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TEAM 1

Link:
http://www.mywiinews.com/wp-content/uploads/link_twilight_princess2.jpg

Ganondorf:

http://www.nintendomaniacs.com/images/ul3/Wii/legend_of_zelda_twilight_princess/ganondorf2.jpg

Dante:

http://s.bebo.com/app-image/8245991774/6517022980/PROFILE/i.quizzaz.com/img/q/u/08/04/23/dante.jpg

Kratos:

http://ui13.gamespot.com/2092/kratos_2.jpg



VS

TEAM 2

War:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wyj8BrennGY/Sap9hk515uI/AAAAAAAAANE/0Qw5onOfYvk/s400/darksiders-wrath-of-war.jpg

Kain:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/e8f9e12b3b.jpg

Bayonetta:
http://www.wastedgamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/bayonetta.jpg

Lich King:
http://gamerlimit.com/files/2009/10/wrath_of_the_lich_king.jpg



Thread basis:

An endless grassland in every direction. Covered in thousands of dead human bodies. Teams will start exactly 1 mile apart.


Character rules:

Team 1:

Link: All powers and abilities from the adult link timeline. No trueforce.

Ganondorf: Same as Link, he may go beast/boar Ganon if he wants.

Kratos: all weapons powers from his series, including those shown in GoW 3.

Dante: DT lasts a couple of mins, his time powers are relative to the DT, use 1 min of DT for devil form, only 1 min remains for time use.

Team 2:

-War has all powers, weapons and abilities. May ride a mount.

-Kain can use 1 of each battle artifact, has all spells/powers and forms from his games. He may wear one of his armours from BO 1.

-Bayonetta can use any 3 of her accessories, has all moves, weapons and abilities.

-The LK can summon up any basic undead (zombies, skeletons, maybe abominations) from the bodies on the ground, and one frost wyrm. He may only go into the spiritual realm for 30 seconds, 2 minute cooldown.

they will fight in three battles

1. Typical battle for a VS

2. lulz match The items, objects and the skill to use said items for each character switches to the team member of any team below them on the above list every 5 minutes. E.g. Links items after 5 mins go to Ganon, Ganons go to Kratos etc. Even if their not on the same team, the items move round so Link will gain the Lich Kings items and so on and so forth.

Each character retains its innate abilities, intelligence etc

3. Same as 1, only this battle will take into account their emotions and overall character, not just who can destroy the other. Both teams get 5 mins prep just to get to talk together, the only bar on character is former enemies (link/Ganon) will remain level headed and not attack eachother.

The 2nd fight, should not the Lich King win that by default? If his equipment move from character to character, each character end up in servitude of him.

I thought about that but its only on their head for 5 minutes, I didnt think the LK could instantly take control of someones mind. For instance the latest wearer of the helm seemed to have his own mind after placing on the helm.

Arthas did not seem to cease to exist as soon as the helm was on and he was already immensly corrupted.

perhaps ill make a rule so that the LK's essence cannot take control of the mind but can give them his powers.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I thought about that but its only on their head for 5 minutes, I didnt think the LK could instantly take control of someones mind. For instance the latest wearer of the helm seemed to have his own mind after placing on the helm.

Arthas did not seem to cease to exist as soon as the helm was on and he was already immensly corrupted.

perhaps ill make a rule so that the LK's essence cannot take control of the mind but can give them his powers.

Bolvar did not have Frostmourne and Arthas did not have the helmet.

Is it stated having all those items at once instantly corrupts you?

Not that I know

5 mins should be safe. Although Team 2 pretty much lose the LK in part 2 and gain Arthas lulz....

Link's Triforce of Courage affinity protects him from corrupting effects. The Fierce Deity Mask, for instance, is said to be more evil than Majora's Mask, and Link ends up controlling it. When he enters the Dark World, he resists becoming a monster. When in the Twilight Realm, he resists becoming a spirit. He's able to touch the Fused Shadows and shards of the Mirror of Twilight without becoming a monster, as well.

Plus, the Master Sword won't let itself be weilded be anyone without a pure heart. "The Power to Repel Evil" will likely harm whoever holds it.

Now, then. Ganondorf is pretty much unkillable without the use of a holy weapon such as the Master Sword, Light Arrows, or Silver Arrows. He also has an ability called the Darkness Technique, wherein he become invisible and intangible in darkness. Light can make him visible, bright light can counter the intangibility. Also, he's able to summon Phantom Ganons, and should be able to create Stalfos and Redeads from the bodies, or revive them outright. I'm pretty sure he can also summon Darknuts and Moblins.

Also, his magic can destroy islands.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Now, then. Ganondorf is pretty much unkillable without the use of a holy weapon such as the Master Sword, Light Arrows, or Silver Arrows

Only in the Zelda universe

Ganondorf also has dimensional banishment, dimensional travel, and a resistance to holy weapons (he survives impalement by the Sages Sword)

The Master Sword protects Link from TK (Zant, Bongo Bongo, etc.), as well as curses, and a plethora of spells. Since it is the "Blade of Evil's Bane", the entirety of team 2 is going to feel those effects. The Mirror Shield will be very helpful reflecting energy and blocking blows.

Link and War are the two tanks in this fight, and they will probably be the last ones standing. Well, Ganondorf, too.

1. Dante rides Trish/Ladys bike over to them, uses QS and ends it 2mins with time stopped with his speed and strength will make short work of it. Link and Kratos ride over on Ganon lol

Take out the king 'cos an undead army is a pain, especially if Kain can get health back by draining 'em. Dante, LoZ's then Kratos will get to the battle first (in that order) while War, Bay will arrive to face them. Kain not being the fastest will get there later unless he wants to wast rapid teleporting before he even gets there :/ doubt kingy will be moving much so team may stay around him.

The MS or light arrows should take down the king, whats this Link limited to? Team 1 has better range and faster fighters, 2 has higher special powers but that shouldn't be too hard to get around.

2. Can the person getting the powers need the requirements? eg needing devil energy to use dantes moves or a choses one to wield the MS.

3. If its really their personalities then... well... Link and Ganon on a team, War and Kingy, all 8 may kill each other as they are a mile apart.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
Only in the Zelda universe

No, it's mostly due to the Artifact of Divine Power that gives him the blessing of the Goddess of Power. Immortality is explicitly one of his abilities. Hell, even the Master Sword can't kill him permanently.

Does anyone have a way to get past that THE GODDESS OF POWER SAYS I CAN'T DIE field that Ganondorf has going on?

Well, just so everyone knows, the Goddesses created time, law, creation, and the land.
So, you would be stupid to deny that they are "God" status.

Originally posted by BloodRain
1. Dante rides Trish/Ladys bike over to them, uses QS and ends it 2mins with time stopped with his speed and strength will make short work of it. Link and Kratos ride over on Ganon lol

whats this Link limited to?

2. Can the person getting the powers need the requirements? eg needing devil energy to use dantes moves or a choses one to wield the MS.



