stomps.

With Cis on i see Thor doing what he did with Hulk 1 time unleashing a huge ass storm.

With No Cis Flash would take it to everyone under Skyfather IMO he is a monster with no CIS

Originally posted by DarkOdin
With Cis on i see Thor doing what he did with Hulk 1 time unleashing a huge ass storm.

With No Cis Flash would take it to everyone under Skyfather IMO he is a monster with no CIS CIS is on

also, how would a lightning storm effect Flash? to him, it would be as easy to avoid as columns of marble.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Flash is wayyyy to fast for Thor...he stomps.

While I can go with that train of thought, this creates some intellectual dissonance with much of what is posted on this forum: By that logic, both Superman and Wonder Woman should be able to speedblitz Thor for easy wins (while neither of them are quite as fast as Wally, they make up for it by being uberstrong) -- and I don't agree with that, conceptually, on several levels, as Thor has demonstrated that he can make for viable attacks/defenses against really fast attackers, and can endure massive punishment. Wally will connect with hundreds and thousands of blows (and powerful ones, at that) with Thor, but all Goldielocks has to do is make one of his sweeping attacks connect (which isn't saying it will automatically work, by any means) and the Flash will be off-kilter for at least a second or two; at that point, all Thor needs to do is strike him physically (if in range) or connect with one of his lightning attacks, and the battle is over. Is this a given? No. Not at all. Wally can win a number of battles against Thor. But conceptually, Thor should be able to make the wins agains him, especially if CIS is still on, 'cus Wally, as a character, is much more likely to make an error judgement in terms of combat than Thor is, in terms of executing a series of attacks.

For the sake of the arguement, I'll amend my CIS-off verdict down one grade, to a 5/10 split. But with CIS? Thor. No question. (Now, don't get me wrong: Thor will be hurting like a b!tch for it, at least for the battles where Wally gets some good attacks it...)

With CIS: Thor 7/10

Without CIS: Flash 9/10

Originally posted by Starscream M
CIS is on

also, how would a lightning storm effect Flash? to him, it would be as easy to avoid as columns of marble.

Just to jump in on that: Lightning would be a better follow-up, or dazzle, attack than an initial sweep; while Wally is pounding on Thor, Thor wills a whirlwind of force to eminate from him -- once Wally is moved/slammed against a wall, what-have-you, Thor can follow through with an attack. For all of Wally's ability (which is very considerable, don't get me wrong), he doesn't possess massive endurance or durability -- he can be stunned quite easily by attacks that connect with him, in terms of the power level he's up against. It would only take one solid blow from Thor (via any of his many attack options) to connect with Wally for him to be out of the fight. Thor can withstand a lot of what Wally will be dishing out, and while many of Thor's attacks will fail, the post massive sweep attack will make the follow-up not that tricky.

With Wally a tie.

With Barry...no friggin chance in Hell for Thor.

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
With Wally a tie.

With Barry...no friggin chance in Hell for Thor.

Now that one I can agree with. Barry is just too smart and clever -- he won't make certain mistakes that Wally might or would. In that scenario:

CIS on: Tie, more or less

CIS off: Thor is in major trouble and better pull some MAJOR god-tricks out of his ass to make this work. Barry 8-9/10

Originally posted by Starscream M
CIS is on

also, how would a lightning storm effect Flash? to him, it would be as easy to avoid as columns of marble. More the fact that Thor caused a huge flood can which he done and start frying the water. Heavy winds that would slow flash down or throw him around etc.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
More the fact that Thor caused a huge flood can which he done and start frying the water. Heavy winds that would slow flash down or throw him around etc. That a big IF.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
That a big IF. Not really, I am not talking about Thor getting 10/10 wins by this tactic just 1 or 2 wins from it.

With CIS on flash just doesn't stack up against Thor ,Superman etc....

He IMO Flash with no-CIS would stop unless someone has a counter to the speedforce "which must gus don't

I know it's non-canon but Thor is capable to create an Hurricane that covers the entire Planet. He has pretty awesome AE abilities. Wally would have to run for his life, though running is what he is best at. I dunno but Thor seems more then capable to build an AE defense against Wally.

Maybe a stalemate is more appropriate.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Not really, I am not talking about Thor getting 10/10 wins by this tactic just 1 or 2 wins from it.

With CIS on flash just doesn't stack up against Thor ,Superman etc....

He IMO Flash with no-CIS would stop unless someone has a counter to the speedforce "which must gus don't
Without CIS and PIS, Flash can easily out blitz Superman or any other High herald. Since blitzing is his only tactic, he can just blitz Thor. Thor is strong enough to kill Wally, maybe even see him coming, but he isn't fast enough to react, or hit Wally despite the 2-3 feats that he has accumulated over 40 years

Wally.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I know it's non-canon but Thor is capable to create an Hurricane that covers the entire Planet. He has pretty awesome AE abilities. Wally would have to run for his life, though running is what he is best at. I dunno but Thor seems more then capable to build an AE defense against Wally.

Maybe a stalemate is more appropriate.
What can a hurricane do that gravity can't?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I know it's non-canon but Thor is capable to create an Hurricane that covers the entire Planet. He has pretty awesome AE abilities. Wally would have to run for his life, though running is what he is best at. I dunno but Thor seems more then capable to build an AE defense against Wally.

Maybe a stalemate is more appropriate. Thor is V3 created a storm all over the world to give Captain American a moment of silence, Whe he created Asgard he created a storm that he could barely stand in.

While fighting Hulk he create a huge rain storm that the hulk had trouble with.

He i think he created a storm all over Ego one time plus I am sure there are others i can't remember right now.

I don't think Thor or any other herald leveler, has much of a chance against a blood-lusted speed force user, regardless of who he is.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
What can a hurricane do that gravity can't?

Cold, windy, Wally will catch a cold and suffer. cold

Originally posted by xJLxKing
What can a hurricane do that gravity can't? Last time a check a hurricane can level cities pull trees out the ground throw cars and trucks around like toys etc.....

