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In a straight physical battle, Cloud will be fighting the five aspects of Warcraft. Malygos, Nozdormu, Alexstrasza, Ysera and Neltharion.
Malygos pre-insanity, Alexstrasza post-Grim Batol, Ysera Malorne-postmortem and then Neltharion pre-Cataclysm.

Strictly physical encounter and it take place in a large forest. Cloud is aware of Neltharion's armor and he is aware of their powers, but not aware that the dragons just like him can not use any powers.

I guess Cloud would be able to inflict minor injuries before eventually getting crushed to death... or eaten.

Cloud has showed pretty awesome moves and the Aspects while big and strong are limited when it comes to agility. You don't think he would do better?

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Cloud has showed pretty awesome moves and the Aspects while big and strong are limited when it comes to agility. You don't think he would do better?

Yes, but I don't remember Cloud showing any particular awesome speed feats. Agility alone won't be enough to dodge a paw of a massive dragon coming at you. I also remember reading in one of the Warcraft books that dragons are much more agile and nimble than they appear.

It's just a matter of time before Cloud gets unlucky/tired and subsequently maimed.

Yeah, size doesn't always mean clumsiness, especially not in the case of dragons which are a common favourite in fiction. A powerful aspect is even less likely to be a lumbering klutz, and Cloud's best feat against anythign of comparable size was *bonking* bahamut, causing it to fall, he didn't knock it down, it just sort of fell, with no visible damage to it whatsoever.

Imho, he doesn't get far at all.

He is fighting them all at once. He could use their required space against them.

You... don't like Cloud much, do you? From my understanding of their physical power, which I admit is limmited, he has no chance whatsoever.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
He is fighting them all at once. He could use their required space against them.

The Aspects are incredibly intelligent beings. They surely would not let Cloud have that advantage: one of them would go and take down Cloud while others watch.

The Aspects piled on Neltharion when they fought him during Day of the Dragon. They were not exactly reluctant to get their asses handed to them there.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
The Aspects piled on Neltharion when they fought him during Day of the Dragon. They were not exactly reluctant to get their asses handed to them there.

Yes, but Deathwing was a much greater threat and a much larger target.

I'm with AG. From everything that's been posted about Deathwing, he's simply not comparable to Cloud.

I suppose. I was just trying to put a fight together that would end up epic, regardless of outcome. The classic one great against many great ones.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I suppose. I was just trying to put a fight together that would end up epic, regardless of outcome. The classic one great against many great ones.

It would have been so much more epic had you allowed Aspects their full powers.

Nozdormu or Ysera full powered? There would be nothing epic with that

There'd be a nepic slaughter!

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
Nozdormu or Ysera full powered? There would be nothing epic with that

Well, would you rather see an ant simply crushed the good old boring way or go out in a flurry of explosions and shit?

I must admit, enraged Ysera was a sight to see. Fiction has few moments that can be compared.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I must admit, enraged Ysera was a sight to see. Fiction has few moments that can be compared.

You mean in the War of the Ancients book trilogy? Didn't leave any strong impression on me. Come to think of it, neither did the books themselves.

When Malorne died. Ysera took out the entire invasion army by herself with a thought.

You realise Bahamut was flying up at the time that Cloud hit him, he completely reversed the acceleration of Bahamut. Gravity has nothing to do with that feat.

He has also shown to be able to leap very far quickly and to be able to block massive claws.

He would be running around on them, unless thier claws can reach behind them they would have to attack him while he was on one of them.

Assuming he can run on the semi-ethereal Nozdormu, the burning hot Deathwing (magma for blood?) and the fully ethereeal Ysera. Although I doubt he can run upside down, most sources suggest Warcraft Dragons are far more numble and quick than the slow and lumbering Bahamut.

Ysera can't do anything if ethereal except cheer the other dragons on, semi-ethereal implies a bit of physicalness.

It's not like he needs to run on them or all of them he can leap up and smash through thier necks.

I am not sure what being updside down has to do with anything, Cloud can fall a very far way due to his awesome falling technique.

Semi-ethereal e.g. made up of time and sands that Cloud could not step on. it means that if he attempts to jump on her, she goes semi-ethereal and he falls to his death.

Errr, well you know, being upside down means he is running nowhere, he is falling down.....only to be eaten or smashed by one of the dragons. Breaking him asunder.

Cloud has very good fighting technique while in the air.

He wouldn't fall to his death .

Cloud cant fly so sure he would fall to his death.... but no your right I guess he may not fall to his death as its likely he will be eaten or smashed by one of the dragons before he reaches the ground.

