Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Omicron/FFCharacter/8-squall-c5.jpg

http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_images/H/HA/HAL/HalfGuardian/1156633345_SephirothDisplay3.jpg

VS

http://ui09.gamespot.com/2824/dart_2.jpg

http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_images/1033649083_turesLloyd.jpg

FF boys fight a team that they can actually stand a chance of beating...maybe.

I'm gonna say Lloyd ftw, but I dunno yet.

If nobody posts relevance, I will sacrifice a small goat. O_O

That's a...really ghey pic of Seph, 5L.

I need more info on Dart and Lloyd before I let my inner Squall fanboy out.

Lol, duh?

Also, that last pic *was* Victor Delacroix. I fixed it.

Dart.
dTtCU3eUtns

Lloyd (first fight)
TKN6gwLiYOU

Lloyd (second fight)
yDyC7y6DP3k

FF wins. Nigrr pleez. 131

Here on KMC, we like to have an order of "Why" with or Answer-meal, FWahMan.

I'm actually in agreement with the guy that team FF wins here, though not so much about his manner of speech.

The duel between Squall and Dart would be pretty close, I think. Dart certainly seems to have a lot more variety in his techniques, some of which can counters Squall's finishers, but overall I think Squall has him beat in terms of strength, and possibly swordsmanship, though I'm iffy on that last point.

Honestly, Lloyed didn't impress me much, and I think Sephrioth would teach the guys what it means to have silver locks.

Controlling Dart is like controlling a boss at the end of most rpg's with all the epic moves he has. by the end of the game he is a swordmaster, so he beats squall there, and he has more feats, again beats squall there again. as far as strength i don't recall seeing an impressive strength feat from squall nor dart so that is nullified.

Llyoyd you can't hit unless your at a certain level of skill, he can dopplegang and move almost instantly. but i don't think he has moves on scale with sephy.

The Legend of Dragoon is by far one of the best RPG's of all time and it will never die. Please sign petition to secure a second game...
http://www.petitiononline.com/LOD2/petition.html

Yeah, Dart is really beast. With certain armor, he is healed by all fire-element attacks, so that's helpful.
Also, Dart and Lloyd have true flight.

Some of the later additions are pretty hot. It's like busting out a limit break at any time. Oh, and what move is it that allows you to turn the battlefield to the element of the caster?

Also, best RPG ever.

its the special move when all of your characters have the option of dragoon, then you can turn them all into dragoon mode, but the character you used the special move with puts you in a different battle field. its a field that is perfectly suited for the dragoon character where you do perfect combos and your strength and defense is boosted tremendously

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
Controlling Dart is like controlling a boss at the end of most rpg's with all the epic moves he has. by the end of the game he is a swordmaster, so he beats squall there,

Now hold on a second, chum. Is being a sword master a quantifiable feat, or is it just the fact he's really good with a sword? If it's the latter case, then there's no difference between him and Squall, and I'd actually go as far to say Squall has the advantage being a master of a more exotic weapon. I saw the moveset 5L provided, and lot of it didn't impress me, it was mostly combo strings that were pretty much on par with Squall's Renzozuken. I counted at least three different attack, however, that were significant in that they looked similar in power to Squall's first three finishers: Rough Divide, Fated Circle, and Blasting Zone. Comparing the abilities, I'd say Rough Divide would be canceled, as would FD (Foxonlylol), but I think Blasting Zone would trump Dart's laz0r blast.

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
and he has more feats, again beats squall there again. as far as strength i don't recall seeing an impressive strength feat from squall nor dart so that is nullified.

Which feats do you mean exactly? Would you mind putting up a comparison that I can debate against? Simply saying he has more feats doesn't automatically give him the win, though it can help. If I didn't already know it wasn't canon, I would use the Jumbo Cactuar battle as a strength feat for Squall, for multiple reasons: 1) the JC is huge, like, at least the size of a small sky scraper. When using Renzozuken, Squall was able to leap into the air and land on top of the thing. 2) Again during the attack, Squall is taking slices at the Cactuar, and it's clearly being hurt. I mean, Squall is literally smacking the thing upside down at one point.

That being said, I'm pretty sure that find wouldn't count because it's a side quest, but there's a strength feat for you.

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
Llyoyd you can't hit unless your at a certain level of skill, he can dopplegang and move almost instantly. but i don't think he has moves on scale with sephy.

I'm fairly sure Sephiroth would be at the level of skill to hit Lloyd, and I did see the teleport strike he used against Dart in their first battle. I don't think its enough to give him a win, though.

Past the posting limit, but one other thing I'd like to mention. If Dissidia is considered canon (which is currently one of the hottest debates at the moment) that ups Squall's versatility significantly, as well as gives him more feats to observe.

