Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Only being in it's universe vs. most power being in it's universe.

LT.

The Living Tribunal.

Originally posted by galactusischere
LT. Originally posted by CortSether
The Living Tribunal.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Only being in it's universe vs. most power being in it's universe. what? nemisis is the person who created the multivers, living tribunal governs the multiverse, a multiverse has an infinit amout if universes in it

Infinity Being.

This has been done to death, i'm pretty sure of it.

Nemesis AKA The Infinity Being curbstomps. No-contest.

I really doubt that the LT was created by her.

Originally posted by galactusischere
I really doubt that the LT was created by her.
Maybe not, but she existed way before LT even had consciousness.

She existed before the creation of the Marvel Omniverse.

And how do you know that the LT didn't exist then? I mean he is the hand of TOAA after all, and the LT should be much beyond omniversal in power

Originally posted by galactusischere
And how do you know that the LT didn't exist then? I mean he is the hand of TOAA after all, and the LT should be much beyond omniversal in power
Mr. Master had scans about the Infinity Being.
From there, it is obvious that she was the ONLY being who existed in the Void.

And no, LT is NOT the hand of TOAA.
TOAA is TOAA.
There are beings more 'omnipotent' than the LT in the past, and probably will be in the future.

Nemesis is also beyond Omniversal. She's doesn't even have any restrictions unlike LT.
In fact, her power would eclipse Marvel's current Omniverse, imo. She could make a new one from scratch.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon

Nemesis is also beyond Omniversal.. LT>>IG..

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Mr. Master had scans about the Infinity Being.
From there, it is obvious that she was the ONLY being who existed in the Void.

And no, LT is NOT the hand of TOAA.
TOAA is TOAA.
There are beings more 'omnipotent' than the LT in the past, and probably will be in the future.

Nemesis is also beyond Omniversal. She's doesn't even have any restrictions unlike LT.
In fact, her power would eclipse Marvel's current Omniverse, imo. She could make a new one from scratch.

Im going to wait untill I see Mr.Master's take on this.

nemisis was originally similiar to DCs Primil monitor.
she was all there was existing until she created the omniverse, and then she split into the infinity gems to explore the omniverse , this was retconed or something though.

but LT is toaas hand really, like spectre and presence.

what is Earth-1218?

LT

Originally posted by nicamarvin
LT>>IG..
Complete IG (Nemesis) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LT

No, the IG is the Nemesis a significant part of the IB. IG + Ego gem = The Nemesis.

LT wins this thread with ease.

Eh.

I'll just let Mr. Master have his take on this.

However, all I can say is I am 101% sure Nemesis can kill/destroy/obliterate/erase LT with a gesture if she wanted to.

I doubt it.

The Living Tribunal exists in all multi-verses simuntaniously.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
I doubt it.

The Living Tribunal exists in all multi-verses simuntaniously.
And what does that prove?

Nemesis existed before those Multiverses even were created.

It proves that LT can create an infinite amount of ebony blades...and you know what happens then.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Im going to wait untill I see Mr.Master's take on this.
I take over for Mr. Master on weekends. You didn't know?

As Thanos explains, the Infinity Being was the first and only being in any and all realities, possessing limitless power:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_IBexplanation1.jpg

"It was all that was and all that was was it."

From the Infinity Being's suicide sprang the current Marvel Universe, and everything in it!

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_IBexplanation2.jpg

"From its ashes rose all that is currently reality, in all its many forms."

Further confirmation that the Infinity Being's suicide led to LT's birth comes in Heralds of Galactus #1, right here:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_IBexplanation3.jpg

Notice the 'beings of great power' on the far right panel? One of them is the Living Tribunal and his three faces.


Nemesis was, basically, God before the Marvel Universe came into existence. A being with limitless power, whose self-inflicted death created the entirety of Marvel's reality, including LT. If these two actually fought, TOAA could interfere and grant him the power to defeat Nemesis, like he granted him the power to supersede the Gauntlet's power while Warlock had it. However, the MU generally goes by the law of survival of the fittest. Which is why the LT has been usurped before. Namely in the future against Protege.

So I don't see TOAA interceding on LT's behalf. Meaning that Nemesis takes the win. Barring TOAA's interference, she was the more powerful being.

