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Current Kain, all powers (raziels and his sons included) vs:

Round 1: Kratos, Demitri, Ganondorf.

Round 2: Dante and Bayonetta


He takes all the physical and magical attributes of the characters in Round 1 if he beats them. His opponents are at their current states.

Round 1: Loss. Round 2: Nada.

Kain likely beats Kratos, Demetri from Darkstalkers? he rapes, ganondorf should be able to beat Kain

Dante and Bayonetta reduce Kain to confetti via speedblitz or time manipulation

Any character listed rapes this thread.

I would like to see Demitris actual feats, in all the threads i have seen him in or debated in he either wins because hes a darkstalker or because of a variety of assumed abilities. If Kain gets past round 1, I dont think Round 2 has anything that can beat him.

Not sure about Dimitri but Kain can't handle Kratos, and can't handle Ganondorf so... it's a no go.

November Golf
Negative

BT's masochistic, must be. This thread is so much intentional anti-Kain spite.

He can handle both with ease. Demitri is the only one I am interested in tbh.

He really can't. Kain has no means of harming either one of them, too slow, too weak, powers too featless and gameplay exclusive. Every other person in this thread rapes Kain.

Kain is faster than both physically or through teleportation and can kill either with a soul reaping strike or all 3 of them with blood shower. Their a lower tier than Kain easily, I just put them in the thread because I recently played GoW 3 for Kratos and Ganon has some support but Demitri is my only interest in round 1.

Really wish the trolling rule was enforced around here. You know damn well Kain can't so much as break either of their skin, let alone steal their souls. You know he's slower, and you use gameplay "feats" all damn day while ignoring actual feats from other characters.

Kratos has resisted soul theft by Hades, what's Kain got? Nothing. Ganondorf can react to strikes so much quicker than Kain's it's sad, jump over arrows shot at him, and is too durable for Kain to harm.

Kain's blood shower doesn't work here because he can't get the blood out of them, Ganon can even assume a form that has no blood if he feels like it, but he doesn't need to.

Congrats on spiting Kain.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Really wish the trolling rule was enforced around here. You know damn well Kain can't so much as break either of their skin, let alone steal their souls. You know he's slower, and you use gameplay "feats" all damn day while ignoring actual feats from other characters.

Kratos has resisted soul theft by Hades, what's Kain got? Nothing. Ganondorf can react to strikes so much quicker than Kain's it's sad, jump over arrows shot at him, and is too durable for Kain to harm.

Kain's blood shower doesn't work here because he can't get the blood out of them, Ganon can even assume a form that has no blood if he feels like it, but he doesn't need to.

Congrats on spiting Kain.

Indeed. No, I know damn well that Kain can easily break Ganons skin and does not have to break "skin" to take souls, he only has to strike them. No, I have seen him move faster than both.

Ive actually played it, Hades uses a method of soul taking that is completly different to Kains, Kains cannot be resisted in the same way. No he cant, Ganondorfs never done so.....Kains too fast for him.

Cant get the blood out of them? they have no resistance to the spell, their easy game for it. The act of having your blood spraying throughout your body, trying to get to Kain would kill either of them as well. If its not getting to Kain then all Kain loses is the power to gain strength from them. Their hearts would still burst from the seizure of all their blood going berserk.

Bt, you can't call anything on what Ganondorf can or can't do, you don't even play the series. Ganondorf has some of the best speed feats in Hyrule. All recent encounters with him, he's had periods where he's completely untouchable unless something else distracts him. Reflexes that make lightning look like molasses.

Teamed up with Kratos and Demitri, there really is no opening at all for Kain to take advantage of.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Bt, you can't call anything on what Ganondorf can or can't do, you don't even play the series. Ganondorf has some of the best speed feats in Hyrule. All recent encounters with him, he's had periods where he's completely untouchable unless something else distracts him. Reflexes that make lightning look like molasses.


Can you show this? also nice bias, Screams played 1 game with Kain in thats not even relevant to this version although your wrong in your statement.

Curious, because I recall a cutscene whereign Ganondorf crosses a room before anyone inside it even knows he's moved, and the reaver does need to harm them to take souls, this was proven by BloodRain, IIRC. They also need to be weakened.

You claim Kain's faster, but you have no evidence. GJ.

Even if it couldn't be resisted in the same way, the reaver only kills weakened opponents and needs to harm it's target. Can't do.


They're too durable, the blood wouldn't even leave their viens, their hearts pump blood harder than Kain can try to steal it, ect, there's simply no way this could work. It's like trying to reverse the flow of Niagra Falls with a bucket, and not even being able to get at the water.

Demitri destroys Kain by himself. 'Seriously doubt Kain can beat the version of Pyron Demitri fought and Demitri did it a 80% of his actual power.

Demitri was hit wit an attack so hard he got knocked into another dimension. The attack is not designed to remove people from dimensional plains but it was so powerful that it did. Not to mention he has absorbed Pyron already. Kain stands no chance.

Midnight Bliss and Midnight Pleasure FTW.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Curious, because I recall a cutscene whereign Ganondorf crosses a room before anyone inside it even knows he's moved, and the reaver does need to harm them to take souls, this was proven by BloodRain, IIRC. They also need to be weakened.

You claim Kain's faster, but you have no evidence. GJ.

Even if it couldn't be resisted in the same way, the reaver only kills weakened opponents and needs to harm it's target. Can't do.


They're too durable, the blood wouldn't even leave their viens, their hearts pump blood harder than Kain can try to steal it, ect, there's simply no way this could work. It's like trying to reverse the flow of Niagra Falls with a bucket, and not even being able to get at the water.

Show me. This was not proven, it was proven by me however and by Kain himself that all he needs to do is strike and it takes souls, the idea of having to pierce them is redundant and is not said anywhere or implied.

No evidence? I have the moebius scene and dimentional teleport in the other thread proving it. What do you have?


False.


Durability has what impact on the spell? Also you cannot prove any of these things, their blood would be easy game and blood would not constrict itself, it would be flowing through their bodies and would kill them instantly. Your assertion is that the spell is affected by durability and that all their internal organs are vastly more durable than humans, prove this.


Originally posted by No End N Site
Demitri destroys Kain by himself. 'Seriously doubt Kain can beat the version of Pyron Demitri fought and Demitri did it a 80% of his actual power.

Demitri was hit wit an attack so hard he got knocked into another dimension. The attack is not designed to remove people from dimensional plains but it was so powerful that it did. Not to mention he has absorbed Pyron already. Kain stands no chance.


Your the one I wanted to argue with about Demitri, you know about him. What are his current feats, what are the specifics of the Pyron fight?

You never proved that at all. You claimed it, it was proven otherwise, you ignored that.
The moebius scene is pathetic, Ganon's scene where he kills the sage is much quicker. Dimensional teleport, hey look, a gameplay ability, guess this means Ganondorf gets to react to sword strikes in less than 0.03 seconds, casually block arrows, and play catch with lightning.

You need to damage a body to get the blood out, it's naturally designed to keep blood in, the spell cannot do so.



QFT.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You never proved that at all. You claimed it, it was proven otherwise, you ignored that.
The moebius scene is pathetic, Ganon's scene where he kills the sage is much quicker. Dimensional teleport, hey look, a gameplay ability, guess this means Ganondorf gets to react to sword strikes in less than 0.03 seconds, casually block arrows, and play catch with lightning.

You need to damage a body to get the blood out, it's naturally designed to keep blood in, the spell cannot do so.


It cant be proven otherwise, I had proven it and nobody had evidence to suggest otherwise.

Oh so he kills Sages who were defenceless, how is that speed exactly? I dont think he even moves as far as Kain in that scene. A gameplay ability is different to a gameplay mechanic, nice try though. Kain would have percieved and reacted to Ganon who would only see Kain as a blur at that point. That point would be his death.


You need to damage a body? where are you getting this from? this is a sorcerous spell were talking about, not a physical attack. You do realise this right?

Actually, all evidence says your wrong, like Kain needing to impale the Hylden Lord, for example?

He moves farther, and before they even realise he's moved he's killed one of them.

Those are all gameplay abilities, sorry boyo. Either accept all gameplay abilities, or none. No favouritism.

Which gives Kain even less chance than before against Ganon who's magic resistance is blatantly off the charts and well above anything that can be found in LoK.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Can you show this? also nice bias, Screams played 1 game with Kain in thats not even relevant to this version although your wrong in your statement.
H_yXb6rLHJg
From 2:25, Ganondorf is literally untouchable. He somersaults over arrows, and blocks any strike from in front, above, and behind.

n5bgobWU8Lg
From about 4:00 onward. Ganondorf dodges arrows again, and blocks or evades every foreseeable attack, only being caught off-guard in very short counter windows after his attacks.

Note also that in both cases, the only reason he's injured at all is due to Link having the empowered, glowing Master Sword.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually, all evidence says your wrong, like Kain needing to impale the Hylden Lord, for example?

He moves farther, and before they even realise he's moved he's killed one of them.

Those are all gameplay abilities, sorry boyo. Either accept all gameplay abilities, or none. No favouritism.

Which gives Kain even less chance than before against Ganon who's magic resistance is blatantly off the charts and well above anything that can be found in LoK.

Its the first time we see him canonically striking the Hylden lord.

How do you know they did not realise? and no your wrong, I just watched the scene and the block hes chained to is perhaps a meter, if that away from the first sage. Sages who do nothing. The same scene shows Ganon is a slow thinker or indecisive in combat because he stands there for what looks like ages while they power up some mirror. Hes a poor fighter.

Mechanics are not the same as abilities, "boyo".


Off the charts? based on what exactly? and 3 sorcerors in LoK replicated the trueforce effect on the Golden land in a region passively, Kain was immune to its power so I dont think you have grounds to say anything of the sort. Kain has powerful magic which he could make stronger via regulation anyway and Ganon has no resistance against it. Hes never faced powers like it before so hes dead as is Kratos and possibly Demitri if Kain uses it.


Originally posted by General Kaliero
H_yXb6rLHJg
From 2:25, Ganondorf is literally untouchable. He somersaults over arrows, and blocks any strike from in front, above, and behind.

n5bgobWU8Lg
From about 4:00 onward. Ganondorf dodges arrows again, and blocks or evades every foreseeable attack, only being caught off-guard in very short counter windows after his attacks.

Note also that in both cases, the only reason he's injured at all is due to Link having the empowered, glowing Master Sword.


Ok this is more like it, some evidence. The only problem is that their both gameplay, gameplay mechanics that is. Mechanics that are controlled by balance, like the number of strikes either of them can take. If this was a cutscene or something then it may have been useful.

Also dodging a character you can see is not necesserily reacting to the actual attack, it could be reacting to subtle movements, the aim of their weapon or predicting their attack.

Originally posted by Burning thought


Your the one I wanted to argue with about Demitri, you know about him. What are his current feats, what are the specifics of the Pyron fight?

We have been over this before, tho.

1. He can teleport

2. Travel through dimensions at will.

3. Fast enough to appear completely invisible for short periods.

4. At only 80% of his power he can surround his entire castle in an energy field that blocks out sun.

5. His form from 50 years ago can stand in front of Belial who has an energy field of one million degrees Celsius

6. He can survive time space destroyin' attacks.

7. He can drain life force from others

8. Near instant regeneration.

9. He absorbed Pyron, thus increasin' his power to untold levels beyond any of the forms he has feats for.

10. He can transform his foes into defenseless dames.

Nothin' has changed. I still think he stomps Kain wit utter ease.

