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PIS off
CIS off
CIP off

CIP?? Character Induced Poopies?

Also, Surfer.

Haha, Digi made a funny.

.

surfer is faster than flash in space going warp speeds, on earth he is not as fast and cant make sharp turns like flash does, flash wins

I would think the surfer takes it, people were posting about a picosecond speedblitz and total speed stealing in a four way fight in another thread and I got curious about this. I dont think Flash's sharp curving skills will make much difference here

Surfers got this.

this would be the quickest win in KMC history. as soon as Surfer makes contact with his first attack, game over.


where do people get this stuff about Surfer not being fast at turning/manoeuvring?
Surfer speedblitzed Nova and most definitely did turn fast, he pulled an arc at such a speed that Worldmind couldn't process what was coming.

anyway, Surfer 1M/10.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
surfer is faster than flash in space going warp speeds, on earth he is not as fast and cant make sharp turns like flash does, flash wins

Flash wins via sharp turns....

Flash turns into a toaster, with sharp edges

Silver Surfer turns Flash into salt.

flash wins 10/10

Surfer's fast enough to react to a CIS free Wally. He's fast enough to track a CIS free Wally. He's got the same intangibility as him, and shielding. Energy absorption just like Wally, except to a higher extent. More raw power and vastly superior strength.

Think Surfer takes it.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Surfer's fast enough to react to a CIS free Wally. He's fast enough to track a CIS free Wally. He's got the same intangibility as him, and shielding. Energy absorption just like Wally, except to a higher extent. More raw power and vastly superior strength.

Think Surfer takes it. i want flash to win

Originally posted by Enyalus
Surfer's fast enough to react to a CIS free Wally. He's fast enough to track a CIS free Wally. He's got the same intangibility as him, and shielding. Energy absorption just like Wally, except to a higher extent. More raw power and vastly superior strength.

Think Surfer takes it.

Surfer is faster than Flash. Surfer is more versatile. Surfer is more powerful. Surfer is a herald to Galactus. Flash loses.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Surfer is faster than Flash. Surfer is more versatile. Surfer is more powerful. Surfer is a herald to Galactus. Flash loses. all the others maybe right but surfer is not faster than flash..

Yes he is. He has at times moved literally thousands of times FTL. Flash though might have FTL combat speed, though I strongly doubt it(Surfer doesn't have FTL combat speed).

Flash wins

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Yes he is. He has at times moved literally thousands of times FTL. Flash though might have FTL combat speed, though I strongly doubt it(Surfer doesn't have FTL combat speed).
Flash can fight at FTL speeds. The Zoom fight is proof of it.

He stole Jay Garrick' speed IIRC.

Speed steal. Duh

Flash is faster IMO, but the SS still wins this due to being more powerful overall.

I think they can both fight FTL and their upper limits are poorly defined if they exist at all. I believe both have displayed the reaction times to keep up with the other

total speed steal seems to take some time and I dont know if it would be that simple against the pc.

I haven't seen Silver Surfer move @ picosecond speeds. Ever.

Also, with the full Speed Force, Wally was almost as fast as Zoom.

Silver Surfer is more versatile though.
He may never be able to tag Wally with any direct attacks, but he can make black holes and other crazy omnidirectional attacks.
Wally's only counter is he'd use Infinity mass punches to knock Surfer before he finishes up what's he's doing.

Flash 6/10, imo.

Wally wins.

Surfer

Surfer but it'll be one hell of a fight..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBnCV-Pb3SU

What songs have been written for the Flash.
Even Flash Gordon got an awesome Queen song.
The Surfer wins.

Surfer and withtout to much trouble.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Flash is faster IMO, but the SS still wins this due to being more powerful overall.

thank you for being the most reasonable person here.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I haven't seen Silver Surfer move @ picosecond speeds. Ever.

Also, with the full Speed Force, Wally was almost as fast as Zoom.

Silver Surfer is more versatile though.
He may never be able to tag Wally with any direct attacks, but he can make black holes and other crazy omnidirectional attacks.
Wally's only counter is he'd use Infinity mass punches to knock Surfer before he finishes up what's he's doing.

Flash 6/10, imo. So imp's win 6/10 fights for Flash?

Aside from that, I can't remember any picosecond feats from Flash. I think there might have been two in the last volume of JLA. I know there aren't any in the Flash book.

I'd look in the respect thread, but...I'd feel like TP.

