Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Despero- Virtue and Vice

VS

Lobo- Most powerful version

Psionic or Psychopath?

I have Despero with ease but there is a Lobo fan who says otherwise.

V&V Despero's durability = crap. Lobo's healing factor = great.

Advantage, Lobo.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Lobo- Most powerful version Lobo ftw. *Clone on*

Originally posted by Enyalus
V&V Despero's durability = crap. Lobo's healing factor = great.

Advantage, Lobo.

A weaker version of Despero knocked Lobo clean out of a city during their last fight.

That doesn't take into account his superior speed, psi powers( Mind- control, telepathy) illusion casting and his own healing factor.

Winner, Despero.

The most powerful version of Lobo is the version that gets a clone from every drop of blood he spills.

Basically, if Despero cuts Lobo even once he's screwed. He could take him out with telepathy, but if he doesn't...

And Major Force has knocked Superman from Metropolis into Ohio with a punch. That doesn't really matter.

Despero's durability is not great. Never has been. Especially in V&V. That's why he loses.

Originally posted by Galan007
Lobo ftw. *Clone on*

An illusion powerful enough to fool Martian Manhunter tells the clones they have to kill each other.

ALL HAIL DESPERO! !!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
An illusion powerful enough to fool Martian Manhunter tells the clones they have to kill each other. ...Which would only serve to create more clones.

How was Despero's durability 'not good' in Virtue and Vice? I don't recall anything hurting him, including the punches of multiple top tier strong men like Captain Marvel, Superman, etc.

Originally posted by Desaad
How was Despero's durability 'not good' in Virtue and Vice? I don't recall anything hurting him, including the punches of multiple top tier strong men like Captain Marvel, Superman, etc.
He had his teeth busted and was bleeding from one hit of Hawkman's mace...There is one more example, but I can't think of it just from memory.

That means nothing. Hawkman's mace has always hurt beings more powerful than they should be.

The fact that he was taking punches from multiple top tier strong men pretty much puts the idea that he was somehow not very durable in this incarnation to rest.

lots of other versions have been very disappointing, but this one was a verifiable monster.

Originally posted by Enyalus
And Major Force has knocked Superman from Metropolis into Ohio with a punch. That doesn't really matter.

Despero's durability is not great. Never has been. Especially in V&V. That's why he loses.

The fight with Lobo was pretty definitive. Lobo jumped on him and was easily beaten back.

Despero's psychic abilities are vastly improved in V&V and would pretty much overwhelm Lobo. Thats not to mention illusion casting and superior speed.

Also, I don't know what you consider great in terms of durability. He was cut in V&V by Aquaman's hook which I believe has magical properties as well as having his teeth smashed by Hawkgirl's mace which is made of Nth metal.

He recovered in seconds from both.

If you can physically knock out: Superman, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman and Power Girl all at once you are pretty durable.

Originally posted by Galan007
...Which would only serve to create more clones.

Who all do, Despero's, bidding!

iirc, Lobo has some degree of telepathic resistance -- not sure how Despero would deal with an army of them?

Originally posted by Desaad
That means nothing. Hawkman's mace has always hurt beings more powerful than they should be.
His mace shattered when hitting a New Kryptonian ffs.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
The fight with Lobo was pretty definitive. Lobo jumped on him and was easily beaten back.
Uh huh. I'm familiar. What I'm not getting is why you think that has any bearing on this fight. With the *possible* exception of Reign in Hell, mainstream Lobo has always been a good deal weaker than his supposed contemporaries. See Superman. See Darkseid. See Despero. You said peak Lobo. That's what I go by.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Despero's psychic abilities are vastly improved in V&V and would pretty much overwhelm Lobo.
Despero had what, one psychic feat in V&V, and that was against Green Arrow/Black Canary in the White House. You've got no proof that his psychic abilities were vastly improved in V&V.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Also, I don't know what you consider great in terms of durability. He was cut in V&V by Aquaman's hook which I believe has magical properties as well as having his teeth smashed by Hawkgirl's mace which is made of Nth metal.

He recovered in seconds from both.
Recovered, yes. Healed? I don't think so...But I could be wrong.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
If you can physically knock out: Superman, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman and Power Girl all at once you are pretty durable.
That doesn't prove durability. That proves strength. And are you kidding me, Superman and Captain Marvel being KO'd from one head-bump? And err, I think at one point it is Wonder Woman who isn't even in the picture, but it in the next panel she's on the ground KO'd. The entire sequence reeked of PIS.