That still doesn't mean that she is more powerful than the LT.

For example(s): Eternity created the celestials...yet some of them are even more powerful than he is. Galactus created Tyrant, yet Tyrant was his equal. Galactus created the UN, yet the UN is more powerful than him. Ivo created Amazo, yet Amazo is more powerful than Amazo.

Alien Entity didn't seem that impressive either and he performed the same feat IB did.

Infinity Being dying and releasing a part of her energy created the entire Marvel reality and everything in it. Including LT, Eternity, etc.

Pretty powerful to me.

Plus didn't she get killed by an ebony blade? Not very omnipotent-like.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Infinity Being dying and releasing a part of her energy created the entire Marvel reality and everything in it. Including LT, Eternity, etc.

Pretty powerful to me.

And she had to die. I know that she wanted to die, but there is still no evidence that she could create all reality without commiting suicide.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Plus didn't she get killed by an ebony blade? Not very omnipotent-like.
She was creating universes with every ripple of power she let off IIRC.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
And she had to die. I know that she wanted to die, but there is still no evidence that she could create all reality without commiting suicide.
There's no evidence that she couldn't, either. Like you said. She wanted to die. Nothing against that.

Originally posted by Enyalus
There's no evidence that she couldn't, either. Like you said. She wanted to die. Nothing against that.

Meh.

Off-topic question: do you know when the Alien Entity first appeared?

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Meh.

Off-topic question: do you know when the Alien Entity first appeared?
I was going to give you an answer, but after looking for it, I apparently don't have it. Thought it was in a FF annual, but meh...Sorry.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I was going to give you an answer, but after looking for it, I apparently don't have it. Thought it was in a FF annual, but meh...Sorry.

NP, thanks for looking though

Alien Entity appeared after Marvel: The End, Iirc.

Or maybe I'm just messing things up?

Originally posted by TheTyrant

That still doesn't mean that she is more powerful than the LT.
The Infinity Being should be more powerful than the LT,
namely because 1. ... it was God, encompassing any and all,
and 2. it created everything,
including the LT,
including the IG which by itself can force the LT into a battle
that would destroy reality before LT wins.

And let's not forget,
that the LT had to come as a direct representation of TOAA's power
in order to cash in the win.

Lastly, even the IG is not the complete power of the Infinity Being,
it needs the "Ego" Gem to complete itself,
although the IG is the bulk of its power but not fully,
the IG still makes one God beneath the representational power of TOAA.
Originally posted by TheTyrant

For example(s):

1. Eternity created the celestials...yet some of them are even more powerful than he is.

2. Galactus created Tyrant, yet Tyrant was his equal.

3. Galactus created the UN, yet the UN is more powerful than him.
1. "some of them?" ... Only Scathan has proven to be above Eternity,
and we don't know who/what created Scathan
since he comes from a future 1000years later, on top of that,
it's quite unofficially clear that Scathan came with authority far beyond a Celestial's.

2. Tyrant was never Galactus' true equal.

3. Who said Galactus created the UN?
No one knows for sure,
but I believe Eternity created the UN to protect himself against Abraxas,
and if not Eternity,
then the Infinity Being did it (more probable considering the UN's power)
to protect reality from collapse (Abraxas) if its baby (Galactus) died.

It really makes sense when we know the Infinity Being created Galactus,
and the UN is an aspect of Galactus.
Originally posted by TheTyrant

Ivo created Amazo, yet Amazo is more powerful than Amazo.
I don't do DC.
Originally posted by TheTyrant

Alien Entity didn't seem that impressive either and he performed the same feat IB did.
The Alien Entity was able to drift back in time/space
folding the Marvelverse back to its pre-big bang point.
Then the AE created from within itself the "spark" that ignites the original big bang,
then the AE merged with the original big bang ("Fires/Engines of Creation"
then the AE using Reed's mind as a guide, re-created the Marvelverse into its future.

So the AE is the unofficial embodiment of the power of creation
from the very beginning to the very end.

Ridiculously impressive.

Originally posted by TheTyrant

Plus didn't she get killed by an ebony blade?
Actually friend, there was stipulation to that silliness.

Nemesis, was struggling for control of itself with the now conscious Infinity Gems,
this made Nemesis vulnerable enough to have the Gems separated by the blade,
via a sneak attack. It's not like Black Knight confronted her and won.
Still stupid if you ask me but they had to defeat God somehow to end the arc.