Dante does not get bike, although I admit I did not realise that 2 mins in time stop/slow is a little imba, I may change that to just DT getting a min or so, QS being limited based on the longest hes used it in canon.

Majoras mask, Phantom hourglass and WW I assume? whatevers in the Adult Link timeline.

I dont know, I think I better just allow them to use it regardless of whats necessery otherwise some people will end up with items they could never use. Not that part 2 of the battle is fair anyway

Originally posted by The Scenario
No, it's mostly due to the Artifact of Divine Power that gives him the blessing of the Goddess of Power. Immortality is explicitly one of his abilities. Hell, even the Master Sword can't kill him permanently.

Does anyone have a way to get past that THE GODDESS OF POWER SAYS I CAN'T DIE field that Ganondorf has going on?

Thats a no limit fallacy, most invulerability is, we take the biggest feat he has on durability and thats his max.

Also he could be defeated through K.O/freezing in time etc he can be sliced pretty handily so Team 2 would just have to cut his legs and arms off assuming he could not die.

Self4dDdRHE

0:30-1:00 and 6:20-end.

Ganondorf doesn't need a body and is able to reform it.

Originally posted by The Scenario
No, it's mostly due to the Artifact of Divine Power that gives him the blessing of the Goddess of Power. Immortality is explicitly one of his abilities. Hell, even the Master Sword can't kill him permanently.

Does anyone have a way to get past that THE GODDESS OF POWER SAYS I CAN'T DIE field that Ganondorf has going on?

Yes, it is. The extent of abilities in a character is limited to the range of power that universe provide.

Take Ganondorf for example: You are saying that you need holy attacks, light arrows, silver arrows or the Master Sword to defeat him. You are restricting the means of defeat to the range in the Zelda universe.
Let us use the ever so popular Sargeras as an example. Sargeras has been portraited in canon to impale a planet with his sword. You are saying that this titan, who belong to a race that casually lift mountains and destroy planets can not harm Ganondorf.

Also, the Lich King has an immortality ability as well.

I didn't say unable to be harmed. I said unable to be killed. He can be harmed; he can get his ass kicked. But he won't die because there is the power of a goddess keeping him alive. Divine weapons like the Silver Arrows cancel out the protection and kill him.

So yeah, unless the planet destroying sword gets past his divine protection, he'll come back.

Only giving him like 20secs of QS? Damn, meh still enough >..> All weapons means Dante gets a bike ;p or he'll just run.

Still for Link taking out the King, big threat gone

Let us elaborate this technique of yours: The Lich King has not yet failed to drain the soul of a target. Because Ganondorf is a target, his soul can be drained by the Lich King because it is within his powers to do so. No one has survived having their soul drained, so Ganondorf will not either

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
Let us elaborate this technique of yours: The Lich King has not yet failed to drain the soul of a target. Because Ganondorf is a target, his soul can be drained by the Lich King because it is within his powers to do so. No one has survived having their soul drained, so Ganondorf will not either

Ganondorf's soul has never been drained. The Lich King has never met someone with soul protection. But that's not what I'm saying here. In order to overcome Ganondorf, you must overcome Din. Unless you can defeat the godess of power, you can't kill Ganondorf permanently. He will reform. You can kill him again. He will reform.

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/249/32777-tactical_facepalm_super.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/5XjDqySq9t3GemDb1HaKXlTHUT4uPRnJFsr8v6SemaY_/Trollface_HD.jpg

Ganondorf can be killed in this multi-universe, in his is a different story. 'sides its in the rules. Otherwise Kain wouldn't die either.

Many of our members need to learn the difference between plot and ability.

So how long does it take for Ganondorf to reform after being defeated? Entire generations it seems.

Regenerating from defeat means loss, like how Kratos can come back from hell but going there means he lost.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Regenerating from defeat means loss, like how Kratos can come back from hell but going there means he lost.

Depends on how fast you can do it and by what means.

Being declared technically dead even for a second means they loose right?

actually in a boxer fight format(I'm assuming how most fights work) the combantant most get up in 10 seconds, and if not he loses

I thought I already posted it.

Self4dDdRHE

0:30-1:00 and 6:20
Ganondorf's soul is removed from Zelda's body and the particles reform into his Ganon form. Ganon is killed and he comes back in his spirit form, where Midna attacks him.

ufwD5pEJZX4&feature=related

0:20

Then Hyrule Castle explodes and Ganondorf's back in the flesh, crushing the Fused Shadows.

But that's knocked out not dead.

@ Scenario: whats that for?

At least 2 members of Team 2 can attack souls, maybe more (not sure if Bayonetta or War can, In my completion of Bay I cannot remember and I am not far enough in Darksiders to know of his powers).

Although War does absorb souls naturally,its gameplay just like how Dante can absorb souls but there may be some canon behind it, not sure.

Through the Orcania, he has a play a tune to do it.....and I assume as you said, seal it? this is not going to help him really. Besides hes on Ganons team.

1) It's a sound. You cant dodge sound; you can only block it.

2) Him being on Ganon's team is relevant to what, exactly?

The whole point was that Link has a degree of soul manipulation, meaning that he isn't a stranger to its effects.

Actually, Link is immune to those abilities anyway, via Master Sword and ToC.

1) you can smash the instrument and strangle link before he plays anything though.

2) Were discussing how Ganons soul is fair game even if his body was invulerable.

No hes not, the MS has never protected his soul, dont bring no limit fallacies and assumptions into this thread as well please.

Good job starting a timeline debate. Thread derailment in 5.... 4...

Trueforce, lol.

Ganondorf has messed with his own soul several times. Aganhim was either a possessed body or a manifestation. Ganonondorf possessed Zelda and forced her to fight Link. Even Zant was given a fraction of Ganondorf's soul, which would revive both of them as long as the other was alive. How can we guarantee that anyone attempting to steal Ganondorf's soul won't be possessed? Or that he won't revive himself anyway?

http://msrb.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/mushroom-cloud-hb.jpg

THE END

Originally posted by Burning thought
1) you can smash the instrument and strangle link before he plays anything though.

The ocarina is pretty durable, being dropped by Majora from 20ft or more to the ground with no damage. That, and its a sacred magic treasure.

Originally posted by Burning thought
2) Were discussing how Ganons soul is fair game even if his body was invulerable.

See The Scenario's rebuttle.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No hes not, the MS has never protected his soul, dont bring no limit fallacies and assumptions into this thread as well please.

The Triforce of Courage protected his soul from being transformed into Zant's monsters in the Twilight Realm.
Quit posting about Link when you are obviously ignorant of the character's accomplishments. It makes you look dumb when you post things that are flat-out lies.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
The ocarina is pretty durable, being dropped by Majora from 20ft or more to the ground with no damage. That, and its a sacred magic treasure.



See The Scenario's rebuttle.



The Triforce of Courage protected his soul from being transformed into Zant's monsters in the Twilight Realm.
Quit posting about Link when you are obviously ignorant of the character's accomplishments. It makes you look dumb when you post things that are flat-out lies.