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Cold, windy, Wally will catch a cold and suffer. cold
No, He can increase his heat like Barry did recently in Brave and the Bold.naughty

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Last time a check a hurricane can level cities pull trees out the ground throw cars and trucks around like toys etc..... Yeah, and those aren't dangerous to a guy that can manipulate his frequency

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No, He can increase his heat like Barry did recently in Brave and the Bold.naughty

A pity that Thor is from the norse pantheon and not the Greek. animals_bunny1

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Yeah, and those aren't dangerous to a guy that can manipulate his frequency Mjolnir will take care of that little bump in the road

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Mjolnir will take care of that little bump in the road
He doesn't have the time to swing, or move let alone hit

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He doesn't have the time to swing, or move let alone hit With CIS on he has plenty of time. where not talking about a non-cis flash. Mjolnir could also break flashes connection to the speedforce considering what he did to juggs

Originally posted by DarkOdin
With CIS on he has plenty of time. where not talking about a non-cis flash. Mjolnir could also break flashes connection to the speedforce considering what he did to juggs
Speed force =/=Cyt
Speed force gives speed to all beings in the universe, right?
With CIS off, Thor has less time then with CIS on. CIS off actually hurt your argument. With CIS off, Wally can just attack. Any damage he sustains will be healed automatically, or very fast. Any attack that he can't dodge, will be phased through.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Speed force =/=Cyt
Speed force gives speed to all beings in the universe, right?
With CIS off, Thor has less time then with CIS on. CIS off actually hurt your argument. With CIS off, Wally can just attack. Any damage he sustains will be healed automatically, or very fast. Any attack that he can't dodge, will be phased through. Speed force gives all character in the D/C universe speed. The speed force has been cut-off from Flashes before so Molnir could do it too. As well as other characters

With CIS-on Flash would not do what it takes to put Thor down. Thor 's FTL comabt relexes to counter the flash and tag him. With CIS-on flashes have been tagged plenty of time acutally with CI-on flash will gett in too close and get nailed.

Duh cis-off flash would pput a hurt on Thor i only sAid that on the 3rd post

Flash is blood lusted too! I don't see thor touching him.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Speed force gives all character in the D/C universe speed. The speed force has been cut-off from Flashes before so Molnir could do it too. As well as other characters

With CIS-on Flash would not do what it takes to put Thor down. Thor 's FTL comabt relexes to counter the flash and tag him. With CIS-on flashes have been tagged plenty of time acutally with CI-on flash will gett in too close and get nailed.

Duh cis-off flash would pput a hurt on Thor i only sAid that on the 3rd post
Yeah, it's been cut off, but there is nothing to suggest that Thor can do it. The fact that he did it to a being that empowers Juggernaut means nothing. Next, I am going to start hearing from people that Thor can stop the power from a GL ring. Get real. It's not the same power source.
You mean Thor's 4-5 feats that he has accumulated in the past 40 years. LMAO
PIS is off. Remember, Wally ran FTL many times, and even blitzs people. Nothing to suggest he wont do it now.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Yeah, it's been cut off, but there is nothing to suggest that Thor can do it. The fact that he did it to a being that empowers Juggernaut means nothing. Next, I am going to start hearing from people that Thor can stop the power from a GL ring. Get real. It's not the same power source.
You mean Thor's 4-5 feats that he has accumulated in the past 40 years. LMAO
PIS is off. Remember, Wally ran FTL many times, and even blitzs people. Nothing to suggest he wont do it now. LOL Mjolnir has been able to absorb the power comic, odinpower and other equal or more power forms of energy then a green lantern ring please.

Thor has show to cut off skyfather level magic but can't cut the flash of from the speed force great logic.

Not the same power soruce ?? What does it matter what the power source is when Thor's be shown to counter just about everything that been throw his way??

An bloodlusted Thor was able to counter and tagged SS and smash BRB at the same time and yet Flash could do better i think not.

YES PIS if off Thor has a number of WTF abilites to stop flash and what is flash going to be able to to put down a bloodlusted Thor.

This thread is interesting. People cite Supes winning the majority because of his speed against Thor, and Flash winning the majority over Supes because of his speed. However he wouldn't win as easily here? Dunno. Thor does have more exotic abilities to tend with, Flash would fight to the best of his ability, he just wouldn't kill Thor. CIS need not matter, he can just blitz ko I imagine.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
LOL Mjolnir has been able to absorb the power comic, odinpower and other equal or more power forms of energy then a green lantern ring please.

Thor has show to cut off skyfather level magic but can't cut the flash of from the speed force great logic.

Not the same power soruce ?? What does it matter what the power source is when Thor's be shown to counter just about everything that been throw his way??

An bloodlusted Thor was able to counter and tagged SS and smash BRB at the same time and yet Flash could do better i think not.

YES PIS if off Thor has a number of WTF abilites to stop flash and what is flash going to be able to to put down a bloodlusted Thor.
Are you confused?
It matter what the powe source is. Just because he TEMPORARILY cut the powers from Juggernaut doesn't mean he can do so to everyone. Otherwise, you'd need to prove such a high claim. Why? It's simple, you can't go off saying that he can cut off people's power source. Next I'll hear you say, Thor can cut the power source from
-Superman's Cells
-Shazam's
-Captain Marvel and Adam
-Silver Surfer's Cosmic Power from G
-Spectre power from The Presence

LMAO, you get it? Another example is to if SS can MM Wolverine's bones. I guess it mean he can do it too everyone.

You keep saying PIS Thor has crazy abilities, but most of them
1- Can't hit Wally(too fast)
2- Thor wont have time to even use
3- Wally will become intangible.
Another point is that, absorbing one's power is not the same as cutting the power from the user. I never disputed the fact that Thor can absorb GL's energy, I said he stop it(cut it off from the source).

