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Five fencers have been nominated, and may compete:


This event is a competition of pure skill with each athlete's chosen fighting style. The rules are as follows:
-All physical attrtibutes, including size, are equalised. This prevents unfair scenarios where skill becomes less important due to strength. (Being unable to defned yourself because an opponenet is so strong he'll kill you anyway, does not prove his skill, for example.)
-Unorthodox fighting styles are allowed, but no dirty play.
-The fighters are given a set of non-magical, and yet somehow unbreakable, olympic equipment equivelant to what they're used to fighting with.
-Round robin play. Each fighter fights each other fighter once. Whoever comes out with the most wins, earns gold, ect.
-No powers, abilities, magic, or other non-sword-fighty actions may be taken.
-This is not a poll

Who takes gold?

raphael.

dude wrote the book on the fencing.

plus being an actual fencer would help.. if this was just sword fighting in general maybe not but considering that this is fencing only? raph takes it!

Fencing really, is just a general term for sword fighting, but is most often associated with rapiers. In this event, it means all sword fighting.

so metaknight's 'cape that allows him to fly' isnt allowed i take it?

also, is speed equalized too?
cuz that would cut down metaknight's and vergil's main advantage, as they can both fight at mach 1

I'd have to say Marth, he's been trained since he was a child in every sort of sword fighting and went on to defeat an empire.

Marth is a cool guy, one shot's the final boss and doesn't afraid of magic.

In MK's case it also nullifies the disadvantage of being eight inches tall.

But yeah, for this event's purposes all physical stats are equalised to make it purely skill based. I already have other events for speed/strength, this one is for swordsmanship.

I knew MK was fast, but when did he actually fight at mach 1, btw? /Curious.

Edit: But yeah. If MK could speed blitz Marth and Rapheal, it would be kind of unfair, two free wins, and a free loss for each of them. Same for Vergil. That's not a skill based win.

its stated he can swing his sword at mach 1
not to mention he create a tornado of flame just by using his sword's fire ability and spinning really fast
imo kirby should have taken his place, as he is technically the better sword fighter..

I didn't nominate him, The only characters here I did nominate are Marth and Link.

I just make the threads. Don't shoot the messenger. D:

lol!

So, are special moves like Helm Splitter allowed?

okay i get you

i dont think this thread can have a definitive winner, then. it is too hard to gauge pure skill, especially for characters that have powers. "skill" is something that is inherent and while it can be sharpened by experience it does not come from it... so experience itself isnt definitive and because many of these people are assisted in their endeavors by powers (or at least above human stats) you cant really use their feats either.

so, i dunno.

Yes.

Link could even spin attack if he wanted, he just can't amplify it with magic like he normally would. Same goes for MetaKnight, and everyone else with special attacks. They may use them, just without amplifying them magicly.

Helm Splitter is non magical, and therefore allowed.

This is true, but we've always tried before.

Skill only? Probably Raphael.
Vergil has skill, but most of his fights are based on his speed which the TC has excluded.
Link, screw 'im .
Dunno enough about Marth and MT.

if vergil or meta move at their natural speed they win

if not i have no idea who wins

Link doesn't get his normal durability, so that's a bummer. Shield FTW!!!

Or his strength.

Originally posted by MadMel
if vergil or meta move at their natural speed they win

if not i have no idea who wins

Mostly what he said ^; 'cept I "nominate" Raphael.

~ On a side note, how can we include Vergil if he is denied access to his speed? His entire style is mostly based on it (Iaido).

Everyone is suffering penalties here, not just Vergil.

Well, in the spirit of this being the "olympics", it would be wrong to have characters like Link, MK, and Vergil rape Marth and Rapheal due to super human strength and speed that can't be beaten through skill, and we'd have our 3 medalists right off the bat.

Without those super human physical attributes, we level the playing field, and the most skilled will take gold.

I still think that a shield is a massive advantage here...

Well yes, but in the case of Link, he doesn't suffer one that is the 'entire' focus of his swordplay afaik. Neither does Raphael. I don't know enough about Marth and MT, neither do I have a clue on their style.

Whereas with Vergil, his style is mostly based on quick-drawing. Forget Yamato's properties, I have no problem with that.

Though fair enough, I'll drop it.

i nominate Raphael too then

Hmm....
In Soul Calibur 2, Link displayed some nice prowess that was comparable to Raph. It isn't a canon comparison, but it does give an idea how the fight might look.