Originally posted by Enyalus
That doesn't prove durability. That proves strength. And are you kidding me, Superman and Captain Marvel being KO'd from one head-bump? And err, I think at one point it is Wonder Woman who isn't even in the picture, but it in the next panel she's on the ground KO'd. The entire sequence reeked of PIS.
actually it does prove durability to a certain extent. being able to surving koing someone like superman without having your fist turned to mush, means you are pretty f**king durable

Originally posted by Lord_Talron
actually it does prove durability to a certain extent. being able to surving koing someone like superman without having your fist turned to mush, means you are pretty f**king durable
facepalm Because it takes uber durability to pick up Superman and Captain Marvel and smash their heads together. Right. Of course it does.

Originally posted by Enyalus
His mace shattered when hitting a New Kryptonian ffs.

Superboy, pre death, drew blood from Superboy Prime.

Does that mean that Superboy Prime's durability was really that low, or is it more likely an example of artistic interpretation?



He turned Martian Manhunter to goo from afar. That's pretty impressive.






That absolutely proved durability. How can you take a punch from a character and NOT have it NOT be an indication of durability?

I don't care if it's "PIS", the scene was what the scene was, and the implications of that scene are obvious. He was taking on Superman, Captain Marvel, Power Girl and Wonder Woman all at once, obviously taking hits in the process and coming out fine.

Originally posted by Enyalus


That doesn't prove durability. That proves strength. And are you kidding me, Superman and Captain Marvel being KO'd from one head-bump? And err, I think at one point it is Wonder Woman who isn't even in the picture, but it in the next panel she's on the ground KO'd. The entire sequence reeked of PIS.

It does prove durability.

They were all trading punches and Superman and Captain Marvel were hitting him simultaneously. Superman, has put, Lobo, down with punches and, Captain Marvel, knocked, Lobo, around easily in their fight in L.E.G.I.O.N.

The knew the threat Despero posed and its reasonable to presume that they were going all out with their blows.

Originally posted by Desaad
Superboy, pre death, drew blood from Superboy Prime.

Does that mean that Superboy Prime's durability was really that low, or is it more likely an example of artistic interpretation?
I don't see anything wrong with that. Prime is not too far beyond Superman or Superboy's levels, and you can't exactly claim PIS because he gives him a good run for his money after his resurrection, as well.

Originally posted by Desaad
He turned Martian Manhunter to goo from afar. That's pretty impressive.
Forgot about this. Yes, it was.

Originally posted by Desaad
That absolutely proved durability. How can you take a punch from a character and NOT have it NOT be an indication of durability?

I don't care if it's "PIS", the scene was what the scene was, and the implications of that scene are obvious. He was taking on Superman, Captain Marvel, Power Girl and Wonder Woman all at once, obviously taking hits in the process and coming out fine.
Looks like he took seven hits total from various people. One of them was from Power Girl, who hurt him. Another was from Hawkman's mace, who drew blood and busted out his teeth.

Pg. 82 first panel: Superman, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, and Power Girl all hit Despero simultaneously.

Not toe be left out, Dr. Midnite, throws a punch too.

Originally posted by Enyalus

I don't see anything wrong with that. Prime is not too far beyond Superman or Superboy's levels, and you can't exactly claim PIS because he gives him a good run for his money after his resurrection, as well.

So the character who took multiple uncontested blows from Black Adam (charged with lightning no less), who was moving planets and shattering dimensional barriers, taking the self destruction of a Guardian...that character getting blood drawn from Superboy, especially a Superboy who was exhausted, who could barely fly just a few minutes earlier...that's totally consistent? That makes sense, in your eyes? That isn't, most likely, blood being drawn?

How about when a kick from Batman draws blood from Darkseid. You think the intent of that scene, by the writer, was to show that Batman was about on Darkseid's strength level?




And one hit was from 3 top tiers combined, and that's going by JUST what we see on panel, ignoring the fact that the majority of the fight seemed to take place off panel.

Lobo at his peak, wins by a relentless stomp.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Pg. 82 first panel: Superman, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, and Power Girl all hit Despero simultaneously.