However, if you continue to use the argument that he can cut the power source from other beings, then go ahead. I'll just say that Wally will %$ck up Thor's mind like he did with his enemies. He can even make solid matter unstable like Thor.
Also, with PIS, wally can also steal the speed from Thor. So there goes your entire argument.

Your claims are absurd

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Are you confused?
It matter what the powe source is. Just because he TEMPORARILY cut the powers from Juggernaut doesn't mean he can do so to everyone. Otherwise, you'd need to prove such a high claim. Why? It's simple, you can't go off saying that he can cut off people's power source. Next I'll hear you say, Thor can cut the power source from
-Superman's Cells
-Shazam's
-Captain Marvel and Adam
-Silver Surfer's Cosmic Power from G
-Spectre power from The Presence

LMAO, you get it? Another example is to if SS can MM Wolverine's bones. I guess it mean he can do it too everyone.

You keep saying PIS Thor has crazy abilities, but most of them
1- Can't hit Wally(too fast)
2- Thor wont have time to even use
3- Wally will become intangible.
Another point is that, absorbing one's power is not the same as cutting the power from the user. I never disputed the fact that Thor can absorb GL's energy, I said he stop it(cut it off from the source).

However, if you continue to use the argument that he can cut the power source from other beings, then go ahead. I'll just say that Wally will %$ck up Thor's mind like he did with his enemies. He can even make solid matter unstable like Thor.
Also, with PIS, wally can also steal the speed from Thor. So there goes your entire argument.

Your claims are absurd

I have proved my claim the speedforce is and outside powersource just like jugg's Walley taps into to it as do all flashes.

Thor has sucked power cosmic out of being before and has cut-off others from outside powersources all in the respect thread.

GL's ring is the power source is the ring which is limited "most of the time" Thor has siphon ernergy out of people to kill them or weaken them again in the respect thread.

Mjolnir has tagged intangle being easily vison amoung some.

Thor body and mind have resisted plenty of tricks before classic strange was overwhelmed again in the respect thread

You argument is juts BS i give examples that are back up in the respect thread but you throw them out the window in the usal fanboy fashion

Originally posted by DarkOdin
I have proved my claim the speedforce is and outside powersource just like jugg's Walley taps into to it as do all flashes.

Thor has sucked power cosmic out of being before and has cut-off others from outside powersources all in the respect thread.

GL's ring is the power source is the ring which is limited "most of the time" Thor has siphon ernergy out of people to kill them or weaken them again in the respect thread.

Mjolnir has tagged intangle being easily vison amoung some.

Thor body and mind have resisted plenty of tricks before classic strange was overwhelmed again in the respect thread

You argument is juts BS i give examples that are back up in the respect thread but you throw them out the window in the usal fanboy fashion
No! Just no.
All you do is claim. You got not proof. The only thing you have posted is that he cut the connection from Juggernaut temporarily. That I do not dispute, but the fact that you try to apply it to every shows you absurd logic.

Phasing through objects is different from Vibrating through objects.

I do prove my points. Here are scans just to prove you wrong.
Stealing speed
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/Wally_Respect3/stealspe.jpg

disturbing the vibration of objects(solid)
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/WallyWestRespect/vibmel.jpg

Messing up the mind/brain
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/Wally_Respect3/spedbraishift.jpg

I'll repeat myself again. STEALING, or absorb powers from someone is not the same as CUTTING the power source off

I don't think I even have to go through how ridiculous you claims are. Like I said before, you claim stupid stuff, I can do it also.
-Wally can BFR Thor differently
-Mess him mind up
-Steal his speed
-Makes him unstable
-Blitz

hmm, this thread confuses me... all the people saying that Flash wins (via speedblitz of course) seem to have valid points. Flash is indeed beyond Thor in speed and reaction but ... well, what can Flash do that Surfer cannot?


I ask because the Thor - Surfer threads always end up much closer than this poll ...

Empowered by the Speed Force (Mostly for Barry and almost Bart)

Originally posted by janus77
hmm, this thread confuses me... all the people saying that Flash wins (via speedblitz of course) seem to have valid points. Flash is indeed beyond Thor in speed and reaction but ... well, what can Flash do that Surfer cannot?


I ask because the Thor - Surfer threads always end up much closer than this poll ... it surprised me because everyone gives flash edge over Thor but don't give superman edge over thor even though superman is virtually as fast as flash

I dont see the same argument for surfer because surfer doesnt really speed blitz

Originally posted by DarkOdin
LOL Mjolnir has been able to absorb the power comic, odinpower and other equal or more power forms of energy then a green lantern ring please.

Thor has show to cut off skyfather level magic but can't cut the flash of from the speed force great logic.

Not the same power soruce ?? What does it matter what the power source is when Thor's be shown to counter just about everything that been throw his way??

An bloodlusted Thor was able to counter and tagged SS and smash BRB at the same time and yet Flash could do better i think not.

YES PIS if off Thor has a number of WTF abilites to stop flash and what is flash going to be able to to put down a bloodlusted Thor.

Speed Steal and couple hundred IMPs before Thor thinks about doing anything. There are speedsters then there is the Flash...

Flash 10/10

Originally posted by Starscream M
it surprised me because everyone gives flash edge over Thor but don't give superman edge over thor even though superman is virtually as fast as flash

I dont see the same argument for surfer because surfer doesnt really speed blitz

Superman isn't even close to the flash. Flash would beat supes just like Thor. And supes is my favorite character.

Wally can't be cut from the Speedforce, because he's 'mainlined' to it.

Originally posted by Juntai
Wally can't be cut from the Speedforce, because he's 'mainlined' to it.

Wouldn't matter if he could be. Thor wouldn't have a chance to do so. They are both bloodlusted and a bloodlusted flash would decimate pretty much any herald leveler before they could react.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Wouldn't matter if he could be. Thor wouldn't have a chance to do so. They are both bloodlusted and a bloodlusted flash would decimate pretty much any herald leveler before they could react. Thor durability is more then high enough to last a while agaisnt the flash he has taken worst.