Nintendo's only involvement in SC2 was licensing

Lol, Link is for hire.

I would pick Vergil but Iaido isn't an effective swordstyle to use in a fight.

I pick Raphael since he's the master of the rapier and fencing comes natural to him. The silver medal goes to Link since he had sword training before his adventure and learned techniques from an ancient warrior. I doubt his mortal draw is a magical attack. It's more like a pressure point strike where he strikes a vulnerable area that causes the most damage.

Here's my estimation on how things should go.

Vergil < Marth. Marth's fighting style is more practical, as Sin mentioned.
Vergil > Meta Knight. Short sword v.s. Katana = bad for the guy with the short sword.
Vergil < Link. Link has a more practical fighting style, range advantage, and skill.
Vergil = Raphael. Rapheal has skill, but Vergil's weapon has a practical advantage.

MetaKnight < Vergil.
MetaKnight > Rapheal. MetaKnight is very skilled and the rapier is much less effective against an enemy inside your range. If MK closes the gap, he wins.
MetaKnight < Marth. Marth's sword, while more effective at range, is still effective in close quarters.
MetaKnight < Link. See Marth.

Marth > Vergil. More practical fighting style and sword design = win.
Marth > MK. Dangerous both at range and in close, both are skilled, Marth's weapon is better.
Marth = Raphael. Both want to stay at range and poke each other, neither seem to have a definitive skill advantage.
Marth < Link. They're weapons are similar, but I think Link's more aggressive style would take it. I also can't see Marth countering Mortal Draw or a Helm Splitter.

Raphael = Vergil.
Raphael = Marth.
Raphael < MK.
Raphael < Link. His own creators had him lose to Link in SC2. D:!

This leaves me, with my admittedly biased opinion of

Link > all. 131

Link: 5 wins.
Marth: 2 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss.
Vergil: 1 win, 1 draw, 2 losses.
MetaKnight: 1 win, 3 losses.
Raphael 2 draws, 2 losses.

I vote for Raphael. Everything equialised, I think his skills are the best on the list.

eqjlgouqRYQ

Going with Vergil for Gold. He was also trained as a child to be an expert weaponist, and even with the powers/feats limited he'll still be using the max speed available at all times.

Based on all opponents:
Vergil
Marth
Link/Rapheal
Metaknight

What max speed? With the speed limit in place, his 'quick-draw' (Iaido) strikes will be read and dealt with by everyone he fights. He has no option but to rely on pure swordplay, and we don't see much of it in DMC3.

Don't get me wrong, he's good with 'regular' swordplay, but he hasn't demonstrated as much skill with it as the others; mainly due to his reliance on his speed and Yamato's supposed ability to cut through anything.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Here's my estimation on how things should go.

Vergil < Marth. Marth's fighting style is more practical, as Sin mentioned.
Vergil > Meta Knight. Short sword v.s. Katana = bad for the guy with the short sword.
Vergil < Link. Link has a more practical fighting style, range advantage, and skill.
Vergil = Raphael. Rapheal has skill, but Vergil's weapon has a practical advantage.

MetaKnight < Vergil.
MetaKnight > Rapheal. MetaKnight is very skilled and the rapier is much less effective against an enemy inside your range. If MK closes the gap, he wins.
MetaKnight < Marth. Marth's sword, while more effective at range, is still effective in close quarters.
MetaKnight < Link. See Marth.

Marth > Vergil. More practical fighting style and sword design = win.
Marth > MK. Dangerous both at range and in close, both are skilled, Marth's weapon is better.
Marth = Raphael. Both want to stay at range and poke each other, neither seem to have a definitive skill advantage.
Marth < Link. They're weapons are similar, but I think Link's more aggressive style would take it. I also can't see Marth countering Mortal Draw or a Helm Splitter.

Raphael = Vergil.
Raphael = Marth.
Raphael < MK.
Raphael < Link. His own creators had him lose to Link in SC2. D:!

This leaves me, with my admittedly biased opinion of

Link > all. 131

Link: 5 wins.
Marth: 2 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss.
Vergil: 1 win, 1 draw, 2 losses.
MetaKnight: 1 win, 3 losses.
Raphael 2 draws, 2 losses.

Lol, you are such a fanboy!