Lol, Cloud has fallen massive distances without hurting himself. Not to mention he wouldn't get himself into a position he couldn't get out of such as falling to his death.

Lol, he can see dragons coming to him, he can block and run around them as they try and eat or smash him.

As I said, he fights very very well in the air.

Thats a bit of a copout, its not really his choice is it what position his in, the dragons have the field here.

Show me Cloud blocking a large dragon?

You are thinking about the fight as if the dragons are the only ones able to move.

He blocks Bahamut on several occasions.

Well they are half the time, their larger, faster and stronger than Bahamut which is likely Clouds main experiance in the matter and are far more intelligent. Fact of the matter is they can fly and manouver in ways Cloud could have no hope of comparing to.

He is dependant on them as ground to walk and move on yet assuming their just going to give him a nice flat motionless surface for him to run about on is a mistake, they will make it hell for him to stand and once he falls, he is done for unless one of the dragons just happens to be within his reach as he falls.

Can you show this please.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well they are half the time, their larger, faster and stronger than Bahamut which is likely Clouds main experiance in the matter and are far more intelligent.

They can't manouver faster then Cloud can react to, he has shown that he can adapt to a lot of situations. If they flip upside down he could smash his sword into the dragon and hang on, or leap off and land on another dragon or fall off and land on the ground.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Fact of the matter is they can fly and manouver in ways Cloud could have no hope of comparing to.

He doesn't need to compare to them in terms of flight speed. He can react to them, such as when he placed his swords such that he could stand on them when versing Sephiroth, he can adapt to situations in the air very well even though he can't fly.


Originally posted by Burning thought
He is dependant on them as ground to walk and move on yet assuming their just going to give him a nice flat motionless surface for him to run about on is a mistake, they will make it hell for him to stand and once he falls, he is done for unless one of the dragons just happens to be within his reach as he falls.


He is not, they also need to defeat him. As I have said he has fallen long distances and survived. Cloud has shown that he fights very very well against flying enemies as he can adapt.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Can you show this please.

I'll show you if you show me.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Ysera can't do anything if ethereal except cheer the other dragons on, semi-ethereal implies a bit of physicalness.

It's not like he needs to run on them or all of them he can leap up and smash through thier necks.

I am not sure what being updside down has to do with anything, Cloud can fall a very far way due to his awesome falling technique.

You underestimate the ethereal power of Ysera. In the issue "The Inner Beast", Varian and Broll come across a green dragon who ultilize the ethereal technique for combat. When Wrynn swung at it, the sword passed through. After having gone through the green dragon and his swing still had momentum, the green dragon slapped Wrynn and sent him across the room.

Broll said that the green dragon was physical only when it wanted it to, the technique controlled by its own will.

Each of the aspects are simply to much of a challenge.

Nozdormu: Can still see every move Cloud make before he does it.
Ysera: Can turn Ethereal
Deathwing: Adamantium Plating and generally badass and likes to fight dirty, slaughtered a red dragon while being restricted.
Alex: Her attacks hurted Deathwing and she wasn't being significantly damaged by him.
Malygos: Withstood a blast from the Demon Soul that killed all the other blue Dragons present, equal in every sense of the word in the strength depart in regards to Deathwing imo.

To put it short, Cloud is going to get squashed, especially if the Aspects attack together, their telepathic communication is quite fast.

Originally posted by Rapidash
You underestimate the ethereal power of Ysera. In the issue "The Inner Beast", Varian and Broll come across a green dragon who ultilize the ethereal technique for combat. When Wrynn swung at it, the sword passed through. After having gone through the green dragon and his swing still had momentum, the green dragon slapped Wrynn and sent him across the room.

Broll said that the green dragon was physical only when it wanted it to, the technique controlled by its own will.

It's a non-issue, Cloud could still dodge or block the attack.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Each of the aspects are simply to much of a challenge.

Nozdormu: Can still see every move Cloud make before he does it.
Ysera: Can turn Ethereal
Deathwing: Adamantium Plating and generally badass and likes to fight dirty, slaughtered a red dragon while being restricted.
Alex: Her attacks hurted Deathwing and she wasn't being significantly damaged by him.
Malygos: Withstood a blast from the Demon Soul that killed all the other blue Dragons present, equal in every sense of the word in the strength depart in regards to Deathwing imo.

To put it short, Cloud is going to get squashed, especially if the Aspects attack together, their telepathic communication is quite fast.

Nozdormu: Coolio.

Ysera: Great, still wouldn't be able to hit Cloud.

