Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who wins ?

Link stomps.

Vader wins. Link may be stronger but he still needs to breathe.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Vader wins. Link may be stronger but he still needs to breathe. ...

Uh...

What?

Vader chokes people over skype calls. He doesn't even need to be close to link to put him down.

Disney canon Jedi are kind of underpowered. Vader's also slower, he most likely loses

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Link stomps. Based on ?

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Disney canon Jedi are kind of underpowered. Vader's also slower, he most likely loses So you believe he can't hurt link ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you believe he can't hurt link ?

Well his lightsaber is the only way I can think of, but it isn't cutting through the Master Sword and Mirror shield, and Vader's massively physically outclassed so.... yeah

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Well his lightsaber is the only way I can think of, but it isn't cutting through the Master Sword and Mirror shield, and Vader's massively physically outclassed so.... yeah

He is a superior swordsman and has tk which can knock link off balance or push him.

Link isn't that strong either.

Do you have any reason to believe he's a better swordsman (however you'd define that is anyone's guess, considering how subjective as **** such a thing sounds)?

Because force pushing some humans is the same thing as someone who's a 200 tonner I believe, good one (not like Jedi in Disney canon have that many good feats worth of note in the way of telekinesis)

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Do you have any reason to believe he's a better swordsman (however you'd define that is anyone's guess, considering how subjective as **** such a thing sounds)?

Because force pushing some humans is the same thing as someone who's a 200 tonner I believe, good one (not like Jedi in Disney canon have that many good feats worth of note in the way of telekinesis) Hus skills and reactions are superior to Links.


A goat can knock him down if he isn't prepared. Be serious. If someone isn't actively resisting with their strength they aren't resisting, noob. Muscles have to contract, idiot.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Hus skills and reactions are superior to Links.

Because skill totally isn't a subjective field as well. Do you have any actual reaction feats for Vader



Low end showings don't count as evidence



SO you can't prove he can move a 200+ tonner with his relatively pithy TK? Mkay

Why is there always so much name calling?

Darth vader has lifted an at-at with the force, so either chocking or messing with link sgouldn't be a problem. While I won't say who is more skilled, the fact is the only thing link has that can stand up to a lightsaber is the master sword. All of his other weapons would probavly just melt or catch fire.

Ad hominem is a prominent part of quanchi's debating style

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Because skill totally isn't a subjective field as well. Do you have any actual reaction feats for Vader



Low end showings don't count as evidence



SO you can't prove he can move a 200+ tonner with his relatively pithy TK? Mkay The Ezra, Kanan fight.

Yes, all showings count. Quit avoiding facts.

A goat can move link. Vader's tk has lifted multi ton objects. Link has to contract his muscles and you need to prove he can lift 200 tons, dope.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Ad hominem is a prominent part of quanchi's debating style Concession accepted.

Quan does have a point about the goat. Even if link is a 200tonner, he is too ligjt to have enough leverage in a lot of situations. Unless he actually squats down and holds the qround there is nothing stopping vader from tossing him around like a ragdoll.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Ezra, Kanan fight.

Can you provide any notable reaction feats, or why this is significant (pretty sure Ezra and Kanan are low tier schmucks anyways), or is this just your "OMG LOLOLOLOL XDXDXDXDXD" style of "debating" at work



You really wanna do the whole nitpicking low end showings when it comes to Star Wars of all things, really?



I believe Scream or someone calc'd Link's Goron Toss at 200 tons or something

Multi-ton TK? So, roughly on par with Link's strength without any gear? Okay

Vader has deflected multiple blaster shots with his lightsaber and even caught a few with his hands. He also almost singlehandidly slaughtered every jedi in the jedi temple, so he's obviously fast enough to handle multiple jedi at once. I'd ay he's reaction time is pretty good.

But what gives him the win his range. He'll never cross blades with link because he can easily kill him from a distance.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Quan does have a point about the goat. Even if link is a 200tonner, he is too ligjt to have enough leverage in a lot of situations. Unless he actually squats down and holds the qround there is nothing stopping vader from tossing him around like a ragdoll.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Can you provide any notable reaction feats, or why this is significant (pretty sure Ezra and Kanan are low tier schmucks anyways), or is this just your "OMG LOLOLOLOL XDXDXDXDXD" style of "debating" at work



You really wanna do the whole nitpicking low end showings when it comes to Star Wars of all things, really?



