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http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/25807/700849-mrxpage_large.jpg

vs.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/588172-foe_prmth_cv1_large.jpg

The tranqs would be useless since Mr.X can easily block them.. the neural chaff might effect how X powers work the hypno lights might also further throw him off his game..

i'll say Prometheus for now, i can have my mind changed with evidence.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
The tranqs would be useless since Mr.X can easily block them.. the neural chaff might effect how X powers work the hypno lights might also further throw him off his game..

i'll say Prometheus for now, i can have my mind changed with evidence.

The hypo lights won't work cuz X will have his shades on.

Given the level of his suit when he last took on the Justice League, Prometheus with ease. He seems to be A LOT more powerful than before, and his suit is actively scanning and calculating how to defeat his foes. If he was vulnerable to telepathic attack, one would assume the Martian could have taken him down, which is another thing to consider.

Originally posted by Desaad
Given the level of his suit when he last took on the Justice League, Prometheus with ease. He seems to be A LOT more powerful than before, and his suit is actively scanning and calculating how to defeat his foes. If he was vulnerable to telepathic attack, one would assume the Martian could have taken him down, which is another thing to consider.

X isn't a telepath. He locks onto impulses and instinctively counters whatever you have going for you.

He's a telepath who reads minds, according to his first appearance.

Originally posted by Desaad
He's a telepath who reads minds, according to his first appearance.
Thats what people believed, though it true he also has the ability to lock on opponents impulses which has been stated repeatedly and displayed on pannel.

Though, Prometheus doesn't fight primarily with his own skill, but rather skills programmed on a disk via his helmet.

I'd think that'd throw off X's power, especially if he swapped around a lot.

Then how was he defeated by Wolverine in savage mode? Surely even if his conscious mind didn't know what he was about to do, his cerebral impulses would have been the same.

The marvel bio says he's a low level telepath

Originally posted by Q99
Though, Prometheus doesn't fight primarily with his own skill, but rather skills programmed on a disk via his helmet.

I'd think that'd throw off X's power, especially if he swapped around a lot.
I dont think you understand how X powers work.........

Originally posted by Desaad
Then how was he defeated by Wolverine in savage mode? Surely even if his conscious mind didn't know what he was about to do, his cerebral impulses would have been the same.
There not when he berserker thats the problem. People dont understand Wolveriens mind actaully alters into another state of beinging and his mind and body increase in speed greatly. This through Mister X off, this is not something really anyone else can reprodue.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
The marvel bio says he's a low level telepath

On pannel evidence>>>>>Bio.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
On pannel evidence>>>>>Bio. I know just saying
EDIT: btw triple post ftw

Originally posted by Parmaniac
I know just saying
EDIT: btw triple post ftw
was going for the quadrupole post until you ruined it

Originally posted by Battlehammer
was going for the quadrupole post until you ruined it Then I keep going

Originally posted by Battlehammer
There not when he berserker thats the problem. People dont understand Wolveriens mind actaully alters into another state of beinging and his mind and body increase in speed greatly. This through Mister X off, this is not something really anyone else can reprodue.

Uh, no.

The whole logic behind Wolverine defeat Mister X while in "Berzerker" mode wasn't that Wolverine becomes stronger, or faster, but that he is no longer in conscious control of his actions. He doesn't know what he's going to do before he does it. That is why Wolverine didn't try it until he knew the real reason behind X's effectiveness.

That wouldn't change the fact that his BODY knows what it's going to do, of course, which is why the whole 'reads brain impulses' doesn't hold up to any sort of scrutiny. In that appearance, he's specifically referred to as a low level telepath, and I'm inclined to believe that that is exactly what he is, based on the evidence. At the very least it makes him inconsistent.

Originally posted by Desaad
Uh, no.

The whole logic behind Wolverine defeat Mister X while in "Berzerker" mode wasn't that Wolverine becomes stronger, or faster, but that he is no longer in conscious control of his actions. He doesn't know what he's going to do before he does it. That is why Wolverine didn't try it until he knew the real reason behind X's effectiveness.
Thats what Wolverine believed, thats not what actually happen. There two different things, wolverine did not understand how mister x powers work, he hypothesized what his powers were and was wrong.

Do you want me to post scans of how mister X powers work as stated on pannel?

Originally posted by Desaad
That wouldn't change the fact that his BODY knows what it's going to do, of course, which is why the whole 'reads brain impulses' doesn't hold up to any sort of scrutiny. In that appearance, he's specifically referred to as a low level telepath, and I'm inclined to believe that that is exactly what he is, based on the evidence. At the very least it makes him inconsistent.
AGain thats what Wolverine believed it was wrong. As stated his powers are to lock onto impulses of his opponents, this is stated numerous times by the narrative. The narrative never stated him as simply a telepath that reads minds, that was Wolverine believe, but he was incorrect.

It does hold up quite nicely if you understand what occured. He was locked onto wolverines impluses, which is why wolverine wa shvaing a hard time hitting him, however when he went berserker it alters his brian patterns which would disrupt mister x powers for a time and he also increases his impulses and actual speed.