Deathwing: Awesomesauce.

Alex: Wow.

Malygos: I see.


None of those feats showed how Cloud would get sqaushed, they couldn't possibly attack Cloud together as he is a fairly small target and they are fairly big.

Cloud is not durable so they would prob just have to scrape him with a fly by slash of a tail or something to crush every bone in his body.

Also based on feats Cloud could probably do very little damage to any of them, especially those that are not completly physical.

Deathwing could just bodyslam Cloud. I haven't seen any strength feats that indicate he would be able to take Deathwing out, even should he hit.

But you speak of Cloud as if he is Wally West. When has he shown this astonishing speed?

FALLLLSE
Seen the scene. Cloud *bonked* bahumut, without even scratching it's scales, and it was stunned for a moment, and gravity took over. It fell. Cloud did not reverse it's momentum at all. It fell. (that's what happens when you're surprised and stop flapping your wings.)

Also: Cloud did not "block" as you imply. He took advantage of air providing minimal resistance while the dragon pushed him back with it's strikes. Yes, he used his sword to intercept those, but it's so godamn big I could use it to stop a hail of bullet fire by standing behind it. So, the dragon pushed him, and he was smart enoguh to let it push him by his sword. This is not a feat, because a normal human could do that. (minus lifting the stupid big sword.)

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
In a straight physical battle, Cloud will be fighting the five aspects of Warcraft. Malygos, Nozdormu, Alexstrasza, Ysera and Neltharion.
Malygos pre-insanity, Alexstrasza post-Grim Batol, Ysera Malorne-postmortem and then Neltharion pre-Cataclysm.

Strictly physical encounter and it take place in a large forest. Cloud is aware of Neltharion's armor and he is aware of their powers, but not aware that the dragons just like him can not use any powers. We all win because your sig was right below the OP. Now where'd I put that lotion...

Also with the Cloud scene, I do remember Bahamut just pushing him back the whole time during their first bout, but Cloud did knock him down with a single blow in the end. This was before Bahamut decided to fly up and charge the flare.

Originally posted by K1ll3r

Nozdormu: Coolio.

Ysera: Great, still wouldn't be able to hit Cloud.

Deathwing: Awesomesauce.

Alex: Wow.

Malygos: I see.


None of those feats showed how Cloud would get sqaushed, they couldn't possibly attack Cloud together as he is a fairly small target and they are fairly big.

You obviously don't understand that it's these things taken into consideration, that makes this "battle" a complete stomp, where will Cloud hide or do for that matter that Nozdormu can't immidiately inform his fellow aspects about?

You are right five humans can't step on a ant all together, but the same scenario also require only one human to crush the ant, same scenario here. Cloud might be small, but he is not smaller then Rhonin(average human) that Deathwing was easily capable of target and hold without any effort and could have killed him just as easily.

What exactly do you think Cloud is up against? Five overgrown lizards?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Cloud is not durable so they would prob just have to scrape him with a fly by slash of a tail or something to crush every bone in his body.

Also based on feats Cloud could probably do very little damage to any of them, especially those that are not completly physical.

Cloud would jump onto or over the tail, or leap out of the way of the bodyslam.

Originally posted by Rapidash
Deathwing could just bodyslam Cloud. I haven't seen any strength feats that indicate he would be able to take Deathwing out, even should he hit.

But you speak of Cloud as if he is Wally West. When has he shown this astonishing speed?

Cloud could dodge the body slam.

I don't know who Wally West is But Cloud has leaped very large distances in a few seconds, coupled with his insane reaction speed...

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
*Bunch of stuff*

FALLLLSE, nice attempt at trolling though.

Originally posted by Utrigita
You obviously don't understand that it's these things taken into consideration, that makes this "battle" a complete stomp, where will Cloud hide or do for that matter that Nozdormu can't immidiately inform his fellow aspects about?

You are right five humans can't step on a ant all together, but the same scenario also require only one human to crush the ant, same scenario here. Cloud might be small, but he is not smaller then Rhonin(average human) that Deathwing was easily capable of target and hold without any effort and could have killed him just as easily.

What exactly do you think Cloud is up against? Five overgrown lizards?

*sigh* Why would he need to hide?

Deathwing attempts to bodyslam Cloud, Cloud leaps out of the way into Nozdormu, Nozdormu attempts to swipe at him Cloud blocks and lands a fair way away, Cloud leaps up onto Alex, attempting to eat him and starts smashing it's head, Alex twists around and flies up, Cloud runs around, jumping to keep balanced on the dragon while continualling hitting it...ect etc etc.