Wow what incredible durability

ok

No, thats called protecting his body if your talking about transformation.....

You do it all the time hypocrite.
Originally posted by The Scenario
Ganondorf has messed with his own soul several times. Aganhim was either a possessed body or a manifestation. Ganonondorf possessed Zelda and forced her to fight Link. Even Zant was given a fraction of Ganondorf's soul, which would revive both of them as long as the other was alive. How can we guarantee that anyone attempting to steal Ganondorf's soul won't be possessed? Or that he won't revive himself anyway?

If he revives himself with his spirit contained/eaten/absorbed then I would like to see when he does this.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Ganondorf has messed with his own soul several times. Aganhim was either a possessed body or a manifestation. Ganonondorf possessed Zelda and forced her to fight Link. Even Zant was given a fraction of Ganondorf's soul, which would revive both of them as long as the other was alive. How can we guarantee that anyone attempting to steal Ganondorf's soul won't be possessed? Or that he won't revive himself anyway?

There is a difference between having given and have it taken. A big difference.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
There is a difference between having given and have it taken. A big difference.

There's also a big difference between taking a soul and being possessed. The point is not that his soul was given, but that part of it was. Zant only had a fraction. Thus, Ganondorf has split his soul into at least two pieces in order to give some to Zant.



Wind Waker.

rEoRavExhfo&feature=related

This is Wind Waker's intro. It retells the story of Ocarina of Time, and then continues the Adult Timeline. To sum it up: After Link seals Ganon, Zelda sends him back in time to relive his childhood. Ganon breaks free and starts terrorizing Hyrule again, but since Link was sent back in time, there is no hero to stop Ganon. At this point the gods step and flood the world just to stop him. But he escapes, and Wind Waker happens.

However, Ganondorf is in two places at once at this point. Part of him is in the real world, but part of him is also still sealed in the Sacred Realm. When Link retrieves the Master Sword to stop Ganondorf, he accidentally unseals the rest of him. Same as the Zant example, Ganondorf's soul is in two peices. One is sealed, one is not.

Again, there's the Aganhim example. Ganon is still sealed in the Dark World, but a peice of him is either in Aganhim, or is Aganhim, who is in the real world. Two peices; one sealed, one not. There is no way to say that when someone attempts to steal his soul, that they will get all of it. Even the gods couldn't get all of him when they tried, and they sealed the entire county.

Originally posted by The Scenario
There's also a big difference between taking a soul and being possessed. The point is not that his soul was given, but that part of it was. Zant only had a fraction. Thus, Ganondorf has split his soul into at least two pieces in order to give some to Zant.

Which makes no difference, since there is still a difference between to give and have taken. Just because Ganondorf can decide how much of his soul someone should have, does not mean he can decide how much someone can take.

It does show a large degree of control.

Control when you are in control.

Which he could very well be. He's got some pretty great feats of control, and his power is on a very large scale. It would be very difficult to over-power him and take control from him.

Originally posted by The Scenario
There's also a big difference between taking a soul and being possessed. The point is not that his soul was given, but that part of it was. Zant only had a fraction. Thus, Ganondorf has split his soul into at least two pieces in order to give some to Zant.



Wind Waker.

rEoRavExhfo&feature=related

This is Wind Waker's intro. It retells the story of Ocarina of Time, and then continues the Adult Timeline. To sum it up: After Link seals Ganon, Zelda sends him back in time to relive his childhood. Ganon breaks free and starts terrorizing Hyrule again, but since Link was sent back in time, there is no hero to stop Ganon. At this point the gods step and flood the world just to stop him. But he escapes, and Wind Waker happens.

However, Ganondorf is in two places at once at this point. Part of him is in the real world, but part of him is also still sealed in the Sacred Realm. When Link retrieves the Master Sword to stop Ganondorf, he accidentally unseals the rest of him. Same as the Zant example, Ganondorf's soul is in two peices. One is sealed, one is not.

Again, there's the Aganhim example. Ganon is still sealed in the Dark World, but a peice of him is either in Aganhim, or is Aganhim, who is in the real world. Two peices; one sealed, one not. There is no way to say that when someone attempts to steal his soul, that they will get all of it. Even the gods couldn't get all of him when they tried, and they sealed the entire county.

I am too lazy to watch the video atm so I will take your word for it, assuming his soul is in several people/places in the game. The piece thats controlling Ganon in this matchup is what counts, so if its taken, destroyed, removed or contained then he is defeated. Or Ofc he is incapaciated some other way, like loss of limb.

The gods of the world were unable to get all of Ganondorf's soul. What makes us think anyone else can?

Originally posted by The Scenario
The gods of the world were unable to get all of Ganondorf's soul. What makes us think anyone else can?

Because anyone else is not of that world. You need to get a new way of thinking into your head.

They would still have to show themselves as being more capable than Din, Nayru, and Farore in that respect.

I know, but that is not what was my point. The Scenario, like many other are too caught in game-specific feats. Characters that can seem of great power and importance in one game could be very insignificant in another.

It is all relative in a versus. Something many either forget or do not realize.

Originally posted by The Scenario
The gods of the world were unable to get all of Ganondorf's soul. What makes us think anyone else can?

They dont need to get it all, only the piece in this matchup, Ganon would be helpless if someone took his soul in this matchup, where the other piecies are assuming we are to beive he is going to join this match with a split soul anyway (considering the places and people his soul would be in the Zelda universe do not exist here) is irrelevent, they will not help him.

And what feats do the Gods have exactly of "attempting" to take a soul, the Gods by the sounds of it did little in comparison to Kains/Lich Kings active soul devouring powers. From what I understand they never attempted to devour or consume his soul anyway, only seal it.

Din, Farore, and Nayru are comparable to their counterparts in the Warcraft pantheon, based on a discussion I had with Q'Anilia.

Warcraft + Q'Anilia = Fact^2

That does not help, whats their feats over the soul and more importantly, what has Ganon been shown defeating?

If its a layered cake of assumptions/titles and no limit fallacies then I am not interested.

I merely skimmed the thread, but is BT making the argument that Kain can steal Ganon's soul without the blade piercing his body? Because his sword doesn't have that power.

Welcome back, Moo. I hope your time out taught you not to post other people's family photoes. D:

Edit: I'm not sure he's made that claim yet.

Oh. Guess I'd better read the whole thing then. But get ready for that. If memory serves he'll have some quote on it.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
I know, but that is not what was my point. The Scenario, like many other are too caught in game-specific feats. Characters that can seem of great power and importance in one game could be very insignificant in another.

It is all relative in a versus. Something many either forget or do not realize.