*note*

Nemesis was still able to wipe out 616 and the Ultraverse with a wave of her hand.
(that's two Universes across two Multiverses) and still kept reality stable after obliterating 616.
When the Ebony Blade performed its PIS feat,
the waves that were released from Nemesis' being, were creating UniverseS back to back,
while even stacking them on top of one another.
In fact, this nearly collapsed the Omniverse.
(and it was the same Infinity Gems that were able to reverse this,
while re-creating the original set-up to fix everything) so it all involved Nemesis' power.

if nemesis was the one who created everything and came before everything, were does TOAA who is supposed to be god fit in? should he not have existed forever and created everything and if he didnt then he isnt god nemesis is.

Originally posted by Scuzz2.0

if nemesis was the one who created everything and came before everything, were does TOAA who is supposed to be god fit in? should he not have existed forever and created everything and if he didnt then he isnt god nemesis is.
Nemesis, and everything else that surrounds the Omniverse
is nothing more than ink on pieces of paper to TOAA.

TOAA is the representational avatars of the writers/artists of Marvel.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/338/fantasticfour51119rx9.th.jpg

TOAA creates "reality" ... "omnipotence" ... "supreme beings" or what/whoever with the stroke of a pencil.

Originally posted by Mr Master

TOAA creates "reality" ... "omnipotence" ... "supreme beings" or what/whoever with the stroke of a pencil.


We will see more 'omnipotent' beings in the future. No doubt about it.

...I guess the Nemesis wins this.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Meh.

Off-topic question: do you know when the Alien Entity first appeared? Originally posted by Galan007
The Alien Entity only appeared in 2 issues: "Fantastic Four" v3 #531-532.

nemissis=primil monitor

While we take a look at the power of the nemesis as incredible.
What do you think her chances would have been against say thanos with the heart?

I'd go with thanos myself... As he basically would be instilled with the power of the writers/editors will.

But let's assume for a second that lt did have the full backing of toaa... Wouldn't lt still win... Omniverse be damned? But as such is within his power he could always restore the whole thing in an instant.

With TOAA's approval, LT would beat Nemesis, yes. So would Thanos with the HOTU.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nemesis, and everything else that surrounds the Omniverse
is nothing more than ink on pieces of paper to TOAA.

TOAA is the representational avatars of the writers/artists of Marvel.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/338/fantasticfour51119rx9.th.jpg

TOAA creates "reality" ... "omnipotence" ... "supreme beings" or what/whoever with the stroke of a pencil.

So, TOAA > Beyonder = THOTI > PR Molecule Man = AE = Nemesis > Living Tribunal?

Originally posted by galactusischere
So, TOAA > Beyonder = THOTI > PR Molecule Man = AE = Nemesis > Living Tribunal?
PR Beyonder > TOAA.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
PR Beyonder > TOAA.

Wrong. TOAA was the one that retconned Beyonder in the first place (since TOAA represents the Marvel editorial staff)

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Wrong. TOAA was the one that retconned Beyonder in the first place (since TOAA represents the Marvel editorial staff)
fffuuu

I've had it with this Marvel cosmic shit!


Ask Mr. Master, and he'll tell you why PR Beyonder WAS > TOAA.

Originally posted by rotiart
While we take a look at the power of the nemesis as incredible.
What do you think her chances would have been against say thanos with the heart?

I'd go with thanos myself... As he basically would be instilled with the power of the writers/editors will.

But let's assume for a second that lt did have the full backing of toaa... Wouldn't lt still win... Omniverse be damned? But as such is within his power he could always restore the whole thing in an instant.
The whole heart thing was actually a more honest approach to comic book battles. Thanos had the Heart and thus won because the writer deemed he would win. If the writer (TOAA) had deemed LT to win, then LT would win. Really its not much different from any fight where the guy who wins is the guy who the writer wanted to win. Therefore Heart=Ultimate Plot Coupon guaranteeing victory.

TOAA can make the LT as powerful as he needs him to be but in this case he needed the LT to lose so that the story could adva--I mean so Thanos could remove the 'imperfection'.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
fffuuu

I've had it with this Marvel cosmic shit!


