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1. Both are fully rested.

Two scenarios:

1. Doom gets 1 year prep and Apocalypse gets two and a half years prep.

2. No prep for either character.


One of the many questions here is, can Dr. Doom's magical powers overcome the unknown nature of Celestial Technology? Is Celestial Technology somehow magically powered itself? If not, then what?

Apocalypse wins in both scenarios.
Celestial tech >>> Doom's tech

Doom's tech = cosmic cube-like object.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Apocalypse wins in both scenarios.
Celestial tech >>> Doom's tech no

Originally posted by Mindset
no

Hmm.

Originally posted by Mindset
no

Yes.

Celestial tech > Doom's tech

Nope.

LOL. Well, when have the writers ever even addressed the true nature of Celestial Technology?

Never. : )

Still celestials are vastly superior to humans in term of power and intelligence, plus they are as old as time itself.

Dr. Doom traveled back in time and created the Celestial race and gave them their tech.

Celestial tech is based on Doom's tech. True story.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Dr. Doom traveled back in time and created the Celestial race and gave them their tech.

Celestial tech is based on Doom's tech. True story.

True, without a doubt.

Apocaylpse loses both scenarios, but claims his loss was all part of his masterplan, thereby saving face somewhat.

oh please, doom wins either of them easily. a man like doom bested by mere celestial tech?

Doom had sex with Eternity and that's how the Celestials were created.

Originally posted by Mindset
Doom had sex with Eternity and that's how the Celestials were created.
Doom's not gay. He banged Infinity, who smeared Doom's semen across Eternity.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Doom's not gay. He banged Infinity, who smeared Doom's semen across Eternity. He made Eternity turn into a woman first.

Oh.

Doom only has sex with his Storm-bots and Sue-bots.. and perhaps with a clone of himself.

Sadly robot versions of Sue and Storm would have more personality than the real deals.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Dr. Doom traveled back in time and created the Celestial race and gave them their tech.

Celestial tech is based on Doom's tech. True story.

prove it i am saying you are a lier prove your statement or shut up

Originally posted by galactusischere
plus they are as old as time itself.

Only as the universe. Not even that actually.

Apocalypse wins without prep.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Apocalypse wins in both scenarios.
Celestial tech >>> Doom's tech You could argue Pym's tech >>> Celestial tech since Loki escaped the latter and was seemingly entrapped in the former. Still doesn't make it true.

Doom wins both.

Apocalypse is a dumb thug who doesn't have the imagination to use his abilities to their fullest potential.

Doom on the other hand is the polar opposite he wins.

If this was no CIS PIS. It would be a crazy fight limited by imagination.

Doom wins in either scenario ... especially if the battle without prep takes place in a cafe or a furniture shop

Originally posted by redhotrash
Apocaylpse loses both scenarios, but claims his loss was all part of his masterplan, thereby saving face somewhat.

Apocalypse does not believe in humility. He is too arrogant for that.
It is time that the writers take Apocalypse seriously.

Originally posted by pinksushi1
Apocalypse does not believe in humility. He is too arrogant for that.
It is time that the writers take Apocalypse seriously.

YEAH!!!!!!!

Bring on the APOCALYPSE!!

Originally posted by the ninjak
YEAH!!!!!!!

Bring on the APOCALYPSE!!

It would be epic to see Apocalypse saving all of the mutants from total destruction, created by Bastion and the mutant haters, in the Second Coming storyline.

Apoc has 2.5 times more prep than Doom, and I still await to see evidence of Doom's tech being superior to that of the celestials.
BTW, there is no way Apoc is losing to Doom without prep.

Apocalypse has some "Celestial Tech" which he gained eons and which the Celestials don't seem too interested in retrieving. it's not as if it helped Apocalypse achieve a single worthwhile victory on the way to his excuses-riddled goal of speeding up Mutant evolution or whatever.

for all Apocalypse knows (which, let's be brutal, isn't much really) it could just be a Celestial toilet roll holder with a push-to-release mechanism. he does not understand it, has not mastered it and I have never seen him deploy it to any great effect (WarHulk's "Celestial Tech" was stated to be regulating Hulk's energies from the two universes).