Alright, please explain. I do not think I understand what you are saying. What is your point, and how much is relative? I will give an example of why I think this is significant, and I hope you can tell me why you think it is not significant.

xcM1dsVrxDc

1:10-3:00

Okay. Din created the earth. Nayru created law (physics, time, etc.) Farore created life. There, baseline established. I believe such things are not totally relative, or this and all debates become pointless. I'm assuming several constants among fictional universes. Nonmagical fire in Zelda should behave the same way as nonmagical fire in any other universe unless otherwise noted. Gravity should be the same as well, unless otherwise noted. This should not be relative in order to establish what does and does not work.
So, creating the earth is a good feat, as unless otherwise noted, planets are assumed to be like those in our universe. Life bearing planets may be assumed to be earthlike. Creating time, too, should be considered good because in all fictional universes time is assumed to pass in the same way. This is to prevent claims that (for example), because time passes slower in Zelda, that everyone would be hypersonic if they moved to another universe. Thus we must assume a baseline constant, or absolute.

Regardless, the godesses created the Triforce as a side effect of leaving the material world once it was created.

iC0KIrKIEYM

0:25-0:45

Here, the Triforce is said to be omnipotent and omniscient. I suppose I'm be failing to consider that these words might have different meanings in Hyrule. I'm assuming that omnipotent means "all doing" in Hyrule, and that it would also have the same meaning in another universe. I'd say it does. I'd also be assuming that, because the three goddesses created something that is omnipotent, they would also be omnipotent, at least when all they are together, just as the Triforce is omnipotent when all the peices are together.

Ganondorf holds the Triforce of Power, which is associated with Din, the one that created the earth. The gods were unable to take Ganondorf down, even when they flooded the planet. They were unable to seal all of him. Granted, of course, that they were mere gods compared to the power of the goddesses, but again I'm assuming that the word god actually means what it does in other universes. They went with a classic biblical flood, so I'd assume the word means what I think it does.

I've already presented the evidence that Ganondorf can fight without a body and is able to recreate it easily and I've presented my argument on why soul drains will not be an instant win. Namely that Ganondorf escaped having his soul being sealed by gods, and is able to split his soul into peices. If someone where to attempt to steal his soul, he could simply split it and create another bdy.

Ok, the soul stuff was about the Lich King. Can anyone tell me how he drains souls?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Ok, the soul stuff was about the Lich King. Can anyone tell me how he drains souls?

Mainly by striking his target with Frostmourne.

Well if that can be dodged then I don't think that'll be too much of a problem.

Y'know, reading over this again. BT may have made a good thread. I'm looking forward to debating round 3. Let's hope it doesn't deteriorate before then.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Alright, please explain. I do not think I understand what you are saying. What is your point, and how much is relative? I will give an example of why I think this is significant, and I hope you can tell me why you think it is not significant.

xcM1dsVrxDc

1:10-3:00

Okay. Din created the earth. Nayru created law (physics, time, etc.) Farore created life. There, baseline established. I believe such things are not totally relative, or this and all debates become pointless. I'm assuming several constants among fictional universes. Nonmagical fire in Zelda should behave the same way as nonmagical fire in any other universe unless otherwise noted. Gravity should be the same as well, unless otherwise noted. This should not be relative in order to establish what does and does not work.
So, creating the earth is a good feat, as unless otherwise noted, planets are assumed to be like those in our universe. Life bearing planets may be assumed to be earthlike. Creating time, too, should be considered good because in all fictional universes time is assumed to pass in the same way. This is to prevent claims that (for example), because time passes slower in Zelda, that everyone would be hypersonic if they moved to another universe. Thus we must assume a baseline constant, or absolute.

Regardless, the godesses created the Triforce as a side effect of leaving the material world once it was created.

iC0KIrKIEYM

0:25-0:45

Here, the Triforce is said to be omnipotent and omniscient. I suppose I'm be failing to consider that these words might have different meanings in Hyrule. I'm assuming that omnipotent means "all doing" in Hyrule, and that it would also have the same meaning in another universe. I'd say it does. I'd also be assuming that, because the three goddesses created something that is omnipotent, they would also be omnipotent, at least when all they are together, just as the Triforce is omnipotent when all the peices are together.

Ganondorf holds the Triforce of Power, which is associated with Din, the one that created the earth. The gods were unable to take Ganondorf down, even when they flooded the planet. They were unable to seal all of him. Granted, of course, that they were mere gods compared to the power of the goddesses, but again I'm assuming that the word god actually means what it does in other universes. They went with a classic biblical flood, so I'd assume the word means what I think it does.

I've already presented the evidence that Ganondorf can fight without a body and is able to recreate it easily and I've presented my argument on why soul drains will not be an instant win. Namely that Ganondorf escaped having his soul being sealed by gods, and is able to split his soul into peices. If someone where to attempt to steal his soul, he could simply split it and create another bdy.

You think that just because they are the creators, the Gods of that world, their feats count for more than any single individual would. Because they have great powers, means that every power they use is great. I will have you know that just because they have shown great level of power, does not mean that every sample of power is just as great. The things you just went through did not for a moment raise their soul powers.

I read nothing about why their soul powers should be anything special. Lich King's powerset virtually revolve around the ability to take souls and Kain, while lacking credible canon feats, has his fair share of soul taking to fall back on.

In addition, just because Ganon has shown the ability to split his soul, does not mean he can do it at a flash and especially not if his soul is being attacked. The thing about taking someone soul, is that you take the whole thing. Even should he split it, there is no saying that the Lich King for one would not take both pieces at once.

To clarify: I am not arguing Ganon's ability to resist soul attacks, I am arguing your way of thinking.


Edit:
Omnipotence = Unlimited power of a particular kind: Webster's Encyclopedia. Just because something is Omnipotent, does not make it able to do all things. This is a very common thought for people who read "Omnipotence", but no one is ever taking in consideration the fact that being unlimited in power has limitations.

Funny fact: The Lich King by definition has been by narrator claimed Omnipotent. What do you have to say about that?

Phantom Miria is on the same page as me, I want to see what they have actually done with souls, more importantly how is all this important? since all we know they did not use their full power in stopping gannondorf and if they did, their powers over souls may be limited, especially considering dorf himself was not on their level of creation therefore him defeating their powers or not being able to stop him is an opposite claim for their strength.

Omnipotence in itself is a no limit fallacy.

The problem there, BT, is Ganon was granted his immortality by their combined power. (The entire triforce) when he touched it the first time in Ocarina of time. In this sense, he is one of them. His power over his own soul is as good as theirs.

immortality is not power, it is the ability live through most harm. Although many belive in Twilight princess he died when the triforce of power left him and Zant lay destroyed. Either way he has been stopped many times.

Him having immortality will not really help him. The soul itself is arguably consistently immortal.

He did not die at the end of TP, that's impossible because he's in games after TP. The triforce on his hand faded, as it has in any 3d game where the master sword and he meet. In the end, he's just sealed away. It's more likely that they tossed him into the sacred realm.

What I'm getting at is their combined power nailed his soul to him.

Theres a lot of gaps in that line of thought. First asuming the triforce is the combined 100% power of all of them. Then assuming Ganon accessed 100% of that power for his immortality. Immortality still does not protect you from having your soul taken, it just keeps you alive, if he is still alive in a soul state (not unlikely, hes done it before) then thats still immortality, simply not of the flesh.