Originally posted by No End N Site
We have been over this before, tho.

1. He can teleport

2. Travel through dimensions at will.

3. Fast enough to appear completely invisible for short periods.

4. At only 80% of his power he can surround his entire castle in an energy field that blocks out sun.

5. His form from 50 years ago can stand in front of Belial who has an energy field of one million degrees Celsius

6. He can survive time space destroyin' attacks.

7. He can drain life force from others

8. Near instant regeneration.

9. He absorbed Pyron, thus increasin' his power to untold levels beyond any of the forms he has feats for.

10. He can transform his foes into defenseless dames.


We have but not using canon sources, like a video or something. The last time you posted that list, I realised Kain has most of those powers and more besides. Although I would like to see evidence of 3. 6. was before he was weakened and its hard to gauge how this makes him durable, this could be magic resistance, a special kind of resistance etc. Time/space afaik does not have a physical durability.

9. Is this proven? the darkstalkers wiki also made by fans says something like that its not actually conclusive that Demitri actually gains vast amounts of power from absorbing Pyron, only that it "did" strengthen him. The fact he beat Pyron kinda makes it null.

1. This is indeed spite.
2. The Reaver needs to pierce to reap the soul, also on a weak enemy.
3. Ganon's speed scene (TP) was not that fast, above human maybe but not by far.
4. Blood shower iirc like his TK targets one opponent at a time. His shower takes some time to kill a mook, all the while the other two will be stupid not to take advantage of this opening.

How come some gameplay feats are glomped on and others are brushed aside?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ok this is more like it, some evidence. The only problem is that their both gameplay, gameplay mechanics that is. Mechanics that are controlled by balance, like the number of strikes either of them can take. If this was a cutscene or something then it may have been useful.

Also dodging a character you can see is not necesserily reacting to the actual attack, it could be reacting to subtle movements, the aim of their weapon or predicting their attack.
It's not mechanics, Ganondorf can be struck in other stages of fights. It is at this point where he gets serious. In WW, this is even signified with a cutscene showing Ganondorf ramping up his efforts, and Zelda acknowledging that the only way to harm him is through an indirect attack.

Originally posted by BloodRain
1. This is indeed spite.
2. The Reaver needs to pierce to reap the soul, also on a weak enemy.
3. Ganon's speed scene (TP) was nott that fast, above human maybe but not by far.
4. Blood shower iirc like his TK targets one opponent at a time. His shower takes some time to kill a mook, all the while the other two will be stupid not to take advantage of this opening.

How come some gameplay feats are glomped on and others are brushed aside?


2. Wheres your evidence for this? gameplay mechanics?
4. False, thats blood gout, Blood shower affects all enemies in the area, Kain can only drink 4 people at the same time however, the rest just bleed to death.

Gameplay feats are not the same as gameplay mechanics, the base use of a player characters ability is often canon to what the ability actually does.

Blocking arrows and sword strikes is just as much an ability Ganon demonstrates as Kain's dimensional teleport, none or both. No bias.

Totally resisting the power of the magic arrows, barring the light arrows which at best stun him, being struck with his own magic and shrugging it off, having the master sword stuffed into his face and not dying, ect.

As for Ganon's crossing the room being only a "meter". The sword in his chest alone is longer than a meter. Let's have a look at some screenshots.

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/ShinTwist_ScreamPaste/morethanameter.jpg

HM! That's in less than 0.2, going by the Sage's utter failure to so much as move.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
It's not mechanics, Ganondorf can be struck in other stages of fights. It is at this point where he gets serious. In WW, this is even signified with a cutscene showing Ganondorf ramping up his efforts, and Zelda acknowledging that the only way to harm him is through an indirect attack.

That first sentence outlines that it is a gameplay mechanic, its not canon if your showing me him blocking attacks that the player is using against him is it. Because player actions are irrelevant in the actual gameplay in a fight. Thats how the developers chose that fight to go and the balance and gameplay mechanics come into effects in all gameplay battles. Him being struck at times of weakness, but not when hes actually blocking blows is a mechanic as a game level has "stages" against a boss.

Kinda like how in GoW 3 if youve played it in the final fight Has Kratos beating up Zues, slashing him and all the rest of it with his BoE when the Blade of Olmypus is his canon killing weapon of any use.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Blocking arrows and sword strikes is just as much an ability Ganon demonstrates as Kain's dimensional teleport, none or both. No bias.

Totally resisting the power of the magic arrows, barring the light arrows which at best stun him, being struck with his own magic and shrugging it off, having the master sword stuffed into his face and not dying, ect.

As for Ganon's crossing the room being only a "meter". The sword in his chest alone is longer than a meter. Let's have a look at some screenshots.

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo141/ShinTwist_ScreamPaste/morethanameter.jpg

HM! That's in less than 0.2, going by the Sage's utter failure to so much as move.

Thats not true at all, a boss a player fights like Ganon is under gameplay balance. Hence why Ganon is not moving as quickly as you see him go in the cutscene against the sages, because a player just cannot play against such speeds. Its all mechanics. It doesnt matter what technique you use, I bet theres only one combination that actually works if any until hes weakened and at a stage the gameplay mechanics allow him to be harmed.

none of that is impressive magic resistance at all, he was turned to stone by the MS and was sliced by it anyway. Magic arrows, light arrows and his own magic are not impressive at all, infact less impressive.

As I said, a meter, perhaps a little more away. kains been calculated consistently at about 0.16-0.18 by several people, 0.2 was the max for Kain. Based on the slowest he can be, a lunge by either, kain is much quicker. Kain would react sooner as well, Ganon will not even percieve kain until 0.5, Kain can do this all at 0.2.

Difference is, this is in a form that has few durability feats, if any so its not like he can take anything from Kain. kain can shrug off Ganons attacks, although Kratos could indeed splatter Kain.

Originally posted by Burning thought
That first sentence outlines that it is a gameplay mechanic, its not canon if your showing me him blocking attacks that the player is using against him is it. Because player actions are irrelevant in the actual gameplay in a fight. Thats how the developers chose that fight to go and the balance and gameplay mechanics come into effects in all gameplay battles. Him being struck at times of weakness, but not when hes actually blocking blows is a mechanic as a game level has "stages" against a boss.

Kinda like how in GoW 3 if youve played it in the final fight Has Kratos beating up Zues, slashing him and all the rest of it with his BoE when the Blade of Olmypus is his canon killing weapon of any use.
That's utterly ridiculous.

Some games go that route of showing only the base weapons or costumes in cutscenes, purely because with pre-rendered cutscenes you can't predict what the player will have equipped, and the only sensible equipment to render is the base.

Not so with Zelda. Even if you try to use other weapons, Ganondorf will block them all, or simply be unaffected. It has also been established in series canon that only the Master Sword can stop Ganondorf.

Ignoring character actions in-game is patently absurd. Either you debate games, or you debate cutscenes. This is the games vs. forum.

Originally posted by Burning thought
2. Wheres your evidence for this? gameplay mechanics?
4. False, thats blood gout, Blood shower affects all enemies in the area, Kain can only drink 4 people at the same time however, the rest just bleed to death.

2. Didn't we go through this?
4. I see, well, if its range is anything alike it will be difficult to have them in the same small area at the same time.

Oh and Ganon move roughly 5/6ish meters in the scene.

Not gonna lie, this entire section made me laugh pretty hard.

1. All of them are more impressive and on a larger destructive scale than LoK magic.
2. Perhaps a little more? That's multiple meters in less than human reaction time allows for, and Ganon's demonstrated time and time again his perception is above human levels, nice try.

Kain cannot do squat in 0.2, you're using dimensional teleport again, which is a non-feat.

3. Kain is too weak to harm Ganon, Ganon's plenty strong enough to destroy Kain.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Not gonna lie, this entire section made me laugh pretty hard.

1. All of them are more impressive and on a larger destructive scale than LoK magic.
2. Perhaps a little more? That's multiple meters in less than human reaction time allows for, and Ganon's demonstrated time and time again his perception is above human levels, nice try.

Kain cannot do squat in 0.2, you're using dimensional teleport again, which is a non-feat.

3. Kain is too weak to harm Ganon, Ganon's plenty strong enough to destroy Kain.

Whats that supposed to be? some passive ad hominem or something? its overused and boring.

1. No their not, not at all. infact most of them are featless. And as I said, LoK magic can recreate an expanding version of Ganons trueforce wish.

2. lol, your using that as reaction time now? thats just movement speed and its slower than Kain. And hes not demonstrated anything, in that same vid hes demonstrated hes slow and indecisive in combat and decides not to do anything in the seconds the sages hit him with the sealing mirror.

Yes he can, several people have gauged Kain moving a few meters in under 0.2 as well. Dimentional teleport only secures the fact kains got reaction time on the same level as his speed, unlike most characters.

3. False.

Originally posted by BloodRain
2. Didn't we go through this?
4. I see, well, if its range is anything alike it will be difficult to have them in the same small area at the same time.

Oh and Ganon move roughly 5/6ish meters in the scene.


2. Probably, but obviously its not resolved.

4. If he drains any one of them hes gaining their physical stats. If he gets Kratos who is arguably the easiest then hes more or less even more immune to harm than usual and gains titan beating strength. Considering Kains their only target their likely going to be close to him.

That screenshot is redundant because Ganon stretches the chains to their limit as he breaks them. That shot shows him not struggling.


Originally posted by General Kaliero
That's utterly ridiculous.

Some games go that route of showing only the base weapons or costumes in cutscenes, purely because with pre-rendered cutscenes you can't predict what the player will have equipped, and the only sensible equipment to render is the base.

Not so with Zelda. Even if you try to use other weapons, Ganondorf will block them all, or simply be unaffected. It has also been established in series canon that only the Master Sword can stop Ganondorf.

Ignoring character actions in-game is patently absurd. Either you debate games, or you debate cutscenes. This is the games vs. forum.

But their not character actions, their player actions. Just because I decide to strike Ganondorf from a certain angle, or with a certain ability does not make it canon or even as a gaugable mechanic. Every boss in gaming (I say this loosly) has a mechanic in how to beat it, God of War, DMC. They all have a series of actions and mechanics and its the same here. Dorf should be far faster in this fight if hes as quick as he was in that cutscene, Kratos should be able to ignore beating on someone and just go straight to ripping their head off with his canon strength, Dante is fast etc etc.

Gameplay mechanics, if its something an actual player does thats scripted then it may make sense.

And yes, the MS is Ganons weakness, other weapons may be ineffective in Hyrule that does not have any connection to his speed though so I am not sure why you brought it up.

They are player actions, through a character. That has nothing to do with whether or not a character can do them, because if the option is there for the player, the character is obviously capable.

By extension, if a reaction to something a player does (and therefore a character can do) remains consistently the same, i.e. dodging arrows and blocking all but the most carefully-timed of strikes, the reactor is obviously capable of the reaction. This is even more apparent when the game intends for the player to perform precisely those actions that trigger those reactions, i.e. attacking with the Master Sword.

Which is a very long-winded way of saying that Ganondorf's blocking and evasion feats in fights are indeed canon, and cannot be ignored for the sake of Kain's safety.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
They are player actions, through a character. That has nothing to do with whether or not a character can do them, because if the option is there for the player, the character is obviously capable.