Well, Dragoons did have to face an entire swarm of Virages, which would be about the equivalent taking on an equal number of Bahamuts.

Was Dart one of those Dragoons, or is that just some lore from the game?

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
Controlling Dart is like controlling a boss at the end of most rpg's with all the epic moves he has. by the end of the game he is a swordmaster, so he beats squall there, and he has more feats, again beats squall there again. as far as strength i don't recall seeing an impressive strength feat from squall nor dart so that is nullified.

I don't think that Dart shows more feats than Squall, I really doubt it, just look at how Squall demolishes each enemy with his attacks. I can't deny that Dart is an excellent swordsman, but Squall is the master of its weapon, I would say Squall is the strongest swordsman in the Earth (Talking about his world). Dart is only powerful when he's on his Dragoon form, he can fly and he have access to Magic spells. Despite of all of this, I don't know what sort of training Dart had only with his normal form, I would give it to Squall.

Lloyd isn't in Sephiroth's league. He let Cloud killing him by his stupid error in being arrogant, but Sephiroth wouldn't had mercy on Lloyd in any way, I'm sure of it.

Dart holds the Dragon crystal spirit thingy of fire, so his dragoon spirit was in that fight yes, but not his body.

Dart's skills as a swordsman stand alone in human form and he has above-human skill, but he takes on much greater powers of dragons when he transforms.

I'd say that Squall has the edge in human form, but the Dragoon form gives Dart enough extra abilities and powers to win out. I'd say Dart could go evenly with Seph, if we aren't counting ACC (because I don't remember Dart cutting through any buildings without magic). As for swordsmanship, I'd say they go even based on ACC, Dissidia, etc, if we were counting that.

The Dragoon Spirit provides Dart with super-human capabilities. I'd say he would put a GOOD fight for Squall since he have also the advantage of being able to fly.

Basically, Dart fought all of his enemies using the Dragoon Spirit, some examples are the Virages, Dart can't beat a Virage without his transformation, however, I'm sure Squall would beat one up seeing how the Final Fantasy VIII characters defeats God-like creatures like the GFs.

Comparing both characters, Dart looks more like a normal human, with very good sword skills, but nothing impressive I might add. Squall on the other hand, shows tons of more feats just for a normal human, without counting the GFs power, that gives him even more abilities, Dart's awesome, but Squall takes the victory, hands down.

I don't see either of these guys tanking a Renzokuken to Lion Heart attack, much less anything Sephiroth can dish out. Team FF wins handily.

Dart can take a Renzokuken attack from Squall, but only in his Dragoon form. In his normal for I'm seeing Dart literally owned.

Renzokuken maybe, but when you throw Lion Heart in it's not even fair.

Yeah, putting it that way, I think you're right.

Well, Lionheart is pretty awesome (better than Omnislash), but it is clearly a fire based attack (the explosions). Because of its fire nature, that attack would only heal Dart (the flames anyway) because of that armor he has (even in human form).

Umm... Sorry my friend, but Lion Heart it is not a Fire-based attack. Those explosions are just effects from the slashes.

So there are no actual explosions? I'm just seeing things?

70yT3alpSvA

You are going to tell me that there is no fire involved with this attack?

Nobody has said that, I said those explosions were just effects from the slashes, that's all.

Alright, cool.

Might I argue that those flame effects and explosions knock the edge off of the attack based on the healing armor? That's not to say it doesn't damage Dart (can't ignore the slashes, can we?).

... So Zell's combos are considered Fire-based attacks as well just because with each punch you see a small "explosion" ...? Renzokuken is also Fire-based? Huh...? I said it, those are just effects from the gameplay.

Well, if its just an effect like you claim, then it kinda brings the attack's real damage dealing power down since "9999" doesn't really amount to anything in a debate like this, right?

Lion Heart is a completely non elemental attack. If it were fire elemental in any way, shape or form the game would reflect this by having it do fire based damage, which it doesn't.

Friend, I don't claim anything, those are just effects from the game...
Gameplay can't be used in these sort of debates since it's up to each player.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Lion Heart is a completely non elemental attack. If it were fire elemental in any way, shape or form the game would reflect this by having it do fire based damage, which it doesn't.

Or, perhaps, add some flames and explosions in the attack?
I'm just saying, apparently the creators wanted us to perceive some flames and blasts in the attack, so they added them.
Either way, it brings down the destructive nature of the attack.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Or, perhaps, add some flames and explosions in the attack?

Because those are EFFECTS...

So, in this case, those 'effects' have a healing factor on the target.
You are saying that they don't belong, and that we should ignore them?