Doom, on the otherhand, has tech which has siphoned the power of The Beyonder. he has augmented his own armour with Galactus' tech, which he understood and deployed to great effect ...

in sum, 1) Apocalypse is "all hat and no cattle" (lovely expression that! ), 2) He has yet to actually effectively deploy his pilfered tech against someone or to some powerful ends and 3) Galactus' Tech >>>> Celestial Tech

He does understand the celestial tech. He made the harbinger of Apoc, he made Sinister + his horsemen much more powerful using the celestial tech.

Doom's tech didn't do shit against Beyonder, it was Galactus' tech + Doom's wits.

Originally posted by galactusischere
He does understand the celestial tech. He made the harbinger of Apoc, he made Sinister + his horsemen much more powerful using the celestial tech.

Doom's tech didn't do shit against Beyonder, it was Galactus' tech + Doom's wits.
Doom augmented his armour with Galactus' Tech in order to siphon Beyonder's power. that beats everything Apocalypse has ever done, with whatever tech he has.

any tech could have made the horsemen "more powerful", it's not as if they faced any powerful opposition. Doom's used his own tech, as well as that which he's borrowed from superior intellects (Galactus) to greater effect.

Apoc creates something he calls "unstopable"with his prep time and this is how both sceniros will play out

Apoc:I shall destroy you

Doom:None may destroy one such as I!(doom then uses whatever he created prob something like making himself adamantium armor and stomps apoc)

Originally posted by janus77
Doom augmented his armour with Galactus' Tech in order to siphon Beyonder's power. that beats everything Apocalypse has ever done, with whatever tech he has.

any tech could have made the horsemen "more powerful", it's not as if they faced any powerful opposition. Doom's used his own tech, as well as that which he's borrowed from superior intellects (Galactus) to greater effect.

You need to re-read SW one. Neither Galactus nor Doom's tech was succesful taking down the Beyonder.

Galactus was "shot down like a bug" to the beyonder.

It's a joke to think doom would loose to someone like apoc

^ he does lose to Apocalypse.
Apoc is more powerful, has better tech, and has more prep.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Galactus was "shot down like a bug" to the beyonder.

yea, beyonder was completely omnipotent

Originally posted by galactusischere
yea, beyonder was completely omnipotent Isn't the only completely omnipotent being TOAA?The rest are about the closest you can get though?

TOAA is the editor/writer. He doesn't count.
INSIDE of the comic Beyonder was omnipotent.

Originally posted by galactusischere
TOAA is the editor/writer. He doesn't count.
INSIDE of the comic Beyonder was omnipotent. Well techinaclly isn't TOAA a being but is so damn powerful he is like the writer and can erase them at will?

IDK, you would have to ask Mr.Master that. He knows this stuff more than anybody on this site.

Originally posted by galactusischere
You need to re-read SW one. Neither Galactus nor Doom's tech was succesful taking down the Beyonder.
he used his armour-augmented-by-GalactusTech, to steal Beyonder's powers. that's the one and only feat that matters.

it's very possibly the greatest tech/prep feat in Marveldom.

well, aside from the time someone called the cops on Thanos, that was godly prep.

No galactusischere is right. Doom failed misreably when he tried to steal Beyonder's powers that way. He was shreded to pieces, it was through Doom's sheer will power that he managed to take Beyonder's powers.

All happened in SW I

And as for the thread, the Apocalypse wins both scenarios.

iirc, he used his tech and feigned defeat, in order to catch Beyonder off-guard.. I'll re-read it but ...

Doom's entire plan revolved around Doom getting within arm's reach. Although he certainly would have avoided being shredded... if he could have helped it.

While trapped in Reed's body, Doom was able to unlock and access all of Reed's tech and his laboratories pretty effortlessly. And Reed's prep and tech > Apoc's, so...

Still without prep Doom wouldn't win against a high herald character. With prep I doubt it too but whatever.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Still without prep Doom wouldn't win against a high herald character. With prep I doubt it too but whatever.
*shrugs* Doom one-shot Classic Warlock.