Actually in the canon of SC2 Raphael didn't lose to Link if they actually crossed paths then Raphael won seeing as the whole game ended with Raph vs Nightmare and he actually stalemated him/they beat each other. Hell in SC2, Raphael's Soul Edge was the real version of Soul Edge and not just the custom version with custom effects for each character.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
What max speed? With the speed limit in place, his 'quick-draw' (Iaido) strikes will be read and dealt with by everyone he fights. He has no option but to rely on pure swordplay, and we don't see much of it in DMC3.

Don't get me wrong, he's good with 'regular' swordplay, but he hasn't demonstrated as much skill with it as the others; mainly due to his reliance on his speed and Yamato's supposed ability to cut through anything.

Max speed that is allowed here. Im thinking that the Dante vs Vergil fight is a good demonstration as they both showed equal speed which you can just turn that down and it would be what he would be doing here. Plus it shows he's skilled as he beat an expert swordsman without much trouble. (Dante whose speed was around the same for the fight)

what?

I'm gonna say Meta Knight as you can't simply swing a sword at mach 1. You still have to be able to control it and make good strikes.

Link for Silver and Marth for Bronze.

They couldn't very well have had Link's ending be the canon one.

In his ending though, the only one he figures into, he smites Raphael, which you have to admit, is pretty awesome.

Edit: No one picked up on it, but I listed Link for five wins when there's only four possible matches for him to fight. Where are the yells of fanboy? I practicly volunteered. D:

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Actually in the canon of SC2 Raphael didn't lose to Link if they actually crossed paths then Raphael won seeing as the whole game ended with Raph vs Nightmare and he actually stalemated him/they beat each other.

Raphael's version isn't the canon one.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Hell in SC2, Raphael's Soul Edge was the real version of Soul Edge and not just the custom version with custom effects for each character.

First, Raphael's Soul Edge was just a rapier with some veins.
Second, Soul Edge is able to shapeshift, so you really cant claim Raph had the canon one when there candidates with much better presentations.
Besides, in SC2, Soul Edge was incomplete because all of the parts hadn't been reunited yet.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
With the speed limit in place, his 'quick-draw' (Iaido) strikes will be read and dealt with by everyone he fights. He has no option but to rely on pure swordplay, and we don't see much of it in DMC3.

Throughout DMC3 he uses Battojutsu and some form of Shinkendo imo, and he's just as good with pure swordplay.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I'm gonna say Meta Knight as you can't simply swing a sword at mach 1. You still have to be able to control it and make good strikes.

Link for Silver and Marth for Bronze.

Maybe Kirby gives MK some "D.I.C.K.", eh?

Well, that isn't what I was thinking at all, but it brings up another point. Meta Knight isn't unbeatable in the Kirbyverse, Kirby beats him. So even with Mach 1 sword strikes he has people that give him a challenge, thereby proving he has to have some skill. That's also a pretty epic reaction time feat for Kirby.

He also beat Galacta Knight which is pretty impressive. Lance vs Sword? Yeah.

o_O Well, he still lost.

It's possible that equalised speed could put a dent in his fighting style, the same way it does to Vergil.

I can't see him takng matches off of Link or Marth, either. But that's just me.

That's because you're still mad at Sakurai for MK in Brawl. So am I, but I can always Give a Damn Cancel.

And big deal he lost. Even with equalized speed, wouldn't he still see the other sword strikes coming a mile away?

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Raphael's version isn't the canon one.



First, Raphael's Soul Edge was just a rapier with some veins.
Second, Soul Edge is able to shapeshift, so you really cant claim Raph had the canon one when there candidates with much better presentations.
Besides, in SC2, Soul Edge was incomplete because all of the parts hadn't been reunited yet.

Uh yeah Raphael's ending is the canon one. SC3 even supports this when they say Raphael and Siegfried fought and their battle freed Siegfried from Soul Edge while at the same time Raphael was infected and slowly became a vampire. At the end of SC2 Raphael was the actual one to fight Siegfried.

This is from a Soul Calibur Wikia page.

Nope. Not anymore than anyone else.

I saw a nomination for Galen, too late to vote? or is it just the 5 listed?

Just the five listed.

@%$#*

ok then, Raphael

Given what Wei said about SC2, Raphael I suppose.

I like how Nightmare only got one nomination... >.> And how would Dark Khan even be able to do fencing? haermm

I'm not the one who +1'd him for every category. <_<

But yeah. If Link had been in SC, he woulda taken out Raphael. 131

I'm curious how you guys are interpretting individual match ups, though? o.O

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

I'm curious how you guys are interpretting individual match ups, though? o.O

how so?