Besides the fact i stated a bunch of reason why Thor can counter flash how about good old time freeze

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir144-StasisVortexAvengers.jpg

Flash can time travel and move through time..i don't think time freeze will work on Flash

LOL. Yeah. Thor is going to get IMP'd to death before he knows what the hell happened.

Well maybe not to death, but certainly enough for the KO.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Thor durability is more then high enough to last a while agaisnt the flash he has taken worst.

Besides the fact i stated a bunch of reason why Thor can counter flash how about good old time freeze

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir144-StasisVortexAvengers.jpg Thor got his time powers taken away a long time ago last I heard.

flash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNIVpMXHqlk
0:56-1:01 ftw

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No! Just no.
All you do is claim. You got not proof. The only thing you have posted is that he cut the connection from Juggernaut temporarily. That I do not dispute, but the fact that you try to apply it to every shows you absurd logic.

Phasing through objects is different from Vibrating through objects.

I do prove my points. Here are scans just to prove you wrong.
Stealing speed
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/Wally_Respect3/stealspe.jpg

disturbing the vibration of objects(solid)
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/WallyWestRespect/vibmel.jpg

Messing up the mind/brain
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/Wally_Respect3/spedbraishift.jpg

I'll repeat myself again. STEALING, or absorb powers from someone is not the same as CUTTING the power source off

I don't think I even have to go through how ridiculous you claims are. Like I said before, you claim stupid stuff, I can do it also.
-Wally can BFR Thor differently
-Mess him mind up
-Steal his speed
-Makes him unstable
-Blitz

alternative versions feats ftw

Thor FTW

He has fought little speed demons before...After reaching a hundred punches Thor slams the ground creating a huge force of pure elecricity around himself, Flash circles him while Thor hits the air. Thor may not be able to catch Wally but Flash cant catch him either. Thor instantly teleports out preparing for a more intelligent strike.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Thor instantly teleports out preparing for a more intelligent strike.

Wouldn't that be a self BFR?

Originally posted by the ninjak
Thor FTW

He has fought little speed demons before...After reaching a hundred punches Thor slams the ground creating a huge force of pure elecricity around himself, Flash circles him while Thor hits the air. Thor may not be able to catch Wally but Flash cant catch him either. Thor instantly teleports out preparing for a more intelligent strike.

LOL. Flash can't catch Thor. That is comedy.

Its a stalemate

But if Thor can stop time then then when he returns Wally is screwed. Wally needs to gain momentum to go through time.

Originally posted by snyper1982
LOL. Flash can't catch Thor. That is comedy.


Yeah he is in the air. seeing that its a speedster he teleports out returns stops time and flicks him in the head. Calls Superman to pick his friend up.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thor got his time powers taken away a long time ago last I heard.

Flash can literally move faster than Thor can think. It is no contest IMO. If it were not for the bloodlust, I would give a majority to Thor, but with it, he goes down hard.

Thor can stay airborne and throw Mjolnir at flash.
Flash has a chance if he is able to steal Mjolnir's speed....but that's an if

Originally posted by the ninjak
Yeah he is in the air. seeing that its a speedster he teleports out returns stops time and flicks him in the head. Calls Superman to pick his friend up.

LOL. Do you even know what the flashes powers are? What is to stop him from speed stealing Thor making him a statue? Or the fact that Thor would never get a chance to go airborne even without a speed steal, because he is getting pounded on before he can process a thought, as the flash is just THAT much faster?

Originally posted by Warlord
Thor can stay airborne and throw Mjolnir at flash.
Flash has a chance if he is able to steal Mjolnir's speed....but that's an if

How will he ever GET airborne?

he will say up, up and away...

Awesome logic.

Originally posted by snyper1982
How will he ever GET airborne?

He has fought little speed demons before...After reaching a hundred punches Thor slams the ground creating a huge force of pure elecricity around himself, Flash circles him while Thor hits the air. Thor may not be able to catch Wally but Flash cant catch him either. Thor instantly teleports out preparing for a more intelligent strike.

I dont know how many he can take but he is a war god! It will be like punching steel a thousand times....by then he surrounds himself in electricity.

would the Flash obliterate Supes if he gave him 2 secs?

Originally posted by the ninjak
He has fought little speed demons before...After reaching a hundred punches Thor slams the ground creating a huge force of pure elecricity around himself, Flash circles him while Thor hits the air. Thor may not be able to catch Wally but Flash cant catch him either. Thor instantly teleports out preparing for a more intelligent strike.

I dont know how many he can take but he is a war god! It will be like punching steel a thousand times....by then he surrounds himself in electricity.

would the Flash obliterate Supes if he gave him 2 secs?

If he were bloodlusted? Absolutely, supes goes down 10/10 just like Thor, because he won't be able to touch a bloodlusted Flash. I seriously can't believe you are comparing the flash to "little speed demons". It is like you don't know his powerset at all. He has absolute control over speed.

2 seconds to the flash might as well be two hours...

Originally posted by Warlord
alternative versions feats ftw
Say what?

Originally posted by Juntai
Thor got his time powers taken away a long time ago last I heard. This was after the power were taken away check onedumb's respect thread issue numbers are there

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Say what? LOL so what these are not wallye's own feats

Originally posted by DarkOdin
LOL so what these are not wallye's own feats
It was Wally, just not The Wally

Originally posted by snyper1982
LOL. Do you even know what the flashes powers are? What is to stop him from speed stealing Thor making him a statue? Or the fact that Thor would never get a chance to go airborne even without a speed steal, because he is getting pounded on before he can process a thought, as the flash is just THAT much faster?