By extension, if a reaction to something a player does (and therefore a character can do) remains consistently the same, i.e. dodging arrows and blocking all but the most carefully-timed of strikes, the reactor is obviously capable of the reaction. This is even more apparent when the game intends for the player to perform precisely those actions that trigger those reactions, i.e. attacking with the Master Sword.

Which is a very long-winded way of saying that Ganondorf's blocking and evasion feats in fights are indeed canon, and cannot be ignored for the sake of Kain's safety.

That does not excuse the fact their uncanon player actions. Also no, thats not necesserily true, every game shows even normal humans surviviing daft amounts of strikes just because their bosses. Or doing things that would never make sense, what makes Ganon, Zeus, Echidna, the Elder God commit the same foolish tactic over and over again and get beaten by the hero is a gameplay mechanic based on stages in a fight set by gameplay rules.

Also no, their only capable of the reaction in a gameplay mechanic because the game does not want you to beat the boss so easily, its the same with all bosses stated above, they work in stages. According to your logic, Kratos has to slash Zeus over and over and over again to weaken him before he can punch him......no, thats just a mechanic.

Their not "canon", their just scriped gameplay mechanics. The same logic would claim that characters used by players are immortal because they can restore themselves through checkpoints. Also this is nothing to do with Kains safety, what you showed me is Ganon dodging aim and movements, not necesserily arrows and sword strikes. Kain moves and reacts at far greater speeds and uses powers Ganon cannot dodge.

Nah. By this logic dimensional teleport is ascripted gameplay mechanic. You're using mechanic and ability interchangably depending on your own bias. Consistently blocking several sword strikes in a row from Link is not blocking "aim"

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Nah. By this logic dimensional teleport is ascripted gameplay mechanic. You're using mechanic and ability interchangably depending on your own bias. Consistently blocking several sword strikes in a row from Link is not blocking "aim"


no your just claiming thus. A Player character is rarely under the effects of gameplay balance, a PC can be invincible or ridiculous quick (Rage of Spartans, Quicksilver) or destroy armies of enemies with ease. A scriped ability, that the player does not control is not under the effects of gameplay mechanics. Ganons decisions in gameplay are also not canon, because their also based on player actions.

Yes it is, blocking aim is based on predicting an opponents strike nad tbh using gameplay like you are, Links strikes are nearly as predictable as Ganons even for a player. Link is fully in sight and Ganon has all his senses to block Link as he comes at him conciously. He wouldnt have this advantage agains Kain who in 0.2 will kill him before his senses have even kicked in.

2. We all know the general point so.... blah.
4. He's taking physical powers now?

I took in the chain for the distance. Not a reaction feat however.

Dimensional teleport =/= reaction times either, people need to sort out what can be taken gameplay wise.

Actually they always are. Ganon's decision to block isn't canon? haermm

False. Link's strieks are quick enough that whole new ones are coming before any human could even register the first is over, Ganon reacts to them. Kain's too slow to have a chance landing one of his wholly inneffective hits.

Originally posted by BloodRain
2. We all know the general point so.... blah.
4. He's taking physical powers now?

I took in the chain for the distance. Not a reaction feat however.

Dimensional teleport =/= reaction times either, people need to sort out what can be taken gameplay wise.

4. He always has, physical and mental. Not sure about magical tbh.

Its not much of a feat at all, his opponents did nothing and could do nothing even in the 20+ seconds he had struggling free from his chains.

A players gameplays skills in their general use are canon. For example, Kratos' souls of hades summon souls to attack the target, in GoW 3 he can choose what soul he summons. Although we dont see him use it in a cutscene, we know this is the scripted ability for Kratos and that its noit affected by mechanics.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Actually they always are. Ganon's decision to block isn't canon? haermm

False. Link's strieks are quick enough that whole new ones are coming before any human could even register the first is over, Ganon reacts to them. Kain's too slow to have a chance landing one of his wholly inneffective hits.


no their not, the only mechanic a player is under is under is the rules of the game such as health and statistics. But the general use of abilities and the powers behind them are rarely balanced, if they are its generally balanced by cooldowns and other non canon things such as charging. For example Kratos' rage powers, its just him raging yet he has to hit enemies to charge it.


No ofc its not, because the players decision to strike is not canon either.

Nah, I am looking at the same thing as you, Links predictable and him being quick has little to do with it because Ganons sword is large enough just to place in front of himself. Not based on real canon feats and cutscenes.

It's canon that Link wins, it's canon that in order to win, he strikes, and therefore canon that Ganon decides to block.
Link is predictable? Backslashes, helm splitters, mortal draws, ect, all coming at you in less than 0.03 is not predictable, sir.

Also, Ganon's sword is big, but not nearly that big, and Link's not just gonna blindly swign at a sword h'e presented with.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
It's canon that Link wins, it's canon that in order to win, he strikes, and therefore canon that Ganon decides to block.
Link is predictable? Backslashes, helm splitters, mortal draws, ect, all coming at you in less than 0.03 is not predictable, sir.

Also, Ganon's sword is big, but not nearly that big, and Link's not just gonna blindly swign at a sword h'e presented with.

No, its canon that he strikes, not that Ganon blocks. Infact in a real fight a large number of non scripted things could happen, in a real fight assuming Ganon is not stupid he would use more powers than those scripted into the fight, magic for example.

Nah their not that fast, we can see them easy enough. Just like Ganons attacks. From those vids alone that GK showed, Links attacks usually come in the form of basic slashes and jumps.

The gameplay allows both characters to avoid damage just by blocking, even if the sword could technically get under their guard. Theres only like 3/4 animations for Ganon blocking in WW, one where his sword is simply straight down to block Links predictable slashes and some where its above his head for Links even more predictable jumps.

Originally posted by Burning thought
We have but not using canon sources, like a video or something.

Well unfortunately, DS is a mid 90s 2D fighter, it's not heavily story driven. Capcom created books and All About guides for the games but they are all in Japanese. Luckily, Saiki translated the guides. If you don't believe what is said in the guide (even though he makes it very clear that he only used official books) then that's your problem. Email him or register at SRK and Capcom Unity to talk to him, I do.


Originally posted by Burning thought
Although I would like to see evidence of 3.

nwtR4ubllcU

1:33

Originally posted by Burning thought
was before he was weakened and its hard to gauge how this makes him durable, this could be magic resistance, a special kind of resistance etc. Time/space afaik does not have a physical durability.



...He use's an attack called the "Scalephoton" which emits a highly compressed arrow of magic at a high speed at it's victims. This attack would even kill Galnan and Jedah if it were to hit them. He had used a low powered warning shot against Demitri 100 years ago...

...When Belial had won victory over Demitri by ripping Demitri's castle and the gate into human world. But damaging space itself also damaged Belial's body...

I don't get what your sayin'. The attack was so powerful that it ripped a hole into time and space, sendin' Demitri through. The attack is so powerful and dense that not even space and time around the target can maintain existence. The attack was not designed to destroy time and space which is why he ended up killin' himself on miustake.

If an attack fails to destroy time and space through sheer force alone, Demitri can survive it.


Originally posted by Burning thought

9. Is this proven? the darkstalkers wiki also made by fans says something like that its not actually conclusive that Demitri actually gains vast amounts of power from absorbing Pyron, only that it "did" strengthen him. The fact he beat Pyron kinda makes it null.


The only fight that Capcom has explained was between Demitri and Pyron. And this battle ended with Demitri consuming Pyron and becoming stronger.

What are you sayin'? He absorbed Pyron and his power increased. That's what 'I'm' sayin'. And he beat a Pyron who was clearly holdin' back. Either way, he absorbed 'all' of Pyron. A bein' wit enough power to melt planets just by bein' close to them.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Well unfortunately, DS is a mid 90s 2D fighter, it's not heavily story driven. Capcom created books and All About guides for the games but they are all in Japanese. Luckily, Saiki translated the guides. If you don't believe what is said in the guide (even though he makes it very clear that he only used official books) then that's your problem. Email him or register at SRK and Capcom Unity to talk to him, I do.




nwtR4ubllcU

1:33





I don't get what your sayin'. The attack was so powerful that it ripped a hole into time and space, sendin' Demitri through. The attack is so powerful and dense that not even space and time around the target can maintain existence. The attack was not designed to destroy time and space which is why he ended up killin' himself on miustake.

If an attack fails to destroy time and space through sheer force alone, Demitri can survive it.






What are you sayin'? He absorbed Pyron and his power increased. That's what 'I'm' sayin'. And he beat a Pyron who was clearly holdin' back. Either way, he absorbed 'all' of Pyron. A bein' wit enough power to melt planets just by bein' close to them.

That speed was not that fast, infact I am not sure if its even speed. He seems to float a little off the ground, its like he just levitates a short distance. Hardly impressive by most KMC characters standards.

I am saying that we dont know how durable time/space is, and this was a magic arrow that pretty much BFR him, its hard to gauge how impressive it really is, only that it can BFR him. Damaging space, by the sounds of it just consisted of him ripping off a piece of his own Makai body to get rid of Demitris castle.

Pyron at full size and using his powers can do that, that does not mean Demitri gains those specific powers or that it increases his power much at all. Considering Demitri overpowered Pyron, I am thinking Demitri was already>Pyron therefore the increase for Demitri is likely little.

None of these things apart from maybe the assumption that Demitri can perform everything Pyron could do gives him a chance against even lesser opponents than Kain. Dante and Ganondorf are more threatening opponents if thats the best hes got.

Originally posted by Burning thought
That speed was not that fast, infact I am not sure if its even speed. He seems to float a little off the ground, its like he just levitates a short distance. Hardly impressive by most KMC characters standards.

So you didn't see his sprite vanish?

Originally posted by Burning thought
I am saying that we dont know how durable time/space is, and this was a magic arrow that pretty much BFR him, its hard to gauge how impressive it really is, only that it can BFR him. Damaging space, by the sounds of it just consisted of him ripping off a piece of his own Makai body to get rid of Demitris castle.

Pyron at full size and using his powers can do that, that does not mean Demitri gains those specific powers or that it increases his power much at all. Considering Demitri overpowered Pyron, I am thinking Demitri was already>Pyron therefore the increase for Demitri is likely little.

None of these things apart from maybe the assumption that Demitri can perform everything Pyron could do gives him a chance against even lesser opponents than Kain. Dante and Ganondorf are more threatening opponents if thats the best hes got.


Everyone in this thread at once<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Pyron. Now what do you think Demitri+Pyron will do? Your mad if you think Dante and the likes are even close.

And I've been over this wit you 1000 times already. If your the only person who can't see Kain is outmatched then it's really not worth it. Why would you drag me into another circular arguin' match like all the ones before? Why do you want to do this wit me? It's clear you'll never change your mind no matter what evidence is submitted and it's damn sure clear I aint changin' mine cuz Kain doesn't stand a chance. Until your ready to put your bias aside and get serious about this debate. Leave me alone.

I took you off my ignore list cuz I believed you could change. Don't make me regret it.

So much truth. High five.

Originally posted by No End N Site
So you didn't see his sprite vanish?