I believe Scream or someone calc'd Link's Goron Toss at 200 tons or something

Multi-ton TK? So, roughly on par with Link's strength without any gear? Okay We see how skilled he is when he is up against them. I for one think Kanan is better with a saber than Link.

Facts are facts.

So you can't prove it. Concession accepted.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see how skilled he is when he is up against them.

Can you quantify any of it, or just "zomg dey luked rly kool!!!111!!!"



Argument from belief



Low end showings are not evidence according to any debater with a shred of integrity

Star Wars has a lot of low end showings, or do they not count when they don't suit you?



He tossed a Goron which was 200 tons, which is beyond Vader's TK feats.

"multi ton" nothing

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Can you quantify any of it, or just "zomg dey luked rly kool!!!111!!!"



Argument from belief



Low end showings are not evidence according to any debater with a shred of integrity

Star Wars has a lot of low end showings, or do they not count when they don't suit you?



He tossed a Goron which was 200 tons, which is beyond Vader's TK feats.

"multi ton" nothing

Only one point to counter. If its a low end showing, and its canon, then it most certainly gets to be allowed as evidence, unless the character was underpowered in some way.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Can you quantify any of it, or just "zomg dey luked rly kool!!!111!!!"



Argument from belief



Low end showings are not evidence according to any debater with a shred of integrity

Star Wars has a lot of low end showings, or do they not count when they don't suit you?



He tossed a Goron which was 200 tons, which is beyond Vader's TK feats.

"multi ton" nothing We see the manner in which he reacts or counters is beyond Link at any point in TP. Pretty simple, kiddo.

Based on what he's done with his saber and who he's been up against its supported by common sense.

All facts are evidence. Anyone saying that doesn't count or this doesn't count is being biased and ignoring what they don't like. You're a fanboy.

He had the boots on. Prove they weigh over 200 tons. The objects Vader has tk'd is far greater than this anyways. That's what's so hilarious about this, fanboy.

Since when has brute strength countered TK?

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see the manner in which he reacts or counters is beyond Link at any point in TP. Pretty simple, kiddo.

Can you quantify it, or is it just better because "Dey luked rly kool"

Get the **** out with your unquantified horsehit "arguments"



Being.....



Argument from belief



Coming from the guy who only ever cites low end showings for his side



Red herring



Calc'd at 200 tons. Calcs>you



Quantify it or GTFO



It's an ability to apply force with your mind, simple

And force can be overwhelmed with greater force, if it wasn't the case telekinetics could lift any object regardless of it's size and mass and accelerate them to any speed they like instantly with no effort, but they don't so that's that idea out the window

Can you flex your windpipe?

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Can you quantify it, or is it just better because "Dey luked rly kool"

Get the **** out with your unquantified horsehit "arguments"



Being.....



Argument from belief



Coming from the guy who only ever cites low end showings for his side



Red herring



Calc'd at 200 tons. Calcs>you



Quantify it or GTFO



It's an ability to apply force with your mind, simple

And force can be overwhelmed with greater force, if it wasn't the case telekinetics could lift any object regardless of it's size and mass and accelerate them to any speed they like instantly with no effort, but they don't so that's that idea out the window Calcs are less then Garbage, honestly.

You said Wind in FF7 moved at Mach 100, but it isn't possible for wind to move that fast.

Not getting involved in your personal little debate with Quan, but you're making rookie mistakes when it comes to debating that are easy to pick at.

Calcs are debunked all the time, we base stuff on what we see, and not what we hear from other people

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Can you quantify it, or is it just better because "Dey luked rly kool"

Get the **** out with your unquantified horsehit "arguments"



Being.....



