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Let's talk about the next book in the "Fate of Jedi" series.

Haven't read it yet, so no opinion . . . for now.

Yeah, not to much to say until Tuesday. That is when it comes out, right?

Well, the first chapter is already out, isn't it?

Never bought Dathomir as a plausible thing...

My favorite Jedi Knights book is DEFINITELY this one. Actually two. Look at the cover pages on google images. They are SO tight. The first one is Hero Rising: Blue Waffle. The second one is just called The piercing of Prince Albert

Those are really cool. Are both of them out yet. Personally I think Blue Waffle looks better. The cover page is AMAZING. Sorry for the caps. You guys should check out the covers.

That is so awesome! Check it out, guys!

So... has anybody got it?

Originally posted by Survivor19
So... has anybody got it?

Yes I just picked it up. Will probably start and finish it today.

Cool. By any means, post the most juicy spoilers here.

Based on the reviews at TFN, it sounds like the book isn't very good.

Which doesn't surprise me because really, SW authors can't write. I can write better than they can, and they have the benefit of professional editors and time to write out five drafts and make it polished and perfect.

That's an interesting generalization Veneficus. Perhaps you should amend it to "Post OT authors can't write."

Autokrat
Which doesn't surprise me because really, SW authors can't write.Matthew Stover could write you into his bedroom. The man does work.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
That's an interesting generalization Veneficus. Perhaps you should amend it to "Post OT authors can't write."

Their is a select handful of SW authors I like. Stover, Luceno and yea, that's pretty much it. Zhan is passable if ridiculous. Denning sucks, Golden sucks, Ailsteen sucks. Drew is alright I suppose, but hardly on the level of Stover or Luceno. I suppose now that Kemp now belongs on the list of SW writers I like. Although he was writing for FR long before SW.

If I seem critical its because I'm in a position to be critical. I'm a writer myself and as a writer I notice all the small screw ups or poor prose. The writers of LOTF and FOTJ all read like fanfiction. Good fanfiction, but not anything I'd pay for and certainly not in hardcover.

Originally posted by Eminence
Matthew Stover could write you into his bedroom. The man does work.

I did like Stover so much that I bought his non SW books, which were amazing.

I agree with you, the LOTF and FOTJ writers make me want to commit murder. However, there have been plenty of good SW literature, even if it's not the majority.

Autokrat
Their is a select handful of SW authors I like. Stover, Luceno and yea, that's pretty much it. Zhan is passable if ridiculous. Denning sucks, Golden sucks, Ailsteen sucks. Drew is alright I suppose, but hardly on the level of Stover or Luceno. I suppose now that Kemp now belongs on the list of SW writers I like. Although he was writing for FR long before SW.

If I seem critical its because I'm in a position to be critical. I'm a writer myself and as a writer I notice all the small screw ups or poor prose. The writers of LOTF and FOTJ all read like fanfiction. Good fanfiction, but not anything I'd pay for and certainly not in hardcover.If it's writing style you're criticizing, I'm probably not in a position to judge; I wouldn't categorize myself as a writer, and I pretty much exclusively read Stover and Luceno anyway, with one book by Barnes Cestus Deception] and a few others here and there.

Now if it's the quality of the fiction (in terms of cohesiveness, creativity, and badassery) that you have a problem with, ditto.

Originally posted by Eminence
If it's writing style you're criticizing, I'm probably not in a position to judge; I wouldn't categorize myself as a writer, and I pretty much exclusively read Stover and Luceno anyway, with one book by Barnes Cestus Deception] and a few others here and there.

Now if it's the quality of the fiction (in terms of cohesiveness, creativity, and badassery) that you have a problem with, ditto.

Technical style mostly. The type of stuff most people probably don't care about. I guess for me it just drives me crazy because I have to stop and wonder what their editor was doing.

http://www.cracked.com/article/167_5-reasons-star-wars-sequels-would-be-worse-than-prequels_p2

I never realized how much Krayt looked like Shao Kahn. Thanks Cracked!

I've always wondered why Drew Karpyshyn's storytelling merits are always so highly praised in the video gaming world (Baldur's Gate 2, Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Knights of the Old Republic) and yet in the much smaller world of Star Wars literature always seen as just slightly "ok" (Path of Destruction, Rule of Two, Dynasty of Evil).

Its the difference of medium. In a video game, Drew is simply guiding the plot, but he's also working with a team of other writers. Its a mistake to believe that he does all of the work. Plus, he doesn't have to write descriptions or worry about grammar etc, because all the visuals are being taken care of by the textures and 3D modeling team.

When he writes his books, it all depends on him and his editors. He has a lot more direct application with a book then with a video game.

Sure there's a real difference in the medium as far as the writing is concerned but the storytelling? If anything the novels are less demanding as he can exhaust all of his time and effort into a single plot rather than having to branch it through a variety of choice driven alternating paths. Also are you sure that he has a team of writers working with him on the mentioned games? I was under the impression that he was the only writer they hired for those specific games (and almost certain as far as KotOR's concerned), the upcoming MMO excluded.