If he is contained in either frostmourne, the spectral realm or the soulreaver he is defeated. Likewise if he is absorbed by War. bayonettas sword attacks the soul as well.

After that though, we still have no feats from these goddesses concerning soul protection/powers.

It is. This is shown when it overrides the seal they themselves placed on Hyrule.


He did, it has to be complete for the user to access it's full power and for their wishes to be granted.

Considering the goddesses created souls, that's a feat in and of itself. Farore > souls. The problem is, her power, along with Din and Nayru's, is protecting Ganon's.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
It is. This is shown when it overrides the seal they themselves placed on Hyrule.


He did, it has to be complete for the user to access it's full power and for their wishes to be granted.

Considering the goddesses created souls, that's a feat in and of itself. Farore > souls. The problem is, her power, along with Din and Nayru's, is protecting Ganon's.

But once again, how do we even know the seal held all their power?


Show me what Ganon actually wishes for, I want to know what he says specifically.

What claims their protecting his soul? your making it sound like the goddesses are on Ganons side and protecting him. Besides thats not going to protect him from Kain, probably not even LK, the soulreaver>>Elder God who was the very hub of the wheel of life/death etc.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Considering the goddesses created souls, that's a feat in and of itself. Farore > souls. The problem is, her power, along with Din and Nayru's, is protecting Ganon's.

Just because you created something, does not mean you can destroy it.

Unfortunately, their power is infact protecting him. The triforce is their power, and they can not undo that, because it is their power, and more than you can undo stubbing your toe. It sucks, but they're stuck with it. There's no cutscene detailing his exact wording of his wish.

Also, nice abuse of titles. The Elder God doesn't have feats comparable to the goddesses.

A good analogy for Ganondorf. They created him, now they're stuck with him.

Or control it, I think these Goddesses are ambiguious and were talking about things they made, which conquered other things they made etc, not them themselves. I think Ganons soul would be easy game for anyone attempting to take it.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Also, nice abuse of titles. The Elder God doesn't have feats comparable to the goddesses.

The EG feats concerning souls (absrobing/eating them, recreating them as life etc) >>>>>>>the Goddesses (zero, perhaps creating them)

You think what you want to think.



Creating them, recycling them, empowering them. Eating them? No, because they're the good guys. Good guys don't eat souls. They certainly manage souls though. The Elder God never created a soul, and he certainly never created a universe.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Besides thats not going to protect him from Kain, probably not even LK

The Lich King actually has more canon feats for claiming souls than Kain, so saying "not even" is a little fallacious.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

Creating them, recycling them, empowering them. Eating them? No, because they're the good guys. Good guys don't eat souls. They certainly manage souls though. The Elder God never created a soul, and he certainly never created a universe.

Creating a soul is irrelvent when the question is the stealing/destruction of souls. The EG was pretty much fate itself as well as doing almost anything he wanted with souls relevant to the question at hand. Created a universe? thats not important either, not that I belive you unless this unvierse consists of the few celestial bodies we see in LoZ.

And you seem to be ignoring the fact you claim he asked for immortality, not soul protection so he has no soul protection based on that. He can end this fight as a yelling torso if hes really that immortal.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
The Lich King actually has more canon feats for claiming souls than Kain, so saying "not even" is a little fallacious.

Depends.

And with that comes protection from such a silly loophole. His powers over his own soul are shown to be greater than any Kain's shown over any soul.

No, it does not. I'm no expert but even I can tell you he does based just on what I've seen in threads around here.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And with that comes protection from such a silly loophole. His powers over his own soul are shown to be greater than any Kain's shown over any soul.

What protection? you brought up immortality, theres no protection in that for his soul, or his limbs. This has been countered earlier in this thread by others, control over his own soul would not exist when its being controlled by someone else. He has never had anyone control his soul, absorb it, contain it etc

Except in order for someone else to be in control they'd have to wrest control from him, not easily done. His control >>>> Kain's.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Except in order for someone else to be in control they'd have to wrest control from him, not easily done.


not easily done? hes never faced someone trying to do that so how do you know how he could possibly defend himself against it? especially while in a physical form.

If Kain or LK strike him with their swords his soul is absorbed into the respective blade, LK does not even have to strike, I think he has a long range spell called harvest souls that allows him to take souls from distance. It takes time (6 seconds) but Ganons never faced something like this.....he would not even know how to protect himself.

Originally posted by iChaos


What specificly amuse you?

What's to stop Ganon from laying a death curse on any of team 2 like he did to the Deku Tree?

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
What specificly amuse you?

BT's posts.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
What's to stop Ganon from laying a death curse on any of team 2 like he did to the Deku Tree?

Show me?

Edit: Zeldapedia claims that the tree was cast at the beginning of the imprisoning war which lead to Ganon being sealed in the end by the knights and sages, when does it finally die because if Link still gets to talk with it after Ganons return the curse must take an extremely long time.

Either LK or Kain prob have spells that could one hit Ganon, whether it be through incapaciation or soul steal.

Originally posted by iChaos
BT's posts.

Bait moar?

Kratos turns 'em to stone and Link bombs/arrows them to pieces.

lulz at Kratos, War could outmanouver and assault him with fair ease. Unlike Kratos War actually seems less lumbering/more agile in comparison.

Links bow would be snapped although I lol at any of his bombs landing a hit.

Hey im just throwing Kratos a bone lol though Kratos is above human agility.

Snapped?

Originally posted by iChaos
BT's posts.

Why?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Hey im just throwing Kratos a bone lol though Kratos is above human agility.

Snapped?

Ofc but War gets his mount in this one, mainly because unlike Kratos he does not have specific powers that can afaik majorly alter the battlefield. His chaos mode on the other hand is pretty sweet.

Sure, a quick bolt of energy while hes drawring it, or a counter attack from someone, drawring and fireing a bow would be the worst thing he could do imo. LK could escape most shots through spiritual shifting, Kain through teleporting, Bayonetta will laugh as she watches it slowly come towards her and then dodge before it touches the tip of her nose. Cant see Link wasting arrows on War, would seem pointless since hes not the biggest threat, then again he could prob kill Link.

Interestingly though, Links light arrows may be Team 1 best way of killing LK.

Told ya the light arrows would be good against him, oh and those ice arrows are deadly if they hit the others. Team 2 may have ways of evading it head on but is it the same case if a speeding arrow comes at you while youre fighting someone else? This hit can be pulled of as i dont relly see LK as the up-close and personal type, so Team 1 has a few more chances.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Show me?

Edit: Zeldapedia claims that the tree was cast at the beginning of the imprisoning war which lead to Ganon being sealed in the end by the knights and sages, when does it finally die because if Link still gets to talk with it after Ganons return the curse must take an extremely long time.

There are several different Deku Trees. The first one died in OoT from Ganondorf's curse.

Well, what really happens is Ganondorf comes to Kokiri Forest to demand that the Great Deku Tree give him the Kokiri Emerald.When the Great Deku Tree denies him, Ganondorf forsaw that Link will retrieve the 3 sacred gems and open the way to the Sacred Realm for him. So, he puts a death curse on the Deku Tree. This event is what spurs Link into action and starts the fulfillment of his destiny.