Argument from belief



Coming from the guy who only ever cites low end showings for his side



Red herring



Calc'd at 200 tons. Calcs>you



Quantify it or GTFO



It's an ability to apply force with your mind, simple

And force can be overwhelmed with greater force, if it wasn't the case telekinetics could lift any object regardless of it's size and mass and accelerate them to any speed they like instantly with no effort, but they don't so that's that idea out the window Watch the fight. What do you mean quantify it ? If I see Vader use superb skill against these two guys and a child beat two other kids in a laughable fight I can determine Vader is more skilled based off the eye test.

Against Luke, Ezra, Kanan, etc.

Logic isn't common since you apparently don't have it, kid.

Using the word low shows bias. There are only facts, kid.

No, since the game makes it clear without the boots he doesn't have the weight to resist the gorons.

Prove it. Quit citing other people's random guess. Rookie mistake.

You didn't quantify anything you said what someone else said as proof.

Vader wins, easily.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Watch the fight. What do you mean quantify it ? If I see Vader use superb skill against these two guys and a child beat two other kids in a laughable fight I can determine Vader is more skilled based off the eye test.

And this is why nobody likes you, all you do is just go "hurr hey gaise dis r good show me somethink bettar". When someone actually does you just go "nar sorry dat's not good enough". Quantify this shit legitimately or get the hell out



Can you tell me why this is impressive at all?



You are in no position to act condescending



Yeah and Superman being knocked out by a fence post is a legit showing. You're a joke



Weight, not strength. Physics 101



>calcs that put him at that level
>just random guesses
>essentially pulls the "I don't like it so it's wrong argument"

An eloquent counterargument



Genetic fallacy, and providing actual numbers and why beating *insert x character here* is impressive>"Lawl I tink I saw'd him fite low tier schmucks liek Ezra and Kanan and it loked rly kool!!!!111!!!"



With his 2 km/y speed and low level telekinesis rite?

Originally posted by StealthRanger
And this is why nobody likes you, all you do is just go "hurr hey gaise dis r good show me somethink bettar". When someone actually does you just go "nar sorry dat's not good enough". Quantify this shit legitimately or get the hell out



Can you tell me why this is impressive at all?



You are in no position to act condescending



Yeah and Superman being knocked out by a fence post is a legit showing. You're a joke



Weight, not strength. Physics 101



>calcs that put him at that level
>just random guesses
>essentially pulls the "I don't like it so it's wrong argument"

An eloquent counterargument



Genetic fallacy, and providing actual numbers and why beating *insert x character here* is impressive>"Lawl I tink I saw'd him fite low tier schmucks liek Ezra and Kanan and it loked rly kool!!!!111!!!"



With his 2 km/y speed and low level telekinesis rite? We see the skill Vader shows in his fights which is superior to the skill Link shows in his fights. He didn't have years of experience either which is a fact. Vader did.

Watch the fight and see for yourself, noob.

You are a joke.

Facts are facts. You don't get to pretend facts don't exist simply because you're a fanboy.

Without the weight Link can't do anything to a goron.

Cite the specs.

Vader has greater feats, more experience, etc.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see the skill Vader shows in his fights which is superior to the skill Link shows in his fights.

Do you have any reason to believe that, considering "skill" isn't overtly definitive a term



Only feats matter, who gives a shit about "years of experience", there are so many characters in fiction without "years of experience" who could utterly wreck Vader



>asserts that Vader has far better reaction speed
>demands me to do my homework for him

vs debating 101



Is 'no u' really the best you can come up with /depressed



Boots simply anchor him to the ground, and doesn't change the fact that he lifted and tossed it, which outclasses any strength or raw power feat from any Disney SW character



Throwing a 200 ton Goron



Some TK that can lift a few tons at best and some low superhuman speed. Experience don't mean shit, only feats matter

Originally posted by StealthRanger
And this is why nobody likes you, all you do is just go "hurr hey gaise dis r good show me somethink bettar". When someone actually does you just go "nar sorry dat's not good enough". Quantify this shit legitimately or get the hell out



Can you tell me why this is impressive at all?



You are in no position to act condescending



Yeah and Superman being knocked out by a fence post is a legit showing. You're a joke



Weight, not strength. Physics 101



>calcs that put him at that level
>just random guesses
>essentially pulls the "I don't like it so it's wrong argument"

An eloquent counterargument



Genetic fallacy, and providing actual numbers and why beating *insert x character here* is impressive>"Lawl I tink I saw'd him fite low tier schmucks liek Ezra and Kanan and it loked rly kool!!!!111!!!"