Originally posted by Regnir Bamos
Sure there's a real difference in the medium as far as the writing is concerned but the storytelling? If anything the novels are less demanding as he can exhaust all of his time and effort into a single plot rather than having to branch it through a variety of choice driven alternating paths. Also are you sure that he has a team of writers working with him on the mentioned games? I was under the impression that he was the only writer they hired for those specific games (and almost certain as far as KotOR's concerned), the upcoming MMO excluded.

I would strongly disagree. A novel is incredibly demanding. You have to: develop the setting, develop the dialog of each character, look out for contradictions between a myriad of subplots, have a solid grasp of the technical aspect of good prose, create credible motivations and backstories for a myriad of cast members, and somehow make all of this make sense into one complete overarching plotline.

As part of a video game, you are part of a team. As a writer, everything depends on you. Your editor can help refine the prose and make suggestions, but by far the burden is on the writer.

Well all of the storytelling based stuff that you mentioned would apply to any form of storytelling, not exclusively to novelisations or other kinds of descriptive storytelling. And as a writer working on a video game, sure you're working as part of a team but not necessarily a team of writers. Hideo Kojima is the only writer that works on the Metal Gear Solid games as an example. And I'm pretty sure the same is the case with Drew and the mentioned games.

The thing is, for novels, its totally on the writer to do everything. Games have numerous other things helping to create a setting and tone. Other people create the environment, the voice-actors add tones and individuality to characters. But for writers, you have to describe the world in a way thats both interesting and engaging, you have to create the characters using just the written word, have to set tone, set the feel of a character, you can't ellaborate with clothes, tones or even subtle things like their stance except through that. Etc

Thats why I'm looking to go more in a visual direction, like comics, scripts or manga. Who knows, maybe even games. *shrug*

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
http://www.cracked.com/article/167_5-reasons-star-wars-sequels-would-be-worse-than-prequels_p2

I never realized how much Krayt looked like Shao Kahn. Thanks Cracked!

Double Post

That red-head is hot.

Yea this book pretty much sucked. I'm actually looking forward to the next one.

The Sith and the Skywalkers become allies and go to the Maw to fight Abeloth".

I'm about to read it, and for once I actually don't want spoilers, so I'll let you know what I think when i get done.

Alright but you'll slowly realize you just wasted 4-5 hours.

...
so, nobody dies?

Decent book.

Two interesting tidbits regarding Luke:

* Another lackluster duel with a Sith Master at the end, though I'm pretty sure it was stated that Luke, recovered from his physical weakness in Abyss, was the superior duelist. Still, he did not shame the Sith in combat and his telekinesis was resisted by the Sith when he fled.

* Luke's own musings that the Nightsisters "probably" didn't have greater Force powers than himself.

Originally posted by Gideon
Decent book.

Two interesting tidbits regarding Luke:

* Another lackluster duel with a Sith Master at the end, though I'm pretty sure it was stated that Luke, recovered from his physical weakness in Abyss, was the superior duelist. Still, he did not shame the Sith in combat and his telekinesis was resisted by the Sith when he fled.

* Luke's own musings that the Nightsisters "probably" didn't have greater Force powers than himself.

Are you referring to:


It looks like they're attributing pretty much all of Luke's weak showings the past book and a half to his health, nothing more.


Are you sure those were Luke's musings and not the author's? I don't know which page this was on so I'm not going to flip back tonight.

It was frustrating that Luke didn't kill the Sith Lord. The first paragraph makes it sound like he is absolutely toying with him.

He parried each of Gaalan's blows, and his ripostes, his blade skittering off Gaalan's and thrusting now at the Sith Lord's face, now at shoulder or knee or torso-came increasingly close to touching flesh.

Luke smiled at the man

I turned the page expecting to see Luke finish the man off, and instead Ben and random guy with blasters starts killing sith and then the Sith Lord escapes.

I guess they feel they need an antagonist later.

Another thing though: The idea that the Tribe is a bunch of nobodies in combat was thoroughly squashed.

Gaalen is put at the level of Kyp and Katarn.
Rhea was put at the level of a Jedi Master.
Vestera was put at the level of a Jedi Knight, and she wasn't even an official apprentice.

Oh yeah TJ, Luke did not struggle with a single rancor, on the contrary he wtf pwned multiple ones.


And (spoiler alert) the beginning of Allies that is given to us heavily implies a BenxVestara romance.

Operative word: might.


This is very debatable as Luke was ridiculously weak during his fight in the maw.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington


This is very debatable as Luke was ridiculously weak during his fight in the maw.

I can give you a page number later. Luke actually says that about Rhea and Vestera, I didn't make it up.

Might is indeed a key operative, but it puts him in the discussion, and that is indeed what matters. Considering it bothers to say that the lower Jedi Master could not have handled him, it makes it seem likely that he would be a match (which doesn't mean he would win) for one of them.

What's the page number, I'll look it up in my copy.

*Rhea - KIA: If Luke was not physically weakened, IMO it would not have been much of a fight, but stupid author.
Gaalen - Does not come close to Kyp even if Kyp is drunk (Force).
*Vestara - Tahiri maybe? On a personal thought, she and Ben unite in Allies which is due to be released next month. Possibly romantically involved with Ben and may join the Jedi Order.