So, I would say the curse is not practical for battle, but it would ensure the death of the target. Judging from the urgency, the curse probably takes 2 days to a week to kill. But, the death effect is not reversable, even if the curse is dispelled.

...isn't this more than 3 vs 3?

It'll probably be left down to:

Team 1: Link, Ganon, and Dante.

Team 2: War, LK, and Bayonetta.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Told ya the light arrows would be good against him, oh and those ice arrows are deadly if they hit the others. Team 2 may have ways of evading it head on but is it the same case if a speeding arrow comes at you while youre fighting someone else? This hit can be pulled of as i dont relly see LK as the up-close and personal type, so Team 1 has a few more chances.

Not sure, ice arrows can freeze but apprently "dark nuts" (spelling?) whatever they are can easily smash out of being frozen, so like in GoW when your turned to stone, if your strong enough you can break out pretty quickly.

I guess but if Links going to take a backseat and launch arrows into the fray chances are someone is going to teleport or speed up to him and kill him with ease without his shield/sword out. Bayonetta or kain could do this. The fight will happen fast and may change.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
There are several different Deku Trees. The first one died in OoT from Ganondorf's curse.

Well, what really happens is Ganondorf comes to Kokiri Forest to demand that the Great Deku Tree give him the Kokiri Emerald.When the Great Deku Tree denies him, Ganondorf forsaw that Link will retrieve the 3 sacred gems and open the way to the Sacred Realm for him. So, he puts a death curse on the Deku Tree. This event is what spurs Link into action and starts the fulfillment of his destiny.

So, I would say the curse is not practical for battle, but it would ensure the death of the target. Judging from the urgency, the curse probably takes 2 days to a week to kill. But, the death effect is not reversable, even if the curse is dispelled.

Well this is hardly going to help Team 1, this battle is not going to last a few days-week, assuming it even works. Affecting a tree is not the same as affecting a dark spiritual Lich, an undead vampire or a witch. Different target, different variables to consider. I cant see how it can harm those technically already dead in a sense.

Originally posted by FWahMaN
...isn't this more than 3 vs 3?

If their in teams like in this fight their allowed to have 5 per team according to the rules.

And that's if everyone on team 2 can be stoned.

Originally posted by Burning thought


I guess but if Links going to take a backseat and launch arrows into the fray chances are someone is going to teleport or speed up to him and kill him with ease without his shield/sword out. Bayonetta or kain could do this. The fight will happen fast and may change.

To think that any of these fighters can be killed with ease is extremely fallacious. If they tried something like that on Link, for example, they would only meet with the business end of the Master Sword through use of the Mortal Draw technique.


Originally posted by Burning thought

Well this is hardly going to help Team 1, this battle is not going to last a few days-week, assuming it even works. Affecting a tree is not the same as affecting a dark spiritual Lich, an undead vampire or a witch. Different target, different variables to consider. I cant see how it can harm those technically already dead in a sense.


Hey, you asked.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
To think that any of these fighters can be killed with ease is extremely fallacious. If they tried something like that on Link, for example, they would only meet with the business end of the Master Sword through use of the Mortal Draw technique.




Hey, you asked.

Not really, if hes not got any of his weapons prepared apart from his bow then Bayonetta or another quick character could take him unprepared.

Mortal draw sounds like gameplay, in a real fight he would somehow have to drop his bow, draw his sword etc and he would still be less his shield which I assume he would put on his back when using his bow.

Indeed

A second or two in that vulnerable state is not good. Now to jump back on the dante takes it bandwagon.

Originally posted by iChaos
And that's if everyone on team 2 can be stoned.

Everyone can get stoned

Originally posted by Burning thought
lulz at Kratos, War could outmanouver and assault him with fair ease. Unlike Kratos War actually seems less lumbering/more agile in comparison.

Links bow would be snapped although I lol at any of his bombs landing a hit.
How can War assault him with ease considering he has the same speed as Kratos and Kain. Seems is the keyword of indicating your not even sure he can out manuver him.

anyhow I think Ganon should not have problems with LK considering he can use necromancy as well, so that leaves LK's trump card out. Bayo will seal the deal mostlikely with her strength.

Dante would be at threat from anyone on Team 2 apart from maybe War, Bayonetta I would say could probably equel his speed considering her bullet timing and she also has an equivelant to QS.

Also he only has so much range and his teleport is poor as its more of a dash where he brieftly disapears (trickster) over a few meters. He could by no means hope to take Team 2 alone, and may even have difficulty getting close before someone takes him on, if he does get close then Bayonetta would have to take him, shes the only one with speed close to Dante.

Originally posted by Phanteros
How can War assault him with ease considering he has the same speed as Kratos and Kain. Seems is the keyword of indicating your not even sure he can out manuver him.

anyhow I think Ganon should not have problems with LK considering he can use necromancy as well, so that leaves LK's trump card out. Bayo will seal the deal mostlikely with her strength.

Kain is far quicker than either of them, with or without teleportation/mist form. Thats because I have not completed Darksiders and have not played "chains of Olmypus" on PSP.

Gameplay mechanics, stop using them in your arguments.

Congratulations, someone on team 2 just ate a mortal draw, they are no longer in the fight.

That curse was before Ganon evenr got his piece of the triforce. He has his piece here.

Regardless. I foresee a pair of undead armies clashing due to the battlefield being filled with available corpses, but team one has light arrows and the master sword/lens of truth on their side. Kain will be a nonfactor, despite your wank. "He can tleeportz!" won't save him from things he can't react to, and he's low on reaction feats, I'm sorry to say.

Originally posted by BloodRain
A second or two in that vulnerable state is not good. Now to jump back on the dante takes it bandwagon.



Everyone can get stoned

I'm sure a head of Medusa can't stone everyone, but meh. Dante & Bayonetta would probably end up hitting it off, heh.

Well, it can probably do so to Kain, and Bayonetta. Not sure if it'd work on the Lich King or War. Regardless. Kratos is being overlooked far too much lately.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Gameplay mechanics, stop using them in your arguments.

Congratulations, someone on team 2 just ate a mortal draw, they are no longer in the fight.

That curse was before Ganon evenr got his piece of the triforce. He has his piece here.

Regardless. I foresee a pair of undead armies clashing due to the battlefield being filled with available corpses, but team one has light arrows and the master sword/lens of truth on their side. Kain will be a nonfactor, despite your wank. "He can tleeportz!" won't save him from things he can't react to, and he's low on reaction feats, I'm sorry to say.

I dont, something being gameplay does not make it a gameplay mechanic. If Dark nuts can break out quicker than most enemies who may not be able to break it at all then chances are thats a function of the ice arrows.

