Battle Of The Nigh Omnipotents

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Colossus-Big C
team 1
LT
Lucifer Morning
Micheal demeuurge
Mxy
pre retcon moleculeman
thanos with hotu
madrakk

team 2

fully backed spectre
pre retcon beyonder
adam warloc with infinity gems
hom wanda
sis neg( gensis)
alien entity
bca galactus with un and cn
fulcrum

Black bolt z
Team 1

Also what exactly makes HOM wanda so strong?

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Team 1

Also what exactly makes HOM wanda so strong? shes a living nexus for all magic in the multiverse or something like that

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
shes a living nexus for all magic in the multiverse or something like that Feat examples?

galactusischere
Beyonder? He solos everybody other than Thanos and MM...

stalemate.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by galactusischere
Beyonder? He solos everybody other than Thanos and MM...

stalemate. not really sisneg became god too

galactusischere
Didn't see genesis there. Team 2 wins then.

Black bolt z
What exactly does pre-retcon/post-retcon mean?

753
Originally posted by Black bolt z
What exactly does pre-retcon/post-retcon mean?

retcon is retroactive continuity: when they change something and it aplies to the past of the story.

Originally, beyonder and molecule man were more powerfull than the living tribunal, so pretty much gods. Then, because that was so idiotic, it was explained that they weren't really a big deal and that the abstract beings were just being nice to them so they could get acostumed to their power levels and not wreak havok all over the place.

Mr Master
Post-retcon Beyonder erased 616 Death from existence,
he also was a viable threat to Eternity,
and years late into his retcon, he was causing havok across creation
with his multiversal tamperings.

When post-Owen and Beyonder fought,
reality across the realities of the Omniverse were warped,
and the LT called Owen one of the most powerful beings in all creation.


That aside, team two ftw.

753
post retcon beyonder erased death?

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Mr Master
Post-retcon Beyonder erased 616 Death from existence,
he also was a viable threat to Eternity,
and years late into his retcon, he was causing havok across creation
with his multiversal tamperings.

When post-Owen and Beyonder fought,
reality across the realities of the Omniverse were warped,
and the LT called Owen one of the most powerful beings in all creation.


That aside, team two ftw. thanos has hotu

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
thanos has hotu
Well assuming the HOTU was truly TOAA's power as is claimed Team 1 takes it. He's not a nigh-omnipotent, he's got the power of a Supreme Being.

galactusischere
Same goes for Beyonder. He was completely omnipotent based on feats.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by galactusischere
Same goes for Beyonder. He was completely omnipotent based on feats.
I don't believe so, not to the level of the HOTU at least.

nicamarvin
Originally posted by Mr Master
the LT called Owen one of the most powerful beings in all creation.
Yet Sentry Owned Him... confused

Omega Vision
Originally posted by nicamarvin
Yet Sentry Owned Him... confused
Sentry owned a watered down version of the retconned MM.

galactusischere
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't believe so, not to the level of the HOTU at least.

Actually Beyonder's feats were superior to THOTI's.
LT was scared shitless of him, while he did go up against Thanos with THOTI.

Harbinger
Doesn't really count for much given that Thanos + HOTI effortlessly absorbed him.

753
Originally posted by galactusischere
Actually Beyonder's feats were superior to THOTI's.
LT was scared shitless of him, while he did go up against Thanos with THOTI.

THOTU is above beyonder's feats by far. by the time it came to it, the LT fearing beyonder had already been retconned anyway and he raged against thanos because he 'usurped' TOAA's place, there ws no TOAA back in beyonder's days

Colossus-Big C
so who is the weakest person here?

galactusischere
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
so who is the weakest person here?

The Fulcrum.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by galactusischere
Same goes for Beyonder. He was completely omnipotent based on feats. He may have been omnipotent but there are many levels of omnipotence.Anywhere form galactus to TOAA could be considered to have "infinite" power.

galactusischere
Completely omnipotnet>virtually omnipotent>nigh omnipotent

Black bolt z
Originally posted by galactusischere
Completely omnipotnet>virtually omnipotent>nigh omnipotent Understood.Thanks

Mr Master
Originally posted by 753

post retcon beyonder erased death?
Yes.

The same Death he erased during SSII.

This part of beyonder's history was not retconned, along with many other feats,
like creating an entire infinite Universe.
Originally posted by Harbinger

Doesn't really count for much given that Thanos + HOTI effortlessly absorbed him.
And Beyonder defeated a being (Owen) more powerful than the LT,
while maiking said LT "tremble" in fear.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Feat examples?