Well, it's a round robin tournament.

Each fighter fights each other fighter once. Sooo, we'd need to interpret who > who to figure who gets the most wins.

So far people have named someone they think will win, but no one's really made an analysis o:

I vote Raphael, smart mocking mouth, his style is composed of offense and defensive moves, parrying, countering, he taught Amy who's pretty bad ass herself. He's a fencing master.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Uh yeah Raphael's ending is the canon one. SC3 even supports this when they say Raphael and Siegfried fought and their battle freed Siegfried from Soul Edge while at the same time Raphael was infected and slowly became a vampire. At the end of SC2 Raphael was the actual one to fight Siegfried.

This is from a Soul Calibur Wikia page.

Didn't he defeat Nightmare and Inferno in his ending? That isn't canon, as canonically, he lost to Nightmare in an intense duel, after which he stabbed Soul Edge. That was how Siegfried was able to regain control of his body.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Didn't he defeat Nightmare and Inferno in his ending? That isn't canon, as canonically, he lost to Nightmare in an intense duel, after which he stabbed Soul Edge. That was how Siegfried was able to regain control of his body.

That's defeating Nightmare, I never said he beat Inferno, I hope I didn't convey that message for I don't want to intentionally spread false information. He was about to lose to Nightmare and die, but his determination forced his body to deliver one more blow which gave him the victory over Nightmare and freed Siegfried.

You or the Link guy said Raphael's ending is canon. In his ending, he has already defeated them. He then returns to Amy with Soul Edge. That isn't canon.

Facing off against Nightmare is canon.

Meh, doesn't matter anyway.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Given what Wei said about SC2, Raphael I suppose.

I like how Nightmare only got one nomination... >.> And how would Dark Khan even be able to do fencing? haermm

He'll just infect the others with RAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGEEEEEEEEEE! DK wins the olympics.

wait i withdraw my vote for raphael. i didn't see Vergil there. My vote goes to him. Blinding speed, incredible reaction time, able to catch bullets in the air. Also has defense skills that i would venture forth to say as impenetrable, also has disarming techniques from a sword lock with Dante.

We is to strong and skilled for normal human reaction time which is what we are dealing with

Improper choice of wording on my part then which I'll happily admit fault. What I was trying to convey was that Raphael was the one who fought Nightmare and won, although he got lucky, not a stomping not that he beat Nightmare then went on to beat Inferno and gain the sword.

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
wait i withdraw my vote for raphael. i didn't see Vergil there. My vote goes to him. Blinding speed, incredible reaction time, able to catch bullets in the air. Also has defense skills that i would venture forth to say as impenetrable, also has disarming techniques from a sword lock with Dante.

We is to strong and skilled for normal human reaction time which is what we are dealing with

Wouldn't speed be a part of physical attributes that are all equaled?

Originally posted by Maester_yoda
wait i withdraw my vote for raphael. i didn't see Vergil there. My vote goes to him. Blinding speed, incredible reaction time, able to catch bullets in the air. Also has defense skills that i would venture forth to say as impenetrable, also has disarming techniques from a sword lock with Dante.

We is to strong and skilled for normal human reaction time which is what we are dealing with
Speed, reaction-time etc. are all equalized for everyone. So Vergil's corresponding attributes would be significantly lowered.

Bollocks, I know. SC wanted Link to win, so he nerfed everyone .

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Improper choice of wording on my part then which I'll happily admit fault. What I was trying to convey was that Raphael was the one who fought Nightmare and won, although he got lucky, not a stomping not that he beat Nightmare then went on to beat Inferno and gain the sword.

Gotcha, happens to the best of us.

darn...it. well then DARN!!!!!!! ok im cool and calm....Vergil wins for looking good while doing it

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Uh yeah Raphael's ending is the canon one. SC3 even supports this when they say Raphael and Siegfried fought and their battle freed Siegfried from Soul Edge while at the same time Raphael was infected and slowly became a vampire. At the end of SC2 Raphael was the actual one to fight Siegfried.

This is from a Soul Calibur Wikia page.

I didn't get a chance to play SC3, so perhaps you are right, but I'd like to see something besides a wikia, because it sounds a little....you know...

Raphael held his own against Nightmare despite being of pretty much human attributes. I guess that's something.

Originally posted by LLLLLink
I didn't get a chance to play SC3, so perhaps you are right, but I'd like to see something besides a wikia, because it sounds a little....you know...