Yes, I think that. Obviously I don't know anything about these dragons 'cause I haven't played any Warcraft game or have all the Warcraft books.

I see you have no counterpoint to my argument.

Also, for all his insane reaction time, cloud /does/ get shot in A.C.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Cloud could dodge the body slam.

I don't know who Wally West is But Cloud has leaped very large distances in a few seconds, coupled with his insane reaction speed...

Not if he is to attack him. Cloud needs to be close in order to attack Deathwing and Deathwing can simply use his sheer size, weight and adamantium to make use of that. Out of all the aspects, Deathwing is the smartest. Something that will come in handy in a physical brawl against someone small and limber.

Wally West is Flash from DC Comics.

High reaction speed and traveling long distances in short amounts of time does not change the fact that the laws of physics relatively still apply. When Cloud swing his sword, he is exposed, because you can not dodge an attack and swing at the same time. Not if he wants to hit these guys.

When it comes to jumping long distances, it is one thing to travel in one specific direction and another to use that speed to fight five highly dangerous dragons.
Varian Wrynn move fast enough to elude human perception, but he stood absolutely no chance against a lesser green dragon. Because of the required space in swinging a sword, the green dragon rapidly got the advantage and slapped Varian around like he was nothing.

This video, although the characters are irrelevant, might give you perspective. Speed advantage is only an advantage for as long as it leave the target of the speedster exposed. So Cloud is faster than the aspects. He will only avoid being hit for so long. He will in the end either be forced to concede the fight or he will be hit and eaten.

The aspects can take his hits. He can't take theirs. This battle is theirs basically by default, because he can't do anything against them. He might slay Alexstrasza and Malygos with some luck. Nozdormu will predict everything he does, Ysera is not physical more than she has to and Deathwing has adamantium plating. Cloud is screwed, because faster or not, he lack the capability to beat them even should he outspeed them.

Spite in favor of dragons.

TZ2Cbw-qQlI

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Cloud leaps up onto Alex, attempting to eat him and starts smashing it's head, Alex twists around and flies up, Cloud runs around, jumping to keep balanced on the dragon while continualling hitting it...ect etc etc.

Deathwing come at them at a speed of miles per second, slamming both of them, breaking Alexstrasza as well as Cloud. Nozdormu who predicted this move appear behind them at at least as astonishing speed and grab Cloud before he has had a chance to realize Deathwing cared nothing for Alexstrasza, Nozdormu then crushing him in his paw.

Deathwing and Nozdormu would not hesitate to use their own comrades as weapons, if it is necessary. Should Cloud stay on one target long enough, which he would be required to, Deathwing would simply take advantage of that. Only if it benefits him, however. He would not slam a fellow dragon if it did not give him or Nozdormu a chance to end everything.

Do you think these dragons are big, fat, slowpokes? Deathwing fly faster than human possible to read, as shown in Day of the Dragon.

You seem to forget that while it is strictly physical, Nozdormu can still see the future and Deathwing is still covered in adamantium. Even should Cloud beat the other three dragons, it would be impossible for him to beat those two. Deathwing is smarter than Cloud and Nozdormu knows what Cloud will do before Cloud himself knows it.

Whos that? that robot who can steal powers with the power of hawkgirl? (wings and mace)

AMAZO, or Proffesor Ivo's Android. A nanotechnology robot from Justice League with the power to copy others powers. What it is, is beside the point though. My point in showing it, is that an advantage (Physical or otherwise) only gets you so far if your opponent can take it.
This guy hit Flash, not by speed, but by predicting his course of running (And AMAZO doesn't have future sight). My point in showing, is that Cloud's superior speed will not win him this battle. Not when the dragons can take his hits like it is nothing.

Originally posted by Rapidash
Blarg

Yeah, I think they are big fat slowpokes.

Seriously Cloud has excellent combat situational awareness, do you really think Cloud wouldn't notice Deathwing about to smash Alex? He can see much smaller beings and objects moving at insane speeds such as bullets, Loz and Sephiroth and react to them. Deathwing is not smarter then Cloud in this form of combat.

No I didn't seem to forget that.

But he can swing his sword fast and with a lot of strength, moving off of dragons all the time. Using his agility, swordsmanship and strength Cloud could win this.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
*sigh* Why would he need to hide?

Deathwing attempts to bodyslam Cloud, Cloud leaps out of the way into Nozdormu, Nozdormu attempts to swipe at him Cloud blocks and lands a fair way away, Cloud leaps up onto Alex, attempting to eat him and starts smashing it's head, Alex twists around and flies up, Cloud runs around, jumping to keep balanced on the dragon while continualling hitting it...ect etc etc.