Tearing Omniverse with a thought.

Team 1 wins. Out of all those nigh omnipotent beings, THOTI was a stand out.

Originally posted by galactusischere
LT was scared shitless of him, while he did go up against Thanos with THOTI.

Because of being scared? And what did help LT going against THOTI?

I still think that THOTI does to PreR Beyonder what he did to LT. It would make no difference to THOTI.

Mr Master
Originally posted by 753

THOTU is above beyonder's feats by far.
Hell no!

Even though I've stamped Beyonder vs THOTI as a stalemate,
Beyonder has the greatest feat in Marvel's history.
(creating a reality that in comparison with the infinite Marvelverse,
was like comparing an ocean to a drop of water)
Originally posted by 753

by the time it came to it, the LT fearing beyonder had already been retconned anyway
That's false.

The Beyonder was still in his classic era when the LT feared him.
Originally posted by 753

and he raged against thanos because
he 'usurped' TOAA's place
Right, and the LT didn't dare go up against the Beyonder
while instead he thought he had a chance against THOTI.
Originally posted by 753

there ws no TOAA back in beyonder's days
TOAA has always existed.

TOAA = the representational on panel avatars of the artists/writers of Marvel.

TOAA has appeared on panel even before Beyonder came on the scene,
the only difference is that back then we didn't know them as TOAA,
but the concept was always there.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Xplosive

Tearing Omniverse with a thought.
She's on team 2
Originally posted by Xplosive

Team 1 wins. Out of all those nigh omnipotent beings, THOTI was a stand out.
And to counter that, team 2 has classic Beyonder.
Originally posted by Xplosive

Because of being scared? And what did help LT going against THOTI?
Same thing that helped Owen >>> LT against Beyonder ... nothing. smile
Originally posted by Xplosive

I still think that THOTI does to PreR Beyonder what he did to LT.
At best for THOTI, it's a stalemate.

Slaanesh
maybe a stalemate between PR Beyonder and THOTI..but if i have to chose..i give it to PR Beyonder..so team 2

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mr Master
She's on team 2

I know. He just wanted some feat. But as me, you also know that against THOTI she won't matter.

And about LT going against THOTI and not PreR Beyonder. That doesn't mean anything, since Thor, Hulk and others went also against THOTI.

Akhenaten mastered THOTI, Thanos got it and still made a joke out of Akhenatan like he did anyone else. Akhenatan would make a joke out of LT just as THOTI did. To THOTI it doesn't matter.

Akhenatan>PreR MM

Originally posted by Mr Master
At best for THOTI, it's a stalemate.

In your opinion.

Others would get destroyed by the power of THOTI and PreR Beyonder, then THOTI taking out PreR Beyonder.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Xplosive

And about LT going against THOTI and not PreR Beyonder. That doesn't mean anything, since Thor, Hulk and others went also against THOTI.
It means what it means.

Also ... Thor, Hulk and others went against THOTI because the LT called them to war.
Originally posted by Xplosive

Akhenaten mastered THOTI, Thanos got it and still made a joke out of Akhenatan like he did anyone else. Akhenatan would make a joke out of LT just as THOTI did. To THOTI it doesn't matter.
Imo, the LT would've lost against AK, but not like a joke.
Originally posted by Xplosive

Akhenatan>PreR MM
I disagree.
Originally posted by Xplosive

In your opinion.
In your opinion as well.
Originally posted by Xplosive

Others would get destroyed by the power of THOTI and PreR Beyonder
I agree.
Originally posted by Xplosive

then THOTI taking out PreR Beyonder.
Or PreR Beyonder taking out THOTI.

See, it's just opinion vs opinion here.
(only fact here is that Beyonder performed the greatest feat in Marvel's history)

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mr Master
It means what it means.

It doesn't mean much.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Also ... Thor, Hulk and others went against THOTI because the LT called them to war.

Imo, the LT would've lost against AK, but not like a joke.

I think he would or should have no trouble at all.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Also ... Thor, Hulk and others went against THOTI because the LT called them to war.

Yes and they shown no fear or at least not close as LT against PreR Beyonder.
I never took it seriously if he was afraid or not, at least not in this case.

Originally posted by Mr Master
See, it's just opinion vs opinion here.
(only fact here is that Beyonder performed the greatest feat in Marvel's history)

Indeed.

753
Originally posted by Mr Master
Hell no!

Even though I've stamped Beyonder vs THOTI as a stalemate,
Beyonder has the greatest feat in Marvel's history.
(creating a reality that in comparison with the infinite Marvelverse,
was like comparing an ocean to a drop of water)

That's false.