How about lightspeed?

Uh-huh. Got that. Check.

Flasssshhhh!

Wally, easily.

surfer...

Originally posted by Placidity
How about lightspeed?

how about it?

i'll take Surfer for the win.. SS also has temporal manipulation and better processing speed then flash.

Browsing the thread, it seems there were a lot of stupid things said, and a few posters, unsurprisingly, agreeing with them. Like this, for example: Originally posted by Enyalus
Surfer's fast enough to react to a CIS free Wally. He's fast enough to track a CIS free Wally.

I don't consider Surfer to be anywhere near somebody like, say, Quicksilver in combat speed, and he has never been consistently or even somehow repeatedly been portrayed as having that level of actual close quarters combat speed.

Needless to say, he'd be a statue to Flash.

I'm curious what evidence exists to support the notion that Surfer has battle speed on par with Wally?

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm curious what evidence exists to support the notion that Surfer has battle speed on par with Wally?

How would you define battle speed? And how fast would the flash's be?

The speed at which SS can think, act, tap into his powers and coordenate their use is so far above quicksilver's, it's not even funny. He has close to zero cqc or h2h feats because he's a blaster, not a brawler, and he lives in outer space.

Originally posted by 753
How would you define battle speed? The zig-zag type of speed used when battling in close quarters on some type of planetoid.

Originally posted by Galan007
The zig-zag type of speed used when battling in close quarters on some type of planetoid.

Well, like I said he has almost no cqc showings because of his concept: fast flying blaster, not brawler, and the fact that he lives in space, but he does have these things

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4184/silversurfer198800908mj9.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/3690/silversurfer19880090910wh9.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7694/silversurferannual0508tc4.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9517/silversurfer198902115hj1.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1935/silversurfer199003316ik9.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5174/silversurfer198902418te5.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4607/silversurfer198902419zi3.jpg

There are some others that I'm trying to find.

As combat I understand the speed necessary to damage others while avoiding damage with the powerset one has. So combat speed is the speed at which one can do combat effectively regardless of how it is done. So, obviously, for the flash that means blitzing, maneuvering and punching. But for the SS it means thinking, blasting in one or all directions, raising forcefields, transmuting, opening portals, bullrushing, flying arround going intangible, etc. Making a grab for the IG from a light year away in what should be less than a second (the time it took thanos to throw a punch after having initiated the blow) shows he can coordinate and act while moving at absurd speeds.

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4062/theinfinitygauntlet0442nt1.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/113/theinfinitygauntlet0443pu8.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9909/theinfinitygauntlet0444le1.jpg

SS's reaction times are well within nanoseconds, flash's might be even smaller, but saying SS has the speed to fight the flash means he can tap into his powers and use them effectively within the timeframes of this battle, eg. by going intangible to avoid a blitz of IMPs while blowing up the battlefield.

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg

Flash migh have an agility and physical coordination advantage based on feats and even a reaction time advantage, but even if the SS was a totally uncoordinated clutz, which he isnt, with his thought activated powerset he could still take flash out without moving a limb just by controlling the board and using his powers intelligently.

Flash's initial reaction time advantage would only be usefull for an initial blitz before SS can react, but given his durabilty and own impressive reaction times, I dont think the flash can put him down before he has an oportunity to use his powers in both offensive and defensive forms.

SS has range, power output, versatility, durabilty, sensorial input and probably maximum speed advantages to take this.

Originally posted by 753
SS has range, power output, versatility, durabilty, sensorial input and probably maximum speed advantages to take this. So if you already have a preconceived notion that Surfer can beat Wally, then why even make the thread?

Originally posted by Galan007
So if you already have a preconceived notion that Surfer can beat Wally, then why even make the thread?

more or less we all have a notion of who we think wins a thread when we make one, don't we?

Originally posted by Galan007
So if you already have a preconceived notion that Surfer can beat Wally, then why even make the thread?

To debate - which is the point of this site - and to see how people would view the fight going. I became curious about it after so many people believed flash to be above SS, SM and Thor in a four way fight. Besides, if people can demonstrate that Wally would win a majority, I will have no problem with changing my mind. My notion of the outcome is based on what I have seen of the characters, so it's not really pre-conceived, it simply precedes the opening of this thread.

With a history as long as the Silver Surfer's, I think you can find a couple of things that could be considered super speed perception feats, but I don't think that indicates that he has them.