I've been over this wit you 1000 times already. If your the only person who can't see Kain is outmatched then it's really not worth it. Why would you drag me into another circular arguin' match like all the ones before? Why do you want to do this wit me? It's clear you'll never change your mind no matter what evidence is submitted and it's damn sure clear I aint changin' mine cuz Kain doesn't stand a chance. Until your ready to put your bias aside and get serious about this debate. Leave me alone.

For a split second before the leviation, its not exactly speed however since it wont help him.

It is worth it if you want to argue in this thread. And I am serious, you dont have evidence suggesting Demitri actually has all the powers Pyron has, only that he has gained power. If you dont want to argue it, then do not put forwards an opinion. Nothing supports it, I cannot understand how you cannot see your own bias in your words. based on the powers youve listed yourself, Kain is not outclassed in any way, infact a lot of characters have the powers you listed except maybe midnight bliss.

Demitri is not a combination of both characters, he simply absorbed Pyron. Theres nothing that implies Demitri can become planet sized and fly throughout the galaxy.

Originally posted by Burning thought


Demitri is not a combination of both characters, he simply absorbed Pyron. Theres nothing that implies Demitri can become planet sized and fly throughout the galaxy.

Are you crazy?! I'm not sayin' he has Pyron's cosmic powers. I'm sayin' his strength, speed, stamina and all other stats have been increased by what ever power level Pyron has. Demitri ate 200,000,000 years of raw energy.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
So much truth. High five.

Awriiiiiight

http://www.lovecreative.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/high5.jpg

Originally posted by No End N Site
Are you crazy?! I'm not sayin' he has Pyron's cosmic powers. I'm sayin' his strength, speed, stamina and all other stats have been increased by what ever power level Pyron has. Demitri ate 200,000,000 years of raw energy.

So what seriously supports this? what supports that he can lift and throw planets, move at light speed etc?

I am trying to find Demitris ending after hes eaten Pyron, I could have sworn it implied he was still not strong enough. He was also killed by Jedah apprently.

Originally posted by Burning thought
So what seriously supports this? what supports that he can lift and throw planets, move at light speed etc?
HE STOLE THE ENERGY OF SOMEONE WHO CAN.

He literally consumed him for power.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I am trying to find Demitris ending after hes eaten Pyron, I could have sworn it implied he was still not strong enough. He was also killed by Jedah apprently.

Endin' never said it was not enough power.

Jedah never killed Demitri. It was just a drama CD.

Originally posted by No End N Site
HE STOLE THE ENERGY OF SOMEONE WHO CAN.

He literally consumed him for power.



Endin' never said it was not enough power.

Jedah never killed Demitri. It was just a drama CD.


Absorbing energy is never enough, if you used the same energy that powered your television and plugged in your toaster. You cant watch movies on your toaster.

He consumed him? sure, thats canon, he gained power? sure.....but what he actually gained is never said. You claim to be against saying Demitri has Pyrons cosmic powers, yet your argument is that he has the speed/strength etc of Pyron, sounds like your choosing what you think is likely, not what actually said or shown.

You know where the resources are, can you find the ending for Demitri?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Absorbing energy is never enough, if you used the same energy that powered your television and plugged in your toaster. You cant watch movies on your toaster.

You still don't get it. The toaster is not made for watchin' movies. But if I combined the voltage for the T.V. and toatser and put it all in the toaster and through it in the bath tub while you were in it, it would be like I threw the toaster and T.V. in at the same time. The toaster is more powerful, now.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He consumed him? sure, thats canon, he gained power? sure.....but what he actually gained is never said. You claim to be against saying Demitri has Pyrons cosmic powers, yet your argument is that he has the speed/strength etc of Pyron, sounds like your choosing what you think is likely, not what actually said or shown.

The only person who would make such a ridiculous argument is someone who wants Kain to win very desperately. Pyron is made completely of energy and is an alien life form unlike Demitri. There are some things Pyron can do because of who he is that no one else can. Absorbin' Pyron was like drinkin' an energy drink. The energy that made Pyron is now inside of Demitri. How can that not be understood?

Originally posted by Burning thought
You know where the resources are, can you find the ending for Demitri?

VG museum.com. Go look for it.

-edit-

Here it is

http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/c/ds.htm

Easier to find than I thought.

Originally posted by No End N Site
You still don't get it. The toaster is not made for watchin' movies. But if I combined the voltage for the T.V. and toatser and put it all in the toaster and through it in the bath tub while you were in it, it would be like I threw the toaster and T.V. in at the same time. The toaster is more powerful, now.



The only person who would make such a ridiculous argument is someone who wants Kain to win very desperately. Pyron is made completely of energy and is an alien life form unlike Demitri. There are some things Pyron can do because of who he is that no one else can. Absorbin' Pyron was like drinkin' an energy drink. The energy that made Pyron is now inside of Demitri. How can that not be understood?



VG museum.com. Go look for it.

-edit-

Here it is

http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/c/ds.htm

Easier to find than I thought.

Technically the voltage would be the same if your using the same wire. but this is not as good an analogy as mine because Demitri is taking power, but has not shown he can manipulate it like Pyron can.

I dont care if Kain wins, and according to you Demitri has all of those abilities because he took the energy. Either way its not a feat or even comparable deduction.

That scan proves Demitri is still weak, why? because despite what he has gained he is still says he is weak in sunlight, still says day walking humans are beyond him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Technically the voltage would be the same if your using the same wire. but this is not as good an analogy as mine because Demitri is taking power, but has not shown he can manipulate it like Pyron can.

No, my analogy was better and it made sense. If you took the power of T.V. and put it in a toaster, your toast will be ready faster.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont care if Kain wins, and according to you Demitri has all of those abilities because he took the energy. Either way its not a feat or even comparable deduction.

Accordin' only to you.

Originally posted by Burning thought
That scan proves Demitri is still weak, why? because despite what he has gained he is still says he is weak in sunlight, still says day walking humans are beyond him.

Where does it say any of that? Your just makin stuff up nowiorilmao

Originally posted by No End N Site
No, my analogy was better and it made sense. If you took the power of T.V. and put it in a toaster, your toast will be ready faster.



Accordin' only to you.



Where does it say any of that? Your just makin stuff up nowiorilmao

yes because I have the evidence, theres nothing that states Demitri can use the specific powers of Pyron, nor does he actually get Pyrons speed or strength, hell he still cant even go out in the daylight.


I guess you missed the bit where he said "soon even the day dwellers will bare their throats to me", hence he cannot even go in the daylight to feed. Hes still too weak.

*sigh*

What ever BT...

Originally posted by No End N Site
*sigh*

What ever canon darkstalkers...

Why is anyone actually seriously debating this?

Literally every video or scan in this thread has been brought up against BT at some point in time, he will never change.

Also, "one meter" lol.

Ganondorf himself is over two meters tall.

One meter.

Lawl.

Everyone in this thread will beat Kain.

At football, maybe. Thats about it. In combat he crushes round 1.

Was that an attempt at humor?

Or are you just accidently not funny?

Pff lier, you laughed yourself into a fit.

At the threead, maybe. Each character here,except maybe Bayonetta who I can't remember being against Kain, has thrashed Kain individually before.

They have never thrashed Kain in a thread lol. Maybe to your imagination but not in reality. Kain can kill most together, let alone apart.

I, for one, have not yet seen a thread where Kain was the clear cut winner.

It's been four pages, I'm certain BT has trolled you guys by now. Why haven't you reported him?

Or have you?

Originally posted by The Scenario
I, for one, have not yet seen a thread where Kain was the clear cut winner.

Theres rarely a clear cut winner on KMC. Fortunatly most of the opponents he is against I have the games of and so know the characters.

Pretty sure his latest post was baiting.

Edit: the one before that one.

Why is... football... forget it.

Too many higher tier characters against one Kain on his lonesome. Honestly not one will fall to him so, BT, what was the real reason for this thread?

But anyway, Round 1 was a disapointment. Demitri seems to have few real feats.

Round 2, Kain wins, due to powers drained in the last fight Kratos' Strength and durability would overpower both of them, he then turns them into opposite genders.

Originally posted by BloodRain
BT, what was the real reason for this thread?


To see if some new Demitri info would crop up.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Fortunatly most of the opponents he is against I have the games of and so know the characters. I loled.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I loled.

I have probably played more of those games than you have.

I find it inteesting that it always devolves into Burning Thought arguing against the entire forum.

But yeah, Kain doesn't get past round 1.

Well one of you is getting boring and easy, I need a challenge now and then but unfortunaltey even thats getting easy.

Played every Zelda game except for the faggy WW spin-offs and the CD-i.

Played God of War, God of War 2, and Chains of Olympus, cannot afford 3 at the moment.

Played all the DMCs at varying lengths, never beat admittedly, could not take the faggotry.

Played Bayonetta, while I did not like the game for the most part, the decent combat and "Fly Me to the Moon" got me through it.

Have played Defiance, only LoK game I have admittedly played.

Played all three Darkstalker games.

Yeah no.

I have at least played something from the series every one of these characters is from.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Played every Zelda game except for the faggy WW spin-offs and the CD-i.

Played God of War, God of War 2, and Chains of Olympus, cannot afford 3 at the moment.

Played all the DMCs at varying lengths, never beat admittedly, could not take the faggotry.

Played Bayonetta, while I did not like the game for the most part, the decent combat and "Fly Me to the Moon" got me through it.

Have played Defiance, only LoK game I have admittedly played.

Played all three Darkstalker games.

Yeah no.

I have at least played something from the series every one of these characters is from.

Ive played all GoW apart from Chains of Olmypus.

Completed DMC

Bayonetta completed

All LoK games completed.

The only one that counts and that I have missed in this list is LoZ, thats it. Your lacking most of the LoK games, the final GoW, youve not completed DMC.....wtf...why did you even enter this thread young sir?

Considering there's UMPTEEN Zelda games, NemeBro wins.

Guy likes to argue. Should of just did 'vs Demitri' then.

If one of those was so far in Kain favor then eah, go for a 3v1. But not when each character is =/>Kain, this is a definition of 'overkill'.

He doesnt win if hes not even got any grip on the majority of the characters here. Hes only advantage over me is one series, I have the advantage in most.


Originally posted by BloodRain
Guy likes to argue. Should of just did 'vs Demitri' then.

If one of those was so far in Kain favor then eah, go for a 3v1. But not when each character is =/>Kain, this is a definition of 'overkill'.

Already done so I had to make a new thread, I may as well kill characters again in other threads for lulz.

Not based on evidence, based on the appeal to popularity fallacy maybe. None of you, or perhaps even all of you can argue against me, your arguments fall flat.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ive played all GoW apart from Chains of Olmypus.

Completed DMC

Bayonetta completed

All LoK games completed.

The only one that counts and that I have missed in this list is LoZ, thats it. Your lacking most of the LoK games, the final GoW, youve not completed DMC.....wtf...why did you even enter this thread young sir? You have not played a SINGLE LoZ game, nor have you played a single Darkstalkers game.

I have played more of these games than you in terms of sheer quantity.

I played the LoK game where Kain is at his strongest. Not impressive my lesser British compadre.

I have not completed DMC because the series is for fagballs', though I know well what Dante is capable of and have argued FOR him in threads multiple times.

I cannot afford the final GoW. Kratos was superior to Kain in GoW 2.