The Beyonder was still in his classic era when the LT feared him.

Right, and the LT didn't dare go up against the Beyonder
while instead he thought he had a chance against THOTI.

TOAA has always existed.

TOAA = the representational on panel avatars of the artists/writers of Marvel.

TOAA has appeared on panel even before Beyonder came on the scene,
the only difference is that back then we didn't know them as TOAA,
but the concept was always there.

I meant that by the time it came to the thotu storyline the beyonder had already been retconned, so the fact is that the LT never cowered in fear of anyone.

I think LT knew he had no chance in hell, they were just acting on their natures, which is to worship TOAA and they'd rather die than go on under thanos.

When did TOAA appear on panel before beyonder? was he stated to be TOAA back then? If TOAA was there back then, wasnt he surely above beyonder too? So isnt it reasonable to see thanos with thotu above beyonder?

Well, if you take the fact that pre-retcon beyonder was a universe greater than marvel omniverse, than yes, this feat would be above absorbing and recreating said omniverse. But if you believe that TOAA was still above him back then (ididnt know he was already on panel before it) and that Thanos had all his powers, that in itself can be considered a feat, just like the beyonder being his own huge ass universe. Absorbing the omniverse is a lot more impressive than erasing death though.

I'm confused about the death thing. If you are referring to SWII, wasn't that retconned as a cosmic theatrical performance? Death simply played her part, I believe, he never truly erased her from reality. Back then he was still believed to be above everyone, but he's been stated to be beneath eternity and others since then.

Mr Master
Originally posted by 753

I meant that by the time it came to the thotu storyline the beyonder had already been retconned, so the fact is that the LT never cowered in fear of anyone.
Well yes, by then it was retconned,
but if we're going to use Pre-Retcon/Classic Beyonder in a thread,
then that's still a canon occurance.

This is why differentiate the Pre from the Post in the OP of the thread.
Originally posted by 753

I think LT knew he had no chance in hell, they were just acting on their natures, which is to worship TOAA and they'd rather die than go on under thanos.
Nice unsupported speculation.

But the fact is,
the LT came after Thanos cause he thought he had a chance,
and that's all we can go by,
since there no proof of any kind the LT knew he was doing it in vain.
Originally posted by 753

1. When did TOAA appear on panel before beyonder?

2. was he stated to be TOAA back then?

3. If TOAA was there back then, wasnt he surely above beyonder too?
So isnt it reasonable to see thanos with thotu above beyonder?
1. TOAA is the representational avatars of the writers/artists,
which have appeared a few times before Beyonder.
(I'm at work, so I don't have access to the scans,
but I'll post at-least two shows I have when I get home.

2. Not TOAA, but the ultimate power over the drawings that appear on panel, that is ... the avatars of the writer and/or artists.

3. While TOAA should've been above the Beyonder, he was not.
Because Shooter (TOAA and more) placed the Beyonder above his avatar,
since Shooter stated that Beyonder discovered hima s well as the drop of water the Marvelverse was.

753
Originally posted by Mr Master
Well yes, by then it was retconned,
but if we're going to use Pre-Retcon/Classic Beyonder in a thread,
then that's still a canon occurance.

This is why differentiate the Pre from the Post in the OP of the thread.

Nice unsupported speculation.

But the fact is,
the LT came after Thanos cause he thought he had a chance,
and that's all we can go by,
since there no proof of any kind the LT knew he was doing it in vain.

1. TOAA is the representational avatars of the writers/artists,
which have appeared a few times before Beyonder.
(I'm at work, so I don't have access to the scans,
but I'll post at-least two shows I have when I get home.

2. Not TOAA, but the ultimate power over the drawings that appear on panel, that is ... the avatars of the writer and/or artists.

3. While TOAA should've been above the Beyonder, he was not.
Because Shooter (TOAA and more) placed the Beyonder above his avatar,
since Shooter stated that Beyonder discovered hima s well as the drop of water the Marvelverse was.

Speculation it may be, but there is not enough reason to assume he thought they could win either, he should know better. LT just found it completely unacceptable to tolerate thanos, that's the only thing on panel.


Was it shown on panel that beyonder met or found the creators avatar? Did the avatar ever show up along with beyonder?

What about the death thing?

Xplosive
Originally posted by 753
Speculation it may be, but there is not enough reason to assume he thought they could win either, he should know better. LT just found it completely unacceptable to tolerate thanos, that's the only thing on panel.

I agree more with that than with fear crap.