^ More than a one-shot, but yes he did knock him out and bring Magus to his knees. Originally posted by TheTyrant
Still without prep Doom wouldn't win against a high herald character. With prep I doubt it too but whatever. Without prep Apocalypse wouldn't either. With prep, Doom's defeated Abstracts and those above Abstracts. Seriously...

Apocalypse has had decades or more of prep and still lost miserably...

Maybe being the biggest jobber in marvel has something to do with that?

Originally posted by galactusischere
Maybe being the biggest jobber in marvel has something to do with that?

By now, should that be considered in character for Apocalypse?

**** apocalypse with thousands of years and ceslestial tech he has never accomplised any of his goals .

Doom with will guts and brains alone has won his many of his battles.


If you have thousands of yers + celestial tech at your command and you still cant acomplish your goals you are shit.

Doomie wins

Originally posted by galactusischere
You need to re-read SW one. Neither Galactus nor Doom's tech was succesful taking down the Beyonder.

So what took down the Beyonder?

Originally posted by godking
**** apocalypse with thousands of years and ceslestial tech he has never accomplised any of his goals .

Doom with will guts and brains alone has won his many of his battles.

If you have thousands of yers + celestial tech at your command and you still cant acomplish your goals you are shit.
Originally posted by galactusischere
Maybe being the biggest jobber in marvel has something to do with that?

and...

Originally posted by K Von Doom
So what took down the Beyonder?
Originally posted by TheTyrant
No galactusischere is right. Doom failed misreably when he tried to steal Beyonder's powers that way. He was shreded to pieces, it was through Doom's sheer will power that he managed to take Beyonder's powers.

All happened in SW I

And as for the thread, the Apocalypse wins both scenarios.

Originally posted by Enyalus
*shrugs* Doom one-shot Classic Warlock. Was that the same fight when he (and Kang) tried to take the IG from Magus?

As for the fight, Doom in both scenarios wins.

Originally posted by Harbinger
Was that the same fight when he (and Kang) tried to take the IG from Magus?
That's the one.

Apocalypse has technopathy, telekenisis, and shapeshifting, which allow him to do so much more with his superior tech.
Doom can't win this battle.

And what has exactly Doom done in a fair one on one fight, that puts him at Apocalypse's level?

Hasn't Doom defeated Sentry once (he's lost once as well, but...) ? Plus as others have pointed out, one-shotting Warlock. Two-shotting Magus. Beaten Morganna Le Fey, beating Dr. Voodoo as the Sorcerer Supreme, taken on Savage Hulk, beaten Magneto, etc. He's able to compete with heralds on a consistent basis.

Hasn't Doom defeated Sentry once (he's lost once as well, but...) ?
That's nothing to brag about. Sentry stalemated WWH, and WWH would get stomped by even a jobbing Apocalypse

Plus as others have pointed out, one-shotting Warlock. Two-shotting Magus.
Magus and Warlock weren't expecting Doom and Kang to show-up. So sneak attack.

Apocalypse however has had the edge over guys like Loki, Black Bolt, Cable and High Evolutionary.

Doom might be smarter alot smarter but Apocalypse is too versatile for him and has powers that would greatly help him with his technology and prep. Plus he has 2.5 times as much prep as Doom does.

I'm picking Apo over Overrated Doom.

Is Doom's tech better than Apoc's tech?
For 2 years, I think Apoc can conjure some pretty powerful weapons using his knowledge of Celestial tech.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
No galactusischere is right. Doom failed misreably when he tried to steal Beyonder's powers that way. He was shreded to pieces, it was through Doom's sheer will power that he managed to take Beyonder's powers.


So it's all willpower? It had nothing to do with Doom's armor?