Yeah, I have played more of these games than you, and am far less biased. I am clearly the more catholic between us in terms of deciding which character would win, so you should simply give up all hope of ever being my equal and grovel at my feet.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He doesnt win if hes not even got any grip on the majority of the characters here. Hes only advantage over me is one series, I have the advantage in most.




Already done so I had to make a new thread, I may as well kill characters again in other threads for lulz.

Not based on evidence, based on the appeal to popularity fallacy maybe. None of you, or perhaps even all of you can argue against me, your arguments fall flat.

Mewtwo vs Kain, Mewtwo won. Dante vs Kain, Dante. Both times I made the majority of the arguments.. and there are tons of better debaters here.

May as well say from what evidence Kain even turns up for the fight.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You have not played a SINGLE LoZ game, nor have you played a single Darkstalkers game.

I have played more of these games than you in terms of sheer quantity.

I played the LoK game where Kain is at his strongest. Not impressive my lesser British compadre.

I have not completed DMC because the series is for fagballs', though I know well what Dante is capable of and have argued FOR him in threads multiple times.

I cannot afford the final GoW. Kratos was superior to Kain in GoW 2.

Yeah, I have played more of these games than you, and am far less biased. I am clearly the more catholic between us in terms of deciding which character would win, so you should simply give up all hope of ever being my equal and grovel at my feet.

Darkstalkers is irrelevant, it has few storyline info as whats his name agreed. The bits of story relevant, I have seen.

In sheer quantity, not in sheer knowledge. The more important ones in this thread are beyond you.

Him being at his strongest does not mean its useful to you at all, and btw in that game hes faster than all in Round 1 and can still kill any in a strike based on feats,not appeal to popularity.

Yes and I know well what Ganondorf is capable of, and more importantly what he is not.

Nah, ive played all of them, hes not superior overall. Only in strength, dont try and argue with someone who knows more about the game than you do my lesser Americano.

far less biased lol. You would massage either Ganon or Kratos' backs if they ordered you to. You know less about the more important figuires in this match by far.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Mewtwo vs Kain, Mewtwo won. Dante vs Kain, Dante. Both times I made the majority of the arguments.. and there are tons of better debaters here.

May as well say from what evidence Kain even turns up for the fight.

According to you, according to me M2 lost, Dante lost etc etc, in games vs? nah, theres perhaps a couple that are my equel, thats it. The rest are trolls, baiters and cough up fallacies like hairballs from a sick cat thats been licking carpet.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He doesnt win if hes not even got any grip on the majority of the characters here. Hes only advantage over me is one series, I have the advantage in most.




Already done so I had to make a new thread, I may as well kill characters again in other threads for lulz.

Not based on evidence, based on the appeal to popularity fallacy maybe. None of you, or perhaps even all of you can argue against me, your arguments fall flat. Crikey!? Is that a Burning Thought!?

The Burning Thought is a very unique creature, even when proved wrong countless times, the Burning Thought will never cease his futile effort to be right and even insists upon it! It has even been known to use double standards...!

And now, I am gonna take my thumb, and jam it right in its butthole!

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e154/donym11/Steve-Irwin.jpg

Originally posted by NemeBro
Crikey!? Is that a Burning Thought!?

The Burning Thought is a very unique creature, even when trolled and baited countless times, the Burning Thought will never cease throttling the entire forum with ease! It has even been known to use fallacies unlike its short sighted opposition...!

And now, I am gonna take my thumb, and jam it right in my own butthole!




Corrected

http://consejo.bz/andros/images/fish/manta-ray.jpg

You ignore what's in the canon that destroys Kain.

If you do know as much as you claim you are obviously trolling because you'd know how much spite this thread is.

You're either ignorant of facts, or trolling, pick one.

This is wrong, you consistently make WHOLLY inaccurate claims concerning Ganon due to ridiculous reverse bias.

Kratos > Kain. It should be obvious to someone who's played a single GoW game.



You're the poster boy for bias on this forum.

You're near unanimously seen as the worst debator on the forum, and the VAST majority knows Kain lost those threads, you probably do, too.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You ignore what's in the canon that destroys Kain.

If you do know as much as you claim you are obviously trolling because you'd know how much spite this thread is.

You're either ignorant of facts, or trolling, pick one.

This is wrong, you consistently make WHOLLY inaccurate claims concerning Ganon due to ridiculous reverse bias.

Kratos > Kain. It should be obvious to someone who's played a single GoW game.



You're the poster boy for bias on this forum.

No I ignore fanon, its completly different to canon dear boy. You ignore all of Kains powers because you hate seeing LoZ characters drop like flies.

No, I create threads not because I think I am going to get a good debate out of them (on KMC? lol...) but because I want to see what others think even if I think its bull.

Nope, I have seen the exact same feats you try and ram into threads and their poor, even your fanon does not strengthen him enough.

I have played them all bar the one on the PSP, no, Kratos does not>Kain unless its a strength match. I guess youve not even played GoW?

hahaha! says the guy who has his own Link club.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You're near unanimously seen as the worst debator on the forum, and the VAST majority knows Kain lost those threads, you probably do, too.

Nah, I can conquer you all in threads and then you constantly troll. Youve even admitted it. You cant even put an argument together without trying to make a bandwagon like your doing now, its rather lowly. Your even comitting a popularity fallacy now and your attempting to pin "worst debator" on me? get lost lol, maybe in a popularity contest.

Really, Kain is up against 3 characters at once, all of whom are either more powerful or equal to him. Even if they were slightly less powerful, Kain couldn't win a 3v1 with these characters.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Really, Kain is up against 3 characters at once, all of whom are either more powerful or equal to him. Even if they were slightly less powerful, Kain couldn't win a 3v1 with these characters.

Tell me, how much of each characters games have you played? youve played the whole LoK series I take it since you seem to be quite confident in your verdict?

Originally posted by Burning thought
According to you, according to me M2 lost, Dante lost etc etc, in games vs? nah, theres perhaps a couple that are my equel, thats it. The rest are trolls, baiters and cough up fallacies like hairballs from a sick cat thats been licking carpet.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You're near unanimously seen as the worst debator on the forum, and the VAST majority knows Kain lost those threads, you probably do, too.

Me and the everyone else that posted agreed on who wins. You calling me a troll baiting hairball puker? o-o

Still don't see any evidence to support this odd claim of Kain winning?

Edit: Played enough of those games (each character), read online, seen feats hear etc. So I know he can't win.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Me and the everyone else that posted agreed on who wins. You calling me a troll baiting hairball puker? o-o

Still don't see any evidence to support this odd claim of Kain winning?

That does not make it truth, thats called an appeal to popularity fallacy, a failure of logic. I dont really think your a troll, infact i think your a class of debator only just below myself, your one of the better ones, be happy.

Oh really? how about the evidence he can react and move faster than anyone in round 1, he can kill them with a plethora of spells and gain their powers and if he really wants to. He can mind control and inspire hate in them, effectively turning some of his opposition to his side.

I have actually played almost all those games or at least seen the feats that make them special. I know they cant beat him.

Fanon is Kain being faster than Kratos, Ganon, and Demitri. You cannot create a thread like this, and claim you know anything about the characters inside, without acknowledging it is infact horrific spite, or else you are a troll.

Played a Zelda game? No? Room to talk? None! Even you know Ganon crushes Kain on his own.

I'm just gonna call bullshit, if you had actually played these games, you wouldn't sic Kratos on your precious Kain.

Lol, the LLLC's existance = I'm more biased than someone claiming Kain can beat three very powerful characters who outclass him in every way, on his own?

You've never out debated anyone and I don't need to appeal to popularity, because you're so obviously wrong it's redundant. Also, calling me a troll while creating a thread specificly to troll, behaving like ,a troll, and you know, trolling, is ironic.

-Claiming to win, and be superior to everyone else.. With no evidence to suggest that.
-Intentionally ignoring facts, and posting things that are wrong to annoy people.


You cannot claim to have knowledge, and then behave in such a way that contradicts that, and expect to be believed. If you do have the knowledge you claim, you are a troll, if you do not, then you're a liar. Don't care which, in neither case are you credible.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Crikey!? Is that a Burning Thought!?

The Burning Thought is a very unique creature, even when proved wrong countless times, the Burning Thought will never cease his futile effort to be right and even insists upon it! It has even been known to use double standards...!

And now, I am gonna take my thumb, and jam it right in its butthole!

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e154/donym11/Steve-Irwin.jpg

Quoted mother****er 131

Scream, I believe that first section of his post you quoted is baiting. And the second one may qualify as well.

Reports. Rack 'em up.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Fanon is Kain being faster than Kratos, Ganon, and Demitri. You cannot create a thread like this, and claim you know anything about the characters inside, without acknowledging it is infact horrific spite, or else you are a troll.

Played a Zelda game? No? Room to talk? None! Even you know Ganon crushes Kain on his own.

I'm just gonna call bullshit, if you had actually played these games, you wouldn't sic Kratos on your precious Kain.

Lol, the LLLC's existance = I'm more biased than someone claiming Kain can beat three very powerful characters who outclass him in every way, on his own?

You've never out debated anyone and I don't need to appeal to popularity, because you're so obviously wrong it's redundant. Also, calling me a troll while creating a thread specificly to troll, behaving like ,a troll, and you know, trolling, is ironic.

-Claiming to win, and be superior to everyone else.. With no evidence to suggest that.
-Intentionally ignoring facts, and posting things that are wrong to annoy people.


You cannot claim to have knowledge, and then behave in such a way that contradicts that, and expect to be believed. If you do have the knowledge you claim, you are a troll, if you do not, then you're a liar. Don't care which, in neither case are you credible.

Thats called canon, based on feats. Not an appeal to popularity.

No, your just trolling me yet again right now, you dont know half as much as I do on the majority of these characters, infact you dont know hardly anything about LoK so why you enter Kain threads is obvious just to spite me.

No, Ganons weak in comparison, I just throw him in threads because I like him.

I dont think youve played a Zelda game in that case, otherwise you would know Ganon would be crushed by Kain.

Nah, its excistence just proves your degree of fanon and support for Link as a charatcer,not just as an entity to debate with like I do Kain. Youve even made an effort to create "oaths" of alleigence to your club.

What would you ever know? i have been here far longer than you have and I throttle anyone who gets in a debate with me including you. hence why appeal to audiance and fallacies are your only supporting straws that are brittle and unsteady to say the least.


I am credible because I have played most of these games here or seen the important feats of the LoZ characters that you banter about. I have more knowledge in this thread than you do overall, so I suggest you leave.

Originally posted by Burning thought
That does not make it truth, thats called an appeal to popularity fallacy, a failure of logic. I dont really think your a troll, infact i think your a class of debator only just below myself, your one of the better ones, be happy.

Oh really? how about the evidence he can react and move faster than anyone in round 1, he can kill them with a plethora of spells and gain their powers and if he really wants to. He can mind control and inspire hate in them, effectively turning some of his opposition to his side.

I have actually played almost all those games or at least seen the feats that make them special. I know they cant beat him.

Ill take that as the best compliment i could get out of you ;p

Highly debatable this teleport=/reactions business. Kratos has taken most damage Kain can give in various forms, Ganon's magic will mess him up bad and Demitri after eating Pyron? Easier to go for one at a time and hope for the best.

Ditto, but a different answer.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Ill take that as the best compliment i could get out of you ;p

Highly debatable this teleport=/reactions business. Kratos has taken most damage Kain can give in various forms, Ganon's magic will mess him up bad and Demitri after eating Pyron? Easier to go for one at a time and hope for the best.