Ask Mr. Master, and he'll tell you why PR Beyonder WAS > TOAA.
His opinion maybe. Beyond derived his powers from TOAA (the Editorial Staff/writers).

Well the Beyonder comes from... Beyond...
That all the power in the universe was like a drop and his power was millions of times greater or some such

Ill still go with toaa as his power would be the writers and thus without limit whereas beyonders still has a limit...

Although some will argue that the lt being representative of toaas power not being able to act shows that toaa is below beyonder

I think that toaa just like in marvel the end... Had a grandeur purpose in mind and let events play out as he wanted them too.

Infinity Being.. and very easily

Originally posted by rotiart
Well the Beyonder comes from... Beyond...
That all the power in the universe was like a drop and his power was millions of times greater or some such

Ill still go with toaa as his power would be the writers and thus without limit whereas beyonders still has a limit...

Although some will argue that the lt being representative of toaas power not being able to act shows that toaa is below beyonder

I think that toaa just like in marvel the end... Had a grandeur purpose in mind and let events play out as he wanted them too.
As I said TOAA is the one from which everything in Marvel is derived. The Writer created Beyonder and gave him his power.

I started my previous reply before yours posted...
Just as an FYI. Editing posts on iPhone equals pain
that's why I have some grammatically incorrect gems around here. :-)

and abestos seems o be riding mr m hard....
Shoot I got love for the guy too but Jesus man... Let go of his crotch!

Originally posted by rotiart
I started my previous reply before yours posted...
Just as an FYI. Editing posts on iPhone equals pain
that's why I have some grammatically incorrect gems around here. :-)

and abestos seems o be riding mr m hard....
Shoot I got love for the guy too but Jesus man... Let go of his crotch!
Him and Big C. I wonder if MM is flattered or creeped out by their attention.

Flattered... At first...
He's filing the restraining order tomorrow.
:-)

Maybe Marvel will bring back Nemesis

I was thinking about something...strange I know...but wouldn't nemesis=beyonder?In both the universes they came from they were all there was and all there was was them.They are both identical beings in their universes so techiniacally wouldn't their power be equal?

Nemesis supposedly birthed all things marvel... Including perhaps the what it's.... Ultraverse... Malibu... New universe... Stuff
so in effect it was "All" of marvel

the beyonder came from beyond the marvel universe...post retcon we see a universe where beyonders came from though we later find out beyonder wasn't a true beyonder...now he's a frigging mutant eternal

anyways originally all things not part of the marvel universe back then but apparently part of the omniverse.... Were beyonder....

Which to me makes Toaa>infinity being>preretcon beyonder=nemesis> pr mm....

Now you may ask why I view nemesis as separate fro
the infinity being... Well despite nemesis being obvious a gross power... He was no longer the only being in the universe anymore...

In nemesis story arc it was the interference of the sentient infinity gems that truly cause his downfall... Gems with powers on par with the being itself... Hence nemesis was no longer the sole and greatest power... That the infinity being was.

I await mr masters rebuttal. :-)

So what is if any is the relationship between Nemesis, the Infinity Being, and TOAA?

Toaa created the marvel universe/infinity being
the infinity being is the product of toaa
nemesis is a byproduct of the infinity being. The infinity being wa separated powerset wise into 7 gems.... Nemesis is the combination of those seven gems but hose power can be held back the the sentient gems...
The infinity being would not have ha that restriction
hence infinity being is greater than nemesis
an as toaa created both... He is greater than both...

Oh... And the marvel omniverse is actually the marvel megaverse...
Universe
multiverses are collections of similar universes
megaverse is a collection of multiverses held by the same parent company
omniverse is all comic industries... Dc image marvel vertigo etc...
And possibly even our "real" world

however whenever I read comics I try to determine which term they meant rather than what is written...

Ie if infinity being created the omniverse as written by marvel
but in dc siseneg or synnar created thedc universe bit neither made
appearances in each others comics... Then you can't really compare them....

And the single greatest point of conjecture? Marvel vs dc brothers...
:-) good luck figuring that out. The megaverse itself? Guardians of megaverse? Multiverses? And when access was popping back and forth...