With his 2 km/y speed and low level telekinesis rite?

Dude, its not that calc's are always off.

Its just that, usually the ones you bring to the table ARE off.

200 Tons is a LOTTTTTT.

By comparison, a minivan weighs about 1 Ton.

What Goron is there that is 200 Tons???

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Vader has deflected multiple blaster shots with his lightsaber and even caught a few with his hands. He also almost singlehandidly slaughtered every jedi in the jedi temple, so he's obviously fast enough to handle multiple jedi at once. I'd ay he's reaction time is pretty good.

But what gives him the win his range. He'll never cross blades with link because he can easily kill him from a distance.

I think this is what quan is getting at. He has taken out multiple skilled opponents at once si vader's skill is at least on par with link.

So much negativity...

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Do you have any reason to believe that, considering "skill" isn't overtly definitive a term



Only feats matter, who gives a shit about "years of experience", there are so many characters in fiction without "years of experience" who could utterly wreck Vader



>asserts that Vader has far better reaction speed
>demands me to do my homework for him

vs debating 101



Is 'no u' really the best you can come up with /depressed



Boots simply anchor him to the ground, and doesn't change the fact that he lifted and tossed it, which outclasses any strength or raw power feat from any Disney SW character



Throwing a 200 ton Goron



Some TK that can lift a few tons at best and some low superhuman speed. Experience don't mean shit, only feats matter Skill always matters.

I just gave you feats. Experience does matter. All facts matter.

Deflecting blaster fire. Boom.

He needs the added weight and can never do so without the boots. Without the boots he isn't strong enough with his own body weight to resist.

You have not proven he weighs 200 tons. It is laughable.

All variables matter, fanboy. He needs those boots.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
...

Uh...

What?

Never heard of a Force Grip/Choke?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Never heard of a Force Grip/Choke?

That didn't come to mind at the time, I figured what he meant was that Vader was gonna throw him into space.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Skill always matters.

Not when you're outclassed by a huge margain physically



You just told me he beat someone, can you say why this is impressive (as in, feats or GTFO)



Only feats matter. Yusuke Urameshi doesn't have "years of experience", and he'd casually trash the Disney SW cast single handedly

Senator Armstrong doesn't have "years of experience" in physical combat, yet he'd speedblitz and one punch Vader to scrap metal



Precognition



Body weight is the sole reason he needs the boots, it makes no difference to physical strength. Since by real life, things like say, Raiden stopping Outer Heaven would be impractical due to the mass disparity



Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'll math it myself, you were using some bad numbers somewhere, sir.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2059jxy.jpg
6 ft = 80 pixels

The goron = 228. THEREFORE; 228/80 = 2.85
2.85x6 = 17.1 Ft in diameter.

V= pi*r^3*0.75=4007.9816296875 cubic feet.

so, let's get conservative here.

4000x100 lbs = 400 000 lbs = 200 tons.

Just so we're clear, seeing as he stopped it, then threw it, yes, Link is infact stronger.

Given that the Gorons are probably about as heavy as granite, multiply that by 1.6 to get a more accurate weight. =] I forget where I read they were granite thoguh, so I won't use those numbers until I find the quote.

Now then, your move, son



Are you trying to say he doesn't have them here?

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Not when you're outclassed by a huge margain physically



You just told me he beat someone, can you say why this is impressive (as in, feats or GTFO)



Only feats matter. Yusuke Urameshi doesn't have "years of experience", and he'd casually trash the Disney SW cast single handedly

Senator Armstrong doesn't have "years of experience" in physical combat, yet he'd speedblitz and one punch Vader to scrap metal



Precognition



Body weight is the sole reason he needs the boots, it makes no difference to physical strength. Since by real life, things like say, Raiden stopping Outer Heaven would be impractical due to the mass disparity





Now then, your move, son



Are you trying to say he doesn't have them here? You have not proven Link is that much stronger than him at all. Back your claims.

That is a feat. Watch the fight, noob.

He has feats and experience, noob. Everything matters.