Ditto, but a different answer.



Look, either way Kain being able to teleport puts him beyond Kratos' reach. kain having a vast array of soul, blood or time distorting powers makes him unbeatable to Kratos, Kratos himself has only resisted a particulour technique of soul powers, not kains so he is still fair game to having his soul spiritually and obliviously ripped. Ganons magic? whats Ganon even done? nothing.....he shoots blasts and has used some TK, he created a little tremur and his tactics when he fails as Dorf is to transform into a physical beast....

Demitri after eating Pyron is featless, its only deep rooted assumpotion that can give him anything. I agree completly that with Pyrons powers at his full control as if he was pyron himself he would be overpowered but this is never shown to be the case, the character is at best ambigious.

Kain can as I said, mind control or inspire hate in any of them. Kratos would be such an easy target to inspire hate in, if Demitri was as strong as people think then he would also be an excellent choice for mind control.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You ignore what's in the canon that destroys Kain.

If you do know as much as you claim you are obviously trolling because you'd know how much spite this thread is.

You're either ignorant of facts, or trolling, pick one.

This is wrong, you consistently make WHOLLY inaccurate claims concerning Ganon due to ridiculous reverse bias.

Kratos > Kain. It should be obvious to someone who's played a single GoW game.



You're the poster boy for bias on this forum.

You said it perfectly, I was tryin' hard not to sound like a jerk, but I knew someone was gonna say what I was thinkin'.

Kain doesn't have a sure fire way to kill anyone in this thread. Let alone Demitri after he absorbed this dude...

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/2118/156509-pyron2_super.jpg

Who could move at the speed of light even in his smaller form

I lol'd. Kain's a slug compared to them.
You put Ganondorf in this thread, now you get to deal with me, also don't feel special. Anyone who made such a poor thread would recieve the same speech.

Obvious troll remark, you've never played a single gfame he's in and follow him around trying to degrade him for some reason, and now you like him? Ha. I also lol'd at weak by comparison. He's on a scale Kain can only dream about.



Lolwut? More trolling. KMC's most well reknowned Zelda fanboy, hasn't played a Zelda game? Righto. How about you provide some kind of line of reasoning that isn't so horrificly flawed everyone else on KMC laughs to support that? Kain's hilariously weak, frail, and impotent next to Ganon. Kain steals staffs with TK, Ganon levitates castles. Kain sets things on fire. Ganon busts islands. Kain's hurt by Raziel, Ganon tanks a castle busting from Midna. Kain swingsh is sword at 0.33, Ganon blocks strikes in less than 0.03.

Yoda wrote those for the lulz. I find it hilarious that you're trying to use a joke page on a wiki to prove I'm not credible when I actually concede debates that Link can't win.


Trolling.
-Pretending to be superior to me, despite me consistantly crushing your posts and arguments in innumerable threads.
-Claiming to be the best debator on KMC? Lol.
-Claiming my only support is fallacious?
-Trying to claim the LLLC is a serious organisation with oaths and rules that actually organises anything? Lol. It had LOL in the NAME.


If you didn't want me in this thread, you would not have put Ganondorf in it. I'm here, and I'm crushing you, and now you want me to go away. Awesome. How many more times can I slay you before you learn?

-Claiming to have more knowledge than me, with no basis for that, while behaving in a manner that contradicts the idea you possess said knowledge.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I lol'd. Kain's a slug compared to them.
You put Ganondorf in this thread, now you get to deal with me, also don't feel special. Anyone who made such a poor thread would recieve the same speech.

Obvious troll remark, you've never played a single gfame he's in and follow him around trying to degrade him for some reason, and now you like him? Ha. I also lol'd at weak by comparison. He's on a scale Kain can only dream about.



Lolwut? More trolling. KMC's most well reknowned Zelda fanboy, hasn't played a Zelda game? Righto. How about you provide some kind of line of reasoning that isn't so horrificly flawed everyone else on KMC laughs to support that? Kain's hilariously weak, frail, and impotent next to Ganon. Kain steals staffs with TK, Ganon levitates castles. Kain sets things on fire. Ganon busts islands. Kain's hurt by Raziel, Ganon tanks a castle busting from Midna. Kain swingsh is sword at 0.33, Ganon blocks strikes in less than 0.03.

Yoda wrote those for the lulz. I find it hilarious that you're trying to use a joke page on a wiki to prove I'm not credible when I actually concede debates that Link can't win.


Trolling.
-Pretending to be superior to me, despite me consistantly crushing your posts and arguments in innumerable threads.
-Claiming to be the best debator on KMC? Lol.
-Claiming my only support is fallacious?
-Trying to claim the LLLC is a serious organisation with oaths and rules that actually organises anything? Lol. It had LOL in the NAME.


If you didn't want me in this thread, you would not have put Ganondorf in it. I'm here, and I'm crushing you, and now you want me to go away. Awesome. How many more times can I slay you before you learn?

-Claiming to have more knowledge than me, with no basis for that, while behaving in a manner that contradicts the idea you possess said knowledge.

not based on feats.


Dealing with you is easy, just bring out the troll food and wait for the whining, bashing and fanon to begin.

I dont degrade him, I give him the respect he deserves by dissolving fanon. hes on a scale far below the others in this thread apart from maybe Kratos.

You really need to appeal to audiance fallacy dont you? does it make you feel like your hollow, poorly made arguments are actually worth something? Kains far more durable than Ganon, faster and more powerful overall. He has powers Ganon would never be able to face. And all of that is fanon, in truth Kain can survive region covering reality warping at his weakest state, can mind control and TK blood, he has powers that would kill Ganon, Link and most in LoZ with ease.

I always concede debates Kain cant win, this is not one of them.

-Baseless statements
-trolling etc etc

I have seen this nonsense from you before.

Your crushing me yet you have no real arguments for your fanon Ganon and are burying yourself under fallacies. Hilarious...now this will be a reason to have a LoZ character in a thread from now on.

Originally posted by No End N Site
You said it perfectly, I was tryin' hard not to sound like a jerk, but I knew someone was gonna say what I was thinkin'.

Kain doesn't have a sure fire way to kill anyone in this thread. Let alone Demitri after he absorbed this dude...

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/2118/156509-pyron2_super.jpg

Who could move at the speed of light even in his smaller form

Better state that that was canon. Knowing BT, he'll probably say something along the lines 'comic scan isn't canon'.

@ BT and SP

You two should just kiss already.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Better state that that was canon. Knowing BT, he'll probably say something along the lines 'comic scan isn't canon'.


Nah I know where its from, its not canon in this thread until I say otherwise however. And I will allow it.

But this isnt Pyron in this thread, and nothing is outlined in the Demitri fight, we dont know how Pyron fought Demitri. I assume however that No End N Site is going to go through piles of assumptions and claim he was planet busting and light speeding in it? "sigh"

No, it is common knowledge Demitri only fought Pyron's mortal, weaker form.

Though you think Kain would beat Pyron at his strongest so... Yeah.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, it is common knowledge Demitri only fought Pyron's mortal, weaker form.

Though you think Kain would beat Pyron at his strongest so... Yeah.


Pyron has no soul defences. Youve never been able to argue that point. Not even when I buried you as V2D among your fallacies that your still making today. And I would actually argue that Pyron would likely win still, but this is not Pyron in this fight.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Better state that that was canon. Knowing BT, he'll probably say something along the lines 'comic scan isn't canon'.

And that's sad cuz his in game endin's have him better than this. I just posted that cuz it looks cool. Dude shrunk.

His in game attacks have him shrink constellations and use them as super moves.

The one where Pyron shrinks Earth? let me guess you think Demitri can do that now? yet he cant walk in daylight lol.....nah...

Originally posted by Burning thought
not based on feats.


Dealing with you is easy, just bring out the troll food and wait for the whining, bashing and fanon to begin.

I dont degrade him, I give him the respect he deserves by dissolving fanon. hes on a scale far below the others in this thread apart from maybe Kratos.

You really need to appeal to audiance fallacy dont you? does it make you feel like your hollow, poorly made arguments are actually worth something? Kains far more durable than Ganon, faster and more powerful overall. He has powers Ganon would never be able to face. And all of that is fanon, in truth Kain can survive region covering reality warping at his weakest state, can mind control and TK blood, he has powers that would kill Ganon, Link and most in LoZ with ease.

I always concede debates Kain cant win, this is not one of them.

-Baseless statements
-trolling etc etc

I have seen this nonsense from you before.

Your crushing me yet you have no real arguments for your fanon Ganon and are burying yourself under fallacies. Hilarious...now this will be a reason to have a LoZ character in a thread from now on.

Reported, also, I lol'd. Dealing with me is easy eh? You admitted to baiting. :]

Your guilty of everything you think I am of, if not more so go ahead. And no I did not admit to anything, your the one whos admitted to being a troll over and over. I am a debator trying to debate and your a troll who wants to attempt to defeat arguments you can scarcely comprehend.

For the good of the forum, then. They'll remember me as a hero, sing songs, and toast in my honor.

Edit: Add personal attacks to the list of offenses, BT! Reported again. Can scarecely comprehend.. Lol. Quoting incase you edit, too:

Originally posted by Burning thought
No End N Site is going to go through piles of assumptions and claim he was planet busting and light speeding in it? "sigh"

His warp move is called Galaxy Trip, it's how he travels FTL, and he can do it in the game. His super known as Cosmic Disruption has him summon several star constellations, including the Big Dipper and bring them on to the battle field. And Demitri absorbed him. Kain is powerless in the face of Demitri.

It would be a wasted effort, the moderators are bias against me anyway. They dont need a reason to warn/ban me.

Originally posted by No End N Site
His warp move is called Galaxy Trip, it's how he travels FTL, and he can do it in the game. His super known as Cosmic Disruption has him summon several star constellations, including the Big Dipper and bring them on to the battle field. And Demitri absorbed his powerless in the face of Demitri.

He travels FTL by rolling into a fetal position, this does not mean any of these in-game powers are impressive or that he used them against Demitri.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It would be a wasted effort, the moderators are bias against me anyway. They dont need a reason to warn/ban me. Don't feel special because the mods do their job. I got banned, too, remember? And the mods love me.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Don't feel special because the mods do their job. I got banned, too, remember? And the mods love me.

They rarely do their job, they do what they want. otherwise you would have been warned/banned before that stage. You forget I have stayed for years without being banned or warned, your behaviour is the fault. Its just their dislike of me that leads to me getting punished for nothing, they will never be able to quote the thread at the point i was banned. You may slay me mortal, but I will die while proving a point, nobody on this forum can beat me in a debate and that at least the games vs moderators show incredible hypocrisy and bias.

scream quit tower diving its nawt worth it

Oh please, that's no excuse and you know it. "It's Scream's fault.", no, it's not. You choose to post the way you do, push the keys you do, ect. You don't get banned often because they're so lenient. It's been said by many people your ban was long over due.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Oh please, that's no excuse and you know it. "It's Scream's fault.", no, it's not. You choose to post the way you do, push the keys you do, ect. You don't get banned often because they're so lenient. It's been said by many people your ban was long over due.

Its not an excuse if I actually did something wrong, I never did in that case. I have done, I deserved several warnings but that point of the ban was unjustified.