Thor has resisted the molecular motion in his body being frozen which is basically what speed stealing is so that is not likely to work. Of course if its bloodlusted he still loses regardless.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Thor has resisted the molecular motion in his body being frozen which is basically what speed stealing is so that is not likely to work. Of course if its bloodlusted he still loses regardless.
I really don't think that matters. Wally has been able to steal the speed from Amazo who at that time had his power

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I really don't think that matters. Wally has been able to steal the speed from Amazo who at that time had his power

Not the same. Thor has actually resisted the such an attack before. Amazo obviously wasnt as skilled with wallys power (he has been blitzed by wonder woman while possesing wallys powers) as Wally himself and so couldnt/didnt resist it.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Not the same. Thor has actually resisted the such an attack before. Amazo obviously wasnt as skilled with wallys power (he has been blitzed by wonder woman while possesing wallys powers) as Wally himself and so couldnt/didnt resist it.
Imo, you don't have to have perfect control, just nice control something Amazo excels in. Every times Amazo comes the powers, he uses it better then the original user. I don't see why it no the case this time.

Besides that, this is the speed force, not the same as some villain trying to steal Thor's speed.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Imo, you don't have to have perfect control, just nice control something Amazo excels in. Every times Amazo comes the powers, he uses it better then the original user. I don't see why it no the case this time.

Besides that, this is the speed force, not the same as some villain trying to steal Thor's speed.

Having perfect control or what have u is niether here nor there. The crux here is that Amazos skill in the use of flashes powers was inferior to flash (as i said getting lasso blitzed by wonderwoman despite flashes speed is another example of this) and so it would make sense that flash would be able to still affect him due to superior skill in the use of his own powers.

Further this has to do with the speedforce being applied in order to create a particular effect. An effect which thor has shown to be resistant to. Simply saying "this is the speedforce" holds absolutely no weight here.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thor got his time powers taken away a long time ago last I heard.
Yes.

Only Odin/King Thor can manipulate time nowadays. Regular Thor's been without that ability for a long time, like you said.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Thor has resisted the molecular motion in his body being frozen which is basically what speed stealing is so that is not likely to work. Of course if its bloodlusted he still loses regardless. Originally posted by Naija boy
Not the same. Thor has actually resisted the such an attack before. Amazo obviously wasnt as skilled with wallys power (he has been blitzed by wonder woman while possesing wallys powers) as Wally himself and so couldnt/didnt resist it. Originally posted by Juntai

Even full chrono suspension doesn't work on Superman.
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/891/28797729xc4na9.jpg
Ice even overtook his body as his molecules stopped, when his being was put in a chrono-stasis.


http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/kadabracwal6.jpg

Thor's hammer can absorb kinetic energy, so he should theoretically be able to remove all of Wally's speed. But seeing as Wally once absorbed the kinetic energy of an entire planet (right?) I guess it'd be hard to override his control.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Thor's hammer can absorb kinetic energy, so he should theoretically be able to remove all of Wally's speed. But seeing as Wally once absorbed the kinetic energy of an entire planet (right?) I guess it'd be hard to override his control. Given that he's mainlined to the source of all kinetic energy in the universe, I'd wager on Wally in that scenario.

But Thor isnt fast just durable on an top tier god level.
My knowledge on the Flash is limited .....these super speed fights are so common with DC characters.

I just believe that Thors biology would allow him to do at least one THING.
Flashes Speed Force sounds like a universal ability that has elevated him to Godhood.....yet Thor is already a war god who has seen it all before! He has hit Superman! So if he can hit the air he is sweet.

Well, I'm not debating who would win, I've just been filling in misinformation. I can rarely talk up Marvel characters as my knowledge of them is limited drastically by comparison, though I've read a ton of story arcs from Marvel over time, I don't have the ownership of many of them to read and reread them. My DC history knowledge though is only rivaled by a handful of people in these parts.

andd a lot of people think Thor would have problems, great or small depending on who you talk to, but problems none-the-less- with Superman's speed. Who happens to be one of the faster written characters in comics.

Something similar happens here, except . . .there's fast, and then there's blood-lusted Wally's version of fast.

Originally posted by Juntai
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/kadabracwal6.jpg

Problem with that is, Flash has a connection to the source of all Kinetic energy in DC, the speedforce, and hence regardless of supermans initial resistance, flash should still be able to take his speed given that he flash is connected to the actual source of KE in DC. Hence the superman example isnt applicable to thor whose KE isnt sourced from the speedforce.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Problem with that is, Flash has a connection to the source of all Kinetic energy in DC, the speedforce, and hence regardless of supermans initial resistance, flash should still be able to take his speed given that he flash is connected to the actual source of KE in DC. Hence the superman example isnt applicable to thor whose KE isnt sourced from the speedforce. I believe you tried to pull this crap arguement before. In a neutral universe, as is created here, Flash's powers will work just the same.

lol.

"Thor can resist Flash stealing his kinetic energy because he survived something similar!"
"Superman overcame the same type of tactic, but that didn't stop Flash from stealing his speed."
"But Flash can't steal kinetic energy!"

Originally posted by Juntai
I believe you tried to pull this crap arguement before. In a neutral universe, as is created here, Flash's powers will work just the same.

lol, and even then this was the same bullshit and poorly thought out response u gave without properly understanding the argument. Indeed flashes powers will still work the same and hence he will be able to still steal kinetic energy from marvel characters.... However the fact that speedforce is the source of KE in DC is what gives him supreme control over the DC characters KE. The same cannot be said for thor who as well as being resistant to such attacks in general does NOT get his KE from the speedforce.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Seriously?facepalm
Misrepresenting other peoples arguments is truly a great skill.lmao Nothing has been misinterpreted, that is exactly what your argument was. Once it was nullified with a direct scan of showing Superman overcoming something that, I might add, is even more impressive than the instance you're reffering to with Thor, you tried to change the argument and thus the discussion into the speedforce not having anything to do with Thor and thus this tactic not being applicable.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yes.

Only Odin/King Thor can manipulate time nowadays. Regular Thor's been without that ability for a long time, like you said.