Unlike others on this forum I believe that the issues leading to Marcel vs dc and after should be cannon if not the issues during marvel vs dc itself..."fan vote based fights are so unfair"

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Him and Big C. I wonder if MM is flattered or creeped out by their attention. pr1983

Originally posted by Omega Vision

So what is if any is the relationship between Nemesis, the Infinity Being, and TOAA?
TOAA created the Infinity Being/Nemesis
and all things that have ever been born/made in the Omniverse.
TOAA did this with the stroke of its pencil.
(that's the way TOAA's power works: two beings, one thinks up the story & the other draws them)

Classic Beyonder was not created by TOAA,
because the Beyonder always was,
and the Beyonder also encompassed a reality disconnected from the TOAA's Omniverse.

This is why Jim Shooter (TOAA & more in 1985)
claimed that Beyonder discovered him as well as the Marvel Omniverse.
He even states "we introduced the Beyonder & established
he had discovered these beings - us - we was studying"
he never even alludes to creating the fictional illustration known as the Beyonder,
and in fact Shooter instead makes himself part of the drop of water
that was the Marvelverse in comparison with the Beyonder.
This again is Shooter's attempt at making the Beyonder seem like something real
something like he's only telling the story about.

This literally separates TOAA from the Beyonder. (on panel)
(even though yes, in reality/the real world us readers know it was Shooter who created Beyonder)
But in the comic book reality (anything published by/within Marvel)
Beyonder was greater than even Shooter's existence within comics,
and that existence ... is that of TOAA.

......................................................................................


Jim Shooter - creator/writer of Secret Wars/Beyonder
(while he was Editor in chief of Marvel)

Get's interviewed ... about the Beyonder.

......................................................................................

Marvel Age is an official Marvel title,
created to discuss Marvel stories with the writers themselves of said stories
and even other intricacies concerning Marvel comics.

......................................................................................

Jim Shooter himself describes Classic Beyonder to us:


Jim states:


1. Beyonder "is a Multi-verse."

2. Beyonder "was like God before there was Genesis."

3. Beyonder's discovery of our Universe ... (Marvel Multiverse)

.... was like when inventor Leeuwenhoek, looked through his micro-scope ...

.... and discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water ... "

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3339/jim1wp8.th.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7402/jim2mj1.th.jpg

swank

This is why Beyonder had to be retconned, (de-powered)
by the next Editor in Chief (Tom DeFalco)
Beyonder was simply too much grandeur and power.

Originally posted by Mr Master
TOAA created the Infinity Being/Nemesis
and all things that have ever been born/made in the Omniverse.
TOAA did this with the stroke of its pencil.

Classic Beyonder was not created by TOAA,
because the Beyonder always was,
and the Beyonder also encompassed a reality disconnected from the TOAA's Omniverse.

This is why Jim Shooter (TOAA & more in 1985)
claimed that Beyonder discovered him as well as the Marvel Omniverse.
He even states "when we introduced the Beyonder"
he never even alludes to creating the fictional illustration known as the Beyonder,
which again is Shooter's attempt at making the Beyonder seem like something real
something like he's only telling the story about.

This literally separates TOAA from the Beyonder. (on panel)
(even though yes, in reality/the real world us readers know it was Shooter who created Beyonder)
But in the comic book reality (anything published by Marvel)
Beyonder was greater than even Shooter's existence within comics,
and that existence ... is that of TOAA.

......................................................................................


Jim Shooter - creator/writer of Secret Wars/Beyonder
(while he was Editor in chief of Marvel)

Get's interviewed ... about the Beyonder.

......................................................................................

Marvel Age is an official Marvel title,
created to discuss Marvel stories with the writers themselves of said stories
and even other intricacies concerning Marvel comics.

......................................................................................

Jim Shooter himself describes Classic Beyonder to us:


Jim states:


1. Beyonder "is a Multi-verse."

2. Beyonder "was like God before there was Genesis."

3. Beyonder's discovery of our Universe ... (Marvel Multiverse)

.... was like when inventor Leeuwenhoek, looked through his micro-scope ...

.... and discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water ... "

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3339/jim1wp8.th.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7402/jim2mj1.th.jpg

swank

This is why Beyonder had to be retconned, (de-powered)
by the next Editor in Chief (Tom DeFalco) simply too much grander and power.
That's funny how far they went to flesh him out as a character.
His character description (discovering reality) is similar to Morrison's Primal Monitor in a way.