Here on pannel stated facts by Hammer and Mister X.
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4162/tbolts13613.th.jpg


http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7458/thunderbolts132011.th.jpg

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1446/thunderbolts132012.th.jpg

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Thats what Wolverine believed, thats not what actually happen. There two different things, wolverine did not understand how mister x powers work, he hypothesized what his powers were and was wrong.

Do you want me to post scans of how mister X powers work as stated on pannel?

That only proves that he, and SHIELD, are wrong. At least insofar as the exact mechanism through which his powers work. Because we have on panel evidence of his powers NOT working that way, by way of Wolverine beating him.

That strategy couldn't have worked if his abilities actually functioned by way of the impulses of the brain. You can't 'speed up' how quickly your synapses fire just by going crazy.



3rd party descriptions of his abilities are less valid than on panel evidence of the mechanism by which they work. If all we had was Wolverine's explanation, I would be inclined to agree with you. But we have Wolverine's description validated by a genuine confrontation.

This seems to be backed up by Iron Fist defeating him as well, with his drunken style. His electrical impulses would have had to be the same to achieve the same physical effect (a punch is a punch, neurologically speaking), and he even goes so far as to say "Telepathy, got it".



How could it increase the speed of his impulses? Are you saying that Wolverine is tapping into the speed force? Because the implication that you're making is that he's actually increasing the speed of electricity -- patently impossible.

No, Wolverine made an evaluation of his abilities. At that point, the validity of that evaluation was up in the air, yes. Then he put into an effect a strategy that tested the validity of his evaluation -- he proved himself correct by way of succeeding.

I was going to comment on it but looks like Desaad is handling it just fine. X seems to undergo soft retcons ever so often. Now he's being described as a telepath again as of Tbolts #137.

Prometheus.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Here on pannel stated facts by Hammer and Mister X.
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4162/tbolts13613.th.jpg


http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7458/thunderbolts132011.th.jpg

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1446/thunderbolts132012.th.jpg
again here is prove of how his powers work. Stated by individuals who have studied his powers extensively.......and then by him self.......honestly there really nothing to debate this is how his powers work.

No crap from reember one issue were he clearly read nothing on the character during the run over shadows this.....

Look, I'm done here. I've made my point. We've had numerous examples of it being shown that it's just weak telepathy, that he's not actually reading the electrical impulses of the brain. If you need to ignore that for some reason, by all means continue to do so. But those of us without a horse in this race see pretty clearly how his powers have been demonstrated to work.

Originally posted by Desaad
Look, I'm done here. I've made my point. We've had numerous examples of it being shown that it's just weak telepathy, that he's not actually reading the electrical impulses of the brain. If you need to ignore that for some reason, by all means continue to do so. But those of us without a horse in this race see pretty clearly how his powers have been demonstrated to work.
FUnyn how you say there have been nermous examples and yet provide nothing.

Notcie how I am the only one who provided scans?


Funnier even is the fact there are many more examples of his powers working reading electrical impulses and many more examples of him stating thats how his powers work

STATEING IT HIM SELF.


Find it funny that you pretend I am being rediculous because I am going by his stated powers on pannel by him self and the author and going by his majority of his showings. Your going by the miniority of his showings and statement by wolverine prior to his real development of his character and I still found rational expl;anation for it. Oh and your other example is an issue by reember which he was not the writer of thudnerbolts and contradicted the entire run and himself......

i think what battlehammer is saying no matter what logan said it isnt official since he really has no true understanding of how X powers work and simply made an educated guess.

his power could be many things or non of them. no one can really say for sure how X powers work without actually studying him. it could all be hyperbole even if it comes from Mister X mouth... so their is nothing to suggest what logan said to have more weight to what Shield agents said. if anything their is more reliability what Shield intel says and what X says then what logan said.

i am willing to dismiss logan's assumption for a more detailed and far more educated analyzes of X's ability in more modern stories due to more character growth.

hinging on just one comment is a weak argument when it is overshadowed by more relevant and more detailed modern explanation since the character's 1st appearances.

Also the major thing that proves Wolverine wrong and everyone that pretending X is simply low level mind reader dispite X and shields own statements is the fact X's powers still worked on BLACK WIDOW. The same BLACK WIDOW, who TP BLOCKER was so good Norman Osborn who consistently has his people mind read especially prior to highering them fooled, but X's powers still work, becuase it not mind reading like normal telepaths.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i think what battlehammer is saying no matter what logan said it isnt official since he really has no true understanding of how X powers work and simply made an educated guess.

I understand what Battlehammer is saying, and he's wrong.

If all we had was Wolverine's supposition, I would agree with you 100%. His own description of his abilities would trump that.

But Wolverine's supposition is backed up by a test. A test that, was X's own explanation true, Mr. X would have passed. But he didn't. Wolverine shut down his conscious thought by going into 'insane' mode, and that proved to be enough to totally destroy X, despite him having apparently mastered dozens of earth martial arts. Had Mr. X been reading Wolverine's neural signals, as battlehammer claims, then there wouldn't have been any difference. Mr. X would have been able to read what Wolverine's body was going to do, and respond accordingly. The vast difference in his performance from one battle to the next makes Wolverine's analysis undeniably more accurate than that of Mr. X or SHIELD (really, that of Jeff Parker since both descriptions were written by the same writer).