The new respect thread shows Thor doing time control after the powers of time control were taken away

Your original counter-argument to the speed-stealing tactic, and what you were discussing with Juntai, was based on the scan of Thor reisting something that, as Juntai showed, Superman did too, and he still was unable to resist the speed stealing. Thus you lost that argument. Then you tried to redirect the discussion twoards Thor not being connected to the speed force, unlike Supes, and thus not having the same effect. You should've been more clear with the "Hence the superman example isnt applicable to thor whose KE isnt sourced from the speedforce." since it implies what I said. And you should have sticked with that because your current stance one is even worse. You're saying that all of the Flash's speed-steal feats are irrelevant to Thor because it happened in his own Universe, where there is the Speedforce, and so even if the characters have feats identical to the ones being used for Thor resisting this tactic, and still not stopping their speed being stolen, it's irrelevant.

There are quite a few problems with that. You're trying to bypass the 'Neutral Universe' rule by trying to attain the middle ground "Yeah, he can still steal speed but Thor isn't connected to the speedforce so it wouldn't work the same!". But there isn't a middle ground. Flash gets his powers from the speedforce. This allows him to steal kinetic energy. Either you're saying that Thor (and characters from the MU) aren't connected to the speedforce and as a consequence he won't be able to steal their kinetic energy -which you apparently didn't- or we go by the neutral universe rule, and thus his abilities work to the fullest against any character-which you didn't aswell-. Pulling arbitrary "His powers work on Thor, but since he isn't connected to the speedforce.. it won't work like on the others!" stances is laughable, but when you run out of arguments, what can you do, right ?

Walls of text, how I love them.

Restating everything I said is wrong with your own stance doesn't help it. Surprising, I know. It does seem to work for certain posters.
This doesn't seem to sink in. Or better yet, you don't want it to sink in. Let's just take this into kindergarden steps.

How does Wally steal kinetic energy ?

Supes is a humanoid whos physical and mental attributes have been multiplied due to a yellow sun.
Thor is a god.
Supes is vunerable to forces of Thor's nature being magic.
I could argue that when Wally tries to absorb Thor's electricity, Thor will just aborb it back!
and any damage Wally tries to apply to Thor wouldnt have much effect.
If Supes can repel Flashes absorbtion then Thor can do it easily.
Seeming that flashes power is based on absorbing energy to fuel his speedforce Thor may laugh this off.

Originally posted by Starscream M
it surprised me because everyone gives flash edge over Thor but don't give superman edge over thor even though superman is virtually as fast as flash Good point. I never noticed that.

I dont see the same argument for surfer because surfer doesnt really speed blitz
Surfer does blitz but not like Superman or Flash. He is not a punch-throwing infighter. He is a bolt-hurling distance-fighter or bullrusher done, eg, when attacking a fleet of ships. And because he blitzes this way, it's assumed this would be no good against a single, human-sized opponent.

With CIS off, there's no reason why Surfer couldn't zip around a foe like an electron 'round a nucleus, hurling blasts like fists from all directions.

CIS on, of course, is business as usual.

If stealing kinetic energy is something that Wally is able to do due to the speedforce, and neither Thor nor anybody else from Marvel is connected to it, how would he be able to steal Thor's energy in the first place, like you're saying he does ?

Or, it seems you're implying that kinetic energy stealing is not dependent on the opponent being connected to the speedforce and, in that case, how is it relevant whether or not Superman, the guy who did the same thing you use as an argument for Thor and still couldn't stop speed-stealing, is from DC/connected to the speedforce or not ?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Im saying that stealing kinetic energy is an ability which the speedforce gives Wally and hence not limited to only those who gain their KE from the SF.

The reason that superman being connected to the speedforce is important however is because due to that connection Wally had an added advantage in regards to stealing supes speed (his speed force connection). A flash's greater connection/control of the speedforce would sensibly be able to overide the resistance to speedstealing of a character whose KE is sourced from the speed force itself. TO summarize,

The speed force gives flash an ability: Kinetic energy stealing
That ability can be used on beings with kinetic energy. (regardless of source)
However against beings who actually obtain their KE from the SF, flash has an added advantage due to is connection and manipulation of the speedforce, since in regards to them the SF is the supreme control regarding kinetic energy.
That's totally Bullshit
Never heard of such a thing

Makes total sense to me....
Flash absorbs kinetic energy more from other speedsters around him.
Thor is'nt fast therefore nothing to absorb but Thor's lightning...
Thor absorbs all energy into his hammer...
Slower Flash = Thor hitting ground to create electicity storm.
Thor hits the air.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Makes total sense to me....
Flash absorbs kinetic energy more from other speedsters around him.
Thor is'nt fast therefore nothing to absorb but Thor's lightning...
Thor absorbs all energy into his hammer...
Slower Flash = Thor hitting ground to create electicity storm.
Thor hits the air. You don't need to be fast for flash to absorb kinetic energy he has done to slower characters

It's not like he will need to steal Thor's speed to win this battle.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Makes total sense to me....
Flash absorbs kinetic energy more from other speedsters around him.
Thor is'nt fast therefore nothing to absorb but Thor's lightning...
Thor absorbs all energy into his hammer...
Slower Flash = Thor hitting ground to create electicity storm.
Thor hits the air.
He can steal speed from beings that don't move like he did to Amazo

Originally posted by xJLxKing
That's totally Bullshit
Never heard of such a thing

*Sigh* please dont even bother to comment. ive never seen flash steal speed from someone not connected to the speedforce. This is a hypothetical matchup in which flash is facing someone that is not connected to the speedforce (which has never happened before). All we can do is bring forth solutions in which the site rules are applicable to both characters. My argument is that middle ground.
Further there was no bullshit in that post. The speedforce is the source and supreme control of KE in the DC universe. It isnt in marvel.

Originally posted by kgkg
You don't need to be fast for flash to absorb kinetic energy he has done to slower characters

It's not like he will need to steal Thor's speed to win this battle.