Nah, not really, your Link loving is not going to hype him up beyond his slow speeds. He could never draw his sword and strike Bayonetta or Kain before they kill him.

lol, Kain can kill the whole of Team 1 with Blood shower and gain all their powers, he can also slow the whole of team 1 down with his time powers and unlike Dante/Link can teleport further distances so he can get his time aura where Team 2 needs it. Just a few powers of Kain, he could also turn it into 5 vs 4 if he uses inspire hate or make the whole of Team 1 fight eachother while Team 2 rest easy with the Soul reavers version of inspire hate.

Although I am just worried about "LoZ" wank from you, not Kain wank.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Well, it can probably do so to Kain, and Bayonetta. Not sure if it'd work on the Lich King or War. Regardless. Kratos is being overlooked far too much lately.

That's what I'm sayin'.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Not really, if hes not got any of his weapons prepared apart from his bow then Bayonetta or another quick character could take him unprepared.

Mortal draw sounds like gameplay, in a real fight he would somehow have to drop his bow, draw his sword etc and he would still be less his shield which I assume he would put on his back when using his bow.

Indeed

Mortal Draw is a learned technique, complete with cutscenes, dialogue, and gameplay. Somebody's gonna swallow Master Sword if they try to approach.

They don't Every enemy in gameplay breaks out after a short time or they'd be an instant win against every enemy and there'd be no point in using anything else.

Except he has great reaction feats, and this move is almost impossible to defend against, and highly lethal. Any character on team 2, especially Kain, who tries to take Link out unassisted because they think the guy with the bow is an easy target is in for a day-ruining surprise.


This is why iChaos was laughing at you. I'm going to join him.

haermm

If I ever want to catch up to your massive Kain wank I'll need a pair of extra hands.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Mortal Draw is a learned technique, complete with cutscenes, dialogue, and gameplay. Somebody's gonna swallow Master Sword if they try to approach.



Show me Link in a cutscene doing this please. As I said, gameplay is what Link does when his sword/weapons appear without him actually attempting to get them. In a VS this is not the case, this is a fight based on realism not gameplay mechanics. Hes not going to have his bow suddenly disapear and be replaced by sword and shield.

And ScreamPaste is right indeed (about the laughing part, I mean).

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
They don't Every enemy in gameplay breaks out after a short time or they'd be an instant win against every enemy and there'd be no point in using anything else.

Except he has great reaction feats, and this move is almost impossible to defend against, and highly lethal. Any character on team 2, especially Kain, who tries to take Link out unassisted because they think the guy with the bow is an easy target is in for a day-ruining surprise.


This is why iChaos was laughing at you. I'm going to join him.

haermm

If I ever want to catch up to your massive Kain wank I'll need a pair of extra hands.

Thats not what Zeldapedia claims, it said that Dark nuts break out almost instantly while some enemies its slow.

Not really, this is just some Link love as I said, keep this out of my thread please and use real feats, not assumed ones.

This is why iChaos never actually posts an argument, because there is no argument. Like you he was trashed by me in another thread and his ass is throbbing red.

Not really, just "supersonic 1000 ton linkzor!"

He can just drop the bow, and if you didn't clue in, the mortal draw is a move where he draws his sword.
o_sIxZjBims

Edit: someone's in denial. Claiming someone else's ass was throbbign red is a bit ironic, coming from you, BT.

As I said, as he drops the bow bayonetta pops open Links eyes with her guns , or Kain impales him with a dimentional teleport, the reaver exploding him into little green piecies.

Originally posted by Burning thought]This is why iChaos never actually posts an argument, because there is no argument. Like you he was trashed by me in another thread and his ass is throbbing red.

/facepalm

No. Just...no.

So wheres your argument then?

Whoever said I was arguing ?

I lol'd. Kain especially would be screwed if he attempted this. Link can react to Zant's teleportation, which occurs quicker than Kain's. If Kain attempts this, he's eatign a mortal draw, and out of the fight.

Originally posted by iChaos
Whoever said I was arguing ?

yes I didnt think so, go and troll somewhere else plz?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I lol'd. Kain especially would be screwed if he attempted this. Link can react to Zant's teleportation, which occurs quicker than Kain's. If Kain attempts this, he's eatign a mortal draw, and out of the fight.


Not really, Zants teleportion? show me......Zants not quick, Kain can hit a guy within about 200 milliseconds which is quicker than the time it takes for someone to even realise something is going on, let alone react to it.

If Kain broke off from beating Ganon into the ground like an old carpet and decided to kill the annoying little urchin launching light arrows at the LK he could turn around before Link even realised what was going on and in a flash assuming Link even noticed Kains eyes on him in the first place would be standing with the reaver in Links head. Links not got precog....

yes because Kains not had his chest torn out along with his heart and survived...oh w8!

.250 milliseconds is /average human/ reaction time. .200 is pie for Link, far less than it takes to even cut arrows out of the air. (Which Link does in TP.)

As for Kain beating Ganon, I lol'd. Like I said, I'd need extra hands to keep uo with your Kain wank. Ganon would one shot Kain.

Ever had his head removed, and his torso neatly bisected? Even if he "survives" he's incapacitated.

Originally posted by Burning thought
yes because Kains not had his chest torn out along with his heart and survived...oh w8!

...by Raziel who he was too weak and slow to beat.

Dante could just teleport in and kill Kain.

Anyone on team 1 would hand Kain his ass, to be blunt, it'd just be especially foolish of him to actually hand himself to one of them.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
.250 milliseconds is /average human/ reaction time. .200 is pie for Link, far less than it takes to even cut arrows out of the air. (Which Link does in TP.)

As for Kain beating Ganon, I lol'd. Like I said, I'd need extra hands to keep uo with your Kain wank. Ganon would one shot Kain.

Ever had his head removed, and his torso neatly bisected? Even if he "survives" he's incapacitated.

Show me this average, I thought that was the average time for a human to "percieve" the object he was reacting to, not actually reacting to it. Also prove this "cutting arrows" out of the air feat, not to mension the speed the arrows move. Its also important to note if Link did it off hand without actually having any idea this could happen.

Nah, Ganons not that strong, even with "infinite" power some old men and knights sealed him up. Not that Ganon has any good feats, thing is Kain would one shot Ganon.

Assuming Link could even cut Kain mortal draw does not do that. It just looked like a slash to me, and not really, mist form ftw.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
...by Raziel who he was too weak and slow to beat.

After being slashed by the reaver and weakened in a fight before the scene. Kains shown to be more than adequate speed to stop Raziel. PIS mostly tbh.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Dante could just teleport in and kill Kain.

When has Dante teleported further than a few meters though? I didnt think Dante even had a propper teleport, I dont ever remember using one, only trickster?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Anyone on team 1 would hand Kain his ass, to be blunt, it'd just be especially foolish of him to actually hand himself to one of them.

Not really, as I said, time slow/blood shower= Team 1 dead. Drop in a repel shield and Kain gets magic immunity and at least one strikes worth of physical resistane from one of them. Techincally anyone on Team 2 could one shot most from Team 1 as well.

This is crap.


As much as you say how Dante is too fast for Link to react to, who actually /does/ have reaction feats, here's where I stab you with your own sword. You cannot possibly think that Kain can react to Dante if you believe that Link cannot.