For instance, I'm pretty sure I could find an equal number of 'super speed' feats for the very obviously human-level Green Lanterns, even a couple that specifically mention that it only takes human level reflexes to navigate complicated 'zig zags' and what not through asteroid fields.

As for the thread, when both are operating at normal levels, the Surfer is going to win.

But if this is both of them operating at peak, as in their very best, that Wally - who owned the god damn Anti Monitor - has a very good chance of taking it.

Originally posted by Desaad


But if this is both of them operating at peak, as in their very best, that Wally - who owned the god damn Anti Monitor - has a very good chance of taking it.

when did he do that?

Originally posted by Desaad
With a history as long as the Silver Surfer's, I think you can find a couple of things that could be considered super speed perception feats, but I don't think that indicates that he has them.

For instance, I'm pretty sure I could find an equal number of 'super speed' feats for the very obviously human-level Green Lanterns, even a couple that specifically mention that it only takes human level reflexes to navigate complicated 'zig zags' and what not through asteroid fields.

But several of the ones I posted for him have specific timeframes that are completely impossible to achieve with human-like reactions and involve high end superspeed perceptions.

Originally posted by Desaad

For instance, I'm pretty sure I could find an equal number of 'super speed' feats for the very obviously human-level Green Lanterns, even a couple that specifically mention that it only takes human level reflexes to navigate complicated 'zig zags' and what not through asteroid fields.
at light speed?

Originally posted by Warlord
when did he do that?

Chained Lightning, I believe, was the arc. He went back in time an effort to save Barry Allen.

Originally posted by 753
But several of the ones I posted for him have specific timeframes that are completely impossible to achieve with human-like reactions and involve high end superspeed perceptions.

I don't really agree. I don't want to tear apart each individual showing you posted (in part because I acknowledge that one or two are legitimate), but just looking at the first example you posted -- that isn't combat speed. That's him rushing a bubble. There isn't any real finesse required there, just charging forward and scooping the girls up in his arms. I consider that to be a great TRAVEL speed feat, but he's essentially going in a straight line. Taking an example, again, I don't think a GL is generally considered to be a super speed opponent but Hal has outraced the outwardly expanding energy field of an atomic blast (In New Frontier, no less, which was one of the weaker portrayals of the GL power ring).

Originally posted by Warlord
at light speed?

If I looked? Very probably.

But there are enough of him doing complex turns within onrushing meteors, stuff like like that, that pretty much squashes the idea that that stuff is thought to be real combat super speed.

Again, there are bound to be a few examples for any character that's been around long enough, with enough appearances, but percentage wise I don't think it's really enough to warrant a classification of having combat super speed.

Originally posted by 753
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4184/silversurfer198800908mj9.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/3690/silversurfer19880090910wh9.jpgI find it funny that your first scans specifically hurt your argument.

But then he travels that fast

Which proves he's got a good amount of Travel speed, which no one is disputing.

But the scene as a whole contradicts the idea of genuine combat, perceptional super speed.

The only example I've seen on this thread that conclusively indicates super speed perceptions would have been the 'searching earth' scan, which is one of the few examples I've seen period over the years. And with his enhanced cosmic senses, even that could be rationalized away (though I think the intent was that he searched it at super speed).

Originally posted by Desaad
If I looked? Very probably.



then my friend that only means that their reflexes are augmented by the ring in superhuman levels

Originally posted by Warlord
then my friend that only means that their reflexes are augmented by the ring in superhuman levels

Perhaps, but we've specifically seen that a Green Lantern can navigate through onrushing meteors with just his natural perceptions. I'm pretty sure that Norrin Radd doing the same is just him using normal perceptions to do so, nothing more interesting than that.

i thought flash with all of the speed force could run at infinity speeds? or is that not cannon?

Surfer

Originally posted by thanos-prime
Surfer

Originally posted by 753
They don't, he had to grab them and move them out, that's an elaborate action right there so he can perceive things and act accordinlgy at those speeds as it is safe to assume he alredy entered the bubble at a sufficeint speed to escape it. Again, I do not equate action or combat speed to cqc h2h speed.

They do, because they demonstrated that he couldn't have performed a complex action in regards to the gem, and instead had to just bum rush the two girls before they exploded. That's not a complex action in and of itself, he's just rushing at a target.