So if "sheer willpower" is all that made Doom triumphant over the Beyonder then even Captain America or Hal Jordan (without a ring) would win because they have equal willpower?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Apocalypse has technopathy, telekenisis, and shapeshifting, which allow him to do so much more with his superior tech.
Doom can't win this battle. Doom has high-level magic, personal adapters that haven't failed in siphoning all kinds of energy, immediate time manipulation abilities built-in to his armor, AND no jobber aura, which allow him to do so much more with his superiority in general. Doom can't help but win this battle. Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Is Doom's tech better than Apoc's tech?
For 2 years, I think Apoc can conjure some pretty powerful weapons using his knowledge of Celestial tech. What exactly is so impressive about his technological feats? Celestials are impressive, yes. Celestial tech should by association also be impressive, yes. What Apocalypse does with Celestial tech... is not as cleanly impressive automatically... unless you're thinking of some specific examples.

apocalypse makes a hulk bot

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Hasn't Doom defeated Sentry once (he's lost once as well, but...) ?
That's nothing to brag about. Sentry stalemated WWH, and WWH would get stomped by even a jobbing Apocalypse

Plus as others have pointed out, one-shotting Warlock. Two-shotting Magus.
Magus and Warlock weren't expecting Doom and Kang to show-up. So sneak attack.

Apocalypse however has had the edge over guys like Loki, Black Bolt, Cable and High Evolutionary.

Doom might be smarter alot smarter but Apocalypse is too versatile for him and has powers that would greatly help him with his technology and prep. Plus he has 2.5 times as much prep as Doom does.

In HOM, Black Bolt defeated Apocalypse. I don't know of any other occasions in which they fought each other. High Evolutionary was not at full power when Apocalypse defeated him because at full power, the High Evolutionary was able to contend with Galactus. Also, Apocalypse defeated Loki via sheer cunning and trickery. Otherwise, Apocalypse would have lost. Apocalypse defeating Cable is not an impressive feat since Cable was never at full power when contending with Apocalypse. Apocalypse may be more versatile, but that does not determine the outcome of this battle.

Doom has worked with technology similar to, or greater than Celestial Technology. For example, Watcher Technology, Pre-Retcon Beyonder's Technology, etc. Furthermore, he mastered the use of both pretty quickly.

I would love to see this battle, nevertheless. I wonder whose name sounds more menacing.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Doom has high-level magic, personal adapters that haven't failed in siphoning all kinds of energy, immediate time manipulation abilities built-in to his armor, AND no jobber aura, which allow him to do so much more with his superiority in general. Doom can't help but win this battle. What exactly is so impressive about his technological feats? Celestials are impressive, yes. Celestial tech should by association also be impressive, yes. What Apocalypse does with Celestial tech... is not as cleanly impressive automatically... unless you're thinking of some specific examples.


Apocalypse mentally controls his Celestial tech.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/Apoctech.png

^ Doom can control his tech by remote control also. So what?

Dr Doom destroys this weakling. Only the fittest may survive and it's not going to be Apocalypse.

Apocalypse.

Doom

Doom. Possibly spite.

I love Poccy but Doom wins this.

1- Doom for sure
2- I'll go with Apocalypse

Doom stomps, he plays on another level.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Doom stomps, he plays on another level.

What if Apocalypse has like 1 or 2 whistles from Super Mario Bros 3 and advances a few levels. Would he still be behind Doom?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
What if Apocalypse has like 1 or 2 whistles from Super Mario Bros 3 and advances a few levels. Would he still be behind Doom?
I would still give Doom a chance, with 1 whistle at least, but those pre-boss airship levels really eat up a lot of time.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Hasn't Doom defeated Sentry once (he's lost once as well, but...) ?
That's nothing to brag about. Sentry stalemated WWH, and WWH would get stomped by even a jobbing Apocalypse

Plus as others have pointed out, one-shotting Warlock. Two-shotting Magus.
Magus and Warlock weren't expecting Doom and Kang to show-up. So sneak attack.

Apocalypse however has had the edge over guys like Loki, Black Bolt, Cable and High Evolutionary.

Doom might be smarter alot smarter but Apocalypse is too versatile for him and has powers that would greatly help him with his technology and prep. Plus he has 2.5 times as much prep as Doom does. Doom has done more with less.

As i have said before if with thousands of years and celestial tech you cant achieve your goals you are pathetic.

Doom has taken over a world starting with litterally nothing more then brains willpower and guts.

I'm saying Apocalypse.

Originally posted by godking
Doom has taken over a world starting with litterally nothing more then brains willpower and guts.
It's true. Observe Doom's stat sheet.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
It's true. Observe Doom's stat sheet.
Professor Brothers FTW.