Blood shower's never worked on a durable being, repel shield is sad, and has only deflectewd minor bolts in gameplay, and Kain is the slowest and most frail character in this thread.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
This is crap.


As much as you say how Dante is too fast for Link to react to, who actually /does/ have reaction feats, here's where I stab you with your own sword. You cannot possibly think that Kain can react to Dante if you believe that Link cannot.


Maybe to your version of Ganon but the canon verson, this happened.

Kain does not have to react to Dante, hes not reacting to anything with the tactics I just outlined....but no, your right since neither Kain or link can react to Dante. Not a lot of people can apart from Bayonetta.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Blood shower's never worked on a durable being, repel shield is sad, and has only deflectewd minor bolts in gameplay, and Kain is the slowest and most frail character in this thread.

Durability is not a factor silly, thats like saying Links sword has not worked on anyone with a sexy earring like Kain....Repel shield works fine, it reflects spells which is its canon purpose so complaining is not going to help.

I lold, Kain is quicker than the majority with only the real speedsters beating him. His also probably the most durable here by far, and the more "endurant" since he can take daft punishment or mist to escape physical damage altogether.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Show me this average, I thought that was the average time for a human to "percieve" the object he was reacting to, not actually reacting to it. Also prove this "cutting arrows" out of the air feat, not to mension the speed the arrows move. Its also important to note if Link did it off hand without actually having any idea this could happen.


Watch Mythbusters.

Unfortunately for you, this means that Kain doesn't get to decide how or when Dante decapitates him.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Unfortunately for you, this means that Kain doesn't get to decide how or when Dante decapitates him.

It just means that his actions counter Dantes before Dante decides to attack him whether through time slowing or mist forming. Or kill Dante outright with bloodshower/soul disruption.

Dante is the most dangerous foe for Team 2 for sure.

Trickster is based on 'Disappear in the blink of an eye' moves. So the more he puts into it the further he could of, 'sides Dantes the fastest one here. QS beats Reaver time power.

Ganondorf's death curse was actually Gohma. Meaning he killed the Deku Tree by summoning a giant spider inside him. He did similar to Jabu-Jabu, by summoning a giant electric jellyfish into his innards. This is before he acquired the Triforce of Power, mind. Also, he brought the dodnogos back to life, since they were an extinct species as of OoT.

He is also able to banish someone to the gap between dimensions if he wants to. Or send someone into the Dark World, where they transform to reflect their true natures. Alternatively, he could just break the continent.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Trickster is based on 'Disappear in the blink of an eye' moves. So the more he puts into it the further he could of, 'sides Dantes the fastest one here. QS beats Reaver time power.

So its not an actual teleport, its speed hence why he could not teleport near Kain unless Kain was very close.

Not really, they do pretty much the same thing.....only Kain has an actual teleport so he can put his aura anywhere on the battlefield.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Ganondorf's death curse was actually Gohma. Meaning he killed the Deku Tree by summoning a giant spider inside him. He did similar to Jabu-Jabu, by summoning a giant electric jellyfish into his innards. This is before he acquired the Triforce of Power, mind. Also, he brought the dodnogos back to life, since they were an extinct species as of OoT.

He is also able to banish someone to the gap between dimensions if he wants to. Or send someone into the Dark World, where they transform to reflect their true natures. Alternatively, he could just break the continent.

The last powers you mentioned take time, time he may not have. Unless the feat for "banishing" is not the slow move of Tking his puppet down a hole on the ground?

Also "true natures" probably would not help Ganon in the case of Kain/LK and for war? this would just make War vastly more powerful.

Doesn't Jester teleport faster than Kain? Anyway, Kratos would probably end up ripping the little green vampire in half.

i dont know, I remember Jester was insanely quick when he dances upside down with Dante shooting at him, but that particulour feat may not be teleport.

Point being Kain could do a teleport/time slow combo without warning, most feats involving reaction time is based on someone usually being able to predict something happening.

Dante could easily cancel out Kain's time powers with QS.

So, we all agree Team one wins, yes?

If he was already under the effect of the time powers then he would be slowed, as would him "turning around slowly" to see Kain in the first place.

Also Kain would have until Dante turns around, percieves Kain, uses quicksilver and strikes. That would take some time even if he is generally faster. Kain could have done a "blood shower" by then.


Originally posted by LLLLLink
So, we all agree Team one wins, yes?

the "lollovelink" team probably decided Team 1 wins as soon as they reached "link" on the thread name.....

Yes.

In the Dark World, evil creatures typically become Ganon's servants. Even if they were to get more powerful, it wouldn't help them since they are now trapped in another dimension.

Still, no one can really counter Ganondorf's Darkness Technique, especially if he combines it with the eternal storm and endless night curse.

Originally posted by The Scenario
In the Dark World, evil creatures typically become Ganon's servants. Even if they were to get more powerful, it wouldn't help them since they are now trapped in another dimension.

Still, no one can really counter Ganondorf's Darkness Technique, especially if he combines it with the eternal storm and endless night curse.

Can you show me these feats? trapping someone in the dark world for one but I have never even heard of these last techniques.

Thats not necesserily true, 3 characters on Team 2 (all except for war) can displace themselves from the current dimension for at least an instant.

vPCMkhITFFM
1:12

7xobIRMpzdc

Ganondorf's curse ripped the island to pieces and created an eternal storm over it. Link is unable to use the Song of Passing to make the sun rise, so it's also eternally night.

This is /before/ Ganon's full power is unsealed. His full strength is still being held back by the master sword when he does this.

Ganondorf notworthy

Originally posted by The Scenario
vPCMkhITFFM
1:12

7xobIRMpzdc

Ganondorf's curse ripped the island to pieces and created an eternal storm over it. Link is unable to use the Song of Passing to make the sun rise, so it's also eternally night.

Who was that? it says Agahnim at the top, not Ganon? the power takes 3 seconds to do, Link was only a few meters away so the range may not be too great. also I imagine Link got out of the Dark world so I cannot see how this could permanently stops anyone on Team 2, assuming they allowed Ganon to do it.

Edit: he also went with Link when he ported, so he did not send someone to the dark realm alone. There is probably lists of exceptions that may make a diffrence with this power determined by the diffrence between that scene and this battle.


Thats all very well but we dont know how long it took for Ganon to actually break those islands or make the storm do we? it could have taken him minutes, hours, a whole day of spell incantations?

Dante3 has one (or two) teleports and the rest are moves fast ebough to be teleports. Vergil difinatly can and Dante4 is vastly more evolved then anything from 3. Not to mention his QS 'stops time' opposed to slowing time.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Thats all very well but we dont know how long it took for Ganon to actually break those islands or make the storm do we? it could have taken him minutes, hours, a whole day of spell incantations?

And here is where you start inserting fanon into the thread..... again....

Because it /always/ takes Ganon so long to use magi- wait, no it doesn't. Infact, it's never taken him long to use even his most complex magic.