If he had, say, had to carry out multiple people individually or two at a time at that speed, yeah, we'd be talking about someone who was going in, picking people specific people up, dropping them off, then turning back, choosing one or two more people, etc.

Originally posted by Desaad
Which proves he's got a good amount of Travel speed, which no one is disputing.

But the scene as a whole contradicts the idea of genuine combat, perceptional super speed.

The only example I've seen on this thread that conclusively indicates super speed perceptions would have been the 'searching earth' scan, which is one of the few examples I've seen period over the years. And with his enhanced cosmic senses, even that could be rationalized away (though I think the intent was that he searched it at super speed).

Following electronic signals inside a complex maze requires a significant fraction of c and very sharp maneuvering and inertia control.

The starship blitzes are truly inconclusive.

In the IG feat, an extremely conservative estimate that has thanos taking 3 whole seconds to deliver that punch (when even normal humans can punch in less than a second) would have SS crossing a light year at more than 10 million times the speed of light, seeing, or somehow perceiving, the IG and then reaching for it.

There is also the nanosecond reaction time shown on panel, he processed a situtation, recognized a time limit to act on it, described it mentally and acted upon it. Emitting an energy pulse, for instance, in the same time frame should be well within his limits.

You may say he is slower than the flash, but there is no way you can really claim he has human-like time perceptions. Some of the green lanterns feats also mandatorily require some sort of superhuman time perception.

Surfer's superhuman reactions are shown less often because it's not a main focus of the character's powerset, but I think it goes far beyond ocasional showings that anyone who's been arround that long have.

Originally posted by Desaad
They do, because they demonstrated that he couldn't have performed a complex action in regards to the gem, and instead had to just bum rush the two girls before they exploded. That's not a complex action in and of itself, he's just rushing at a target.

If he had, say, had to carry out multiple people individually or two at a time at that speed, yeah, we'd be talking about someone who was going in, picking people specific people up, dropping them off, then turning back, choosing one or two more people, etc.

He dropped the gem to get the elder to release them, the elder cheated and sent him away with a distraction: chasing the damsels in distress. That has nothing to do with the feat itself, which still required seeing them inside the bubble and grabbing them - equivalent to tagging in a battle - at the speeds he was going in order to escape the explosion. Evidently he knew what he was doing and had the time perception to act accordingly. If he didn't, he'd just be bullrushing blindly in a general direction without seeing or understanding whats going on arround him and wouldn't be able to take them in his arms.

Originally posted by 753
Following electronic signals inside a complex maze requires a significant fraction of c and very sharp maneuvering and inertia control.

Okay, that's fair..that's an arguable one.



Agreed. It's the type of thing that you see Starfire or Adam Strange doing.



I see that, again, as him just bum rushing.



I don't buy that 'nanosecond reaction time' bit as anything more than hyperbole. Similar things get said about Captain America, Batman and Spiderman.



Human like perceptions, no. He's got cosmic awareness and enhanced senses, undoubtedly.

But super speed perceptions? Combat super speed? I continue to deny that.

Which doesn't mean that he can't take out Super Speed foes, mind you, because there IS a difference. I don't think Thor has any measurable combat super speed either, but just recently he showed that he was capable of taking on/out Quicksilver.




Right, which is my point -- even blatantly human level characters like GLs are going to have some super speed examples, just by the nature of the type of comics they are in. I just think that they are so few and far between - for both heralds and GLs - that it's generally not a super power I consider them having.

Originally posted by 753
He dropped the gem to get the elder to release them, the elder cheated and sent him away with a distraction: chasing the damsels in distress. That has nothing to do with the feat itself, which still required seeing them inside the bubble and grabbing them - equivalent to tagging in a battle - at the speeds he was going in order to escape the explosion. Evidently he knew what he was doing and had the time perception to act accordingly. If he didn't, he'd just be bullrushing blindly in a general direction without seeing or understanding whats going on arround him and wouldn't be able to take them in his arms.

All he would have had to do was had his arms open and outstretched to grab them. It wouldn't have taken any special super speed perceptions to do that. Again, had he had to perform a more complex action you'd have a point, but not that IMHO.

you'd still require complex motor action...

Originally posted by Desaad
Okay, that's fair..that's an arguable one.



Agreed. It's the type of thing that you see Starfire or Adam Strange doing.



I see that, again, as him just bum rushing.