Thanks for the info.

Originally posted by Mr Master
TOAA created the Infinity Being/Nemesis
and all things that have ever been born/made in the Omniverse.
TOAA did this with the stroke of its pencil.
(that's the way TOAA's power works: two beings, one thinks up the story & the other draws them)

Classic Beyonder was not created by TOAA,
because the Beyonder always was,
and the Beyonder also encompassed a reality disconnected from the TOAA's Omniverse.

This is why Jim Shooter (TOAA & more in 1985)
claimed that Beyonder discovered him as well as the Marvel Omniverse.
He even states "when we introduced the Beyonder"
he never even alludes to creating the fictional illustration known as the Beyonder,
which again is Shooter's attempt at making the Beyonder seem like something real
something like he's only telling the story about.

This literally separates TOAA from the Beyonder. (on panel)
(even though yes, in reality/the real world us readers know it was Shooter who created Beyonder)
But in the comic book reality (anything published by Marvel)
Beyonder was greater than even Shooter's existence within comics,
and that existence ... is that of TOAA.

......................................................................................


Jim Shooter - creator/writer of Secret Wars/Beyonder
(while he was Editor in chief of Marvel)

Get's interviewed ... about the Beyonder.

......................................................................................

Marvel Age is an official Marvel title,
created to discuss Marvel stories with the writers themselves of said stories
and even other intricacies concerning Marvel comics.

......................................................................................

Jim Shooter himself describes Classic Beyonder to us:


Jim states:


1. Beyonder "is a Multi-verse."

2. Beyonder "was like God before there was Genesis."

3. Beyonder's discovery of our Universe ... (Marvel Multiverse)

.... was like when inventor Leeuwenhoek, looked through his micro-scope ...

.... and discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water ... "

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3339/jim1wp8.th.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7402/jim2mj1.th.jpg

swank

This is why Beyonder had to be retconned, (de-powered)
by the next Editor in Chief (Tom DeFalco) simply too much grander and power. Thanks for the explanation

Though the Beyonder was outside of the Marvel Multiverse he was still from within the Omniverse, correct?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Though the Beyonder was outside of the Marvel Multiverse he was still from within the Omniverse, correct? yes. everything beyond the marvel multiverse is considerd "beyond"

... I love mr m.
But I'll still disagree with all of it.
To me if it wasn't onpanel... Despite the writers intentions
it doesn't count

yes I understand who he was...
But it's like hulk being first done in grey then green then retconning it that he was always green... Then going back and saying it was mixed identities

Just cause they always meant green isn't what was shown on panel

intentions and interviews do not equal on panel evidence to me... Different viewpoints. :-) agrees to disagree

Originally posted by Omega Vision

Though the Beyonder was outside of the Marvel Multiverse
he was still from within the Omniverse, correct?
Nah friend,
he was completely separate from anything connected to the Marvelverse:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6606/beyondspacetime2pq7.th.jpg

The Omniverse (all universes) in Beyonder's era was the Multiverse,
which as the same was all universes back them.

Actually by that panel
all adjcent universes to marvel would be the what ifs... Similar universes adjacent to ours but of slight differences

which is all part of te megaverse/omniverse which are not apart of those adjavent Universes...

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah friend,
he was completely separate from anything connected to the Marvelverse:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6606/beyondspacetime2pq7.th.jpg

The Omniverse (all universes) in Beyonder's era was the Multiverse,
which as the same was all universes back them.
Okay fine but by its very definition (I know logic and comic books don't always go well together) an Omniverse would include everything (including DC, Looney Tunes, Disney, Star Wars, the real world, etc.) and anything outside it would be non-existent because existence and laying outside of the Omniverse would be contradictions.

If you're arguing that Marvel's position was such back then I don't have a problem with that but at least since OHOTMU the position of Marvel has been that the Omniverse includes everything including the real world and all of fiction.