Colossus-Big C
imo Lucifer morning star+micheal demiurge= pre retcon beyonder more or less
team 1 also has pre retcon molecule man and classic madrakk

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Xplosive
I know. He just wanted some feat. But as me, you also know that against THOTI she won't matter.

And about LT going against THOTI and not PreR Beyonder. That doesn't mean anything, since Thor, Hulk and others went also against THOTI.

Akhenaten mastered THOTI, Thanos got it and still made a joke out of Akhenatan like he did anyone else. Akhenatan would make a joke out of LT just as THOTI did. To THOTI it doesn't matter.

Akhenatan>PreR MM



In your opinion.

Others would get destroyed by the power of THOTI and PreR Beyonder, then THOTI taking out PreR Beyonder. Hom Wanda is just a notch under pre retcon beyonder. she did most of his feats in a couple of pages

Colossus-Big C
So order these guys from most powerful to least IYO

Xplosive
Wanda power was awesome and I always placed her above LT and one of the most powerful ever in comics. When it comes who is above LT, Protege and Wanda always pops in my mind.
But I think she won't matter much to PreR Beyonder or THOTI. Those two are just standouts.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
So order these guys from most powerful to least IYO

In my opinion:

THOTI
PreR Beyonder
PreR MM
Wanda
Sise Neg
Alien Entity
LT
Mxy
Michael
Lucifer
Spectre
Adam Warlock wtih IG
BCA Galactus

There isn't enough about The Fulcrum and I don't know enough about Mandrakk, but from what I know, he is maybe up there with LT.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Xplosive
In my opinion:

THOTI
PreR Beyonder
PreR MM
Wanda
Sise Neg
Alien Entity
LT
Mxy
Michael
Lucifer
Spectre
Adam Warlock wtih IG
BCA Galactus

There isn't enough about The Fulcrum and I don't know enough about Mandrakk, but from what I know, he is maybe up there with LT. Where would Pre-Retcon Odin fit into this (when marvel originaly had him as Omnipotent)

Xplosive
Originally posted by 753
Was it shown on panel that beyonder met or found the creators avatar? Did the avatar ever show up along with beyonder?

TOAA can just come now and create another PreR Beyonder and make PreR Beyonder say that current Marvel Omniverse is just a drop in the ocean and that would make PreR Beyonder so powerful only because TOAA easily empowered him to that degree.
Then if TOAA wants he can come and make another being in comics so powerful that that being could say that PreR Beyonder creation is just a drop to his and that would make current Marvel Omniverse nothing, while TOAA would be easily doing that.
That is why I always considered THOTI above PreR Beyonder or anyone. If THOTI is TOAA power within his pencil drawings, then I give THOTI above PreR Beyonder. Whenever TOAA wishes, he can just create another PreR Beyonder, while THOTI would remain his supreme power within his pencil drawings.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Where would Pre-Retcon Odin fit into this (when marvel originaly had him as Omnipotent)

In the last place, below BCA Galactus.

galactusischere
In order IMO

Pre-Ret Beyonder
Thanos with the heart
Pre-Ret MM
Sise-Neg
LT/Alien Entity
Lucifer Morningstar/Micheal demiuurge
Mxy
Hom wanda
Mandrakk
Adam warlock with the infinity gems
BCA galactus with UN and CN
Fully backed spectre
Fulcrum, due to having no feats.

753
Originally posted by Xplosive
TOAA can just come now and create another PreR Beyonder and make PreR Beyonder say that current Marvel Omniverse is just a drop in the ocean and that would make PreR Beyonder so powerful only because TOAA easily empowered him to that degree.
Then if TOAA wants he can come and make another being in comics so powerful that that being could say that PreR Beyonder creation is just a drop to his and that would make current Marvel Omniverse nothing, while TOAA would be easily doing that.
That is why I always considered THOTI above PreR Beyonder or anyone. If THOTI is TOAA power within his pencil drawings, then I give THOTI above PreR Beyonder. Whenever TOAA wishes, he can just create another PreR Beyonder, while THOTI would remain his supreme power within his pencil drawings.

.

my point exactly

KuRuPT Thanosi
Team one wins because of Thanos, Mandrakk and Mxy

Mr Master
Originally posted by 753

Speculation it may be,
but there is not enough reason to assume he thought they could win either,
he should know better.
LT just found it completely unacceptable to tolerate thanos,
that's the only thing on panel.
That's not the only thing on panel, first, LT doesn't operate that way,
the other fact is that LT went at Thanos, meaning he thought he had a chance.