I don't buy that 'nanosecond reaction time' bit as anything more than hyperbole. Similar things get said about Captain America, Batman and Spiderman.



Human like perceptions, no. He's got cosmic awareness and enhanced senses, undoubtedly.

But super speed perceptions? Combat super speed? I continue to deny that.

Which doesn't mean that he can't take out Super Speed foes, mind you, because there IS a difference. I don't think Thor has any measurable combat super speed either, but just recently he showed that he was capable of taking on/out Quicksilver.




Right, which is my point -- even blatantly human level characters like GLs are going to have some super speed examples, just by the nature of the type of comics they are in. I just think that they are so few and far between - for both heralds and GLs - that it's generally not a super power I consider them having. So they actually state nanosecond and you don't buy it. This is called picking and choosing.

This one

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6231/silversurfer198902312rp5.jpg

Someone need to post that scan where he fly around every spot on the planet earth before Doctor Strange completed a sentence. Thats faster than some flash sh** if you ask me.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Regardless of what you believe, nothing I said was false. As for reacting (hell, it's also a tracking feat) there's this:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SS_lightspeedmaneuvering0.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SS_lightspeedmaneuvering1.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_SS_lightspeedmaneuvering2.jpg

Surfer's tracking a wireless electronic signal through a maze-like computer-run planet and keeping up with it, while wounded.

And I would post the scan where he mentally calculates where his enemy is teleporting, then reacts accordingly, but I don't have it. Regardless, I'm sure you and everyone else has already seen it.

So, I don't find it hard to believe he can react to Wally. And he can track him. Nothing I said was stupid. But...but Phil sayd Flash can runs fast and he have lightning on his heads.

Originally posted by carver9
Someone need to post that scan where he fly around every spot on the planet earth before Doctor Strange completed a sentence. Thats faster than some flash sh** if you ask me.

I already posted it.

Originally posted by 753
I already posted it.

No you didnt. I just went back to look for it and none of your scans have it.

I think we are talking about two different scans.

It's the third scan on my second post on page 3 of the thread, there was even a discussion about it afterwards, but here you go:

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7694/silversurferannual0508tc4.jpg

Originally posted by 753
It's the third scan on my second post on page 3 of the thread, there was even a discussion about it afterwards, but here you go:

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7694/silversurferannual0508tc4.jpg

Whats to discuss about it? Its a speed feat, one of the best speed feats that I have seen.

More Surfer combat speed (courtesy of Naija):

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Surfercmbatspeeddisplay.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Whats to discuss about it? Its a speed feat, one of the best speed feats that I have seen.

That's not that great of a speed feat. SS has cosmic awareness. He could have easily just went out and scanned the Earth from a distance and came back.

Originally posted by Enyalus
More Surfer combat speed (courtesy of Naija):

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silver%20surfer%20feats/th_Surfercmbatspeeddisplay.jpg

That's awesome. But still its in space where distance is vast and thus maneuvering is much easier than actually maneuvering within a small battle distance of say 3m.

The problem with SS is that he isn't shown to be that fast (maneuvering wise) when fighting on planets or in h2h type situations.

What is your obsession with 3 meters?

Originally posted by Mindset
What is your obsession with 3 meters?

Because within that distance is where punches are thrown and typically is the limit of where most beings of Super human reflexes can't react to light speed attacks.

Shut up.

10 feet is the range where most punches are thrown?? O_o

Originally posted by h1a8
That's not that great of a speed feat. SS has cosmic awareness. He could have easily just went out and scanned the Earth from a distance and came back.

What are you talking about, he search the entire planet with flight, no cosmic awareness.

Originally posted by h1a8
That's awesome. But still its in space where distance is vast and thus maneuvering is much easier than actually maneuvering within a small battle distance of say 3m.

The problem with SS is that he isn't shown to be that fast (maneuvering wise) when fighting on planets or in h2h type situations.
I'm not concerned with whether or not he can keep up with Flash's punches in CQC. No, he can't punch as fast as the Flash can. But he can keep up with his closing movements, and track the Flash wherever he goes.

It's not even in character for Surfer to go H2H with someone as fast as the Flash. But being able to follow the Flash while he's running, and track him wherever he runs to, and then blast him with incredible energy projection....ta da. He doesn't need the Flash's H2H speed.

EDIT: Oh, and I just showed on the previous page that he can maneuver at near-light speeds on a planet, inside of rooms and such.