Again Marvel's position has probably changed on the matter.
shrug

Originally posted by rotiart

... I love mr m.
But I'll still disagree with all of it.
To me if it wasn't on panel... Despite the writers intentions
it doesn't count

Just cause they always meant green isn't what was shown on panel

intentions and interviews do not equal on panel evidence to me...
I love ya too rot ... but


*** Shooter describing Beyonder on panel in the Secret Wars series ***

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3652/buni1sh8cs4.th.jpg


Which is right in line with how Shooter described Beyonder in the interview:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7402/jim2mj1.th.jpg

I've said that beyonder is all of the megaverse
the megaverse being marvel
the multiverse even marvels would be a drop in the bucket that is the marvel company itself...
And he came to study the multiverse... Because it was the one thing that wasn't apart of him... So he Is the entire megaverse less our multiverse
:-P

hence why I put pr beyonder up there with nemese now

Originally posted by rotiart

Actually by that panel
all adjcent universes to marvel would be the what ifs...
Similar universes adjacent to ours but of slight differences

which is all part of te megaverse/omniverse which are not apart of those adjavent Universes...
Nah good friend.

Owen makes it clear "beyond all known existence"
All of Marvel was the Multiverse in 85' .. there was no extras.
Originally posted by Omega Vision

Okay fine but by its very definition (I know logic and comic books don't always go well together) an Omniverse would include everything (including DC, Looney Tunes, Disney, Star Wars, the real world, etc.) and anything outside it would be non-existent because existence and laying outside of the Omniverse would be contradictions.

If you're arguing that Marvel's position was such back then I don't have a problem with that but at least since OHOTMU the position of Marvel has been that the Omniverse includes everything including the real world and all of fiction.

Again Marvel's position has probably changed on the matter.

Actually, Marvel has its own Omniverse and it has nothing to do with any other company.

A writer did try to join that idea in their 2005 Handbooks,
but this idea was quickly crushed in the 06/07 and 08 Handbooks,
which clearly states,
that TOAA created the Omniverse. (obviously Marvel's omniverse since each company has its own)

Heck,
Wanda tore the Omniverse to pieces and re-built it with a thought:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_mjj0.jpg

We or you, wouldn't actually suggest
that Wanda tore DC, Looney Tunes, Disney, Star Wars, the real world, etc as well?

*** I also have ridiculous scanned proof of Marvel's Omniverse being depicted on panel.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I love ya too rot ... but


*** Shooter describing Beyonder on panel in the Secret Wars series ***

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3652/buni1sh8cs4.th.jpg


Which is right in line with how Shooter described Beyonder in the interview:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7402/jim2mj1.th.jpg



Rot do not argue with Mr. Masters for he is always right

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah good friend.

Owen makes it clear "beyond all known existence"
All of Marvel was the Multiverse in 85' .. there was no extras.

Actually, Marvel has its own Omniverse and it has nothing to do with any other company.

A writer did try to join that idea in their 2005 Handbooks,
but this idea was quickly crushed in the 06/07 and 08 Handbooks,
which clearly states,
that TOAA created the Omniverse. (obviously Marvel's omniverse since each company has its own)

Heck,
Wanda tore the Omniverse to pieces and re-built it with a thought:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/th_mjj0.jpg

We or you, wouldn't actually suggest
that Wanda tore DC, Looney Tunes, Disney, Star Wars, the real world, etc as well?

*** I also have ridiculous scanned proof of Marvel's Omniverse being depicted on panel.
I wouldn't suggest it, I would only suggest that Marvel's new "Omniverse" isn't an Omniverse at all since it doesn't encapsulate all possible reality, rather I'd call it a Super-Megaverse or something.

Its a matter of semantics really. I don't think Marvel should be tossing around terms like that so cavalierly without regard for their literal meanings.

It doesn't really matter, it just irks me a bit.

Originally posted by rotiart

I've said that beyonder is all of the megaverse
the megaverse being marvel
the multiverse even marvels would be a drop in the bucket that is the marvel company itself...
And he came to study the multiverse...
Because it was the one thing that wasn't apart of him...
I disagree good friend.

Marvel (officially since 06') contains at-least two Megaverses that we know of within their Omniverse.

That aside, in Beyonder's classic era, there was only two realities,
the infinite Multiverse, and the Beyond Realm.
Simply put, the Beyond realm was everything beyond the infinite Multiverse.
Originally posted by rotiart

So he Is the entire megaverse less our multiverse
Beyonder has nothing to do with the term Megaverse.
Originally posted by rotiart

hence why I put pr beyonder up there with nemese now
According to the Writer/Creator of the Beyonder & Secret Wars I & II,
while simultaneously also being the Editor in Chief of Marvel comics,
which makes him not only TOAA but the authority above TOAA,
the Beyonder was an ocean
while he and the universe he's a part of Marvelverse) was a drop a water in comparison.