Yes, people holding grudges and who have silly problems against me. If they dont like being beaten in an argumetn then they should not argue. Thats what I get for posting in a forum full of arrogent youths.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He travels FTL by rolling into a fetal position, this does not mean any of these in-game powers are impressive or that he used them against Demitri.

Even the OVA will show you that he uses his specials constantly. The fact is, in his weaker form, he can do it and Demitri absorbed him. Demitri's power level is now increased by Pyron's power level. You can deny it all you want but it's common sense. 1 + 1 = 2, not 1.3 or 1.5. Just stop it.

Screampaste needs to send you go on another vacation, friend.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Even the OVA will show you that he uses his specials constantly. The fact is, in his weaker form, he can do it and Demitri absorbed him. Demitri's power level is now increased by Pyron's power level. You can deny it all you want but it's common sense. 1 + 1 = 2, not 1.3 or 1.5. Just stop it.

Hes more powerful, that doesnt mean hes got the powers Pyron once had. Now you stop it, fact of the matter is Demitri was more powerful than pyron in the first place so Pyrons, speed, strength or w/e he may have used is redundant to Demitri who is a lesser vampire on Earth. The guy has to shield hismelf from the sun for gods sake. Based on your equation Kain is nigh omnipotent (typical use, not Mirias).

1. It is an excuse, you broke the rules, you were trolling and baiting and flaming. We both got banned, one of us is complaining, that one is you. There was no bias, the mods did their jobs. Saw a problem, and solved it. You're luck they're lenient.

2. IRONY. You've been trying to get a certain other member banned for a long time because you don't seem to enjoy arguing with them.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
1. It is an excuse, you broke the rules, you were trolling and baiting and flaming. We both got banned, one of us is complaining, that one is you. There was no bias, the mods did their jobs. Saw a problem, and solved it. You're luck they're lenient.

2. IRONY. You've been trying to get a certain other member banned for a long time because you don't seem to enjoy arguing with them.

1. I disagagree, I only did it once, I deserved a couple of warnings. The final ban on the other hand should have been yours, I dont remember bashing anyone in that thread when you jumped in and started trolling me. You mean your lucky, you would have been gone before you could even attack me if they were strict.

2. I think their one of the better people to argue with I have you know, you dont know the half of it however.

You really need to accept responsibility for your own actions and their consequences, I did. Maturity is a good thing in this case.

I know that it would make you VERY unpopular to do something underhanded.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You really need to accept responsibility for your own actions and their consequences, I did. Maturity is a good thing in this case.

I know that it would make you VERY unpopular to do something underhanded.

1. I do, hence why I admit to two warnings, not the final ban.

2. I am already very unpopular for daft reasons, it would only mean theres yet another reason. but I prefer the guy here than not.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Hes more powerful, that doesnt mean hes got the powers Pyron once had.

His power increased by however much ate. Stop denying this.

Originally posted by Burning thought
fact of the matter is Demitri was more powerful than pyron in the first place so Pyrons, speed, strength or w/e he may have used is redundant to Demitri who is a lesser vampire on Earth.

So Demitri is FTL and powerful enough to brush off compressed stars. I know.


Originally posted by Burning thought
The guy has to shield hismelf from the sun for gods sake. Based on your equation Kain is nigh omnipotent (typical use, not Mirias).

Just because Capcom decided to give him a weakness all vampires have doesn't mean he's weak. And he can shield him self and WHOLE CASTLES in energy barriers at only 80% power. Kain wish he could put out that type of energy. Kain fails.

come on bt, can you please accept this lose. this is like your pointless arguments with supermario. everybody is against you, even a moderator, game. dance

Originally posted by No End N Site
His power increased by however much ate. Stop denying this.



So Demitri is FTL and powerful enough to brush off compressed stars. I know.




Just because Capcom decided to give him a weakness all vampires have doesn't mean he's weak. And he can shield him self and WHOLE CASTLES in energy barriers at only 80% power. Kain wish he could put out that type of energy. Kain fails.

Stop implying this, I will continue to deny it until you provide proof. We only know he ate Pyron, theres nothing about him gaining his full powers.

Never shown, Pyron and Demitris fight=ambigious. Your not even making sense in your own fiction, Demitri is terrified of the suns light yet you think he can take stars? lol...

All vampires apart from superior ones like Kain for example.

Originally posted by wammamram
come on bt, can you please accept this lose. this is like your pointless arguments with supermario. everybody is against you, even a moderator, game. dance


This is not a loss, I can bring up many reasons for Kain winning, nobody can counter me or my arguments. An appeal to audiance fallacy is yet another nail in my oppositions coffin, thanks for supplying it.

You've got no argument, and Wam's post is not a nail in anyone's coffin. Any point you tried to make was crushed by page two. We have videos and scans and evidence in this thread, you do not. Each of these characters could solo Kain, as a group they are incredible spite.

You refuse to acknowledge this, or simply do and refuse to admit it for the sake of trolling. One or the other.

You know, with all the claims being thrown around, I haven't really seen Burning Thought support a single one of them. Ganon and Demetri are the only ones that have been backed up.

I hate every time someone says "X is faster/stronger/better than Y" and expects this to mean something. Why are they faster? "Because they are." I've seen nothing to suggest Kain defeats even Ganondorf. Burning Thought, why do you spend all your time attempting to break the opposition and discredit their feats, while providing none for Kain? I'm honestly curious. Give me something to work with, and stop bashing every character that isn't Kain.

And this ban on anything non-cutscene makes very little sense. It's like they aren't even game characters anymore. Only the movies count. If it's in the game, why can't it be used?

Can you give a reason Kain wins, at the very least?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You've got no argument, and Wam's post is not a nail in anyone's coffin. Any point you tried to make was crushed by page two. We have videos and scans and evidence in this thread, you do not. Each of these characters could solo Kain, as a group they are incredible spite.

You refuse to acknowledge this, or simply do and refuse to admit it for the sake of trolling. One or the other.


No its a nail in my oppositions, youve supplied most of them however. You have no argument lol, and youve got no proof either. I have all the evidence under my belt that proves Kain is superior in every way, or that he could beat Round 1 in one move.

Nah, I refuse to submit to your trolling attempts, ignoring claims and lack of knowledge on most of the series in this thread.

He says he has evidence. But where is it?

yes someone agrued with me! this calls for another dancedance

Originally posted by The Scenario
You know, with all the claims being thrown around, I haven't really seen Burning Thought support a single one of them. Ganon and Demetri are the only ones that have been backed up.

I hate every time someone says "X is faster/stronger/better than Y" and expects this to mean something. Why are they faster? "Because they are." I've seen nothing to suggest Kain defeats even Ganondorf. Burning Thought, why do you spend all your time attempting to break the opposition and discredit their feats, while providing none for Kain? I'm honestly curious. Give me something to work with, and stop bashing every character that isn't Kain.

And this ban on anything non-cutscene makes very little sense. It's like they aren't even game characters anymore. Only the movies count. If it's in the game, why can't it be used?

Can you give a reason Kain wins, at the very least?

They havnt been backed up with good evidence. Theres a scan for Pyron whos not in the thread and theres gameplay mechanics for Ganon. Heres all the evidence that provides Kain a win;

Kains Blood omen spells:

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/bo1/spells.php

Blood omen 2 powers:

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/reaverraz.php

Raziels powers:

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/sr1/abilities.php

Raziels reavers:
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/sr2/reavers.php
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/reaverraz.php

Kains reavers:
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/def/reaverkain.php

The soul spells, blood shower and mind powers will beat any of team 1 in one move.

zlADE67ReCg&feature=related

At 0:38

"vampires immortal flesh close as soon as its cleaved"

OF1S2bo6cSg

1:08 shows Kain teleporting too quick for any of round 1 to react, Kain reacts in 0.2 seconds at each teleport, faster than their reflexes can even keep up with based on a lack of feats.

If you like math:

VWFp_M6BHpc&feature=related

Raziel moves around blocks that have been mathed even by scream at about 45 tonnes, he then moves around two on top of the other with ease. With around 100 tonnes of strength he can strike Kain and deal no damage, despite being able to slice into concrete. The PSI on the edge of his sharp blades is unlike anything Ganon has faced and repelled and beyond anything he has dealt either.

KEQVULC9PwA

Kain reacted and moved meters in under 0.2 seconds in this vid at 5;18, Artifical Glory, me and Bloodrain got 0.2, if not under consistently. Me and Artifical got about 0.18, this is blinding speed for Kratos and Demitri. Even Ganon has not reacted at these speeds, Kain has.

Any more evidence you may need should be on that Dark chronicle site I gave you.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Stop implying this, I will continue to deny it until you provide proof. We only know he ate Pyron, theres nothing about him gaining his full powers.

There is no one on this forum who will agree wit in what your sayin'. He ate Pyron to gain more strength. Yet did not gain power from eatin' Pyron? I don't have to prove what any normal human should have common sense to know. You can't even prove if Kain wont be absorbed by Demitri or how Kain will survive Midnight Bliss.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Never shown, Pyron and Demitris fight=ambigious. Your not even making sense in your own fiction, Demitri is terrified of the suns light yet you think he can take stars?

Since when has Demitri been scared of stars or sunlight? He has a energy field he can use to protect him. He is invulnerable to sunlight and even when not protected, it's nothing more than a minor "irritant". Your bein' a total troll and fanboi now. When Kain can survive a temperature of 1,000,000 degrees Celsius. He's a loser when it comes to Demitri.





Originally posted by Burning thought
This is not a loss

It is, your insane biased is just blinding you from this fact.

Let's note that none of those spells have feats in regards to general power. Similar to all of Kain's blood powers and his mind control stuff.

Isn't it a no limit fallacy when you assume something like, say, blood shower can rip blood from a person who is relatively durable when all it's done is take it from normal humans?

Originally posted by No End N Site
There is no one on this forum who will agree wit in what your sayin'. He ate Pyron to gain more strength. Yet did not gain power from eatin' Pyron? I don't have to prove what any normal human should have common sense to know. You can't even prove if Kain wont be absorbed by Demitri or how Demitri will survive Midnight Bliss.



Since when has Demitri been scared of stars or sunlight? He has a energy field he can use to protect him. He is invulnerable to sunlight and even when not protected, it's nothing more than a minor "irritant". Your bein' a total troll and fanboi now. When Kain can survive a temperature of 1,000,000 degrees Celsius. He's a loser when it comes to Demitri.







It is, your insane biased is just blinding you from this fact.

Then their bias and ignorant. He gained more strength, we just know its not much because its not even taken away his weakness to sunlight, hes not as strong as he was against belial. We dont know how the "absorbtion" works either so its not a feat and if your trying to use midnight bliss then your beginning to argue, well done.

Since he can be disintegrated without his shield against sunlights rays. When has demitri survived those temperatures? let me guess, in the presence of belial before he was weakened?

No, thats my opposition. I am using evidence, and my own knowledge of the games I have played. Darkstalkers and LoZ are the only ones, 2 characters, Darkstalkers being pretty amigious leaving only 1 character I do not know everything on, Ganondorf.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Let's note that none of those spells have feats in regards to general power. Similar to all of Kain's blood powers and his mind control stuff.

Isn't it a no limit fallacy when you assume something like, say, blood shower can rip blood from a person who is relatively durable when all it's done is take it from normal humans?