Originally posted by carver9
Someone need to post that scan where he fly around every spot on the planet earth before Doctor Strange completed a sentence. Thats faster than some flash sh** if you ask me.
Nah.
Wally keeping up with Zoom is arguably the best combat speed feat by any speedster.
BTW, Silver Surfer would be a statue against Zoom.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Nah.
A DC Speedster keeping up with another DC speedster is arguably the best combat speed feat by any speedster.
BTW, Silver Surfer would be a statue against Zoom.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

Zoom isn't a speedster

and Flash didn't do it under his own power...he used Jay's and Quick's speed as well IIRC

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Zoom isn't a speedster

Sigh. Oh yeah, cuz Zoom doesn't run and move fast right?

Time based or not, the type of power he has doesn't remove the
fact that he fits the description of a speedster almost perfectly. :-/

FAIL.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Sigh. Oh yeah, cuz Zoom doesn't run and move fast right?

Time based or not, the type of power he has doesn't remove the
fact that he fits the description of a speedster almost perfectly. :-/

FAIL.
His speed comes naturally since he's not in the right time stream as all the speedsters are.
It has something more to do with time manipulation rather than hasty movement, imo.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
His speed comes naturally since he's not in the right time stream as all the speedsters are.
It has something more to do with time manipulation rather than hasty movement, imo.

This is like saying that the Juggernaught's power comes from a mystical source rather than muscle strength and thus he is not a brick.

Again, FAIL.

Well he has a point although I see what you are saying as well.

My very first thread to get 100 posts, yay!

Surfer doesn't even have to go to the fist to win: He just tp him in the space.

The end.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
Surfer but it'll be one hell of a fight.. It won't for Flash to win he would have to K.O surfer rather quickly before he can do anything. While on the other hand surfer can one shot Flash when he connects

Either way it's not a hell of a fight. Considering Surfer durability and other abilities like shielding and even if we assuming Flash is faster Surfer would be able to react do go on the defensive and that is all he will need to end this fight.

So you can either beileve Flash stomps or Surfer stomps can't have a good fight here.

so I'm going with Surfer ftw in a no PIS , CIS how will flash survive a planet destruction?

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Nah.
Wally keeping up with Zoom is arguably the best combat speed feat by any speedster.
BTW, Silver Surfer would be a statue against Zoom.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
10 feet is the range where most punches are thrown?? O_o Within. Read correctly now.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm not concerned with whether or not he can keep up with Flash's punches in CQC. No, he can't punch as fast as the Flash can. But he can keep up with his closing movements, and track the Flash wherever he goes.

It's not even in character for Surfer to go H2H with someone as fast as the Flash. But being able to follow the Flash while he's running, and track him wherever he runs to, and then blast him with incredible energy projection....ta da. He doesn't need the Flash's H2H speed.

EDIT: Oh, and I just showed on the previous page that he can maneuver at near-light speeds on a planet, inside of rooms and such.

How do you know he can track him? Even if he could SS would be too slow to move by the time Flash gets to him. SS has only proven nanosecond reflexes nothing more. Hell u can't equate reflexes with defending against a punch. Maneuvering at near light speeds isn't enough. That is still a statue to Flash.

Originally posted by kgkg
It won't for Flash to win he would have to K.O surfer rather quickly before he can do anything. While on the other hand surfer can one shot Flash when he connects

Either way it's not a hell of a fight. Considering Surfer durability and other abilities like shielding and even if we assuming Flash is faster Surfer would be able to react do go on the defensive and that is all he will need to end this fight.

So you can either beileve Flash stomps or Surfer stomps can't have a good fight here.

so I'm going with Surfer ftw in a no PIS , CIS how will flash survive a planet destruction?

Flash got the imp..but i don't think that will take out Surfer with shield..and if Surfer blast Flash..i don't even think it will hit Flash..if Flash steal Surfer speed..i think Surfer can amp his speed back with PC..so it'll be a good fight unless Surfer destroy the planet..but that is lame..

Originally posted by h1a8
How do you know he can track him? Even if he could SS would be too slow to move by the time Flash gets to him. SS has only proven nanosecond reflexes nothing more. Hell u can't equate reflexes with defending against a punch. Maneuvering at near light speeds isn't enough. That is still a statue to Flash.

Sure you can, SS's powers are thougt activated, he can conjure up shields, go intangible, teleport, shrink, open portals, etc. all he needs for that is reaction time.