Yes, I think that. Obviously I don't know anything about these dragons 'cause I haven't played any Warcraft game or have all the Warcraft books.


Because that is the only way he is going to survive in the long run. It's quite simpel really.

LoL, first of Deathwing won't attempt to bodyslam his opponent, but given you comment below I'm not surprised that is the best you could come up with. He will try and grap him instead, and since Nozdormu know every single move Cloud is going to make before he makes it, Cloud can't in any way do what you suggest, Nozdormu would inform his fellow aspects the moment Cloud moves in what way they shall attack him in order to Cloud to die within 5 seconds. Beating a guy that know every move you make before you yourself know it is kinda hard to hurt.

To think that Cloud can win against them, supports your statement

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I see you have no counterpoint to my argument.

Also, for all his insane reaction time, cloud /does/ get shot in A.C. Seeing as he doesn't have eyes on the back of his head. haermm

Actually, Cloud got shot in the face, so having eyes in the back of his head wouldn't help his situation at all.

I thought he was referring to when he got shot from behind after the battle with Sephiroth.

But that is a similar example, since he was plagued with geostigma and could barely even move his arm as result, so unless Cloud is plagued with geostigma in a fight..(not implying he wins here nevertheless)

Edit: In other words, in a PIS (plot induced stupidity)-induced situation such as where Cloud is plagued by geostigma, if it acts on him enough, a 6 year old could beat him up.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Actually, Cloud got shot in the face, so having eyes in the back of his head wouldn't help his situation at all.

He saw it coming.

Cloud had his eyes closed when he got shot through the lung area...it only took him a few seconds to recover he had also been stabbed around nine times and he was still alive.

Just sayin'

Originally posted by K1ll3r
He saw it coming.

Cloud had his eyes closed when he got shot through the lung area...it only took him a few seconds to recover he had also been stabbed around nine times and he was still alive.

Just sayin'

Having been stabbed and shot makes him not as impressive as first implied to be. You now trying to lift out his regeneration and durability will not help Cloud, since against these, those durability feat count for nothing.

Like I said, just sayin.

IMO Cloud could take out 2-3 of these dragons before he would get taken down.

If the dragons could only be and do physical things (for example couldn't go ethereal or see the future) and if Cloud could use limit breaks then Cloud would probs win.

I bet if we mathed the velocity of which most of these dragons may move, then take their weight and strength into account we could find out how many PSI they could land a hit with. I am confident that combined with their size and weight, and the fact they have attacked eachother before (deathwing anyway) their bodies could prob take Clouds strikes quite easily without much damage.

Malygos tanked the full power of the Demon Soul without actual injury, the same power that wiped the invading Burning Legion army and the entire Blue flight.

Exactly, then the chances are Cloud will not even be able to damage most here anyway. But we all know this was spite

It was not intended as spite, but the more I read about Cloud's arguments, the less confident I got about him having a chance.

Demon Soul is magical though not physical.

Malygos would have a lot of magical resistance.

There is next to always physical involvement in magical impacts. At least in Warcraft.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
He saw it coming.

Cloud had his eyes closed when he got shot through the lung area...it only took him a few seconds to recover he had also been stabbed around nine times and he was still alive.

Just sayin'

So, he saw it coming, and decided taking a bullet in the eye was the best course of action?
Yeah, wasn't he laying in the lifesteam/healing water stuff when he recovered? I dont think that this is a recovery feat.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
So, he saw it coming, and decided taking a bullet in the eye was the best course of action?
Yeah, wasn't he laying in the lifesteam/healing water stuff when he recovered? I dont think that this is a recovery feat.

Hell, I am willing to say he took it in the eye as his eye was perfectly fine the very next millisecond. The truth is the bullet hit the goggles he was wearing (whether this is because Yazoo didn't actually want to kill Cloud (Zack survived a bullet to the face) or if Cloud actively blocked the bullet with his goggles I don't know), although he did heal from that damage almost straight away.

No that was after he was blown up in a massive explosion on top of everything else.

Question: are the bullets fired from the gunblades in ACC physical or magical in nature? I ask because of the scene at the end, you see Loz and Yazoo with an arm full of materia blasting away. Your opinion?

The bullets are most likely physical by nature, but wouldn't surprise me if the shooter can apply magic to them.

I have never heard of magic being applied to bullets in FF7. The way magic works in FF7 I doubt any of the SHM could have done it unless Sephiroth done it for them.