Which he has here so thanks for agreeing with me.


Without the body weight he can't do so it is a moot point.

That isn't proof that's just making up numbers.

If he puts the boots on he is a lot slower and less maneuverable. Vader carves him up.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You have not proven Link is that much stronger than him at all. Back your claims.

Except I have, spergchi



See, no, when you cite beating a character, you have to say why this is impressive, like can Ezra and Kanan say, move at Mach 1 and force push boulders so hard they explode. If you can cite feats that'd be legitimate

Jesus, even DBZ fantards of the old days were way better at this then you

And no, it's not the opponents job to get their evidence for them



IOW according to quanchi Vader could beat Armstrong or Yusuke because "herr derr yrs of 3xp3r13n3!!!111!!!!22!!!



Point is, it's not a feat of reflexes, he sees it before it happens acts before the blaster bolt is fired, IOW an advanced form of aimdodging



Aaaand more red herrings that don't change the fact that Link's strength outclasses Vader's TK in power



When people resort to tactics like this you can tell they're desperate. If you're not going to use math, do tell what other arbitrary unit you plan to use to quantify feats? zig zags, squiggles, colors of the rainbow?

No no, do tell me how you think we should quantify this spergchi?



Vader's too slow to get close, and again, he's massively physically outclassed

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Except I have, spergchi



See, no, when you cite beating a character, you have to say why this is impressive, like can Ezra and Kanan say, move at Mach 1 and force push boulders so hard they explode. If you can cite feats that'd be legitimate

Jesus, even DBZ fantards of the old days were way better at this then you

And no, it's not the opponents job to get their evidence for them



IOW according to quanchi Vader could beat Armstrong or Yusuke because "herr derr yrs of 3xp3r13n3!!!111!!!!22!!!



Point is, it's not a feat of reflexes, he sees it before it happens acts before the blaster bolt is fired, IOW an advanced form of aimdodging



Aaaand more red herrings that don't change the fact that Link's strength outclasses Vader's TK in power



When people resort to tactics like this you can tell they're desperate. If you're not going to use math, do tell what other arbitrary unit you plan to use to quantify feats? zig zags, squiggles, colors of the rainbow?

No no, do tell me how you think we should quantify this spergchi?



Vader's too slow to get close, and again, he's massively physically outclassed Nope.

Look at the manner in which they move about and we can clearly see it's better than link in his canon fights.

Along with his feats.

His strength doesn't outclass Vader's. Even the mayor beat the gorons with the boots. The boots were cheating.

You didn't prove it.

Vader is faster than link with the boots. It slows him way down. He also has the force powers and is a lot more skilled than Link.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nope.

Yep



IOW you have no real quantifiable feats or any reason for why it's impressive at all

See, if you're going to claim he beat a character, you actually have to say why they're impressive, until then, beating Ezra and Kanan means dick, considering they're fairly low tier on the feats chart



Argument from belief



Again, being.....



I'm sorry, can Vader lift hundreds of tons? Must have missed the movie/Rebels episode where he did



Good for him, not the same thing as tossing them handily, nor were most Gorons as big as the huge one Link tossed. Try again, dipshit



So is your mother



Do you have any counterarguments? Or are you just gonna stick your head in the sand?



Only speed feat I can recall from force users was the running down a hallway feat in TPM, which certainly not above Ganon dodging arrows (by which I mean, jumped over them after they were fired), unless you have a better one

Not factoring in the fact that Vader is notably very slow amongst force users anyways

Originally posted by Jmanghan
That didn't come to mind at the time, I figured what he meant was that Vader was gonna throw him into space.

I see.

I'd recommend re-watching the SW movies, then - because Force Grip was Vader's signature move. His son used it in RotJ, too. And Dooku in RotS.

Maul did in comics, but they may no longer be canon.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I see.

I'd recommend re-watching the SW movies, then - because Force Grip was Vader's signature move. His son used it in RotJ, too. And Dooku in RotS.

Maul did in comics, but they may no longer be canon.

aV2DLkDPwM8

Telechoke is a cheap way to win a fight. But Lord Vader would do it. I think he also broke that Admiral's neck since there is a bone breaking sound effect