Not toe be left out, Dr. Midnite, throws a punch too.
Pretty sure that's Hourman and not Dr. Mid-Nite. lol

Originally posted by Desaad
So the character who took multiple uncontested blows from Black Adam (charged with lightning no less), who was moving planets and shattering dimensional barriers, taking the self destruction of a Guardian...that character getting blood drawn from Superboy, especially a Superboy who was exhausted, who could barely fly just a few minutes earlier...that's totally consistent? That makes sense, in your eyes? That isn't, most likely, blood being drawn?
Black Adam's magical in nature, as Prime was pretty resilient against magic. So I have no problem with that. The rest doesn't really matter, as we don't see how badly Prime's hurt by the Guardian's self-destruction, and again, moving planets and punching through barriers are mainly strength feats.

Originally posted by Desaad
How about when a kick from Batman draws blood from Darkseid. You think the intent of that scene, by the writer, was to show that Batman was about on Darkseid's strength level?
Darkseid was severely weakened. His durability pretty clearly wasn't what it was normally. I'm not arguing strength level. V&V Despero proved his immense strength when he stopped the Rock of Eternity. I'm arguing durability. And Despero's has never been great. He's gotten his ass badly beaten by Superman more than once.

Originally posted by Desaad
And one hit was from 3 top tiers combined, and that's going by JUST what we see on panel, ignoring the fact that the majority of the fight seemed to take place off panel.
It doesn't look like the majority of the fight was off panel to me, and if it was, I'm not going to just assume that he took a bunch of hits from them. Because it isn't shown. So I don't know. As it is, he took 7 shots. 2 hurt him. Based on that and his other showings, Despero's durability is not on par with other high heralds (and definitely not trans tiered characters). Lobo at his peak absolutely has top tier strength. He can do damage to Despero. And while Despero can certainly damage him back, Lobo's healing factor is ridiculous and wins this for him.

Originally posted by "Id"
Lobo at his peak, wins by a relentless stomp.

I know this is Quan's line but

Based on what?

Tony Montana: I'm Tony Montana! You **** with me, you ****in' with the best!
Snatch:
Tommy: Who took the jam outta your doughnut?
Turkish: You took the ****ing jam outta my doughnut, Tommy. You did.
Fallen:
Edgar Reese: Howdy, folks. Ladies, gents, cocksuckers, pederasts, I hope you all enjoy the show. Yes, I do.

Lobo wins

Originally posted by Enyalus
Pretty sure that's Hourman and not Dr. Mid-Nite. lol

Lobo at his peak absolutely has top tier strength. He can do damage to Despero. And while Despero can certainly damage him back, Lobo's healing factor is ridiculous and wins this for him.

Pretty sure that's Hourman and not Dr. Mid-Nite. lol

Thanks for the correction.

Lobo at his peak absolutely has top tier strength. He can do damage to Despero. And while Despero can certainly damage him back, Lobo's healing factor is ridiculous and wins this for him.

Lobo even in his most powerful incarnation is susceptible to psychic attack. If Despero can decimate Martian Manhunter with a psychic attack he can certaintly do so with Lobo.

The illusion casting and possesion powers are also in Despero's favor in terms of giving Despero the nod.

V&V was stronger than most of Despero's incarnations by a huge margin.
So it's safe to assume that his TP powers were also stronger then.


V&V Despero gets the slight majority, only because of the TP advantage.

Without that, it would be Lobo who'd be the victor.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I know this is Quan's line but

Based on what?


Bassed on the fact that Lobo light, was already giving Despero a fight. Now you want to pit him against a bonofied toon force character.

The original Rulk. Only more badass, and less crappy.

Originally posted by "Id"
Bassed on the fact that Lobo light, was already giving Despero a fight. Now you want to pit him against a bonofied toon force character.

The original Rulk. Only more badass, and less crappy.

That Despero was significantly weaker than the V&V version.

Physical attributes are negligible for both; although I would give Lobo the edge in durability and Despero the edge in speed.

Lobo in his most powerful incarnation is still vulnerable to psychic attack.

How does being "Toon" force level get around that?

The Main Man stomps. Clone army FTW plus the tp resistance due to his favorite song playing in his head.

Originally posted by Mrblonde
The Main Man stomps. Clone army FTW plus the tp resistance due to his favorite song playing in his head.

Despero decimitated arguably the most powerful and skilled telepath in the DCU, namely, The Martian Manhunter.

That is more than enough to plow through Lobo's mind.

Despero takes possesion of Lobo's army and turns them against him.

Despero has too much versatility for the Czarnian.