This supports what I just said and the wikia verbatim I believe. Raphael fought Nightmare.

UmYemXPo-6A

Okies, thanks much.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He'll just infect the others with RAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGEEEEEEEEEE! DK wins the olympics.
Dark Khan will materialize a sword from his own RAGE so he'll be able to compete in the fencing portion... and then do what you said.

I had these rules drawn up before Link was officially in this event AND Link is nerfed too. He's strong enough normally that no one else in this thread would be able to defend against his strikes.

Everyone is nerfed.

I will not deny that I'd like to see Link win though. That much is true, but I'm not letting my bias effect the Olympics :O!

I don't see Raphael at nerfed at all outside he can't bite anyone and turn them, but that's not really a big deal or anything. Out of everyone here, he is the most basic yet advanced at the same time. He doesn't suffer a strength, speed, size, nor durability downgrade.

Human characters with good skill who could nevercompete with the 'high tier' characters are why I included the restriction. It'd be nice to see Altair for insance, go up against someone in this thread without getting splattered.

lWu7b80qIWg I remain convinced Link beats Raphael. He outfights Raphael in his own game. It's non-canon, yeah (Link was never actually in SCII by canon, obv.), but the implication is there.

All of the special guests fought Raphael, including Heihachi and Spawn. They fought him because he made it to the castle to fight Nightmare first.

Yeah I know it's noncanon and irrelevant here, I don't know why you keep on bringing it up. It's not really an implication from Namco or anyone on what would happen, it's his story, of course he's going to win since you're playing as him. That's like saying Baek can beat Jin Kazama because he faces off against him in his ending. Everyone tends to win in their story mode in fighting games. Regular Link would win pretty easily, Link under these circumstances doesn't in my opinion.

This is true... mmm

Alright. Helm splitter?

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
...how would Dark Khan even be able to do fencing? haermm

You know not the power of the RAGE, RP!
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'm not the one who +1'd him for every category. <_<


That's right, Scream. RAGE!!!

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He'll just infect the others with RAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGEEEEEEEEEE! DK wins the olympics.

Spoken like a true believer of RAGE!

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Dark Khan will materialize a sword from his own RAGE so he'll be able to compete in the fencing portion... and then do what you said.

RAAAAGGGGEEEE!!!!

....rage?

Kain would have theoretically floored this competition.

Actually, with his total lack of comparable swordsmanship feats to anyone here... No.

few "feats" hence why I said theoretically, he has vaslty more combat/sword use experiance. Although his Censure and Laceration moves would not do bad.

In this thread if you want to talk technical experience, Link would still be the most "experienced", Kain's lived longer overall, but Link's been reincarnated several times and done much more fighting.

I don't know how experienced MK is, you don't see many sword users in Kirby, but Marth and Raphael are both probably more experienced than Kain as well. Vergil is probably a bit less experienced than Kain, but experience isn't everything.

Experience contributes to skill, but it doesn't equate to skill. These characters all have showings of their skill to back their experience, which puts them above someone with more experience, but fewer showings of skill.

Their different people, Kain is ancient, is the general at the front of several battles and uses the same sword all the time. But anyway, Kains not in this thread, I was just saying for the sake of lulz.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I don't know how experienced MK is


Experienced enough to fight Kirby at Mach 1.

The same could be said for Vergil.

Can Vergil beat a Lance user at Mach 1 using a sword?

I'm going to say yes. Also, Galacta knight was mach 1, too?

Really, fighting speed is a moot point in this thread. Spiderman for example, is a bullet timer with some hand to hand skill, but if you gave him identical physical attributes to a normally slower character with more skill, he'd lose.

MK's good, I don't think ability to fight at his natural speed is technicly a skill feat though.

Semi-irrelevant post: Spider-Man trained under Captain America and possibly Wolverine IIRC. He's actually way more skilled than a lot of people believe, although being a bullet timer in Marvel isn't that great since nearly everyone can do that. Hell Captain America outran a bullet. Take away his speed, strength and webbing and I suppose his Sense and he'd still be a beast to contend with, if he still has his flexibility then he's even capable. An example I would've used for skill would be Juggernaut vs Thor.

Way to pick apart my example! D:

My point stands though

It does, but we have to do this the right way.

Really, fighting speed is a moot point in this thread. The Flash for example, is a bullet timer and FTL with some hand to hand skill, but if you gave him identical physical attributes to a normally slower character with more skill like Batman, he'd lose.

I approve.