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/3067331_LY_fight2.jpg

LT is very assertive in his tone, he says he's taking THOTI by force.

So, again, I think there's more proof that says LT thought he could win.
Originally posted by 753

Was it shown on panel that beyonder met or found the creators avatar?
No, it was Shooter who made it clear what Beyonder was to him:

Jim Shooter - creator/writer of Secret Wars/Beyonder
(while he was Editor in chief of Marvel)

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/1799763_jim2mj1.jpg

"We introduced the Beyonder
and established
that he was studying these beings - us - he had discovered"

This is right in line with the same thing Shooter repeated across every title in series I:

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/3067981_bekw8.jpg

(on panel writer's narration)

Originally posted by 753

Did the avatar ever show up along with beyonder?
No, but again I was mentioning "avatars" in general showing up before Beyonder appeared.

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/3067887_TOAA.jpg

That's Byrne and Gruenwald. (Gruenwald came up with the concept of the Omniverse)

Originally posted by 753

What about the death thing?
Mistress Death's 2006 Handbook bio credits Post-Retcon Beyonder with erasing her from existence:
(I can get you the scan if you wish)

http://s1d2.turboimagehost.com/t/3067966_Beyo1.jpg

(from Eternity's 2006 Handbook bio)

Mr Master
Originally posted by Xplosive

TOAA can just come now and create another PreR Beyonder and make PreR Beyonder say that current Marvel Omniverse is just a drop in the ocean and that would make PreR Beyonder so powerful only because TOAA easily empowered him to that degree.
Then if TOAA wants he can come and make another being in comics so powerful that that being could say that PreR Beyonder creation is just a drop to his and that would make current Marvel Omniverse nothing, while TOAA would be easily doing that.

That is why I always considered THOTI above PreR Beyonder or anyone. If THOTI is TOAA power within his pencil drawings, then I give THOTI above PreR Beyonder. Whenever TOAA wishes, he can just create another PreR Beyonder, while THOTI would remain his supreme power within his pencil drawings.

Thanos was not TOAA that draws on a board in heaven. (as depicted via FF#511)

Thanos was TOAA withIN the Marvel Omniverse.

He didn't use a pencil and eraser and he didn't control the behavior of the rest.

The true "OAA" is the one drawing/making Thanos acquiring their power withIN the in-comic universe.

So Thanos doesn't have "pencil drawing" powers. sad

He has to duke it out like all others.

Astner
Those who think that Spectre is equal to the Living Tribunal, based of Marvel vs DC, are indirectly saying that Mr. Mxyzptlk is equal to Impossible man.

galactusischere
Spectre can't be qual to the LT. It's impossible.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by galactusischere
Spectre can't be qual to the LT. It's impossible.
Spectre+the word+the source+the hand etc would equal the Living Tribunal

AsbestosFlaygon
@ Mr. Master

Where would you place Edifice Rex in the Marvel Cosmic hierarchy?

galactusischere
Was that crappy story even canon?

Mr Master
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
@ Mr. Master

Where would you place Edifice Rex in the Marvel Cosmic hierarchy?
Originally posted by galactusischere

Was that crappy story even canon?
Edifice R arc is canon,
it took place in 616, and is referenced in official Marvel Handbooks.

Edifice Rex has/had god-like power, but is/was a total idiot.

He's definitely one of the most powerful beings in Marvel.
(up there with the likes of the "Gods" ... ie. IG/Sise-Neg etc.

Where the heck he is now is a mystery, it's like he just faded away.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by galactusischere
Spectre can't be qual to the LT. It's impossible.
Just because we've never seen him (unambiguously) at that level doesn't mean its impossible. Also Spectre isn't (despite the insistence of most writers since his creation) the most powerful servant of the Presence or the DCU's greatest defense like the Living Tribunal is for Marvel, those roles fall to Michael and (don't hate me for saying this but its true and FC reinforced it) Superman (or at least his story) respectively. Now could the Presence make Spectre as powerful as LT? Yes, in fact I believe a 'Full Power' Spectre would be roughly equivalent to the LT but the Presence has never needed that much power in a servant except when he needed Michael to crush Lucifer's rebellion.

the ninjak
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Team 1

Also what exactly makes HOM wanda so strong?

Wasn't she born with some connection to Chthon?
I remember reading it somewhere.....probably the sole reason her inherent powers went overload in the first place. The Avenger's version of Jean Grey Phoenix.

I'm going Team 2 due to Pre Retcon Beyonder. Should overwhelm LT. Enough to defeat the rest.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.