SS can track a grain of dust across the universe. The scan I posted earlier with him inside a maze tracking electronic signals shows he can maneuver at least at a signifcant fraction of c. He managed to see the IG and make a grab for it while moving at millions of times the speed of light, that's a pretty good reaction. This may all be insufficient to keep up with the flash's absurd maneuverabilty, but SS can cover the battlefield with area attacks that get the flash no matter where he is. If flash reaches SS before he can even react, which I'm a bit skeptical about, then it's a matter of how much damage flash can deal out before SS reacts and how much surfer's durabilty can take. I think he can handle an initial blitz.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Nah.
Wally keeping up with Zoom is arguably the best combat speed feat by any speedster.
He didn't do that under his own power. Not even close.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
BTW, Silver Surfer would be a statue against Zoom.
Just like Wally was. Wally couldn't even see Zoom move he was so quick.

So I don't get at all what you were trying to say there.

Originally posted by 753
Sure you can, SS's powers are thougt activated, he can conjure up shields, go intangible, teleport, shrink, open portals, etc. all he needs for that is reaction time.

SS can track a grain of dust across the universe. The scan I posted earlier with him inside a maze tracking electronic signals shows he can maneuver at least at a signifcant fraction of c. He managed to see the IG and make a grab for it while moving at millions of times the speed of light, that's a pretty good reaction. This may all be insufficient to keep up with the flash's absurd maneuverabilty, but SS can cover the battlefield with area attacks that get the flash no matter where he is. If flash reaches SS before he can even react, which I'm a bit skeptical about, then it's a matter of how much damage flash can deal out before SS reacts and how much surfer's durabilty can take. I think he can handle an initial blitz.

You just can't assume that all his powers are activated at the same time as his thoughts. He could think "Force Field" yet it takes 5 nanoseconds to activate after the thought. You just can't assume that SS is that smart or skilled in battle either. He wouldn't have proper time to think even if he could respond.
IMO, SS has at best nanosecond reflexes and can't manuever to light speed within the first 3m of travel (or 1st nanosecond). That means he will fail to make a significant movement by the time Flash gets to him for the IMP.

Originally posted by h1a8
You just can't assume that all his powers are activated at the same time as his thoughts. He could think "Force Field" yet it takes 5 nanoseconds to activate after the thought. You just can't assume that SS is that smart or skilled in battle either. He wouldn't have proper time to think even if he could respond.
IMO, SS has at best nanosecond reflexes and can't manuever to light speed within the first 3m of travel (or 1st nanosecond). That means he will fail to make a significant movement by the time Flash gets to him for the IMP.

Why cant I assume that? It's the general portrayal of TK, energy projection, force fields, phasing, etc. there is no reason to assume otherwise, nowhere has it ever been stated or shown that his powers have a legging to it. He even managed to break out of chains with body movement in under a nanosecond before.

CIS and CIP are off for this fight, so SS should to get himself out of harm's way when he sees some dude blitzing ftl towards him.

Originally posted by h1a8
You just can't assume that all his powers are activated at the same time as his thoughts. He could think "Force Field" yet it takes 5 nanoseconds to activate after the thought. You just can't assume that SS is that smart or skilled in battle either. He wouldn't have proper time to think even if he could respond.
IMO, SS has at best nanosecond reflexes and can't manuever to light speed within the first 3m of travel (or 1st nanosecond). That means he will fail to make a significant movement by the time Flash gets to him for the IMP. So why can't we assume Surfer can do these things when he has shown the ability to do these things.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So why can't we assume Surfer can do these things when he has shown the ability to do these things.

Shown to do what? I didn't say Surfer couldn't do anything. I said it is an assumption to how and when he can do them. And why u always argue against me when u say I'm only using power sets yet when another Marvel fan uses them u are silent. Marvel fans stick together through right or wrong.

To be honest, that is the only reason why many here tolerate you. You are a Marvel fan over D.C.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
Flash got the imp..but i don't think that will take out Surfer with shield..and if Surfer blast Flash..i don't even think it will hit Flash..if Flash steal Surfer speed..i think Surfer can amp his speed back with PC..so it'll be a good fight unless Surfer destroy the planet..but that is lame.. I don't see how that's a good fight. The end result will be either Surfer get's K.O without being able to do much , or Flash get one shotted.

because If Surfer can react to an initial flash blitz and survive<which he will> he wins even if Flash was able to dodge most of his attacks eventually Surfer will just trap the entire earth or start blowing shit up.