Just stating how Flash can absorb Supe's natural speed into his Speed Force abilities.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He can steal speed from beings that don't move like he did to Amazo

Yeah but not enough to stop a God from hitting the ground

Originally posted by Naija boy
*Sigh* please dont even bother to comment. ive never seen flash steal speed from someone not connected to the speedforce. This is a hypothetical matchup in which flash is facing someone that is not connected to the speedforce (which has never happened before). All we can do is bring forth solutions in which the site rules are applicable to both characters. My argument is that middle ground.
You dismissing the rules yourself. There is this thing called neutral universe rules.


Amazo had the power of a couple of JLA member and even he coult do shit. Stop being bias

Ahh I will say of this thread don't know why I'm always arguing against Thor.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You dismissing the rules yourself. There is this thing called neutral universe rules.


Try actually reading the argument before making foolish comments. Neutral universe rules mean that the character will operate as he does in his own universe i.e Flash will still have the ability to steal KE granted to him by the speedforce but the SF wont be the source or supreme control of Thors KE.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You dismissing the rules yourself. There is this thing called neutral universe rules.

I agree!



Amazo had the power of a couple of JLA member and even he coult do shit. Stop being bias


Just working off average Physics...

Speedster who can tap into the speedforce.
To attain certain power levels must reach certain speeds.
Time travel requires Flash to increase and strain speeds.
Speedster gains added momentum when around another being who can tap the Speedforce.
Thor cannot tap Speedforce allthough once did!
Flash Runs in raged expecting to gain momentum.
Doesnt receive any.
Flash punches Thor 2127 times before......
Thor hits the ground creating Energy Storm.
Flash circles Thor not being able to touch him.
Thor hits the air after feeling hundreds of taps hit his body.
Thor watches quick red streak run around the field.
Thor teleports out for stratagem.

STALEMATE

Self bfr

Originally posted by Naija boy
*Sigh* please dont even bother to comment. ive never seen flash steal speed from someone not connected to the speedforce. This is a hypothetical matchup in which flash is facing someone that is not connected to the speedforce (which has never happened before). All we can do is bring forth solutions in which the site rules are applicable to both characters. My argument is that middle ground.
Further there was no bullshit in that post. The speedforce is the source and supreme control of KE in the DC universe. It isnt in marvel. that doesn't mean he can't, he's never stated they need to be connected to the speedforce for him to steal their speed. The reason he hasn't (maybe he has I haven't read every issue of flash) is because he's faster than most people that aren't connected to the speed force and wouldn't need to, against thor it is a completely viable tactic. The last part of your post doesn't make much sense just because the speedforce doesn't exist in marvel doesn't mean it wouldn't work against thor.

Originally posted by Trackz
that doesn't mean he can't, he's never stated they need to be connected to the speedforce for him to steal their speed. The reason he hasn't (maybe he has I haven't read every issue of flash) is because he's faster than most people that aren't connected to the speed force and wouldn't need to, against thor it is a completely viable tactic. The last part of your post doesn't make much sense just because the speedforce doesn't exist in marvel doesn't mean it wouldn't work against thor.
Don't waste your time

Originally posted by Trackz
that doesn't mean he can't, he's never stated they need to be connected to the speedforce for him to steal their speed. The reason he hasn't (maybe he has I haven't read every issue of flash) is because he's faster than most people that aren't connected to the speed force and wouldn't need to, against thor it is a completely viable tactic. The last part of your post doesn't make much sense just because the speedforce doesn't exist in marvel doesn't mean it wouldn't work against thor.

facepalm. The speedforce is the source of all KE in DC , so hence all DC characters get their KE from it . Thats the "connection" im referring to, not in the same sense that flash is connected to it. Further please actually read and attempt to grasp my entire argument before jumping in head on with irrelevant responses

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Don't waste your time



Whoa

Even if Marvel Characters are'nt connected to the SpeedForce (which I believe they are) There is none for Flash to take even if he tried.

Why not?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Why not?

Because he is a high level Asgardian God whos power is in Endurance and raw power! He isn't a Speedster! Even through Flash will gain some momentum while Thor hits the ground...it wont be much.

Oh god. Did Quan hit you or something?

Originally posted by the ninjak
Because he is a high level Asgardian God whos power is in Endurance and raw power! He isn't a Speedster! Even through Flash will gain some momentum while Thor hits the ground...it wont be much.

Flash 6/10 (I'm sorry thor).

Originally posted by leonidas



I understand...... but all I am fighting for is the idea that Thor can at least hit ground when Wally makes his strike.

The whole absorbing Speedforce ideas originated from other sources.

Although I have seen it in recent trades of Flash.

Originally posted by carver9
Flash 6/10 (I'm sorry thor).

Thor will not forgive thee. uhuh

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor will not forgive thee. uhuh

frusty

Every time I see the FLash run I see lightning on his heels!
Thor can soak that!
Hit the Ground and fly!

Originally posted by carver9
frusty



I think it's pretty even though, too.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


I think it's pretty even though, too.

LOL, Yeah, when it comes to certain speedster, yes, sometimes I give thor the advantage because he has proven that he can keep up with high speed beings but people like the flash and runner; naah. I do think that he has enough power and damage soak to pull some wins though.

Originally posted by the ninjak
I understand...... but all I am fighting for is the idea that Thor can at least hit ground when Wally makes his strike.

The whole absorbing Speedforce ideas originated from other sources.

Although I have seen it in recent trades of Flash.
He did it against Amazo, bullets, other speedster, villaians, cars..etc. What more do you need. He even did it to AM

Originally posted by Naija boy
Thor has resisted the molecular motion in his body being frozen which is basically what speed stealing is so that is not likely to work. Of course if its bloodlusted he still loses regardless.

That is not how the flashes speed stealing works though. Flash could speed steal anyone do to the speed force. But anyways, we agree so it is moot.

Originally posted by the ninjak
But Thor isnt fast just durable on an top tier god level.
My knowledge on the Flash is limited .....these super speed fights are so common with DC characters.

I just believe that Thors biology would allow him to do at least one THING.
Flashes Speed Force sounds like a universal ability that has elevated him to Godhood.....yet Thor is already a war god who has seen it all before! He has hit Superman! So if he can hit the air he is sweet.