Their straight forward abilities that are well scripted, i.e, they tell you exactly what they do. If a character has no resistances for their souls, their blood, etc then their powerless. If they have no technique against someone who can mind control, then their powerless.

No, because your assuming durability has anything to do with it. If it was a projectile based on physical damage then saying it could break anyones body would be a no limit fallacy. This is not the same.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Let's note that none of those spells have feats in regards to general power. Similar to all of Kain's blood powers and his mind control stuff.

Isn't it a no limit fallacy when you assume something like, say, blood shower can rip blood from a person who is relatively durable when all it's done is take it from normal humans?

Don't tell BT that. Hell as far as BT is concerned Kain can do this to people who can withstand temperatures of 1 million degrees, no problem.

Yes because withstanding temperature protects your blood from sorcery. Not that current Demitri has that feat ofc.

Originally posted by Burning thought
They havnt been backed up with good evidence. Theres a scan for Pyron whos not in the thread and theres gameplay mechanics for Ganon. Heres all the evidence that provides Kain a win;

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/bo1/spells.php

The soul spells, blood shower and mind powers will beat any of team 1 in one move.


Time for a little exercise/experiment. Any of those been used outside of gameplay?



"They need only fear those that impale or enflame."

Point of that video?



That looks like game mechanics. Has he ever done that in a cutscene?



Looks like it was only in regard to pushing and lifting things. If he could hit that hard, those little enemies would have been instantly destroyed. Game mechanics.



That's supposed to be a reaction? Raziel took a while to stand up, and longer for Kain to even notice. Then Kain made a short dash. Why don't you prove he can move that fast consistently?

Ganondorf already his own feat to match this, when he killed the Sage (though not consistent, either). Does Kain have defenses for a touch that makes people disintegrate?



It's got a lot of featless spells. One thing I found interesting, though:

bWMaMrIcgyc

2:08 Ganondorf coughs up blood. Only problem? It's green.

xD Good job finding the green blood part, does it count?

And the disintegrating thing was on the sages who look more spirit then physical form

Originally posted by Burning thought
Then their bias and ignorant. He gained more strength, we just know its not much because its not even taken away his weakness to sunlight, hes not as strong as he was against belial. We dont know how the "absorbtion" works either so its not a feat and if your trying to use midnight bliss then your beginning to argue, well done.

I can't argue wit some one who is so ignorant about the facts. He was stronger than he was when he fought Belial. The game even says it.


Having taken control of the shadow world of the human realm. Demitri returns to Makai stronger than ever...

We do know how his absorption works, the same way Jedah's does. He enters his true form and steals your power.

You are clearly ignorant of every game in this thread. Even Lok.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Since he can be disintegrated without his shield against sunlights rays.
Show me where it says this. He can with stand a million degrees but is disintegrated by sun light. You sound like a true troll.


Originally posted by Burning thought
Show me this When has demitri survived those temperatures? let me guess, in the presence of belial before he was weakened?

Yup and he's even stronger now. You fail.


Originally posted by Burning thought
No, thats my opposition. I am using evidence, and my own knowledge of the games I have played. Darkstalkers and LoZ are the only ones, 2 characters, Darkstalkers being pretty amigious leaving only 1 character I do not know everything on, Ganondorf.

You don't know anything about DS or any game in this thread. Your failing...miserably.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Time for a little exercise/experiment. Any of those been used outside of gameplay?



"They need only fear those that impale or enflame."

Point of that video?



That looks like game mechanics. Has he ever done that in a cutscene?



Looks like it was only in regard to pushing and lifting things. If he could hit that hard, those little enemies would have been instantly destroyed. Game mechanics.



That's supposed to be a reaction? Raziel took a while to stand up, and longer for Kain to even notice. Then Kain made a short dash. Why don't you prove he can move that fast consistently?

Ganondorf already his own feat to match this, when he killed the Sage (though not consistent, either). Does Kain have defenses for a touch that makes people disintegrate?



It's got a lot of featless spells. One thing I found interesting, though:

bWMaMrIcgyc

2:08 Ganondorf coughs up blood. Only problem? It's green.

Cant remember, I think Vorador uses flay in a cutscene. The spells are scripted and each one tells you exactly what they do, Kain tells us as well hence the canon so trying to pull the "gameplay mechanics" rub on me is not going to work.

The video proves that Kains flesh is just going to close even if you do manage to wound it.

Its a scripted ability, not a mechanic.


Heres where your wrong, Raziel does not punch, he slices. his PSI is incredible at his blade points, but his blunt force and shock is less so.

No thats not the reaction, its speed. 0.18 or less to be exact. Ganons not done quicker. Why wouldnt he be able to do that consistently? makes no sense. Thats like saying Dante cannot run consistently just because he does it for a few seconds or minutes in a cutscene. Pointless.

Can you prove its a touch that makes people disintegrate and that it was not just an effect of the sages death? the sages were not flesh and blood afterall.

Featless, but with solid canon behind them unlike most abilities solely based around a mechanic.

So? if its not poisonous then its irrelevant and Kains body is not the same as it was in Blood omen.

1JxvJ8sNzXY

4:40

Just to make sure I'm getting the point across correctly, his blood is still green when Link stabs him. Because I know someone will say it, it wasn't vomit.

Originally posted by No End N Site
I can't argue wit some one who is so ignorant about the facts. He was stronger than he was when he fought Belial. The game even says it.



We do know how his absorption works, the same way Jedah's does. He enters his true form and steals your power.

You are clearly ignorant of every game in this thread. Even Lok.


Show me where it says this. He can with stand a million degrees but is disintegrated by sun light. You sound like a true troll.




Yup and he's even stronger now. You fail.




You don't know anything about DS or any game in this thread. Your failing...miserably.

Where is this said?

He turns into a demon and drinks their blood by the sounds of it.

yeah, daft silly little bait. I know more about any of these games than you apart from maybe DS in which I match you.

It says in his storyline he makes shields otherwise he will be disintegrated from the inside.

By the way your acting the only game youve played is DS and your to question my knowledge, someone whos played DMC, GOW and Bayonetta and LoK to completion? DS which has little to no cutscenes anyway.

Originally posted by The Scenario
1JxvJ8sNzXY

4:40

Just to make sure I'm getting the point across correctly, his blood is still green when Link stabs him. Because I know someone will say it, it wasn't vomit.

And just to make sure I am getting my point across, was it poisonous blood?

I doubt Kain has control over green alien blood.

If its blood then why not? its just TK on a liquid base level.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Cant remember, I think Vorador uses flay in a cutscene. The spells are scripted and each one tells you exactly what they do, Kain tells us as well hence the canon so trying to pull the "gameplay mechanics" rub on me is not going to work.



That doesn't change anything, now does it?



Unless he's stabbed or set on fire? Easy to do.



Ganondorf has a scripted ability to block and dodge arrows.



Then there's no need to use the staff. He could have torn them apart on his own.



It took a solid 2 seconds for him to realize Raziel had stood up. Kinda pathetic.

And it means pretty much everything. Can you prove he can move this fast all the time, and not only in short bursts? Can he keep it up consistently?



He killed him with a touch. Maybe death caused the disintegration, maybe disintegration caused death. Kain still has no defense from a death touch.
We're assuming they aren't flesh and blood. If they're spiritual, Ganondorf has just shown the ability to rip Kain's spirit to pieces.

Solid canon? It has a short description that says how the mechanics work.


You never know, but I think I'll just let that one go. Was a fun thing to point out.


Can he do it on anything other than blood? Ganondorf can survive without a body, anyway, so what's blod to him?

Originally posted by The Scenario
That doesn't change anything, now does it?



Unless he's stabbed or set on fire? Easy to do.



Ganondorf has a scripted ability to block and dodge arrows.



Then there's no need to use the staff. He could have torn them apart on his own.



It took a solid 2 seconds for him to realize Raziel had stood up. Kinda pathetic.

And it means pretty much everything. Can you prove he can move this fast all the time, and not only in short bursts? Can he keep it up consistently?



He killed him with a touch. Maybe death caused the disintegration, maybe disintegration caused death. Kain still has no defense from a death touch.
We're assuming they aren't flesh and blood. If they're spiritual, Ganondorf has just shown the ability to rip Kain's spirit to pieces.

Solid canon? It has a short description that says how the mechanics work.


You never know, but I think I'll just let that one go. Was a fun thing to point out.


Can he do it on anything other than blood? Ganondorf can survive without a body, anyway, so what's blod to him?

It proves their canon powers and outlines what they can do canonically.


Imapled or disintegrated through flames. And no, no easy to do because hes too fast and durable.

No, thats called a balance mechanic becaue its part of how his boss fight works. If you want to use that gameplay then links attacks are predictable and so is his aim with the bow.

No because they heal fast and their not necesserily as weak as your assuming, their still vampires you know....

Not sure, hes going to be using it in short bursts because his teleport will cut out the actual movement, leaving him the 0.18 second attack to destroy Ganons inadequate reaction time.

Or sages just happen to diel ike that because their not flesh and blood. Can you prove he can "death touch" flesh and blood entities in the same way? and no, he shown he can rip a shade thats floating unfettered. We dont know what they are tbh, their not flesh and blood and how they die (puff of smoke) is irrelevant. Not a feat.

No it says what the ability does, you dont seem to understand what a mechanic is and in your desperation to try and use my own tactics against me, and my own words your ignoring the differences. Kain outlines what the power does in canon, the actual abilities use is also stated. The mechanic in gameplay would be a percentage of damage an enemy can take.

Kain takes the attributes of those blood he drinks, so if Kain drinks it he will at least gain Ganons mental and physical abilities, inferior I know but still. Ganon could still end up as a corpse/Ko on the ground. It counts as a defeat.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Where is this said?

He turns into a demon and drinks their blood by the sounds of it.

yeah, daft silly little bait. I know more about any of these games than you apart from maybe DS in which I match you.

It says in his storyline he makes shields otherwise he will be disintegrated from the inside.

By the way your acting the only game youve played is DS and your to question my knowledge, someone whos played DMC, GOW and Bayonetta and LoK to completion? DS which has little to no cutscenes anyway.




His DS2 Ending.

Show me this.

I disagree wit that and so does everyone else.

Show me this as well.

I question your knowledge because many can vouch for me when I say you are clearly lacking. Ganondorf wit out Kratos will tear Kain to shreds.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It proves their canon powers and outlines what they can do canonically.



It gives a small description of what Kain does with it. These spells still have nothing in the way of feats.



A weakness is a weakness, don't deny it can be utilized.



There is no functional difference. Raziel pushes blocks, and Ganondorf can block. If they weren't able to do this, they wouldn't do it.



"Healing fast" has nothing to with it when your opponent should be able to tear you in half.



To which Ganondorf will responding blocking, using his own teleportation, and attacking where Kain can't react, much faster than Raziel's 'standing up' speed, which is apparently too fast for Kain.



Now you're creating your own fanon. You don't know enough to say. The Sages have often been creatures of any race. The fact is that Ganondorf could kill with a touch, and the target doesn't matter much.



Ad hominum is useless here. Kain say what he does with them in a vague manner rife with no-limit-fallacies and psuedo peotic language that could mean anything.




You have yet to prove he could drink the blood and take attributes of a being superior to him.

Have a nice night, I'm going to bed.