Originally posted by h1a8
Marvel fans stick together through right or wrong.

Marvel fans are always disagreeing with Quan, what are you talking about?

Originally posted by Mindset
Marvel fans are always disagreeing with Quan, what are you talking about?

h1a8 likes to create false facts. It's what he does... :-/

Quan and h1 is a fight for the ages.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Quan and h1 is a fight for the ages. Quan has found a perfect match.

I dont think there is a marvel conspiracy at play, here. people's inclinations in this site seem pretty random to me.

just came her to bump this thing

Bump

Surfer still.

Flash

Flash's best powers are speed Steals and Imp punches. And his insane ability to hit before even the fastest heroes can do a thing about it. Surfer's best powers are his durability and perceptions. I say Surfer is going to be able to percieve what flash is and can do but wont' be able to react to the first few hundred Imps. Lucky for him, he's tuffer than some imps. He's going to blow up the planet or create other versions of himself or turn all the air into some kind of explosive gas set off by speed force energy. Surfer wins 7 out of then fights with Flash.

SS

what can wally really do to Silver Surfer? SS 10/10

SS.

SS

Originally posted by the ninjak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBnCV-Pb3SU

What songs have been written for the Flash.
Even Flash Gordon got an awesome Queen song.
The Surfer wins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odU1bHaYNDQ

SS

SS

SS...flash will have no chance...wont even get close to surfer

He doesn't need to get close or make contact to use the SF.

bump

Flash would win. He will speed blitz Surfer. Flash is the fastest being in the universe. Unless Surfer is in space in the beginning of this battle where Flash can't get to him, Surfer will get speed blitzed.

SS

The Flash family has been getting a whole lot of respect, some would say delluded wankage, on the board lately. With claims that Flash can down Odin before he can reacts through a speedsteal or an IMP blitz and that Zoom can defeat Galactus being tossed arround, does the shiny bald man stand a chance in hell against the might of the Flash or does speed kill him?

Some people don't know the difference between travel and combat speed.

Iv'e never seen SS have more then 1 outlier feat of firing off multiple blasts or doing actions in the span of a second like the Flash is capable of doing casually. Now if this isn't an outlier your comparing SS's best combat speed feat to something the Flash can do casually? LOL

So yeah this whole argument that Surfer is fast as Wally is essentially just wankage. Someone seriously said Surfer searching the earth before DS could realize it made him faster then the Flash..........shame
I mean its even made pretty apparent that hes not as fast as he is in space while on earth whereas the Flash can maintain his level of speed anywhere


Also Wally can survive in a black hole by vibrating his molecules. That won't be the best tactic for SS to win this.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Surfer is faster than Flash. Surfer is more versatile. Surfer is more powerful. Surfer is a herald to Galactus. Flash loses.

SS

Originally posted by SasuOna
Some people don't know the difference between travel and combat speed.

Iv'e never seen SS have more then 1 outlier feat of firing off multiple blasts or doing actions in the span of a second like the Flash is capable of doing casually. Now if this isn't an outlier your comparing SS's best combat speed feat to something the Flash can do casually? LOL

So yeah this whole argument that Surfer is fast as Wally is essentially just wankage. Someone seriously said Surfer searching the earth before DS could realize it made him faster then the Flash..........shame
I mean its even made pretty apparent that hes not as fast as he is in space while on earth whereas the Flash can maintain his level of speed anywhere


Also Wally can survive in a black hole by vibrating his molecules. That won't be the best tactic for SS to win this.

Flash is pretty uber. And when did he survive a black hole? I say Wally.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Surfer is faster than Flash. Surfer is more versatile. Surfer is more powerful. Surfer is a herald to Galactus. Flash loses. Surfer is faster than Flash?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Surfer is faster than Flash? in terms of body movement and agility, no. but in terms of displacement speed, his feats contend with flash's.

Drops the multiverse on him.

Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by 753
in terms of body movement and agility, no. but in terms of displacement speed, his feats contend with flash's. Travel speed is a bit more comparable I agree there.

CIS off flash wins this easily. His instant speed over Surfer's instant speed is enough to make Surfer to appear as a statue.
If not, then CIS off flash just steals his speed to make him a statue.