I'm just saying that those are just effects from the gameplay...

If Dart were in a gameplay those Lion Heart slashes wouldn't healing him either since IT IS NOT A FIRE-BASED ATTACK EITHER.

They don't have a healing effect, because the game makes it clear there's nothing fire based about them. You're just being ridiculous now.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
They don't have a healing effect, because the game makes it clear there's nothing fire based about them. You're just being ridiculous now.

Nothing fire-based except for, you know, the whole combo.

Let me be direct.
Does Lion Heart (A) have fire attributes that would heal Dart, or (B) does it not and take a cut in effective damage dealing? Let's face it; explosions would definitely make the attack more destructive.
Either way, it wont be one-shotting Dart. Please choose A or B.
Also, the very last strike of Lionheart is an explosion, and it does damage.

5WgiYkcTv-Q

Same thing in Dissidia.

LLLLLink... You must be REALLY joking...

Let me be direct, in every Final Fantasy game attacks can be either elemental or non elemental. Any attack that would heal someone who heals from fire would be classed as a fire elemental attack. Lion Hart isn't, meaning it will not heal anyone with an affinity for fire. This isn't something that can be argued, any more than you can argue that Squall is a black guy.

Those explosions are bursts of energy, not flame, fire doesn't pattern like that, it doesn't make purples rings shooting out from it, and it doesn't have white orbs radiating off of it.

You do realize that explosion =/= fire right? An explosion is simply a large amount of energy being released, most of them aren't incendiary.

Also, all of those explosions are special effects from the Gameplay and of each attacks... Just look at Zell's punches, no need more examples.

I'm actually in agreement with 5L's hypothesis that a single limit break will take Dart down. That being said, Squall is plenty capable of performing numerous limit breaks, either with items, or just through the heat of battle. A fully junctioned Squall with about 2, maybe 3 perfectly triggered Renzozukens followed by a finisher should be enough to drop the man in red. One of the coolest things about FF8 characters is the fact that the closer they are to being defeated, the more dangerous they become, I've always liked that.

What are the chances Sephiroth would stomp Lloyd and then just being an *******, sitting back and watching Squall duke it out with Dart? I'd say it's pretty likely. Stupid Sephiroth.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
What are the chances Sephiroth would stomp Lloyd and then just being an *******, sitting back and watching Squall duke it out with Dart? I'd say it's pretty likely. Stupid Sephiroth.

I could see that happening.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Let me be direct, in every Final Fantasy game attacks can be either elemental or non elemental. Any attack that would heal someone who heals from fire would be classed as a fire elemental attack. Lion Hart isn't, meaning it will not heal anyone with an affinity for fire. This isn't something that can be argued, any more than you can argue that Squall is a black guy.

Those explosions are bursts of energy, not flame, fire doesn't pattern like that, it doesn't make purples rings shooting out from it, and it doesn't have white orbs radiating off of it.

You do realize that explosion =/= fire right? An explosion is simply a large amount of energy being released, most of them aren't incendiary.

So....is that answer A or B?

It's answer C: Stop being dumb.

Answer C: pussy out

This is Dart's final attack:

PnVX_fkXvUg

And this is Squall's:

9-pegG8DMc4

No, that's Dart's final addition.
He cant get his final attacks until he gets the Divine Dragoon spirit at the end of the game.

Uh... Those are Dart's and Squall's final moves with their swords, that's what I meant.
I wanted to compare both sword skills. But... Since you put Dart with the Divine Dragoon attacks:

JcADG80X-8Q

JAQBms8zJx4

I think it is not a bad idea to also put some summon attacks:

AWPTgJ7Vuow

qa0wW4lNsOY

Summons are considered outside help. Though, I want to point out that Dragoons can summon their dragons, while Winglies (Lloyd) can control Virages.

You're quite right, also Dragoon Spirits.

Naw, they only work for specific people, plus it needs a person to work, therefore, its an item.

True, though Dart and everyone's true abilities doesn't come from the Dragoon Spirits. The Dragoon Spirits adds powers to the user.

Right.
Although, they do get a little credit since it's one of those 'chosen one' things.

The Dragoon Spirits allows you to fly and to have access to Magic, I'd rather say they get a big credit for using them. I wonder how Lavitz got killed so easily, it was just an stab through his chest and he was already transformed into Dragoon... I like Lavitz more than Albert.

Lloyd did that. Lavitz was a good guy, but Albert was the better fighter, for sure.

I know Lloyd did. Albert is a lot faster than Lavitz, that's all, for me Lavitz was a better warrior, he was a knight, Albert a king.