Originally posted by Omega Vision

I wouldn't suggest it, I would only suggest that Marvel's new "Omniverse" isn't an Omniverse at all since it doesn't encapsulate all possible reality, rather I'd call it a Super-Megaverse or something.

Its a matter of semantics really. I don't think Marvel should be tossing around terms like that so cavalierly without regard for their literal meanings.
I hear you, but I'm just conveying Marvel comic facts.


In the Winter 2007 Bios ... TOAA CREATED the Omniverse.

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/928/omni2mz6.th.jpg

The entity believed to be the Supreme being/Creator of the Omniverse"

.............................................................................................


On Panel ... coincidentally,

Brian protects the SAME exact definition/Omniverse above: (that TOAA CREATED)


http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7541/omni3py5.th.jpg

"Reality ... Brian came to realize the size and breadth of Reality,
he learned of the Omniverse and its unending alternatives,
Alternative Realities ...
the Omniverse is the collection of All those possibilities.

........................................................................


In the 2008 questionnaires to the WRITERS of the Exiles,
the Omniverse is an Infinite amount of MultiverseS.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4809/omni6xv0.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8734/omni7vb1.jpg

"The Omniverse ... There are infinite MULTIverseS inside it"

.............................................................................................

Coincidentally,

Marvel's Reality is ALSO an Infinite amount of MultiverseS:

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4753/h9vb6.th.jpg

"In the Countless MultiverseS you (Alex) alone are unique"

"So much Power in such a small mind ...

we could have Conquered the MultiverseS together"

.............................................................................................


The Marvel Omniverse
has not only been mentioned, referrenced and affected,
it's been litertally artistically depicted ... as in illustrated:

Many times, and here's just another example from 08'

..........................................................................


Exiles - (2008)


http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/5937/87664947vw3.th.jpg

"Those lights we've been assuming was a star, just as we see from Earth,
they represent entire Dimensions.

I think that's a representation of the entire Omniverse,
we're looking at All Creation"

....................................................................


Or matrix/Merlyn showing us what he protects:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9923/omni2cn6.th.jpg

"The Omniverse"

..........................................................................


Or an alternate Reed packing tech that can wipe out the Omniverse:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7536/omnipt3ri4.th.jpg

"I offer the Omniverse"


***There's tons of more evidence I have scanned, but this should be enough.

Like I said....Always right.

See... Again we get into semantics and opinions about how to declare the existence of megaverse omniverse

and I've always felt that when you represent the beyonder saga as you do... It goes into the fact that shooter appears o be identifying the possibility of the marvel megaverse....

And owen speaking is just as credible as thanos calling himself god. Only the narration gives credence to fact. The other...
Despite the power of Owen is simply opinion... In fact
Owens hardly if ever been portrayed as all knowing... All powerful maybe...

In comparison Adam warlock tells us during the ig saga
that he has seen all possible outcomes with living tribunal and gave up the ig...

Power isn't knowledge althought knowledge is power if you peek at reed with the ultimate nullifier...

Even on your own panel evidence doesn't it say beyonder is a multiverse coming into the marvel universe? Not the marvel multiverse? Hence my comparisons of megaverse to multiverse...

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Like I said....Always right.
Except on the occasions when he's wrong.

Cripes, I need a drink...

blowup

isnt our real world a universe within the marvel universe? earth 1218 is whats it called. apperently thats us and also the comic book writers. look it up if you dont believe me.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
isnt our real world a universe within the marvel universe? earth 1218 is whats it called. apperently thats us and also the comic book writers. look it up if you dont believe me.
Its similar to Earth Prime in DC, its incredibly similar to our world but it isn't our world due to subtle differences: in both cases superheroes sometimes visit them which doesn't (to our knowledge) happen here.

Way to go Mr. M

Ur always a breath of fresh air



I can tell all, Shooter prolly lost his job over the Beyonder sillyness, but its written. Writers write and Editors edit. Way of comics