I'll get it too ya something like 6 hours from now? Still on campus, and I'm in the middle of tech week right now. : )

pg 100, 4th paragraph.

Crap, I can't find my copy. I'll take your word for it.

It is fascinating to note that, if Skywalker's assessment is accurate, Viun Gaalan was perhaps on par with Kyp Durron and Kyle Katarn in terms of swordsmanship, and more than a match for Skywalker himself shortly after his journey through the Maw.

Which suggests that either Kyle or Kyp would have been able to outfight Lady Rhea and Vestara simultaneously.

its the first info we've gotten on how good kyle and kyp are in a long time. I appreciate it. Makes sense. How long have they been Jedi now? Kyle has to be approaching 30 or 40 years now, or more, right?

how.. riveting,

Originally posted by Gideon
It is fascinating to note that, if Skywalker's assessment is accurate, Viun Gaalan was perhaps on par with Kyp Durron and Kyle Katarn in terms of swordsmanship, and more than a match for Skywalker himself shortly after his journey through the Maw.

Which suggests that either Kyle or Kyp would have been able to outfight Lady Rhea and Vestara simultaneously. sure, if they didn't spend days floating around with he mind drinkers.

How good, exactly, IS Kyle Katarn.

TJ
How good, exactly, IS Kyle Katarn.

Beastly, you'd think.

the plot is so obvious.. ben will be romantically involved with vestara because there is no one else who is in his age group. If the skywalker lineage is to be passed on... yeah i don't need to say anymore.

Kyle Katarn is epic!!!

Hes in JK2 lol

Originally posted by Gideon
It is fascinating to note that, if Skywalker's assessment is accurate, Viun Gaalan was perhaps on par with Kyp Durron and Kyle Katarn in terms of swordsmanship, and more than a match for Skywalker himself shortly after his journey through the Maw.

Which suggests that either Kyle or Kyp would have been able to outfight Lady Rhea and Vestara simultaneously.

I find it strange that there are members within this Sith Tribe that can match upper tier Jedi such as Kyp (who's often compared to Mace Windu in power) and Kyle.

why?

Originally posted by truejedi
why?

They are isolated in a (by SW standards) technologically backwards world with only the knowledge that they had 5000+ years ago when they crash landed. Strangely enough, in 5000 years they can't relearn/rebuild a spaceship, but that's beside the point.

That sith lord wasn't even the leader of the Tribe, and yet he was apparently on par with Kype, who many in this forum put on par with Mace Windu. Mace Windu is widely considered to be one of the greatest duelists to ever exist out of both Jedi and Sith and their 20,000+ years of history. He had access to the largest Force related archive in the known galaxy and likely learned much from Yoda, one of the wisest and most powerful Jedi to ever live. He was admitted to the Jedi High Council and was for a time the Grandmaster. He invented his own form which is considered to be one of the deadliest. Oh, and he defeated Darth Sidious.

And then some random Sith who isn't even the leader of the Tribe comes and is on par with him???

I was under the impression that Galan was part of the leadership? And I think Luke's thought was that he "might" be able to compete with Kyp.

Originally posted by kotorfan
the plot is so obvious.. ben will be romantically involved with vestara because there is no one else who is in his age group. If the skywalker lineage is to be passed on... yeah i don't need to say anymore.


It could always be that he just doesn't have kids.


...

Really!

The skywalker lineage is passed on through Jaina too. So it could be her and jagged fel's kids. But yeah, its gonna be vestera and ben i think.

I didn't read this book, but I would like to know who wins the duel between luke and lord gaalan

Originally posted by ben222
I didn't read this book, but I would like to know who wins the duel between luke and lord gaalan

SPOILER ALERT





They fight for a while, but Luke is clearly winning and even smiles at Gaalan. Gaalan runs away when he gets the chance and leaves via a shuttle.

Its a Yoda/Dooku kinda moment. Interestingly enough. Luke reaches out in the force to hold the freaking shuttle on the ground, something i didn't even think of as possible, but Gaalen is able to block some of the power.

Originally posted by truejedi
The skywalker lineage is passed on through Jaina too. So it could be her and jagged fel's kids. But yeah, its gonna be vestera and ben i think.

Jaina, despite being Skywalker by blood, is a Solo. Also, it's no secret to those that have read the Legacy comics that her children become the Fel dynasty of Emperors for the renewed Empire that is reformed out of the Remnant. Jagged Fel is not Force-sensitive, yet his offspring are powerful indeed. Skywalker blood, there.

So it'll be Ben that has kids. I will be annoyed if it is with Vestara; it is a rehash of Luke's romance with Mara Jade, the Dark Jedi who wanted to straight-up murder him.

Whatever happened to that ginger gal in LOFT? I guess she was just Jacens spy, but I still found her a little interesting and at least she wouldn't be a cliche. I think it would actually be kinda cool if Ben just had a normal girlfriend, it would humanise him a likkle.

And REXX you should know by know that SW writers have creativity for shit. They steal everything.

Oh, I know full well. I can understand borrowing concepts and ideas and even general plot from other places, but many Star Wars writers steal directly from the source material, and that's just lazy.