If it weren't bloodlusted, I would agree, however the bloodlust gives flash a huge advantage. Like I said earlier, pretty much any herald leveler is going down hard against a bloodlusted flash.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Problem with that is, Flash has a connection to the source of all Kinetic energy in DC, the speedforce, and hence regardless of supermans initial resistance, flash should still be able to take his speed given that he flash is connected to the actual source of KE in DC. Hence the superman example isnt applicable to thor whose KE isnt sourced from the speedforce.

The speed force governs all speed. He can steal speed from bullets and other inanimate objects. Even without the speed steal Thor still goes down hard in this scenario.

Originally posted by snyper1982
The speed force governs all speed. He can steal speed from bullets and other inanimate objects. Even without the speed steal Thor still goes down hard in this scenario.

I know that it governs all speed in DC. It was infact crucial to my argument. and thor losing was never in doubt.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Try actually reading the argument before making foolish comments. Neutral universe rules mean that the character will operate as he does in his own universe i.e Flash will still have the ability to steal KE granted to him by the speedforce but the SF wont be the source or supreme control of Thors KE.

That is a slippery slope. If that is the case, maybe Marvel's magic works differently than DC's, and means it has no effect on flash at all. Or since DC doesn't have the power cosmic, matter manip or energy blasts coming from the power cosmic wielding character won't work on DC characters... Where does it stop?

Originally posted by the ninjak
I understand...... but all I am fighting for is the idea that Thor can at least hit ground when Wally makes his strike.

The whole absorbing Speedforce ideas originated from other sources.

Although I have seen it in recent trades of Flash.

I seriously think you just don't comprehend how fast the flash is. Thor isn't going to have a chance to do anything. He is going to get IMP'd until he is KO'ed before he processes a thought.

Originally posted by snyper1982
That is a slippery slope. If that is the case, maybe Marvel's magic works differently than DC's, and means it has no effect on flash at all. Or since DC doesn't have the power cosmic, matter manip or energy blasts coming from the power cosmic wielding character won't work on DC characters... Where does it stop?

No u arent getting my argument at all. Im not suggesting that just because the speedforce isnt in marvel, speedstealing wont work on marvel characters. Not at all. Ive actually mentioned already that flash will still be able to steal speed/KE from MU characters. Hence ur power cosmic analogy is inapplicable. The post u quoted was an isolated response addressing the implications of a particular rule.

Originally posted by Naija boy
No u arent getting my argument at all. Im not suggesting that just because the speedforce isnt in marvel, speedstealing wont work on marvel characters. Not at all. Ive actually mentioned already that flash will still be able to steal speed/KE from MU characters. Hence ur power cosmic analogy is inapplicable. The post u quoted was an isolated response addressing the implications of a particular rule.

So I don't get why Thor would be able to resist a speed steal from flash based on a feat, that superman has a similar feat of, yet supes could not resist the speed steal. Where is the logic in that?

Originally posted by DarkOdin
LOL so what these are not wallye's own feats

another timeline

Originally posted by the ninjak

I could argue that when Wally tries to absorb Thor's electricity, Thor will just aborb it back!
and any damage Wally tries to apply to Thor wouldnt have much effect.
If Supes can repel Flashes absorbtion then Thor can do it easily.
Seeming that flashes power is based on absorbing energy to fuel his speedforce Thor may laugh this off. wtf

I think what Ninjak is trying to convey, is that when two people who can manipulate a source of energy meet, they stalemate. Such as two fire manipulators. Wally can absorb kinetic energy, so can Thor. Therefore, neither would be able to absorb it from one-another.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I think what Ninjak is trying to convey, is that when two people who can manipulate a source of energy meet, they stalemate. Such as two fire manipulators. Wally can absorb kinetic energy, so can Thor. Therefore, neither would be able to absorb it from one-another. The whole post I quoted was ****ed up though.
Flash doesn't have to fuel the speedforce by absorbing energy.
Superman never resisted Flash's attempt at a speedsteal.
Why would flash be trying to steal energy from bolts of lightning?

It's pretty clear he doesn't belong in this conversation, from what I gather of his various responses.

Originally posted by Juntai
The whole post I quoted was ****ed up though.
Flash doesn't have to fuel the speedforce by absorbing energy.
Superman never resisted Flash's attempt at a speedsteal.
Why would flash be trying to steal energy from bolts of lightning?

It's pretty clear he doesn't belong in this conversation, from what I gather of his various responses.
Yeah it's....hard to look at

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Yeah it's....hard to look at Props for trying to decipher it though.

Originally posted by snyper1982
So I don't get why Thor would be able to resist a speed steal from flash based on a feat, that superman has a similar feat of, yet supes could not resist the speed steal. Where is the logic in that?

Supermans KE is sourced from the SF and governed by the SF. Hence regardless of his initial resistance to these type of atacks, Flash is empowered by the force that supremely governs supermans KE and would be able to absorb it. Thor on the other hand isnt under the dominion of the SF and has resistance to such attacks and, therefore the added benefit of the speed forces position as the source and governing force regarding KE in DC which gives him near supreme control over those characters KE regardless of their resistance to similar attacks by other characters, would not be present in thors case.

Originally posted by Juntai
The whole post I quoted was ****ed up though.
Flash doesn't have to fuel the speedforce by absorbing energy.
Superman never resisted Flash's attempt at a speedsteal.
Why would flash be trying to steal energy from bolts of lightning?

It's pretty clear he doesn't belong in this conversation, from what I gather of his various responses.
Wait I thought Flash had some kind of issues stealing Supes's speed though, didn't he say it would destroy the planet or something like that?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait I thought Flash had some kind of issues stealing Supes's speed though, didn't he say it would destroy the planet or something like that? 2nd post on page 5.
But yes, when he was chasing Wally, he said Superman flying at that speed suddenly having his momentum stolen would destroy a huge chunk of the map.