He trained Albert, too.

My friend was like, "Lavitz is my character!"
Then a while later, he died. I lmao...

Indeed.
But... Lavitz is older than Albert? Or vice versa? Albert seems to be a young king, but I never wondered about their ages.

I think Lavitz was older. Maybe...

Hmm... I tried to visit Wikipedia, but the information about The Legend Of Dragoon is little.

Whoa, wait. That cannon blast is one of Dart's final attacks? That thing's barely comparable to a Blasting Zone, and if that's his best shot, then I don't think Squall has much to worry about.

The more I ponder this the more I think Squall solos, and given that he also has Sephiroth on his side, who is even more powerful, this is a stomp in favor of team FF.

I couldn't agree more with fascistcrusader. We forgot about Sephiroth here, he owns Lloyd.

In what way does Sephiroth own Lloyd?

In the way that Sephiroth is the most talented swordsman in the Final Fantasy universe.

In the way that he has attacks that can break down dimensional barriers. Or the way that he's millions of times faster than Lloyd, is telekinetic, and has shown far more strength. Or maybe it's the way that he could just dissolve him with the Negative Lifestream.

There is no negative Lifestream present in this fight. The lifestream is tied to the planet and in materia, which is crystalized lifestream. The lifestream is composed of the memories of the people who died on the planet.

Sephiroth is not shown to be any faster than Lloyd. They both move swiftly, have dopplegangers, etc. Although, Lloyd possesses DBZ style beams. That's always a plus

They are also equal in swordsmanship, judging from the FF7 and ACC. The main difference is that Lloyd is actually sane.

Sephiroth is described as the blade master in a universe full of incredibly talented swordsmen like Cecil, Squall, Zack, etc. No one in gaming has equal skill with a blade.

I tend to disagree. He uses nothing but worn out cliche anime techs that have been done by just about every swordsman and then loses to someone swinging a sword like a madman (omnislash).
If he was so great, there is no reason that he should be beaten by that move.

Do you know why the cliche anime techs are cliche, 5L? Because they work. If they didn't ,they wouldn't have become cliche, and honestly, in this case I think the cliche trumps Lloyd's skills.

Lloyd's skill looks pretty much the same to me.

The only thing I saw even remotely similar from Lloyd was that teleporting strike he used on Dart in their first meeting. After that he still has fast strikes, but no 'porting, just zooming in, which Sephiroth seem to do in a much better fashion.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Lloyd's skill looks pretty much the same to me.

I'm a The Legend Of Dragoon fan, but I don't really know at 100% what are Lloyd's true abilities, plus, I haven't played the game in years.
I know he's pretty strong and stuff but...
The question is, Lloyd can beat Sephiroth? If you think so, you must provide something that suggests that, otherwise, it's useless only to: "think".

There's no reason to think it though, Lloyd has simply never shown power comparable to Sephiroth, and Sephiroth has never shown us his full strength. Sephiroth could simply pull him onto his sword telekinetically, he wouldn't even have to use his swordsmanship.

Yeah... I know. Although, like I said in some of my previous posts, Lloyd killed Lavitz (in his Dragoon form) just stabbing him through his chest. Lloyd is not a push-over, but he's definitely not in Sephiroth's league, I'm not saying he couldn't give Sephiroth a good fight though.

I actually think I agree that team FF wins. I'd say Dart > Squall to some extent, but Sephiroth > Loyd by that same extent, if not a little more. In the end, FF can outfight LoD.

I'd say FF takes it 7/10 times.

I'd say FF team takes it 6/10.

I think Squall > Dart.

Agreed.

I dont agree with that.
I just think that Lloyd doesn't have the feats to take Seph for sure, and Dart cant take them both.

Wait a second.
In this fight Dart and Lloyd are in their normal forms?

No. Dart has the option of both dragoons and Lloyd has his Wingly form.

What about the Final Fantasy team? They are allowed to use everything?

That would only be fair. I try not to give certain parties unfair advantages just so they can win.

I see, so no Summons for the FF team? It doesn't matter.
Squall > Dart
Sephiroth > Lloyd

(I'm not saying Dart can't defeat Squall in one match, but I'm sure Lloyd can't win any against Sephiroth)

Well, my view is that Dart would barely beat either of them 1v1, but two in a row or both at the same time is a definite loss.

I see.
Care to explain how?

Let's say that Sephiroth decided to sit back and let Dart and Squall duke it out. In human form, Squall wins, hands down because his limit breaks are better than anything that Dart can do in human form.
In Dragoon, however, the ability of flight alone puts Squall at a huge disadvantage from before.