If all we had was statements, absolutely. But we have numerous encounters by which we can evaluate this - his fight against Wolverine, his fight against Iron Fist, and his fight against Luke Cage.

There hasn't been a SINGLE battle that he's had that has demonstrated an ability to do anything but read the conscious mind of his opponents.

hmm...

there were many factors involving berserker wolverine mind least of which is TP resistance and blockage from high level tp users...

physiological changes also occur.

IF and Cage fight was complete garbage

Originally posted by Battlehammer


Since when are scans a requirement? I'm the only one bringing up relevant reference points of Mr. X in action. Your entire argument hinges upon statements made by one writer. Mine hinges upon statements mind by multiple writers, backed up by actual combat showings.




Show me an example of specific mention being made that an opponent's conscious thoughts are shielded/unreadable (as was the case with Wolverine and Iron Fist and Luke Cage) and Mr. X 'reading' an opponent anyway.

Because I have yet to see even one presented here.

awesome just ignore what I said and keep stating the same crpa over again awesome how great notice how you completely ignored what I brought up.

Again reconnt (do you understand what that is)

again reember contradicted the entire arc in his one issue, he contradicted himself even. Again in the very first Tunderbolts apearances I mister X he able disproves reembers statements made by IF and Luke Cage in issue 137.

Again if he read there minds how was he able to know Black Widows moves? The same Black widow who telepathic blockers would good enough to hide her true idientity from Normal Osborns telepaths?

Again Mister X has stated the power and shown it, oh and your arguements even furth proven incorrect by X inability to know Ghosts was there was intangiable. Telepaths who reads minds would know, but becuases X relies on locking onto impulses he was unable to register him due to Ghost intangiability, becuase it was as if then impulses vanished.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Also the major thing that proves Wolverine wrong and everyone that pretending X is simply low level mind reader dispite X and shields own statements is the fact X's powers still worked on BLACK WIDOW. The same BLACK WIDOW, who TP BLOCKER was so good Norman Osborn who consistently has his people mind read especially prior to highering them fooled, but X's powers still work, becuase it not mind reading like normal telepaths.

Was specific mention made of her TP blocker when she went up against Mr. X? Did it specifically shield against someone who is reading one's surface thoughts?

Again, I'm looking for an example of a battle in which someone specifically clouds/blocks/shuts down their conscious thoughts in some way, and Mr. X still coming out on top. I've given you three examples of him losing in such situations, with specific mention being made of his power being low level telepathy. You've given me one writer saying that his power was something else, and zero examples of him demonstrating it.

Please don't send me PMs about what we're discussing in this thread.

Originally posted by Desaad
Since when are scans a requirement? I'm the only one bringing up relevant reference points of Mr. X in action. Your entire argument hinges upon statements made by one writer. Mine hinges upon statements mind by multiple writers, backed up by actual combat showings.


No your examples hangs on an power that was reconnt. And on an auther who contradicted him self in the very issue and the entire arc as I have alreayd explained.


Originally posted by Desaad
Show me an example of specific mention being made that an opponent's conscious thoughts are shielded/unreadable (as was the case with Wolverine and Iron Fist and Luke Cage) and Mr. X 'reading' an opponent anyway.

Because I have yet to see even one presented here.
Black Widow which I stated like five times.


Luke and IF example was garbage in X first apearances on Thudnerbolts he was fighting two opponents effortlessly, but magically reember issue (who clearly neevr even read the arc he was writing an issue for) had X unable to lock onto two individuals impulses dispite x doing this numerosu times.

I wish we could get some consistency. In issue 136 he claimed he knew that Headsman was about to hit Scourge and not Snowbird. Looks like TP to me. Also, does his power grant enhanced reflexes too?

Originally posted by dmills
I wish we could get some consistency. In issue 136 he claimed he knew that Headsman was about to hit Scourge and not Snowbird. Looks like TP to me. Also, does his power grant enhanced reflexes too?
That does not mean telepathy. Of course he new, his powers allows him to lock on everyone impulses within a certain radius. Which would easily explain him knowing that headsman was going to attack scourge, becuases he beign sent impulses telling him this. Just becuases they dont attack him does mena he dont recieveing information on what everyone elses is doing. Actaully the issue proves further he not a mind reader, but impulses. When paladin shoots at him he dodges it and say some line like you never hit me, but then paladin goes I wasent aiming for you and we see that he shot black widows cuffs off. Now if he read minds he would know this, but because he reads and locks onto impulses he simply new what palladin was doing, but not the reasoning, which is why that events is a perfect example of the difference between impulses reading and mind


also it has been very consistent, the only inconsistenences was when reember took over for that issue or two.......and it was awful writting by a sos so writer (thats beeing nice to be honest). Asside from that his powers have been consistently demenstrated through out the arc.