It would probably end with Dart spamming Divine Dragon Ball till Squall flees or is finished. Basically, Squall cant reach him.

Sephiroth would be a little tougher since he can fly. It's probably a 50/50 for him, but Dart dealt with Lloyd, who has very a similar combat style. Really, I see it going down the same way it went down with Cloud, except replace Omnislash with a perfect Dragoon combo, and Dart can fly, unlike Cloud.

Still, its a 50/50.

Flight puts Squall at a minor disadvantage, at best. Assuming he doesn't have the leg strength to just jump at Dart, which he more than likely does, he can avoid the dragon spam and counter with magic, even something as basic as fire or thunder.

Hell, if he really wanted to, he could cast reflect and send Dart's attack back on him.

Sephiroth's even worse because he's even more adept at magic than Squall, plus he can fly negating that disadvantage.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Flight puts Squall at a minor disadvantage, at best. Assuming he doesn't have the leg strength to just jump at Dart, which he more than likely does, he can avoid the dragon spam and counter with magic, even something as basic as fire or thunder.

Flight > jump
Fire is going to heal him, thunder is not very effective.

Originally posted by XanatosForever

Hell, if he really wanted to, he could cast reflect and send Dart's attack back on him.

Sephiroth's even worse because he's even more adept at magic than Squall, plus he can fly negating that disadvantage.

You're going to reflect Final Burst? I don't see it.
I agree on Sephiroth, but I still think it's 50/50.


Anyway, it doesn't matter, because according to the rules of this thread, FF team already won.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Flight > jump
Fire is going to heal him, thunder is not very effective.

Those were examples and you know it, 5L. My point is he doesn't have to have flight to fight back effectively.


Originally posted by LLLLLink
You're going to reflect Final Burst? I don't see it.
I agree on Sephiroth, but I still think it's 50/50.

I may be overstating things. I know for a fact that Reflect work against all magical abilities, but I don't recall if they also worked against special abilities that function as projectiles.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Anyway, it doesn't matter, because according to the rules of this thread, FF team already won.

Aww, and I was having fun. I still say watching a Squall/Dart match would be awesome.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Those were examples and you know it, 5L. My point is he doesn't have to have flight to fight back effectively.

There is no way to argue that a leap is going to compete with flight effectively. Dart can merely float a few meters to the side to dodge an assault, unless we are talking about PIS where Dart is supposed to stand in the way of the attack like Sephiroth and Omnislash.




I may be overstating things. I know for a fact that Reflect work against all magical abilities, but I don't recall if they also worked against special abilities that function as projectiles.


Final burst is a magic attack where Dart engulfs his body in molten flame and runs the enemy through with his sword. I don't see reflect working on that. It seems that FF classification for "magic" is not the same as LoD's.


Aww, and I was having fun. I still say watching a Squall/Dart match would be awesome.

Oh well. At least Dart got a little respect.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
In Dragoon, however, the ability of flight alone puts Squall at a huge disadvantage from before.

Squall can fight flying enemies perfectly. I'd say Dart's advantages in his Dragoon form are the Magic Spells and sword skills. But Squall can use Magic as well.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
It would probably end with Dart spamming Divine Dragon Ball till Squall flees or is finished. Basically, Squall cant reach him.

Huh? And Squall will wait for Dart to finishing him with the Divine Dragon Balls?

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Squall can fight flying enemies perfectly. I'd say Dart's advantages in his Dragoon form are the Magic Spells and sword skills. But Squall can use Magic as well.

Flying enemies who stay perfectly still to meet the RPG battle standard.



Huh? And Squall will wait for Dart to finishing him with the Divine Dragon Balls?

No, but all he can do is run. Maybe fire a some magic.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Flying enemies who stay perfectly still to meet the RPG battle standard.

Explain, I don't quite understand your point.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
No, but all he can do is run. Maybe fire a some magic.

He could run to evade Dart's attack or he could cast Meteors.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Explain, I don't quite understand your point.

I'm not saying that Squall couldnt ground a flying enemy with magic, I'm just saying it would be difficult.



He could run to evade Dart's attack or he could cast Meteors.

Dodge.

I see.
But Dart is pretty slow in his Divine Dragoon form, Squall is pretty fast.

Hey, 'dodge' means 'evade'? English isn't my first language as you have noticed...

Yeah, it does mean evade.
It must be pretty confusing for you when ScreamPaste misspells things, lol

I see.
So... This is the end or what? I mean, Dart could win against Squall some battles, but not all of them.

Dart and Lloyd win based on the fact that someone actually made a ****ing Legend of Dragoon thread.

**** yeah Seaking!

^ Good logic win?

Also, welcome back. o_O

Mining for feats.